@@user-rl5nd3ys8p Or the best? He did throw his camera down to come save our lives, which he quite literally did, instead of video taping our deaths. So I’d say maybe you should reevaluate your view point.
That’s messed up, I know the guy filming he didn’t think about filming when they started going off the runway he thought about helping them not videoing.
I flew the Beech 18, which is very similar to this Lockheed 12, for 5 years and over 3,000 hours. I was a captain, company check airman, and flight instructor on the Beech 18 and our SOP was to imediately raise the flaps on touchdown and to keep the tail up for as long as possible. Both of these were done to prevent the flaps and wing from blocking airflow to the rudders which would render them ineffective. I notice that this pilot had full right rudder, but the plane continued to turn left. Why no right brake???? .
From the video it looks like the PIC did what you said. I saw the flaps down. I saw the tail flying for a while after landing. In his Sunday videos, Dan said he was not the PIC, that the tail wheel was locked on takeoff (with video showing the control knob), and that both brakes were solid on the ground, but that he didn’t check them in the air before landing.
@@HoosierPilotDan reported that the cameraman was the first person to get to the plane after the crash, so I think he had something more important to do. Not sure why he didn’t move immediately, but maybe he was calling 911?
looks like the camera dude ran for his life, the opposite direction. We just got to see a timid landing that may have required a longer runway. Loose tail wheel did not help. Guessing here.
I've flown in one and had a ground loop due to a failure in the tail wheel lock system. Luckily, it was a big field and no other damage other than the pilot's pants.
I crashed a Grumman Tiger because of a brake failure. It has a castering front wheel and I came down on the brakes hard for a hold line. The right brake spit the puck out from being too far worn, pulled left about like this plane did and I locked the left one to try to avoid a sign and ground loop it. It turned out okay with a broken runway light and a dinged prop. It's not a good feeling when you lose control, and you see it unfold in front of you.
There are pics of the A&P dude working on the right landing gear of this plane, he has grease all over his bare hands, you can see grease on the brake rotor with what appears to be hand prints. I am guessing, not an expert here, that GREASE and BRAKES does not go well together....
@@dohabandit Even when doing brake jobs on our cars I always wipe the rotors down with alcohol or brake cleaner to get rid of greasy paw prints. Even then I test them out on the road in front of the house before venturing out.
The Lockheed 12 probably did not have a locking tailwheel as did the Beech 18 and DC-3. You can see the tailwheel swiveling and almost doing a 360, so no lock on it.
Apparently ,according to the experts on this plane the tail wheel doesn’t need to locked. I’m just repeating what multiple experienced pilots of this plane have said.
The video shows the instant the airplane went out of control. What additional useful information would have been gotten by seeing the plane hit the tree?
DC3 pilot here. You don’t need the tail wheel locked, in low wind conditions (although it helps if it is). It swerved opposite to rudder inputs (I think I see right rudder applied), but that should all be controllable with right brake inputs. But opposite brake has to be applied very quickly, or you go gardening. The old adage with the DC3 - is that the landing has not finished, until the park brake is applied. R
If the tail wheel was locked and the cause of the turn was unequal braking would the tail wheel (locked) have caused a skid? Would a skid from the rear cause a narrower or a sharper turn? Would a skid from the rear increase the chance of the plane flipping?
A cable-controlled pin locks the tailwheel. It is supposed to be applied after taxiing straight for a few feet to ensure the tailwheel is aligned with the fuselage. But is possible (and easy) to lock the pin down while the wheel is not aligned, effectively leaving the tailwheel unlocked.
There is a plate attached to the tailwheel just above the tire and swivel mechanism. This plate has a hole in it for a pin to drop down into it and lock the tailweel in the trail position. The dropping and raising of the pin (locking and unlocking the tailwheel) is controlled by a lever in the cockpit. The hole and pin have to line up in order for the pin to drop down into the the hole and lock the tailwheel. We would lock the tailwheel for straight ahead taxi, takeoffs and landings, but unlock it when we needed to make a turn during taxi. I don't think the Lockheed 12 had a locking tailwheel. I have flown the Lockheed 10A and it didn't have one. Gryder should have raised the flaps imediately upon touchdown, and he should have applied forward elevator to keep the tail up for as long as possible to allow unimpeded airflow to the rudders. He did apply full right rudder, but the airflow to them was blocked so they did not respond to stop the left turn.
OK - actual Lockheed 12 mechanic here. The tailwheel lock is the horizontal guillotine type lock from the aft end not the vertical pin type lock. And, yeah, you lock before takeoff roll and unlock for runway turnoff after landing. Without the lock ON a takeoff would be much easier than a landing but there's no good reason to leave it unlocked in the first place.
Interesting that he had camera equipment on board and his intent was to show how important following the checklist is after the prior Electra crash where flaps were not retracted. He supposedly didnt have the cameras running during the flight. So, I find it amazing that he wanted to show the importance of checklists and someone forgot to lock the wheel which is on the list prior to landingl. All on board were incredibly lucky. I understand the investigation is just starting and something else may come to the surface but my gut says they didn't follow the checklist.
I’m not going to speculate as to the “probable cause” that would be irresponsible. However the fact that the cameras were rolling during the landing of flight that was supposed to show the use of check list seems odd.
Looks like somebody put a heavy foot on that left rudder....(brake ) ...loose tail wheel ? needed a longer runway maybe ? many possible options for the crash in the trees. The NTSB will figure it out.
Might be a good idea for all of you experts to get a lot more information before determining the cause. The first thing they teach a Safety Investigator is to not pre-judge an incident. The second thing taught is to remember that bystander testimony is generally not very accurate. Let this play out to find actual cause.
Oh look he crashed yet again. What will he blame the cause on this time? Soon enough GA insurance policies will have a no DH as pilot clauses at this rate
Probable cause: Failure to use tailwheel lock and lack of currency of PIC on type (6 months since last flown) therefore slow to react to swing and also poor technique with lowering the tail too soon. Airfield is marginal for this aircraft. PIC should have transitioned to a larger airfield and done several landings there before attempting a landing back at this marginal field.
Dan Gryder takes this flight to make a video about the importance of check lists. Then goes ahead and forgets to follow the landing check list and lock the tailwheel for landing. Nice one Dan. Cant wait for Gryder's word salad excuse.
The tailwheel isn't locked before landing; it's locked before takeoff. Watching prior videos of Glenn flying this plane it's clear he never uses a checklist. It's also clear that while he puts the tailwheel lock control to the correct position, he fails to verify that the lock is actually engaged. Was he not taught the correct procedure? Not understand how it works?
@@ellischernoff8603 Just to clarify for my education. The tailwheel is locked for takeoff by taxing straight and then moving the floor mounted lever to the locked position. After takeoff it is left in that position for the duration of the flight but verified to be in the correct position (locked) before landing. It is only unlocked when at a slow taxi speed. Correct? I have to say the wheel landing looked really good, but it went to hell once the tail wheel touched and wobbled.
Locking the tailwheel would not be on the landing checklist as it should have been locked for takeoff. It would have been on the takeoff checklist, so maybe he missed it there. But the Lockheed 12 may not have had a locking tailwheel like the DC-3 and Beech 18.
Thanks for letting us know what happened. I'm glad you visited the crash and pulled the wreckage apart and verified the lever was not in the locked position. A lot of other people on here jumping to conclusions but you brought the truth 🙌
Bottom line another historical plane bites the dust. These are national historical treasures. Turn the keys over to the govt and we can preserve them in Tucson.
Dan Gryder, the biggest p.o.s. in aviation was involved in this one as well. He has crashes many other peoples planes and dont forget about getting fired from a major airline after trying to flee from airport police and shutting that airport down for nearly an hour. Yeah, real good guy to take advice from in aviation.
![The last flying Lockheed Super Constellation: engine start, flaming takeoff and landing. [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Rc3pUpY7GpM/mqdefault.jpg)
The world's worst camera operator.
@@user-rl5nd3ys8p Or the best? He did throw his camera down to come save our lives, which he quite literally did, instead of video taping our deaths. So I’d say maybe you should reevaluate your view point.
@@nizexlizzy I apologize and extend my gratitude for Your efforts. 👍🇦🇺
Talk about a missed video opportunity.
Moment of truth: Points camera at the grass.
the camera man never dies😂❤
That’s messed up, I know the guy filming he didn’t think about filming when they started going off the runway he thought about helping them not videoing.
@@jpilot12 He would have helped the investigation by recording the event rather than the grass.
You only had the one job
Nice landing. Tailwheel unlocked. I'm guessing the aircraft ground looped while the photographer was recording the unmown grass.
Oh look! Weeds! Nice job camera person.
Clickbait, bs
Clickbait. Don't turn the camera away. If I wanna see an aircraft landing I have videos galore...
Whoopee!
You can see in the video, the tailwheel was not locked.
I flew the Beech 18, which is very similar to this Lockheed 12, for 5 years and over 3,000 hours. I was a captain, company check airman, and flight instructor on the Beech 18 and our SOP was to imediately raise the flaps on touchdown and to keep the tail up for as long as possible. Both of these were done to prevent the flaps and wing from blocking airflow to the rudders which would render them ineffective. I notice that this pilot had full right rudder, but the plane continued to turn left. Why no right brake???? .
The one that was just removed as part of maintenance...
Thanks for your excellent comment on the Beech 18, I was lucky to fly in one several times in the right seat as a passenger, one of my best memories.
no fluid is my guess
From the video it looks like the PIC did what you said. I saw the flaps down. I saw the tail flying for a while after landing.
In his Sunday videos, Dan said he was not the PIC, that the tail wheel was locked on takeoff (with video showing the control knob), and that both brakes were solid on the ground, but that he didn’t check them in the air before landing.
broken maybe ? How did you know he had full right rudder ? maybe the tail wheel was not locked ?
All I saw was the landing. Not of the accident.
Yes. The camera man is as bad at filming as Dan is at accident investigations.
The first part is true @@HoosierPilot
@@HoosierPilotDan reported that the cameraman was the first person to get to the plane after the crash, so I think he had something more important to do. Not sure why he didn’t move immediately, but maybe he was calling 911?
looks like the camera dude ran for his life, the opposite direction. We just got to see a timid landing that may have required a longer runway. Loose tail wheel did not help. Guessing here.
I've flown in one and had a ground loop due to a failure in the tail wheel lock system. Luckily, it was a big field and no other damage other than the pilot's pants.
I crashed a Grumman Tiger because of a brake failure. It has a castering front wheel and I came down on the brakes hard for a hold line. The right brake spit the puck out from being too far worn, pulled left about like this plane did and I locked the left one to try to avoid a sign and ground loop it. It turned out okay with a broken runway light and a dinged prop. It's not a good feeling when you lose control, and you see it unfold in front of you.
actually they hit many trees and a broken leg for Dan was the lightest injury. The other guys are still in the hospital.
The videographer is like “There is nothing to see here.”
it's almost like DG's camera person was trained to point the camera at the ground as soon as they realised that there was going to be a problem.
Was the owner Pilots son...
@@ecossearthur not onboard
Looks like a right brake failure - and the right side landing gear just went thru maintenance. The tail wheel wasn't the issue.
Agree
There are pics of the A&P dude working on the right landing gear of this plane, he has grease all over his bare hands, you can see grease on the brake rotor with what appears to be hand prints. I am guessing, not an expert here, that GREASE and BRAKES does not go well together....
that makes sense. Blame the mechanic. Another screw up from the sweaty dudes.....who rush to get a job done, while slipping on the "quality".
@@dohabandit Even when doing brake jobs on our cars I always wipe the rotors down with alcohol or brake cleaner to get rid of greasy paw prints. Even then I test them out on the road in front of the house before venturing out.
The tailwheel wasnt locked😮
Agree! It can be seen at about the 12 second mark of this video. Was that the cause or simply a factor?
The Lockheed 12 probably did not have a locking tailwheel as did the Beech 18 and DC-3. You can see the tailwheel swiveling and almost doing a 360, so no lock on it.
Locking. Locked for takeoff? Why unlock in flight? So... Lock mechanism broke?
Brake MX- was the right brake able to aid in centerline control?
Apparently ,according to the experts on this plane the tail wheel doesn’t need to locked. I’m just repeating what multiple experienced pilots of this plane have said.
Taxi and TO was uneventful....
Camera man sensed a crash was imminent, so spared any sensitive viewers from the horror 😂😂
The camera-person was keeping within DEI Limitations. Lol.
CZcams censored it.
He thought they came after him.....is my guess.
The video shows the instant the airplane went out of control. What additional useful information would have been gotten by seeing the plane hit the tree?
Great camera work. Was there a reason ya didn't film the accident? Anyway, I'm happy they're OK.
This was not my handy work.
His father was the pilot...
Dan is home with a bad break in a leg and the other two are still in the hospital. That's what he said on his video.
DC3 pilot here.
You don’t need the tail wheel locked, in low wind conditions (although it helps if it is).
It swerved opposite to rudder inputs (I think I see right rudder applied), but that should all be controllable with right brake inputs.
But opposite brake has to be applied very quickly, or you go gardening.
The old adage with the DC3 - is that the landing has not finished, until the park brake is applied.
R
But, alas, it wasn't a DC-3...
Is it time to really retire these old planes ? why the struggle ? just junkyard for them.
Looks like the tail wheel spun around like a top at touch down!
Yep, it's very easy to see when watched with HD zoom stabilization. That unlocked tailwheel was, at least, a contributing factor.
Thank goodness this accident wasn’t recorded
If the tail wheel was locked and the cause of the turn was unequal braking would the tail wheel (locked) have caused a skid? Would a skid from the rear cause a narrower or a sharper turn? Would a skid from the rear increase the chance of the plane flipping?
It looked like he was making a 180 to the left.....on the runway......trying to turn around ? He went to the trees, by the runway. Missed a building.
How does the locking mechanism work ? Meaning could it be unlocked till it swings around and centers ? I have no clue just wondering
It's supposed to be locked before landing by the checklist and not freed until the taxying phase.
A cable-controlled pin locks the tailwheel. It is supposed to be applied after taxiing straight for a few feet to ensure the tailwheel is aligned with the fuselage. But is possible (and easy) to lock the pin down while the wheel is not aligned, effectively leaving the tailwheel unlocked.
There is a plate attached to the tailwheel just above the tire and swivel mechanism. This plate has a hole in it for a pin to drop down into it and lock the tailweel in the trail position. The dropping and raising of the pin (locking and unlocking the tailwheel) is controlled by a lever in the cockpit. The hole and pin have to line up in order for the pin to drop down into the the hole and lock the tailwheel. We would lock the tailwheel for straight ahead taxi, takeoffs and landings, but unlock it when we needed to make a turn during taxi. I don't think the Lockheed 12 had a locking tailwheel. I have flown the Lockheed 10A and it didn't have one. Gryder should have raised the flaps imediately upon touchdown, and he should have applied forward elevator to keep the tail up for as long as possible to allow unimpeded airflow to the rudders. He did apply full right rudder, but the airflow to them was blocked so they did not respond to stop the left turn.
OK - actual Lockheed 12 mechanic here. The tailwheel lock is the horizontal guillotine type lock from the aft end not the vertical pin type lock. And, yeah, you lock before takeoff roll and unlock for runway turnoff after landing. Without the lock ON a takeoff would be much easier than a landing but there's no good reason to leave it unlocked in the first place.
Checklist for photographer: 1: Film landing
2: Continue film plane turning.
3: Film turf at your feet.
His father was the pilot...
I bet his father was like "Damn! You missed the most important part!"
Whoops missed the important part
For the record I didn’t film this.
Interesting that he had camera equipment on board and his intent was to show how important following the checklist is after the prior Electra crash where flaps were not retracted. He supposedly didnt have the cameras running during the flight. So, I find it amazing that he wanted to show the importance of checklists and someone forgot to lock the wheel which is on the list prior to landingl. All on board were incredibly lucky. I understand the investigation is just starting and something else may come to the surface but my gut says they didn't follow the checklist.
I’m not going to speculate as to the “probable cause” that would be irresponsible. However the fact that the cameras were rolling during the landing of flight that was supposed to show the use of check list seems odd.
How many crashes has Dan been in?🤷🏻♂️
Multiple.
@@HoosierPilot All of them
Multiple isn’t a number when you’re trying to discredit someone.
@@user-ld6tn4er9pI would say so.
@@thereissomecoolstuff True, multiple isn't a number, its a fact.
Perfect timing to not get the incident.
Checklist
Dan's recap on the accident, maybe there was a brake failure, maybe there wasn't, maybe there was a tailwheel lock failure, maybe there wasn't
Gotta luv the way these videos lose it at the critical moment!🤮
Yeah it’s really disappointing for the build up to have no money shot. 😞
@@HoosierPilotyou want the money shot?
Understand that 3 were aboard, all survived but broken bones and airlifted. Plane had severe damage.
Great camera work dude Why post it !!!!????
Did the cameraman have a seizure or something?
Beautiful airplane, I wonder what happened?
Obsolete airplane. Why are people still flying them ?
Exceptional camera work
They call that the money shot, only worth a nickel
The camera guy freaked out, thinking the plane was coming after him.......
@@linanicolia1363 the camera person realized they were about to have a major mishap, is more like it. And probably ran over to help.
Looks like somebody put a heavy foot on that left rudder....(brake ) ...loose tail wheel ? needed a longer runway maybe ? many possible options for the crash in the trees. The NTSB will figure it out.
Was there another camera?, since this one......well......
Might be a good idea for all of you experts to get a lot more information before determining the cause. The first thing they teach a Safety Investigator is to not pre-judge an incident. The second thing taught is to remember that bystander testimony is generally not very accurate. Let this play out to find actual cause.
I 100% agree with this. Dan should follow this advice.
fantastic filming abilities ...
Awesome camera work!
Oh look he crashed yet again.
What will he blame the cause on this time?
Soon enough GA insurance policies will have a no DH as pilot clauses at this rate
Why the hell do people "filming" always drop the camera when something happens ???? If you don't know how to film then don't !
Wowza
Who the f*** can't hold a goddamn camera!!!
He got afraid the plane was coming after him. He ran and I think he dropped the camera.
Doesn't that plane have differential breaking?
I’m not sure.
Absolutely it does but Gryder wasn't using it.
@@MrSuzuki1187how do you know?
Yes. Grass is notoriously traction challenged.
Not if the right brake has failed...
And the camera guy had only 1-job…🙄
Nice cam work
Amen
Nice camera-work... 🙄
Probable cause: Failure to use tailwheel lock and lack of currency of PIC on type (6 months since last flown) therefore slow to react to swing and also poor technique with lowering the tail too soon. Airfield is marginal for this aircraft. PIC should have transitioned to a larger airfield and done several landings there before attempting a landing back at this marginal field.
No.
@@coldsamon Yes.
@@andymckee53No. It was the break line. Do some research.
@coldsamon that was quick for the NTSB to give a preliminary report.
@@HoosierPilot Owner Pilot called it.
Maybe...Right brake failed, left still worked...Then it failed. Didnt they hit the tree without slowing down with help fromANY brakes?
CZcams, take down this video!!! Fing click bait!!!
FAIL!!! I should sue you for stealing my time and ticking me off!
Unlocked wheel wasn't the cause. Sorry to say to all the experts here
it will be determined by the NTSB.
Sack the camera person...
Brilliant!! Everybody films their feet in the last moments.😂😂
Worst cameraman in history. Thanks.
Nice filming why even bother posting
Camera
No Comment!!
Nothing to see here don’t waste your time
he should not be allowed to post Clickbait!! .if you can not hoid camera on action DO NOT POST!! this bull sh**
Dan Gryder takes this flight to make a video about the importance of check lists. Then goes ahead and forgets to follow the landing check list and lock the tailwheel for landing.
Nice one Dan. Cant wait for Gryder's word salad excuse.
The tailwheel isn't locked before landing; it's locked before takeoff. Watching prior videos of Glenn flying this plane it's clear he never uses a checklist. It's also clear that while he puts the tailwheel lock control to the correct position, he fails to verify that the lock is actually engaged. Was he not taught the correct procedure? Not understand how it works?
@@ellischernoff8603 Just to clarify for my education. The tailwheel is locked for takeoff by taxing straight and then moving the floor mounted lever to the locked position. After takeoff it is left in that position for the duration of the flight but verified to be in the correct position (locked) before landing. It is only unlocked when at a slow taxi speed. Correct? I have to say the wheel landing looked really good, but it went to hell once the tail wheel touched and wobbled.
Locking the tailwheel would not be on the landing checklist as it should have been locked for takeoff. It would have been on the takeoff checklist, so maybe he missed it there. But the Lockheed 12 may not have had a locking tailwheel like the DC-3 and Beech 18.
Thanks for letting us know what happened. I'm glad you visited the crash and pulled the wreckage apart and verified the lever was not in the locked position. A lot of other people on here jumping to conclusions but you brought the truth 🙌
@@MrSuzuki1187 I'm pretty sure the Lockheed 12 had a locking tail wheel.
the tailwheel was or got unlocked :/
tailwheel unlocked on a Lockheed Electra = bad ending.
No.
They say the camera man never dies but there are times when they should 🤦
Useless video.
Missed opportunity. Fail.
Camera man is 🤡🤦♂️
What s waste of 23 seconds
Just like my sex life... absolute failure..
Checklists matter...
PILOT ERROR, TAIL WHEEL UNLOCKED!
No.
LOOK AT ME, I'M A JUAN DRONE
Nothing but a bunch of conjecture and Juan drones in here.
“Grynder” sure likes to be brutal on his comments. He received a slander lawsuit last year for doing his “Banjo Boy” crash investigation.
@@samsharp8539Look...Its president of the Millys.
Filmed with a bake potato
everything was fine, the noise was the cameraman falling down metal stairs.......
Bottom line another historical plane bites the dust. These are national historical treasures. Turn the keys over to the govt and we can preserve them in Tucson.
government ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
tailwheel not locked. pilot error. dan is a dolt.
Dan Gryder, the biggest p.o.s. in aviation was involved in this one as well. He has crashes many other peoples planes and dont forget about getting fired from a major airline after trying to flee from airport police and shutting that airport down for nearly an hour. Yeah, real good guy to take advice from in aviation.
Why was he trying to flee ?