Brushy Bill Roberts AKA Billy The Kid: Physical Similarities & Facial Recognition Study
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 01. 2022
- In This video, I discuss the history and provenance of the famous Billy the Kid tintype photograph, known as the Dedrick Upham Tintype. I also discuss Roberts' physical similarities to Billy the Kid, as well as the results of a Facial Recognition / Photo Comparison study conducted by the University of Texas - Austin.
Previous Videos In This Series:
Brushy Bill Roberts AKA Billy the Kid: Was He Illiterate? • Brushy Bill Roberts AK...
Brushy Bill Roberts AKA Billy The Kid: Could He Speak Spanish?
• Brushy Bill Roberts AK...
Brushy Bill Roberts AKA Billy The Kid: Did He Really Claim To Be A Member Of The James Gang? / watchv=lqyrxql6dcc&t=311s
Brushy Bill Roberts AKA Billy The Kid: Was He Really Oliver P. Roberts, Born In 1879?
• Brushy Bill Roberts AK...
Brushy Bill Roberts In His Own Words: The Lincoln County War & Debunking The Saga Of Billy The Kid: • Brushy Bill Roberts In...
Book Source List with Amazon Affiliate Links: As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Alias Billy the Kid by William V. Morrison & C.L. Sonnichsen - amzn.to/3B3vH4H
The Saga of Billy the Kid by Walter Noble Burns - amzn.to/3B3qOsv
Billy the Kid And Me Were the Same by William A. Tunstill - amzn.to/3yQfb5u
Billy the Kid : Las Vegas newspaper accounts of his career, 1880-1881 by W.M. Morrison amzn.to/3v1PNIO
The Return of the Outlaw Billy the Kid by W.C. Jameson & Frederic Bean - amzn.to/3PKsbAt
Billy the Kid Beyond The Grave by W.C. Jameson - amzn.to/3yT85wT
The Trial of Billy the Kid by Bobby E. Hefner - amzn.to/3RKVeWi
I have NEVER EVER doubted that brushy Bill was billy ! I love history especially when it comes to Billy aka William McCarty. I have physically gone to probably everywhere he had been as per documented facts, including Mexico ! As for the lame ass decision claiming brushy bill Roberts as not being billy the kid was & is the most outrageous thing I’ve heard ! I went to this college to hear this info first hand & this is what I was told directly.... “ Brushy Bill Roberts is beyond a shadow of doubt BILLY THE KID” ! I know that in any case no one in a courtroom will state that anything is 100% leaving no room for error. Yet off the record HE (Brushy Bill) without a doubt was Billy the kid. I just wish there was something fro the past that identified Billy without ANY doubt that could also be used with Brushy Bill Roberts... Like dna or that bullet to test how old it really is. Hey it might help ! Needless to say, I personally believe beyond any shadow of doubt they are one in the same ! Brushy Bill Roberts is & was BILLY the kid aka William H. Bonney aka Henry McCarty aka Brushy Bill Roberts ! ! !
@@jojodogface898 He most certainly was. If you have any evidence to the contrary, I'd love to hear it...and please site your sources. Thanks for watching.
@@brushybret The Confessionals Episode 307
@@gregggreasley407The Confessionals Episode 307
@@gregggreasley407 DNA didn't exist at that time.
BRUSHY BIL ROBERTS AND WILLIAM THE KID WERE BORN 20 YEARS APART, KID BORN IN NEW YORK, ROBERTS BORN IN TEXAS. ROBERTS WAS STILL SHITTING HIS DIAPERS WHEN THE KID WAS MURDERED IN 1881. BASICALLY ALL YOU LYING HACKS ARE ACCESSORIES TO A COLD CASE MURDER AFTER THE FACT, COVERING FOR A SICK MURDERER LIKE PAT GARRET! AND YOU CALL YOURSELF A KID FAN! YOUR HERO SHOT HIM IN THE BACK FOR 500$!!
My great great grandmother was Ellen Casey-Moore, sister of Lily Casey-Klasner. They grew up in Lincoln NM and knew William (Billy the Kid) as well as John Chisum, and were close friends with both. Billy was even employed by my 3rd great grandmother Ellen Evaline Shellenbarger-Casey who had a warrant for her arrest in 1881 (by Pat Garrett), the same time Pat supposedly killed Billy. Fast forward to 1984 - I visited my great grandma Cora Moore (Ellen Casey-Moore's daughter in law) who was in a nursing home, and in conversation, she told me that Garrett did not kill Billy, because Billy had come from Lincoln, NM to Toyah, TX with The Casey's in 1882. He offered them protection from indians and bandits because Ellen was a widow, her husband Robert Casey had been gunned down in Lincoln in 1875. Billy stayed with them a short time and left for Mexico. I didn't really believe my great grandma at the time because she had Alzheimer's, but she apparently knew exactly what she was talking about. William Henry Roberts was the real deal. He was Billy the Kid.
Is there anyway to prove to detectives that it actually was him to end the debate?
@@danielcraig1745 no, because commercial interests don't want the truth revealed. Tourism makes a lot of money.
That's do cool to be related to this history amd actually know people that were
Brushy Bill Roberts was born on August 26, 1879.
Billy the Kid was born 23 Nov 1859. Proven fact.
That's a TWENTY years between the two.
Brushy Bill Roberts would've been a baby. Hmmm.
@@davidaston5773 well that makes sense then damn it you ruined the life of Billy the kid for me lmao
I think Pat Garrett let Billy escape since they WERE friends... And just told everyone he killed him so no one would go looking for him... Just my take.
I doubt he let him go. Someone absolutely got killed that night so if it wasn't Billy then Garrett killed the wrong man in the dark. If that happened then he covered it up and said it was Billly.
Of course, they could always exhume the grave and see if it's Billy but they won't. I would imagine the government woukd block that even if his family didn't. Can't have ppls finding out he got away like the Anglin bros n the third dude that escaped Alcatraz.
@@awebb1487put a .45 Long Colt through someone's head, and they'll be more or less unrecognizable. Then, a day or three of decomp, and forget it. It's just a dead guy at that point.
Whether he did or didn't let him go, I have absolutely no idea or even opinion; but I doubt it would be too difficult to pull off.
@ianmedford4855 where they buried the body has flooded a few times over the year apparently so they don't even know where the body actually is erasing any chance to exhume it.
Who did they burry back then
Pat garret killed someone
@@fleadoggreen9062 supposedly he shot a young Mexican guy in the dark or some shit but it's all basically a conspiracy theory.
The reason Roberts was denied authentication was due to the politics behind such a decision. Had the governor actually pardoned Billy, it would be a mark against the state and government. The government needs billy to have died the way he did as a message and a statement about criminals and crime. They cant have a famous outlaw surviving and claming he lived his life out without facing justice.
I like your comments. To add to it, Lincoln County, New Mexico and Hico, Texas, both claim Billy's grave. But, neither want to be disputed or ended due to tourists bringing in all the $$. Hico has a body, Brushy Bill, and Lincoln County doesn't.
It would nullify Pat Garrett's legacy, who is considered THE New Mexico law enforcement hero.
@lawv804 which is exactly why garret let him live. Go live a quiet life let me be a hero and you get to live.
I agree also that there is much about Garret’s story that doesn’t match the forensic evidence. One thing that wasn’t mentioned is that the tin type photo is a mirror image of Billy. The loading gate on the 1873 Winchester is on the wrong side, so his right ear would be the one protruding more. This is where the false notion of Billy being left handed came from.
Yep and it was a running joke in "Young Guns" about him not really being left handed
The 1873 Winchester rifle is 36 inches long. There is no way in hell Billy was 5'8" tall. More like 5'3" or 4"
@@austinstratman1809 I own two 1873 Winchesters. One is the saddle carbine and the other the sport rifle. The saddle gun has a 20” barrel and an overall length of 39”. The sport rifle has a 24” barrel and an overall length of 43”. They made them all the way up to a 36” barrel. The one he stole from the Lincoln county jail when he escaped was a saddle gun with a 20” barrel making it 39” overall. I just went and looked at his rifle in Fort Sumner last week. 39”
@@austinstratman1809 That Winchester the Billy is posed with isn't a rifle. Rather it is a carbine and shorter. Billy was probably around 5'8" and weighted around 140 lbs, maybe a little more.
@@robstanton9215 Read what Fred Nolan wrote about that Winchester that is supposed to be Billy's. It's serial number, which the Sweets don't want you to see is too late to be Billy's gun.
He is Billy the Kid no doubt
Since Billy and Pat Garret were friends it is quite possible that Garret gave Billy a break and came up with a story for the public.
and im pretty sure your on target with that notion.
Two other men were killed by Garrett whom he thought was the Kid. This was about money. Because no proof that it was Billy, the legislature refused to pay the bounty until years later when the new lawmakers decided to pay when no more news of Billy came out.
Which is probably why Garrett left Billy's sight during Billy's time in jail. Garrett could have sent anyone on that task but left one of the most "dangerous" outlaw at the time out of his own supervision, possibly hiding a pistol I. The outhouse which later could have led to his escape killing bell and ollinger.
They were not friends they were acquaintances and that's it. Young guns was not factual
I don’t think they were friends but rather acquaintances. Pat had already captured him once and he escaped making pat look like a fool. He didn’t take any chances on their second encounter. Billy’s gf identified his body and said vile things about Pat and his posse and was clearly distraught over the death of Billy. Plus why would he capture him for hanging once and then let him escape the second to time? He was a lawman doing a job and he killed Billy imo. Either way Brushy Bill isn’t Billy - zero real evidence supporting it anyway.
Can't get enough of shit like this, thanks brother
I am glad there are others like me that believe Billy and Billy Brushy are the same person. I read a book about Billy Brushy and all the things he could remember that was proven to be true.
Excellent job! I really enjoy your research, thank you
Gallegos is beyond reproach he was a hard-working honest man. He knew and loved Billy as a brother and if he said that was Billy you can bet that was Billy.
That’s my family pure breed apaches don’t talk much Marriage to the Pacheco Geronimo Lincoln New Mexico To my great grandmother nana Geronimo
@joesilva9380 is that the sister of Lying geronimo, or the cousin of full of it geronimo, my mom is lol geronimo daughter of wtf geronimo
Pure bred sounds like incest don't it
Billy and Yginio Salizar were great friends. He lived around Lincoln all his life and was a great source of Billy lore. He was nearly killed during the Big Killing that ended the Lincoln County War and Alex McSween's life.
Im so glad your brought up the scars. I feel thats a very important piece of evidence that's often overlooked
I truly appreciate your continued research on Billy The Kid / Brushy Bill Roberts.
This is very interesting… and I’m convinced, they are one and the same..
Doubt that. Brushy has upward slanted almond shaped eyes whereas Billy has more downward droopy eyes.
@@KruglugBadax 😂
You did an outstanding job on compiling the evidence to a point where I am 100% convinced that Brushy Bill Roberts was in fact, Henry McCarthy, a.k.a. Billy the Kid
Billy's name was William Henry McCarty.
Brett, excellent job you've done. That protruding ear has always been known as a "cauliflower" ear. It happens when in the womb, the baby lays on that side for long periods of time with the ear folded a bit. I know, I have one.
Thanks for watching.
If you took a look at most longtime high school, collegiate and serious amateur wrestlers, you would see that they too have cauliflower ears as do many boxers and MMA fighters. It can happen to people who were born with perfectly normal ears.
I heard it comes from getting the shit kicked out of ya.
Thanks for this video. I always thought it made sense and I know for sure, Brushy was Billy.
Brushy IMV doesn't look anything like the kid, but nor did he act like him. Billy had an easy to recognize ready sense of humor and an easy laugh. He loved to sing and perform. Brushy not so. The Kid was a million laughs and he loved telling jokes, Brushy not so.
Yeah, it's pretty convenient how those that deny any possibility of Roberts being the kid, completely glossover and ignore the fact the man was riddled with bullet holes and scars that matched the kid, I mean seriously?
Who the hell when it comes to an ordinary person, is running around with that kind of damage to their body?
Exactly! Thanks for watching.
@@brushybret
Not only that,
what are they really implying here?
That this old man at some point in his life shot himself full holes and created scars just to match Billy the Kid if that's even possible, to wait and try to assume his identity that he first denied?
This is the problem where people refuse to use critical thinking in order to conform to a preconceived bias.
As a retired police officer, i'd be looking real hard at this, because the official narrative does not hold up to scrutiny.
Nobody was going to question the story from Pete Maxwell and Pat Garret.
Pete was a somebody. Biggest rancher in the State and friend to Billy.
More than plausible on that alone.
Always be great discussing this.
Good video.
Many thanks.
Really enjoyed watching this cool video dude 😎
IF he has all the wounds and they were verified, who is going to get shot like that and cut up years ago to say 40 or so years later they were William Henry Bonny? Nobody. The ability to verify all the wounds and have the stories to back them up each and every one on your own body match with historical records should seal the deal alone. Regardless of pictures.
Subscribed! Love this stuff thank you
Thanks for watching.
Brett, your research is amazing.
Thanks for watching.
@@brushybret most welcome.e, subscribed and please keep making.
Have you seen Gore Vidal's Billy The Kid with Val Kilmer as Billy The Kid, and if so, what are your thoughts?
@@thejamesbondshow9754 Yes, I've seen it and I think Val Kilmer did a decent job playing Billy...though Emilio Estevez is still my favorite.
I am intrigued... thank you
My two cents:
Garrett was offered $500 for Billy dead or alive and I believe he made a deal with The Kid to split the money if Billy would just disappear. To make that happen, Garrett killed a man who fit Billy's description and quickly buried the body on site which is possibly the reason there are no photos of The Kid in a pine box as was traditional when one killed an outlaw.
Roberts knew details only Billy would have had knowledge of. To me, Bushy is Billy.
It is odd that was no public display of Billy the Kid after his death. From my understanding, when a notorious outlaw was killed, it was common to display the body to the public.
The famous tintype is distorted, because of age and not being taken care of; a woman who knew him said it actually didn't do Billy justice. If you look at the newer photos that were found of Billy the Kid, he looks very much like those photos of Brushy Bill when he was a young man
The tin type is flipped, Winchesters always have the loading gate on the right, the one in the picture is on the left.
@@wesleycook7687 You are correct, I too have seen much clearer copies of the tin type. The problem with comparing this picture of Billy with any other picture such as Brushy Billy or other pictures of the Kid, Is this one is flipped, it is a mirror image. His handgun should be on his right side, with the rifle held in his left hand.
Excellent analysis!👏 Thank you
Glad you liked it!
The word used when discussing authenticity of an object is provenance, not providence.
I saw an episode of Unsolved History pert-near 20 years ago or more now, that talked about this very subject, and an older gentleman who knew Roberts as a teenager, as they lived in the same town, said that Roberts approached his then boss who the was the owner of a grocery store, and he told the store owner he was Billy the Kid, and when the older gentleman asked his then boss whether or not he believed Brushy's claim his boss said: "Bruce, this old man has got to be somebody. He knows to much about guns, cattle, too much about lawlessness."
The show claimed that Brushy wasn't Billy, due to facial recognition, but did show a photo of Paulita Maxwell's son when he was 18 or 20 years of age, which was ironically about the same amount of time since Billy's alleged death, and the boy's resemblance to Billy the Kid was extraordinary. The boy and Billy looked damn-near like twins! So, the episode theorized that he may have been Billy's son, a claim that has some weight to it, given that Billy and Paulita had an intimate relationship, and it was rumored she was pregnant at the time the kid supposedly met his end, which might explain why Billy returned to Fort Sumner after his escape in the first place.
Back to the subject at hand, even if Brushy wasn't the kid, and I guess there's no way to prove 100% that he was, even though evidence seems to strongly suggest so, Roberts no doubt lived a very colorful life in his youth, to put it mildly, given all the bullet and knife scars he had, scars you don't get, "falling over in church."
Thanks for watching.
There is one thing I would like to point out.
Pete Maxwell was a somebody. The largest ranch owner in New Mexico.
The Lincoln County war.
Pete Maxwell.
Pat Garrett .
And the debate going on today.
It is more than plausible that they wanted the war to be over and give Billy a good out.
Nobody would question Pete nor Pat on the subject.
Testing could have been done years ago too.
Still interesting to discuss.
Good video sir.
That picture was of Telesfor Jaramillo I believe. He had a face very similar to Billy's from the known pics of him they have. It's very interesting.
@newcountryguy - I literally just saw you reply to my comment. And I hope I certainly don't startle you for replying so quickly. But this has always been very interesting to me, and given what you said about the boy, Robberts story, and the stories of both his supporters and opponents, as well as all the history we know of the Kid's life, as well as the history of New Mexico and the events therein, what do you think about all this?
@@thecowboy9698 no problem. I find it piculiar that he and Telesfor look so similar. Especially in the shape of their faces. Coincidence? Maybe. I am not sure we'll ever really know without some kind of proof of what happened to the kid. To me I just don't think Roberts is the kid. I think he was around it and the life but I am not sold on him. I remember that program cause the face specialist kept butchering the pronunciation of the surname Jaramillo. It was driving me nuts. 😂.
If you haven't seen the newly found Silver City photo of Billy the Kid, it will blow your mind! Also likely proves Brushy Bill was actually Billy the Kid.
With everything who've presented here, you've convinced me beyond any doubt, that Brushy Bill was Billy Kid. There's just way to much evidence to suggest otherwise. I'm not very well read on this particular case, but did Brushy Bill leave any kind of Journal? If so, then that would be interesting to read.
Yeah it was him. Excellent video!
I’m becoming more and more convinced that Brushy Bill Roberts was indeed Billy the Kid.
too bad their ear biometrics arent the same. no 2 ears are the same , not even your own 2. thats why they photograph both ears durring a mugshot. the federal agencies use biometrics as a more accurate identifier than your fingerprints and they can do it from afar without your consent. brushy bill robnerts was not william bonnie. there is only one real photo of billy and its a post-mortem photograph. look kinto post mortem photography of the 1800's , namely stand-alone post-mortem photography and look at that photo of him propped up on his rifle, trigger finger missing too!
@@Dr.Maniac They actually did an ear comparison and determined Roberts and the man in the Dedrick Upham Tintype had the same ears. This was mentioned in the UT-Austin study as well as the Study In Ears which was originally cited in Alias Billy the Kid by Morrison & Sonnichsen. What is your source citation that says otherwise. Furthermore, Your postmortem claim regarding the Dedrick - Upham tintype is one of the most absurd claims I've heard in my more than 30 years of researching Billy the Kid...and that says something. So congrats on that.
I agree
@@Dr.Maniac wtf are you talking about? Pat Garrett had that photo of Billy with him before he shot Billy? Also, Billy gave that photo to Paulina, so how can that be a post-mortem photo?
@@KruglugBadax because that is a picture of a deadman! that pretty much makes you full of shit!
Very thorough and very interesting study.
Thank you!
In the tintype with reference to the study did they reverse the image for comparison through the photo recog system?
Sir Brett tnx to all this i like much american history much.. Specially about Billy... Im reading all this an now u sir Hall ur awesome..... It truly always amazes me... Godspeed!
Thanks for watching
William Tunstill ALSO interviewed Ola Everhard.. A direct relative of Jesse James. She knew Jesse AND Brushy Bill. Her testimony is very convincing. She has letters and photos of both. They both did if old age. Jesse 102 and Billy (Brushy) in his 90's.
@@wesleycook7687 The tintype image was copied and published in one of the Police Gazette magazines some weeks before Billy the Kid was killed on July 14, 1881. They didn't have the ability to print from the tintype directly, but an artist's rendition that is an exact duplicate of the tintype image was used. I understand Garrett used it as well in his book with Ash Upson, and he likely had Billy's copy taken from the capture at Stinking Spring. Add that to the provenance of the Dedrick tintype now owned by William Koch and it is a difficult case to make that the image is not Henry McCarty.
Wait what Jesse James was killed at age 34 ....
😂
Jesse James 102... 😂😂😂
For what it is worth, Brushy Bill looks an awful lot like Josie Antrim, Billy's half brother. There is a photo of Josie at an old age and they have many of the same features including the chin and earlobes.
Imagine...... Just imagine if brushy Bill was actually Billy the kid.
Glad to know that that famous pic was deemed misleading by those directly in the know. That pic is unflattering to say the least.
Somebody really needs to use the facial ID technology on Elvis and Pastor Bob Joyce so hopefully it can be proven to some that they are not the same person.
A witness came forward who stated Garrets wife told him at the age of nine some 63 years after the so called killing of Billy the Kid, Garrett and the kid shot a drunk and also shot him in the face so he wasn’t recognizable. I was also confused at the sworn statements of the deputies there the nigh Garrett shot some one. They said the victim had a full beard. Apparently, Billy couldn’t grow a beard.
the town "Rio Doso, New Mexico" is correctly Ruidoso, NM..
lots of people, especially Texans, put the 'rio' pronounciation in front of 'doso'.
It was never 'Rio',
"Ruidoso" means "noisy" - Rio Doso means Doso River.
I'm satisfied. He was Billy. Cheeckbones eye brows ears nose are a match.
Facial recognitions would never have worked on Michael Jackson.
Wow this is fascinating, the UK has recognition tech that identifies an individual's ears like finger prints, I wonder if using that would help authenticate Billy's identity? The ear identification tech is to circumvent suspects in hats iirc.
the one sure pic of Billy shows rounded earlobes...Brushys lobes were attached. Explain that.
@@marnett19531953 I’m not staking a claim on Brushy Bill being Billy the Kid or not, but the tin type of Billy the Kid was damaged and retouched to the point that it distorted some features, so it’s possible they didn’t ‘draw’ his ears back in accurately. Also, in one front-facing photo of Brushy Bill, it deceptively looks possible that his ears weren’t attached, so maybe the same was true in the tintype photo.
@@marnett19531953 the ears in Billy's Picture were painted on cuz the original photo was too old and damaged.
@@marnett19531953 cartlige in ears continues to grow through out your life. hence most older people have larger ears than when younger
Isn’t the tintype reversed ? If so that would make his right ear more protruding
One confusing statement 'protruding Left ear'. The tintype shows the Left ear protruding sure enough but the tintype is reversed, meaning it would be the Right ear. Still the facial similarities are extraordinary.
The hand that holds the riffle - you will notice a ring on his pinky.
The Kid wore a gamblers ring on his Left Pinky.
So if the riffle and pinky ring is on his right then it is reversed.
😊😊😊
You've done some great research. Im new to all this but intrigued by it all. Whats you're response to those who argue that the detached earlobes in the tin type as opposed to attached earlobes of Brushy Bill proves hes not the kid? Sorry if youve answered this elsewhere as I said I'm new to it all, just curious.
This has already been debunked in the University of Texas - Austin Facial Recognition Study. As well as the Study in Ears, which determined the ears were the same. Remember, the original ears in the tintype were almost completely gone and were "retouched", by Noah H. Rose. Only by using special facial recognition equipment and software can the test read underneath Rose's work and measure the shadow or impression of the tintype. This is all detailed in John Meigs report on the condition of the Dedrick-Upham Tintype in the 1980s to the Lincoln County Heritage Trust. All of these online comparisons are done by amateurs using simple programs like photoshop or gimp and are not a reliable tool for making facial recognition comparisons, particularly on grainy, heavily damaged, and distorted, 140-year-old tintypes that have been "retouched". Acclaimed western photo historian, Robert G. McCubbin, has made statements on Noah Rose's "retouching" of the tintype and how it made it completely unrecognizable from its original condition. Thank you for watching.
@@brushybret cool thanks, i suspected something like that. I think you've made a pretty air tight case on all the evidence. Awesome job!
Keep in mind, ears keep growing!!
Sorry for the typo where I said Bushy and not Brushy. By the way, when it is said that Roberts was illiterate he clarified that by stating he was "not a man of literature" meaning he didn't read very often.
Since the features of his face were off due to lighting, is there a more accurate cleaned up photo of the tintype?
I want more than anything to truly believe without a doubt that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid and from the first time I learned about the Kid in the late 80's early 90's starting with Young Guns and then later Young Guns 2 and that's the first time I had ever heard of Brushy Bill and how the Kid was let go by Garrett and it really made perfect sense to me and for the many years after that I held onto the belief that he really was Brushy Bill and because something really grabbed ahold of me to my soul after watching Young Guns 1 at the age of 16 I became obsessed with all things Billy the Kid and I was born and raised in Texas and I learned that Brushy Bill had been to many places in Texas that I had been or lived and all my life as a child my dad would take us to New Mexico on vacation and even before I heard of Billy the Kid I swore I'd live in New Mexico and felt a deep connection to the land here so 20 years ago I moved here to New Mexico and I live in Pecos and I've been to many places that Billy was at and I don't know how to explain it but I feel like he's always been with me somehow and yes I know it sounds insane but I've felt his presence many times throughout my life. But all of that aside from me now living here and hearing other people talk about the mystery surrounding his death and how many people believe that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid I have many doubts and it wasn't easy even considering that I was wrong but I've heard things that are impossible for me to dispute so as much as I hate it I am not totally sure that Brushy Bill is the Kid. And the only real relief is the fact that I'll never really know for sure as the rest of us. So part of me holds onto the belief and the other half lives with doubt. But one thing I know for a fact is Billy the Kid was a good guy in all of the messed up stuff he got caught up in and I don't blame him one bit for doing what he did. To me he was a freedom fighter and fought for what he saw was right. Just because someone wears a badge doesn't make them a good guy. And when I look at these mountains and landscape knowing that Billy the Kid looked at the same thing I can feel what he felt and his spirit still rides these trails and camps in these canyons. And his legend will ride forever through the pages of the history books. ..
Billy got away and lived on
now we have THREE photo's of the kid. one of them is simply amazing.. it's a tin type of billy playing poker with 3 more regulators.. such a astonishing photo man.
Beautiful picture indeed, but I thought it was not sure if it’s Billy?
Was the one of him playing croquet ever authenticated or debunked?
I want to believe Billy made It out and lived a long life... I think If It was believed he had been killed.. Billy would have taken advantage of this from what I have read about him...
I'd be more convinced if I could hear tapes of the actual interviews between Roberts and Morrison. For all we know Morrison could be making all this up, right?
I'm working on this...stay tuned! But in the meantime, several historians and friends of Morrison have stated that they heard the tapes, most notably Phil Rasch, Robert Mullin, Frederic Bean, E.B. Mann, Maurice G. Fulton, JC Dykes, and C.L. Sonnichsen, who used the tapes along with Roberts notebooks to write the book, Alias Billy the Kid. The tapes were also loaned to the Westerners club in Los Angeles for a period of time.
@@brushybret Why aren't these tapes already out? Just curious.
@@bradgaines 2 copies of the interviews were known to exist. The first set of copies were in the possession of Roberts' step-grandson, Bill Allison. These tapes were loaned to researcher Frederic Bean sometime in the late 80s. W.C. Jameson wrote a book about this set of tapes in the book, Billy the Kid: The Lost Interviews. When Bean had the tapes, he noted the poor condition they were in, primarily due to the manner in which they were stored. Nonetheless, he transcribed them and these transcripts served as the premise for the book that he and Jameson collaborated on, The Return of the Outlaw Billy the Kid. Following Allison's death, the tapes along with Roberts' trunk were taken by a family member. And from there no one knows what became of either the tapes or Roberts' trunk. As far as the 2nd set of tapes goes: I found a letter Morrison wrote just a few months before his death revealing the location of the tapes. Right before the pandemic hit in early 2020 I contacted the institution and was told they had several items donated by Morrison, and they believed they might have them and just had to figure out exactly where they were being stored. The pandemic forced us to temporarily pause in our search efforts, but I'm optimistic that sometime this spring or summer I'll be able to locate them...if they still exist. If I do locate them, I will put them up here on youtube.
@@brushybret Were you yet able to locate them Bret? Impatient to hear! LOL
@@blaze3884 I understand and appreciate your impatience. But no, nothing yet, but we're still searching. I'll make an announcement the moment I find them or when our search is exhausted.
in my family...there is a story that may be worthy of mention here....at a young age...9 ish...i was told by a great aunt...that my grgr grandfather was billy the kid....the story begins in italy where a 12 yo...severio molenario...was about to say goodby to his mother and board a ship to go to ney york...to play violin at carnegie hall.he never got to play carnegie....he escaped his abusive handlers....and the story goes to dodge city where a young billy was at about 14...if you watch the movie young guns...it depicts the story well..at the end the screen goes black..before you hear a shot....so its been said that pat garret...gave billy a new life...swearing he was dead....instead of going south to mexico...he went north to a small town east of colorado springs called SIMLA
he went by the name William Tamlin...married mierva mccorkle...had 10 children the oldest...Nora Tamlin married sam ricketts..there were 5 girls and a boy..the oldest Opal Ruth Ricketts...is my fathers mother my father ROBERT KEITH WILSON...me Robert k. wilson jr
i never thought much of this for many years...in 1995 i moved to Hilo Hawaii...not long after...i met a man named George William Tamlin.after speaking to him for over an hr...it donned on me that i had a grgr grandfather with same last name
george answered
i doubt it ...there are no tamlins..he was billy the kid...my jaw dropped...my gr aunt gracie was still alive...she is 20 years younger than opal my gandmother
i called her next day...she was thrilled...i have a pic of her standing next to gramdpa tamlin at about 12 yo...holding his stradivarius violin.this woman and george both swore to me that this is a true story...
so i discount any brushy bill notions....i noticed a few years ago that i have the same lazy eye billy had.i have met other tamlin relatives who it turned out have the same story...so if a hoax..its over a 100 years old...after over 25 years of not making any public comment on this...ive got a feeling 99 percent that this is a true story...so..how to prove it..well theres a billy the kid museum in lincoln new mexico....they say they have locks of hair....so....Dna0
Thank you for sharing, I always enjoy hearing family stories like this. Thanks for watching.
So you are saying that your great great grandfather immigrated from Italy at age 12, was a violin player, moved out west, completely lost any trace of an Italian accent, changed his name multiple times to McCarty, Antrim, and Bonney, became Billy the Kid, escaped death in 1881 but went north to Colorado and lived happily ever after, marrying and having numerous kids? Is that your story, or did I get it wrong? Your narrative was not at all clear as to what transpired between the 12 year old Italian immigrant arriving in America and Pat Garrett claiming he shot and killed Billy the Kid in 1881. Please clarify.
Wasn't there another confirmed picture of Billy the kid,featured on Pawn Stars?or is that the other picture you're talking about?
How and why would Pat Garret or anybody write a book without the worry of Billy might come back? It is weird that someone would write a book about a person that is no longer alive but can come back anytime and proof he was not dead. Can anybody explain?
Exactly.
Yes, fear of arrest. I don't think the statues of limitations runs out on murder. As far as my understanding Brushy came out in 1950 in his 90's. What did he have to lose at that age?
@@eugeniaskelley5194 I was asking in the situation of Pat...not Brushy...
@@jedimaster8505 okay sorry I misunderstood.
Maybe, he and Billy had a secret deal. I shoot someone else, you change the name and stay hidden.
Billy seems to be wearing a pinky ring in the tin type picture. There are photos of Roberts at different ages in his life wearing a pinky ring on the same hand. Something unusual for even most people today to wear. They bounty on Billy wasn't also paid after Garret claimed his death as they're we're indescrepences? For which Garret had to wait 5 years to get paid for, then he was murdered. Probably by the Santa Fe ring. I suspect they didn't believe Garret killed Billy.
I’m glad billy the kid lived a full life and stood up against tyranny. He’s a true patriot and not an “outlaw”.
There is 2 Mccartys on the Rough riders and 1 William Roberts….
Experts say that the famous photo of Billy the Kid is mirrored. He was actually holding the rifle in his left hand. That means that his left ear actually is his right and there for he doesn't have the same looking left ear as Brushy Bill.
I do believe that Brushy Bill Roberts was Billy the kid too.
Well this answers a lot of questions I had. A few vids out said Roberts could've speak spanish and was illiterate, which Billy is said to speak Spanish fluently and could read and write.
I saw one that a witness claimed to have rode to Mexico with Roberts in the early 20th century and said he witnessed Roberts speaking perfect Spanish! I believe he even signed an affidavit!
I've made detailed videos on each of these questions that prove Roberts wasn't illiterate and that he could speak Spanish. The Question of Literacy video is here czcams.com/video/4m8H-TwLbFo/video.html and the Spanish video can be found here. czcams.com/video/oGVw1RMxjWg/video.html Thanks for watching.
The tin type is backwards shows Billy's pistol on his left side. Billy was right handed, and he was holding his rifle with his left hand.
1950 is quite recent so why aren't there modern, accurate pictures post-mortem that detail the wounds and scars, height, build, hands and face?
I think he means photos of Brushy Bill Roberts, depicting all of the alleged scars. One would think that Morrison would have obtained some of those photos and made them available when he published his book
If it's true. Pat shot the wrong guy let Billy cut out and put the other guy in the ground. They had a body. So someone got killed.
I find these videos very convincing. My question is why would the traditional history people not want to at least consider this might be real. Do you have a theory why they reject it? Would it impact them financially? What is their motive?
I'm going to go into this in a future video, but the short answer is money. New Mexico, primarily Ft. Sumner and Lincoln, rely heavily on tourism dollars. Thanks for watching.
I have almost 58 years experience in eyesight analysis of people and photos. I can tell you with a high degree of certainty the known photo of billy and photo of brushy bill are 2 different people. Interesting video nonetheless. Well done
So you don't believe the facial recognition study? Have you seen the recently authenticated Silver City photo of Billy? A facial recognition expert with the New York City Police determined it matched Roberts as well. Dan Edwards has a video out on it. Thanks for watching.
@@brushybret ears are completely wrong. These are two different people.
@@MattF12765 The person that promotes the ear theory is citing a manipulated photograph. The photograph was 'retouched" by a man by the name of Noah Rose. This is all detailed in John Meigs report to the Lincoln County Heritage Trust in the 1980s and has been discussed by acclaimed western photograph historian Robert McCubbin. Most of the ears were no longer visible in the original tintype, only the very top portion of one of the ears was semi-visible.
Billy had ear lobes. Brushy did not, therefore he cannot be the Kid.
@@stevemccarty6384 The gentleman that promotes the ear theory is using a manipulated photo. The photo was altered by a man by the name of Noah Rose. In the original tintype, the ear lobes were not visible at all. In fact, only the top of one ear was visible. This is all detailed in John Meigs report to the Lincoln County Heritage Trust in the 1980s and has been discussed by acclaimed western photograph historian Robert McCubbin.
Billy and Jessie James both escaped death and were good friends
On the facial recognition part,something seems funny. The photo apparently was distorted by age and not being kept well. Then it was touched up and altered to have changed the jawline. If so then how can this match up with Brushy Bill be accurate?
The way I understand it, the program that was used pixelated the image to a point that it was able to measure the facial features of the original image that was imprinted in the tintype, under the altered image. Facial recognition software is able to do some amazing things and why it's able to identify individuals who have had plastic surgery or wearing a disguise. I'm not a facial recognition expert, but that's the way it was explained to me. Thanks for watching.
This is well researched and I appreciate the time taken to debunk the claims that Roberts was illiterate and his alleged claims of being a member of the James-Younger gang, but at the end of the day I still don't believe him to be Billy the Kid. The idea of Billy quietly retiring in 1881 at the height of his manhunt just seems too much for me to believe. I'm not going to call Roberts a liar, as it seems as if he genuinely believed himself to be Billy. But until a full autopsy of both the Fort Sumner corpse and Roberts is complete with DNA analysis it's just an interesting rumor to me
It's amazing that the one pic of Billy shows his earlobes rounded and pics of Brushy Bill's are attached to the jaw...hmmm
You mean the picture that was heavily manipulated by Rose? Remember, the ears were almost completely distorted before Rose "retouched it". I discuss this in the video.
@@brushybret we will never know for sure
Find William Tunstills 4-Hour interview with Ola Eberhard!! She was related and around Jesse and Billy. Brushy was Billy.
Looks like Billy was wearing a pinkie ring on his right hand. I wonder if any of the other potential pictures show the same ring. I doubt he would have routinely taken it off.
Hi.....it's a gamblers ring he has on, there is another picture of Henry wearing it .
The war on Lincoln County.. That Sir Bushy Bill roberts narrates in an interview is truly sum it all... Sir Robert Bushy Bill truly the Kid... No Doubt....
I'llHe was. Lincoln will always have its history wether the kid died in Sumner or not. Would like to see Robert's receive his pardon and his name cleared. I believe he and the others fought on the side of what was right against what was wrong, and he should be remember that way.
How come the caudr death of The Kid hasn’t been changed in the records yet?
Can you confirm Brushy’s age because there is the census in Arkansas that says he was born in 1879 which then makes it impossible for him to be the kid.
The similarities are truly astonishing but the age issue needs clearing up
Thanks
I actually already did a video debunking the 1879 birthdate using census, marriage, employment, and genealogical records, as well as showing a magazine and newspaper article that announces Brushy Bill Roberts as the winner of a horse riding competition in 1888. Furthermore, Oliver P. Roberts' wife Annie Barnes was still alive in the 1980s and was interviewed by Kenneth Osthimer of the Billy the Kid Research Committee, during which he showed her several photographs of Brushy Bill taken at various times of his life. She responded, she had no idea who the man pictured was, but he most certainly wasn't Oliver P. Roberts. Here is a link to my video, thanks for watching. czcams.com/video/EK9oRxqmee0/video.html
@@brushybret 100% agree now after doing more research and watching your videos that there is to many similarities not to be him. Good work 👍🏻
@@ifiwas195 Brushy Bill Roberts was Born December 31,1859 as William Henry Roberts in Lincoln County,NM. He may have been using an alias "William McCarthy". Garrett claimed Billy The Kid was born in NYC and that his real name was William H. Bonney.
The problem with the picture is it was before I got shot in the jaw and the top of my head. I had years of facial reconstructive surgery and that is why I looked different from the tin type.
Ok dumb question
Did anyone show brushy bill the famous photo of Billy the kid and what did he say about it ! The photo where he is holding the rifle !
He mentions it in Brushy Bill Roberts In His Own Words: The Outlaw Years Part 3... The Death of Charlie Bowdre. Here is a link to the video. czcams.com/video/jzdwa0uJuRs/video.html
Brushy is not Billy the Kid. My ancestors are from the Lincoln, Capitan area and Billy fathered a daughter with a distant cousin of mine from Pacheco. There’s a lot more to this than any of you will ever know.
Probly billy was drunk when that " damn picture" was taken..the big mistery that if its true that billy died..why is it that theres no picture of his corpse when he died..he was a famous outlaw back then..
Brushy can't be Billy the Kid- 'cause he all grow't up- so, He's Billy the MAN!
Hey mane da brotha doing a good job and da voice be smooth
I think brushy bill Roberts was billy the kid he all the scars looked like him ,he even had his gun and surviving friends \family that verified that he was Billy the Kid I mean come on what more do you want lol I think he was and for him to fool everyone again and live to be an old timer was so awesome r.i.p. Billy
Silver City photo is supposed new evidence of a crystal clear photo of The Kid
Why not this kind of tests at the pictures of Jesse James and Frank Dalton? They could match or be debunked and striped off on the list of that theory..
It's a match
The tintype is what i Question. Like is that actually the Billy The Kid in that tintype??
As for Brushy and Billy's eyes, people think of hetrochromia as only being too different coloured eyes, but having multiple colors in the iris is also hetrochromia. I have green eyes with flecks of brown and what I'm told, looks like gold in the sunlight; and remember less than 1% of people have hetrochromia, so it is very rare.
I'd like to see a list of all the evidence and similarities that support Robert's claim, because the more I learn about him the more I realise just how long that list would be!
two*
Good points on the eyes. I plan on doing a summary in the future after I complete the Brushy Bill Roberts: In His Own Words chapters. Thanks for watching.
@@brushybret np, definitely looking forward to the rest of this series
I'm not sure about Billy and Brushy Bill. No photos of Brushy's scars?
The scars were documented by both his doctor and the man who prepared his body for burial. Thanks for watching.
I wonder how many different faces they compared if it was 1 and 3 faces that matched Billy. How many would match if u ran 10
It was actually more than a hundred total faces that were compared as a control and only the photos of Roberts that matched.
@@brushybret dam .brushy odds just improved
I learned that billy the kid wrote letters to the govenor, while brushy bill was illeterate, so he coudnt write
I already did a video debunking this. czcams.com/video/4m8H-TwLbFo/video.html
Movie shows doc wrote letter billy dictated. Movie shows a guy looking for billy while standing face to face with him. Movie shows "Dick's picture" in newspaper......
Even today, the Bin laden death, was kinda not so public as it should have been.
We looked for him and suddam for years. They never left yheir backyards.....odd things have happened in recent times
So what did brushy bill die from. Old age?
Heart attack.
DNA from Billy's belongings compared to Brushy's exhumed remains?
I've read elsewhere that Brushy Bill was illiterate and scrappy in Spanish (though secondary language skills can get rusty). Anyone address this please as the narrator states differently.
I've made detailed videos on each of these claims. Here is a link to the video addressing Roberts' ability to speak Spanish: czcams.com/video/oGVw1RMxjWg/video.html and here is a link to the video addressing Roberts' and Billy the Kid's literacy: czcams.com/video/4m8H-TwLbFo/video.html thanks for watching.
Is it any proof that this person ever existed,or was it a story put together of many persons ?
Much indicates that it was the same as the story of Robin Hood which was a story put together by
many persons.
Love how they dismiss his tale without any evidence
It's possible a lot of outlaws did survive it was easy to disappear but we'll never actually know