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MORE HORSEPOWER with Less Boost?! | Building a Monster Truck Engine Pt 8
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- čas přidán 29. 11. 2019
- With the addition of one component, Gale and the team are able to make more horsepower with less boost. How? An intercooler. Here's the data behind the science.
Part 1: • Data Logging | Buildin...
Part 2: • Monster Mutt Data | Bu...
Part 3: • Methanol Dyno Testing ...
Part 4: • Behind the Scenes | Bu...
Part 5: • FIRST FIRE! | Building...
Part 6: • We KILLED a Supercharg...
Part 7: • Whipple Vs. Roots SUPE...
Instrumentation used in this video:
Banks iDash 1.8 DataMonster
bnks.pw/idash
iDash Tips & Tricks
bnks.pw/idashtips
Intercoolers and Boost Tubes
bankspower.com...
#Monstertruck #Engines #Supercharger
Banks stays savage calling out all the other manufacturers!
Never change you absolute legend.
Dr. Nice
It was a nice way to give them the middle finger.
Especially if he's got the evidence to back it up ;)
Don't think for one minute Gale hasn't already done his own testing of those other brands to see how they flow vs his own designs. Gale is a master of scientific development with facts to back it up.
@@richb.4374 never said he hadnt.....just making a statement that if they call him out then he can throw the book at them
I love this guy!
Called out other intercooler brands by name!!
You never know though, there intercoolers might be good.....
But they don't know that for sure though ;)
I don't think so. He's probably already tested them and has the results in hand, with proof that they need to go back to the drawing board, and rework their products.
@@markbremmer8642 you're probably right....
It would be nice to see how they stack up, a video like he did with the inlet elbows would be good, but with intercoolers.
While using a Whipple which is most likely a Garrett core
@@prcdjhnsn true, but if it fits the purpose then why go out of your way to make another one?
Mr Banks you got balls calling out those brands
IDreamOfDragons O I say confidence in his testing and products, and a big pair!🤣🤣🤘🏻👍🏻
Thats’s the difference between an Alpha and Beta male!
mr banks has been in the business for decades. mishimoto etc are a dime a dozen chinese bling sellers that got known just because of their aggresive marketing.
I love Gail banks and the channel it's like sitting in the best classroom in the world so much excellent info and education .......thank you .☺
You turn it to 11 when digging for data. Love it! I have learned so much watching you share you knowledge and experience with more power. I though once bigger turbo, more pressure, more power but that is so far correct. Thank you for that! Love the flexing at 13:18 I was rolling. You got some big guns and no fear at all.
I love your videos and I like how you don't talk marketing but speak with science and numbers. You have done so much for the industry, and instead of being another copycat, you are the real deal.
I've been following a couple of your series for a while now. I'm versed in engines and terminology working on anything from Jeep I6 4.0L up to 69L Cat 3516 engines. It's amazing to watch your thought process. The info has been there the whole time, but you are the one to unlock it. The way you explain everything makes it very easy to follow. It's like a light bulb turns on and I'm like "Hey, that makes a lot of sense!". Granted, there's a whole lot of engineering and number crunching behind the scenes, but you portray it so well!
Keep it up! I'll be waiting for your next video!
0.o 69L engines sounds like fun
The rest of us: "Goodness gracious this is some potent and well presented information"
Dyno throttle guy: *Yawn*
You understand the processes far better than some fashion players. I really appreciate some hard numbers on the efficiency gain from better intercooling. I have always appreciated the thermodynamic benefits but the gain from parasitic drag was surprising. Many intercoolers are just air-cooled heat sinks but yours will stand a sustained load where the others will fade out. Once again I salute your knowledge and experience. The best way to promote your products is exactly how you are doing it. Real testing!
Lol just imaging the type of questions subscribers to this channel are going to be asking their supercharger and inter cooler companies going forward. "Forget boost what's the MAD!" 😂😂😂 I learn an incredible amount from these Videos, thanks Gayle you're a legend.
I want to buy a truck just so I can buy Banks products.
He does everything exactly the way I dream of being able to do it myself.
I'm a fan of electric vehicles and never gave a damn about diesels before I started watching Bank's "How to kill a Duramax" videos. Learned so much.
I mean....banks is such a legend and some of his products versatile enough that I'm putting them literally into a super/hyper car kit car build. Thinking the data monster specifically. Data monster plus some other gauges and displays should keep things concise easy to read and not take up a ridiculous amount of dash real estate.
Plus might see if some of his air filters will work. His one filter does pretty much no intake restriction. And this video series gets into like my whole concept for my boost system.
Twincharged for those benefits. Throttle response being a main one. But then also blower effiency theory gets into it. Idea is more nuanced boost system, more so controlled induction then forced induction and designed to really boost effiency.
Engine is a hot vee configuration. Means 2 supers need but also helps with effiency of the supers for sizing reasons. Under driven while still being oversized and pushing enough air flow and adding some pressure but at really low ar ratios. Feed em with turbos. 2 separate banks of boost also means more cooling capacity and hot vee helps that plus turbo spool. Shorter piping runs and hot vee closer turbo packaging. Water to air under the blower style intercoolers and then normal turbo style ones in between the 2 stages. Power the water to air system with an interchiller and the ac. Ac compressor swap and gear ratios swap to suit right till redline usage.
Air flow air pressure and air temps all controlled. Means even with low valve lift and cam profiles that don't necessarily suit the revs I want I can kinda force the air required to keep the engine going. Map the boost to gear and rpms and available traction and it should feel like the best NA engine ever but with an insanely wide powerband that's tuned. Too much early torque fresh air antilag cut some intake out to help with turbo spool. Dramatic temp differences should also cause nice expansion helping things out.
Blower high volumetric effiency. Turbo high mechanical effiency. Turbos help thermal effiency. Can get both stages to peak compression effiency in terms of heat added and for the blowers parasitic losses wise. Reduce other losses and make up for some lost blower effiency on the engine. But can also bypass it if needed and do so easier then old set ups. Super bypass valves integrated into the set up should do fine. And still let me get 2 stages of cooling when the turbo makes all the boost at high rpms and low boost maps. For high boost just run compound boost for effiencies.
Since less heat and better scavenging and reversion resistance. Less detonation issues and combustion chamber temps. Better peak timing for less losses, as well as no fuel needed for cooling properties.
Add in the engine has vtec and is flatplane v8. Exhaust performance and back pressure is gonna be way lower then expected with really good turbo spool. Might go twin scroll turbos to help even further.
But add on I'll be able to use the boost system with a few tweaks to set up a natural running vacuum pump set up on the crank case. Plus air oil and air water separators. Windage and pumping losses should be fair small. Stiffer block and other stuff. Less deflectional losses.
Essential a controlled dynamic compression ratio, via vtec and the 2 cam profiles, and via the boost pressures. Along with controlled induction and exhaust characteristics. Goal is like almost 300hp per litre or 150 per cylinder. And like 300 percent volumetric effiency combined. And 40 percent thermal effiency and other effiencies.
Thanks again for sharing what others would considering trade secrets and not holding back
Another video showing real world results. Really fascinating to see actual numbers and the graphs make it all a no brainer. A win on all levels and you have a lot more headroom for power or reliability on top of the economy.
As always awesome video Gale. Thanks for doing that intercooler leason, lots of good info. I remember talking to you about it on Facebook awhile back
Gale Banks is a genius. Thanks for the education. Merry Christmas
This is just awesome ,being able to precisely pinpoint where the numbers are coming from!
5:45 Typo. An efficient intercooler makes the supercharger or turbocharger's (not intercooler's) job easier. Great series, btw. Love how you bring the tech and not the fluff.
We saw it. Sorry about that.
SHOTS FIRED SHOTS FIRED I REPEAT SHOTS FIRED!!!! Everyone run, and duck for cover.
Ho-lee _shit!_ the game is set, will they step up to the plate?
It kinda looks like they still have their heads down. I'm guessing the first person to stand up gets shot.
Aussie guy says wow man ! Don't let up on em ! Some went over my head, but thanks for opening my eyes to real "GRUNT" Cheers brother !
I love learning from Mr banks he makes it so easy to learn
Gale "the mad scientist" Banks,,,, this guy is a genius when it comes to engine performance, and a absolute perfectionist.
This is true.
Been loving this series. I so want to see a comparison of intercoolers.
Gale Banks... a legend when I first started working on engines. Brilliant and well spoken. I'm enjoying watching him explain all this, as well as all the advances in technology that have made monitoring these parameters possible on high speed engines.
Mr Gale genuine engineer!! and talk presenting with datas and facts.
Sweet-I really wish you built a intercooler for my 2nd gen. Ram. If you do I promise I’ll be the first to buy one. Thumbs up if anyone else would.
Thanks Gale
Time to get custom
I made some brackets for the 5.9 version
Thanks Mr Banks - a very insightful & informative video.
Thank you Mr. Banks for yet another great video
I love your work, dedication & commitment. Excellent products & very fair pricing considering the research you've performed. Keep it coming!
Thank you for making the videos. I learn alot and really enjoy the videos
I’m only disappointed that you didn’t start doing these types of videos 10 years sooner.
10 years ago these data acquisition tools would have been very expensive.
Prof. Banks at it again. Thank you for today's lesson.
Love the dig on BD... my neighbours here in Abbotsford BC. My friend had this boost issue with a system he got through them. 2 years ago mind you. scary heat on the Highway through Hell in august with his 32ft travel trailer in tow eh
Someone who isn’t afraid to call out other companies and show the science and math behind his products
That's great Gale, but where is my dead Duramax?
In the trash where it belongs🤭.
J/k , I'm a ethanol guy all " bug foggers" are silly to me, but to each there own. If I ever needed the low rpm torque I'd definitely go " greaseil " but I'm a " power choke " fan. 😎
Pure genius and he makes you feel smarter just listening to him, because he explains everything so well that you can't help but to understand. I just wish I had half his knowledge.
This is LITERALLY a 30 minute demonstration of the basics of the Ideal Gas Law - and it's hilarious that nobody thinks about simple physics.
Great video, unbelievably simple explanation of all aspects of the intercooler performance. For a guy dragging his race car around the country the right intercooler can drastically extend engine life and save a lot of money in fuel, here's the proof.
You've got to love Mr Banks, flipping off aftermarket manufacturers who don't do there homework and take lots of our money!
Let's bark this pup !!!!🥊👍
hey man, i love your rods!
Impressive numbers on that intercooler Mr. Banks. I like what im seeing. Can hardly wait till you mount the turbos.....
With the improved intercooler and the resulting boost drop; I'd like to see the boost cranked back up and the numbers compared at the same boost levels since that's what any owner would do.
Would be interesting but the fact is the lower boost setup/s will live longer.
Boost from a super charger is because of restrictions as you see here same pulleys less boost more power more efficient. Turbocharged is different when talking boost pressure it is controlled by a waste gate or variable turbo not restriction.
That's where the owners are wrong, because boost doesn't always equal to power. but to be fair I fell into that hole once, didn't make anymore power but just increased my intake temp lmao.
@@hendrahendra heat induced boost is always a net loss, like pushing a turbocharger out of the efficiency island. Yes more boost but less power due to less O2 in the cylinders.
@@willydunn6978 Eh? Boost is ALWAYS a measure of restriction, doesn't matter what variety of compressor it is. For examples, go watch some of Richard Holdeners dyno tests where swaps cams on turbo motors and watch how a cam that allows the engine to flow more air NA results in less boost and more power when no other changes are made to the system.
A compressor is a compressor is a compressor. They are more similar than they are different, and none of them are magic.
He's an automotive God!!! I'm learning so so much from you.. WOW!!
Brilliant. A thinking man's way to making power. Kudos Mr. Banks. Now let's step it up and measure exhaust components. If we can show more complete combustion then the regulatory agencies will cut us some slack!
Maybe. The purpose of the government is not to leave people alone.
Love it banks, appreciate the knowledge
This video, and this entire series...should have 1 million likes. Just sayin'! Gale has gone complete gangst'a on this one!
I got nothing against Banks, but to help everyone out before you sit through this video. This ENTIRE video is basically an add
If your not already, I’d be curious to see the power gain from Amsoil in the engine and supercharger. We sell several weights of compressor oil that would work perfect in the whipple.
Not to worry. If all goes as planned, there will be quite a bit of Amsoil in upcoming videos.
Hello, Gale! Big appreciation to your knowledge, experience and expertise! And big thanks for sharing them! I want to ask you to add metric values to your graphs, at least the temperatures, because pressure and torque are okay to understand, but when 279f (137c) drops to 79f (26c), by 200f, but 200f is 93c, and that hurts metric brains🤣
Boom. Old man has IT!
13:19 BURN!
Gale, I have learned so damn much from you on this channel in the past couple years. Thank you.
You’re showing a post cooler air temp of 79 degrees suggesting that the water is not engine coolant but is from another source of cold water. On a monster truck, this would be feasible, have a tank, fill with water and run it for ten minutes. But what about cruising down the highway in a pickup? We would need to use engine coolant for the intercooler. Even if the intercooler were first in line for the water when it came out of the radiator, I’d imagine you’re still looking at 120-150 degree water for the intercooler on a hot day. I would be very interested to see this test run under those conditions as well.
factory built supercharged vehicles typically run a seperate cooling system for the intercooler and engine. the intercooler system will have a heat exchanger much like the one shown here, then it will have an electric pump and a separate radiator. coolant in these systems really doesnt get past lukewarm. in a monster truck they could likely get away with an ice bath setup like a drag car as the monster trucks only run for a couple minutes at a time while making power, although a small radiator for the intercooler system with a fan would likely work well.
Thanks. That’s very logical.
All the aftermarket companies provide a separate tank and pump for their intercoolers. They don't run through the radiator because it would be ineffective.
Awesome technical strip down of fluid and thermodynamics giving real results. It would be nice if °R was used instead of °F when working out % drop of inlet temp. Thermo either works on delta T or absolute. Still - massive temp drop and density change.
Really can't knock products Engineered so well, especially with such enthusiasm shown!
I looked at the supercharger and said where’s the engine?
🤣🤣😂🤣
"We're not going to de rate our engine by over heating our coolent with our big ass intercooler" love this channel. not as much of a diesel guy but all this air charge stuff applies just as well to gasoline engines. this guy and his brain are going to help me get a lot, a LOT of real big traffic tickets lol
This is the pinnacle of explaining intake. Bc it's NOT pressure as you say.
I've always thought that power = the delta between the volume + temp (MAD) in vs out.
So the cooler (and more) air in ... and the hotter out ... the more pressure equals more power.
Power is a function of the temperature deltas of the air (minus mechanical losses to get it in)
Shove in hot air, you CAN'T change the pressure as much.
That was the most detailed description for the injection timing I ever heard !! Thank you.
How does this compare to prechamber diesels ? I have an OM602 2,9l 5 cylinder and the injection pump is set to 24° before tdc (fuel delivery start) I imagine the actual injection / combustion occures quite a bit later du to the "mechanical lag" of the injection nozzles and building up to that opening pressure in the injection line. On top of that the prechamber system further retards the complete combustion of the diesel in favour of less NVH. This would be biblically late compered to the 40° before tdc of that l5p. What happenes if I advance the pump ? What would be too much und Why ?
Regards
Simon
Dyno cell one, where dreams become reality.
#truestory
You could think of the 17 horsepower coming from the fact that the blower is pushing against a lower manifold pressure due to the intercooler.
This dude is the fucking man! C’mon now!!! Listening to him make sense of this stuff makes the “others” look like little school children trying to explain their lies.
Dr. Banks time... fire up some popcorn and open your ears
More INCREDIBLE tech information, THANK YOU!!!
Absolutely Savage I love it! If you are going to turn the aftermarket intercooler world upside down don't forget about the Ford 6.7 guys, don't leave us out in the cold....or hot 🤔
I know everyone is lost for the most paert but i love the explanation everything makes sense im sure the other brands dont do all this testing.
Mr. Banks looks like Giuliani's smarter brother.
So you have to fill the bed of your truck with ice for the intercooler before you go up a 6% grade?
Well duh, do you not have the newest latest and greatest intercooler ice production unit device controller unit module with the now new handheld controller!?!?!? Spits ice cubes at an astounding rate this new unit, 118CPM
That's quite this increase compared to them other untested brands like motomishi, toyorad, etc etc. Griffin Thermal Products is the next best option in my opinion tho.
Good Luck and Let's Gooooo!!!!
200ga of iced water lasted 4.25mi @Bonneville for the Salty Box Racing team running there dodge Cummins to 227.xx mph (1/2 mph short of B/DT a world record)
Much respect to Mr Banks. Amazing
MR. BANKS YOU ARE A TOP LEGEND !!!
This series has been extremely informative so far. There's an error at 15:31. Someone put a down arrow on the increase in MAF.
Maths, physics and information these things are the key to proper r&d.👍👍
Thank you Mr Banks!
What about condensation on the liquid intercooler when the air isn't always flowing and max capacity?
Andrew Hokanson I agree, the fluid that gaming computers use could be used, or something similar
Boost is just a measure of air restrictions, reduce restrictions =reduce boost with a gain or no loss of power? Gale just proved that!!
He added more restriction and made more power boost is a measurement of pressure not restriction
@@bill2178 almost correct.
Without restricting flow there is no pressure.
Eg . A water hose mesuring water pressure in free air =0psig. Now measure the pressure at the other end of that 100' hose >0psig . The skin friction and turbulent boundary layer cause restriction therefore pressure.
They flow in and out like a mother! Lmao! Haha
But 20 somethings wanna buy bling and roll coal and have stupid rims that stick out a mile thats what these companies are banking their profits on....
I've been dealing with this for years on Zed40 Sulzer diesels. I thought the reason vehicle didn't use liquid cooled intercoolers was space under the hood? Seeing the actual mathon this though is great and I could watch Gale bust the status quo all day. Watch his reverse engineering of differential covers of all things. Bravo sir!
Before long Mr banks will hanging out around bridges collecting tolls.
Most savage engineering nerd. Love this dude.
Yes why not just install and calibrate various pressure sensors before and after the charge? Gauge can read the average?
An air to air heat exchanger is an extremely variable test/environment. Great discussion though.
When we develop a way to preserve the human mind forever we should save Gale Banks first.
Gale for President!
* Hail to the chief plays in the distance * 🗽🇺🇸🦅
Most of these comments are too focused praising Mr Banks on criticizing the competition rather than what was learned. Love your boost gauge way too much, not focused on the importance of intercooling. What I learned in this video applies to what interest me most which is gas burning spark engines, especially twincharged projects which is the point of this series of videos...
So awesome what you do with your videos Gale. You guys are so friggen rad at what you do and how you go about it. Cant wait to see the twins on and your future Intercooler comparisons!!! I bought a Mishomoto for my 01 Dodge and have a sneaky suspicion that its gonna SUCK at one point or another vs your Banks model!! 🥴 Look fwd to some more class professor POWER!! 🤘💪✊
What about on a 5.9 adding a killer chiller between the monster ram and the intake? Or taking your Big in take for the 5.9 and installing a killer chiller inside of it????
would have loved to see detailed stuff about intercooler endtank design and how it effects efficiency power levels and cfm between the typical boxy end tanks end up the what might be the ideal design
Absolute legend!!!
Gale is the whole reason I'm chasing the dream of being an engineer.
The will to win, the desire to succeed, the urge to reach your full potential... these are the keys that will unlock the door to personal excellence. - Confucius
@@bankspower
Damn! Now that's a helluva an amazing quote!!! Confucius-always a boss!!!
@@austinsears1637
Today Duramax, Tomorrow the world.
James Bond.
Nice, thanks.
Not to be a naysayer, I do think Banks has some really great products. However, isn't a MAF (Manifold Air Flow) doing the same job as a MAD sensor, just computed to different engineering units? Also for that matter, it really seems to have more in common with a MAP sensor data when coupled with and IAT.
Are yall going to design a water to air intercooler replacement for the 6.7l powerstrokes?
Thanks for all this badass data Gale! Can you tell us at what EGT the stock engines start to derate?
1450° F is typically where most diesels begin to derate.
Id love to see a turbo blower with this set up. Blower for immediate power, turbo to make more boost and unload the blower. That would be interesting to see a professional do it. Check out the Camaro on 1320's channel. It's nuts
its like when lingefelter put those twins on the rear of the vet. sure, he dropped boost pressure but the temp drops made up for it.
I think Gale Banks could make Chuck Norris cry.
how does this guy only have only 189k subs?
OK, I have a couple of questions, comments - just curious; So what was ambient temperature? As I look at my air density chart, I'm having trouble getting a density that low at sea level/with a temp lower than 79F - am I right in assuming the difference is the altitude of your shop, or is the intercooler actually sub-cooling the air charge below ambient temperature? (Not unusual on a marine engine.). The other question relates to the intercooler - I am curious as to how will you be cooling the water from the intercooler in a truck, I am assuming a separate "radiator" (H20/Air Heat Exchanger), will you be regulating that temperature somehow? I hope that all my questions have not been answered elsewhere. Thanks.
I'd love to see the test of the air cooler on a naturally aspirated motor and see if it gained any hp and or made more consistent power or does it just make a restriction in intake and lose power
thats why Im a fan or true Cold Air Intakes. If you're sucking hot air it kills HP and boost!
What temperature water is being pumped into the air/water intercooler?
If the water temp is rising 22 degrees, and the outlet air is 79, I would have to assume at most 57, but I'm not necessarily qualified to answer than with any confidence.
@@IceBergGeo I wish it were that simple...
@@matthewlemke5265 I know... Just a slightly smart-ass answer... counter-flow chilling, and other things can influence it all the same. Like I said, not qualified...
Great as usual. I would really like to see the inter cooler tests from others. Unfortunately you don't support my Super duty, presently.
I love how you are explaining to people that rolling coal is not the answer to making big power. With the diesel there's slightly too rich which turns the injectors into a cutting torch. EGTs through the roof. Gas tuning dudes add even more fuel to the point so much is unburned it cools. It doesn't add a lick of power. If they just backed it down until the EGTs dropped again they would be in the sweet spot!! They have to waste a ton of fuel to drop temps. Even then it's still getting too hot.
So the Roots Blower in low speed applications(idle - 2,300 rpm) like a 2-stroke Detroit is still viable. Could a Whipple be a substitute for the Roots in an application like that? BTW, proper development of your 'Design of Experiments' process. Good thing you don't pay the 'experts'. Thanks for the input.
Wondering the same thing myself. I'm getting a project truck with a 8v71 soon and I will be slapping a whipple on that SOB as soon as I can. We will have results. I'll get an idash setup for good measure. 8v92s had intercooler under the blower and I bet with the blocks being similar sizes one of those will fit.
@@theq4602 So "Whipple" does make a large enough supercharger for an engine that size? Does the twin-screw work as well or better at the lower rpm of the big diesel like the Detroit?