Billy the Kid Mystery Solved
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- čas přidán 3. 01. 2018
- A journey of discovery. This video documents how the latest photograph of Billy the Kid is verified. No other iconic western figure has had the amount of intrigue and debate. Thank you for watching.
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the original uploaded video disappeared around the same time Abrams photo began to get press. Unable to get a response on why or how it disappeared so I am reloading.
![[Vowel]물고기는 물에서 살아야 해🐟🤣Fish have to live in the water #funny](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3G9MH063Cx4/mqdefault.jpg)
Billy the kid is one the rare western icons where legend and fact were really pretty close.not a cold blooded killer but dealt with many who were and sought to take his life.doesn't get the credit he deserves for standing up to a corrupt system alone.
Your right. Billy the kid was standing up to corrupt people that killed the man that took him in. He dealt with corrupt people ,Only a very few people would help back him up.
According the wikipedia information, I have to agree. When the lawmen were corrupt and commit murders, young people like Billy the kid standing up to corrupt lawmen is commendable. His killing of the corrupt and murderous sheriff was something that had to happen, and Billy the kid had balls to do that. Perhaps Billy the kid was no angel, but likely more principled than his opponents. He could've avoided war after his master's murder if he was simply a hired gunman, but he fought back seeking revenge, meant he had some principles and loyalty to his employer.
The guy in the photo looks nothing like the real verified Billy the Kid, and those computer facial measurement programs always produce false positive results no matter whose face you're analyzing, they're cheap and inaccurate toys, proven so.
@@bottlerocket3218 I think the facial recognition software has it's place, but ultimately a human brain has to be there to make the final call. Yes, it is true that those software can be tricked without too much difficulty.
Could use a few men with his character to stand up to today's corruption .
Whether it is or isn't I know not, but I'm sure that Billy would be amazed at the interest in his picture. I lived in Lincoln and worked at Fort Stanton in the mid 1970s. I've thought alot about Billy's escapades in my life. I too believe that he got a bum rap because of dishonest politicians and other public officials. History shows that he was a stand up guy who didn't bail on his friends when the chips were down. That's a personality trait that is rare in this day and was probably just as rare then.
Sad to hear he died so young....He really wasn't much more than 'a kid'...
He was an alpha male and the last time I heard that wasn't against the law,top guy,imagine meeting him and getting drunk,playing cards.
The Killing of Frank Cahill was classed as unjustifiable homicide by a CORONERS JURY, he would have hanger for that alone !!!! how is that a bum rap ?
Hence the knick name lol
So many people empathize with Billy the Kid because of the injustice he suffered at the hands of the corrupt legal system. His boss, mentor and father figure was murdered and justice was not done. He took the law into his own hands. He wasn't alone, yet he shouldered most of the blame. The time and place where he lived was brutal and unforgiving. He is a sad and tragic figure in American history.
still goes on now
Not sure how John Tunstall was considered a father figure, more like a brother maybe. Tunstall was 25 when he was killed and Billy was working for him less than 3 months at the time. Billy was about 20 or 21 and was actually working for the other side (Doolan/Murphey) when he was arrested for rustling horses. Tunstall was kind to him while he was in the Lincoln dungeon/jail. He went to work for Tunstall when he got out. That he was loyal is not in doubt.
Man Plez do research Henry lived at Tunstalls home as a hand nuthing more Charles was like a brother and the one that looked at Tunstall as a father
@@onlythewise1
How'd you like a steel-toed boot jammed up your ass, dork?
I agree totally with this post. I can understand Billy's outrage. His employer was giving him and his friends a fair deal and the "Irish Mafia," of Lincoln County killed the man in cold blood. He was one of the few people that gave Bill a life worth living and gainful employment. Billy must've been awfully hurt as well as really angry.
Well done, you even pointed out that the old tin type photos were mirror image, meaning what appeared to be the rifle in the right hand was actually being held in the left and the revolver (and it was a revolver) was actually on his right side. If you look real close at the old tin type, even the vest buttons were on the wrong side, they were on the side of the vest a woman would have them (on the left) the buttons were actually on the right side. Well made video, your research was outstanding. Thank you for that.
The Winchester clearly shows the photo is flipped.
@@normanbraslow7902 Well, it is obviously a tin type so the fact that it is mirror image was never questioned. So, that was not a new revelation.
I played and re-played the merging over and over again, and I noticed that the mouths were an almost exact match, including what is visible of the teeth. My opinion is they are the same person, just in a slightly different pose and in different lighting (one outdoors, the other inside).
Pffffttttt This looks nothing like Emilio Estevez.
Good one🤔😐😁😂🤣😃😄😅😆😉😊
Lol
Who cares!!! Emilio gave an amazing performance.
Lol stupid.. Funny stuff
Lmfao that's funny
There is actually a pretty well developed protocol for comparing photographs like this. It involves taking precise measurements of things like the bottom of the nose to the top of the lip bottom of the nose to the bottom of the lips the distance between the eyes things like that. You have to do it properly, with quantifiable measurements if you want to convince everyone of the authenticity of it.
After researching my family tree and assisting others doing the same, one thing I learned from this experience is how many times I saw photos of a person's great, great grandfather and was shocked at the resemblance between people long since dead vs. their decendents who were currently alive. Sometime there were some amazing resemblances to nephews. I believe there is no way to prove this without doing actual DNA analysis. So I would like to declare that this could very well be a photo of Billy, but it also could very easily not be a photo of Billy. We'll never know without using actual DNA analysis.
In pictures, my grandpa and I look identical at 17. Any pictures of me at 3 and my oldest son are identical. It is amazing.
I agree these overlay don't prove anything but his research on the family being there ads a bit of the chance it might be him , I'd like to hear more about the family and there relationship with him.
Yep. Once I saw a picture of my great grandfather I knew where I got my nose from.
Being a Facebook certified expert, on pretty much everything, I do hereby declare that this may, or may not be, Billy the Kid.
That's Democratic speech and of course it was learned on Facebook LOL you don't think that platform separating the people as a whole do you and a little organizations with an agenda yeah me neither we're just tripping
Has one more thing Billy used to kill people for speaking like that that's hacking
@Paul Waldrop
You can neither confirm nor deny the presence of any Mr. The Kid here.
I concur your certificate of experience by my equal and opportunistic wit & unsinkable enthusiasm.
Good day sir!
Not !
😆 🤣 😂
Just my two cents worth...the only thing that really caught my eye was the mouth. It is well known that Billy had protruding upper front teeth (buck teeth). That is obvious in the tintype and you can actually discern Billy’s front teeth. In the newly discovered photo the mouth is closed not allowing a look at the teeth but the shape of the mouth does not belie buck teeth. If anything the lower lip appears to protrude more than the upper which leads me to believe the subject does not have buck teeth. As much as I would like this to be of Billy I have my doubts. How does this new photo measure up when compared in the same manner to the “croquet” photo?
That was one of my 2 points. The other that the new photo shows a bulbous nose, but the tintype shows a noticeably slimmer nose. I'm pretty sure that Billy didn't see an orthodontist or a plastic surgeon in the 1880s.
I wonder if they've used any facial recognition software on these pics.
Thank you
Agreed!!! That's exactly what I thought
Yes for me too the mouth in the newer one seems wider as well; I know relaxed my mouth is wider than pursed, but in the tin type he just appears to be a mouth breather and isn't trying to talk or otherwise make the shape smaller.
This makes no sense, I have buck teeth (and a major gap, as my mom does) and my lower lip protrudes out. Note I’m African American but I’m positive race has nothing to do with it, genetics does.
The tin type Billy has a thinner nose, and droopier eyes, especially the right eye. The nose in the new photo is way too bulbous and wide to match the tin type. Close, but no cigar. It's not Billy.
100% agree
Agreed. Billy's ear sticks out a lot more as well. Doesn't look like the same guy to me.
He is screwing up his mouth and nose as if about to sneeze
I’d agree about the facial features. Also look at the fingers and hands. In the new photo the person alleged to be Billy is healthier looking. Remember Billy was in a few fist fights and the tin type shows it. The family that immigrated to Lincoln County did they come from New York. Billy was born in New York City.
@@calbob750 you're right about the hands, they don't match either. From everything I've read they "believe" Billy came from NY, but there are so few reliable records. Some say he may have been born in Indiana or Missouri, but either way his mother took him west at a very young age.
You have convinced me Mark. The photo you're referring to is Billy. Great work!
I believe with about 90% certainty that this is a photo of 'Billy The Kid'. Wonderful explanation, &compelling proof! Well done 🖒🖒
The tin type nose looks thinner. Nostrils don’t flair as much.
@Sonjingohan 0 I wondered about that too. It might be lighting - one photo was outdoors and the other was probably in a studio. The nose is slightly different.
I look at the ears. The certified tintype Kid has larger ears; like Obama.
movement causing distortions,were not avoidable,in the old tin types,Even if you could stand perfectly still!,you still have to breath! exposure times not like even antique later cameras,and tin type still used up to the turn of the century exposure time was about 3 seconds.
@@christopherhines2718 unless they said, hold your breath. Lol...
I agree the nose is different
As a pro photographer who uses this technique routinely, I note that while there is much continuity in the registration of superimposed images I also note that the subjects left eye appears considerably different in that it is “raised” higher on the tin image. I am not convinced that the tilt of the head accounts for this…..but am prepared to be wrong.
A mystery indeed🧐!
The nose appears to be more slender on the tintype
Head tilt may explain the difference in apparent eye height. If you look at the apparent height of the lower left ear lobe compared to the lower right ear lobe in the two hundred percent images at 14:25 and 14:58 you will see a very similar difference. Also, in both images the left eye is less 'squinty' and the right more rounded.
The difference in the appearance of the nose is explicable in that it is in bright sunlight in the outdoor picture, having more shadowing and contrast than in the studio tintype.
The best way to do the comparison would be to pinpoint features on the face and head and do a comparison of the distance ratios for each image, or simply overlay the resulting lattice networks.
In the confirmed picture it looks like he is recovering from a bad beating with the way his left eye is.
I noticed this too, but thought maybe he was squinting that one eye because of some sort of glare from light. I think it’s him, the posture seems the same in both photos. I guess we won’t ever know for sure.
To me it is very doubtful that it is Billy the Kid. In fact, I am more convinced that the photo examined years early reported on here: czcams.com/video/kekoxL_Orko/video.html is Billy.
Fantastic . That was fantastic. I was thinking of that picture and billy on the way home from work just yesterday
Well done sir. Very convincing procedure you went thru. If it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck and so on.
A friend of mine pointed out the reversed image and the loading gate on the rifle, back in '75. His grandfather saw it years earlier. Its funny how Hollywood made many movies of him being left-handed.
He was ambidextrous if I recall correctly.
I would say yes. Every time I see this stuff I want to say give the man a rest and let him rest in peace but I always enjoy it
I agree with your sentiment. I do believe it the Afterlife and in their ability to see what's going on here. I would like to think he is content with so many people today that are believing him and of his longer life lived. Brushy Bill's face and the tintype was matched as being the same person with today's use of Facial Recognition. That's saying a lot! Of course their's diehard non-believers out there, too.
If he only knew how much he is loved 💙💙RIP WILLIAM FROM YOYR BIGGEST SCOTTISH FAN 🙏🏴
I won't swear to anything - but your efforts produced an excellent reply - yes - it is the Kid . One more way of ID is look at his ears in both photos - exactly the same size , place and pattern . Excellent work !
The photograph is a dead ringer for an old newspaper or wanted poster I remember seeing somewhere of 'William H. Bonney'. Bear in mind, the confirmed photo with the Winchester was of Billy after a few days of rough trail riding-he might have been halfway sloshed and decided a picture would be a grand idea. This was also when he was a wanted man and had 'matured' quite a bit. The one in question seems to show an innocent young man before he went renegade. When I look at both photos I get the sense of a mischievous, fun loving type that matches contemporary accounts of BTK being a jovial, wonderful sense of humor type which he got from his mother.
Your correct on everything, I would like to point out , to my knowledge there was never actually a wanted picture of Billy the kid. Just a small reward for 500.00 from governor Lewis Wallace. Most of the time people didn't know what someone looked like , back then, it took someone that knew yhe person to capture them.
@@jimmyknight1609 I've said the same thing about most people not being able to recognize someone back then. All they had to go by (especially in days earlier than this) was usually a line drawing. Some people arrested as pirates could easily have been the wrong person, as with Edward Teach and Stede Bonnet in 1718. If they even slightly changed their looks (haircut, clothes) they would not be recognized. The same holds true of people in the old west. I also thought about that with John Wilkes Booth. If he had walked by most people back then, they would not have known who he was.
You make a very compelling argument and I find no room to dispute your claim. Excellent presentation!
To me the nose appears different in size and the orbital balance of the eyes is off as well. Billy’s left eye is noticeably higher in the original photo and his nose is narrower in the original.
I recognized him immediately, yes. The way life was back then, people's "looks" changed with how much they had to eat, where they were sleeping, how much time they spent outdoors for their occupations (or indoors), and in Billy's case the trauma/violance with which he was engaged throughout his young life. In your photo, it seems to have been, as you believe, a younger Billy; less
stressed, less "taken apart" by life, and with a bit less "bravado" than in the tintype. As an artist who does a lot of portrait work I can tell immediately, despite the seeming "differences" in photos, the "essence" of a person; their emotional and psychological qualities as much as their physical appearance from year to year or decade to decade. This is Billy, definitely.
Do you not think his nose is much wider and rounded compared to the narrow nose on the tin type .
@@iandixon7641 I argree with you. Not billy
Hmmm.. Maybe.
I still see three different people in the two image-mediums (photographs or what-have-yous)
I'm not an artist but I am certain the pictures are of the same person. In the first picture he seems younger and more innocent but in the second he is posing as a fellow deliberately projecting that he is dangerous. The other thing is I have taken into account the different lighting conditions, the tin type is indoors and the other is under the Sun and considered the effects, lighting in the studio would have been by oil, paraffin or candle giving the image a darker tone. I doubt you would only find 2 such similar people in one locale at the same time unless they were twin siblings, I think that alone makes it highly probable.
They have been playing young guns and young guns 2 over and over on tv . Now we know that Lou Diamond Phillips and Keifer Sutherland's characters did not die in gunfights but they lived long lives . I agree with multiple comments on here about BTK . He like most of the regulators were like modern day ppl who struggle to make ends meet , all they knew was street wisdom and surviving the best they knew how . Life did not give them a choice , and bc they avenged the death of Mr. Tunstall , bc they defended themselves from the hired scum of the crooked ass bully land baron and did not blend in with the rich pigs and real pieces of shit in that society, they automatically were assumed guilty and had death tags on their heads . They were not outlaws, the man made law was not made for them and they stood up to it and refused to back down. They became famous for being killers as news reported back then but to me they became Legends for standing up for their beliefs, forming a family of outcasts that society looked down on . They are trailblazers and like Bon Jovi they went out in " A Blaze of Glory " . Regulators 4 Life. Sometimes you have to invoke your own form of justice to survive .
please don't call him BTK
Sounds real familiar with what is going today
The census data and the picture overlapping are very convincing. I don’t see how it could be anyone else. They are the same person! Thank you!!
My family has been in chavez an Lincoln county's before new mexico was a state an I have heard stories of Billy passed down through the family he never robbed any one killed just to kill did not bully people those that were killed tried to kill him he was helped by Hispanic family because he respected them an was willing to help whenever he could
He was fluent in Spanish as well
The Killing of Frank Cahill was classed as unjustifiable homicide by a CORONERS JURY, he would have hanger for that alone !!!!
Ok. Looking at this video few times. I see the similarities in the body. The face may have some differences cause one picture was taken indoors and the others was taken outdoors with the sun in his face. Therefore.. there may be different on facial figures. Specially on the nose and eyes. But something made me scratch my head while looking at this and is convincing me as well that this could be Billy the Kid.
#1. The Adam’s apple in the throat. They both share the same Adam’s apple and that cannot be hidden by sun light or environment. #2. They both have the same hat. Billy was known to have unique hat at the time. Overall... this could be “Billy the kid” unless there’s another kid with the same body fixtures and Adam’s apple with the same hat. Good video.
I think it is Billy. I think you've shown some pretty compelling evidence. The facial features line up with reasonable accommodations allowing differences for photographic techniques. The shape of the neck and shoulders are spot on.
That is Billy. The boots even look the same. He worked as a ranch hand on my ancestor's small ranch in Rodey, N.M. It was called the "Coleman Ranch" in those days.
We went from one picture of Billy the Kid standing with a rifle, to pictures of him playing croquet, playing poker, sitting behind Pat Garrett, standing with two unknown men. standing with one unknown male, sitting next to an unknown male, and standing, alone, next to a chair.
The resemblance of the man playing poker and the man sitting with an arm on a pillow next to a standing, unknown man are closest to the one picture known to be Billy the Kid. Like stated by another commenter, he had buck teeth and his mouth, opened or closed, evidenced this profoundly.
With all the time, from start to finish, it took to actually pose for, and have a tin type taken, how did he find the time to be an outlaw?
The process was akin to the bird pecking an image into a stone slab on the Flintstones, but the bird was faster.
I think the playing croquet one is the only other real one.
The resemblance is there. It's very convincing. Old photos are hard to work with. But technology helps. I would say yes. Only question I have is how was he when the photos were taken? People do age and if it is him obviously he was younger when the photo was taken. Truly "The Kid".
Interestingly, the author never mentions the similarity of ears. In both photos, the right ear sticks out more than the left-- caused by the hat or natural physically, they too are nearly identical. That was the final proof to me in addition to the similar facial recognition. Good video.
One ear sticks out way more than the other photo.
First thing I noticed was the sloping shoulders. They are at the same angle in both pictures.
I saw that too and said yep, that's him
You are wrong, the ears are significantly different between the two photos. In the accepted photo of Billy the Kid, the right ear is larger and extends lower on his head, even with the upper corner of his mouth. In the newly found photo, the ear is smaller and further up the head, only extending to the level of the nostrils. They are not the same person.
I definitely agree with you. That's Billy The Kid!!! That process you did was freaking amazing!!! There is not a doubt in my mind that this is Billy!! Now you need to compare this one to some pictures that are known to be Brushy Bill Roberts and see if you can find any similarities there!!!
To me, that is in my opinion, neither the eye brows nor the nose align with each other. You made some good points, I agree. But I'd like to be able to critique the finer details before making an assessment. But, I thank you So Much for bringing this material up front and presented to us all. What you've done is commendable, for sure. Again, Thank You Sincerely.
After reading about "Billy the Kid". I had more respect for his anger. He was mistreated many times that stimulated this anger and outrage. Many times he was protecting himself and was condemn for it. I don't agree with the outrage, but I can understand why he acted out.
Really? Everything I've read and heard about him points to a guy that couldn't stay out or away from trouble. He started out as a teen stealing and getting into trouble with worse and worse men. He went looking for trouble.
I don't think it was anger as much as it was revenge for killing a friend, that and loyalty to the men he was riding with. Sure he got mad, but it wasn't righteous anger in my book. I don't even think it was justified in most cases. He was just a guy that was good with a gun and had no boundaries. He would let it take him wherever it did and to hell with everything else.
That area of New Mexico was EXTREMELY corrupt. The local and state and even some federal officials were all on the take. The Sherriff was just a lackey for the Doolan/Murphey ring and Billy originally worked for them. Tunstall convinced him to work for the other side. So, he was in the thick of things from the beginning but chose to stay active in the war. Any of those men could've left but didn't. I think they just loved to fight.
kid was naughty that dude killed kid at only 21years of age
Billy or not..its still a boy that was 16 years old that stood up to what he belived was corruption .and they killed his boss that took him in..rest in peace Billy
Well, He Was 14 Years Old, But Who Am I To Argue. Heh!
Hello, thanks for
all the research that you've done on Billy, have you done any on Ringo?
Great video, you really have me convinced this really could be Billy. Everything lines up as you say, but you forgot to mention something extremely important. Check out the shape, angle and length of his right hand thumb and trigger finger. They're a virtual perfect match.
I have met like 15 people or so in my life telling me that they were the direct descendant of Billy The Kid or Jesse James.
Man, I swear, some people got their info wrong or those guys got around quiet a lot back in their day.
15? I have met about 40 even using NY as proof for billy the kid pointing out him and his mom left when he was a kid forget how many I hear are descendants of kings and queens of europe but live in Montana
Interesting.. because i'm also a descendant
When he says the eyes are a bit different because of the tilt of the head, funny how the other eye seems to stay in the exact same place, only one eye really moves. But the tilt of the head, oookk
I agree, tilt the head and the jaw line would move also. The slow blend worked in his favor, a 100% back and forth, over and over would have been better, but that is why I think he used the slow blend
I am quite sure you are right. As a former seaman I look at the nose as well. Many young guys get a broken nose and in both photographs we see the same crooked nose. Same direction, to the right as so many and very remarkable the same "intensity" (!)
Excellent video and photo comparison! Possible turn photos evenly match brow angle? May help align the eyes a little better as most identify by eyes?
Very interesting...I'm as convinced as you are.. Well done for all your hard work !
Take into account the pictures were most likely taken at two different times, maybe years apart and the fact that the eyes in the photo of Billy with his pistol were slanted just like eyes the authinticated photo of Billy. Also that they were taken at two different distances. This may explain the slight differences in placement of his facial features. Overall who's to say, however in my opinion it is the same person. Billy the Kid
Man, what a great way to make the case for the photograph. I have one of Annie Oakley that I should do the same thing with.
Crazy to see him age almost. Those were hard times and I'm sure even harder being on the run where everywhere you could go someone was waiting to kill you. In between those places were tribes that didn't care who you were. He seems to lose weight and his face looks harder and eyes get more piercing. I like it. It gets my vote as a lifelong fan of his! Who is the other guy supposed to be?
The nose that's not him
agreed.... it is not the kid
absolutly his not the billy the kid
TRICKY NICKY ...Not to mention the ears are different
TRICKY NICKY how about this one! I think this is the real Billy czcams.com/video/kekoxL_Orko/video.html
I had the same thought.
The kid did get a bad wrap , he's a hero in my eyes.
The Killing of Frank Cahill was classed as unjustifiable homicide by a CORONERS JURY, he would have hanger for that alone !!!! how is that a bum rap ?
The similarities of both pictures are amazing how close they are
The tin type has always been known to be a very unflattering picture of billy because of movement, but the way you did the overlay convinced me…regulators mount up !!
The nose is perfect as well. Dimensions of faces are remarkably different in most people, and I've learned this as a portrait artist of over forty years. I'm in complete agreement that this is one and the same man.
The right ear is also more forward facing in both photos. The right eye in both subjects is also squinched. None of the comments I've seen below takes lighting into account either, which, in the original shot, is more uniform, and would soften facial features. It also pays to bear in mind that those who 'authenticated' the original photo never knew Billy personally.
That makes it even more amazing to find a photo that shows him as younger and then to do everything over with the print whatever you call it anyways I I believe it is him that's amazing
Fascinating, and really persuasive. Thank you very cool. 👍
If you read Garrett's story of Billy and other contemporaneous writers, they all say Billy had a pronounced overbite. I see a dominant lower lip in the new photo.
I don't think Garrett killed Billy because apparently him and the other 2 sheriffs didn't actually see him shoot Billy, it was dark out and garrett only recognised his voice saying he knew it was Billy one other sheriff never seen Billy before and the other sheriff knew him slightly but apparently none actually confirmed it was Billy beside garret , who probably wanted the reward money.
I don’t think he did either, I can’t believe his body wouldn’t have been photographed.
@@billjohnson9191 yeah exactly it was common practice to photo graph who you killed if you are in law enforcement during that time. Jesse James was photographed as where others. It doesn't make sense he wasn't photographed. Garret and poe where masons so poe would cover and say garrert killed him but eventually everyone present at that time even admitted years later that Garrett had killed the wrong man. Who knows what happened to Billy whether Garrett let him go or never found him, I think he killed the wrong man and got everyone there to cover for him because he was afraid he would get in trouble or killed for killing the wrong man. Doesn't make sense for a sheriff to shoot and kill someone they cant even see because they wouldn't be able to properly identify the target. There are too many fallacies in Garretts accounts. Plus he wrote a book about Billy the kid and also made some money from alleging he killed him. I don't think Garrett killed Billy on that day.
Garett already killed two men he thought were billy, couldn’t risk a third. Plus he had major gambling debts and that $500 reward was needed
The nose of each photo looks completely different to me.
The jawline for sure, I think it is Billy the kid who in my eyes is a hero, fighting as he did against government corruption. Thank you!!
Very good work. I like your evidence and video was very good.
My family are McCarty's from County Cork in Ireland. Every St. Patrick's day I think of William McCarty. As time passes I hope to learn as much as possible about William. Not much in my family history about him. RIP Billy.
It's also the same hat tilted slightly different from the known photo of Billy. The hats are the same in both pictures. I'm convinced they are the same person.
omg look at the close up of the faces.. open your eyes two different people all together.
It’s a really interesting piece of work, an I thank you for posting it! It’s incredibly interesting, the work you have done, overlaying the two photos and looking for a link to Lincoln County! My doubt, however, is the provenance of the photograph itself. Where has it come from? Where was the shot taken, et al? But a brilliant effort nevertheless.
This is really stretching to say the photo lineup is a match !! At 70 per cent it really shows they are not the same persons.jawline really changes, eyes and socket completely diff. I wish it was but its just too diff !
I always thought Emilio Estevez gave an incredible performance of Billy in Young Guns
The one thing I noticed consistently is that his right ear stuck out farther than his left ear in both images. If the tintype is Billy, then the cabinet card is most definitely him as well.
You’ll notice he doesn’t mention the nose, that’s because it doesn’t match. One is a lot broader than the other and has a different shape to the end and the nostrils. Definitely not the same person
Definitely
Definitely same guy.
Old peoples noses and ears get bigger. Your nose and ears never stop growing
Great points. However, I think that in those days not too many people had very many clothes in the closet so they were the same clothes for a long time. I observed that he appears to have on the same hat, vest and possibly the same pants and boots on as well. So yes, it looks authentic to me.
You did a fantastic job... The two pictures are 100% of each other, that's Billy the Kid... Thank You!!!
Awesome production. Also, it seems that his right ear rather sticks out more than the left. It is the same in both photos- the ears are the same.
I believe it is Billy. The eyes were almost identical, as was the body type. shoulders, etc. A jawline can become rounded as just a few pounds are gained. The 2 photos are too much alike not to be him. One would have to look far and wide for someone who looked so much like Billy. Great job you did. Thanks.
Bingo. For me it was his right eye that immediately struck me: He had a characteristic squint and raised eyebrow clearly visible in the scaled photo comparisons, which is especially impressive in consideration of the fact that his eyes would have to be slightly distorted in the tin-type due to the extremely long exposure; it's just damned difficult to impossible to keep your eyes perfectly still and you have no control whatsoever over the dilation of your pupils. Heck, it even looks like he could be wearing the very same hat in both photos. Very cool.
The nose looks different to me .
I also noticed the eye squint the eyebrow but first I noticed the hat it looks like the very same hat aged as much as he did
Yet his eyes, nose and ears are COMPLETELY different. 😂
I would also have to ask if it hasn't already been asked whether the old tintype is like the mirror image which puts the right hand on the left side and left hand on the right side as you said as in the old tin type. I might have missed it and you may have made that clear that the photo with the two men standing was the same as the mirror image whereas the left hands on the right hand in the right hands on the left hand. Is that the case also with that photo, evidently it has to be the case if you're trying to prove it,. I'm sorry if I missed that or someone else has brought that out.
Good and well-done effort. Thanks.
Your one of the first to explain how tintypes work its been documented many times that Bonney was Right handed not left as most assume
Should have put the face's in full view next to each other. That would have done more then the slow overlay. The slow overlay stops a person from seeing differences. It blurs them into what you want people to see. Looking at the cheekbones and fetchers around the mouth, eyes, chin, forehead. It does look like the same person in the tintype. Also your title should say Billy the Kid picture mystery solved.
This blur is never more present than in Michael Jackson's video Black or White
I watched the right ear not the face, because of the blurred result but that right ear is the same in both frames
I thought this was about the other byk mystery. Did Pat Garett kill him
I agree
I thought it was him even before your amazing work. The posture and his head angle were so alike. I hate to think of him as an outlaw, looks like any other teen from that time.
Great work and composite comparison.
My sister does facial recognition sketches for missing person age progression, wanted suspect etc and she thinks its the same. If you put more center lines on nose mouth eyes the spaces dont change. These features can differ on identical twins but not this photo. Pic with gun is photo lighting so shrinks the edges of nose compared to sunlight contrast. Whether its billy or not its highly likely its the same person body proportion matches too.
The tintype was taken in outside lighting also. Billy was standing outside a saloon.
My eyes say not even close! Not the same man!
How do we know that any of the pictures of Billy the Kid are actually Billy the Kid ? It could just be a picture of some small man with a rifle that someone photographed a long time ago.
@@shakazulu2781 very much agreed. Folks will lie about anything for a very small amount of attention.
Unless Billy had a twin, it's got to be him! I've seen a very similar software, if not the same, used on a forensic show tp ID a skull to a missing person's photograph.
That evidence is not allowed in courts anymore because its not accurate enough. Just because two things may look similar to the human eye does not mean it is scientifically accurate. The human eye likes to make things fit together, especially familiar things like faces.
Very convincing. The hat adds to it for me. No living relatives with artifacts? One of the best stories of the old west.
The nose, ears, eyes and mouth are different in the two pictures.
Squirrel 361 and that big ol’ chin🤷♀️.
I've heard that the authenticated photo wasn't actually him amd that this one might actually be him
Wow! I agree, it has to be Billy. Hes even wearing the same hat. Its at a bit of a different angle, but I notice what seems to be a unique hatband and it appears to be the same in both images. Also, the ears seem to be on the same level, albeit, a bit different but the difference in the ears and hat, from pic to pic us the difference in head angle. It amazes me that just when you think youve seen the last evidence, something new crops up. Well done on the verification!
Yup, no question about it. Great video and commentary. Thanks
Awesome Marc, I agree it looks like a match!
I swear, Billy the Kid must be the most photographed person of the 19th century.
The tintype photo of Billy looks like he might have had a few drinks because he looks more relaxed. Both photos are probably him but who knows. I have 5 photos of my grandfather who was born in the 1800's and he looks different in every one.
Exactly, I replied I have pictures of myself that could pass as someone else to people that doesn't know me that well. In some pictures I was tired from working and shadows, and other things taken into consideration. What I am saying, is, I looked different in pictures taken a week to a month apart, much less a year.
I have many photos of my great grandfather. High school , WW1 thru 1974 before his death all are different as far as appearance , clothing , facial hair etc.
I think it took about 15-20min to take a tintype. People had to use head braces in order to remain still for that length of time, and any movement could case blurriness or distortion. Also, tintypes are reverse image.
The tintype BTK looks like his face has been beaten senseless 100x over and then to make it worse a wagon wheel ran over his head a few times and then was kicked in the face by a horse. The BTK in the tintype clearly has a crooked face (features) and it’s not because his head is tilted because it’s not tilted much, the hat is tilted and is throwing it off.
Is the tintype an older or younger BTK? Imo they are similar, but extremely different.
We don’t even know 100% if the tintype is even BTK.
@@pudgyloafer9793 It took about 10 seconds to take a tintype. Hard, not to move even then, though.
Is it possible to run both images through facial recognition software at FBI forensic lab? Supposedly the distances between eyes, noses, mouths, etc. are as distinctive as fingerprints.
I'm convinced. It could even conceivably be argued that he's wearing the same hat, the tintype photo coming later after it had seen more wear and tear. The right ear is the same (once the tintype has been reversed to reflect the proper view). Someone commented on the mouth not being the same, with the original tintype clearly showing his prominent buck teeth, but I disagree; it's been my experience that people with an overbite, when their mouth is closed their lower lip protrudes, and that can be seen by the shadow created by the lower lip in the new photo. It's subtle, but there nonetheless. I believe this one is much easier to see the similarities than the croquet photo..
The nose looks different to me. In your photo, it looks much larger, and bulbous.
And crooked
The picture of the brothers purchased in thrift shop in tombstone,the one they call brother matches the man from this image,and the one they say is he,matches the original tin type perfect.Darn nightmare.lol...Humans heresy and it only takes 1 and we are OFF!!!!.lol...
@@aldenunion The sun squint argument was a poor one, since he's squinting in both images. More so in the actual "Billy, The Kid" tin. I'm glad you abandoned that one. The nose is still a problem for me, but the similarities haven't been lost on me either. For instance, the jaw line is the same. In both cases the chin is similar to Chuck Connors, James Arness, and Ted Cassidy (Lurch from the Addams Family). And they both wear the same style of hat. But in the "brothers" photo the nose is more bulbous, and the ears don't stick out as much, particularly on the left side. Also in the "brothers" photo, the brim of the hat seems frayed in the front, and that doesn't appear to be the case in the "Billy, The Kid" tin. Another difference is in the way the two wear their pants. In the "Billy, The Kid" tin the pants are worn below the vest and descend on the right. In the "brothers" image, the pants come up to the third button on the vest and are level across the waist. Most people don't change the way they wear their pants. They find a comfortable way to wear them, and stick with it. So, While I can see why some believe the "brother" on the right is Billy, I'm still not convinced. Similar doesn't mean it's him. And the dissimilarities carry just as much weight as the similarities.
BadOldPuddyTat Y’all stupid taking bout his nose have u ever been in fights my nose looks completely dam different than a year or 2 ago fucking bigger and crooked and different sized looks like I have a different nose he obviously looks younger in one photo as well y don’t u think before you speak
@@randomgod53-23 "Y'all stupid talking bout his nose have you ever been in fights?" Why yes, yes I have! And it's certainly obvious why you keep getting your ass kicked! I understand how a nose changes after a break or three! The question is, do you? If the bigger nose was on the older "Billy" and NOT the younger kid standing with his "brother", I would have considered that as a possibility. But I have never seen a nose become smaller and straighter after a few breaks! So, it's your argument that better fits your opening statement.
What is the age difference between the photos?
A year or two
Excellent presentation! Totally the same person in the images.
It definitely lines up perfect. Hat's off to you & if anyone had anything to do with it. I didn't see the croquette picture that the History Channel & Kevin Costner did. I'll see if I can find it. I'm not only speaking for myself when I say this kind of stuff always fascinated me. Come on just the stories alone keep you intrigued .Thank you kindly for sharing , Kevin
I love antiquing and I always picked up cards and stuff like that and anything I can find that's amazing and it's a lot of fun
The right ear looked identical. As for difference in the nose and mouth, we could surmise that some of these differences could be explained as changes due to fights and carousing that Billy may have been in.
Good work ,I can see it but so much time has past we will truly never know
What do you make of Brushy Bill Robinson?
Without a doubt that is BILLY...The Facial zoom is extremely convincing.
Is the video msker your brother?
He has the look of a wily, smart-mouthed wild kid that would seem to fit his demeanor. Kinda like a Keith Moon of the old west.
Great footage.
Do you know what years these two pictures were taken?
In the second picture (with two people) the nose is different and he looks like he’s put a little weight on his face. But I would say this is definitely a match.
Have you ever done this with these photos and one of Brushy Bill Robert’s?
The other guy looks more like the original Billy picture.
Ollie roberts
I thought the same.