@@tylerskiss totally agree. He seemed really focused on her every single time - and nobody else. I haven’t watched any of his content, but from this one show he was immensely unlikeable and I will not watch future content he’s in.
@@TheOppl Az and Melonie were saying dumb things and they both got called out in the chat for it, nothing that was said was nasty it was rightfully calling out bad takes.
Yeah it's kinda like after things like Rings of Power, Willow, Velma, Halo, She-Hulk, ect that's come out in the last year even hamburger looks like steak tartare.
The purity of having Joel and Ellie alone is *really* important to the "Reluctant Surrogate Parent" trope. That's why the story works. It's a classic theme. Aliens, Mandalorian, Up, Bad Batch, Jurassic Park... I'm sure I'm missing a bunch more but that's just the top of my head. It's important that Tess not be present for too long for that reason.
i havne't played the game but i hope tess is there for all of season 1 cos i fucking love the actress ana torv lol. she was mind blowingly good in fringe and probably one of the bet parts of that show :)
@@SeraphsWitness yea I know. I'm in that place where I hope she stays and they are able to make the story work well at the same time lol. Sort of like having my cake and eating it too kinda thing :)
Regarding Ellie's reaction to the guard's death, in the game, it did effect her. She takes a breath and says she thought they'd tie up the guards. And later, when she kills the hunter trying to drown Joel, she also takes a moment and even says she feels sick. But in the show, like they said, she looks excited by Joel killing the guard in an emotional outburst, which is not how Joel acts. Even at the end of the game, what he does may be emotionally driven, but it still doesn't come off that way. Staying vague to avoid potentially spoiling a 10 year old game.
@@mister-pinkman yes but he still remains, overall, stoic. His choice is based on emotion and reason, and he’s in control of his emotions for the most part aside from a few moments.
@@jessicadavis8865 Stoic? Not quite.. As he’s carrying Ellie he’s saying “it’s alright baby girl” and you can tell by his voice that he’s on the verge of tears, trying to hold it together. And when he first shoots Marlene, the look of disappointment in himself is very present. He literally *gasps* right after the shot. Marlene then says “please let me go” and Joel says “you’d just go after her”, then when he shoots her again in the head, it quickly fades to black so we don’t see his immediate reaction. He visibly questions himself internally whether he did the right thing or not. In the end of part 2 he says he would do it all over again, and I do believe him, but during the moment he definitely had a hard time making that choice - understandably so.
@@mister-pinkman on the verge of tears, but not *in* tears, desperately holding it together because he needs to hold it together - pretty stoic imo; he's forging on despite his emotions, not because of a lack of emotion
@@Baiswith stoic means someone who can go through hardships without showing emotion or feelings. He visibly and audibly shows those feelings even if he doesn’t break down in tears. My original point is; what Joel does is driven by emotion, and that it does in fact come off that way.
One thing I'll say about Joel still being the authority figure in the series was when Tess realizes Ellie is infected, the way she called out to Joel was very desperate and delivered in a way that gave me the impression she was asking him "What do we do?". I noticed the stripping back of his authority too but I think in the 3 biggest moments of someone having to take charge they put the ball in Joel's court as decision maker 1 - Shouting at Sarah to get in truck and not hesitating to kill the old woman with Tommy asking Joel "What are we doing Joel?" 2 - Tommy not knowing what to do in the truck when the people were in the street. Joel shouts at him and beats the dash board and says decisively "fuck em, roll over em". 3 - Tess desperately calling to Joel at the end. I think there's still enough there for his character to be respected as the leader or at least on equal terms with Tess. Its also implied by Robert that Joel is actually the one they are afraid of, not Tess herself.
It's not implied. Both Tess and Ribert outright state as fact that Robert is terrified of Joel. It kinda sounds like Tess is more of the diplomat while Joel is the decisive, ruthless, get-it-done guy.
Yeah but when Tess tells him to do something Joel from the show does it without even arguing. In the game Joel was more combative and didn't go along easily. He though for himself. He didn't have an easy relationship with Tess in the game while on the show he does. Those things (and others that I'm not mentioning here) make him and the relationship less nuanced imo and also makes him look like a lap dog compared to the game iteration.
@@RabiaDeConejo Tess orders Joel around in the game too. The only reason he even takes Ellie with him after the statehouse meet up goes wrong is because of Tess
@@SuperMicklovin yeah ik, I'm just saying he didn't go in easily. In the game she was bossy and he was too (that was what made their dynamic interesting) but she had the connections so he had to go along because he had no choice. He argued with her. He seemed to think about his options and if he had to do something he did it with a pissed off attitude that he carried throughout. I don't see that here. It seems more watered down and their relationship less nuanced and like some of the people in this video say, less ambiguous to the viewer. The ambiguous nature of their relationship made it seem more rocky and unpredictable in the game too.
To be honest, in the game I got the impression that Joel was Tess's guard dog and essentially just followed her orders without caring much about the jobs. In the show she seems way more vulnerable.
I vote that mauler should make a 30second review series on his channel. It's in such stark contrast to his usual content and i was dying of laughter throughout !
Funny that AZ thought that Marlene was the only character as good as their counter part from the game, because it was the same woman, Merle Dandridge who voiced Marlene in the games.
The actors for these games did a bit more than just lend their voices to the role. The actors literally acted out all the scenes and character animations from the game in the studio. In fact there's this really fun outtake of them recording the game's ending where Marlene's actress suddenly starts singing her lines and Troy Baker goes along with it, turning the scene into an impromptu musical. It's hilarious!
@@ItalianoYMexicano This is the same reason I thought bringing back Temuera Morrison for Boba Fett was a bad choice. No offense to him, but he was quite frankly... too old and fat for the role.
Something I’d not picked up on is that the fungus is spread through products made with flour. All through the opening scenes you see Joel and his family narrowly avoiding, by chance, food made with flour. They don’t eat the pancakes, they don’t eat the cake, they don’t eat the sandwiches…
@@TheImapotato it’s not obvious. In fact at no point is the connection explicitly made. It’s just a consistent detail that keeps coming up in the natural dialogue you might pick up on in a second viewing
Wait i thought the opener was f'n fantastic... how do you not like that opener? Having a little chunk of the first episode with Sarah really gave the audience a little time to attach themselves to her and thinking she was in for the long haul. I absolutely adored watching the slow burn of the collapse of society, felt real.
Hard to please everyone especially when the game IP is so beloved by many. Haven't played the game I agree with your analysis. It was fun to watch the world crumble and for the show to succeed gamers will need to accept changes are necessary to draw in a larger audience.
@andrewhicks982 not really. You could make a 1 to 1 recreation of the game, and it would be phenomenal. If the original story could capture the hearts of all gamers, then it could do the same on TV. It's not like the cutsceneses in game were somehow influenced or changed by gameplay. They could literally have just chopped the cutscenes and pieced them together while showing the general areas that the characters travel through in between with some scattered zombie fights.
@@just_delta-2589 if they made it 1:1 for the game, what would even be the point of bringing it to TV? I like that they've hit the main events from the game but also did things differently. Change isn't always bad, especially if it's respectful to the source material. And not everyone liked TLOU and it's opening, so that's a bit of a stretch.
For me, every added scene detracted from the source content significantly. Breakfast: Painted Joel as an ignorant, unreliable, hypocritical slob, and Sarah as being superior to him and even condescending. Painful to watch. Watch repair: Shopman's wife seems to know what's going on, but nontheless throws a 12yo child out into the street without informing them. Writers wanted ominous tension, but couldn't be bothered to write it believably. Neighbors: Cardboard-cutout 'crazy white elderly Christian fundamentalists', as viewed from the PoV of, seemingly, every Hollywood screenwriter. At least the shot of the dog staring nervously at grandma was good imo. First zombie encounter: Any rational person would have walked back inside their house and locked the doors after the dog ran away. But the writers wanted to show the neighbors' deaths, so they make supposedly-smart Sarah wander inside their house, uninvited, in the middle of the night, in spite of all the bright-red 'danger' flags. Adding salt to this would, the creepy scene from the game that takes place inside Joel/Sarah's house, which this scene replaces, was better in every sense, and didn't need to rely on gore-scares. The rest of the pre-timeskip stuff was pretty much yoinked directly from the game.
@@CozyRogers god I hope you're not one of those who look for the "message" even where ain't none.coz all the things you posted apart from the zombie part I don't remember seeing it that way.
It should be noted that while Neil Druckman did come up with the concept of the Last of Us and he is credited with the writing, he was NOT the only creative writer in the game. There were others who kept Neil's narcissism under control. I forget the name of one, but the other was Amy Henig, who was the lead writer for Uncharted1-2-3 as well as Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen & other games. And both of these people helped form the overall story of the game along with Neil. And it was very telling that when Neil was given complete control over the company, these two other writers were cast out, and that is when the stories of Naughty Dog's games (Last of Us Part 2 & Uncharted 4 took a more woke turn. And Neil is very instrumental with the HBO show. So anything flawed with the show or its charters is most likely Neil's doing. But understand that the Last of Us Part 1 videogame was created by a team, including Amy Henig, who kept Neil's woke narcissism under check & were later ousted by Neil. That is why the story & characters are much better in the game, because there were others at ND to help with the writing who were actual veteran writers, whereas Neil is a hack pretender.
In the game, Tess does boss Joel around a lot because in many ways she forms part of the tutorial. Joel even makes a 'you're kinda bossy today comment', which came across as a fourth wall breaking moment. Despite this, Tess was a very likeable and competent character. The writers never put Joel down in order to elavate her. They were a great partnership, and her death was equally as sad as Sarah's imo. Back when the game first game out, I was hoping that we'd get some earlier adventures with Tess and Tommy as dlc.
18:53 I agree with MauLer, I can guess that Bella Ramsey is trying to portray being scared to the point of being speechless, but the game handled Ellie's reaction so much better: She swears because she was scared, then delivers the line "I thought we were just gonna hold them up or something." making the audience empathize with what she just went through when she needs to sit down to compose herself.
The ellie in this is different, more hardened and cruel. The people behind the episode stated that she got a sick sense of pleasure watching Joel punish that guy who she thought deserved it
@@Himonly414 honestly, i didnt like this change, but maybe it would be a better transition to ellie's character in the sequel. maybe get her to have a more darker outlook that would make that inevitable change more natural
@@andoi9292 well I believe it makes sense. I feel that the games version of ellie being shocked by violence seems slightly overblown due to what happened between her and Riley where Ellie personally had to kill to live. So why would she be so shocked by death. I actually prefer the shows version of her reaction, being more as Maizin said "activated" by the EXTENT of Joel's violence rather than violence itself.
The show runners addressed that scene specifically and what their intent was, I just don’t think it landed as well as the game. Essentially it was supposed to contrast Sarah’s reaction to Joel killing the old lady.
As Drinker has said, Hollywood can't stand a stoic man. Joel in the games is a broken man with a heart of stone. Nearly devoid of any emotion. Which is what makes him so cold, ruthless and dangerous. Joel in the show is being portrayed more like an attack dog. Yes, Robert is afraid of Joel but his discussion with Tess is more "If I let you go, you're going call your dog off, right?" To which Tess reassures Robert "Don't worry. He does what he's told." Joel in the game is a man who had his life thrown into absolute chaos in one night. Game Joel is a bit controlling as a result. Which is what causes the initial tension with him and Ellie, who is a young, rebellious teen. Their overall character arc is of Joel being softened by Ellie, becoming a father again and Ellie being harded by Joel, going from being a naive girl into a confident and capable woman. Game Joel wouldn't lose control and beat that soldier like a wild animal. Game Joel would make a cold and calculated decision to kill him because he has no other choice. The show is alright but the game is objectively better based on this alone.
Thing is, the whole surviving population would have hardened due to the suffering they endured and the lost ones they lost over the past 20 years while civilization crumbled around them. Instead we get the gate guards running out to the boy without even having their guns drawn, while the female guard talked to the boy so sweetly as if she hasn't had to kill hundreds if not thousands of people for being infected like they did to the boy. So many things in this show were inconsistent and nonsensical.
It's literally the opposite of that. She has to lie to Joel to keep him from going off and killing him on his own. The very thing Robert was afraid of.
@@whisky3k294 Ok to be fair, the talking to the child normally was more strategic. They were obviously going to put him down so the last thing they need is for him to resist and make delivering the drug difficult. It’s essentially putting his guard down so that he doesn’t resist being put down.
As a guy who didn’t play the first game I was utterly shocked when Joel’s daughter dies. I knew she was going to die at some point but I didn’t know it was first episode because first 30 mins was from her perspective, I would say that’s a very creative directing in my book; making audience believe that character we are following is the main character and killing her off.
@@Tyler_W eh idk... The Walking Dead's pilot was better and didn't waste our time this much. If you could compare it to anything, it would have to be what I'd believe it's based/inspired by, Children of Men. That movie is barely 20 minutes longer than this first episode of TLOU, but it's infinitely more economical with the storytelling and actually delivers some impressive action.
Part of the problem with a lot of modern writing is that characters are often not shown to have any emotion at all unless it's an emotional outburst. Likewise with Joel and the soldier. The only time strong action is taken is if it's a response to trauma? It's 2 decades after the beginning of the apocalypse. Everybody is traumatized. Something the games emphasized often.
For me I very much enjoy "living" in the world a bit longer before the break down. I love that aspect of shows like this. I love watching the beginning episodes of something like Battlestar Galactica or Walking Dead over and over.
I thought it was really interesting how they kinda introduce the cordyceps through yeast or baked goods... the cookies the old neighbour eats and she turns first, Sarah doesn't eat the cookies so she doesn't get infected, Joel and Sarah were gonna eat pancakes but eat eggs instead, Joel not picking up the cake... it's cool to think the fungus spread through yeast products, also kinda makes sense. Joel also mentions being on that one diet (I forget what it's called) where you don't eat yeast. So now it's easy to understand why they didn't get infected.
In the original cannon the Fireflies were Ecoterrorists who killed the enitre planet because global warming or some bullshit. Itd make senae to use baked goods as a delivery system because they already have mold in them, and can feed other types mold
I think the slow start made it work in the same way that the first episode of Chernobyl worked - this insidious, incremental sense of horror. People not really reacting to it because they can't see/understand the whole picture of the disaster while the audience understands that it's complete and total.
I kinda felt like Tess was the brains and Joel was the brawn in the video game she had all the connections and laid out the plans. Then Joel helped her make those plans happen.
I think the buildup to the outbreak was done exceptionally well here. That scene with the old lady twitching in the background while the camera being focussed on sarah was very suspenseful, even though you knew what was going to happen.
@tristandevlin6667 how is it a waste of time, though? The reason you could just throw everyone right into the mix in the game is because you already care about Sarah by virtue of the fact you're playing as her. Her death is tragic because Joel lost his daughter, yes, but it's as shocking as it was because we got invested in her by experiencing the unraveling of society right along with her through our controlling of her. In a noninteractive medium, you don't just get that audience investment right off the bat. You actually have to introduce and get people invested in a character, and that requires more time and attention. Every adaptation if everything requires translation and changes because each medium of storytelling has its own rules. Very few if any stories can just be 100% copy-pasted 1:1.
I thought it was well done as too, it definitely kept me watching. It reminded me a little of the first ten minutes of the Dawn of the Dead remake, just on a little smaller scale.
This is the one change I'm not sure how much I'll like. Bill was originally portrayed as the crazy hermit guy who set booby traps around his entire town until it is gradually revealed that he's not the loner we thought he was. He had a partner and got jaded when things didn't work out. You get a hint of that in the dialog, but you learn more through optional environmental storytelling. It's more subtle. In the series, it looks like they're just telling a more straightforward story about how Bill and Frank meet and eventually fall out. It could be better in execution than I anticipate, but I prefer subtlety to something straightforward and on the nose. If it is the latter, it'll definitely be because it's a gay relationship. I'm intrigued enough to gladly wait and see, though.
This is what I like to see. Fans debating the pros and cons of a new show. No outrage at how bad it is, but just enjoying the show even if it's not perfect.
@@hristol7537 I mean, following parts very closely _could_ be considered respectful, but then why race-swap the characters? It seems like they're just taking what they know works, but still wanting to arbitrarily change things for brownie points. This was almost a feature length film, 80 minutes... and it had approximately 1.5 action scenes.
@@g.e.o.r.g.e... I have no issue with race swapping when it comes to modern american characters, when that's not used to push a political narrative, of course.
It's a mixed response that makes sense given what happened in the 2nd game and the slew of terrible TV adaptations we've been subjected to lately. Seems that in different ways they're trying to keep an open mind, but are afraid to like it and get disappointed again.
Bella Ramsey is like Matt Smith. Not unattractive, but I'd say her features are atypical for what Hollywood usually uses. When you spend so much time looking at actors and actresses it can take you out of the story because you focus on the features of the person portraying the character instead of the character themselves.
In the game, I always thought that Tess was the dominant one in that relationship. Partly because it was tutorial time, but Tess did all the bargaining, all the wheeling and dealing, as Joel we were always following Tess, and then later on Marlene. The time Joel walks through the bus on his way to see Robert, and some dude stops him, then Tess says "He's with me" or words to that effect, and the other guy backs off "Sorry Tess" Long story short, I don't think the show made him any more subservient, than the game portrayed him to be at the start.
AZ was trying really hard to find some kind of wokeizm in the show. I'm a huge fan of the game and I still don't have anything but some nitpicks against the show. Yes, a few things are a bit different but as long as they respect the source material that shouldn't be a problem to anyone.
100% agree I think they were just scratching for something to be angry about. Tess was clearly the "boss" in their relationship in the game, Joel was basically her muscle. He wasn't her servant by any means, and I didn't get that feeling from the show either
That was because they knew Tess and didn't know Joel, not because Tess was in charge. Joel argues with Tess a lot in the game, he doesn't just do as she says.
At the end of this video what The Little Platoon says about the first episode is absolutely spot on almost word for word what I have been saying and thinking about it as someone who has also not played the game. I've just seen this type of show done SO many times before as he said.
I’ve played the games (and really enjoyed them) but am not infected with the fungus that has the fanboys obsessive with their precious IP.. the show has been really good so far
I havent seen anyone mention the dialogue of the soldier that kills Sarah. In the game he has a line over the radio where he says something along the lines of"But, sir...There's a little girl." and that line was removed from the show and the soldier looked perfectly content gunning down Joel and his daughter. It could be nothing, it could be a slight against the humanity, or lackthereof with the military. I just thought it was weird.
The soldier does apologize to Joel before Tommy guns him down. So they changed it a little bit, because Sarah is also a little bit older than in the game. But to say that he seemed content about it, isn't true. Like he literally says "I'm sorry".
They definitely remove that line, but you definitely also get the same emotional intent fron the way the soldier's lines are delivered. He actually gets surprised by what his commanding officer is presumably telling him to do, and his last "yes, sir" was delivered in a very different and almost sad tone of voice compared to his previous ones. It's less explicit in the show, but you can infer the exact same intent if you pay attention to how he delivers his lines, not to mention he apologizes afterward.
In the show the soldier said: I'm sorry? Repeat?? And then he goes on to Yes sir, Yes sir and a last Yes Sir where his voice almost changes to a little angery, discontent with what he have to do. And when he says I'm sorry to Joel his voice shivers.
It's because the actress is like 19 and no joke they prob felt it was offensive to refer to her as "a little girl". The scene in the game is much better because it makes it more clear what is about to happen and having him stop to apologize before shooting Joel makes it seem entirely too convenient for Tommy's sudden arrival.
I agree with the concept of Tess having to go at some point. The focus is the relationship between Joel and Ellie. If you hang out with two friends at the same time all the time, you won't have the chance to build a deeper relationship with just one of them. It's just the way it is.
Yes but they f up, in the game Tess wanted to do the mission and Joel didn't but he agreed because he wanted to protect Tess, he never cared about Ellie, and then he wanted to get rid of her because Ellie was the reason that Tess was gone! That's why Ellie left so now you have a problem with the story!
@@user-go1sl6rd7u I haven’t watched the episode yet but never underestimate the power of flashbacks. I still have them for Vietnam and I was barely 12 when it ended and many thousands of miles away. I have my truth and it’s very elastic.
Overall, I liked the pilot. Sure. There are slight differences and additional scenes/stories, but that’s needed for a live action adaptation. We don’t want an exact carbon copy either, nor do we want an adaptation that strays so far away from the game (ahem The Witcher) it becomes something else entirely. So I thought they did an excellent job handling it. So far. For both the fans of the game and for newcomers. I’m definitely tuning in for more. Also, I disagree with AZ on Pedro and Bella “cosplaying” as the characters since I thought they did a great job portraying their version of the characters that doesn’t seem something else entirely, but hey. We all have our own opinions, and for that, I respect it.
Yeah they are making solid points but I feel like if the game didn’t exist and they have something to draw comparisons from they would be talking about how amazing the episode is. Cause it’s great. I agree with everything you said. This is a good way to tell a similar story for new and old people and to do that they need to tweak the characters personalities to fit. There’s nothing wrong with that. Looking forward to more.
Agreed on pretty much all of it. I'm still not 100% sold on Lady Mormont because I can't help but see her that way, but she definitely delivers a great performance and nails the wide-eyed spitfire attitude of the character. The one thing we don't quite get is the character's innocence. She definitely seems to have a harder edge in the show, but we don't get enough of her to really get a full read on her, I think.
I'm agreeing with Melonie a lot here. Rags seems to question her a lot for apparently no reason. She's going based off of the game, so if you don't understand that, then stop asking about it after she's answered the same question essentially 3 times already.
The game isn't the show. All that matters to Mauler and Co. is internal consistency. They're basing their opinions on what they are presented within the show.
At the start of the flash forward in the game, Joel IS rather passive. He just wants to do what he has to do to survive. At first, he does not even want to deal with Tess's scheme. And he really is just the "muscle" at first, while Tess kind of pushes him into a leadership role, particularly after she was bit and knew she was on a time limit
Younger older relationship Tess was still busy with smuggling stuff & politics joel on other hand gotten tired & just want to do "orders" Especially knowing joel did some thing REAL bad when his brother leave him
Yeah I think that’s what they were going for and maybe fumbled it. But Joel definitely was more passive in the game then they are making him out to be.
@tripleaarcade he really was. He doesn't even take agency for himself until Tess dies and he's finally convinced Ellie's the real deal. In the show he actually has more agency now because he has a personal reason to go west beyond Tess and Marlene telling him to do it and Joel just doing it to get paid. Up to Tess dying, he's just there to get the job done. He doesn't really start making proactive decisions until he and Ellie are out on the road alone together.
The first episode was loved for obvious reasons: It has a very sweet and tragic little story between Joel and his daughter, directed and acted very well. Then we move on on the timeline and we witness a very convincing post-apocalyptic background. But I am much more cautious for the next episodes. Even more so that I have a huge issue right now with the casting of Ellie. Not only she has zero charisma, but the way Ellie is portrayed here is angry, dark, agressive... missing completely the mark on the charming girl that would break the armor of the survivor Joel, leading him eventually to his hail mary move at the end of the 1st game. I won't speak about season 2 and Gigantor, I am still trying to convince myself the 2nd game doesn't exist.
No, Ellie is exactly like this, has a smart mouth, has attitude and can stand up for herself. Bella played her really well and I was convinced, even sounded like her a few times. I feel people still have a problem with how she looks, like get over that at this point. Also daddy Joel will live on lmao
@@TheNightman. Right but he wrote both games, just because you have a problem with it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. So you know more than the person that wrote Joel, gotcha
I love the portray of Ellie a lot actually. Bella Ramsey convinced me in the first episode. She has a presence I love. Ramsey nailed the serious and quirky said of Ellie to a teeth. I appreciate her different take on the character in another format (streaming show). On the other hand, Pedro Pascal has to prove over the next episodes that he can really convey all sides of Joel convincingly. Bella Ramsey may not look like the video game template, but she is a well established actress. How exactly do you determine that she has no charisma?
haven’t seen the show yet but from what i remember of playing it myself and having seen of the game recently(i watched a streamer beat it just yesterday) Joel doesn’t lose his cool and that’s why he IS intimidating. all the brutal stuff he does, he does with a clear mind and intent. i love the fact that by the end of the game you can really question wether you were a bad guy all along or not. i hope the show will keep that ambiguity. that ending is also the reason i won’t play part 2, wether it’s good or bad.Joel and Ellie’s story wrapped up perfectly to me, if they wanted to make another game they should have come up with interesting new characters in that universe, then i would have tried it.
The most faithful video game adaptation ever and of course they are gonna bitch about it. The game has 2 and half hours of cinematic storytelling, what are they supposed to do with the other 8 hours? Have Joel running around silently killing npcs?
@@equivalentexchangeisalie5726 Pretty sure they've confirmed that this season ends where the first game ends. But I can see them stretch the 2nd game into at least 2 seasons. I would be disappointed if they keep Joel just because of Pedro Pascal or because of the supposed 'backlash' from the 2nd game got.
This is probably the most level headed approach to analyzing the show we can hope for. Good job voicing your concerns while remaining clear that it’s too early to judge the material as a whole.
Drinker does much better with mauler around to reign him in when he starts drifting into the political echo chamber. Rags has been a voice of reason too.
Watch the interviews with the cast and the producers after the credits. Their outlook on what Ellie is feeling in the last scene is completely unhinged.
i love the difference of opinions and insight from different perspectives. i personally loved the first episode. after hearing some very valid points about the dichotomy of the game and the show, i was able to further comb through the scenes and see some of things to look for as the show develops.
In the game Tess has to actively convince Joel to take Ellie. He's not particularly amenable to the idea, especially after being fucked around by the Fireflies.
Not really. He listened to the deal. He had no objections to it. But Tess didn't want to do shit before she had seen the goods. The part where Joel had to be convinced, barely, was watching over Ellie, alone, while Tess was looking at the weapons. Then Joel took Ellie to the north tunnel safe house and waited. Tess comes late at night saying she saw the merchandise, and that it was A LOT, then asks Joel: Wanna do this? And he answers Yes. And he answers quckly without hesitation. The parts you're thinking of, you're remembering as being more convincing then it was, and it was later, we've not gotten that far in the story. Should be in EP2 though.
I agree. This has to be the best and most direct respect to source material but at same time having the ability to add things that increase the emotional attachment or world building. Not perfect but damn. Way way wayyy better than most
26:11 I think if you have this dynamic then later when Joel gets hurt and ellie goes out on her own as well as gets kid napped, that emotion that gets played with really well of her needing to grow up but still just being a little girl goes completely out of the window, because she’s shown more emotional maturity towards the world they are living in. Essentially it won’t make since for her to act the way she does later or feel what she does later, because she didn’t feel any of that previously.
Neil outright said that seeing Joel kill that guy ‘activated’ Ellie. Whatever that means. My money's on him trying to retroactively foreshadow her actions in the sequel. This and the show having tendrils instead of spores are massive red flags to me. It seems that Neii is resurrecting ideas he agreed to reject back when he was co-director of the first game in an attempt to make the HBO setting his own. The last time he did that was the revenge plot in the sequel, and look how that turned out.
The tendrils was needed cause if the spores was the main force for infection everybody would be in masks all the time. We already have seen first hand with our own pandemic that we suffered through that so many people didn't want to wear masks for reasons. In the game they can get away with it for gameplay reasons, in a TV show they can't do that. Besides the tendrils make the infected that more creepy.
Some people are brilliant and don't need producers, Neil is not one of those people. His background is not as a writer, he was a software developer. I'm one too and I though I could probably throw a story together I would never be so arrogant as to expect it to be published without someone reviewing it and providing improvements.
@@izumolee6714 That's not true. You'd only be at risk of infection in low flow area's with a high concentration of spores due to how your innate immune system works. Just as we see in the game.
I think what they meant with 'activated' was that Ellie has never had anyone jump on her defense quite as ferocious as Joel did especially when it's something Ellie feels is justified and she finds she likes that feeling. Even if Joel did not beat the guard for her. But she doesn't know that.
This is one of those cases where I need the season to end before making any definitive judgment. There are some good moments and some moments that have me concerned, some changes that worked and others that didn’t. But the biggest factor is figuring what they’re changing to better fit for TV, versus what they’re changing to try and justify what’s to come (Part II)
You need to eat the entire pile of cow shit before you can tell its cow shit? Even if its got a candy filling it aint worth eating through cow shit to get there dude
I’d like to mention that when the complaint about “slow buildup then everything happens at once” happened because they adjusted the rules of how the infection spread. It takes 5-15 minutes if bitten in the neck or face, rather than 2-3 days in the game. I think it fits the scenario better.
@@ProxyDoug Sam and Henry are definitely in the show. I have a strong feeling that their fates are going to be changed in some capacity, im not sure how much or to what. Sam got bitten in the leg in the game, which according to the new rules set by the show, would give him roughly 12-24 hours before he turned. Both characters are shown in the trailer, I just dont think they'll have the exact same deaths as in the game.
Melanie: on point Az: on point Rags: clueless. TLoU was beautifully done and they had a perfect story to work with to start, when they start meddling and add and taking away they are not being true to the source and don't actually care about are real representation of a TV version of a game and more concerned with changing characters to suit some message.
In the game, I got the impression that tess and Joel were equal but tess was more senior and therefore had more decision making power. The show did a decent job portraying that. It sounds like yalls biggest gripe with Joel's characterisation is from a 2 second flash back that could also be seen not as a trigger moment but him remembering the last time he was in that situation and what he could have done diifferent. This would imply that he was in control the entire time. He looks to be unhinged because that's what you have to do in a street fight and even more so when the stakes are life or death.
In the game I always assumed there was an initial wave of spores that swept across the country which is how so many people got infected at once. If it's just through the bite I don't see how it could spread so quickly.
It’s shown that the fungus spreads through flour. Joel and Sarah manage to avoid the flour products as the outbreak happens. They eat eggs instead of pancakes, Joel forgets to buy a b’day cake. Sarah doesn’t eat any of the cookies baked by the old lady ( the first victim we see turned ). And Joel saying he’s on an Atkins diet, which cuts out cakes, cookies and bread etc. I missed some of the hints on the first watch and the second watch confirmed the theory.
@@mrsickukxx1332So long story short, the infection was already MASSIVELY spread through yeast products, which people consumed on a massive scale and became ticking time bombs, hence why out of nowhere their bodies just go haywire from the cordyceps
The way the explain it makes no sense really as there would have been signs way before a global infection and not everyone gets flour from the same place. It was dumb to use a fungus who soresd with spores but change it to a function like one that had existed and spread through flour but hasn't been an issue for centuries now. It also didnt spread so far that it destroyed the world or even got close. A few tens of thousands died before they realized what was going on. That is at best what would have happened in this show. Should have kept the spores because that is the only logical way it would spread so fast and so wide to the point they couldn't stop it.
@@WayStedYou They’re explaining how it happened in the SHOW since the person was wondering how it could spread without spores! No, it doesn’t happen because of yeast in the game, we’re aware, it was a way for them to try and show a different method of infection to avoid having everyone simply wear gas masks the whole time.
37:58 I will say this is a hard battle that this show-and really any zombie show- has to face now, because if I’m not mistaken the game came out during the zombie craze we were having and when the walking dead was just starting out, and now the walking dead has explored a lot of the nihilism that that world evokes and the last of us is kind of in that same vein, so it will be interesting to see if this show can still capture everyone’s interest while still being after a show that’s already walked this ground. Just makes me wish it would have come out as a show sooner, than now. Especially before they made part two.
It’s not about how unlikable Bella is, it’s about how much Joel cares about Tess. I didn’t buy Joel ditching Tess because up until that point, Ellie was just a snarky, annoying kid that might slow Joel down. But I did buy Joel respecting Tess’ last wish. That’s what will matter then.
tbh bella was probably the biggest miscast for me . i didnt even care about joels daughter being black cause she was likable atleast . bella just looks opposite of what ellie is tbh .
I understand that this is an adaptation of a game and fans of the game would like elements of the game in the storyline - for example the neck break pace of the intro of the game vs the slow burn intro of the series. However, what fans of the game need to realise is that there are a lot of people (including myself) who didn't play the game. So we need to properly introduced to the characters and what makes them tick. And I think the writer/director team has done that pretty well. I like the show.
You’re missing out then. The game will almost certainly be superior to the show. Up until the second season that is when it goes to shit if they follow the 2nd game
I'd like to watch it just to see it put together. They filmed a bunch two blocks up from me, then at the old gangbanger bar around the corner, and they blocked off the bus turnaround on the way to work for a week. I got to see the sets and it was really neat how fast they put them together and how good they looked. So it'd be kinda cool to see them in context. And in the trailer they're crossing the old engine bridge. My friends and me used to ride across that thing almost every day when we were little so that definately stuck out. That's really all that interests me about this.
I think the discussion about the world building is really about a "true game adaption" versus expanding on the already established content. I believe Az would prefer a game adaptation and Mauler doesn't mind exploring the world some more (e.g. back stories). What Az (and me too) fear is that too much focus on world building will make the show slow, boring, and possibly add unnecessary content.
I prefer exploration. There's a difference between slow burn and actually being slow. The firmer is "slow" in the sense that it isn't afraid to let you soak in it so to speak, but it's still heading in a particular direction at a deliberate pace, whereas something that's just slow is meandering with no sense of direction or pace and wasting time on things that don't actually matter. I very much think the show is and will continue to be the former.
I do think the extended time with Sarah is important in the show due to the lack of us playing as her, I'm not sure how else to explain it but playing as a character typically gives you a connection to them. Hard to replicate that feeling.
We do play as Sarah though. Admittedly it's only for a little bit and we don't do anything other than walk around and investigate, but I still felt it had some impact.
In a video game, we need to be given something to do in a timely matter, hence the early action makes sense. I think it's vital they gave us time with Sarah (from her pov even) in the tv-show, because now we knew her when she does die, may even care about her and can empathize with how hard that hits Joel. Had you skipped that, we'd have had: here's Joel, he has a daughter, now she's dead. Ok. Anyway, 20 years later... Also, I never played the game but heard most about it in the controversy surrounding part 2. Since part of that controversy surrounds Joel's actions at the end, I sat down and watched the "cutscene-movie" from the game (thank you to those people that put those up on youtube). Believe you me that Tess has a major leading role there too. So much so that had that come out today i'd probably have sighed a little and thought "yeah yeah, strong woman taking charge, how predictably boring". Lastly, for what it's worth, I saw a Making of the Last of Us, where one of the writers, Mazin, said Ellie was "activated" by Joel's actions. She was supposed to actually kinda LIKE that someone would defend her like that, in opposition to the character of Sarah, who was shocked when Joel beat the neighbour to death. So that's probably what she was supposed to convey with that look : ) I gotta say my first impression is decent to good, and I'll be seeing where it goes.
As a fellow Texan, and playing the game, being very appreciative of how they handled Joel, Tess, etc I completely agree with the lady’s pov. It does feel like “intentionally taking guns out” Hollywood seems so damn scared of firearms being in any sort of positive light, or as a social norm…ALL THE TIME (of course we know why) A big reason I’ve never really felt Hollywood has ever gotten Texas “right” in, well, most aspects
The did the same thing with Uncharted, and NOBODY talked about it. Nathan Drake literally never takes a gun into battle. He randomly picks one up in the last fight; one that a bad guy drops. He fires a few shots then loses it or something. How the heck can you make an Uncharted movie and not have Nathan Drake firing guns? It's like a Bond movie without a car.
@@oblivionsa7973 exactly. This is exactly it. It’s not that f-ing hard to understand. We don’t stop making automobiles & the sheer number of deaths from wrecks I mean- Yeah we all know “what it is” & why some people “reeee!!” about firearms
There's a behind-the-scenes bit after the episode in which it's explained that the reason why Ellie was looking at Joel the way she was when he was killing that guy was because she was fascinated by the idea of someone protecting her like that.
I actually really liked the slow pacing of the show to start, mostly because of how intense and jump-right-in in the game had been. I was like on the edge of my seat waiting, and they even teased me one or twice by showing the girls room.
Good to see such different view points from everyone on the first episode of the last of us. But don't forget about MauLer and Rags they also liked season 1 Mandolorian and Wanda vision a couple of episodes in but that change when the final episodes came out and it became very bad so I will wait until more episodes come out before going to watch the show.
I didn't play the game and when his daughter died it hit me hard. I think in them adding his daughter in, making you think she'll survive, gives Joel more character depth. I feel for his.
@@GlennYarwood either they remain faithful to the source material and inevitably adapt the disaster that is The Last of Us 2, or change things and take a risk of making it worse AND shitting on the source material.
Yeah especially since I watched the IGN review, and the reviewer made a point of saying how it has some episodes that are "great for LGBT(etc.) Representation" or something like that. Bit of a paraphrase. So that makes me nervous about how crazy they're going to get with THE MESSAGE.
Maybe it's just me but Melonie seems very biased in her take for everything especially Joel's characterization. Tess was bossy even in the video games and I'd argue even more so than the show. In the show when it came to making decisions and being assertive it was mostly Joel all along. When the old lady attacks its Joel who puts her down. Tommy even asks him "What are we doing?". In the truck it's Joel making the decision to leave the family in need of help. Joel decides where they would go. And he is the one who was ok with Tommy to run over people to get out. In 2023 even both Robert and Tess make it clear the one he was afraid of was Joel. I think Melonie simply chose to ignore all this for some reason.
Melonie sucks as a person in general. I used to follow her on twitter cuz she was friends with drinker and all them, but shes constantly hating on something or someone for little to no reason and picking fights with nobodies. Shes the "only god can judge me" type.
Picking up on the division on opinion about the opening sequence between the video game's fast pace and the TV show's slower simmer - both approaches are tailored to do the same thing based on the expectations of their respective medium. The video game worked because it quickly hooked you into the idea that Sarah would be a sidekick character to the player-controlled main protagonist, so her death is something of a shock. The TV show also worked because it focused on Sarah for a comparatively long time, giving you the natural expectation that should we be a long-term character in the show, again making her death a shock, but still introducing you to the world and the actual main protagonist from a more oblique angle. It's an intelligent piece of adaptive reworking, rather than slavishly sticking exactly to the video game shot-for-shot.
Joel’s original motivation for agreeing to take Ellie was so that they could recover their product (weapons) from the Fireflies. They shoehorned in the plot line of him trying to get to Tommy when originally Joel was estranged from his brother.
I actually prefer this change. It makes more sense that he would want to risk leaving the safety of the quarantine zone to find his brother given that he's the only family he has left.
@@daigneauray7087 Yes but that has a knock on effect with the fact that Joel wants nothing to do with the Fireflies and that Tommy had joined them. It’s more satisfying of a reunion when you know there’s this deep resentment and pride that Joel has to break through when they reunite.
@@cheddulous Perhaps, but I also feel that with HBO's interpretation of Joel, they portray him as being much closer to his brother than in the game (i.e. we actually see them interact before the outbreak). Joel also states that he blames Marlene more for persuading Tommy to join the Fireflies than for Tommy abandoning him in Boston.
I think throughout the season/ seasons they will try to villify joels’ actions to have him killed off and make it a good thing, whereas we were all angry at his dogshit death.
I like that everybody thats says Joel is bad for killing the fireflies forgets they did it to themselves. They backed from their end of the deal and kicked joel on his ass without giving him the guns thet promised him. Joel didn't nearly die getting Ellie to them just to get fucked in the end. If he didn't get his guns he wouldn't be leaving empty handed
@@mariobadia4553 It's not that Joel is bad for killing the Fireflies. It's that Joel is bad for denying humanity the cure. Totally different things. The Fireflies are the main villains in the story, but their goal was to use Ellie in order to figure out her immunity and then mass produce it. (something FEDRA probably could have done much quicker but anyhoo...) It's Joel not being able to let something other than his own narcissistic priorities go and put humanity first that makes him the bad guy.
@@nimz8521 they killed a bunch immune people in the attempt and failed miserably(yes there were other immune people before that incredibly incompetent doctor got his hands on them and killed them). For all we know being immune is genetic and they were wiping a segment of the population capable of rebuilding humanity. Besides how can a cure be made in a absolutely filthy Rundown hospital that is barely even running off a old Generator? I mean did you see the state of that place? it was overgrown and had mold growing everywhere. That's not even talkin about how you can't cure fungus infection and even if you could you need a 100-percent sterile environment with a completely functional facility not a mold, roach, and rat infested run-down Hospital that struggles to keep the power on. That's not even going into the fact that they couldn't even protect it if one determined man was enough to break through the guards and kill one of their most important members. An actual organized attack from one of the other factions would be able to easily steal the cure for themselves if they can't even stop one man
Exactly. Druckmann didn't have full creative control of the first game so its not how he would've wanted the story to go. Now he is in control and wants to retroactively change things to justify his sequel.
I liked the slow intro. Other zombie shows did the 'Out of the traps' introductions before so it was good they did the Shaun of the Dead slow burn intro.
Spores didn't happen everywhere in the game. The Ellie reveal happened just like it did in the game. That moment was actually very similar in the show.
The panel must not have played The Last of Us recently. Tess was always the brains and Joel was the brute in the game. She was the negotiator for trading rations for Roberts location and convinced Joel to transport Ellie to Boston’s capital building. In addition she will convince Joel to continue on the journey because Ellie is the key to stopping the infections.
Yeah, Joel didn't really have much agency of his own until it was just him and Ellie. The show actually gives him more agency because it actually gives him a personal reason to go across the country and take the route they do for more reasons than just "Marlene and Tess told me to do it," because he actually wants to find Tommy. I'm guessing when things go belly up in the next episode and Joel has to commit to going cross country, he's gonna take Ellie along the path he was gonna go himself anyway amd then figure put what to do with her when he finds Tommy.
@whadayadoin3300 I don't really think it matters either way since I don't have a problem with mixing some elements up when the core of the relationshop is basically the same, but they're still a partnership. She's only "in charge" in the sense that she's the forward face of the operation, the brains to Joel's brawn that she uses to threaten enemies. It's still a partnership because she isn't just telling him what to do. They actually discuss what happened and what to do next, and it was Joel who put his foot down and said he needed the car battery, military truck and weapons, so they decide to go after Robert.
I generally liked it, and it felt pretty faithful to the source material. I do have a concern that they will undervalue Joel. Tess and Sarah were definitely the most compelling characters. I kind of wish they were just making this a mini-series so as to avoid bloat and filler scenes.
As somebody who played the game a couple times, I was very skeptical, but the first few minutes ultimately hooked me in a way I never expected, and I remained invested throughout most of it.
Same, and I agree - I'm hooked... Those complaining about characters looking different need to chill. For example, I'm sure there's a girl out there that looks exactly like Ellie - but can she act?
I have to agree with the sentiment that Joel is too passive. Having him snap and show how "scary" he is in that one moment honestly just takes away form his character. From gameplay to cutscenes, Joel is shown to have a mostly stoic/calm mind of his own. Even during his interrogation scene in the game, he does not let out a howl or scream of animalistic rage. He IS IN CONTROL. I've looked into the second episode, and, man, the "fights" have me utterly disappointed. From the first preview on E3 up to its release, I always saw The Last of Us as a story about humanity being more a threat than the infection/infected... and I'm surprised that Joel and Tess and Ellie have yet to encounter an actual direct brawl/shootout with humans. And, no, I don't count that one scene where Joel gets all mad and snaps. I'm sick and tired of seeing men be portrayed as loose cannons. And I don't get why or how Rags and MauLer don't seem to see or address this as a problem in the narrative thus far.
Melonie Mac saying Joel in the show has no "edge" is weird when we see him threaten a random guy just for talking to him and selling drugs on the side while also everyone in town seems to fear pissing him off in any way and very much respecting his abilities for example you Marlene in the scene where shes been shot and she sees Joel and you can tell shes very relieved to see him because she knows hes a good guy and can get the job done
And to @thelittleplatoon I have a friend that hasn't played the game and I'm waiting for him to tell me what he thinks of it as a newcomer, so I'm glad you brought that up yourself. I've played the game multiple times having bought the original release on day one so I'm looking forward to seeing what another 'uninitiated' viewer of the show (so to speak) thinks of it. I wish I could binge the series in one, then play the game without any prior knowledge myself. I am curious as to how I'd view it this much later on too, as a more jaded and cynical adult rather than being in my early twenties playing a game with a much-more-well-written-than usual narrative driven video game than I'm used to seeing that probably took me by surprise which would have added to my enjoyment tinted the rise further in the glasses at the time and retrospectively. I'm enjoying the extra bits, or the bloat as you noted but I'm also aware that I've immersed myself in the world by playing it prior to the show rather than just viewing so any extra context for me is a win on my nerdy gland. (Stupid, forgiving nerdy gland...) Hope you're also doing a solo video on this and look forward to it if you are!
Part of the issues with this are down to the Ludonarrative dissonance (the differnece betwen how you play a character and how they are in the cutscenes) thats why we have to have more explanation because if they acted like the game they would generally be a quiet sneeky psycopath. alot of the actual gamepaly scenes will have been removed and the storytelling in them will be added to the equivilent of extra cutscenes to keep the narative flow.
I love the discussion around Joel's agency, and it is very different from the game, but I think in the show their going for a more dead inside, apathetic Joel here at the start who will have to take more and more agency and find himself again as the world forces him to protect Ellie. I think Ellie not being horrified at Joel's beating of the guard was evidence of her encouraging his more savage behavior by being accepting of it. I hope at least that's part of the ark that they are setting up, only time will tell but I hope it's the start of a great show. It can't possibly be worse than the fucking halo show adaptation which just took a steamy dump on the chest of my childhood.
Its hard to say how much of a character arc he will have since he's going to get golf clubbed to death in season 2. Maybe they're making him more unlikable to justify his death better? Who knows honestly.
Joel is portrayed as bottled up grief and rage. It explodes when he goes off on the guard. I like they are keeping with the dark, survivalist Joel, frankly he is being portrayed as more overtly dark here than in the game ("I'll break your jaw"; Robert's open terror of Joel's wrath).
Yea that's what I was thinking. Rather than the hardened, crass, and brutal man, they're portraying the Joel who has all but given up. I don't know if that will work better, but we'll see.
As usual, Mauler is the most objective one, being able to take the episode in as it is. Melonie and AZ seem to be very aware of what kind of people wrote this show... We know where this show is gonna go, lbr.
Well what do you think now? The show ended and it managed to stay faithful majority of it. Or did you just let two people who believe they “know what kind of people” made this show get to your head, when the person who made you the game itself worked on this? To you, it sounded like you were hoping this show would be terrible but in the end, I think a lot of people can agree that this show actually was good.
@Silas Hurd the reason people were wary was because of Druckmann, not in spite of him. He also made TLOU2, and I believe everyone on this panel loathes that game.
For those who like the longer opening of the TV show, remember the openings of The Thing. Lack of character and setting establishment, but it grabs your attention. Grabbing your attention is the goal. You say, I'm in. Let's see where this goes.
Ellie was scanned and detected as infected by the armed guard in the game, which was the sole reason for killing him as he was going to shoot her presumably. It's just they had more time to explain it then it seems. But it was very close to the end of the episode and so it felt rushed.
Tess is contracted for 6 episodes, but it doesn't necessarily mean she's in 6 episodes. She just has to be available for them. She could only be in 3 or 4. Just fyi
They weren’t just gun runners in the game. in the first scene after the time jump with Tess, Joel mentions pills they were selling to a client. But the way Joel is portrayed in the show doesn’t really seem like a guy who would risk his life to be a smuggler in a quarantine zone. Like they really talked about Joel being a force more then showing it with any screen time or dialogue from Joel himself.
I’m making a prediction now about the Tess situation where it was mentioned “she should have like 10 minutes left”. When Joel and Tess are discussing the plan outside after locking Ellie in the room momentarily, I vaguely heard Bill mentioned which makes me think they are going to change the order so Tess will be alive for the Bill sequence, THEN they will go to the capitol building where Tess will die.
Hearing people respectfully arguing with each other is so refreshing.
Really? I thought Rags was unreasonably nasty towards Melody.
Melanie. Damn autocorrect
@@tylerskiss totally agree. He seemed really focused on her every single time - and nobody else. I haven’t watched any of his content, but from this one show he was immensely unlikeable and I will not watch future content he’s in.
@@TheOppl Az and Melonie were saying dumb things and they both got called out in the chat for it, nothing that was said was nasty it was rightfully calling out bad takes.
@@tylerskiss dude just edit your comment..🙄
This should be used in the teaser/trailer now. "It's not that bad!", "Its better then other things out there!". The times we live in....
🤣😄
@AssJuiceCookies
That's what you do, exactly...
Shame this is the new standard lmao “not that bad”
Yeah it's kinda like after things like Rings of Power, Willow, Velma, Halo, She-Hulk, ect that's come out in the last year even hamburger looks like steak tartare.
@@SodapopKevin well put. Couldn’t agree more.
The purity of having Joel and Ellie alone is *really* important to the "Reluctant Surrogate Parent" trope. That's why the story works. It's a classic theme. Aliens, Mandalorian, Up, Bad Batch, Jurassic Park... I'm sure I'm missing a bunch more but that's just the top of my head.
It's important that Tess not be present for too long for that reason.
i havne't played the game but i hope tess is there for all of season 1 cos i fucking love the actress ana torv lol. she was mind blowingly good in fringe and probably one of the bet parts of that show :)
@@xyr3s she's not part of the primary storyline though. It's important for Joel and Ellie to be alone for it to work.
@@SeraphsWitness yea I know. I'm in that place where I hope she stays and they are able to make the story work well at the same time lol. Sort of like having my cake and eating it too kinda thing :)
@@xyr3s Tess is going to be in the show probably only for 2-3 episodes.
@@xyr3s I'd be surprised if that worked. But we'll see
Regarding Ellie's reaction to the guard's death, in the game, it did effect her. She takes a breath and says she thought they'd tie up the guards. And later, when she kills the hunter trying to drown Joel, she also takes a moment and even says she feels sick. But in the show, like they said, she looks excited by Joel killing the guard in an emotional outburst, which is not how Joel acts. Even at the end of the game, what he does may be emotionally driven, but it still doesn't come off that way. Staying vague to avoid potentially spoiling a 10 year old game.
What Joel does in the end of the game definitely does come off as emotionally driven.
@@mister-pinkman yes but he still remains, overall, stoic. His choice is based on emotion and reason, and he’s in control of his emotions for the most part aside from a few moments.
@@jessicadavis8865 Stoic? Not quite.. As he’s carrying Ellie he’s saying “it’s alright baby girl” and you can tell by his voice that he’s on the verge of tears, trying to hold it together. And when he first shoots Marlene, the look of disappointment in himself is very present. He literally *gasps* right after the shot. Marlene then says “please let me go” and Joel says “you’d just go after her”, then when he shoots her again in the head, it quickly fades to black so we don’t see his immediate reaction. He visibly questions himself internally whether he did the right thing or not. In the end of part 2 he says he would do it all over again, and I do believe him, but during the moment he definitely had a hard time making that choice - understandably so.
@@mister-pinkman on the verge of tears, but not *in* tears, desperately holding it together because he needs to hold it together - pretty stoic imo; he's forging on despite his emotions, not because of a lack of emotion
@@Baiswith stoic means someone who can go through hardships without showing emotion or feelings. He visibly and audibly shows those feelings even if he doesn’t break down in tears. My original point is; what Joel does is driven by emotion, and that it does in fact come off that way.
Pedro Pascal: "This child is good!" *switches Grogu with Lyanna Mormont* "But it could be better!"
I grew up surrounded by children
132 people in the entire world understood that reference
"And Why Shouldn't It be?"
@@eyedunno8462 Oh come on, say what you will about WW84, but it does have its moments (such as iconic lines like that one)
Truly one of the movies of all times
best quote Drinker "I have made the longman short"
It's just cold outside!
Frosk does that regularly
One thing I'll say about Joel still being the authority figure in the series was when Tess realizes Ellie is infected, the way she called out to Joel was very desperate and delivered in a way that gave me the impression she was asking him "What do we do?". I noticed the stripping back of his authority too but I think in the 3 biggest moments of someone having to take charge they put the ball in Joel's court as decision maker
1 - Shouting at Sarah to get in truck and not hesitating to kill the old woman with Tommy asking Joel "What are we doing Joel?"
2 - Tommy not knowing what to do in the truck when the people were in the street. Joel shouts at him and beats the dash board and says decisively "fuck em, roll over em".
3 - Tess desperately calling to Joel at the end.
I think there's still enough there for his character to be respected as the leader or at least on equal terms with Tess.
Its also implied by Robert that Joel is actually the one they are afraid of, not Tess herself.
It's not implied. Both Tess and Ribert outright state as fact that Robert is terrified of Joel. It kinda sounds like Tess is more of the diplomat while Joel is the decisive, ruthless, get-it-done guy.
Yeah but when Tess tells him to do something Joel from the show does it without even arguing. In the game Joel was more combative and didn't go along easily. He though for himself. He didn't have an easy relationship with Tess in the game while on the show he does. Those things (and others that I'm not mentioning here) make him and the relationship less nuanced imo and also makes him look like a lap dog compared to the game iteration.
@@RabiaDeConejo Tess orders Joel around in the game too. The only reason he even takes Ellie with him after the statehouse meet up goes wrong is because of Tess
@@SuperMicklovin yeah ik, I'm just saying he didn't go in easily. In the game she was bossy and he was too (that was what made their dynamic interesting) but she had the connections so he had to go along because he had no choice. He argued with her. He seemed to think about his options and if he had to do something he did it with a pissed off attitude that he carried throughout. I don't see that here. It seems more watered down and their relationship less nuanced and like some of the people in this video say, less ambiguous to the viewer. The ambiguous nature of their relationship made it seem more rocky and unpredictable in the game too.
To be honest, in the game I got the impression that Joel was Tess's guard dog and essentially just followed her orders without caring much about the jobs. In the show she seems way more vulnerable.
I vote that mauler should make a 30second review series on his channel.
It's in such stark contrast to his usual content and i was dying of laughter throughout !
Ooh, something useful to do with youtube Shorts.
Funny that AZ thought that Marlene was the only character as good as their counter part from the game, because it was the same woman, Merle Dandridge who voiced Marlene in the games.
Yeah that is why she felt so authentic. And she is a dope actress
That's great
The actors for these games did a bit more than just lend their voices to the role. The actors literally acted out all the scenes and character animations from the game in the studio. In fact there's this really fun outtake of them recording the game's ending where Marlene's actress suddenly starts singing her lines and Troy Baker goes along with it, turning the scene into an impromptu musical. It's hilarious!
@@ItalianoYMexicano This is the same reason I thought bringing back Temuera Morrison for Boba Fett was a bad choice. No offense to him, but he was quite frankly... too old and fat for the role.
@@ItalianoYMexicanoAgreed about Ellie, but not casting the voice actress for Tess in this show is a mistake
Something I’d not picked up on is that the fungus is spread through products made with flour. All through the opening scenes you see Joel and his family narrowly avoiding, by chance, food made with flour. They don’t eat the pancakes, they don’t eat the cake, they don’t eat the sandwiches…
Well there goes the bigot sandwiches 🥪 lol
I've had ergot poisoning once - not fun
Did they really foreshadow that obviously?
It’s definitely hinted at. I noticed it a lot more during the second viewing.
@@TheImapotato it’s not obvious. In fact at no point is the connection explicitly made. It’s just a consistent detail that keeps coming up in the natural dialogue you might pick up on in a second viewing
Wait i thought the opener was f'n fantastic... how do you not like that opener? Having a little chunk of the first episode with Sarah really gave the audience a little time to attach themselves to her and thinking she was in for the long haul. I absolutely adored watching the slow burn of the collapse of society, felt real.
Hard to please everyone especially when the game IP is so beloved by many. Haven't played the game I agree with your analysis. It was fun to watch the world crumble and for the show to succeed gamers will need to accept changes are necessary to draw in a larger audience.
@andrewhicks982 not really. You could make a 1 to 1 recreation of the game, and it would be phenomenal. If the original story could capture the hearts of all gamers, then it could do the same on TV.
It's not like the cutsceneses in game were somehow influenced or changed by gameplay. They could literally have just chopped the cutscenes and pieced them together while showing the general areas that the characters travel through in between with some scattered zombie fights.
@@just_delta-2589 if they made it 1:1 for the game, what would even be the point of bringing it to TV? I like that they've hit the main events from the game but also did things differently. Change isn't always bad, especially if it's respectful to the source material.
And not everyone liked TLOU and it's opening, so that's a bit of a stretch.
For me, every added scene detracted from the source content significantly.
Breakfast: Painted Joel as an ignorant, unreliable, hypocritical slob, and Sarah as being superior to him and even condescending. Painful to watch.
Watch repair: Shopman's wife seems to know what's going on, but nontheless throws a 12yo child out into the street without informing them. Writers wanted ominous tension, but couldn't be bothered to write it believably.
Neighbors: Cardboard-cutout 'crazy white elderly Christian fundamentalists', as viewed from the PoV of, seemingly, every Hollywood screenwriter. At least the shot of the dog staring nervously at grandma was good imo.
First zombie encounter: Any rational person would have walked back inside their house and locked the doors after the dog ran away. But the writers wanted to show the neighbors' deaths, so they make supposedly-smart Sarah wander inside their house, uninvited, in the middle of the night, in spite of all the bright-red 'danger' flags. Adding salt to this would, the creepy scene from the game that takes place inside Joel/Sarah's house, which this scene replaces, was better in every sense, and didn't need to rely on gore-scares.
The rest of the pre-timeskip stuff was pretty much yoinked directly from the game.
@@CozyRogers god I hope you're not one of those who look for the "message" even where ain't none.coz all the things you posted apart from the zombie part I don't remember seeing it that way.
It should be noted that while Neil Druckman did come up with the concept of the Last of Us and he is credited with the writing, he was NOT the only creative writer in the game. There were others who kept Neil's narcissism under control. I forget the name of one, but the other was Amy Henig, who was the lead writer for Uncharted1-2-3 as well as Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen & other games. And both of these people helped form the overall story of the game along with Neil. And it was very telling that when Neil was given complete control over the company, these two other writers were cast out, and that is when the stories of Naughty Dog's games (Last of Us Part 2 & Uncharted 4 took a more woke turn. And Neil is very instrumental with the HBO show. So anything flawed with the show or its charters is most likely Neil's doing. But understand that the Last of Us Part 1 videogame was created by a team, including Amy Henig, who kept Neil's woke narcissism under check & were later ousted by Neil. That is why the story & characters are much better in the game, because there were others at ND to help with the writing who were actual veteran writers, whereas Neil is a hack pretender.
Oh cmon. Maybe he’s changed over the years for the better. He’s doing the show and look how it’s been, at least to me, it’s worked out
@@silashurd3597 now explain “The Last of Us 2”.
@@nhagan001 I meant after the disaster that was TLOU2
Cuckman on his own made the last of us 2 🚩 🚩 🚩
@@silashurd3597 I think this is another example of more competent people keeping Neil in line.
In the game, Tess does boss Joel around a lot because in many ways she forms part of the tutorial. Joel even makes a 'you're kinda bossy today comment', which came across as a fourth wall breaking moment. Despite this, Tess was a very likeable and competent character. The writers never put Joel down in order to elavate her. They were a great partnership, and her death was equally as sad as Sarah's imo. Back when the game first game out, I was hoping that we'd get some earlier adventures with Tess and Tommy as dlc.
weird they didnt hire the actual Tess actress.
@@purefoldnz3070 the same weird reason they didn't hire troy baker as joel & ashley johnson as ellie
Doesn't work that way & not same skill set
@@somechinesedude5466 But didn't they hire the voice actress for Marlene?
@@taylorco64 she’s not Ellie in the games
@@somechinesedude5466 what do you mean? The actor for Tess came from TV. Totally the same skill set.
18:53 I agree with MauLer, I can guess that Bella Ramsey is trying to portray being scared to the point of being speechless, but the game handled Ellie's reaction so much better:
She swears because she was scared, then delivers the line "I thought we were just gonna hold them up or something." making the audience empathize with what she just went through when she needs to sit down to compose herself.
The ellie in this is different, more hardened and cruel. The people behind the episode stated that she got a sick sense of pleasure watching Joel punish that guy who she thought deserved it
@@Himonly414 Thanks for pointing that out, I went and watched the 'Inside the Episode' afterwards.
@@Himonly414 honestly, i didnt like this change, but maybe it would be a better transition to ellie's character in the sequel. maybe get her to have a more darker outlook that would make that inevitable change more natural
@@andoi9292 well I believe it makes sense. I feel that the games version of ellie being shocked by violence seems slightly overblown due to what happened between her and Riley where Ellie personally had to kill to live. So why would she be so shocked by death.
I actually prefer the shows version of her reaction, being more as Maizin said "activated" by the EXTENT of Joel's violence rather than violence itself.
The show runners addressed that scene specifically and what their intent was, I just don’t think it landed as well as the game. Essentially it was supposed to contrast Sarah’s reaction to Joel killing the old lady.
As Drinker has said, Hollywood can't stand a stoic man. Joel in the games is a broken man with a heart of stone. Nearly devoid of any emotion. Which is what makes him so cold, ruthless and dangerous. Joel in the show is being portrayed more like an attack dog. Yes, Robert is afraid of Joel but his discussion with Tess is more "If I let you go, you're going call your dog off, right?" To which Tess reassures Robert "Don't worry. He does what he's told." Joel in the game is a man who had his life thrown into absolute chaos in one night. Game Joel is a bit controlling as a result. Which is what causes the initial tension with him and Ellie, who is a young, rebellious teen. Their overall character arc is of Joel being softened by Ellie, becoming a father again and Ellie being harded by Joel, going from being a naive girl into a confident and capable woman. Game Joel wouldn't lose control and beat that soldier like a wild animal. Game Joel would make a cold and calculated decision to kill him because he has no other choice. The show is alright but the game is objectively better based on this alone.
Never thought about it like that when it comes to how Ellie was hardened by Joel's presence
Thing is, the whole surviving population would have hardened due to the suffering they endured and the lost ones they lost over the past 20 years while civilization crumbled around them. Instead we get the gate guards running out to the boy without even having their guns drawn, while the female guard talked to the boy so sweetly as if she hasn't had to kill hundreds if not thousands of people for being infected like they did to the boy. So many things in this show were inconsistent and nonsensical.
It's literally the opposite of that. She has to lie to Joel to keep him from going off and killing him on his own. The very thing Robert was afraid of.
Finally someone who gets it.
@@whisky3k294 Ok to be fair, the talking to the child normally was more strategic. They were obviously going to put him down so the last thing they need is for him to resist and make delivering the drug difficult. It’s essentially putting his guard down so that he doesn’t resist being put down.
As a guy who didn’t play the first game I was utterly shocked when Joel’s daughter dies. I knew she was going to die at some point but I didn’t know it was first episode because first 30 mins was from her perspective, I would say that’s a very creative directing in my book; making audience believe that character we are following is the main character and killing her off.
What I heard them all say is "Hollywood has set the bar so low that ANYTHING resembling a coherent script and decent acting is Citizen Kane."
That was true for Mandalorian and now this. Maybe Pedro is being typecast 😂
@@phileas007 This is way better than Mandalorian already. It has characters.
True, except this isn't just "good by today's mediocre standards." It's actually good.
@@Tyler_W eh idk... The Walking Dead's pilot was better and didn't waste our time this much.
If you could compare it to anything, it would have to be what I'd believe it's based/inspired by, Children of Men. That movie is barely 20 minutes longer than this first episode of TLOU, but it's infinitely more economical with the storytelling and actually delivers some impressive action.
@@g.e.o.r.g.e... “wastes our time” or “world building” as normal people would call it
MauLer 30 seconds review - pure gold :D
I'm sure that experience absolutely traumatized him
@@holysecret2 Fuckin 30h long amazing breakdowns. *now do the same thing. In 30 seconds*
Part of the problem with a lot of modern writing is that characters are often not shown to have any emotion at all unless it's an emotional outburst. Likewise with Joel and the soldier. The only time strong action is taken is if it's a response to trauma? It's 2 decades after the beginning of the apocalypse. Everybody is traumatized. Something the games emphasized often.
I can see someone going apeshit on a soldier like that, imagine the fear and desperation of being in that life or death situation
For me I very much enjoy "living" in the world a bit longer before the break down. I love that aspect of shows like this. I love watching the beginning episodes of something like Battlestar Galactica or Walking Dead over and over.
Yeah nut the last of us isn’t about the breakdown, its about the aftermath.. deal with it
I thought it was really interesting how they kinda introduce the cordyceps through yeast or baked goods... the cookies the old neighbour eats and she turns first, Sarah doesn't eat the cookies so she doesn't get infected, Joel and Sarah were gonna eat pancakes but eat eggs instead, Joel not picking up the cake... it's cool to think the fungus spread through yeast products, also kinda makes sense. Joel also mentions being on that one diet (I forget what it's called) where you don't eat yeast. So now it's easy to understand why they didn't get infected.
Atkins diet
I hadn't event thought of that. That's very clever indeed
In the original cannon the Fireflies were Ecoterrorists who killed the enitre planet because global warming or some bullshit. Itd make senae to use baked goods as a delivery system because they already have mold in them, and can feed other types mold
In the game its said most of the infection is spread through coffee beans infected with the fungus. As i sip my coffee.
So one day all the yeast products randomly made people zombies and then never again?
I think the slow start made it work in the same way that the first episode of Chernobyl worked - this insidious, incremental sense of horror. People not really reacting to it because they can't see/understand the whole picture of the disaster while the audience understands that it's complete and total.
I kinda felt like Tess was the brains and Joel was the brawn in the video game she had all the connections and laid out the plans. Then Joel helped her make those plans happen.
Joel was pretty boring af in the game tbh… i think pascal is a great joel and so far his writing is decent
@@phantasticmrphasma9874 then you did not play the game
Seemed like Rags was holding himself back from jumping in to tell people they were wrong for not agreeing with him at multiple points.
I think the buildup to the outbreak was done exceptionally well here. That scene with the old lady twitching in the background while the camera being focussed on sarah was very suspenseful, even though you knew what was going to happen.
Felt like a waste of time.
@@tristandevlin6667 why you wathin series then
A waste of time? What? I thought it was one of the best shots of the episode, very unnerving.
@tristandevlin6667 how is it a waste of time, though? The reason you could just throw everyone right into the mix in the game is because you already care about Sarah by virtue of the fact you're playing as her. Her death is tragic because Joel lost his daughter, yes, but it's as shocking as it was because we got invested in her by experiencing the unraveling of society right along with her through our controlling of her. In a noninteractive medium, you don't just get that audience investment right off the bat. You actually have to introduce and get people invested in a character, and that requires more time and attention. Every adaptation if everything requires translation and changes because each medium of storytelling has its own rules. Very few if any stories can just be 100% copy-pasted 1:1.
I thought it was well done as too, it definitely kept me watching. It reminded me a little of the first ten minutes of the Dawn of the Dead remake, just on a little smaller scale.
Marlene was played by the exact same actor from the game, hence the likeness...
I always knew that Ron Swanson could survive a zombie apocalypse. Can't wait to see him in episode 2.
This is the one change I'm not sure how much I'll like. Bill was originally portrayed as the crazy hermit guy who set booby traps around his entire town until it is gradually revealed that he's not the loner we thought he was. He had a partner and got jaded when things didn't work out. You get a hint of that in the dialog, but you learn more through optional environmental storytelling. It's more subtle. In the series, it looks like they're just telling a more straightforward story about how Bill and Frank meet and eventually fall out. It could be better in execution than I anticipate, but I prefer subtlety to something straightforward and on the nose. If it is the latter, it'll definitely be because it's a gay relationship. I'm intrigued enough to gladly wait and see, though.
@@Tyler_W just as Bill set booby traps throughout the town, Ron Swanson hid bacon throughout the office.
Ep 3
This is what I like to see. Fans debating the pros and cons of a new show. No outrage at how bad it is, but just enjoying the show even if it's not perfect.
That's because the show is actually good so far, respecting the source material and being a competently made, entertaining show.
@@hristol7537 I mean, following parts very closely _could_ be considered respectful, but then why race-swap the characters? It seems like they're just taking what they know works, but still wanting to arbitrarily change things for brownie points.
This was almost a feature length film, 80 minutes... and it had approximately 1.5 action scenes.
@@g.e.o.r.g.e... I have no issue with race swapping when it comes to modern american characters, when that's not used to push a political narrative, of course.
@@hristol7537 It's always political because it's only going in one direction... smh
It's a mixed response that makes sense given what happened in the 2nd game and the slew of terrible TV adaptations we've been subjected to lately. Seems that in different ways they're trying to keep an open mind, but are afraid to like it and get disappointed again.
Bella Ramsey is like Matt Smith. Not unattractive, but I'd say her features are atypical for what Hollywood usually uses. When you spend so much time looking at actors and actresses it can take you out of the story because you focus on the features of the person portraying the character instead of the character themselves.
In the game, I always thought that Tess was the dominant one in that relationship. Partly because it was tutorial time, but Tess did all the bargaining, all the wheeling and dealing, as Joel we were always following Tess, and then later on Marlene. The time Joel walks through the bus on his way to see Robert, and some dude stops him, then Tess says "He's with me" or words to that effect, and the other guy backs off "Sorry Tess"
Long story short, I don't think the show made him any more subservient, than the game portrayed him to be at the start.
Exactly. No idea what this girl is going on about. Just trying to get the guys to agree with her
AZ was trying really hard to find some kind of wokeizm in the show. I'm a huge fan of the game and I still don't have anything but some nitpicks against the show. Yes, a few things are a bit different but as long as they respect the source material that shouldn't be a problem to anyone.
100% agree I think they were just scratching for something to be angry about. Tess was clearly the "boss" in their relationship in the game, Joel was basically her muscle. He wasn't her servant by any means, and I didn't get that feeling from the show either
That was because they knew Tess and didn't know Joel, not because Tess was in charge. Joel argues with Tess a lot in the game, he doesn't just do as she says.
@@markyonline1 if you can't see the wokeizm in this show you need glasses.
At the end of this video what The Little Platoon says about the first episode is absolutely spot on almost word for word what I have been saying and thinking about it as someone who has also not played the game. I've just seen this type of show done SO many times before as he said.
I’ve played the games (and really enjoyed them) but am not infected with the fungus that has the fanboys obsessive with their precious IP.. the show has been really good so far
I havent seen anyone mention the dialogue of the soldier that kills Sarah. In the game he has a line over the radio where he says something along the lines of"But, sir...There's a little girl." and that line was removed from the show and the soldier looked perfectly content gunning down Joel and his daughter. It could be nothing, it could be a slight against the humanity, or lackthereof with the military. I just thought it was weird.
The soldier does apologize to Joel before Tommy guns him down. So they changed it a little bit, because Sarah is also a little bit older than in the game. But to say that he seemed content about it, isn't true. Like he literally says "I'm sorry".
They definitely remove that line, but you definitely also get the same emotional intent fron the way the soldier's lines are delivered. He actually gets surprised by what his commanding officer is presumably telling him to do, and his last "yes, sir" was delivered in a very different and almost sad tone of voice compared to his previous ones. It's less explicit in the show, but you can infer the exact same intent if you pay attention to how he delivers his lines, not to mention he apologizes afterward.
In the show the soldier said: I'm sorry? Repeat?? And then he goes on to Yes sir, Yes sir and a last Yes Sir where his voice almost changes to a little angery, discontent with what he have to do. And when he says I'm sorry to Joel his voice shivers.
Because it’s a terrible melodramatic line. We know he’s reluctant, he doesn’t need to state why.
It's because the actress is like 19 and no joke they prob felt it was offensive to refer to her as "a little girl". The scene in the game is much better because it makes it more clear what is about to happen and having him stop to apologize before shooting Joel makes it seem entirely too convenient for Tommy's sudden arrival.
I agree with the concept of Tess having to go at some point. The focus is the relationship between Joel and Ellie. If you hang out with two friends at the same time all the time, you won't have the chance to build a deeper relationship with just one of them. It's just the way it is.
Yes but they f up, in the game Tess wanted to do the mission and Joel didn't but he agreed because he wanted to protect Tess, he never cared about Ellie, and then he wanted to get rid of her because Ellie was the reason that Tess was gone! That's why Ellie left so now you have a problem with the story!
Tess is in the first 5 episodes.
@@peterd788 So basically half the season? She's not in half the game, and that may be their point.
@@peterd788 She just died lol
@@user-go1sl6rd7u I haven’t watched the episode yet but never underestimate the power of flashbacks. I still have them for Vietnam and I was barely 12 when it ended and many thousands of miles away. I have my truth and it’s very elastic.
Overall, I liked the pilot. Sure. There are slight differences and additional scenes/stories, but that’s needed for a live action adaptation. We don’t want an exact carbon copy either, nor do we want an adaptation that strays so far away from the game (ahem The Witcher) it becomes something else entirely. So I thought they did an excellent job handling it. So far. For both the fans of the game and for newcomers. I’m definitely tuning in for more. Also, I disagree with AZ on Pedro and Bella “cosplaying” as the characters since I thought they did a great job portraying their version of the characters that doesn’t seem something else entirely, but hey. We all have our own opinions, and for that, I respect it.
Yeah they are making solid points but I feel like if the game didn’t exist and they have something to draw comparisons from they would be talking about how amazing the episode is. Cause it’s great. I agree with everything you said. This is a good way to tell a similar story for new and old people and to do that they need to tweak the characters personalities to fit. There’s nothing wrong with that. Looking forward to more.
Agreed on pretty much all of it. I'm still not 100% sold on Lady Mormont because I can't help but see her that way, but she definitely delivers a great performance and nails the wide-eyed spitfire attitude of the character. The one thing we don't quite get is the character's innocence. She definitely seems to have a harder edge in the show, but we don't get enough of her to really get a full read on her, I think.
I'm agreeing with Melonie a lot here. Rags seems to question her a lot for apparently no reason. She's going based off of the game, so if you don't understand that, then stop asking about it after she's answered the same question essentially 3 times already.
The game isn't the show. All that matters to Mauler and Co. is internal consistency. They're basing their opinions on what they are presented within the show.
The Little Platoon’s monologue at the end is EXACTLY how I felt about the first episode!
Thats also exactly how i felt about the game until the later parts where joel and ellie relationship gets deeper.
At the start of the flash forward in the game, Joel IS rather passive. He just wants to do what he has to do to survive. At first, he does not even want to deal with Tess's scheme. And he really is just the "muscle" at first, while Tess kind of pushes him into a leadership role, particularly after she was bit and knew she was on a time limit
Younger older relationship
Tess was still busy with smuggling stuff & politics
joel on other hand gotten tired & just want to do "orders"
Especially knowing joel did some thing REAL bad when his brother leave him
The game gave me the impression that Joel deliberately kept himself as uninvolved as possible to avoid personal investment and attachment.
Yeah I think that’s what they were going for and maybe fumbled it. But Joel definitely was more passive in the game then they are making him out to be.
@tripleaarcade he really was. He doesn't even take agency for himself until Tess dies and he's finally convinced Ellie's the real deal. In the show he actually has more agency now because he has a personal reason to go west beyond Tess and Marlene telling him to do it and Joel just doing it to get paid. Up to Tess dying, he's just there to get the job done. He doesn't really start making proactive decisions until he and Ellie are out on the road alone together.
The first episode was loved for obvious reasons: It has a very sweet and tragic little story between Joel and his daughter, directed and acted very well. Then we move on on the timeline and we witness a very convincing post-apocalyptic background.
But I am much more cautious for the next episodes.
Even more so that I have a huge issue right now with the casting of Ellie. Not only she has zero charisma, but the way Ellie is portrayed here is angry, dark, agressive... missing completely the mark on the charming girl that would break the armor of the survivor Joel, leading him eventually to his hail mary move at the end of the 1st game.
I won't speak about season 2 and Gigantor, I am still trying to convince myself the 2nd game doesn't exist.
No, Ellie is exactly like this, has a smart mouth, has attitude and can stand up for herself. Bella played her really well and I was convinced, even sounded like her a few times. I feel people still have a problem with how she looks, like get over that at this point. Also daddy Joel will live on lmao
It's just bad fail-fiction, not canon so it doesn't happen. Cuckmann isn't a fan so can't be called fan fiction
@@TheNightman. Right but he wrote both games, just because you have a problem with it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. So you know more than the person that wrote Joel, gotcha
I love the portray of Ellie a lot actually.
Bella Ramsey convinced me in the first episode.
She has a presence I love.
Ramsey nailed the serious and quirky said of Ellie to a teeth.
I appreciate her different take on the character in another format (streaming show).
On the other hand, Pedro Pascal has to prove over the next episodes that he can really convey all sides of Joel convincingly. Bella Ramsey may not look like the video game template, but she is a well established actress.
How exactly do you determine that she has no charisma?
@@Hunterese123
Yes, many people have a problem with that and you won't change even a single opinion with your pathetic shilling - get over it...
haven’t seen the show yet but from what i remember of playing it myself and having seen of the game recently(i watched a streamer beat it just yesterday) Joel doesn’t lose his cool and that’s why he IS intimidating. all the brutal stuff he does, he does with a clear mind and intent. i love the fact that by the end of the game you can really question wether you were a bad guy all along or not. i hope the show will keep that ambiguity.
that ending is also the reason i won’t play part 2, wether it’s good or bad.Joel and Ellie’s story wrapped up perfectly to me, if they wanted to make another game they should have come up with interesting new characters in that universe, then i would have tried it.
The most faithful video game adaptation ever and of course they are gonna bitch about it.
The game has 2 and half hours of cinematic storytelling, what are they supposed to do with the other 8 hours? Have Joel running around silently killing npcs?
Considering you like Velma, your opinion means zero. Lol. 🤡🌎
@@DrakonR yeah.any show that manages to piss off every snowflake on both aisles is doing something right.
I enjoyed the first episode. But I know where this story ultimately goes so its hard to be super excited by it…
I wouldn't be surprised if they stretch out the first game into 2 seasons. Or change the 2nd season heavily so it doesn't match the game. We'll see.
@@equivalentexchangeisalie5726 Nope, I need that Abby in Season 2, best character of Part 2, and that's facts
And it can drop quality-wise and start with the typical THE MESSAGE-lecturing later on......
@@equivalentexchangeisalie5726 Pretty sure they've confirmed that this season ends where the first game ends. But I can see them stretch the 2nd game into at least 2 seasons. I would be disappointed if they keep Joel just because of Pedro Pascal or because of the supposed 'backlash' from the 2nd game got.
@@Hunterese123 😂😂😂
This is probably the most level headed approach to analyzing the show we can hope for. Good job voicing your concerns while remaining clear that it’s too early to judge the material as a whole.
Drinker does much better with mauler around to reign him in when he starts drifting into the political echo chamber. Rags has been a voice of reason too.
@@Opener73 compared to drinker, yes. And rags is a lunatic
Watch the interviews with the cast and the producers after the credits. Their outlook on what Ellie is feeling in the last scene is completely unhinged.
i love the difference of opinions and insight from different perspectives. i personally loved the first episode. after hearing some very valid points about the dichotomy of the game and the show, i was able to further comb through the scenes and see some of things to look for as the show develops.
In the game Tess has to actively convince Joel to take Ellie. He's not particularly amenable to the idea, especially after being fucked around by the Fireflies.
Not really. He listened to the deal. He had no objections to it. But Tess didn't want to do shit before she had seen the goods. The part where Joel had to be convinced, barely, was watching over Ellie, alone, while Tess was looking at the weapons. Then Joel took Ellie to the north tunnel safe house and waited. Tess comes late at night saying she saw the merchandise, and that it was A LOT, then asks Joel: Wanna do this? And he answers Yes. And he answers quckly without hesitation.
The parts you're thinking of, you're remembering as being more convincing then it was, and it was later, we've not gotten that far in the story. Should be in EP2 though.
Really good. It's nice to see something literally quoting it's source material in a world where The Witcher, Resident Evil etc all exist.
I agree. This has to be the best and most direct respect to source material but at same time having the ability to add things that increase the emotional attachment or world building. Not perfect but damn. Way way wayyy better than most
At least Arcane is a gem.
I took Ellie’s reaction to Joel beating the guy to death more as no one has ever stood up for her outside of her being the “cure”
26:11 I think if you have this dynamic then later when Joel gets hurt and ellie goes out on her own as well as gets kid napped, that emotion that gets played with really well of her needing to grow up but still just being a little girl goes completely out of the window, because she’s shown more emotional maturity towards the world they are living in. Essentially it won’t make since for her to act the way she does later or feel what she does later, because she didn’t feel any of that previously.
Neil outright said that seeing Joel kill that guy ‘activated’ Ellie. Whatever that means. My money's on him trying to retroactively foreshadow her actions in the sequel. This and the show having tendrils instead of spores are massive red flags to me. It seems that Neii is resurrecting ideas he agreed to reject back when he was co-director of the first game in an attempt to make the HBO setting his own. The last time he did that was the revenge plot in the sequel, and look how that turned out.
The tendrils was needed cause if the spores was the main force for infection everybody would be in masks all the time. We already have seen first hand with our own pandemic that we suffered through that so many people didn't want to wear masks for reasons. In the game they can get away with it for gameplay reasons, in a TV show they can't do that. Besides the tendrils make the infected that more creepy.
Some people are brilliant and don't need producers, Neil is not one of those people. His background is not as a writer, he was a software developer. I'm one too and I though I could probably throw a story together I would never be so arrogant as to expect it to be published without someone reviewing it and providing improvements.
@@izumolee6714 That's not true. You'd only be at risk of infection in low flow area's with a high concentration of spores due to how your innate immune system works. Just as we see in the game.
@@IncredibleGoliath "where she is a sweet fantasy gf for teenaged boys" I'm sorry, she supposed to be this in the game?
I think what they meant with 'activated' was that Ellie has never had anyone jump on her defense quite as ferocious as Joel did especially when it's something Ellie feels is justified and she finds she likes that feeling. Even if Joel did not beat the guard for her. But she doesn't know that.
This is one of those cases where I need the season to end before making any definitive judgment. There are some good moments and some moments that have me concerned, some changes that worked and others that didn’t. But the biggest factor is figuring what they’re changing to better fit for TV, versus what they’re changing to try and justify what’s to come (Part II)
You need to eat the entire pile of cow shit before you can tell its cow shit? Even if its got a candy filling it aint worth eating through cow shit to get there dude
I’d like to mention that when the complaint about “slow buildup then everything happens at once” happened because they adjusted the rules of how the infection spread. It takes 5-15 minutes if bitten in the neck or face, rather than 2-3 days in the game. I think it fits the scenario better.
But how is that going to affect Sam and Henry? Are they just not gonna have them in the series?
@@ProxyDoug Sam and Henry are definitely in the show. I have a strong feeling that their fates are going to be changed in some capacity, im not sure how much or to what. Sam got bitten in the leg in the game, which according to the new rules set by the show, would give him roughly 12-24 hours before he turned. Both characters are shown in the trailer, I just dont think they'll have the exact same deaths as in the game.
Melanie: on point Az: on point Rags: clueless. TLoU was beautifully done and they had a perfect story to work with to start, when they start meddling and add and taking away they are not being true to the source and don't actually care about are real representation of a TV version of a game and more concerned with changing characters to suit some message.
Az making a girl shout "Yes!" for less than 30 seconds, before finishing - on brand.
😂
In the game, I got the impression that tess and Joel were equal but tess was more senior and therefore had more decision making power. The show did a decent job portraying that. It sounds like yalls biggest gripe with Joel's characterisation is from a 2 second flash back that could also be seen not as a trigger moment but him remembering the last time he was in that situation and what he could have done diifferent. This would imply that he was in control the entire time. He looks to be unhinged because that's what you have to do in a street fight and even more so when the stakes are life or death.
👍👍👍
In the game I always assumed there was an initial wave of spores that swept across the country which is how so many people got infected at once. If it's just through the bite I don't see how it could spread so quickly.
It’s shown that the fungus spreads through flour. Joel and Sarah manage to avoid the flour products as the outbreak happens. They eat eggs instead of pancakes, Joel forgets to buy a b’day cake. Sarah doesn’t eat any of the cookies baked by the old lady ( the first victim we see turned ). And Joel saying he’s on an Atkins diet, which cuts out cakes, cookies and bread etc. I missed some of the hints on the first watch and the second watch confirmed the theory.
@@mrsickukxx1332So long story short, the infection was already MASSIVELY spread through yeast products, which people consumed on a massive scale and became ticking time bombs, hence why out of nowhere their bodies just go haywire from the cordyceps
@@mrsickukxx1332 They said in the game, none of that happens in the game
The way the explain it makes no sense really as there would have been signs way before a global infection and not everyone gets flour from the same place. It was dumb to use a fungus who soresd with spores but change it to a function like one that had existed and spread through flour but hasn't been an issue for centuries now. It also didnt spread so far that it destroyed the world or even got close. A few tens of thousands died before they realized what was going on. That is at best what would have happened in this show. Should have kept the spores because that is the only logical way it would spread so fast and so wide to the point they couldn't stop it.
@@WayStedYou They’re explaining how it happened in the SHOW since the person was wondering how it could spread without spores! No, it doesn’t happen because of yeast in the game, we’re aware, it was a way for them to try and show a different method of infection to avoid having everyone simply wear gas masks the whole time.
37:58 I will say this is a hard battle that this show-and really any zombie show- has to face now, because if I’m not mistaken the game came out during the zombie craze we were having and when the walking dead was just starting out, and now the walking dead has explored a lot of the nihilism that that world evokes and the last of us is kind of in that same vein, so it will be interesting to see if this show can still capture everyone’s interest while still being after a show that’s already walked this ground. Just makes me wish it would have come out as a show sooner, than now. Especially before they made part two.
I agree. Having no experience with the game I found it pretty much the same road travelled with some CGI badies to come. Nothing new here.
bella is so bloody unlikable that i can't imagine joel ditching the last stand with tess to protect her. she has nothing in common with his daughter.
It’s not about how unlikable Bella is, it’s about how much Joel cares about Tess. I didn’t buy Joel ditching Tess because up until that point, Ellie was just a snarky, annoying kid that might slow Joel down. But I did buy Joel respecting Tess’ last wish. That’s what will matter then.
tbh bella was probably the biggest miscast for me . i didnt even care about joels daughter being black cause she was likable atleast . bella just looks opposite of what ellie is tbh .
I understand that this is an adaptation of a game and fans of the game would like elements of the game in the storyline - for example the neck break pace of the intro of the game vs the slow burn intro of the series. However, what fans of the game need to realise is that there are a lot of people (including myself) who didn't play the game. So we need to properly introduced to the characters and what makes them tick. And I think the writer/director team has done that pretty well. I like the show.
You’re missing out then. The game will almost certainly be superior to the show. Up until the second season that is when it goes to shit if they follow the 2nd game
Fair takes all around. And it’s nice to hear some nuanced perspectives.
I'd like to watch it just to see it put together. They filmed a bunch two blocks up from me, then at the old gangbanger bar around the corner, and they blocked off the bus turnaround on the way to work for a week. I got to see the sets and it was really neat how fast they put them together and how good they looked. So it'd be kinda cool to see them in context. And in the trailer they're crossing the old engine bridge. My friends and me used to ride across that thing almost every day when we were little so that definately stuck out. That's really all that interests me about this.
I think the discussion about the world building is really about a "true game adaption" versus expanding on the already established content. I believe Az would prefer a game adaptation and Mauler doesn't mind exploring the world some more (e.g. back stories). What Az (and me too) fear is that too much focus on world building will make the show slow, boring, and possibly add unnecessary content.
The problem I have is how Joel becomes weak with Tess kills the whole show for me I'm out already
And also how they _already_ changed so many details that affect characterization.
Also, we’re all looking for how they’re going to change it to fit the narrative they wanted in TLOU2
I prefer exploration. There's a difference between slow burn and actually being slow. The firmer is "slow" in the sense that it isn't afraid to let you soak in it so to speak, but it's still heading in a particular direction at a deliberate pace, whereas something that's just slow is meandering with no sense of direction or pace and wasting time on things that don't actually matter. I very much think the show is and will continue to be the former.
@@kenbeenbanned1674 wtf are you talking about
I do think the extended time with Sarah is important in the show due to the lack of us playing as her, I'm not sure how else to explain it but playing as a character typically gives you a connection to them. Hard to replicate that feeling.
We do play as Sarah though. Admittedly it's only for a little bit and we don't do anything other than walk around and investigate, but I still felt it had some impact.
In a video game, we need to be given something to do in a timely matter, hence the early action makes sense. I think it's vital they gave us time with Sarah (from her pov even) in the tv-show, because now we knew her when she does die, may even care about her and can empathize with how hard that hits Joel. Had you skipped that, we'd have had: here's Joel, he has a daughter, now she's dead. Ok. Anyway, 20 years later...
Also, I never played the game but heard most about it in the controversy surrounding part 2. Since part of that controversy surrounds Joel's actions at the end, I sat down and watched the "cutscene-movie" from the game (thank you to those people that put those up on youtube). Believe you me that Tess has a major leading role there too. So much so that had that come out today i'd probably have sighed a little and thought "yeah yeah, strong woman taking charge, how predictably boring".
Lastly, for what it's worth, I saw a Making of the Last of Us, where one of the writers, Mazin, said Ellie was "activated" by Joel's actions. She was supposed to actually kinda LIKE that someone would defend her like that, in opposition to the character of Sarah, who was shocked when Joel beat the neighbour to death. So that's probably what she was supposed to convey with that look : )
I gotta say my first impression is decent to good, and I'll be seeing where it goes.
As a fellow Texan, and playing the game, being very appreciative of how they handled Joel, Tess, etc
I completely agree with the lady’s pov. It does feel like “intentionally taking guns out”
Hollywood seems so damn scared of firearms being in any sort of positive light, or as a social norm…ALL THE TIME
(of course we know why)
A big reason I’ve never really felt Hollywood has ever gotten Texas “right” in, well, most aspects
The did the same thing with Uncharted, and NOBODY talked about it. Nathan Drake literally never takes a gun into battle. He randomly picks one up in the last fight; one that a bad guy drops. He fires a few shots then loses it or something.
How the heck can you make an Uncharted movie and not have Nathan Drake firing guns? It's like a Bond movie without a car.
@@SeraphsWitness love this comment
Because they will forever see firearms as weapons instead of the *tools* they are. They treat the gun like a bomb rather than a wrench.
@@oblivionsa7973 exactly. This is exactly it.
It’s not that f-ing hard to understand.
We don’t stop making automobiles & the sheer number of deaths from wrecks I mean-
Yeah we all know “what it is” & why some people “reeee!!” about firearms
There's a behind-the-scenes bit after the episode in which it's explained that the reason why Ellie was looking at Joel the way she was when he was killing that guy was because she was fascinated by the idea of someone protecting her like that.
As far as series adaptations go, that was a solid first episode, i was entertained and in the end that's what I'm looking for.
First impressions looking good I’ve seen that dashed to bits before, time will tell.
I actually really liked the slow pacing of the show to start, mostly because of how intense and jump-right-in in the game had been. I was like on the edge of my seat waiting, and they even teased me one or twice by showing the girls room.
Good to see such different view points from everyone on the first episode of the last of us. But don't forget about MauLer and Rags they also liked season 1 Mandolorian and Wanda vision a couple of episodes in but that change when the final episodes came out and it became very bad so I will wait until more episodes come out before going to watch the show.
Same. I'm not about to watch the show because the DLC and 2nd game disillusioned me, but I'm open to seeing how the show goes.
@Dramattic Designs Awesome to see you look for positive comments to mock.
@Dramattic Designs I mean it worked I certainly am not going to watch Velma after what they told in the stream.
I didn't play the game and when his daughter died it hit me hard. I think in them adding his daughter in, making you think she'll survive, gives Joel more character depth. I feel for his.
To a neutral, i’d imagine the show seems really good.
I’ve played both games and think the adaptation is brilliant so far
I’m a bit sad that Anna Torv is playing Tess and she dies in the game. She’s such a good actress and it’s a shame it’s only a small part.
You can hear the mald in rags voice when he throws underhanded comments when Mel calls out the race-swapping
Despite the good first impressions I'm not sold on this show just yet, I've been burned too many times.
While there are definitely some signs of the message, it seems like the main elements are still the most important
@@GlennYarwood either they remain faithful to the source material and inevitably adapt the disaster that is The Last of Us 2, or change things and take a risk of making it worse AND shitting on the source material.
@@Gannoh If they are smart they won’t touch 2, they’d be better off making a story during the missing 20 year period
Yeah especially since I watched the IGN review, and the reviewer made a point of saying how it has some episodes that are "great for LGBT(etc.) Representation" or something like that. Bit of a paraphrase. So that makes me nervous about how crazy they're going to get with THE MESSAGE.
@@GlennYarwood They aren't smart, Neil Druckmann is showrunner and he's done nothing but double down on that trash heap
Maybe it's just me but Melonie seems very biased in her take for everything especially Joel's characterization. Tess was bossy even in the video games and I'd argue even more so than the show. In the show when it came to making decisions and being assertive it was mostly Joel all along. When the old lady attacks its Joel who puts her down. Tommy even asks him "What are we doing?". In the truck it's Joel making the decision to leave the family in need of help. Joel decides where they would go. And he is the one who was ok with Tommy to run over people to get out. In 2023 even both Robert and Tess make it clear the one he was afraid of was Joel. I think Melonie simply chose to ignore all this for some reason.
Melonie sucks as a person in general. I used to follow her on twitter cuz she was friends with drinker and all them, but shes constantly hating on something or someone for little to no reason and picking fights with nobodies. Shes the "only god can judge me" type.
@@ThelaziaCafe Yep, I can totally see her doing this.
Picking up on the division on opinion about the opening sequence between the video game's fast pace and the TV show's slower simmer - both approaches are tailored to do the same thing based on the expectations of their respective medium. The video game worked because it quickly hooked you into the idea that Sarah would be a sidekick character to the player-controlled main protagonist, so her death is something of a shock. The TV show also worked because it focused on Sarah for a comparatively long time, giving you the natural expectation that should we be a long-term character in the show, again making her death a shock, but still introducing you to the world and the actual main protagonist from a more oblique angle. It's an intelligent piece of adaptive reworking, rather than slavishly sticking exactly to the video game shot-for-shot.
Really glad you brought that other person on. They had a very, perspective. And agreed. A lot of input of their own. Like,"Yeah!"
Joel’s original motivation for agreeing to take Ellie was so that they could recover their product (weapons) from the Fireflies. They shoehorned in the plot line of him trying to get to Tommy when originally Joel was estranged from his brother.
I actually prefer this change. It makes more sense that he would want to risk leaving the safety of the quarantine zone to find his brother given that he's the only family he has left.
@@daigneauray7087 Yes but that has a knock on effect with the fact that Joel wants nothing to do with the Fireflies and that Tommy had joined them. It’s more satisfying of a reunion when you know there’s this deep resentment and pride that Joel has to break through when they reunite.
@@cheddulous Perhaps, but I also feel that with HBO's interpretation of Joel, they portray him as being much closer to his brother than in the game (i.e. we actually see them interact before the outbreak). Joel also states that he blames Marlene more for persuading Tommy to join the Fireflies than for Tommy abandoning him in Boston.
I think throughout the season/ seasons they will try to villify joels’ actions to have him killed off and make it a good thing, whereas we were all angry at his dogshit death.
I like that everybody thats says Joel is bad for killing the fireflies forgets they did it to themselves. They backed from their end of the deal and kicked joel on his ass without giving him the guns thet promised him. Joel didn't nearly die getting Ellie to them just to get fucked in the end. If he didn't get his guns he wouldn't be leaving empty handed
@@mariobadia4553 It's not that Joel is bad for killing the Fireflies. It's that Joel is bad for denying humanity the cure. Totally different things. The Fireflies are the main villains in the story, but their goal was to use Ellie in order to figure out her immunity and then mass produce it. (something FEDRA probably could have done much quicker but anyhoo...) It's Joel not being able to let something other than his own narcissistic priorities go and put humanity first that makes him the bad guy.
@@nimz8521 they killed a bunch immune people in the attempt and failed miserably(yes there were other immune people before that incredibly incompetent doctor got his hands on them and killed them). For all we know being immune is genetic and they were wiping a segment of the population capable of rebuilding humanity. Besides how can a cure be made in a absolutely filthy Rundown hospital that is barely even running off a old Generator? I mean did you see the state of that place? it was overgrown and had mold growing everywhere. That's not even talkin about how you can't cure fungus infection and even if you could you need a 100-percent sterile environment with a completely functional facility not a mold, roach, and rat infested run-down Hospital that struggles to keep the power on. That's not even going into the fact that they couldn't even protect it if one determined man was enough to break through the guards and kill one of their most important members. An actual organized attack from one of the other factions would be able to easily steal the cure for themselves if they can't even stop one man
Exactly. Druckmann didn't have full creative control of the first game so its not how he would've wanted the story to go. Now he is in control and wants to retroactively change things to justify his sequel.
I don't agree with that at all because that was never the point or intention behind bis death in part 2 in the first place.
I liked the slow intro. Other zombie shows did the 'Out of the traps' introductions before so it was good they did the Shaun of the Dead slow burn intro.
Spores didn't happen everywhere in the game. The Ellie reveal happened just like it did in the game. That moment was actually very similar in the show.
The panel must not have played The Last of Us recently. Tess was always the brains and Joel was the brute in the game. She was the negotiator for trading rations for Roberts location and convinced Joel to transport Ellie to Boston’s capital building. In addition she will convince Joel to continue on the journey because Ellie is the key to stopping the infections.
Mauler seemed the one who understood much better
But Tess wasn't the boss of Joel and vice versa. It was a partnership.
Yeah, Joel didn't really have much agency of his own until it was just him and Ellie. The show actually gives him more agency because it actually gives him a personal reason to go across the country and take the route they do for more reasons than just "Marlene and Tess told me to do it," because he actually wants to find Tommy. I'm guessing when things go belly up in the next episode and Joel has to commit to going cross country, he's gonna take Ellie along the path he was gonna go himself anyway amd then figure put what to do with her when he finds Tommy.
@whadayadoin3300 I don't really think it matters either way since I don't have a problem with mixing some elements up when the core of the relationshop is basically the same, but they're still a partnership. She's only "in charge" in the sense that she's the forward face of the operation, the brains to Joel's brawn that she uses to threaten enemies. It's still a partnership because she isn't just telling him what to do. They actually discuss what happened and what to do next, and it was Joel who put his foot down and said he needed the car battery, military truck and weapons, so they decide to go after Robert.
Yeah I have no idea why they think Tess wasn’t like this in the game (I do know why) Roberts gang only allowed Joel in because Tess was with him
I generally liked it, and it felt pretty faithful to the source material. I do have a concern that they will undervalue Joel. Tess and Sarah were definitely the most compelling characters. I kind of wish they were just making this a mini-series so as to avoid bloat and filler scenes.
Curious to see how season 2 goes 👀
I agree with most of what MauLer said
Joel takes lead as a father and veteran in the show when everything kicks off
As somebody who played the game a couple times, I was very skeptical, but the first few minutes ultimately hooked me in a way I never expected, and I remained invested throughout most of it.
Same, and I agree - I'm hooked... Those complaining about characters looking different need to chill. For example, I'm sure there's a girl out there that looks exactly like Ellie - but can she act?
@@beobe99 she acts nothing like Ellie
I have to agree with the sentiment that Joel is too passive. Having him snap and show how "scary" he is in that one moment honestly just takes away form his character. From gameplay to cutscenes, Joel is shown to have a mostly stoic/calm mind of his own. Even during his interrogation scene in the game, he does not let out a howl or scream of animalistic rage. He IS IN CONTROL. I've looked into the second episode, and, man, the "fights" have me utterly disappointed. From the first preview on E3 up to its release, I always saw The Last of Us as a story about humanity being more a threat than the infection/infected... and I'm surprised that Joel and Tess and Ellie have yet to encounter an actual direct brawl/shootout with humans. And, no, I don't count that one scene where Joel gets all mad and snaps. I'm sick and tired of seeing men be portrayed as loose cannons. And I don't get why or how Rags and MauLer don't seem to see or address this as a problem in the narrative thus far.
The actress that plays Ellie reminds me of a mini Jim Beaver from Supernatural.
"Nostalgia is stored in the testicles."
-Bilbo Baggins
Melonie Mac saying Joel in the show has no "edge" is weird when we see him threaten a random guy just for talking to him and selling drugs on the side while also everyone in town seems to fear pissing him off in any way and very much respecting his abilities for example you Marlene in the scene where shes been shot and she sees Joel and you can tell shes very relieved to see him because she knows hes a good guy and can get the job done
Yeah I think she was overcompensating a bit in order to get her point across. Her point about guns was good though.
Considering how Neil Druckman mishandled the franchise and ruined the second game, I’m hesitant to become invested in this series or Binge.
And to @thelittleplatoon I have a friend that hasn't played the game and I'm waiting for him to tell me what he thinks of it as a newcomer, so I'm glad you brought that up yourself. I've played the game multiple times having bought the original release on day one so I'm looking forward to seeing what another 'uninitiated' viewer of the show (so to speak) thinks of it. I wish I could binge the series in one, then play the game without any prior knowledge myself. I am curious as to how I'd view it this much later on too, as a more jaded and cynical adult rather than being in my early twenties playing a game with a much-more-well-written-than usual narrative driven video game than I'm used to seeing that probably took me by surprise which would have added to my enjoyment tinted the rise further in the glasses at the time and retrospectively. I'm enjoying the extra bits, or the bloat as you noted but I'm also aware that I've immersed myself in the world by playing it prior to the show rather than just viewing so any extra context for me is a win on my nerdy gland. (Stupid, forgiving nerdy gland...) Hope you're also doing a solo video on this and look forward to it if you are!
Part of the issues with this are down to the Ludonarrative dissonance (the differnece betwen how you play a character and how they are in the cutscenes) thats why we have to have more explanation because if they acted like the game they would generally be a quiet sneeky psycopath. alot of the actual gamepaly scenes will have been removed and the storytelling in them will be added to the equivilent of extra cutscenes to keep the narative flow.
I love the discussion around Joel's agency, and it is very different from the game, but I think in the show their going for a more dead inside, apathetic Joel here at the start who will have to take more and more agency and find himself again as the world forces him to protect Ellie. I think Ellie not being horrified at Joel's beating of the guard was evidence of her encouraging his more savage behavior by being accepting of it. I hope at least that's part of the ark that they are setting up, only time will tell but I hope it's the start of a great show. It can't possibly be worse than the fucking halo show adaptation which just took a steamy dump on the chest of my childhood.
Its hard to say how much of a character arc he will have since he's going to get golf clubbed to death in season 2. Maybe they're making him more unlikable to justify his death better? Who knows honestly.
Joel is portrayed as bottled up grief and rage. It explodes when he goes off on the guard. I like they are keeping with the dark, survivalist Joel, frankly he is being portrayed as more overtly dark here than in the game ("I'll break your jaw"; Robert's open terror of Joel's wrath).
Yea that's what I was thinking. Rather than the hardened, crass, and brutal man, they're portraying the Joel who has all but given up. I don't know if that will work better, but we'll see.
they're* going
As usual, Mauler is the most objective one, being able to take the episode in as it is. Melonie and AZ seem to be very aware of what kind of people wrote this show... We know where this show is gonna go, lbr.
Well what do you think now? The show ended and it managed to stay faithful majority of it. Or did you just let two people who believe they “know what kind of people” made this show get to your head, when the person who made you the game itself worked on this?
To you, it sounded like you were hoping this show would be terrible but in the end, I think a lot of people can agree that this show actually was good.
@Silas Hurd the reason people were wary was because of Druckmann, not in spite of him. He also made TLOU2, and I believe everyone on this panel loathes that game.
Fun Fact: The actress that plays Tess is the VA for the main character in the PS3 game, Heavenly Sword.
Anna Torv? She’s a great Australian actress from Fringe.
For those who like the longer opening of the TV show, remember the openings of The Thing. Lack of character and setting establishment, but it grabs your attention. Grabbing your attention is the goal. You say, I'm in. Let's see where this goes.
Ellie was scanned and detected as infected by the armed guard in the game, which was the sole reason for killing him as he was going to shoot her presumably. It's just they had more time to explain it then it seems. But it was very close to the end of the episode and so it felt rushed.
than*
Books. Read 'em.
@@CorrectionUnknown No need to be a dick about it.
Tess is contracted for 6 episodes, but it doesn't necessarily mean she's in 6 episodes. She just has to be available for them. She could only be in 3 or 4. Just fyi
They weren’t just gun runners in the game. in the first scene after the time jump with Tess, Joel mentions pills they were selling to a client. But the way Joel is portrayed in the show doesn’t really seem like a guy who would risk his life to be a smuggler in a quarantine zone. Like they really talked about Joel being a force more then showing it with any screen time or dialogue from Joel himself.
I’m making a prediction now about the Tess situation where it was mentioned “she should have like 10 minutes left”. When Joel and Tess are discussing the plan outside after locking Ellie in the room momentarily, I vaguely heard Bill mentioned which makes me think they are going to change the order so Tess will be alive for the Bill sequence, THEN they will go to the capitol building where Tess will die.