Honestly, I dont get this Jokic disrespect. Whenever Jokic is the clear frontrunner or about to win MVP, they find someone who would also deserve it but not as much as Jokic.
@@Kevin-fj3ff How? Where are the Mavs? They're not even top 5 in the West so how tf does Luka deserve the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER award over a guy who is leading his team to the top? You people are delusional.
@@deansaylor9164if you take jokic off the nuggets they are still strong enough to make the playoffs. You take luka off the mavs they dont make it plain and simple
Why?????????- well I mean…. Do u think…… JOKIC would be “happy”… if …. somebody else…. ANY.. body.. else won the mvp….? …. ….sooooo… ur basically ADMITTING… he has a PREFERENCE….? dare I say….. is that a form of…. r*cism😶….😩😭🤦♂️💀 So he’d be happy if he didn’t win as long as it’s a Serb hunh?? 😂🤦♂️JK but nr tho lol
@@moshimoshi4654 not really a popularity contest in his case. Bunch of people watching NBA only found out why he won it b2b last playoffs, when he was destroying KAT, Gobert, AD, Bam, KD, Bron and Adebayo.
@@darnellwilliams8783 -- Jokic is a shape like Shaq. But 2 MVPs, more games than Embiid, and still has won a FMVP ? If he ain't one of the best players in the world then I don't know who is.
@@darnellwilliams8783 what are you talking about? He has the best shape out of all the super stars out there. He's the most consistent player in the league
if sabonis was 1st in the league and jokic was 6th Who do you think would win the mvp? jokic right? there Is 6ppg point difference between sabonis and jokic...... between jokic and Luka there are 8.... thats how big of a gap stat wise there Is + Denver won both games jokic and Murray missed = Denver Is such a greatly meshed and well coaches team that they'd still find ways to win
@@El_reecio you know that this year jokic isn't dominating and Luka and jokic are pretty mutch there with the advanced stats right? you can check It by searching "Advanced stat Leaders Nba" and Luka and jokic are close in everyone of them... jokic Is above in 2 more but lively and gafford are 1st and 2nd in 2 Advanced stat metrics just cuz of Luka so your statement isn't true my guy but nice try...
I don't know why people always want to downplay Jokic's '22 MVP when it was one of the greatest seasons by a player statistically. First of all he had recorded the highest PER ever. And besides all his insane offensive numbers, he also had a better defensive rating than Giannis and Embiid. Jokic actually had a better individual winning % than the other candidates, the only reason his record wasn't better was because the depleted Nuggets were an abysmal 2-6 without him(on top of losing every game he left early from injury or ejection), meanwhile the other candidates' teams still had a winning record without them. Even then, Jokic had his team within 1 or 2 games of Giannis and Embiid's teams pretty much the whole year, Luka hasn't had his team anywhere near Jokic, SGA or Giannis' teams despite having Kyrie.
And Jokic that season had the highest +/- in the history of this sport (13,7). He could also brake it this year because he had 14,5 at some point, but I'm sure until the end of his career, he will surpass even his own record.
@@AMINOMMA individual defensive metric for me isn't good indicator for being elite defensive player, to make first team all defense for example, but for me defensive metric definitely gives you some picture wether or not that player plays defense or not. People say Jokic is terrible defender, he doesn't play defense and I don't know what. I'm sorry, but you can't be liability on defensive end and in the dame time having the best defensive +/- last 3 years in a row. In 2022 he was even tied with Tatum for the best defensive winshares in the league. All of that while averaging 1,5 steals which is great for a center and 0,9 blocks.
The problem for me is not that Jimmy don't respect Jokic, I think it comes from his take on why now the NBA has this numbers on scoring, for him the answer is that the players are too talented, that is another flaw in his arguments if you ask me. In general terms I like his arguments, but in this case I don't and the reason for that is not because of the lack of logic or numbers, but, a mistake on critical thinking. His argument was that today's offense is so good that is imposible to stop it, but in the same video he made a colossal mistake, he argues that the reason for that is not the rule changes or the lack of defense, but just that the new players learn from the past and perfected the offensive game. But, this could be also true for defense, it's a no brainer, if offense can be perfected also defense can be perfected, but Jimmy didn't put that on the table, he talks in his last video about "we're done with the 90's" that the players now a days are better because they have practiced a lot the perfection of the movements and strategies of the past (I agree with this), but also because the rules now a days allow you to do movements that in those days were imposible to do, so it's also a product of the rules of the time (and I also agree with this), but that's exactly the point on this case, defense now a days is trying to survive the modern rules of the NBA, not evolving like offense is doing. So, Luca is an amazing player yes, but like you said, he take advantage on the rules conditions of the NBA, Luca himself admit that in an interview some days ago, but Jimmy don't want to see that 'cause it would be a case against his argument.
You’re definitely right, the evidence against these players being so great offensively that they could not be stopped, is that the NBA referees have called the game different since All-Star break, and scoring has dropped precipitously. So really, it’s all about how the game is officiated. I think it’s crazy, people that argue that point will not acknowledge the gather step, no hand checking, foul baiting. Of course dudes back in the day could do that if you have them an extra step. All these moves guys do today were done on the blacktop by players back in the day.
People forget that Steven Adams led the league in screen assists, offensive rebounds, AND boxouts that season. He created more opportunities and space for russ than ever before.
luka is amazing, but jokic is just as amazing with the first seed in the west. it's just unfortunate he chose to go ballistic during one of the toughest MVP races ever (shai, giannis, joker and luka all putting up historic seasons) so you have to split hairs somewhere.
@@MaximusR93the Mavericks have been a top 3 injured team. They would literally be a lottery team without him especially cause Kai missed a lot of games.
the real difference is that luka has the highest usage rate ever (how long you hold the ball on offense), but jokic is not even top 20! that is so incredible, that jokic is able to do what he does and he doesn’t even hold the ball for as long as 20-25 other guys in the nba. there are only 30 teams… jokic’s league best on-off point differential, and the nuggets being the 1 seed are obviously also important points
@@Joe_Ma99Embiid and Giannis are both big men that rank in the top 3 in overall usage pct. In fact there’s quite a few big men that rank higher in usage over Jokic. The fact is, Jokic doesn’t need the ball in his hands all that much to put up the insane stat lines and advanced numbers he puts up, his efficiency is literally that astronomical.
The over all premise is that Luka should win MVP (if Jokic didn't exist).. But Jokic does exist and is the most valuable.. It's called MOST valuable player of the league. I think Luka is phenomenal! I feel like Jimmy's argument is close to the same that was used for Embiid last year. "But look how good he is!!" Yeah we see how amazing a lot of the players are, but are they truly the "most" valuable player of the entire league for that season?
Its crazy that Jokic has been accused of stat padding. If he was stat padding, he would have been averaging 35 pts per game rather than less than 30. Also, the same people who accused Jokic of stat padding also overlook how other players like Lebron have literally been caught looking at stat sheets during blowout losses.
the stat padding argument is so retarded when u ONLY just look at his near triple doubles.... can you imagine a scenario where westbrook is 1 or 2 assists short of a triple double and he exists the game, or sits out the entire fourth quarter?.... there is 0 chance jokic does it ALL THE TIME
No he isnt??? niko is averaging 8 less points and is in nothing else better than Luka the only thing he has is a better team but individually Doncic is much better this year
@@Joe_Ma99 So Porter and Murray would be able to carry the team to a championship without Jokic ? And I thought I read dumb takes before , then I read yours 😆
The only reason the Mavs record is worse is because of injuries, and his supporting cast beyond Kyrie has been absolute garbage. Imagine if he had Gafford and Washington throughout the year?
would be seed 1 , since trade deadline they beat Denver Luka dismentaled Jokic , they beat OKC they lost 2nd game against OKC without Luka by 7 points only
I wholeheartedly agree that Jokic is clear MVP but Doncic is also a clear second and not that much behind of Jokic. What i think Jimmy is trying to say is that team success should be less weighted. Most valuable player should be who is making the biggest impact on their team. Dallas is severely underperforming when Luka is not playing and he is putting up insane numbers. That is what the conversation should be about. Who is the best player and making the most impact on the team. Tatum is putting up good numbers for an example but Boston is actually having better numbers when he is on the field, stats can be very misleading if not used in the right context. Good video overall tho!
Lol SGA and Giannis are also avg over 30 ppg, with great efficiency, teams #2 in standings AND they play defense. Luka should be 4th unless Mavs somehow crack top 4 in West
@@PoatanCombatSportGOAT But what more can you except if his teammates are this bad? He needs to be averaging 45+ points per game to actually lead a team to the top 4 LOL. This is exactly my point he is literally doing everything good but his team is just not helping him at all.
@@tdup191 Not saying they arent in the MVP race, ofc they are. I would probably say that they are closer to doncic in 2nd then Doncic is to Jokic. Also the Mavs are 2 wins away from cracking top 4 which just shows how competetive Luka has made them even with little help from teammates. Also is only 4 wins away from the bucks which are second lol. Stop pretending that there is a HUGE difference between the teams in the west. They are all super competetive which neglects the standing argument even more.
4th because you forgot about Larry Legend, remember…. A wise man once said…. If I had to choose a basketball player to shoot the ball & save a game, I’d choose Michael Jordan, but if I had to choose a basketball player to shoot the ball & save my life, I’d choose Larry Bird.
@@Brickwilliams Yeah Kareem too, Magic should be in the conversation as well because the whole beginning of the NBA’s golden age started with both him and Larry Bird, and their great rivalry. Magic was a great basketball player and showman altogether, he brought many many more eyes to the NBA with his talent, charm, & charisma. Jokic definitely deserves to be in the conversation when it comes to Top 5 greatest NBA basketball players of all time, Hell!! It may even be debatable to put him in the top 5 too as well. As his resume grows throughout the years, he will definitely deserve to be in everyone’s top 5 conversation. One thing that is important when judging how great a player is, is not only their skills, physical attributes and dominance, but also how they carry themselves on and off the court, around their teammates, reporters, analysts and fans too. As well as how they treat the game itself, when they feel like they will die if they don’t play good or even win, the types that push themselves beyond their limits to win, & push their teammates to become better too as well, weather it’s a love or hate relationship where the end result is still them winning. That’s how I judge the great players from the good players and the bad ones.
@@jerrym1218 demeanor is important, but jokic isn’t over guys like Hakeem, duncan, shaq, wilt, Russell yet, he’s got to make it happen but if the present is any sign of the future he will pass those players
I agree joker is mvp but the Luka disrespect is getting crazy. Dude improved his defense and is putting up generational numbers, I’m not sure what else he can do
Dallas being an 8th seed is kinda not true, they're 7th in fact, and their conference is so stacked together that every game makes a difference. The other hidden metric of impact is the fact that, not only the mvp should elevate it's team, but his team should also elevate its mvp, which the Nuggets do better than Dallas, since most of the bench and even some starters are not really consistent and have more downs than ups. In the end is hard to measure ofc, and Jxmy I believe is not underestimating Jokic case for mvp, but the fact Luka being in 5th/6th place is ludicrous. That said, Luka is still young, he will have more chances... unless Wemby kinda starts sweeping every award there is.
Also the fact that the Mavs were 1 of the most injured teams for half the season while Luka was doing a carry job to keep them in the play in... Now after they got healthy Dallas is dominating and has been climbing the ladder. They're like 2 wins from 5th.
As a Lakers Fan. When Jokic destroys you like this in a sweep and then beat you every game, not much you can say. Im sure most people think AD is a really good defender but look how Jokic can cook him. He is too much a team player to chase stats otherwise it would be a wrap. Denver is the 1 Seed and if we make it through the play in we play them lol
Yes but the problem is the Mavs have Kyrie Irving while the Nuggets have zero allstars besides Jokic. Like I guarantee you if Kyrie was on the nuggets Jokic would make him a hell of a lot better.
@@Cpro9692 things. Kyrie has missed a quarter of the year, and second, kyrie is having the best season of his career, by far, this year. This idea that luka makes teammates worse is absurd...
@@Cpro969 Jamal Murray has been robbed time and time again of an All-Star appearence, but make no mistake, he's one of the best PGs in the league. Kyrie is obivously better, but the difference is not that great to really put a dent on the Nuggets.
I agree with most things you said, but you didn't mention the fact that Kyrie missed a lot of games this season, same as Kleber, Exum and the fact that with that roster, without Kyrie, I think Dallas are easily the worst team in the whole league. And Luka had to long time with players like that before Kyrie returning back and being more consistent. Soo maybe these Dallas are better than OKC Thunder in 2017 with Kyrie, but the point is they weren't always with Kyrie and when Kyrie wasn't on the court... This team was definitely worse than OKC in 2017 ao I definitely think Luka is playing more impressive basketball this season than Westbrook in 2017. He doesn't average triple double, but averages almost a triple double, he averages 4 points more than Westbrook and his overall efficiency are waay better than Westbrook.
I watch every Jxmy video that comes out religiously, but the problem with that video in particular is that he compares Luka's numbers to everybody and everything in the last 40 years EXCEPT for Jokic's numbers this year. Luka lead the league in PPG...Jokic leads the league in EVERY SINGLE ADVANCED OFFENSIVE METRIC that is measured. It's not even close when you looks at their numbers side by side which is the ONE thing that Jxmy didn't do.
@@jonz23mok acting like Mavs wasn’t injured and needed luka to carry the offense alone, u can have ur opinion jokic is the mvp and is better but you acting like luka is at fault in why mavs isn’t winning games 😂😂😂
@@enryu8449 lol the injured excuse 😂. Y'all use the same script. There no reason for luka to pounding the ball this much compared to actually playing in a coherent system it's less effective and will always be, in this thing called team sport. No matter how you are trying to cope, playing like luka will always be a stat padding play style that won't lead to much championship success unless the team is completely stacked.
@@aster0id225 lmao. Why you getting emotional? Jimmy has said verbatim “Lebron is my King.” May I ask why you’re bringing up MJ? You do understand, you can still be a Lebby Stan and think someone else is the GOAT. Stop creating hate in your head when I’m just stating a fact. Lmao. Have a good day.
@@richerichism I'm not getting emotional, it's just that a lot of people with similar statements like yours seem to just hate Lebron without any valid points. You have a good day, too.
@@aster0id225 You are not wrong. This guy gets emotional and triggered that you called out his hateful remark about Jimmy for liking LBJ. He's hypocrite to say the least. With a PHD in gas lighting.
He is saying MJ is the goat, but no videos prove that as a topic. He's just saying that to keep people involved in the convo and maybe even persuade them
Jokic in 2022 was 2/3 wins behind Embiid and Giannis with a G league teammates who don't even play in the NBA anymore while Embiid/Giannis were on stacked teams. He actually won more games then them as he played more than them. This season Luka is 9 wins behind Jokic while also playing 7 games less...as much as I love Luka there is absolutely no argument for him over Jokic this season.
Nararative is aslo very important. In 2017. When Westbrook won the MVP, not only did he avarage 30 point triplr double, but becouse KD left him in summer of 3016. Everyone frlt bad for Russ, yet carried OKC to 6th seed in tough western conference. When Jokif eon the MVP in 2022. as 6th seed, hie 2nd (Jamal) and 3rd (MPJ) best players were injured for a WHOLE season, and yet Nikola lead his monstars maed out of Monte Morris, Will Barton, 35 y/o Jeff Green, Gordon, (Austin Rivers, Facundo Campazzo, Ja Mxchal Green, Bones Hyland, Davon Reed, Zeke Naji and Bryn Forbes bench) to 48 wine and 6th seed. That same season top seeds in the east eere Heat with 53 wins and Celtics, Bucks, 76ers with 51 wins each, while in the west Sune had 64 eins with Booker and CP3 and Grizzlies had 56 wins ( Mavs were 4th seed with 52 wins). Out of all of those teams, the only players seen as a threat for MVP were Embiid and Giannis and their teams only had 3 wins more than injury riddled Nuggets. So, the Narrative was if Nikola had his boys to play alongside with, Denver would've been top 2 seed (which they proved in thr following 2022/23 season)
To be fair my man, the Mavs have dealt with the most injuries this year and has played the most lineups due to it and Luka is still 34 points, 9 rebounds now 10 assists on crazy good shooting splits based on his attempts. He actually has an argument for being an outlier, because he already is, but he also at least HAS to be a top 5'ish seed and have like two extraordinary performances to go.
Looking at the seeding in the west is stupid . Mavs could be #6 #5 in 3 games . They had TONS of injuries in the beginning. And Luka carried this team. Jokic won as a #6 seed
Jokic was 2 games behind Embiid while Luka is 8 games behind Jokic, Jokic had better advanced stats (still does), better on/off rating (still does), didn't have 2nd option and 3rd option played 9 games, Kyrie has played only 5 less games than Murray this year. Luka is a great MVP candidate, but Jokic is a better one.
When you think of value on the basketball court Jokic is easily the most valuable. He has the stats, and when it comes to advanced stats he clearls Luka by a wide margin, and on top of that he has the impact on winning, leading his team to the #1 seed in the stacked west. As much as I really love Luka, this is not a real conversation.
Its Sabonis that is getting the disrespect. Double Double machine and didn't make the All Star Roster? He should be 2nd or 3rd in MVP carrying Sac to the playoffs.
@@xSilentknifegaming Finals. 3x MVP. Finals MVP. Already the greatest center to ever live. Revived one of the worst franchises in NBA history that bore even English, Anthony, Iverson, or Billups could do.
yet talks about what luka has on the team when the team had injuries and they didn't play as full team but only talks about jokic that he had no help and he had injured teammates... jokic is one of the greates can't argue with that but it is strange how MVP actualy works
I do agree with some things you have to say but there is a couple flaws I noticed. First flaw in your argument, your not accounting all the injuries the mavs had at the beginning of the season and especially kyrie which resulted in alot of losses. Second flaw you say that you can’t consider luka for mvp because he’s the 8 seed but what your not accounting is how competitive the west is and how close the 5th - 8th seed are. As of this very moment the mavs just blew out the kings 132 - 96 and are currently sitting at the 6th seed, same as 2022 jokic and 2017 westbrook. I’m not saying luka deserves mvp over jokic but he should atleast be 2nd.
As a nuggets fan, Jokic is the MVP. I just dont like that Luka is not getting the credit he deserves for being an offensive juggernaut. Winner take all for one game I dont want the nuggets to play the mavs, 7 game series much more confidence.
@@COcruiser you're goddamn right. I'd bet my house with the Mavs on any series besides Denver. It would be my dream to see a WCF against Luka and Jokic. That would be a dog fight. Whoever wins, I'm happy.
Bro you make the videos with the most context, I watch every video you make. I don’t know why you don’t make more. Keep ‘em coming cause I use ur context when I’m debating with the young heads.
The argument against Luka due to record needs to take in account that these key players have missed this many games: Kyrie (22), Lively (19) Josh Green (18), Exum (26), Kleber (37), THJ (0). Key Denver players have missed this many games: Murray (19), MPJ (1), Gordon (7), KCP (6), Jackson (0), Braun(0). OKC has also been one of the least injured teams in the league. There's a decent chance the Mavs can get to 4th and might have been 3rd or higher had they not been so injury prone.
Luka Magic has played all season with tons of injuries. He’s carried the team on his shoulders and they’re about to move into 6th place. That’s an MVP to me.
MVP means "most VALUABLE player". You can have all the stats you want, but if your performance isn't providing VALUE to your team, they are empty stats. And guess how you determine value to a team? That's right: actually WINNING games.
Dallas is winning games. The fuck are you even talking about? They've been injured most of the season. They're finally healthy and are the most in-form team in the league.
You fail to debunk the arguments. Lukas combined production was not compared only to Karem, and players 30 years ago, as you said The comparison was against the average combined production of ALL MVPs, where Luka was second all time. Those players of 30 years ago just happen to be second. You can see Lebron and other people down in the list. Your argument on Luka having inflated numbers is also failed. You suggested that Jokic and Russell won MVP because their teams having a more modest roster as compared to Dallas. But you never brought Dallas's roster production, only that of Denver and OKC. Save for Kyre, is hard to argue Luka has had more help than Jokic and Russell had. But even if so, your argument is entirely subjective as there are no stats to back up the claim that Luka inflated his numbers while Jokic and Russell didn't. There is also no evidence to prove that those two contributed more to their teams winning games. It is ridiculous Luka is fifth in the MVP race. With Embid out on injury, Luka's numbers are the best from an individual contribution standpoint, and it is true at least two MVPs have been in teams with similar winning percentage. Moreover, the question your competitor brings to the table remains: is this an award to the best player? An award to the best player in the best team? Is an interesting question. The name been Most Valuable Player, strictly speaking, it should go to the player that has the highest relative weight on his team success ratio. So it shouldn't go to the best player in the best team necessarily, because said team may have other important players contributing of said success. It shouldn't go to the best player neither, because that may not be good enough to ensure success. That is why for example, Steve Nash winning MVP over Kobe was not an error, as many people suggest. The question should be then which player has the highest relative weight, on his team, and has resulted in a successful season. Successful season should also be relative, since is not the same for Boston or Denver to make it to the playoffs, than Dallas. For a team that didn't make it to the playoffs, doing so as the 8 seed may be a successful season. For the NBA champion to rank 3rd it may not be so In the end, chances are than indeed Jokic may have a higher relative weight than Luka. But Luka been fifth, it is indeed, ridiculous
I am sorry to say but I have to respectfully disagree with some of the arguments. 1. The Russell/Jokic argument: All true BUT just like you always say yourself Uncut Hoops, keep the same standard for Luka. Just like The Joker in 2022 his co star missed out on a huge number of games. The argument could be made, that the Mavs would fight for a Top 3 seed in the west right now hadn’t Kyrie missed so many games. 2. Team success is more important: 100% agree but if we were only going by that measurement we all would have to agree that Russ and the Joker didn’t deserve their MvP either. 3. The voter fatigue argument. 100% I agree it is misleading and yes 50+ point contribution isn’t anything, especially as it doesn’t account for defense. However one thing that definitely is clear is that while the Joker wasn’t popular with some of the people voting ( especially those from Espn Clutch Sports) luka seems to be downright hated by them. If it wasn’t for TNT you wouldn’t even know the man plays in the league, SAS in particular tries his hardest to minimize any success of Luka at all times.
Kyrie still played in 5x the number of games as Murray & MPJ combined. Russ also didn't have a single player on that roster as dynamic as Kyrie either.
@@atlien1988yes but that doesn't matter for the argument. The argument against Luka was the Standing the Mavs were at and it is simply a fact, that they achieved this standing while Kyrie was missing a substantial amount of the time and also we shouldn't forget that for most of the season the team was constructed differently than it is now. All of this lead just to an 8 game difference and again the argument could be made, that given a better situation in that regard the mavs would be playing for the title in the west.
You should also take into account how stacked the west is talent wise now compared few years back..Many star players in west were injured too..Just for reference:booker,CP3 and ayton were enough to get you the top seed..Now even with KD,booker and beal suns are in playin..So winning 48 games now is more difficult than 2 yrs back..So comparing jokic's MVP season to Luka this year totally fair if he wins same amount of games or more and is at least the 6th seed
I don't think people expect Luka to win as an 8th seed, even at the release of this video, Mavs were already back at 6th seed, making this immediately outdated. The difference between 4th and 8th in the West is just 1 or 2 games, holding onto that right now makes no sense at all. The argument for Luka for MVP only matters if at least he can stay out of the play-in, saying that RIGHT now they are Xth seed or Yth seed with the seeding changing day-by-day is quite pointless.
Pretty telling that everyone agrees this era is more stacked with talent than ever - and yet we'd all kinda be surprised if Jokic didn't at least make the finals this year despite not having a superstar teammate. That tells me he's him.
There have only been 5 MVPS not be a top 2 seed since the Merger.. Jokic in 22 who had no Murray. Russ in 17 who lost KD and averaged a TD Jordan in 88 as a 3 seed. Moses in 82 they were the 3 seed but had a top 2 record because they were 2nd in their division and Kareem in 76 they missed the playoffs. You're not going to give MVP to a player with similar stats on a superior seed
Sorry I disagree with you Luka is MVP. Also seeding doesnt matter, how many wins you have matters. Mavs could get 50 wins and end up the 5th or 6th seed because of how stacked the west is. Once again, Win/Loss is what matters not seeding.
The Joker and the DENVER NUGGETS coached by LeBALCO’s daddy- Coach Mike Malone, have seemingly picked up where Kevin Durant and the GS Warriors left off in 2018. 🔥
The MVP corelates heavily with Season Win Shares and Player Efficiency Rating. Luka is in 5th and 4th place, respectively. If you look at LeBron's 5 year stretch of Win Share leads, he won 4 MVPs. MJ had a stretch of 9 seasons of Win Share dominance (broken up by a couple years during his first retirement) and he only won 5 MVPs. Kareem also had a stretch of 9 years where he ended up winning 6 MVPs. Right now, Jokic is on a 4-year stretch of Win Share leads, and he's going to win. No one is being unfair to Luka. This has been the standard for decades. There have been exceptions (Nash playing the game the way the NBA top brass set out to enact through rule changes in early 2000s and Westbrook for averaging a triple double), but the trend is still there. Highroller got this one wrong. It happens.
Jokic downright the best player in the world rn and if they reach the finals Celtics will “choke” in the eyes of media.. as a mavs fans I don’t wanna see any bit of Denver in the playoffs
I still think you're right on the fact that Jokic should win but the mavs are the 5th seed now. I think it's actually a lot closer than most of us would like to admit, Luka does so much for his team.
Comparing only On/Off numbers for Luka and Jokic is very misleading. Denver has a way better starting 5 (even after the trade, Nuggets starting 5 is still above Mavs). Mavs have a better bench and with Kidd staggering minutes between Luka and Kyrie to always keep one on the court, Mavs second unit is better than Nuggets second unit. Before the trade, Luka always had to play with the weaker unit because he could carry them and Kyrie usually had a better unit. It's only after the trade deadline have the Mavs starting 5 been dominating. Anyways, my point is the only using On/Off numbers to say Jokic is better than Luka is a trash argument because for most of the season Luka was playing with a weaker unit to keep them afloat while Nuggets have the best starting 5 in the league.
Do you not watch nuggets games? Jokic and Murray also stagger minutes with the bench. That is why Jokic has a higher box score than the other starters.
@@timholland2129 They stagger minutes but Jokic plays with the much better lineup than Murray, whereas on the Mavs Luka for most of the year played with the bad lineups whereas Kyrie got the better squad.
Wvhy not Luka being an MVP, imo Joker is definitely winning this year and im a big Jokic fan but if Luka is not winning it then he is definitely a close 2nd, 35-9-10 on ridiculous shooting and his team are now 6th seed and 2 games behind 4th seed if Embiid, Joker and Russ won it as a 4th and 6th seed respectfully why not Luka too and also Curry was a legit MVP candidate in 21' as a 8th seed
he is 3rd behind sga for now. if he wants to hold the ball all game like this and have a decent roster around him, he will probably need to be the 2 seed at worst to win an mvp
Why would you hang your argument on the Mavs being the 8th seed when that part of the standings is so fluid? The better question to ask is... How high in the standings would the Mavericks need to rise to change your mind? If they stay hot, 5th is possible. And if the Clippers free fall worsens then who knows about 4th.
Mavs being the 8th seed isnt a flaw in his MVP case if you add the context that the Mavs were 1 of the most wrecked teams by injuries this year and the absolute domination that has happened after he finally got a healthy team...
I feel bad for Luka. He had to put insane numbers just to win a game against average opponents. But this team is no longer the same team as it was for the last 5 seasons. We finally have a center or two. I think we're on 8-1 win-loss ratio or something, including win over Denver.
@@rektz2457 Sure, and I'm glad, or as Luka would point out "I'm just Robin to Batman". But Luka had to pretend that we're playing with a center. We had none for the past 5 years (unless you count Porzingis).
You can be the best individual player statistically, but whether those stats eventually mean success to your team is, I think, one of the factors that determine the season MVP. Great stats become meaningless if the do not translate to overall team success.
I think the biggest part of this that I haven’t heard anyone bring up is the difference in records in the west, not saying Luka should win it bc of his his but it’s worth considering, the Mavs are the 7th seed with 42 wins at the moment the Thunder are the second seed with 49 wins, that is a much smaller gap than most years and I think it’s a bit of context to consider. It’s not like the Mavs are rolling into the playin with a .500 record this is a team that is still capable of making it to a 50 win season (especially when you consider how easy the Mavs schedule is for the rest of the season)
Saw Jxmy's vid, now convinced Luka should be no.4 and Tatum no.5. But I knew that before, so... He could go up higher if Dallas wins more and others blunder.
Jokic getting a third MVP will be the worst thing that’s ever happened to the NBA. It will really solidify this era of the NBA being one-sided and not two way like the game is supposed to be.
I like Jimmy's videos and I even watched this one and was honestly thinking like this is such a reach. Everything you just said in this video I was thinking to myself the same exact things. There's a reason why hes not on top of the MVP leaderboard and it's no disrespect to him. It's just that other players are doing better and have more impact right now. I get that Luka is averaging 30 and almost the triple-double, but so is Jokic, so that already destroys his whole case.
How does that destroy his case? Luka averages 8 more ppg than Jokic and more apg. And considering he's a point guard averaging nearly 10 rpg, that statement makes no sense.
@@MaydayAggro Lukas impact isn't as big as jokic. If joker doesn't play nuggets standing would probably drastically drop. But with Luka playing alongside even an all star player in kyrie, they're not even top 5 in the west even with a 30 point triple double average 😂. And the mavs don't do as bad when Luka is off the court as the nuggets do worse when jokic is off the court. So clearly jokics overall impact to his team is greater than lukas impact to his team, meaning joker is more valuable as a player. And all I'm saying is almost averaging a triple double isnt as meaningful nowadays, especially when several people are almost doing it also, when your team standing isn't as high as someone else doing it. Westbrook doing it with a low standing team is an exception since it was the first time ever done. And Westbrook actually averaged it instead of almost doing it like Luka. So it's a difference.
@@MaydayAggro the 8 more points clearly isn't making a difference since they sit at 6. And 9 rebounds a game isn't that big a deal as a 6'7" guard. He's big for his position so that's a given as rebounds can be gotten any which way as long as he hustles. If anything I'd make the case kyrie has a bigger impact for the mavs than Luka right now
@@MaydayAggro it's not that impressive if they're not even top 4 or 5 in the west. If his team was better why aren't they top of the west 🤷♂️ SGA being younger and having a bigger impact for his team winning is more impressive while averaging 30.
I agree 100 percent with you! To me there is 2 reasons to put up with all the negativity you get no matter who you are in professionals sports if you the best they hate you cause they jealous and always trying to bring you down and if you bad they always want to get rid of you ...And those 2 reasons are MONEY ...ANd Championships! I am a celtics guy and i believe tatum deserves to be up there because we have been dominate in the east and the joker is my number one as well and i hate saying that cause i want to see the MVP back in green but I can only go with stats to start the convo then wins to finish it...THen in the off there a tie i go with what you brought up how much of the offense are they of the team during the wins and when they are not playing and so forth! Great break down!
I agree that Luka doesn't get enough love from the media as he ought to, but JxmmyHighroller's case for Luka being MVP was completely flawed. As you rightfully pointed out, Jokic and Westbrook's supporting cast in their MVP season were basically trash yet they managed to keep them off the play-in tournament and have all time great individual statistics, Westbrooks 42triple doubles in one season, and Jokic breaking every advanced stat in 2022. Luka has Kyrie, and the most efficient two point shooter in the game in Daniel Gafford, his team should be way higher. Yes he leads the league in scoring, but he's shooting less than 50% and is 2nd in the league in turnovers, I'm sorry but that's not MVP. Jokic is leading the league in BPM, OBPM, VORP, PER, Win Shares, Offensive Win Shares, and is the only player in top 6 in TOTAL points, rebounds and assists, while being first in his conference. It's not hating on Luka, right now, Jokic is just the best candidate.
The Dallas mavericks have been a top 3 injured team throughout the season. Your arguments are also flawed. You’re acting like Luka has had Kai the whole season or Gafford the whole season.
That's exactly the argument that Jimmy made as well: team standing statistically matters a lot in MVP rating, but it shouldn't. Being a masterful player drafted by a bad team doesn't make you less of a masterful player. It's MVP not MVT.
We running out of narratives against jokic because he already surpassed everything. 2021-bounced early in playoffs & 2 best teammates injured 2022 bounced early and no defense and no murray. 2023 healthy but people believe he wont win. Whats next? 2023 healthy
Honestly, I dont get this Jokic disrespect. Whenever Jokic is the clear frontrunner or about to win MVP, they find someone who would also deserve it but not as much as Jokic.
He's white, slow, and not flashy. Doesn't fit the narrative.
except doncic definitely deserves it more???
@@Kevin-fj3ffno way
as goes for every mvp??? wtf is up with this recent jokic victimisation 😂?
@@Kevin-fj3ff How? Where are the Mavs? They're not even top 5 in the West so how tf does Luka deserve the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER award over a guy who is leading his team to the top? You people are delusional.
Joker has been the MVP 4 years straight as far as I'm concerned.
Totally agree ! MVP should be based of stats and not fee fees .
@@deansaylor9164ok so explain how someone with 26 12 and 9 is beating someone who’s averaging 34 9 and 10
@@deansaylor9164if you take jokic off the nuggets they are still strong enough to make the playoffs. You take luka off the mavs they dont make it plain and simple
Exactly!!! He got robbed last year.
@@warrenaungst5655so the Mavs should give him a team award, it has nothing to do with Jokiy being the Fu..ING best player in the league.
Jokic would be so happy if Luka won the MVP though
LOL. I think you are correct sir
Jokic won't give a shit about regural season MVP, if he makes the repeat.
Why?????????-
well I mean…. Do u think……
JOKIC would be “happy”…
if ….
somebody else….
ANY.. body..
else won the mvp….?
….
….sooooo…
ur basically ADMITTING…
he has a PREFERENCE….?
dare I say….. is that a form of….
r*cism😶….😩😭🤦♂️💀
So he’d be happy if he didn’t win as long as it’s a Serb hunh??
😂🤦♂️JK but nr tho lol
@@moshimoshi4654 not really a popularity contest in his case. Bunch of people watching NBA only found out why he won it b2b last playoffs, when he was destroying KAT, Gobert, AD, Bam, KD, Bron and Adebayo.
This is the best comment.
Jokic is clearly the best player in the league. He plays unselfish, winning hoops at the highest level.
@greggibson33 jokic cant even stay in shape he ain't the best player in the world
@@darnellwilliams8783 -- Jokic is a shape like Shaq. But 2 MVPs, more games than Embiid, and still has won a FMVP ? If he ain't one of the best players in the world then I don't know who is.
@@darnellwilliams8783 what are you talking about? He has the best shape out of all the super stars out there. He's the most consistent player in the league
@@Li_Yifei no he's not jokic is the golden pillsbury doughboy that's why he is winning MVP yall are cheerleaders
@@darnellwilliams8783 You must be one of those who hate white people? a black racist
He made an excellent point on why Luka should be ahead of Tatum in the voting, but that’s it...
if sabonis was 1st in the league and jokic was 6th Who do you think would win the mvp? jokic right? there Is 6ppg point difference between sabonis and jokic...... between jokic and Luka there are 8.... thats how big of a gap stat wise there Is + Denver won both games jokic and Murray missed = Denver Is such a greatly meshed and well coaches team that they'd still find ways to win
(PS sabonis wasn't even an all star..... cuz of that 6 point difference)
@@darckgamer382thank you for pointing that out! The points this guy is making are severely flawed
@@darckgamer382if sabonis was also leading the lead in every advanced stat, then yeah we would put him over Jokic despite 6 points.
@@El_reecio you know that this year jokic isn't dominating and Luka and jokic are pretty mutch there with the advanced stats right? you can check It by searching "Advanced stat Leaders Nba" and Luka and jokic are close in everyone of them... jokic Is above in 2 more but lively and gafford are 1st and 2nd in 2 Advanced stat metrics just cuz of Luka so your statement isn't true my guy but nice try...
I don't know why people always want to downplay Jokic's '22 MVP when it was one of the greatest seasons by a player statistically. First of all he had recorded the highest PER ever. And besides all his insane offensive numbers, he also had a better defensive rating than Giannis and Embiid. Jokic actually had a better individual winning % than the other candidates, the only reason his record wasn't better was because the depleted Nuggets were an abysmal 2-6 without him(on top of losing every game he left early from injury or ejection), meanwhile the other candidates' teams still had a winning record without them. Even then, Jokic had his team within 1 or 2 games of Giannis and Embiid's teams pretty much the whole year, Luka hasn't had his team anywhere near Jokic, SGA or Giannis' teams despite having Kyrie.
And Jokic that season had the highest +/- in the history of this sport (13,7). He could also brake it this year because he had 14,5 at some point, but I'm sure until the end of his career, he will surpass even his own record.
Individual defensive rating is not a good metric, but I agree with the rest
@@AMINOMMA individual defensive metric for me isn't good indicator for being elite defensive player, to make first team all defense for example, but for me defensive metric definitely gives you some picture wether or not that player plays defense or not. People say Jokic is terrible defender, he doesn't play defense and I don't know what. I'm sorry, but you can't be liability on defensive end and in the dame time having the best defensive +/- last 3 years in a row. In 2022 he was even tied with Tatum for the best defensive winshares in the league. All of that while averaging 1,5 steals which is great for a center and 0,9 blocks.
The problem for me is not that Jimmy don't respect Jokic, I think it comes from his take on why now the NBA has this numbers on scoring, for him the answer is that the players are too talented, that is another flaw in his arguments if you ask me. In general terms I like his arguments, but in this case I don't and the reason for that is not because of the lack of logic or numbers, but, a mistake on critical thinking.
His argument was that today's offense is so good that is imposible to stop it, but in the same video he made a colossal mistake, he argues that the reason for that is not the rule changes or the lack of defense, but just that the new players learn from the past and perfected the offensive game. But, this could be also true for defense, it's a no brainer, if offense can be perfected also defense can be perfected, but Jimmy didn't put that on the table, he talks in his last video about "we're done with the 90's" that the players now a days are better because they have practiced a lot the perfection of the movements and strategies of the past (I agree with this), but also because the rules now a days allow you to do movements that in those days were imposible to do, so it's also a product of the rules of the time (and I also agree with this), but that's exactly the point on this case, defense now a days is trying to survive the modern rules of the NBA, not evolving like offense is doing. So, Luca is an amazing player yes, but like you said, he take advantage on the rules conditions of the NBA, Luca himself admit that in an interview some days ago, but Jimmy don't want to see that 'cause it would be a case against his argument.
You’re definitely right, the evidence against these players being so great offensively that they could not be stopped, is that the NBA referees have called the game different since All-Star break, and scoring has dropped precipitously. So really, it’s all about how the game is officiated. I think it’s crazy, people that argue that point will not acknowledge the gather step, no hand checking, foul baiting. Of course dudes back in the day could do that if you have them an extra step. All these moves guys do today were done on the blacktop by players back in the day.
Luka!
When he showed the stats of Luka and Tatum. 😂😂😂
But you do understand that he’s the only allstar in a tougher division 🤷🏾♂️🙉🙈🙊🤣😂
I know right. Only total clowns would bring Tatum into MVP discussion. 🤣
Damn Uncut Hoops, don't you get tired of shutting up Lebum's male cheerleaders? 🤣🤣🤣
tf do this have to do wit bron
How does this have anything to do with LeBron in particular. He is only mentioned when showing stats of recent MVPs and that's it.
You are a 🤖
@@devoInsanejxmmyhighroller is a huge lebron fan. Dude loves to make up stats
@@rafaellariosa4815 that has nun to do with what i asked
problem with jokic is you need to have at least some ball knowledge to understand how great he is
People forget that Steven Adams led the league in screen assists, offensive rebounds, AND boxouts that season. He created more opportunities and space for russ than ever before.
luka is amazing, but jokic is just as amazing with the first seed in the west. it's just unfortunate he chose to go ballistic during one of the toughest MVP races ever (shai, giannis, joker and luka all putting up historic seasons) so you have to split hairs somewhere.
I think Doncic just doesn’t contribute to winning as much. sucks for him that he’s in the west, it’s tough out there
@@MaximusR93I’m glad my team isn’t in the West bro 😂
@@MaximusR93the Mavericks have been a top 3 injured team. They would literally be a lottery team without him especially cause Kai missed a lot of games.
@@juniormazariego9701 same for Denver without Jokic
@@MaximusR93 This is a ridiculous comment. Doesn't contribute to winning? How so? They are on pace to win 50 games. Fuck outta here.
the real difference is that luka has the highest usage rate ever (how long you hold the ball on offense), but jokic is not even top 20! that is so incredible, that jokic is able to do what he does and he doesn’t even hold the ball for as long as 20-25 other guys in the nba. there are only 30 teams… jokic’s league best on-off point differential, and the nuggets being the 1 seed are obviously also important points
Highlighting usage rate but ignoring all the games Kyrie and Exum missed making Luka the only ball handler and playmaker for a chunk of the szn
@@stefonpiggott9109Even when Kyrie and Exum were there Luka was still being ball dominant because he is
He’s a center my dude. he’s obviously not handling the ball as much as a point guard. joker is incredible but not bc of that. lol
@@Joe_Ma99 He has the highest touches in the league just doesn't hold it for long
@@Joe_Ma99Embiid and Giannis are both big men that rank in the top 3 in overall usage pct. In fact there’s quite a few big men that rank higher in usage over Jokic. The fact is, Jokic doesn’t need the ball in his hands all that much to put up the insane stat lines and advanced numbers he puts up, his efficiency is literally that astronomical.
The over all premise is that Luka should win MVP (if Jokic didn't exist)..
But Jokic does exist and is the most valuable..
It's called MOST valuable player of the league.
I think Luka is phenomenal!
I feel like Jimmy's argument is close to the same that was used for Embiid last year. "But look how good he is!!"
Yeah we see how amazing a lot of the players are, but are they truly the "most" valuable player of the entire league for that season?
Its crazy that Jokic has been accused of stat padding. If he was stat padding, he would have been averaging 35 pts per game rather than less than 30. Also, the same people who accused Jokic of stat padding also overlook how other players like Lebron have literally been caught looking at stat sheets during blowout losses.
If he is stat padding, they would have won less
the stat padding argument is so retarded when u ONLY just look at his near triple doubles.... can you imagine a scenario where westbrook is 1 or 2 assists short of a triple double and he exists the game, or sits out the entire fourth quarter?.... there is 0 chance
jokic does it ALL THE TIME
What's far crazier is both Luka and Shai have blatantly statpadded this year, without even hiding it. Jok would never.
Nikola Jokic 4 pts 16 asts 5 blks vs Pistons 23/24 season ez lol
@@daddyfuse50What do you even call stat padding? Luka seated a lot of time 1 rebound or 1 assist shy of a TD while he clearly could have one lmao
As a big Madrid fan, I love Luka. Big fan of the man, he is a great player. Niko is still more dominant this year.
No he isnt??? niko is averaging 8 less points and is in nothing else better than Luka the only thing he has is a better team but individually Doncic is much better this year
If Jokic wasn’t on the nuggets you really think they would be as good as they are? Jokic is MVP.
@@QuentinLassiterwell no bc Luka is not a center. Your hypothetical only works with players that play the same position. lol
@@Joe_Ma99 So Porter and Murray would be able to carry the team to a championship without Jokic ? And I thought I read dumb takes before , then I read yours 😆
Big Madrid all the way baby!
Sounds like Jimmy is admitting this era of basketball is shit. But wasn’t he saying the players now are so much more skilled????
The only reason the Mavs record is worse is because of injuries, and his supporting cast beyond Kyrie has been absolute garbage. Imagine if he had Gafford and Washington throughout the year?
would be seed 1 , since trade deadline they beat Denver Luka dismentaled Jokic , they beat OKC they lost 2nd game against OKC without Luka by 7 points only
I’m sick of the “He already won the award so he is lowered this year”. If you’re the best player for 10 years, then 10 mvps
Season isn't over....these declarative notions about seeding with teams 1 game apart are exhausting.
I wholeheartedly agree that Jokic is clear MVP but Doncic is also a clear second and not that much behind of Jokic. What i think Jimmy is trying to say is that team success should be less weighted. Most valuable player should be who is making the biggest impact on their team. Dallas is severely underperforming when Luka is not playing and he is putting up insane numbers. That is what the conversation should be about. Who is the best player and making the most impact on the team. Tatum is putting up good numbers for an example but Boston is actually having better numbers when he is on the field, stats can be very misleading if not used in the right context. Good video overall tho!
There is a huge difference. One is leading his team to the top, the other is leading a play in team.
Lol SGA and Giannis are also avg over 30 ppg, with great efficiency, teams #2 in standings AND they play defense. Luka should be 4th unless Mavs somehow crack top 4 in West
@@PoatanCombatSportGOAT But what more can you except if his teammates are this bad? He needs to be averaging 45+ points per game to actually lead a team to the top 4 LOL. This is exactly my point he is literally doing everything good but his team is just not helping him at all.
@@tdup191 Not saying they arent in the MVP race, ofc they are. I would probably say that they are closer to doncic in 2nd then Doncic is to Jokic. Also the Mavs are 2 wins away from cracking top 4 which just shows how competetive Luka has made them even with little help from teammates. Also is only 4 wins away from the bucks which are second lol. Stop pretending that there is a HUGE difference between the teams in the west. They are all super competetive which neglects the standing argument even more.
yup... if mavs get 5th seed, it's a toss who should get mvp, him or jokic.... if he gets 4th, it's luka
Jokic might f around and become the third best player ever behind mj and kobe. We’ll see
4th because you forgot about Larry Legend, remember….
A wise man once said….
If I had to choose a basketball player to shoot the ball & save a game, I’d choose Michael Jordan, but if I had to choose a basketball player to shoot the ball & save my life, I’d choose Larry Bird.
@@jerrym1218 and kareem, but jokic will end his career in these conversations
@@Brickwilliams Yeah Kareem too, Magic should be in the conversation as well because the whole beginning of the NBA’s golden age started with both him and Larry Bird, and their great rivalry.
Magic was a great basketball player and showman altogether, he brought many many more eyes to the NBA with his talent, charm, & charisma.
Jokic definitely deserves to be in the conversation when it comes to Top 5 greatest NBA basketball players of all time, Hell!! It may even be debatable to put him in the top 5 too as well.
As his resume grows throughout the years, he will definitely deserve to be in everyone’s top 5 conversation.
One thing that is important when judging how great a player is, is not only their skills, physical attributes and dominance, but also how they carry themselves on and off the court, around their teammates, reporters, analysts and fans too.
As well as how they treat the game itself, when they feel like they will die if they don’t play good or even win, the types that push themselves beyond their limits to win, & push their teammates to become better too as well, weather it’s a love or hate relationship where the end result is still them winning.
That’s how I judge the great players from the good players and the bad ones.
@@jerrym1218 demeanor is important, but jokic isn’t over guys like Hakeem, duncan, shaq, wilt, Russell yet, he’s got to make it happen but if the present is any sign of the future he will pass those players
@@jerrym1218 so then still 3rd... it would be mj and larry... kobe was just a volume shooter to me... not much more than that
He's one of the best all-around players I've ever seen. If he wins another MVP and another chip he'll be top 10
I agree joker is mvp but the Luka disrespect is getting crazy. Dude improved his defense and is putting up generational numbers, I’m not sure what else he can do
Win more games 😂.... besides tht all you new fans can do is call ppl haters and disrespectful for not putting your favorite player on pedestals
@@tdup191He has the most injuries in his team between all the candidate lmao
Dallas being an 8th seed is kinda not true, they're 7th in fact, and their conference is so stacked together that every game makes a difference. The other hidden metric of impact is the fact that, not only the mvp should elevate it's team, but his team should also elevate its mvp, which the Nuggets do better than Dallas, since most of the bench and even some starters are not really consistent and have more downs than ups. In the end is hard to measure ofc, and Jxmy I believe is not underestimating Jokic case for mvp, but the fact Luka being in 5th/6th place is ludicrous. That said, Luka is still young, he will have more chances... unless Wemby kinda starts sweeping every award there is.
Also the fact that the Mavs were 1 of the most injured teams for half the season while Luka was doing a carry job to keep them in the play in...
Now after they got healthy Dallas is dominating and has been climbing the ladder.
They're like 2 wins from 5th.
As a Lakers Fan. When Jokic destroys you like this in a sweep and then beat you every game, not much you can say. Im sure most people think AD is a really good defender but look how Jokic can cook him. He is too much a team player to chase stats otherwise it would be a wrap. Denver is the 1 Seed and if we make it through the play in we play them lol
Acting like Luka's team has been healthy this season is crazy. Most injured team other than Grizzlies and Heat.
Facts this dudes entire video is a fallacy lmao
Yes but the problem is the Mavs have Kyrie Irving while the Nuggets have zero allstars besides Jokic. Like I guarantee you if Kyrie was on the nuggets Jokic would make him a hell of a lot better.
the Cavs suns knicks sixers on top of the 2 teams u listed. Mavs have been dealt with average injury luck.
@@Cpro9692 things. Kyrie has missed a quarter of the year, and second, kyrie is having the best season of his career, by far, this year. This idea that luka makes teammates worse is absurd...
@@Cpro969 Jamal Murray has been robbed time and time again of an All-Star appearence, but make no mistake, he's one of the best PGs in the league. Kyrie is obivously better, but the difference is not that great to really put a dent on the Nuggets.
I agree with most things you said, but you didn't mention the fact that Kyrie missed a lot of games this season, same as Kleber, Exum and the fact that with that roster, without Kyrie, I think Dallas are easily the worst team in the whole league. And Luka had to long time with players like that before Kyrie returning back and being more consistent. Soo maybe these Dallas are better than OKC Thunder in 2017 with Kyrie, but the point is they weren't always with Kyrie and when Kyrie wasn't on the court... This team was definitely worse than OKC in 2017 ao I definitely think Luka is playing more impressive basketball this season than Westbrook in 2017. He doesn't average triple double, but averages almost a triple double, he averages 4 points more than Westbrook and his overall efficiency are waay better than Westbrook.
luka and nikola are from the same tribe .we woud not be mad if one or the other win this y.
I watch every Jxmy video that comes out religiously, but the problem with that video in particular is that he compares Luka's numbers to everybody and everything in the last 40 years EXCEPT for Jokic's numbers this year. Luka lead the league in PPG...Jokic leads the league in EVERY SINGLE ADVANCED OFFENSIVE METRIC that is measured. It's not even close when you looks at their numbers side by side which is the ONE thing that Jxmy didn't do.
I love both Luka and Jokic plays.
Jokic does more with much less usage rate.
@@jonz23mmj had the highest usage rate of all time ..that’s what great players do ..get used to
@@Lyrunfromda214 yea great players WIN genius. Y'all brain dead casuals always gotta bring Jordan into it. Luka is not in the same universe as MJ.
@@jonz23mok acting like Mavs wasn’t injured and needed luka to carry the offense alone, u can have ur opinion jokic is the mvp and is better but you acting like luka is at fault in why mavs isn’t winning games 😂😂😂
@@enryu8449 lol the injured excuse 😂. Y'all use the same script. There no reason for luka to pounding the ball this much compared to actually playing in a coherent system it's less effective and will always be, in this thing called team sport.
No matter how you are trying to cope, playing like luka will always be a stat padding play style that won't lead to much championship success unless the team is completely stacked.
Jimmy = Lebby Stan. Take anything he says with a grain of salt. He edits real nice tho! 😂
Jimmy has said multiple times that his GOAT is MJ. Why are you hating just to hate?
@@aster0id225 lmao. Why you getting emotional? Jimmy has said verbatim “Lebron is my King.” May I ask why you’re bringing up MJ? You do understand, you can still be a Lebby Stan and think someone else is the GOAT. Stop creating hate in your head when I’m just stating a fact. Lmao. Have a good day.
@@richerichism I'm not getting emotional, it's just that a lot of people with similar statements like yours seem to just hate Lebron without any valid points. You have a good day, too.
@@aster0id225 You are not wrong. This guy gets emotional and triggered that you called out his hateful remark about Jimmy for liking LBJ. He's hypocrite to say the least. With a PHD in gas lighting.
He is saying MJ is the goat, but no videos prove that as a topic. He's just saying that to keep people involved in the convo and maybe even persuade them
Jokic in 2022 was 2/3 wins behind Embiid and Giannis with a G league teammates who don't even play in the NBA anymore while Embiid/Giannis were on stacked teams. He actually won more games then them as he played more than them. This season Luka is 9 wins behind Jokic while also playing 7 games less...as much as I love Luka there is absolutely no argument for him over Jokic this season.
A moze se reci i prosle
Nararative is aslo very important.
In 2017. When Westbrook won the MVP, not only did he avarage 30 point triplr double, but becouse KD left him in summer of 3016. Everyone frlt bad for Russ, yet carried OKC to 6th seed in tough western conference.
When Jokif eon the MVP in 2022. as 6th seed, hie 2nd (Jamal) and 3rd (MPJ) best players were injured for a WHOLE season, and yet Nikola lead his monstars maed out of Monte Morris, Will Barton, 35 y/o Jeff Green, Gordon, (Austin Rivers, Facundo Campazzo, Ja Mxchal Green, Bones Hyland, Davon Reed, Zeke Naji and Bryn Forbes bench) to 48 wine and 6th seed. That same season top seeds in the east eere Heat with 53 wins and Celtics, Bucks, 76ers with 51 wins each, while in the west Sune had 64 eins with Booker and CP3 and Grizzlies had 56 wins ( Mavs were 4th seed with 52 wins). Out of all of those teams, the only players seen as a threat for MVP were Embiid and Giannis and their teams only had 3 wins more than injury riddled Nuggets.
So, the Narrative was if Nikola had his boys to play alongside with, Denver would've been top 2 seed (which they proved in thr following 2022/23 season)
To be fair my man, the Mavs have dealt with the most injuries this year and has played the most lineups due to it and Luka is still 34 points, 9 rebounds now 10 assists on crazy good shooting splits based on his attempts.
He actually has an argument for being an outlier, because he already is, but he also at least HAS to be a top 5'ish seed and have like two extraordinary performances to go.
Isto tako jokic bez mareja 20 utakmica
Looking at the seeding in the west is stupid .
Mavs could be #6 #5 in 3 games .
They had TONS of injuries in the beginning.
And Luka carried this team.
Jokic won as a #6 seed
Jokic was 2 games behind Embiid while Luka is 8 games behind Jokic, Jokic had better advanced stats (still does), better on/off rating (still does), didn't have 2nd option and 3rd option played 9 games, Kyrie has played only 5 less games than Murray this year. Luka is a great MVP candidate, but Jokic is a better one.
When you think of value on the basketball court Jokic is easily the most valuable. He has the stats, and when it comes to advanced stats he clearls Luka by a wide margin, and on top of that he has the impact on winning, leading his team to the #1 seed in the stacked west. As much as I really love Luka, this is not a real conversation.
Its Sabonis that is getting the disrespect. Double Double machine and didn't make the All Star Roster? He should be 2nd or 3rd in MVP carrying Sac to the playoffs.
2nd or 3rd is crazy lil bro😂
@@maximusorbis2548 Explain why not my boy. If you don't nobody takes you serious.
@@Top_Loaded_JRGS77Jokic, Luka, SGA and Giannis are way above him. Tatum too. At least 5 players are better
@@Top_Loaded_JRGS77 Sabonis team isn’t a high seed and he puts up worse stats than other players. That’s all I gotta say lil guy.
@@maximusorbis2548 love scrubs trying to disrespect online. Really tuff homegirl
I miss the days when we praised guys for lifting their teams to victory.
Who else is tired of meaningless point scoring.
@@100percentBroonese
Tatum aint winning a title or an mvp.
Lukas just more skilled. Cry about it
@@xSilentknifegaming
Finals.
3x MVP.
Finals MVP.
Already the greatest center to ever live.
Revived one of the worst franchises in NBA history that bore even English, Anthony, Iverson, or Billups could do.
@1stAmendmentorDie1776 this isnt about Hakeem Olajuwon.
Thank you for spitting facts @UncutHoops!
yet talks about what luka has on the team when the team had injuries and they didn't play as full team but only talks about jokic that he had no help and he had injured teammates... jokic is one of the greates can't argue with that but it is strange how MVP actualy works
it wasn't close last year, yet the voters managed to fumble the ball
you remember the clown who didn't even put jokic on his ballot... as ANY place
I do agree with some things you have to say but there is a couple flaws I noticed.
First flaw in your argument, your not accounting all the injuries the mavs had at the beginning of the season and especially kyrie which resulted in alot of losses.
Second flaw you say that you can’t consider luka for mvp because he’s the 8 seed but what your not accounting is how competitive the west is and how close the 5th - 8th seed are. As of this very moment the mavs just blew out the kings 132 - 96 and are currently sitting at the 6th seed, same as 2022 jokic and 2017 westbrook.
I’m not saying luka deserves mvp over jokic but he should atleast be 2nd.
Agree with everything you said. And guess what, luka is now 2nd in the race
@@heartbreakerdan8857 dub
As a Luka fan, Jokic is the MVP. I just don't like when others are put above Luka. Should be 1. Jokic 2. Luka 3. SGA 4. Giannis 5. Tatum
As a nuggets fan, Jokic is the MVP. I just dont like that Luka is not getting the credit he deserves for being an offensive juggernaut. Winner take all for one game I dont want the nuggets to play the mavs, 7 game series much more confidence.
@@COcruiser you're goddamn right. I'd bet my house with the Mavs on any series besides Denver. It would be my dream to see a WCF against Luka and Jokic. That would be a dog fight. Whoever wins, I'm happy.
Bro you make the videos with the most context, I watch every video you make. I don’t know why you don’t make more. Keep ‘em coming cause I use ur context when I’m debating with the young heads.
The argument against Luka due to record needs to take in account that these key players have missed this many games: Kyrie (22), Lively (19) Josh Green (18), Exum (26), Kleber (37), THJ (0). Key Denver players have missed this many games: Murray (19), MPJ (1), Gordon (7), KCP (6), Jackson (0), Braun(0). OKC has also been one of the least injured teams in the league. There's a decent chance the Mavs can get to 4th and might have been 3rd or higher had they not been so injury prone.
I like when Uncut Hoops punches up. They are his most compelling videos
If you look at the advanced stats the only person who is close to Jokic is Giannis
Cope. Luka is better.
Bullshit. You might want to look again. Luka is right there.
@@Macca15 bs which ones?
Luka Magic has played all season with tons of injuries. He’s carried the team on his shoulders and they’re about to move into 6th place. That’s an MVP to me.
Luca is undoubtedly already one of the greatest players ever to play in the NBA. MVP won’t change that…
The people who favour Luka view points, rebounds and assists as the only statistical measure
Who do you think you speak for?
MVP means "most VALUABLE player". You can have all the stats you want, but if your performance isn't providing VALUE to your team, they are empty stats. And guess how you determine value to a team? That's right: actually WINNING games.
Dallas is winning games. The fuck are you even talking about? They've been injured most of the season. They're finally healthy and are the most in-form team in the league.
You fail to debunk the arguments. Lukas combined production was not compared only to Karem, and players 30 years ago, as you said The comparison was against the average combined production of ALL MVPs, where Luka was second all time. Those players of 30 years ago just happen to be second. You can see Lebron and other people down in the list.
Your argument on Luka having inflated numbers is also failed. You suggested that Jokic and Russell won MVP because their teams having a more modest roster as compared to Dallas. But you never brought Dallas's roster production, only that of Denver and OKC. Save for Kyre, is hard to argue Luka has had more help than Jokic and Russell had. But even if so, your argument is entirely subjective as there are no stats to back up the claim that Luka inflated his numbers while Jokic and Russell didn't. There is also no evidence to prove that those two contributed more to their teams winning games.
It is ridiculous Luka is fifth in the MVP race. With Embid out on injury, Luka's numbers are the best from an individual contribution standpoint, and it is true at least two MVPs have been in teams with similar winning percentage. Moreover, the question your competitor brings to the table remains: is this an award to the best player? An award to the best player in the best team?
Is an interesting question. The name been Most Valuable Player, strictly speaking, it should go to the player that has the highest relative weight on his team success ratio. So it shouldn't go to the best player in the best team necessarily, because said team may have other important players contributing of said success. It shouldn't go to the best player neither, because that may not be good enough to ensure success. That is why for example, Steve Nash winning MVP over Kobe was not an error, as many people suggest.
The question should be then which player has the highest relative weight, on his team, and has resulted in a successful season. Successful season should also be relative, since is not the same for Boston or Denver to make it to the playoffs, than Dallas. For a team that didn't make it to the playoffs, doing so as the 8 seed may be a successful season. For the NBA champion to rank 3rd it may not be so
In the end, chances are than indeed Jokic may have a higher relative weight than Luka. But Luka been fifth, it is indeed, ridiculous
it's always funny how assists highlights are filled with jokic's plays. way too effortless for him it's amazing
Jokic winning MVP is more than deserved. I would not mind if they gave it to SGA.
I am sorry to say but I have to respectfully disagree with some of the arguments.
1. The Russell/Jokic argument: All true BUT just like you always say yourself Uncut Hoops, keep the same standard for Luka.
Just like The Joker in 2022 his co star missed out on a huge number of games. The argument could be made, that the Mavs would fight for a Top 3 seed in the west right now hadn’t Kyrie missed so many games.
2. Team success is more important: 100% agree but if we were only going by that
measurement we all would have to agree that Russ and the Joker didn’t deserve their MvP either.
3. The voter fatigue argument. 100% I agree it is misleading and yes 50+ point contribution isn’t anything, especially as it doesn’t account for defense.
However one thing that definitely is clear is that while the Joker wasn’t popular with some of the people voting ( especially those from Espn Clutch Sports) luka seems to be downright hated by them. If it wasn’t for TNT you wouldn’t even know the man plays in the league, SAS in particular tries his hardest to minimize any success of Luka at all times.
Kyrie still played in 5x the number of games as Murray & MPJ combined. Russ also didn't have a single player on that roster as dynamic as Kyrie either.
@@atlien1988yes but that doesn't matter for the argument. The argument against Luka was the Standing the Mavs were at and it is simply a fact, that they achieved this standing while Kyrie was missing a substantial amount of the time and also we shouldn't forget that for most of the season the team was constructed differently than it is now.
All of this lead just to an 8 game difference and again the argument could be made, that given a better situation in that regard the mavs would be playing for the title in the west.
You should also take into account how stacked the west is talent wise now compared few years back..Many star players in west were injured too..Just for reference:booker,CP3 and ayton were enough to get you the top seed..Now even with KD,booker and beal suns are in playin..So winning 48 games now is more difficult than 2 yrs back..So comparing jokic's MVP season to Luka this year totally fair if he wins same amount of games or more and is at least the 6th seed
I don't think people expect Luka to win as an 8th seed, even at the release of this video, Mavs were already back at 6th seed, making this immediately outdated. The difference between 4th and 8th in the West is just 1 or 2 games, holding onto that right now makes no sense at all. The argument for Luka for MVP only matters if at least he can stay out of the play-in, saying that RIGHT now they are Xth seed or Yth seed with the seeding changing day-by-day is quite pointless.
Pretty telling that everyone agrees this era is more stacked with talent than ever - and yet we'd all kinda be surprised if Jokic didn't at least make the finals this year despite not having a superstar teammate. That tells me he's him.
Great takes as usual
There have only been 5 MVPS not be a top 2 seed since the Merger.. Jokic in 22 who had no Murray. Russ in 17 who lost KD and averaged a TD Jordan in 88 as a 3 seed. Moses in 82 they were the 3 seed but had a top 2 record because they were 2nd in their division and Kareem in 76 they missed the playoffs. You're not going to give MVP to a player with similar stats on a superior seed
I love your objectivity and the say you put context into content. Jimmy gets caught up in the numbers a bit too much at times.
Sorry I disagree with you Luka is MVP. Also seeding doesnt matter, how many wins you have matters. Mavs could get 50 wins and end up the 5th or 6th seed because of how stacked the west is.
Once again, Win/Loss is what matters not seeding.
Nailed it. Great work! Keep it up.
kendick alliterates, assonates, and consonates with crickets... the sound of silence
Joker should have 4 M.V.P. in a row!😊
The Joker and the DENVER NUGGETS coached by LeBALCO’s daddy- Coach Mike Malone, have seemingly picked up where Kevin Durant and the GS Warriors left off in 2018. 🔥
The MVP corelates heavily with Season Win Shares and Player Efficiency Rating. Luka is in 5th and 4th place, respectively.
If you look at LeBron's 5 year stretch of Win Share leads, he won 4 MVPs.
MJ had a stretch of 9 seasons of Win Share dominance (broken up by a couple years during his first retirement) and he only won 5 MVPs.
Kareem also had a stretch of 9 years where he ended up winning 6 MVPs.
Right now, Jokic is on a 4-year stretch of Win Share leads, and he's going to win.
No one is being unfair to Luka. This has been the standard for decades. There have been exceptions (Nash playing the game the way the NBA top brass set out to enact through rule changes in early 2000s and Westbrook for averaging a triple double), but the trend is still there.
Highroller got this one wrong. It happens.
Never thought I'd see Uncut mention Jimmy Highroller😂. I love both of you but I was wondering when you'd make a video on his takes. Today was the day😆
Would be going for 4 except that mental 5 year old Kendrick Perkins made voters nervous
As a Mavs fan, I completely agree .. joker should be getting his 4th straight MVP right now
Jokic downright the best player in the world rn and if they reach the finals Celtics will “choke” in the eyes of media.. as a mavs fans I don’t wanna see any bit of Denver in the playoffs
I still think you're right on the fact that Jokic should win but the mavs are the 5th seed now. I think it's actually a lot closer than most of us would like to admit, Luka does so much for his team.
jokic is the best player in the nba but isn’t clear front runner luka ginias are in it right there with him
Comparing only On/Off numbers for Luka and Jokic is very misleading. Denver has a way better starting 5 (even after the trade, Nuggets starting 5 is still above Mavs). Mavs have a better bench and with Kidd staggering minutes between Luka and Kyrie to always keep one on the court, Mavs second unit is better than Nuggets second unit. Before the trade, Luka always had to play with the weaker unit because he could carry them and Kyrie usually had a better unit. It's only after the trade deadline have the Mavs starting 5 been dominating.
Anyways, my point is the only using On/Off numbers to say Jokic is better than Luka is a trash argument because for most of the season Luka was playing with a weaker unit to keep them afloat while Nuggets have the best starting 5 in the league.
Do you not watch nuggets games? Jokic and Murray also stagger minutes with the bench. That is why Jokic has a higher box score than the other starters.
@@timholland2129 They stagger minutes but Jokic plays with the much better lineup than Murray, whereas on the Mavs Luka for most of the year played with the bad lineups whereas Kyrie got the better squad.
Wvhy not Luka being an MVP, imo Joker is definitely winning this year and im a big Jokic fan but if Luka is not winning it then he is definitely a close 2nd, 35-9-10 on ridiculous shooting and his team are now 6th seed and 2 games behind 4th seed if Embiid, Joker and Russ won it as a 4th and 6th seed respectfully why not Luka too and also Curry was a legit MVP candidate in 21' as a 8th seed
😂😂😂
he is 3rd behind sga for now. if he wants to hold the ball all game like this and have a decent roster around him, he will probably need to be the 2 seed at worst to win an mvp
@@Josiah-gk4ou"Hold the ball all game" 🧢
A prosle godine kao 1. Nije osvojio mvp
47% is ridiculous shooting?
we are yet to see what luka and kyrie are in the playoffs yet. it’s gonna be scary don’t let narratives fool you
Embid knows he got a Title he didn’t deserve
Great video! Also first.
Why would you hang your argument on the Mavs being the 8th seed when that part of the standings is so fluid? The better question to ask is... How high in the standings would the Mavericks need to rise to change your mind? If they stay hot, 5th is possible. And if the Clippers free fall worsens then who knows about 4th.
Luka Dončić: are you challenging me bro???
Mavs being the 8th seed isnt a flaw in his MVP case if you add the context that the Mavs were 1 of the most wrecked teams by injuries this year and the absolute domination that has happened after he finally got a healthy team...
If Luka is that good why is he 8. seed? In my opinion he is great player but he play for stats, not for team.
lol what?! if luka was playing for stats the mavs would have way less wins
@@EternalBlue0 if he do not they'll have more, he is good but selfish
I feel bad for Luka. He had to put insane numbers just to win a game against average opponents. But this team is no longer the same team as it was for the last 5 seasons. We finally have a center or two. I think we're on 8-1 win-loss ratio or something, including win over Denver.
Luka literally has kyrie. Another superstar.
@@rektz2457 Sure, and I'm glad, or as Luka would point out "I'm just Robin to Batman". But Luka had to pretend that we're playing with a center. We had none for the past 5 years (unless you count Porzingis).
You can be the best individual player statistically, but whether those stats eventually mean success to your team is, I think, one of the factors that determine the season MVP.
Great stats become meaningless if the do not translate to overall team success.
I am not a big joker fan but he clearly the mvp
why is that if i may ask
Just give that damn MVP to luka, jokic doesnt care, jokic care the next race horse touranament
If Luka has this tan the whole year they’d be higher but his stats would even out at least a little
I think the biggest part of this that I haven’t heard anyone bring up is the difference in records in the west, not saying Luka should win it bc of his his but it’s worth considering, the Mavs are the 7th seed with 42 wins at the moment the Thunder are the second seed with 49 wins, that is a much smaller gap than most years and I think it’s a bit of context to consider. It’s not like the Mavs are rolling into the playin with a .500 record this is a team that is still capable of making it to a 50 win season (especially when you consider how easy the Mavs schedule is for the rest of the season)
Best player in the world.
Man, you’re good. You made the exact points I made on his video. It’s not just about stats. It’s how you use them
Saw Jxmy's vid, now convinced Luka should be no.4 and Tatum no.5. But I knew that before, so... He could go up higher if Dallas wins more and others blunder.
Uncut Hoops dropping Jimmy's name!
Jokic is the MVP
Luka isn't leading the league in a single advanced metric. Jokic has been leading the league in almost all advanced metrics for the past three years.
czcams.com/video/BwSts2s4ba4/video.html
Jokic getting a third MVP will be the worst thing that’s ever happened to the NBA. It will really solidify this era of the NBA being one-sided and not two way like the game is supposed to be.
I like Jimmy's videos and I even watched this one and was honestly thinking like this is such a reach. Everything you just said in this video I was thinking to myself the same exact things. There's a reason why hes not on top of the MVP leaderboard and it's no disrespect to him. It's just that other players are doing better and have more impact right now. I get that Luka is averaging 30 and almost the triple-double, but so is Jokic, so that already destroys his whole case.
How does that destroy his case? Luka averages 8 more ppg than Jokic and more apg. And considering he's a point guard averaging nearly 10 rpg, that statement makes no sense.
@@MaydayAggro Lukas impact isn't as big as jokic. If joker doesn't play nuggets standing would probably drastically drop. But with Luka playing alongside even an all star player in kyrie, they're not even top 5 in the west even with a 30 point triple double average 😂. And the mavs don't do as bad when Luka is off the court as the nuggets do worse when jokic is off the court. So clearly jokics overall impact to his team is greater than lukas impact to his team, meaning joker is more valuable as a player. And all I'm saying is almost averaging a triple double isnt as meaningful nowadays, especially when several people are almost doing it also, when your team standing isn't as high as someone else doing it. Westbrook doing it with a low standing team is an exception since it was the first time ever done. And Westbrook actually averaged it instead of almost doing it like Luka. So it's a difference.
@@amcg6075 That just means Luka has a better team than Jokic, which makes his stellar stats, especially ppg and rpg, even more impressive.
@@MaydayAggro the 8 more points clearly isn't making a difference since they sit at 6. And 9 rebounds a game isn't that big a deal as a 6'7" guard. He's big for his position so that's a given as rebounds can be gotten any which way as long as he hustles. If anything I'd make the case kyrie has a bigger impact for the mavs than Luka right now
@@MaydayAggro it's not that impressive if they're not even top 4 or 5 in the west. If his team was better why aren't they top of the west 🤷♂️ SGA being younger and having a bigger impact for his team winning is more impressive while averaging 30.
I agree 100 percent with you! To me there is 2 reasons to put up with all the negativity you get no matter who you are in professionals sports if you the best they hate you cause they jealous and always trying to bring you down and if you bad they always want to get rid of you ...And those 2 reasons are MONEY ...ANd Championships! I am a celtics guy and i believe tatum deserves to be up there because we have been dominate in the east and the joker is my number one as well and i hate saying that cause i want to see the MVP back in green but I can only go with stats to start the convo then wins to finish it...THen in the off there a tie i go with what you brought up how much of the offense are they of the team during the wins and when they are not playing and so forth! Great break down!
I agree that Luka doesn't get enough love from the media as he ought to, but JxmmyHighroller's case for Luka being MVP was completely flawed. As you rightfully pointed out, Jokic and Westbrook's supporting cast in their MVP season were basically trash yet they managed to keep them off the play-in tournament and have all time great individual statistics, Westbrooks 42triple doubles in one season, and Jokic breaking every advanced stat in 2022. Luka has Kyrie, and the most efficient two point shooter in the game in Daniel Gafford, his team should be way higher. Yes he leads the league in scoring, but he's shooting less than 50% and is 2nd in the league in turnovers, I'm sorry but that's not MVP.
Jokic is leading the league in BPM, OBPM, VORP, PER, Win Shares, Offensive Win Shares, and is the only player in top 6 in TOTAL points, rebounds and assists, while being first in his conference. It's not hating on Luka, right now, Jokic is just the best candidate.
The Dallas mavericks have been a top 3 injured team throughout the season. Your arguments are also flawed. You’re acting like Luka has had Kai the whole season or Gafford the whole season.
Jammal Murray was also hurt in the beginning of this season. Yet still Denver is first now. @@juniormazariego9701
That's exactly the argument that Jimmy made as well: team standing statistically matters a lot in MVP rating, but it shouldn't. Being a masterful player drafted by a bad team doesn't make you less of a masterful player. It's MVP not MVT.
We running out of narratives against jokic because he already surpassed everything.
2021-bounced early in playoffs & 2 best teammates injured
2022 bounced early and no defense and no murray.
2023 healthy but people believe he wont win.
Whats next?
2023 healthy