Tatars Overview AoE2
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2020
- Analysis of the Tatar bonuses, unique unit/techs, and tech tree.
BONUSES
1:08 Team Bonus: Cavalry Archers +2 LOS
1:54 Villagers gather +50% food from herdables
3:40 Units deal +25% damage from fighting from higher elevation.
Elevation bonus in more detail: • Tatar Hill Bonus
Attacking uphill calculations in more detail: • Is it ever worth it to...
4:50 Thumb ring, Parthian tactics free
UNIQUE UNIT AND TECHS
6:50 Unique Unit: Keshik
Keshik in more detail, especially in various unit matchups: • Keshik
8:30 Unique Unit: Flaming Camel
9:25 Silk armor (light cavalry, steppe lancers, cavalry archers +1 pierce armor)
9:50 Timurid siegecraft (+2 range for trebuchets)
TECH TREE
10:37 Archers A-
11:20 Infantry F
11:50 Cavalry B+
12:30 Siege B+
12:50 Navy B- (C+ early, B late)
13:35 Monks C
13:55 Defences/University B
14:28 Economy B+
14:50 Wrap Up. Thoughts on strategies, maps, strengths, and weaknesses.
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Full intro song: • Spirit of the Law Chan...
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition, with Forgotten Empires, African Kingdoms, Rise the Rajas, and Last Khans expansions - Hry
The monastery lacks faith and theocracy, but has illumination and block printing, might as well be training philosophers instead of monks.
Goddamn
Instead of converting people with monks, they have philosophers, which makes your enemies confused and attack everyone including their allies on sight
I laughed very loud at this
Perhaps rather journalists. In my experience philosophers tend to forget to put the lights on.
Thumb Ring, Parthian Tactics for free? Where can I sign up?
LOL
11
😂
11
11
Historically camels with flaming hay on their backs were sent at elephants to spook them, making the elephants turn and stampede terrified through their own lines, trampling many of their own infantry and other foot troops to death. So while it may be a "meme unit" in game, it is a historically accurate thing. Especially with the bonus against elephants.
The great thing about the tatars and the other lancer civs is that they are great for psychological warfare. They can be used to make your opponent bang their head in anger or even quit the game.
To see how this is done, you gotta train a lancer in castle age and then place it near your opponent's lumbercamp. And then message your opponent:
"The guy standing next to your lumbercamp is my steppe lancer.
I never knew my real lancer."
Okay, I'm embrassed cause I don't get it.. explanation please, my lord.
@@skylible Steppe = step. Steplancer, i.e., adopted lancer.
@@skylible as in step father
Oooooohhhhh.... I kinda get it
Goddamn it I hate you. 11
10:39 Fun Fact: Crossbow/Arbalet is called "Tatar bow" in modern Turkish, despite Tatars doesnt have access to arbalest
I'm imagining a lot of confusion and bug reports if there's a Turkish translation of this game lol
@@directrulefromgamerchair3947 well, today i downloaded the definitive edition, it has turkish translation and its so much confusing :D in turkish there is another word "kundaklı yay" for crossbow and currently crosbowmen is called "arbaletçi" (direct translation from arbalest) and arbalest is called "kundaklı yaycı" which is exactly means crossbowmen. difference between arbalet and crossbow is not known by turks mostly and probably turkish people either playing english version or they didnt noticed because as i said we dont know the difference 11
edit: and i now just did a bug report haha
@@denizumut1 so in Turkish version arbalests are below crossbowmen?
To be fair, in english the Arbalest is just a word for a real heavy crossbow, made with a steel bow and mechanical firing mechanism. It's still a crossbow too.
@@directrulefromgamerchair3947 yes, the archer line order is as follows: "okçu (archer)", "arbaletçi (arbalester)", "kundaklı yaycı (crossbowman)". its even same in obsidian arrow's description
@@denizumut1 The Spanish version had a problem originally. Archer was "Arquero" (correct), Crossbowman was "Ballestero" (also correct)... and Arbalest was "Ballesta" (as in "crossbow"), as if upgrading the crossbowman removed the man from the equation.
That was fixed by the Definitive Edition (now the Arbalest is "Arbalestero"), but now we have both the Knight and the Cavalier with the exact same name ("Caballero").
"Send forth THE FLAMING CAMELS!!!"
Hyah!
@@rajaafullo BOOM!!
Facing Toktamysh's Golden Horde as Tamerlane (Tatar) from higher elevation:
"It's over, Toktamysh! I have the high ground!"
Tatars overview:
1. Boil 'em
2. Mash 'em
3. Stick 'em in a stew
Wot's Tatars, Precious?
I am proud tatar myself. And when they were introduced to this game it really warmed my heart. Best civ for me
G
I'm a viking but prefer calvary civs 🤪
@@icecoldchilipreppers6496 I'm a malay and I prefer cavalry and cav archer civs xD
I am Indian and I weep every time I see Elephant Archers being brought down by swarms of halbs.
Crimean or Kazhan?
In preparation for this overview, 4 years ago I ... Now that's planning in advance :)
Tatars: live on flat steppes
Devs: have a hill bonus!
right but the steppes have many hilly areas cliffs dispersed into plains, the tatars held positions very well, maybe thats why
3:49 Also known as the Kenobi Bonus.... Anakin would hate to play against the Tatars
"It's over archers! I have the high ground!"
@@mrgaudy1954 You understimate my Longbowman!
Sergei Gaylord- Lord of the Gay legion *knowing Britons don’t get thumb ring* “Don’t try it...”
I think he may hate even more to play on Arabia; the terrain is coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere
@@TeTaongaKorora or worse, playing against the Tatars on Arabia
I love the Tatars, for their cavalary archer, finally the overview as I have been waiting
I need a cumans civ overview so I know what I’m doing with them
every time I play them it feels like goths but cavalry
If he wants to dig into the math of the secound Town Center in Feudal (and we all know he will), it is a very difficult thing to do. The pro players figuered "only" one or two strategies out thus far.
Kipchaks are fun
They are indeed technically goth but with Cavalry and stronger siege units
Hera has some good strategy guides for them
How the hell can you give a C for those monks, that's a straight F If I ever saw one.
Yeah they're god awful... I might even say worse than the infantry.
IKR?
No Sanctity meaning Monks don’t get extra +15 HP for their original 30 HP they start off with.
No Redemption meaning Monks can’t convert Seige Units and Buildings.
No Theocracy meaning Monks in groups all have to rest when converting a unit instead of only one.
Those IMHO are the MOST critical techs to research for a Monk. At least Tatars get Two Handed Swordsman unlike the Persians but missing those extra armor upgrades is a drawback unlike the Persians.
@@psiignoramus9486 I feel like those ratings should be switched, at least they have halberdier
I also find their lack of Faith and Heresy... disturbing. Jokes aside, I know they're both expensive, but they can always come in handy towards the late game if the opponent is heavily invested in monks for whatever reason. Then again, Tatars do get Hussars and plenty of ranged options to work with.
I'd like to add that despite Persians having some of the fewest Monastery techs (they only get Fervor and Herbal Medicine in Castle), they at the very least have access to Faith, Theocracy, and Block Printing in Imperial.
Also their halberdier deals the most bonus damage of any civ when fighting downhill. Certainly usable. It should be an underrated C or C-. Monks are unusable apart from relics
As a tatar, I am happy that we finally have some representation in video games.
im tatar (siberian) aswell, finally we get some recognition.
haha same bro, i hope they will add us to AoE4!
Cumans? Bulgarians?
Do you speak Tatar or Russian? Because if you can speak Tatar, you can understand Turkish aswell.
Bruh we are all Turks and doesnit matter if it is Huns, Cumans, Tatars or Ottomans we are in the game with 4 civs
Tatars are my favorite civ, don´t know why I like them so much. Thanks for the spotlight they deserve.
Your ability to pan thru commentary, comedy, and criticism in one breath is astounding. Ty for the pointers on Tars as well!
Man it feels so good hearing the full SOTL intro with the DE upgrade instead of the shortened version. ^_^
I always give a thumbs up to Spirit's videos before watching them, I just have the certainty by now that it's always quality content.
If Flaming camels had the ability to turn enemy elephants like in the campaign or at least scaring away(making the elephant units neutral) would have been fun and a nice nod to their history
Which Campaign?
@@suryaramanandsharma1324 The Tatar's campaign.
Yea, making elephant neutral would double their meme value
Add a status debuff: cav and elephants caught in the blast radius panic for 1 second, unable to move or attack in that time.
@@FuelDropforthewin its already implemented we call it DE unit pathing
FINALLY! thank you so much for these
Back when 'Timurid Siegecraft' was just +1 range to Trebs, I wanted it to become a Team Unique Tech like Berber Kasbah. Would have been nice to have a second Team Bonus due to their weak default TB.
Tatars right now has been alot of fun for me to play as with that long range Treb that no one expected to reach their castle. Plus the cav Archer blob is insanely good for team games. I've led top score multiple times because that castle age boom is so strong
Although I see the consideration of the hill bonus for trebuchets, and its a great one since trebuchets for Tatars have very long range, I can't help but feel that, even without the siege onagers, their onagers and heavy scorpions would be even more dangerous uphill.
Siege Onagers generally deal a normal 60 and Onagers deal 50 melee damage respectively, alongside both having +12 bonus damage against siege. A tatar onager uphill dealing 50% bonus damage would deal over 75 melee damage, whilst the siege onager for normals would be only 72. Granted the Siege Onager has slightly more HP, but I think with the Tatars focusing on being gold-conservative and having a greater emphasis on tactical placement, it fits pretty well and during certain circumstances can make the Onager quite dangerous; at the same time, it makes a Tatar Onager even more dangerous with its damage output and AoE able to deal with incoming enemy units.
To make a comparison, a Champion generally has around 70 Hp; Hussars have 75 Hp; although it generally is overkill against certain units such as Calvary Archers and Eagle Warriors, which both have 60 after max upgrades, the Onager's splash damage doesn't always deal the same damage that are caught by the blast radius; the higher damage output makes sure that certain units that may have otherwise survived an Onager hit, stay dead. Having a placement of two or three Tatar Onagers uphill can make all the difference of making Eagle Warriors, who are a counter for the majority of the Tatar's primary arsenal, melt.
This is even more so with the Heavy Scorpion; especially since Scorpions are generally good chokepoint units due to their function, the 16 pierce damage would be changed to 24 uphill, due to the 50% hill bonus damage. The only other unit that can beat that uphill is the chinese HS, but even then the rocketry upgrade is a costly upgrade, whilst the Tatar hill bonus is free.
The heavy scorpion and onager for the Tatar feels like something that can make sure that the Tatar has a greater emphasis in defensive positioning with key siege units, and make it so that when situations become diffiult to Tatar and need to retreat or move to a better position, they have a greater emphasis on using it. Granted its situational, and requires some RNG luck with hill generation, but the 25% additional hill bonus damage for siege units are of a greater output that standard units due to their high yield of damage they do.
A tatar player making use of trebuchets defended by onagers and/or heavy scorpions along with some standard units would make a difficult combination to penetrate.
The “kenobi bonus” had me😂
Tatars know exactly how many straws would break the camel's back.
I think that one small thing you missed at defenses is that Tatars have a huge advantage at defending castles and bombard towers thanks to their trebuchets
Spirit of the Law, if you don't mind, I would like to see a Genghis Khan campaign vs. history. Of course, only if you want.
So happy to see Civ Overview back! Please do more when you have the time, can't get enough of them.
I recently viewed a video on war elephants and apparently flaming camels have been used against them irl: they did not in fact explode, they would just run around on fire, freaking out and screaming during their drawn out and horrifying death, all of this while smelling horribly of burnt fur and meat.
This would be kinda bad for human soldiers morale, but for a war Elephant it would have been absolutely terrifying and the poor beast had a fair chance to freak out and start trashing around, possibly trampling it's own army.
There you have it. That's the real history of this funny unit :)
Pigs were also a good counter to elephant charges. Their high-pitched squealing would terrify elephants. Set the pigs on fire and the smell would make it even more intimidating.
All the details you put in the description is really nice. You do excellent work keep it up!
The last time I was this early Flaming Camels weren't a meme.
Anyone know what the intro music is called?
Edit: looks like it a piece of original SoL music, neat!
He puts a link to the full version in video descriptions.
I have been waiting for this video for a long time!!!! thanks!!!!!
Keep this intro forever please. It's literally the best!
Also known as the Kenobi bonus. Nailed it :D
Flaming Camel: only exist for the meme.
SotL: keeping his voice serious when saying they can be used if you hit 4 elephants.
There is something chill about this channel. I haven't played AoE 2 in 15 years but I watch these vids anyway
I cant seem to figure them out but this video really help going forward. Lovely SOTL
the way I look at their siege unique tech is that it allows the units defending the trebs to stand even farther away from castles, and makes it take enemy units even longer to actually reach the trebs, making them easier to take out since they have that much farther to walk if your opponent is really trying to focus them down
You have no idea how much you just brightened my day.
Yay, long awaited overview! Thanks Spirit!
Thanks a lot SOTL ! Your content is, as always : refreshing, intelligent and entertaining !
Excelent video to understand that they have a nice early but a bad late.
14:01 Doesn't the Kenobi bonus only affect units? In that case the castles won't benefit from the bonus
No, buildings too. More hp, and more attack
@@agustinrafaelle5396 Are we talking about the same bonus? The Kenobi/+25% damage from upill bonus for Tatars doesn't give HP even to units, and the bonus specifically says 'units.' This would suggest that buildings aren't affected unless it's another one of AoE's badly worded bonuses
@@TeTaongaKorora there is the tatar's hill bonus, and besides that you have game hill bonus, that aplies to all civs
@@TeTaongaKorora but yes it only says units... You are rigth
@@agustinrafaelle5396 Seeing as this is a Tatar overview and not an "all civs" overview, the general hill bonus is moot. Everyone's castles benefit from it exactly the same so only the additional Tatar bonus or lack of bonus matters for this
This channel is quickly becoming one of my favorites. And it's so nice to watch the community of an old game I love slowly grow :D
Hey Spirit. Great video as always! I have two questions though: first, wouldn't it be better to make the case as to when to use Steppe Lancers vs Keshiks, instead of Knights vs Keshiks? Having played as Tatars quite a bit I know I'm never going to use Cavaliers because Keshiks seem to be better in every way since they cost a lot less gold and are fantastic for soaking up damage with their decent health and armour. Since Steppe Lancers and Keshiks are more comparable in price and Tatars do get the +1 pierce armour on their SLs, is there ever a time to use SLs over Keshiks? Like would SLs be better than Keshiks at fighting the Goth infantry spam or Eagle Warriors, for example?
My second question is how much of a difference does that +1p armour actually make to their Cavalry Archers? How much better do Tatar Cavalry Archers perform vs other Cavalry Archers, Arbalests, and Skirmishers? Maybe you could do a short follow up video where you look at this? Maybe one day you could even redo your top 5 Cavalry Archer video where you now also factor in Tatar cavalry archers and the Cuman Kipchaks? Hope you're having a great day!
These are interesting questions!
I can only attest Tatar's cav archers still lost to Turks, I have no idea about the rest
Steppe lancers are available sooner than Keshiks since you can make them the instant you hit castle age. SLs are better than knights at fighting off the spear line so they can make an early castle cav raid last longer and cause more damage. You can either transition into Keshiks once you have a castle up, or you can keep them as part of your mounted army, maybe as protection for the cav archers. That leaves your Keshiks free to go on the offensive. Haven’t played Tatars much but that’s how I use steppe lancers normally
You can also try to mix them, let Keshiks in the front to soak the damage and SL will bonk from behind
My own experience with Tatar - Turk's HCA still reign supreme. But Tatar HCA beats Mongol's HCA due to fully upgraded where Mongol's lacks armour. Castle age CA vs Mongol's CA is lots of back and forth. I think Tatar is slightly at a disadvantage since they don't get their bonus until you get a Castle, where as Mongol's will have theirs once they get their thumb ring. Don't know about vs against Mangudai though but I imagine you lose 1v1 but OK for cost effective trade. Also, Tatar is one of the best for rush CA in early castle age due to free thumb ring. It still fire slower than Mongol's CA, but instead have much higher accuracy, meaning if you go head to head vs other CAs, try to fight at longer range. All you need is then research arrow upgrade and get ballistic. Tatar's HCA can trade nicely with standard civ's Arbalests (1v1, but not cost effective), but I'll still avoid Skirmishers and let Light Cav or SL deal with them. While Light Cav and SL deal with Skirms and Heavy Cavs, HCAs snipe enemy's camels or pikes with your CAs. I don't know how well Kipchaks do against all the HCAs so can't comment. Never used them.
Keshik helps fight long term with the gold generation. Building them as soon as you have castle and have excess resources is great. But SL is the one that will hold the front line for you due to the +1 range. While CAs soften up armies at range, SL tank and deal the last damage to kill units if they get too close to your CAs. Knights are only used if your enemy gone a bit heavy on Feudal archer/skirm push and you need a few knights to kill those pesky archers/skirms and then turn the table and raid with them until you get your CAs and Light Cav counts up. You use knights because much higher hp. I would get Cavalier if I got a number of knights already when fighting against Mongol's Hussar/HCA mix as that combination struggles against Heavy Cav. If I don't I think Keshik is better to fight against Mongol's mix. Tatar SL vs Mongol's SL is much like Tatar's CA vs Turk's CA - you'll loose.
Goth spam or Eagle warriors your only hope is get Hand Canonneers, since Tatar gets them. With all your gold spent on HC you can only make Hussar for meatshield. Vs goth you should be raiding as much as possible to avoid letting them get their spam. I think Tatar is the only one of the 5 CA civ that gets HC (Magyar, Mongols, Cuman nor Huns get them). So actually Tatar is much better at dealing with those civs. This is the same vs Malians as well, as CA don't deal a lot of damage vs Malian's infantry either. I find that it's actually better you drop CA and switch to HC if you see enemy go Huskarls, eagle warrior or Malians infantry, only make a handful for raiding only.
"Cavalry, archer, and cavalry archer all in one."
The archer part is something which Mongols and Huns can't boast of. The Cavalry part is something which Portuguese, Turks and Vietnamese cannot boast of.
I have never played AoE in any form, yet here I am watching videos on AoE2.
Nice content.
Taters review, by Ramsay:
"IT'S FOOKIN RAW YOU HORSE ARCHER"
Ok fascist
@@dontspikemydrink9382 you mean based
@@SIGNOR-G whateverbthat means
Tatar army comp of Kishek, cav archers and steppe lancers is a thing of beauty.
Is that actually good though? Steppes are so expensive for their low hp is gross
A review! My day just became better =D
Favourite civ! Had been waiting for this overview!
I like the look of their buildings that and their campaign is really fun
Sorry I don't have Tatars pun, instead I have this
*"Why couldn’t the Mexican archer use his bow?"*
*_"He didn’t habanero."_*
that one is hard to understand when you know a latin language and read the word properly. but i got it.
@@GraveUypo I didn't get it...
Not even with your comment to help
Caio Prado mate, habanero-have an arrow😂
Habanero = have an arrow
@@Tungdilxy oh god, this is horrible...
I fucking love it
Pretty good. Looking forward to their AOE2 vs history video in the near future
Idea for a follow-up of the elevation bonus video:
If I am on the lower ground and I want to take the engagement no matter what, is it better to stay still but start firing right away or to send my troops up the hill while taking fire until I am on the same level as my opponent?
love your videos..
you always do great work...
nice keep the spirit up
Great analysis!
Finally a new SOTL civ overview. The second half of 2020 is getting better!
I don’t even play AOE but I’ve watched all of your videos. Keep up the good work.
Best sauce of info about the tartars
i feel the newer civs since African Kingdoms haven't reach the level of the Conquerors and, somewhat, HD civs, probably because the best bonuses (gather rates, unit discounts, hp boost on melee units...) have already been given to those older civs, and the newer ones often have situational bonuses
What about Cuman and their feudal age town center?
@@T2266 once again it feels too situational, once you're in castle age, you can't use that bonus anymore, you actively have to make use of that bonus, while Celts, Turks, Mayans will keep using their bonus for the rest of the game
That means they are learning, Malians and Ethiopians first release was ridiculous.
"Kenobi bonus": instantly killed me!
Finally, I get to see a Recent Intro...
Each of your new civ overwievs is better than the last one. I think you should do a new overview of the civs you did 3/4 years ago. The updates make some of them totally different aswell.
"What are you doing,step-Lancer??"
Now that you mention it the hill bonus is absolutely meant for treb wars since you want to place your castles on hills anyways and they even get +2 range from their unique tech, so its far more useful as a siege bonus.
I like how the Definitive Edition brought more attention to the Central Asian steppe nomads!
YES ! You made my day, SotL !!!
First like and comment 😉
Great analysis as usual, Spirit! We need more of these updated civ overviews. This one was very well done!
Side note - when are you facing off with T90 Official?
You have bested me, sir. i hand my "first" comment crown to you. For now.
Yes please! SOTL vs T90
11 hours ago??????? The vid came out 4 mins ago.
@@unbakedsky4627 it's bug. Correct is eleven minutes
@@nevem526 it's not a bug, it's Patreon early access :)
I love the intros!
Tatar is my favorite of the new civs, since I do love me some good cavalry archer
3:51 HE FINALLY ACKNOWLEDGE THE KENOBI WAY!
No
I prefer the Cumans for their extra town center, awesome feudal rush with rams and I really liked their exclusive unit as I was already used to micro mangudai, conquistadors and cavalry archers as the huns, my favorite civ decades ago.
Their free techs are quite striking for me. Loved the architecture too.
_clicks video_
_ctrl+f "sauce"_
_80's computer kid thumbs up_
Pretty nice civ to play with free upgrades for Horse Archers and beautiful unique unit that gives some extra gold. Sounds good for me.
This is fantastic
You know I just noticed that even the "Goth Game Plan" in the intro is also HD Definitive.
They now have a another civ bonus - Every new Town Centre that is built, 2 sheep are spawned. This starts in the Castle Age. Thoughts?
I waited so long for this
Wait there's Tatars in the game?
Always have been.
In the definitive edition.
They're in Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition. They come with the Khans expansion which is free with DE, but isn't available at all for the HD (2013 version). Bulgarians, Cumans, Lithuanians, and Tatars are the newest civs.
Don't worry man, I got your joke.
@@Progeusz I didnt. Can you explain his joke to me?
Any Minor World That Breaks Apart it’s the astronaut with gun “always has been” meme.
Finally you are at my favorite team!
I predicted this to be the next overview :)
You had me at 19-range Trebuchets.
I like to go scouts and xbows harass in feudal. Defend till castle.
Once I hit castle, I switch to CA and Steppes/Camels (depending if they go spears or knights) and seige with some keshik.
I think it’s important to mention that once you hit castle, you won’t need scouts and Xbows anymore. You basically just all in there at mines and farms till your core army gets built up.
Finally a Civ Review! Thanks
I am so waiting for Sotl's civ reviews that I want a new aoe2 game just for him to do more of them
Hope we can see some old civ review redo in the future.
Their newest bonus, spawning 2 free sheep every time a TC is built, is fantastic for castle boom. Also, Silk Armor now gives +1/+1 armor to hussar, steppe lancer, and cav archers, making a bit tankier now. Tatar fully upgrade heavy cav archers get 6 melee armor!
I got a defense for the bomb camel thingy tho: it kills enemy cavalry lines very fast. This could help you punch a hole in the enemy line so quickly you catch him off guard. Perhaps he was using cavalry to cover his archers from being swarmed by your own cavalry. Or perhaps all he had left to defend his town center was cavalry. Either case, the camels wipe them out almost instantly, not giving the opposing player enough time to produce more units to stop your advance.
Hey Spirit, would be interesting analysing if its worth to heal units in the TC, or the self healing ones, or the having 5 monk in the back of your line healing!
thanks for the great content!
You Sir, changed your channel logo. The video was in recommendation yesterday and I thought it could be a copy channel. Bro always looking forward to your videos.
5:11 "In preparation for this video, four years ago..."
That's some dedication, doing research for videos of civilizations that didn’t even exist in the game yet.
I love ur intro ^^
Does the team bonus apply to mangudai, arambai, conquistadors and genitours as well?
CZcams ads: "Their unique unit is actually a cavalry ARBY'S ROAST BEEF SANDWICH"
....
what?
@@mackycabangon8945 I edited it so it makes more sense XD
I'm watching this just cuz I want lel. I play HD. But it's still very interesting, you analyze it all so that it can be used in a real game situation (which I will be never in xD).
Im curious, why do you still play HD?
Spirit of the law uploaded an overview video of a game civilization. Me and my rice : our meal will be historic.