Cuman Overview AoE2
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Analysis of the Cumans bonuses, Kipchak, unique techs, and tech tree.
BONUSES
1:00 Team Bonus: Palisade walls +50% HP
1:45 Additional town center in feudal age
More in-depth analysis of the 2 town center boom graph: • Which is better: Cuman...
5:15 Siege workshop and battering ram in Feudal age; capped ram in Castle age.
6:08 Cavalry 5% faster each age (starting in Feudal age)
UNIQUE UNIT AND TECHS
7:45 Kipchak
More in-depth analysis compared to Mangudai and Cav archer • Mangudai, Kipchak, Cav...
9:30 Steppe Husbandry (2x production speed of hussars, steppe lancers, and cav archers)
10:18 Cuman Mercenaries
More detailed analysis of benefits and mechanics of Cuman Mercenaries: • Cuman Mercenaries in AoE2
TECH TREE
11:12 Archers C+
11:40 Infantry B
12:04 Cavalry A
12:40 Siege B+
13:03 Navy C
13:25 University/defences C+
14:00 Monks C
14:22 Economy A+
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Full intro song: • Spirit of the Law Chan...
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition, with Forgotten Empires, African Kingdoms, Rise the Rajas, and Last Khans expansions - Hry
"Looking at the monks, there is no redemption." They are beyond salvation.
IIRC, somecumans were christians.
No redemption for cummen
Amen
True
Lol
"If its a Cuman it ain't human" Henry of Skalitz.
jesus christ be praised
Kurvafix!
"Ba-da-ba-da-ba-be bop bop bodda bope
Bop ba bodda bope" The Scatman
Quest started rattay tourey
...lmao
Me, getting attacked by Rams in Feudal: Oh lord, he Cuman.
"What are you doing steppe-bro?"
Cuman
Oh, hun, i'm sure it's alright
in-game, with the Definitive Edition's Art of War section, there is an early economy challenge where you get from Dark Age to Feudal Age as fast as possible. They show you how to do it before and during, and can be a great place to practice over and over.
You can also watch Spirit of the Law's video on the first 15 villagers for a more in-depth explanation. You'll have to multitask a whole bunch and adjust timings a lot. I get to mostly 8-10 minute advances as i'm a campaign casual but i am learning
I'll be going to the market now, tatar...
Oh gawd I'm Cuman AAAAAAAARGHHHH!!!
I'm pretty sure the most aggressive way to play Cumans is to delete your starting TC and drop *two* TCs on your opponent.
Persian Douche vs Cuman Douche
One douches you twice as hard, the other douches you twice at once.
The double Rubenstock...
the Cooman DP
@@swamplife3148 Cumman DP
Oh shit... i was planning to do that today :,D
I remember when Cumans got the 15% speed buff AND husbandry. Their scouts practically flew across the map
Cumans: Get a C+ in defenses
Goths who got a F in defenses: Bruh, what about my wall of Huskarls
Any Civ: lack Bracer
Spirit of the Law: I'm about to end this man's whole career
Imagine if there was a civ without Bodkin Arrow...
Completely unplayable
@@rubywest5166 I think Burmese don't get bodkin
@@salildeshpande7 Burmese have bracer. It's the second archer armour upgrade that they lack.
Honestly missing thumb ring is a much bigger mark against a civ, since that means your dps is both slower in theory and in practice since more shots miss
@@rubywest5166 Persian civ overview flashbacks
Ahhh! I clicked on "Magyars Overview AoE2" and this was on Up next! CZcams doing great with the instant recommendations (for once)
After many years, a review for all civilizations, I can now die in peace and quiet.
Nice
Until they add more! I still miss the Dutch and Tibetans.
Some of the older Civs could use a new video, though.
Off the top of my head I don't remember the Tarkans being talked about at all in the Huns video.
Poland was robbed 😭 We have to use Magyars (Hungary) to roleplay as them. O well
@@kevinhernandezretana2170 lithuanians are better for roleplaying them
Cumans may be a B+ for siege overall, but they're definitely A+ in the early game. by which i mean, they _have_ siege in the early game.
There are S in early game because there the only one Who have siege in secand age
The early siege can for sure be strong, though Im not sure if people have really figured out its potential, which makes it that much more interesting.
any siege is better than no siege!
Pretty costy though
@@CrnaStrela the fuedal ram is almost useless. Castle age capped ram is massive though.
SOTL and me: Our mutual love for Bracer. ❤
@Emre Vural Bracer all day, every day. Hit and run, baby. 11
@@HeavyCavalryArcher Magyars have a second Bracer for you, bro. Your wish has come true.
I don't even play this game, but still am watching this videos.
You really should, it's amazing and Spirit's videos help a ton for understanding it in depth
I've been like that for like... 5 years
Now I play the game :D
@Goldwipf Happens to me as well; don't play this game anymore but still watch SOL.
Glad to hear I'm not alone haha I use to play it all the time, it's been years I don't play it anymore but these videos are great haha
I downloaded DE because of this guy after not having played for years lol
Got to love how the Elite Steppe Lancer is clearly based off of the Cumans with their distinctive masks, and yet Cumans get the most generic ones. Mongols do better in melee while Tatars can take more ranged damage. I wish they'd scrap the useless Cuman Mercenaries tech and replace it with a tech that benefited their steppe lancers in some way. Maybe give them a slight attack or melee armour increase for something like 500 food and 400 gold?
Long spears: increase there range from 1 to 3.
@@rougeone2124 it's already weird that kamayuks have longer spears than pikemen. 4 ranks of Steppe Lancers attacking 1 rank of pikes would be insane!
And another good balance update would be to have the full speed bonus from castle age.
@@rougeone2124 That would be beyond broken for pretty much any melee unit, but it would be especially broken for the Cumans since their steppe lancers train 50% faster already.
@@gamaxgbg I like the idea of increasing the bonus by 5% per age. So they effectively get husbandry in the Feudal Age with +10%, +15% in castle age and +20% in imperial age. As it stand its only really a 5% increase over almost every other civ so it doesn't mean much. The only non American civs that lack husbandry are the Vikings (who never make cavalry anyway) and Teutons. So in practice the Cumans bonus is being 5% faster which is negligible.
Honestly siege is heavily carried by capped ram in castle. That bonus is amazing and I think you really underestimate it.
Being able to push with kipchaks and capped ram in castle after feudal booming can basically clean up castles, which are usually the "go to imp" sign
Surprisingly enough, that is EXACTLY how I cleared most of the Cumans' Campaign: advance with Rams and covering them with Kipchaks for range and other cavalries for melee. And that was when I had never played the Cumans before, it just felt natural.
@@MrDibara honestly speaking i think campaigns are amazing at teaching you which are the strengths of civs. I came back to aoe2 with DE after having played original AoC on voobly and I learnt new civs for pvp just by playing campaigns and realizing the strenghts of each civ with them
I have utterly destroyed castles with Feudal age rams before, and I'll do it again!
I recently played the Cumans' Campaign and I was _on the edge of my seat_ through the entire experience!
The Campaign is probably not historically accurate at all, but it made me fall in love with the Cumans, even more then the Mongols! This fierce, tough, hardworking, nomadic warrior people, always getting the short end of the stick but ALWAYS rising up again and again, and if you double-cross them _you're gonna pay in blood!_ Also, their armor is so cool!
Gosh-darnit, I want to see you do a History vs Campaign video on the Cumans, *Spirit!* I'd love to learn more about this people and the struggles they went through!
It's actually not as historically inaccurate as you might think.
It's a fun and interesting campaign
I did a little bit of research and based on that, they did a really good job.
its historically accurate for a game though
It is historically accurate?
No matter your opinion on the Cumans, we can all agree that their campaign is hella fun
You've inspired me to actually give it a try.
Hey spirit, I just wanted to thank you for all these years of reviewing and analyzing stuff :) your content is always highly enjoyable and puts a smile on my face every time.
Thanks again ❤️👌
WHAT THIS GUY SAID! in caps.
Would you consider to do a "How to counter" series? For example "how to counter aztecs" with each of the other civilizations and maybe map's specifics strategies?
that'd be awesome
It'd be great, and it'd be distinct from Hera's "So You Want To Play _____?" series without just nakedly copying him.
@@jefffinkbonner9551 Sadly, even if he would take the idea, I don't think SOTL will see the comment ☹. I will repost it (again) if I can be earlier next video.
Counter aztecs: play byzantine and fast castle.
I like this idea
Protip: Do not refer to "Cumans" as "Cummy's"
Refer to them as "Coomans!"
i love the cums!
@@ramsesbams what a fucking EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Aaaagghhh. I'm gonna
MAKE ME
Cumans
Analysing capabilities....
Processing...
Recommended role: Harassing, Booming.
Long live the metal mustached masks!
Hello, I am from Makedonia. My tribe and Family(Ouglashoglu) Cuman origin.
Hope you like the game. Cumans is one of my best civs.
I don't know about you guys, but I _Kipchak-ing_ SotL's channel for this Cuman's overview video xD
XD keep checking right?
boo
The last time I was this early, Franks had seriously OP paladins
you dont know how much I hate bloodlines for that :c
With the power creep of other civs (Teutons extra melee armor, Lithuanian relic bonus and LEITIS, other Paladin civs' open tech trees) even giving the berry bonus and chivalry creation time tech to Franks seem underwhelming. Sure, their online win rate is top-tier, but I still think that since the introduction of bloodlines in The Conquerors, Frankish cavalry should have a +25% hp bonus instead of +20%. Or perhaps +20% Castle, +25% Imperial; that way, it'd be like free bloodlines in Castle for knights, and in Imp, cavaliers would have 150hp vs 144 now, which is a lame bonus vs generic 140hp, and paladins would have 200hp vs 192 now and 180 generic.
@@jefffinkbonner9551 yeah buff the top tier civilization. good plan
@@matheusrios4223 life hasn't been the same since.
@@jefffinkbonner9551 not sure how that would help with balance though given how they're already top tier. They'll probably take one cavalry armour for that the extra 5%, making frank hussars weaker than they already are. Frank Paladins are fine now but I miss the days you could demolish entire armies with them without having to worry about counters. More than the civ creep the introduction of halberdiers really nerfed cavalry in general.
Steppe husbandry: stables go brrr
-makes 15 min vid bout cumans
-ends with "that's the cumans in a nutshell"
Well, in fairness I didn't specify the type of nutshell. Coco de mer can weigh over 50 lbs. If you count those, nutshells can be quite large.
yeah Amol...geez, familiarize yourself with some nuts dude...
@@SpiritOfTheLaw Those are... big nuts
Ay man, just wanna say 'thanks' for making all these reviews, tutorials, and overall gameplay vids! I was huge into AOE and AOE2 with my brothers when it first launched and we have just gotten back into it. You bringing info and excitement back to the game (even though, yes, it's a relaunch with it's own due excitement) has really brought a lot of fun back to me and my brothers.
Jyuuuuuuuuuuuuust sayin', keep on keepin' on and big thanks!!!
I gotta say, I love your intro so much I never skip it! I think you’re the only CZcams channel where I can say that. Please keep using it! No remakes, no nothing =)
As a hobbyist musician and music producer I do think it could be produced "better", but I’m SUPER GLAD it is the way it is because it has loads and loads of character.
Btw: Have I mentioned that I love your intro?
I like to play the cumans like this (in nooby teamgames):
Fast feudal -> double tc boom -> late castle -> instantly build a castle -> imperial -> FU elite steppe lancer spam
I'm surprised that the Monks and Navy didn't get a "D" or "F". Is a "C" the lowest we go anymore?
I thought the same
Aztecs deserve an F
@@CoranhonPlaying On Navy sure, but they have the best monks in the game
Oh they actually did get an F for late-game navy, being the only civ without Galleons and a substandard tech tree.
As a micro nerd, I've been enjoying this new civ a lot, having played since AoC. I love SotL's on-paper analysis and it has its place, but this is not an on-paper civ where two armies are 1-A'd (that is, attack moved, in Starcraft jargon) into each other. His conclusion makes this point clear. The big theme for this civ is mobility, even in the palies. I'm going to "main" this civ for a while and see what comes of it. The things I see so far is that you have to have good map awareness, and know how to develop your econ while you play aggressively in the field. You can't afford to have your opponent meet you at your base. Anyway, sick video as always. Would love to hear some thoughts from other fans of the civ as well.
100% true
Damn the extra arrows have 3 pierce damage and 0 melee damage? That must have taken some working out!
:p
All my friends can't say anything but Coomers when referring to this Civ.
I say Cummers
This helps make the start of the week easier :)
Interesting civilization especially the part about making extra town center and ram in feudal age makes them able to spend more time in feudal since they can use their rams to rush even on maps such as fortress. With a good sized feudal army, they can prevent someone from reaching castle age or attack them in early castle age and defeat them before they do much research. The unique unit is a cavalry cho ko nu.
Thank you i've been waiting for ever!
Finally, I’ve been waiting for a video on Cumans
1:28 "That's a bit unfortunate for Cumans since, like Goths, they don't have stone walls at all."
* shows "I'm in danger meme *
Goths: "I'm not in danger. I AM the danger."
I had never heard of these guys before this game aside from the name popping up as a barbarian hideout at times in Civ4. This inspired me to look them up and they're pretty interesting, the way they lived everywhere from Mongolia to Hungary!
Thank god for this @SOL.
Been waiting for this and I don't even play AOE.
College may call for me to join the Zoom chat but...Spirit of the Law has my heart when I see his videos pop up. Must watch
Gotta say, I simply love your Intro.
You can go 19 pop into second tc without too many issues so that there is no worry about your villagers getting attacked while they are building it. The real concern is getting tower rushed especially if your stone is not safe. A fast castle can also punish this as well.
An honour to watch your video within 30 min of upload ❤️
Never has a vid been more timely. I’m on the last mission
@SpiritoftheLaw i would realy love to see a video on husbandry! Especially on the damage increase when chasing units. Love the content
Such a good video; 10/10 would coom again.
Cumans on black forest are fun. Go fast feudal and attack with rams.
That way you can stop one (or two) players castle age and their boom while getting a 2nd tc in feudal yourself, making you feudal ecco stronger than your opponents.
Disclaimer: since I only did this in lobby games I may not guarantee I was not playing with low elo legends and therefore will not guarantee any success. I am unranked myself.
@Bob :) go wild!!!!!
I would be interested to hear if it worked for you :)
Love your videos
great video!
good work as always spirit. you did forget to mention however that you DO get ELITE kipchacks with cuman mercinaries...even if you havent researched the elite upgrade yet. which can be nice in early imp.
Should play the strat of building the second TC and type "XXX has advanced to castle age" to scare off any opponents
Nice! That's all the new civs. Can you do Goths next Spirit?
He has already done it right?
@@varunkaushik2732 yeah but that's old and only applies to hd. Plus with all the changes they could use an update.
Yeah! New Goths are quite different.
@@frankseward7017 Isn't still get to Imp and spam?
@@martijn9568 but now they have even more strategies than imp spam. Early Feudal thanks to free loom. Milita rush. Men at Arms Rush thanks to +1 attack on buildings. And because Goths can counter viturally anything, tgey don't need to rely on imp spam all the time.
Nice one! Now, will you redo some other civilisations which have evolved a lot since 2015, or will you pause it?
If you continue the reviews, I think commenting on the army composition a bit more could be interesting? Always happy to watch anyway!
5:50 Ah of course, the infamaous "Cuman and Slam" strategy.
Been waiting for this eagerly
bailiff's mace: equipped
ice cold saviour schnapps: cracked
lady stephanie: screwed
yep it's cuman killin' time
mom: dead
dad: dead
Bianca: dead
yep it’s Skalitz time
@@RedXD42 this is a certified henry moment
kittykatmann we did it, Sir Radzig
wholesome 100 big czungus Charles IV moment
@@RedXD42 SOYVIOR SCHNAPPS
SOYVIOR SCHNAPPS
Hera showed a good strategy in one of his coaching sessions. (I think he was coaching Daniel). It's an all in fuedal play. First go fast feudal archer rush with 2 forward villagers. Build an archery range and 1 tower to secure a forward base. (Don't build more towers, it's just there to help secure the forward.) Mix in a spear or two to defend against scouts. Next, build a blacksmith, and a siege workshop. Make 1 ram, but don't commit with it. Just do any damage you can with the ram (kill a house or a lumber camp), and keep the pressure up with the archers. As you build up your economy, there are a couple options - add more rams, add scouts, or add your second TC. (Preferably all three). Once you have sufficient military numbers, you can try to kill the TC with 3 rams. Load the archers and any spears into the rams. If vils come out to kill the rams, pop the archers out and run in with your scouts.
I've tried this strategy many times, and it's definitely not easy to pull off. The hardest part is the economy management. You need a lot of wood, for the blacksmith, siege workshop, rams, second TC, and stable. On top of that you need to keep applying pressure or else you will lose your forward and probably lose. If they get to castle age, you can still win, but you really can't lose your army.
drushing into boom is quite good as cumans, relieves the pressure from your base andgives you an edge over your enemy.
Thanks for all your effort, SotL. Will you make a remake of the Huns? I really want to see a in depth analysis of their trebuchet bonus and the tarkans.
I love this channel.
thank you Spirit!!!
Let me get this straith - I play most of RTS games, AoE2 included, more like city-building simulator than how most of players play them. That being said, I dont rush (obliteration of enemy comes in the very last phase of game), I try to make my town(s) to look nice and beliveable, and I just enjoy the creative options in the game. When AoE2DE came out, Cumans were literally first civ I played. I had no use for their first two technologies (I build new TC only after my main town is largely developed, and since my "no rush" style, earlier siege in useless to me anyway). So, perhaps my game-style could be classified as role-play? Idk, you tell me. But people could say I couldnt pick a worse civ for that style, and maybe they are right (although, with this style, which civ would be viable anyway?). But I still play them and enjoy that. I like their architectural style, I like the idea of semi-nomadic heathens and I simply enjoy it. Perhaps playing "full tech tree" is even better with this style (although it is big pain in behind that you cant cant upgrade steppe lancer before you upgrade battle elephants in ftt, since their icons are on same place).
So yes! My playstyle is totaly lame, in multiplayer I would get pulverized even before I would get to Feudal Age and in singleplayer I can play only against standard or moderate AI. And I bloody love it!
I have the same approach to the game...Gather a lot of resources,ammass a large army and have a defendable city with two o three castles before even thinking about attacking...Defend your area until your enemies run out of resources and then starting the offensive...All said, it needs less than ten minutes to an Hard AI to destroy me XD
thats how i enjoy this game with friends and relatives who don't play this game much at all.
Hey Spirit. Thanks for the video. It must feel amazing to have finally done all 35! That being said, do you think you could revisit a few of your old overviews and update them? The Huns one in particular is quite old and not up to the high standards of your newer videos. If you redo the video could you actually take an in depth look at the Tarkan and talk about its strengths and weaknesses. I think its always been a community favourite UU but they're a bit neglected in game since people just go for Paladins instead. Could you also look at their more accurate trebuchet bonus; see how much of a difference it makes to DPS from missing fewer shots, and how much of a difference it makes to treb wars? And their cavalry archer bonus was reduced again since you did your last video as well. Anyway its just something to consider. Hope you're having a good day!
But definitely keep that shuttered horror at the sound of the Huns civ startup jingle. It is and shall always be the soundtrack of nightmares.
Detail oriented
he did it!
he reviewed all the civs
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS LETS GOOOOOOO
¡Gracias!
Howdy Spirit, nice vid as usual. 🙂
So just to be sure; with Kipchaks doing 0 melee damage with their extra arrows, that means they'll practically do 3 melee damage per extra arrow against rams, right? Edit: since the Cuman feudal tc takes longer to build, how many villagers would it take to build it asap for a tc rush; i've tried this a few times but so far im not sure how much the number of villagers used building the tc affects the total building time. Also i wonder what happens if you delete your starting tc and rebuild it at your enemies base in feudal age, and then - even though it pretty sure is a big waste of ressources - build your 2nd actual feudal tc on your starting position.
Yay, overviews! Teutons next?
idk you were talking about cumans being pocket but i think they could do very well on a flank too. They can pressure hard with archers in feudal without sacrificing too much in terms of eco with the second TC. if they get an early win and can pressure harder they have the option to batter down the wall with rams and get into that juicy enemy eco In the late game they have 2 decently strong cav archer options.
I've had some success with a fast castle capped ram push on arena. It's not extremely strong, but the surprise factor is good when your opponents expect you to feudal boom.
Oh, a nice SoTL video. That's Cuman!
How did you get the team game ranking? I'd be interested in seeing those stats!
Ps great vid!
Hey spirit. Love the content.
Tho, Would you ever consider making such mathy videos for Age of Mythology?
Overall, its a great spice and I'd advise using it liberally.
A lot of civs have been modified quite significantly, do you mind rework those civ overviews?
So you can counter most of their conventional strategies with pikes for the horses and swords for the surprise siege, that's good to know
Need a video with an old grizzled Kipchak talking about “the good old days” before The Nerf
So what happens when you delete your TC in Feudal? Will the replacement also be slower to build? Or the regular speed?
And can you then build 2 at once? If so, will they both be slow, both regular speed, or one fast, one slow?
Would it be fair to say that for some Civs their Kipchak Mercs would be better than Cuman Kipchaks?
Cuman! My favorite Spice!
Love the video! Now when will we see the Lithuanians?
Idk if you'll read this, SotL, but after watching Joerg Sprave's video on the Panjagan and the fact that battle elephants are a thing now, what would be your opinion on the Persians' unique unit being changed to a Panjagan (archer that shoots 5 bolts at once, like a shotgun) from the War Elephant which is hardly used anyway due to its susceptibility to monks, low mobility and high cost, and give them access to battle elephants at the stable? I think it could make the Persians pretty interesting and tbh it doesn't really make sense that their unique unit is an elephant with no rider.
I'm cuuuuuming
GJ Spirit
if you delete your TC in feud and build 2 at the same time, does this mitigate the construction rate? and does this have an actual use?
OP CUMANS
I'll say this time and again "La Hire" is a word but "Spirit of the Law here" is an emotion.
i'm cooming for cuman.
Finally.... It's here... Yo!
Hey Spirit where did you get the lists for top civs and worst civs in 1v1 and team games? Would like to see that!
Not at all related to the Cumans but I have a suggestion for a video if SOTL wants to look at my comment :P (which I doubt).
What about a video on how/when/where you can use your villagers to fight?
Such as assisting a lone spear-man against a 3-team of scout cavalry in Feudal age.
Or what type of units Villagers can defend themselves from and when they should run for the TC
yes finally my favourite civ XD
12:14 That brave wolf
Hell yeah!
How many villagers building the second TC would be ideal ressource-wise in the endgame?
I've seen using 8 is common in the other video, but is using that many more villagers (not collecting ressources) worth the fast build-time? I assume 4 villagers would construct the slow second TC in 1:48 min instead of the 4:30 of a single villager, while 8 push it down to 1:00 min. (Every villager after the first building half as fast.) Is that correct?
48 sec earlier 2x villager output + 48 sec earlier double-bit axe + 4x 1:48 min of a villager not collecting
versus
8x 1 min of a villager not collecting (+ walk-over time ofc course)
4 vil collect 144 res in 1:48 min; 20 vil with double-bit axe collect 24 res more in 48 sec + ~ 2 more villagers minus their 100 food cost
versus
8 vil collect 160 res in 1 min
So clearly, as long as you produce enough ressources for no idle time in villager production, construction with 8 vil is worth it. But how many would be ideal?
I probably made some mistakes here, so feel free to correct them. Would walk-over time significantly change the result?
Wait... You said 3 pierce and 0 melee damage from the arrows. Did something change? I could have sworn I heard 3 melee damage in your last video comparing kipchaks and cavalry archers
at 9:42 you say cumans can produce steppe lancers in half the normal time! Is that really true? Because they train 50% faster is something different, As I know you know that! xD You made a video about it!
If they are really produced 50% faster, they would be produced in 2/3 of the normal time right?
And another question is: Do Kipchak count as cav archers and get affected by this tech, or are just normal ca affected?
btw great video as always!
One of my ancestors was a Crimean tartar - a nation which old name was the Cuman people (before the Mongols invasion 1226 A.D. into their lands). So they should have a stone walls, as they had in Crimea.