How to Use a Line Mixer With Your Rack feat. Synergy, Eventide, Lexicon, Samson
Vložit
- čas přidán 18. 01. 2022
- ⪢ SAMSON SM10 - imp.i114863.ne... (Affiliate Link)
♫ Become a Patron - / leontodd
♫ My music - ragdollrock.ba...
♫ Sweetwater Affiliate - imp.i114863.ne...
♫ Thomann Affiliate - thmn.to/thocf/...
Gear I use to make my videos
⪢ Interface - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Monitors - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Vocal Mic - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Headphones - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Picks - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Strings - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ PRS Custom 24 - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Izotope RX - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Fabfilter - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ BOSS SD-1 - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Synergy SYN2 - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Eventide H9 - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Midi Controller - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢ Rack Mixer - imp.i114863.ne...
⪢Cherub Flow Tune Clip - bit.ly/3QkxO9B
⪢ I use footswitch toppers from thehomemusicia.... Enter the code "Leon2022" to get 20% off your order there.
The links above are affiliate links. Should you click the link and purchase an item I earn a small commission, at no extra cost to you.
I am a Fractal Audio beta tester. Pronounced bee-tah.
Feeling social?
⪢ Follow me on Instagram- / leon_ragdoll
⪢ Join my Discord - / discord | Invite Code - knnMWCsPrS
⪢ My Cab IR's (Free)
tinyurl.com/36...
At times gear highlighted on this channel will be provided by the manufacturer, purchased at a discount or be made available to me on loan. In these cases you will see the "contains paid promotion" icon. - Hudba
I was thinking about making a “parallel mixing basics” video but I’m glad you did first! Now I can focus on my specialty: pedals nobody wants.
As if this released you from that task :) We need alternative lecturers for each to find their own style of teacher ;)
I wanna see ur mixing techniques Clifton Wright lol
There's def info out there for parallel mixing. I'm using an ASHLY LX308b to send 3 (sometimes 4) channels to stereo then wherever, right now into the desk. No need for special cables, just balanced where you can. If you're into the 80s style parallel there's lots of great info out there...been experimenting with 80s racks for a while now and have achieved great results! Helps if you have a stereo preamp like the SYN-2, AXE 3, etc.
Thanks for this Leon!
Hey @leon and co, I'm new to the rack style of things and I have the opportunity to purchase a Randall stereo power amp and Roland M12E mixer already rackmounted in an SKB. Now can I use this mixer for my pedals on a shelf? Eventide micropitch/ tricerachorus and big sky and such? Please help!!
Nice , Leon. Another way to describe using a mixer in a guitar rig, is really a sequence of parallel effects loops.
In the early stages you end up with a MIDI preamp that receives program changes from a MIDI foot switch. You want effects so you send the preamp into the effects, and then send that into an amp.
Drawbacks are that raw natural guitar preamp sound. The Axe will allow you to send a much nicer version with cab emulation into the effects, a nicer warmer result, especially on the delays and reverbs. The Axe has pretty good delays and reverbs in it, begs the question why not just use them.
The rack gear, has more of a studio routing to it. You mic up the amplifier with a couple SM57s, and those sounds are used to send into all of the studio gear, via patch bay and mixer, you can control the mix via fader and the send level too. Because you find some gear likes +4 or -11, and when it comes to Eventide some patches are one or the other.
And as you add more gear, you overflow on available ports. There’s a few options. You can get another pair of interfaces, and utilize the high channel count like a big mixer. 24-48 channels, could do the whole band. But just having 5 or so devices gobbles up 10 channels. I think you would see those extra 10/20 channels as extremely useful.
Multing. This really helps cut down your channels outs. You want to send to all of these devices the same raw dry signal, a device like a patch bay which can normal and mult out to everybody is nice. A pair of outputs, to 10 inputs.
The programmable Switchblade GL solves some of those problems and becomes the Bradshaw hub you always wanted. You’ll have to program your own patches, but that’s nice to know you can set up all your own signal flows. If you don’t have a PC in the mix, and you want something programmable, they solve a lot of problems. For example, changing the two patches on an Eclipse, pull up patch 2 on side A and patch 36 on side B. At the same time they relay switch amps, so the Mesa goes from channel 1 clean to 2 dirty. Or, Modern mode to Standard. And the preamps are changed at that same time. For channel switching, for multing, for programming, they’re very nice.
That’s also how you can send effects into effects. For example you want your guitar to go through a preamp, then an Eventide patch, then an amp, then the microphones catch the speaker out and send that through a second Eclipse patch. You would have pre and post all in one complex route, including the speaker sounds.
But FYI, the best you can sound is dry, so you always want to record those. My dry lines all come into the PC for capture, 8 mics on various speakers. They send out from there to a GL, which mults it out to effects. I determine from there if I want the dry or not in the DAW. Usually Yes. No matter, I like the dry sound to reinforce the mix sound, effects processors are for effects, in other words.
Getting a final mix, that requires getting all of the various lines mixed into one great guitar track. Normally that’s comprised of a dry left and right plus a pair from every effect device in use. Some of those are mixed low, don’t need much for Reverb, but want to hear Delays, turn those up. Adding Micropitch? We might be able to kill the dry, test and see if you like that much. No? Mix in some of the dry lines.
Send them all into a limiter. That’ll make sure if you press record, you’ll be able to record the file without clips. Plus you can monitor overall mix levels. This way you can mix with a stereo guitar file, and not have to deal with the 10 tracks it took to create it. But if you ever needed, you have all 10 tracks.
Best wishes to everybody there in Perth 🇦🇺, and to everybody everywhere still jamming their racks! 💪
It's pretty cool that you can turn back time to see how they got big, lush sounds. My "rig" in the 80's was my dad's '65 Gibson ES-335 -> an EH Mini Muff Fuzz -> EH Small Stone phase shifter -> EH Small Clone chorus -> Boss Analog delay -> Roland JC-120. That was what I could afford at the time.
Curious to see what's inside that fat 2U chorus unit. 🤔
I remember fond moments of setting up racks, and the overwhelming urge at times to stand up, cover my ears and scream like a little girl, clicking my heels together and saying, "take me home, take me home." Old school rack setups are why so many just went straight into amps using pedals. Cool video though Leon. I'm going to hug my FM3 now.
Interesting setup. My rig is follows: Crybaby->Dynacomp->OD-2->Rat->TC Nether->Behri DD400 (long delay)->Boss GX-700 (preamp, detune, noise surpressor, slapback delay)->Lexicon MPX-100 (chorus, reverb)
It sounds pretty damn awesome!
I bet! I just bought a GC-700 on eBay funnily enough, looking forward to trying it out.
Shoutouts to this specific line mixer. Saw your SM10 in earlier videos when trying to figure out this stuff and it was by far the most affordable and flexible unit that is readily available. Even more luckily there was a local listing for very acceptable price further cementing the decision. It was not a bad decision. Very understandable unit and interface. The only problem is deciding the chain without having two parallel lines after each other.
And people, don't forget the cables. You easily throw in like 100 euros or equivalent in other currencies to connect let's say 6 units. You can get by without the Y-cable between mono and stereo, but you'd like to have two of them.
For what I have in my rack is Lee Jackson GP-1000 as preamp. It has two outputs which makes it rather convenient (or inconvenient if you wish?), one has more distortion and bass which makes things a bit odd. Then there's Boss SE-50, Yamaha SPX90, Rocktron Intellifex-XL, Roland SDE-2000 and Lexicon MPX.1. The limits of the system end up having a dry from preamp to the mixer, while in parallel there's also a line with SPX90 and SE-50 for chorus or similar (but only one unit used at a time). Those signals both go into SDE-2000 and MPX-1 that are parallel, MPX-1 giving PCM60 sound and SDE-2000 that soft delay. The Intellifex isn't connected when there's already two chorus units.
Where in that chain do you connect a cab sim (in my case Torpedo Live), after the preamp I imagine given mono routing then to stereo fx after? I have quite a few preamps which I'd like to connect to my SM10 taking up most IN's; guess that's where my patchbay will come in handy. For the series connections like chorus, detune etc from my MPX-1 and SPX90, does this have to be connected after the preamps in the SM10 (does it flow from Channel 1 - 8?) and then my parallel reverbs from my PCM80 connected after the series fx? Also wondering whether the MON out is best for series like the modulation fx and the EFX out for the parallel fx.
Entered the midi rabbit hole briefly in the 90s
crawled out and stayed relatively simple for the next decade.
Enter the 20teens and strymon midi stuff sucked me right back in.
So.... Jmp1 - (which I had kept using from new). add Boss GX700 in the effects loop
stereo to Lexicon Vortex and Line6 Filter Pro (3 x Parallel mix with JMP using 2 VoodooLab Switchers)
To Timeline and BigSky
and SansAmp PSA1(not in the rack yet)
The Parallel switching works but looks crazy and they require the VoodooLab Commander to switch presets. Cant get them to play nicely with the Boss ES8 or an MorningStar MC8
MorningStar has just released a Stereo Loop Switcher ML10X which looks really good. Has a simplified version of what a SwitchBlade does (routing options)at a fraction of the cost.
This may be my solution but I'm not sure about whether I'll still need a line mixer??? A Midi controlled line mixer would be the go but they don't exist without selling the kids.
add to this also that I'm splitting the final stereo mix to 2 amps and a Boss RC505 Loopers stereo ins that sends to the main ins of a JC120 and the mixing desk
🙄what am I doing....
I have to become a much better player to do this but now I have this video which is awesome learning.
I'm glad I watched this video it answered all my questions but it also enlightened me to the fact that I'm looking for just 1 type of a guitar processor rack mount type for all distortion and effects that will also allow me to use headphones, 99% of the time I use headphones.
Thanks Leon!
You rock bro!
💯🎸🤘
that guitar at the end sounded wonderful
I just went cheep old school. Running 3M audio delta 1010s into an old Pentium four Windows XP system. Using three deltas as a mixer and audio interface for my six rackmount FX units.
Going straight in to Cubase. With a switch of two cables I can go from direct out into Cabinets, two silent recording in bedroom.
List of components, SDE 3000, Yamaha, SPX 90, Yamaha rev, 100, TC D2, DOD 866, lexicon, MPX won, two jp2c, one duel, rectifier. (WDW)or (WD). Two 4x12 cabs “stereo 4ohm each”. 👀👀👀👀👀. What I have learned has taken 40 years.
Currently doing a 20 Watt plexi effects loop out into a similar set up , and back into the tube power sections tapped into a pair of JBL-E120’s housed in a Hard Road Truckers cab, sound and mammoth dude ! Thanks for the inspiration and tips , now a need another head to make it stereo !! 🤟
Wish I had known this years ago. It would have really enhanced things and made life easier.
Nice explanation Leon! One other tip that’s worth mentioning is that there is a summed pre fader monitor out with a level control on the front panel of the SM10 as well. If you have a third fx unit you would like to run in parallel, this is perfect, especially if you have an older unit like the SPX90 with a mono input.
I love the flexibility of the SM10. My only gripe is that I wish the fx out was pre fader as well so that I could run a true WDW system with 100% wet in my wet cabs.
thanks for the heads up with that, I'm re-reading the manual now and that seems perfect for something like an SPX!
My late 90s W/D/W setup was my MKIII into the matching 4x12 out to a Rane SM26B with the Digitech/IVL DHP-55 and Rocktron Replifex feeding the Carvin DCM-150 then out to a couple 2x12s.
Glorious but back breaking.
A rig to level small city blocks
How crazy is this the timing of this post? I just acquired a 16RU touring case to house my Eleven Rack, JMP-1, VG-99, Yamaha STAGEPAS 500 Portable PA System, & finally EL84 20/20 which I'll be on the look out for a pair of matching 1x12 speakers as soon as the misses isn't looking 🤣. So at this very moment I'm trying to patch my entire rig together using a Behringer Eurorack Pro RX1602 with a lot of head scratching, & I haven't even considered my MIDI run yet!
You never have enough long patch cables do you?😄😄😄
Hi Leon!
You're getting into some pretty heady stuff there. I used to mix that way using my SM-26 Rane mixers, but I found the final mix to be "over-processed," so now I use the Ranes to mix in 3 or 4 preamps, into a stereo signal then I daisy-chain my stereo effects processors, and run the 2 channel mix down of the preamps through those. There is also a dry preamp signal that runs parallel to the effects path. This way I can have the dry guitar (from the preamps), mixed with whatever effects I choose to use with it, and I dial the effect more in the background.
I get a more satisfying "effected" tone when I pre-program the effects to what ever mix percentage I like for a particular song, then just add or remove it from the stereo signal path as needed. From there, I split the stereo signal for both channels into another SM-26, and they feed the power amps and cabinets, which usually ends up being two dry cabs (no effects) in the center, and two each (left and right), stereo effects, on either side of those.
Since you know already that I use ADA preamps and power amps as well as split-stack cabs, it's pretty easy for me to do that. I've never seen one of those Samson mixers before. It looks like an updated version of the Rane SM-28 Line Mixer. Once in a while I see those come up on evil-bay. but I'm leery about buying anything there anymore.
Good video though!
Yeah I initially looked for a Rane bit the SM10 was too good to pass up
@@LeonTodd If it gets the job done, then it's good. The Rane stuff is getting harder to find lately, but if you do find it, snag it up! Rane gear is tough enough to go play Rugby with it.
Thank you very much man, exactly what I was wondering about! Really loving the channel, and damn those rack tones are incredible. Definitely getting one of these for my rack stuff. I think a good idea for us new guys would be to a diagram for the connections.
Great video, it was interesting seeing how you pull off the routing of your multiple rack effects. Question regarding routing and how it fundamentally differs from mine. I still have my rack from the mid 90's and in it I have my signal chain as follows, guitar -> Nady RW-1 VHF wireless -> Dunlop DCR-1SR -> dbx 1066 compressor -> Mesa/Boogie High Gain Amp Switcher (switcher has a Mesa/Boogie Triaxis and Single Rectifier Solo 50 connected) -> tc electronic G-Force -> Eventide H3000 D/SX -> BBE 462 -> Mesa/Boogie Simul Class Stereo 2:90 -> 2 Mesa/Boogie 4x12 OS Rectifier cabs with a 1x12 3/4 back being used for the Solo 50 to pull off a wet dry wet setup. I have a Rocktron Patchmate in which I have the 2 channels of the dbx 1066 in 2 separate loops so I can have 2 distinct compressor setups and the G-Force, H3000 and BBE are also in loops of the Patchmate. I also have a Digital Music Corp. (now Voodoo Labs) GCX audio switcher for all of my relay switching such as controlling the modes on the Mesa 2:90, toggling loops on the Mesa amp switcher, channel switching on the Solo 50, etc. and the companion Ground Control midi controller which at that time had a companion midi 8 switch expander which I used to communicate to the GCX to control the relays. So in my setup everything is run in series with the G-Force, H3000 and BBE running in stereo thinks to the Patchmate's loops all being stereo. Is using the line mixer in your setup the way of running the gear in parallel vs in series like my old rack?
Correct, you can mix fx in parallel this way, AND maintain your analog dry through
Love to see a pic of that ?!!?
Leon you are the BEST, absolutly
I am going to use my Germino plexi, through load box. Need a mixer for dry signal pan-center, then have Yamaha Magicstomp Mk II, Alesis Midiverb II, ART Multiverb parallel [separate channels] in the mixer then out to stereo power amp 2-(2x12) cabinets.
But, put a volume pedal with each to act as a fader for each effects unit, a la Steve Morse and Allan Holdsworth.
Hopefully this will allow dry signal to be untouched, not sure but may have to have it's own cabinet, but fade in everything else stereo set up.
Running direct in then stereo out of the Magicstomp should be enough, which eliminates the need for a 'mixer' as far as controlling effects goes.
I hope someone resurrects the 8 parallel digital delay with modulation design of Yamaha UD Stomp. This is the most natural sounding 3-D sound, beyond Lexicon or Eventide offerings.
Roland GP-100 with a Roland SDE2000 and Yamaha SPX990 in the effects loop running in parallel mode. On the lookout for an analog preamp and line mixer to go analog dry through.
Great video Leon, brings me back to the days of the big racks, Bradshaw switching and the Rane SM 26 splitter mixer. I was running 3 different preamps into the Rocktron Rack Interface into the Uptown Technologies splitter, paralleled into 2 intellifex's, 2 intelliverbs and a H3000 into a Rocktron 612 mixer then to a stereo tube power amp into two 4X12's. I was using the patch mate for switching and the All Access for midi control. Moving this rack was not fun and troubleshooting ground loops was a headache, Great sounds but it was a pain!!! I have been using Fractal to replace this setup when the Ultra was introduced. Life is better LOL!!!
That's so awesome. I love this setup but the power, flexibility and lack of noise on the Fractal makes it a no brainer
I have a Rane SM 26. I am trying to put it to work with 3 preamps
@@LeonTodd Very cool, I use a Mesa Boogie DC 5, a stock ADA, an ADA with a Boogie Recto Mod and an ADA MP2, and a Mesa Boogie 50/50 power amp, I use the Mesa Clone IR and for the ADA pre amps I use the ADA cab simulator. Of course, I do not use this for overseas touring but, for North American touring it is ok!
This video has inspired me to try parallel effects processing but using an Adastra LS26 line splitter and a line mixer. I can finally try my 2x Intellifex on 8 voice chorus (16 voice chorus), tc electronics G major, mpx1 and perhaps some Peavey Profex for good measure… 🤔
Didn't know you have a SM10. Just added one myself to my home studio. Not for effects, but to manage the various devices (III, FM3, FM9, etc.).
I use the spare channels on this to do a similar thing with the FM9 and my synths.
Hello Leon and everyone. I'd like to suggest a different mixer that is currently comparable in price to the Samson but much easier for newbies (like me) and sonically superior in my opinion- the very overlooked RANE SM82S. I run a lexicon PCM 80 with it in a simple stereo live rig. Like the Samson but UNLIKE the older popular RANE's that are constantly talked about this one has an effect loop the Lexicon just loves. I have the Samson too in another system but it is comparatively very fiddly to use being cluttered up with lights, headphone monitor outputs, buttons, tiny wobbly pea-sized knobs etc. The Rane was recently discontinued but can be found for a couple hundred dollars. It has nice quality knobs including the output that I can easily grab and control my entire volume level and very well. One note from the manual however the outputs are balanced TRS- just use TRS cables even into your unbalanced amp returns (manual explains why). Re your set up I occasionally read the suggestion to run the returns from the processor not into the effects loop return but back into two of the channel inputs? Do you have any thoughts on that? It is said to allow more flexibility in routing etc. And everyone GET A PCM 80! you will be selling your time based pedals the next day I promise! The lush musical quality of sound is beyond belief when set up like it was designed to run. Mixer is a must.
Also, if you need more than 1 Monitor or Effect send, you come out of the SM-10 sends and split the signal with an SM-26 to six mono or 3 stereo sends, expanding the capability of the SM-10 even further!
Thanks, this sounds like just what I was looking for. However I can’t find any reference to a Samson SM-26 anywhere
@@Emcfree2084 rane sm 26
I'm trying to get a rack going, just hard to find the one's I want, Alessis 31 band eq, ADA mp1 etc. All I have right now is a ART SGE, and a Carvin ac120s power conditioner and a older ART power conditioner as well. Trying to figure out how to get everything running properly. I should explain, I run 3 amps, a Carvin X-50B with 4x12 cab, Peavey Stereo chorus 2x12 and a Marshall JCM800 4010 combo . Those all come off my pedalboard through a Earthquaker Swissthings pedal, it only has 2 outputs so the 3rd amp comes out of the MXR stereo chorus 134. It sounds huge, but I know it's not done right, I need something like the Radial jd7 injector or something, but the prices right now are nuts on them. Looking to simply this setup and I only have the ART SGE running through the Carvin X-50B effects loop. Love the content, Cheers!
Hallo Leon , we need more Videos and explaination of how to wire more units with drawings , thank's a lot Mannnn
This, I'm too much of a visual learner and would be much appreciated!
haha mate so helpful! if only you had have put this about a year ago when I was putting my rig together! :)
Great video. I use 2 other ways to get those sounds. 1 split the signal out of my pedals into multiple preamps/rack gear then into a behringer mixer. or 2 split the signal coming out of my axe/kemper into multiple effects gear (spx1000, eclipse, terc) and run those into the mixer. Both are super flexible, easy to setup and sound amazing. Rock on!
Thanks Leon. I have been collecting some rack gear, and started looking at mixers.I have a Yamaha spx 90 that may benefit most . I do not dig it as much as I thought. Quadra verb and and a delta lab effectron are what I use as well
I've got a delta lab effectron on loan at the moment, fun unit!
Thanks been waiting for a vid like this
Great vid! How do you find the quality of the SM10? I've heard some people have noise / quality issues
thanks sooooooo much for this one. very helpful
Great tone as always Mr.Todd. How do you split the send into multiple channel on the line mixer? Do you use some kind of line splitter?
Chorus into channel 3
Reverb : fx send - channel 5
What about if i would add delay?..
Just use any channel there?..
Thanx
Awesome demo!
Glad you liked it!
Though a bit more pricey, I prefer the Voodoo Lab GCX Audio Switcher
The way I currently have this set up with a Behringer UMC1820
The GCX switches 4CM GSP1101 and MPX-G2 pre FX in series, 4 preamps, mono Intellifex and Korg rack tuner AND Separate post FX from both 1101 and G2
I can use the Balanced outs of both 1101 and MPX G2 to send to the DAW for recording, and/or a mono tap from both unit's jacks to the amp for playing
Not applicable at the moment, but since it's possible, I can 4CM the UMC with the GCX as well
This way I can use Guitar based VST's with my rack and even route it in the DAW, so I can use the FX units as outboard units for my synths as well
Niiiiice!!
@@LeonTodd
Once it was all wired up? Yes, very nice indeed!
Only the headache to get it wired up, programmed and in unity gain, not so nice 🤣
I am in the process of putting together something similar utilizing axe fx 3, 2 Syn 2s, eclipse, H9, SY 1000 and RJM Effects Gizmo. I was using the in and outs of the axe fx 3 but ran out of room so I got the effects gizmo. I want to use some of the effects in parallel so I will have sit down and map this out on paper first.
I think this way the options are pretty limited.
Basically only one lineup is allowed, and effects can only be placed in series.
I run my dry signal from the preamp into a mixer that has 4 aux sends. I hook up 4 multieffects in there.
The mixer's stereo out is the output.
Obviously I will not need 4 effects all the times in the signal chain, so I just make a numb preset on each unit, with turned down levels. Then I just chose this numb preset in every case, I dont't want that effect to sound.
Yes, this way I can not daisy chain effect after each other, but since all of them are multieffects units, there is no need for that. Yet using some parallel will improve the sound.
Hey there Leon. Very informative video.
I have a question for you. I have a WDW setup and want to get an SM 10 to mix my effects units in parallel out to my stereo power amp. But.. could i send dry sound to my wet cabs and control the volume of the dry via the SM10?
Thank you and keep up the good work
Can anyone explain to me which is the correct way to connect the Samson SM10 to a FX Loop of my Marshall? I am asking because it’s mono not stereo like the Fractal. Thanks
Pretty spiffy!! Thanks.
How would you integrate a PCM70, which is MONO input, using the EFX or MON sends? A single TRS cable? And then stereo out, of course, into a channel on the SM10.
Thanks for sharing!
The faces in the last 30 seconds, ha ha.
Do you have any recommendations for books or literature that further explains parallel mixing and wiring for those of us not familiar with racks and mixers. Thanks!
Leon, if i understood correctly, this "parallel sums" all the channel effects in the SM10. Is it safe to say that if i want reverb to precede delay (imem run in series), i would need two line mixers in my effects chain (one for each of the two effects)?
I have a sm-82, I don’t think it has a monitor send but it does have an effects loop. I’m coming out of my line out box for wet effects. I have an eventide eclipse for the pitch shift detune, a lexicon pcm 70 for my EVH Cathedral settings, and 2 Roland SDE-3000’s for the left and right delay. So would I come out of my line out box mono into the PCM 70 then stereo out to channel 1 of the sm-82, then loop send left and right to the eclipse channel 1and 2 inputs then output to the next channel of the sm82, then would I send the main stereo L/R output of the sm82 into each SDE3000’s since they are mono in, mono out? I can then feed the power amp from the SDE’s.
Does this sound right?
Rane SM-82
It has become my hobby to get the most out of the cheap rack processors I collected. I'm fond of my dhp 55 and recently bought an intellifex. Not tap tempo on either devices so I put the vortex on for tap tempo modulated ping ponging weird delays. I'm using a behringer mx882 in half split half mix mode. No room for 3 devices but I take advantage of the analog dry on the intellifex. Still WIP though. Maybe I'll get rid of the vortex and the intellifex in favour of an mpx1. Maybe not, I get fairly good sounds right now
I really want to try a vortex!
@@LeonTodd the great thing about it is that it's a pretty unique design and it doesn't sound bad at all. Bad things are a lot: interface, extensive need of the manual, need to take note of how you made your presets, strange implementation of tap tempo and so on and so forth. Last bit not least, today they cost definitely too much! When I bought it they were definitely throwing them at you.
@@LeonTodd I'd love to see what you think, they're a totally unique unit. Pity no midi.
If you do, try putting a stereo delay in front. like a DD3, where one channel is dry and the other is just delay.
And spend some time with it's morphing (Exp Pedal) this is where it steps way outside the boundary
Leon, are you taking the dry signal into to the mixer? If so, where are you plugging the dry signal in…. I have the same mixer and am incorporating into my rack…. Thanks for the great videos. Very informative. I’m running an H9, G Maj 2, the usual pedals, and the GCX/GCP to control the pedals.
Been building a rack setup for what seems like an eternity, ha ha.
Would love to get your input on how to get the most out of my gear.
How do you handle phase issues or latency running wet/dry/wet?
Do you just go killdry on your effects channels? Do you have latency compensation built into one of these racks to sync up the dry signal?
Yeah you need to killdry your wet effects, the mixer provides the dry through.
Hi Leon and thanks for this video , Im learning about parallel effect mixing for WDW and your video is a great help. Quick question, is it fair to say that your Klark Teknik is in series with the oder effects whille all other effect are in parallels? Just wonder if it is your preference by oppose of using a splitter from your preamp and connect direct to one channel LR of the SM10? This will mean that the Klark unit will use a send from the sm10 and a separate input channel so the chorus will now BE parallel with all other effects... what are you thought and preference?
Correct. The chorus doesn't do 100% wet so you might get some leveling issues running it in parallel.
Thanks for the video Leon. It has given me huge inspiration after battle with pedal switches and a patchbay for years. How do you manage your DI signal and the routing to the Axe FX and your computer plugin FX? As I understand your approach in this video all the outputs are coloured with time based effects before your distortion and any other pedals etc.
Can you do a vid using the Axefx 3 and rack mixer with your rack gear ? How would you wire ?
Can I use distortion pedals and other rack stuff into mixer then use effects loops and inputs
I have a helix rack and want to use a Behringer rack mixer to insert multiple rack gear
Perhaps look at midi control ? 😎
Can you mute/unmute with a simple on off foot switch (non midi) from the pedalboard for live shows so delays, pitch etc be adjusted for the venue or is this more geared to studio?
The mixer doesn't have external control, however you could set the efefcts unit to mute their output in that case.
Great rig and video @Leon Todd! Are there standard approaches to how rack components are connected and signal is routed or is it mostly determined through experimentation that leads to the sonic signature you are looking for?
Hey Leon, I have been working on updating my studio and the big project I have now is I want to be able to plug my guitar into one rack piece and then be able to have it output to different amps and modelers so I can just switch without unplugging anything. Will the line mixer do that? I am also working on building an amp rig. What can I use to have the channels on the amp change when I change rigs/ patches etc. on a modeler running into it or if I use pedals?
A dedicated signal distributor would be best for that - Lehle and Radial are probably the best options there.
Can you control it remotely with a multi channel loop pedal switcher (non midi)?
I'm building a similar setup which db settings are you using? 4db or -10 which of the settings belongs where
Let me see if I’m understanding this correctly. Muting Channel 3 mutes its output only and since the monitor send is still working, does it mean that you’re running Channels 3 and 4 in parallel? Then those are summed and all goes through Channel 5?
Great video and always..! I am using either my CAE 3+SE or my BOGNER Fish preamp. For effects I am using a Yamaha SPX 90 and a Roldand SDE 3000.. As far a s power I am currently using a mesa Boogie 50/50 although I have a Mesa Boogie 2:90 but the standby switch has a short. If I wanted to mix the Roland and the Yamaha what would be your advice. I am currently running out from preamp into the Roland into the Yamaha into a power amp.
Both those units add a lot of colour, for better or worse, even when bypassed so the SM10 aux sends would work nicely if you want to reserve your dry tone.
@@LeonTodd Or would a better option use a AXE FX II as my effects processor and stop using the SDE 3000 and SPX 90?
How do these compare with the fx built into the AxeFX?
I just picked up a SM10 the other day, and I too also have a Yamaha SPX90, the same as you do, but I see the Yamaha has only 1 input and I believe its mono, but has 2 outputs in stereo. How is yours run thru with your SM10 mixer? Im trying to use it for a wet dry wet setup? Its hard when it has only 1 mono input.
You can use the front panel "mon out" for mono sends
Just curious would this mixer work for let’s say creating or blending parallel guitar pedals, such as stereo reverb and EVH 3000? I just wasn’t sure the unit would work with guitar impedance going into line level inputs on this Sampson SM-10
The biggest problem I had was getting a slight hum or buzz due to grounding issues. I had a “Juice Goose” (like a Furman) with ground lifts for every outlet and there would still be issues. We would have to isolate certain units using isolation washers, which was a set of plastic non-conductive washers with a sleeve protruding from them that would complely isolate the rack ear on the unit from the screw and the rack itself. Total pain in the ass.
You’ve got a great sounding setup there. No gate? Just curious.
Oh man the rubber washers! I did the same with my old rack, so annoying to install them. This rig is pretty quiet, but if swap something like the SPX90 in it HUMS.
At least U did it
Thx a lot!!!!!
Are you using TS or TRS cables for the OUTS from the effects units (to the SM10)?
TRS
So, Eventide and Lexicon are processing in parallel? You go Preamp--> Dimension and then you mix detune and reverb, but you don't send detune into the reverb?
Leon I have a question, your rig in the videos is a wet dry wet? Or a stereo rig with a blend of dry and wet
Great instructional video... as always!
I know you are a power ADA MP-1 user/enthusiast (yeah... and because of that and your videos... now i'm the owner of an ADA MP-1). BUT i haven't a power amp (well... i can use my AxeFx II... but you know...). So now i ended with a Audient Sono guitar interface... AND a Two Note CAB-M+. ... and I'd love to see you messing up with ad ADA + Sono and an ADA + CAB-M+... can i hope in next videos about that? Tnx Man!
A buddy has a CAB M for that very reason and loves it.
@@LeonTodd wwwoooaahh the Master in person answered me???!!!
Tnx so much Man... so... good to know that the "mix" works!
I've been looking for a video like this for a long time. Is it possible to use a line mixer like this as a preamp controller? As in to set up multiple preamps into a power amp and be able to switch between them? I have a couple of rack preamps that I like but I hate having to switch cables around and unplug them all time. I don't necessarily need stereo, I'm fine with a mono signal. Currently looking at the el cheapo Behringer line mixer cause it's only like $100. It would also be nice to have something like this for expansion in the future.
If you just want to manage inputs manually without recabling it's great.
This was great to see explained so easily! Can't wait to add the Dimension clone to my rack rig.
Do you just turn every effect off/on with the SM10 by hand most of the time or do you run a switching system too?
This lives in the studio so I just do it by hand
@@LeonTodd you need an original Rocktron/Bradshaw patchmate to switch is all!
Hello Leon congrats, what a great vid ! Can I ask You how to use Samson SM-10 "19 rack mixer ? My Signal Path is : GTR --- TO ---
1) BOSS NS-50 (Noise Suppressor) ---
2) MARSHALL JMP-1 (MIDI Tube Preamp ) --- send JMP-1
3)TC ELECTRONIC G-MAJOR 2 (MULTI EFX) [ EQ+COMP+WHA+PITCH+MOD]
4) ALESIS QUADRAVERB PLUS (MULTI EFX) [DLY+REV] --- return JMP-1
5) ARX DDP-1 Dual Dynamics Processor (Compressor/Limiter/Gate/Expander)
6) POWER AMP + CABS
MIDI Controller IK Multimedia iRig Stomp I/O
I'ld like to use a rack mixer like Yours, do You have some tips & treacks to give me ? How to connect those racks in the best way ? Thank You a thousand and I hope to read You soon !
Lots of possibilities! You could follow the setup I've used here and replace the PCM and Eclipse with the G Major and Quadraverb for delay/verb/pitch/mod. Up to you how you use the Noise Suppressor and dynamics units.
@@LeonTodd Thank you a thousand Leon ! I'm really into those gears ! NS-50 Noise gate got a guitar dedicated input and output, so I use it ahead JMP-1 and as last rack in the chain before power amp ! You're rad!
I use an eclipse and a pcm 81 also. I run out of my pedalboard stereo, through the pcm81 and then the eclipse straight out to two vintage fender amps. My problem that I have is I get more noise than I am happy with. I’m wandering if this could be the answer to my noise problem. How would I hook this up to my amps with my racks? I’m not sure if using these balanced ins and outs and hooking them to my line level inputs of my fenders is causing the noise or not, but I just wish I could have my sound with absolutely no noise.
Possibly - running the PCM/Eclipse at line level but still running them to the front of Fender amps that are designed for instrument level isn't super ideal so the mixer may help balance the levels. IMO a dedicated switcher/looper like a Gigrig/RJM/CAE might be a better solution though.
Ok. Yea. I’ve been thinking about going that route also. Although there is somewhat of a mixer inside the Eventide and lexicon, it still seems impossible to get a quiet signal. Thanks for the time.
@@brighton09100 yeah the difference is both those units will convert your dry signal and then do the mixing in the digital domain, as opposed to this approach where the dry signal doesn't get run through any A/D stages. You could also run the Eventide and Lex together using their digital ins and outs, which will cut down another potential source of noise.
Here's a question... if you didn't have the chorus, could the preamp mono into the SM10 still come out in stereo (with the parallel stereo effects)?
Yep
@@LeonTodd Oh, sweet! I wasn't sure if I'd need an isolated stereo splitter like a GigRig Humdinger or something.
Thank you so much for all your kind and helpful replies!
I've got that MPX-1 I wanna run in mono through my SLO-30 fx-loop, but I'd like a rack unit to pass my amp fx-loop dry signal through so I can blend in the wet signal of the MPX... this Samson seems like overkill, but I assume it would work still work well for what I want to do?
Suhr minimix or Lehle parallel might work better for your use case
@LeonTodd Sure. I'm familiar with those simpler small form factor units and others like them, but I was hoping for something that could be mounted in my rack. It seems like this might be one of the "cheaper" options out there, as far as rack mount stuff goes.
Oh in that case the SM10 is the way to go. Nothing else really like it at the price point and it's got some nifty I/O options if you ever want to expand on it. @@TechMetalRules
@@LeonTodd Yeah, thanks! I was also looking at the MLC rack mixer, but that's about twice the price and I'm not sure if it would be that much better for what I need.
So when doing these none of the effects go into another and they all are run independently and then layered together then?
Hi Leon, very helpful. Any advice on mixers which can be controlled via midi? How would you use such a rack remotely?
The Red Seven mixer might be the most affordable one. Does midi, patching and mixing
@@LeonTodd, Hi Leon, thanks for the response. The Red Seven has only unbalanced connections, but otherwise seems to be doing what’s needed. Not sure if the choice of unbalanced connections would impair on the sound of the line level units with balanced connections, Eg the ecplise. Any other suggestions? I was thinking of paring an RJM Mastermind with a Behringer X32 and control the latter via midi, but have not got to testing this.
Hey Leon, I've got a question (might be a tad stupid), but how would you go about connecting something like the SPX90 here? Asking because the SPX90 only has one input, and not two like the PCM81. Wondering if I should get this unit, or use a switching system. Thanks for the extremely helpful videos you've been uploading lately!
In that case it'll still sound decent, the SPX90 will still output stereo fx that sound nice and wide
That really sounds awesome. Is that also connected to Axe FX III?
Yeah the Axe is supplying power amp emulation and cab sims
Is there any benefit using this vs setting up the mix in the rack units to xx%? I'm guessing like with pedals, too many in the signal chain will color your tone?
The whole point is to maintain analog dry through, rather than deal with several stages of A/D and D/A conversion
I've a Rack built with all pedals for drive and and Axe FX Ultra for mods, delays and reverbs (I don't use amp simulation, I use my DR103). I just wanna change the Axe with Lexicon MPX 1, D Two Digital Delay and Samson sm10. Is it a good idea? You think I can improve my sound changing the Axe Ultra or it's a useless way to get mad with cable management ?
Personally I'd take the ultra over either of those units but your mileage may vary.
@@LeonTodd I think my Ultra will stay in my rack for long long time. Thx!
Man, this was kinda confusing 😅. When you went out of the stereo chorus you lost me 😅😂. But that sound was dreamy and lush.
This works fine as long as the bypassed analog dry path doesn't color the tone...
Ah!so the monitor outs would be prefader eh?
yep
@@LeonTodd I have a couple of different mixers which have a prefader aux send but not a line mixer, I was wondering if there were ANY line mixers that had prefader auxes. This is a good video this little line mixer also has mute switches, very useful for multiple fx chains. 👍👍👍
@Leon Todd So what this solves is it routes the effect units in parallel instead of into each other in series?
Correct! Also prevents multiple A/D conversions on the dry signal.
@@LeonTodd how would this work with older units like my PCM60 that has a mono input and stereo out and still keep the stereo signal when stacking other stereo units?
i just daisy chain all my units from my effects loop on my 5150iii, and bypass the ones im not using
Leon, cables and connectors are all wrong! BIG TIME! WTF, man!!!!
Do you mean using a Y-cable from SM10 sends into a FX unit? Also is it best to have stereo cables into say a PCM80 rather than mono in?
😅 P R O M O S M!!!
Really confused professor
Mediocre
Can we get red seven stuff in AU yet ?
Don't say legends say queens it's much more apt
Nah
@@LeonTodd yea, majority of the people here are queens,wannabes, millennials. Otherwise you sound...you know...into kids....it's weird bro
if you're after an SM10, I bought mine here and if you do the same you'll be supporting my channel - imp.i114863.net/XxvXLX
Is this similar to the behringer rx1602
@@lukather1 yes
@@LeonTodd hi Todd they’ve stopped selling the Samson in Uk ! 😞
I am using a roland m120 and a Rane sm26. Output of my rocktron preamp to the sm26 input then the expander to a channel on the m120. This way I can blend the dry signal with the effects seperatly. I know sone use the aux send on thw m120 to feed the rane mixer but for some reason on mine, the level is really low. Stomp boxes work great in the loop but would output a strong enough signal to feed the rane input. The ouputs of all the rack units go back to the m120 Left and Right. Running a voodu valve as a preamp, 2 spx 90's, alesis microverb and a Boss se-50. And a bunch of pedals in the front.