The Greatest Pontiac Never Made
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2024
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SOURCES
www.barchetta.co/pontiac-banshee-sources
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 INTRO
4:05 DEVELOPMENT
10:08 EVALUATION
11:07 XP-798
12:46 CONCLUSION
Semon E. “Bunkie” Knudsen took over as general manager. At just 43 years old, he was the youngest division head in GM history up to that point. Knudsen got Pontiac’s reinvention going by overseeing its entrance into NASCAR and NHRA competition. He also shook up its engineering division and brought in some fresh faces, including an engineer by the name of John Z. DeLorean. In a few short years, the brand went from an unfashionable marque to one that was on the rise. How would it follow this up? With a low-cost 2-seat sports car. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I think it's pronounced "make-o" shark, not "mack-o" shark.
You're right. Sorry about that.
@@Barchetta No worries. I wasn't trying to be a jerk. Just wanted to let people know.
The Mako Shark Corvette was painted the colors of the Mako Shark.
Frickin shark-nadoes with laser beams on their heads!
If you want the same pronunciation as the fish, try, "Mahko-Shark" (long "a") The reader actually has it pretty close.
Pontiac's entire history seems to be one slap down after another from GM especially when it came to any possible competition with the Corvette.
Till the final slap in 2009
Not just Pontiac. Every GM division had that problem. It's a minor miracle that the Camaro and Firebird ever got greenlit.
Sure was a slap down, the 1964 Pontiac Banshee never came about due to GM thinking it would move ppl away from buying the Corvette. GM then gave the design to Chevrolet to use as their 3rd gen Corvette. The same happened with the Firebird, every Firebird from 1967 is based off of the Camaro. That was the only way GM would allow Pontiac to put out a pony car.
@@dlm9477 I’m a huge Pontiac fan but I have to set the record straight about this one. When Ford introduced the Mustang it caught GM off guard because the Mustang was the answer to the Plymouth Barracuda and GM was behind. All these pony cars were sporty cars assembled with parts bin parts from other car lines. Initially, in addition to the Chevy Camaro and Pontiac Firebird, Oldsmobile was supposed to have their own F body variant. The Camaro was the first introduced but the Firebird took way longer than anticipated due to DeLorean’s insistence that the Firebird had to be superior to the Camaro in every way. All these delays actually screwed Oldsmobile out of their own version of the F body.
@@benn454 Not really. The Camaro and Firebird was GM’s response to the Ford Mustang. Chevy would have a version as GM’s sales leader and Pontiac would have one as GM’s (supposed) performance division. Oldsmobile was also supposed to have their own F body because their sales were slumping at the time.
Those flip over headlights are right out of the Opel Gt parts bin.
I had one back in the day.
Everytime I pulled the lever to flip them over I felt like James Bond and imagined they were machine guns or rocket launchers.
Rest in peace, Pontiac.
Oldsmobile too !
Pontiac was a brand at GM that got kicked down every time they had a winner. GM used to outright steal product development from Pontiac just to give the advances to other divisions prior to allowing Pontiac to utilize their own improvements in subsequent model years after they had been marketed and proven by the other divisions.
Pontiac is part of GM duh
You’re right
PMD was the
Bastard Stepchild.
@@Floridaredwing25 No doubt about it but the board of directors had pet divisions they favored heavily.
Don’t really need to steal what you already own.
@@rapid13 That's true but barring Pontiac from using its own researched technology and giving the resource to a much better funded division was commonplace within GM. Making Pontiac seem a lesser vehicle in the GM lineup.
I remember this project as the "Banshee." My father was on the project. The "Screaming Witch."
Strong Opel GT vibes from the hard top.
Headlights are Opal
The Opel was based on the Corvette as well.
I'd much prefer to have an Opel GT, than a Corvette.
My dad was a tool and diemaker for Pontiac, from 1968 til 1997. He lived in Pontiac, right by the plant, from 1985 on. I watched Pontiac die, first hand. Now Pontiac the city is slowly beginning to see a recovery.
Now I have another dream car on my list. A C3 corvette/Banshee restomod conversion. C3 donor car, custom Pontiac syled wheels, headlights, taillights, and some of other styling changes, turned aluminum dash, etc., and most importantly, a 455 Pontiac engine.
I miss Pontiac
Mercury and Plymouth too.
I miss oldsmobile
I miss all of them.
Obama killed it.
A couple decades later Lexus would get praise for equipping the SC400 with double pin door hinges. I guess they liked the Banshee concept, too.
I doubt it. Lexus succeeded.
@@AdamWaffen Because it was allowed to.
Assume management saw it being a competitor to the vette simply by it being half the price and decided to axe it.
Imagine the M2 being half price to the M3..
Bravo. Excellent video. Well researched, good production, no excess fat. I watch a lot of classic car videos, and many times give up halfway through. This one was all meat and no fat. Thank you.
Nothing can be faster than the Corvette, period...! GM has killed quite a few very cool cars because they were faster than the Corvette...! It's sad, but true...! Thanks for sharing... Keep up your awesomeness...
At some point someone shoulda said maybe your just not making the fast car fast enough
Like the Grand National
@@PaulKurz-iy7iv To be fair, the Grand National probably helped extend the life of that platform by years. GM was killing off RWD platforms left, right and centre in that era, to the point there was discussion of the F-body going FWD.
Nowadays the people you see driving Corvettes are usually old, white-haired men, it's a grandpa sports car. The new mid-engine Corvettes look too much like Ferraris, how are they at attracting younger drivers?
@@maxbrandt6 They got too damn expensive.
They've always been priced twice as much as the pony cars it seems, today that is a big difference than the 60s. A 65 Mustang sold for around 3000 for a GT model where the vette was over 6000, today that Mustang GT is close to 40000 and the vette is almost 90000. It's just out of reach for the young crowd who would drive the car like it should be driven, the Mustang is still in the range of the average buyer for performance that rivals the vette in the right engine package, and with some aftermarket parts will beat that expensive vette. The Camaro is going to be gone soon and maybe the Dodge cars due to government interference with what the market wants, people need to fight for the freedom to choose an enjoyable ride before they disappear for good.
You can always get a classic vette for a reasonable price today and enjoy.
It still hurts my heart to this day that Pontiac was always kept on a short leash by GM and was eventually destroyed. Well, the front of XP-833 always reminds me of the 1963 Lamborghini Prototype 350 GTV, which of course is a good thing in my opinion.
1960’s was the most interesting decade for American auto makers.Style and muscle!
Thank you for this video. It brought back great memories and being educational. I was a teenager, graduating high school in 1964. My friends and I liked the '63 Tempest. But, loved the '64 Pontiacs. My family were always "Chevy" people. Me, I've always been a "Pontiac" person. Owned a few over the years. My two favorites were a 1968 Grand Prix and a 1993 Grand Prix. RIP Pontiac, I still love you.
That car should’ve been produced! It looks beautiful!
They did. Chevy took it for the later Corvette
At 11:00 that Pontiac looks like a full-size Hot Wheels with the red line tires !! I definitely would have bought one of these !!
Maybe it's just me, but I see the C3 having taken much of its styling from this, rather than the Mako Shark.
You are correct. The vets parents were Pontiac 😎
It's been said that when GM axed the idea for the car they allowed Corvette designers to use much of the design to create the C3. SO this car did end up becoming the c3 corvette.
I always thought it was the Opel GT the C3 was a copy of, astheticly.
@@topcatcoast2coast579Those came out the same year.
@@number3665axed after stolen is more likely. The banshee is the stingrays.
What amazing concepts , too bad they didn’t come to fruition. Happy New years everyone. Cheers 🇨🇦
GM duplicated the majority of their vehicles throughout all the GM companies. They didn’t want the Corvette duplicated.
GM didn't produce this but did produce the Opel GT, which shares many styling similarities.
Opel was the German division of GM.
Opel GT was a German GM product
The Opel GT was an excellent car with a 400 stroker, I found that to be true, it's sitting in my garage right now.
I liked the opel GT but it was a little over priced. But it sure was sharp, looked like a mini Corvette! I did drive one an it was fun.
Don’t remember the Opel GT having a V8 in it.
GM has continually gone down hill from the great 60s and 70s to lost in space.
this car reminds me strongly of a car called the opel gt made by the german brand adam opel ag in 1968 to 1973...and opel used to be a subsidiary of GM for almost 88 years until they sold to the french motor company psa in 2017...in germany we also called the opel gt "mini corvette"... but i can imagine opel took some inspiration for the gt from this pontiac.
There were a few Opel GT and Manta vehicles in Southern California where I grew up in that era. I don't know how popular these models were in the rest of the US.
@@chairman-jenkem-yogurt ya i lived in so cal in the 80´s and early 90´s before moving back to germany in 96...we were german migrants and my step dad opened a small well running repair shop for european cars and i remember seeing a few german import mantas and gt´s come into the shop to get inspections and such, do to the orange county and anaheim area having a pretty large german community...and i cant tell you how often people came in just to ask what cars these are...
my guess is if you saw these cars in the US then mostly in areas with german communities near by since these cars are imports and not the typical kind like porsche, mercedes, and co...you kind of had to be a german culture insider to even know the brand opel...
@@TheBirdFlu666 well if you drove an opal it must have been a real jewel...lol...
but if you drove a 1958 opel it was probably a kapitän or olympia and honestly many cars from that era where rust buckets if you did´nt care right for them...cavity sealing with wax and galvanizing body panels was´nt all that common and paint layers where thin in the 50´s so most cars that where exposed to wind and weather year round rusted away within a few years if you had a poor care and maintanence game...
and you got to remember 58 was 10 years after ww2 and germany was still rebuilding parts of the country...so they had better to do then produce high quality metal sheets for body panels...at that time many car parts where sourced cheaply from other countries...that and from 56 to 57 german metal industy workers started the longest strike against the bad work conditions in german history...so you truly picked a bad year to drive a car from germany!
but that been said you´ve also gotta remember opel was/is no brand like mercedes...opel´s focus was allways to produce affordable cars for the average people and like most cars of that kind they have to save on cost´s somewhere and thats usually the quality of the parts they use!
@@pauls.8748 Grew up on the east coast and old enough to have been around when the Opel GT was new. They weren't what I would call common to see but not that rare either saw plenty of them. I thought they were a mini Corvette back then.
@@stuglenn1112 ya the production numbers of the gt were a little over 100,000 cars, and do to the baby corvette design it caught the eye of americans pretty quick...and actually almost half of all the cars produced got imported to the US and Buick overtook all things marketing and distribution...but concidering the size and population of america then the around 50,000 cars is´nt that big of a number and still made them a pretty rare sight...
and i cant speak for the 60´s and 70´s or the east coast...but i know that in the 80´s and 90´s on the west coast these cars became a very rare sight...many did´nt age very well do to rust issues and those that did make it you primarilly saw in areas with german communities who still knew what opel even was.
Excellent capture, thanks, I never knew of the cars. But it enforces this observation: Ever since they've been rolling out concept cars, every single one of them screams: "These are what we're capable of making, but instead - you get the Pinto, Vega and Pacer." Society is retarded by the industrial scale stifling of it's artisans thanks to pusillanimous executives with an over supply of dullness accented by their myopia.
Pusillanimous...now there's a word one doesn't see every day. Very apropos.
Wow, 16,000 views in the first 11 hours! Bravo! Finally getting the attention you deserve. Always a pleasure to watch your videos, glad you've kept up the hard work! Thanks!
That thumbnail pic is pretty sweet.
Very nice work here. I actually knew someone who told me a story about these 2 cars many years ago. Great video.
The side lines on the XPs look so much like the 1969 Ponitac Firebird. (I owned one in red.) The chrome front grill and the rear lights are very similar.
So it's basically a 1968 corvette concept car.
A couple of years ago, Napoli Classics in CT had the coupe for sale.
FYI: Every Pontiac engine from the 287 to the 455 used the same outside block dimensions.
326-455 had the same outside dimensions.
301 had a short deck.
326, 350, 389, 400 had 3" mains.
421, 428, 455 had 3.25" mains.
@@user-gq4hz7rh6k Agreed. The point being that here and elsewhere writers report, "We can fit a 389 in there." When anywhere a 326 fits, the 389/400/455 will fit. Pontiac already put a 421 in the first gen Tempest.
@@rondpert5167 Understood..point taken.
Outstanding video!
Truly what might have been. Except GM brass would never have agreed to produce a competitor to their darling Corvette. Instead they essentially took the Banshee from Pontiac and slapped C3 Vette emblems on it. Typical.
I'll never forgive GM for shuttering Pontiac and keeping Buick. A tragedy.
China is why. In China, Buicks are the equivalent of a Mercedes or BMW. They were the preferred chariot of the rich and powerful.
@@benn454 I have heard that but, is that really the case in 2023? The affluent Chinese would seem to have moved beyond Buick as the status symbol of wealth and success.
@@msh6865 Recently, yeah. The Chinese car industry is in a much better place than they were back in 2008. Nowadays, the market has shifted to more domestic Chinese marques.
I bought my girst car at 13 years old. Was a 1951 Pontiac Chieftain convertible with a huge straight 8. When I think of what that car would be worth these days, the nausea just sets in
Pontiac suffered terribly from GM's management. They would not allow Pontiac to use forged connecting rods for most of their engines. This is why Pontiac engines could not be made into drag racing applications. The Armasteel or pearlitic malleable iron rods that they were allowed to use were usually good enough for normal street applications. Such as a 389 engine with only three 2 barrel carburetors. I had two of these rods fail by fatigue fractures after I reused them in a 326 rebuild. About 100,000 miles later. So my standard advice for rebuilding a Pontiac engine is to not reuse the connecting rods, but buy new ones.
But the aftermarket suppliers are not beholden to GM management so they can supply forged connecting rods for Pontiac applications. Which might be the way to go if you want a supercharged drag racer or a rebuild that lasts 300,000 miles.
Please tell me more about that. i was wondering why didn't Pontiac used forged connecting rods. you are telling me that Gm management didn't allow pontiac to use forged rods?? i tought it was Pontiac's decision to use cast rods
@@jaskopeter813I’ve never heard anyone other than this guy claim that daddy GM made that decision, I’ve always known that as a Pontiac misstep.
I have been a Car Person my whole life, and I never seen these Cars. They all were Beautiful. The Cougar II was fantastic. The Banshee was very Interesting. Imagine what they All would have been now... Excellent Video.
I've seen the Banshee. It's currently owned by a classic car dealer in CT.
DeLorean snuck the GTO past top brass. Too bad this got shot down.
Imo one of the best researched and video about Pontiac no bs just facts OUTSTANDING VIDEO
To not mention the Buick Opel GT in all of this is just unconscionable.
Surely there lies the inspiration for the smaller, European version, the Opel GT. Just look at that frontal treatment at 13/;54 !
Great video, thanks.
4:00 Man thanks for the video, it reminds me my red 2207 Pontiac Soltice, but more vintage that I like it ❤
I had the pleasure of seeing this car in person at the Iola Wisconsin Old Car Show about 20 years ago. I hope the owner was able to get my drool off the paint, it's truly a work of automotive art.
1989 Fiero prototype was axed because Chevy executives did not want Corvette competition for a cheaper price. I had an 86 and 87 Fiero GT. The 88 Fiero was the best with new Lotus suspension and other improvements.
General Motors Holden’s made the Torana GTR-X concept/prototype using the Torana platform they produced a very similar product.
Great Documentary i remember watching this back in my youth years thanks for sharing this video 😊
5:41 the Metcury concept is Fvcken Fantastic !! GM stole it for mk 2 Camaro ! I love it Cheers from New Zealand 🇳🇿
Back in 2009 Killen's 6 cylinder coupe came up for sale. I somewhat remember that it was being offered through an auto dealer in New York. I'd never heard of the Banshee (or as you have clarified for me the XP833) before and thought it was a really cool looking car. So, I copied all 34 pictures from the listing and I still have those photos in a folder on my desktop today. They had it up for sale as a, "1964 Pontiac Banshee prototype". I have no idea as to who may have bought it but back in 2009 it was in really great shape and could have passed for brand new. *_Excellent video!_* 👍
A company making these kind of decisions deserves to go bankrupt.
An interesting thought. The block dimensions of the Pontiac V8's from the muscle car years were the same. You could literally remove a 301 Pontiac engine and drop in a 455 and use the same engine mounts. These cars may have started life with a Pontiac 326, but it would have been only a matter of time before they received Ram Air Iv 400's and HO455's.
100% correct. I feel that GM’s 400CI limit in A body cars was to prevent Pontiac from ruling the performance scene at GM. There would have been $0 added to allow Pontiac to install a 421 in the original GTO or the later 428. They finally lifted that for the 1970 model year which was the pinnacle of GM performance and the first year for Pontiac and Buick’s 455. Oldsmobile was given the green light for their 455 for sharing the FWD Toronado with Cadillac in 1968. But Pontiac had stuffed most of their high performance R&D into the 400 because it was the biggest engine allowed into their high performance cars. It always puzzled me as to how the 1969 428 HO had a 390 HP rating but the 455 was only rated at 370 HP in 1970.
The front design reminds me of the first Lamborghini design from Franco Scaglione from 1963 for the 3.5 litre Coupe which was rejected from Feruccio L. It had also hidden front lights with that division…
Just what I thought
THE CORVETTE WAS A SACRED COW. On the quiet in GM HQ, no one wanted it seriously challenged or toppled.
What great cars those could gave been!
Nice presentation, informative, well done!
Wait i thought that "We Build Excitement PONTIAC" even a song bro....
Thanks for that! I appreciate the history!
There was a Pontiac version of the Vette at the Gilmore Car Museum, north of Kalamazoo, Mi.
The SP6 and XP models look great. I drove a Pontiac Tempest for a while it is fun and with a fairly cheap price too then, it remains an interesting brand yet.
I think Mr Collins was one of my customers in 90. Pest control at that time in West Central Fl. @ 13:58 I saw the model of that on his book shelf.
Where are these two cars now I would love to see them you never said where they went or where they are stored
they didn't give the Beach Boys a chance to sing about the Banshee.
Is it possible, that the Banshee concept was inspiration for the Opel GT? Looks an awful like it. Beautiful cars.
If they were allowed to make that imagine what the fiero would be
$180K is a drop in the bucket of a current Automotive executive salary.
My first car was a '75 Formula Firebird. It is funny how attached you can become to a car. I miss it to this day.
Dear Barchetta, these views are reflective of the quality of your videos, please keep going!
It was from these men that the Pontiac Fiero was made in 1984. Although cancelled after 5 years of production the mid engine 2 seater that Delorean deperately wanted to build with Pontiac goes on to still be on the road today driven the world over.
Pontiac was always a threat to Chevy! Long live Pontiac.
Yup. And GM always sided with Chevy.
Thanks. I recognize several design elements that made it into my '68 Firebird. First car will always be my favorite. ;^)
Happy to see a new video.
Beautiful sports cars. We did get the more expensive Corvette and Pontiac's sports commuter car.
Reminds me of the AMC Javelin. I find it also curious that the Corvette to a lot of the body stylings of this Pontiac.
The vette is what killed the banshee, the GM auto group was not going to allow a car that even came close to the corvette. The vette had a foothold of followers and that's what sank em, it's that simple.
Congratulations!!
I saw one that's on display in Milford CT at Napoli Classic Motors a few years ago. I thought it was an early 70's corvette. Until I saw the 1.2 million dollar price tag.
This Ford at 5:17 sure does have a lot of Corvette-esque features from that top down view.
I remember when my grandparents bought a brand new 1956 Pontiac. I can still smell that new car smell it had. It was a very good car. I've always liked Pontiacs but I never had one. I had mostly Fords.
Too bad. If Pontiac was allowed this prototype to market, we'd see them and Firebird all over the place. Banshee was hot. Opel GT?
Someone needs to build these beautiful cars…! The Banshee AND the Cougar.
4:40,... Mustang 1,.. Inline 4 you say,... while showing the V4 that was in the concept car, which came from Ford Germany and was the engine that powered multiple models including the original Transit Van.
I remember seeing this car when I was growing up and really wanted it
Then I turned 16 and fell in love with my 67 Firebird later on in a couple years meet my wife she had a 68 firebird
After a couple more years we found a 68 Convertible 400 HO it wasn’t in great shape but we had fun in in it not going to tell the disgrace full amount I had to sell it for but it went to a good home
Roche had his head where the sun did not shine.
Interesting piece of automotive history. Thank you.
Gam axed delireon s Banshee, which- was built along side, loosely,, the Opel GT concept. Opel gt went into production early 68- Corvette followed 2 months later, with the C3.. they axed the Banshee, and stole the design..Good ole GM..smh..
That rear corner view at 8.30 looks so much like a Bizzarrini 5300 GT Strada!
the shot of the ford showed a v4 german engine not a inline 4 as stated and that cougar 2 sure looked like a 63 Vette.GM certainly had styling people that were fantastic.
Good to see the Banshee get some attention. Great looking car!
I owned a 68 firebird convertible from 83-92. Beautiful car but I have to admit the 68 Camaro rs/ss convertible was my favorite.
I think my 1989 GTA needs remodeling. Great documentary
Excellent video very informative.
My first two cars were Pontiacs. Absolutely loved everything about both of them. My first car in 2008 was a 1998 Firebird and it was an absolute magnet for both women and police, it was a T-top with removable sun roofs on either side. Around 2013 I bought a 2002 Pontiac Bonneville my second car which wasn’t nearly as sleek as the Firebird but was much more comfortable and quick for a full sized sedan 2002. The Bonneville was the group choice for long distance drives and road trips.
TLDR; Buy a used Pontiac! You won’t regret it.
I actually owned a Cougar II. It was red with black seat and it was awesome!! Now that was in the early 70's and it was a bicycle but it came with with a 2 seater banana seat and heavy gauge spoked wheels but it was awesome and I loved it. I was always told by my Dad and Uncle that it was named after a car that never was.... and now I know. (I still miss that bike; it was killer with its big assed rear wheel, front rake and red flaked paint - so bitchin' until I grew up a bit and learned to fit a case of beer in the curled handlebars, when turned to face up and make a "24 case holder"; good times until Disco happened .......
I think it's pretty ironic that Pontiac is probably best known now for the Trans Am, made famous by Burt Reynolds in "Smokey and the Bandit".😉
My friend had a 78' Pontiac LeMans. It had a 3.8 liter 6 cylinder but my buddy told me you could bolt a 400 c.i. V-8 in it no problem. He had that car for years and it was matenence free. Except for oil changes and brakes...
As a technical point of reference, all the Pontiac V8s of that era came from the so-called "big block" family... even the 326 c.i.d. " Small " V8.....they could all be easily substituted for each other. This is not a common situation....( you research oriented folks, see " small block " vs ." big block" Chevys. Variations in block deck height were the only issue......but they figured it out, spectacularly!
Pontiac needed somebody with nerve. The Car Gods sent them Bunkie and John Z. The division survived another 50+ years.
I will always miss my tricked out 66 Le Mans....it was ( along with my best friend Charlie's silly guick 69 GTO) the bane of other Levittown street racers existence.
Nice job on the video. Thanks.
Pontiac blocks were intermediate size. Bigger than a small block Chevy but smaller than a big block. It is actually closer in size to the SBC. It is like a SBC on steroids. You are partially correct in calling them big blocks. The Oldsmobile and Buick big blocks were basically a tall deck version of their small blocks. In that thinking Pontiac would have only introduced their “small block” in 1977 with the 301.
Thanks for your thoughts.
To my best knowledge (admittedly imperfect), I was told that, in the weird universe of GM, the big block/small block issue was
a measure of dubious merit, based the bore centers!
Huh? Why? Who knows...
PS: never laid a wrench on Olds or Buick; not qualified to support or dispute your comment.
Good News: all us old motor heads are not, apparently dead.
If you are a young gearhead:
Welcome aboard!
@@hughbarton5743 I’m far from an expert. I’ve never worked on a Buick V8 or even owned one. I’ve had an Olds 350 and 455, 2 Pontiac 400s and have a 455 on a stand and a TPI Chevy 350. All Pontiacs share the same bore spacing though not sure about the 265 and 301. Also not sure on the Olds and Buick. Obviously the Chevys don’t share the same bore spacing.
how about a deep dive on the cougar 2? i built a model of it when i was a kid. total crime that it was never made.
Agreed it was... Beautiful
To anyone that is interested the one and only Pontiac banshee is for sale at Napoli motors in milford ct.
Front end looks like a cross between an Opel GT and a Bizzarrini.......nice!
Pontiac was the first company to build what most people love as the Camaro but was known as The Firebird.
Because General Motors owned Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac, and GMC... they had the ultimate say-so on what goes.
So the CEOs at General Motors told Pontiac that you can not release the Firebird until we redesign your Firebird as a Camaro... to put it basically.
Pontiac also designed a 3 valve motor back in the 60s, and the leaders at General Motors said no.
The Camaro was introduced first because it was the lower priced F body. The Firebird introduction was pushed back and delayed because John DeLorean insisted the Firebird had to be superior to the Camaro in every way. Pontiac is my favorite car maker of all time but this is how I understand the story went. In fact Oldsmobile was supposed to have a version of the F body but because Pontiac took too long to introduce the Firebird, Oldsmobile got screwed out of their version.
@@mikee2923 Yes, you are correct. General Motors didn't want the Firebird being released "first" even though it was on the drawing board along with a prototype.
General Motors took the plans altered it and made the Camaro. Then said to Pontiac...you can now release the Firebird.
They didn't like the 6.6 Ltr Trans Am So they shitcanned that as well, blaming emissions.
In the 80s Pontiac came up with the Fiero. It was starting to be almost as fast as a Corvette in the qtr mile on on the road racing tracks. Despite its very short production run...claiming people didnt want it and it had issues. I've fixed same year production cars and trucks from Ford. Everything has issues.
GM stepped in again and said no no no no no no.
During the last Model Firebird 4th gen WS6 TA...
GM stepped in again saying no you can't do that. It's almost as fast as the Corvette.
During the government bail out.
General Motors did not want the competition from its own sister company. Letting Pontiac go instead getting rid of grandma's Oldsmobile, Buick.
General Motors has made a lot of piss poor decisions based upon emotions instead of letting the progression of Technology through competition.
4:00 I want that in metallic lime green please, with matt black striping. And the red line tires and 5 spoke mag wheels are a "must have" combo. I'd take that over a Camaro or Corvette any day.
And then I ended up going bankrupt how many times ?
Pontiac didn’t slip.
GM told them to dial it down.
The 1982 Trans Am would have been more powerful and faster.
GM wanted the Corvette to be the flagship car, even though it was not
I’m the same class of car as the pony cars.
They killed the Olds mid 1950s sport car too so it wouldnt compete with the Vette