Let's put an End to this....Who REALLY Won? (Alexander Volkanovski vs Max Holloway 2)
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- čas přidán 26. 05. 2021
- Let's revisit and put to rest, who really won in Alexander Volkanovski vs Max Holloway 2 at UFC 251.
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Reminder that Jose Aldo is also still the 145 GOAT
Nah
Naaah....idc who you are or where he was before that...the man was literally given the belt and went on a 7 fight win streak 🤦🏽♂️...I'm just saying Max went through a murderers row to get the belt...infact he beat Aldo twice and for those he are going to say Aldo came in on short notice just remember that Max took it on sort notice too
Absolutely
Naaaaaaaah
yessir, 2006-2015 undefeated win streak baby
What really matters to judges is how many times Joe Rogan shouts “HE’S ROCKED! OOOOOHHHHHH!” in a round.
judges don’t hear that
Oooh He's hurt, he's hurt! Like when Vince McMahon would go "1 2 3! He got him - no! No he didnt!"
He wasn’t even commenting this fight lmao
@@adamgaude5922 in the covid era you can hear what DC had for dinner that night...
😂😂😂Unfourtunatly this is a true statement.
Please do this same breakdown for the Jon Jones vs Dom Reyes fight.
The thing is reyes clearly won that one, it would be interesting but according to the rules reyes could have won 4-1.
Everyone knows Reyes won that fight 3 rounds to 2.
@@crazygingerjakeholden2771 nah 3-2, jon won the last two reyes the first three
@@souljacrankthat reyes rocked Jones badly in the 4th round watch it back and like the weasle said damage>everything is the rule, Jones taking him down and reyes getting up two seconds later can not be better than reyes rocking Jones dude. Only argument for round 4 for Jones is that it was in texas and they have the old rules where takedown count for more but still.
@@crazygingerjakeholden2771 nah in the only rule set it’s different. The main criteria is ‘effective striking’ which is defined by whoever outlanded their opponent in the round, nothing to do with damage. That being said, Reyes should’ve won 3-2
Can you do this kind of video for:
- Shevchenko vs Nunes 2,
- Reyes vs Jones and
- Hendricks vs GSP?
'Let's Put an End to It' would be a great title for the series.
Jones vs Gustafsson
only one of the people on the right side should've actually won their fight
Shevchenko
Reyes
GSP (old rules), Hendricks (new rules)
Yes
juice head Hendrick won but idgaf, he deserves to get robbed.
I think the controversy comes from Max winning rounds 1&2 more decisively than Alex winning 3&4 making it seem like Max clearly won when in reality they were both 10-9
Which stems the problem of current judging system. If they gave 10-10 rounds more to close rounds, it wouldn't be an issue. That or score it as a whole like Pride so we don't have point fighters gaming the system. OneFC uses Pride's scoring system and I'm not aware of any high-profile robbery as of present
well yeah cause max caused more damage. He had to two strikes that looked like knockdowns, they stick out more than anything else in this fight.
@@samme79 apparently under some commissions they are allowed to give 10-10 rounds but because of all the scoring criteria it's hard to justify them... I was certain we are gonna get like 3 of them during Adesanya/Romero lol
@@samme79 there is no problem. The only problem seems to be in ur head. CHAMPION'SHIP rounds. If max were to turn up rounds 4 and 5 he would have won. Simple my guy. Stop making it some weird judgement rule title fights have never been. 4th and 5th carry the entire fight. Been that way for 20 years now champ
@@sk8terG154 i believe if max flattened out volk, they would have given him a knockdown, and potentially the fight, but he still floundered the 4th and 5th. Damn shame. Alex is a hell of an athlete.
Octagon control means nothing unless it’s Jon jones nowadays lol
I think it still should the point fighting is for Olympic boxing and karate not mma
or Amanda Nunes
Jon Jones will never lose a decision. His takedowns are considered damn near 10-8's!!
it does matter
I think it should have some meaning. Like ring general ship in boxing. Someone has to bring the fight, and whoever that is is open to more risk.
This was great. Would love to see more of these with other controversial decisions
Still think voting for Biden was the right choice?
facts
Did you even watch the video
Aldo vs Marlon Moraes. Everyone swears up and down Aldo won, but if you go by round by round stats and the judging criteria, Marlon clearly won.
Condit Lawler
Whenever you stop looking at fighters and taking their losses what almost seems personally, the sport just becomes so much better
Amen. Don't get me wrong, I love the feeling of watching my favorite team/fighter winning. But sitting back and just appreciating the game/fight is so soothing
Something is gained, but something is lost.
You know that it’s a good break down when it actually causes me to change my thoughts on who won. I think Max Holloway is just so easy to support and believe in, we all wanted to believe that Max could show out for his son mini blessed
Great comment. It’s not often people realise how their own biases can really change objective to subjective
Respect for being open minded. I think the same thing just happened for Izzy but in the sense that he is so easy to support as he is the superstar and next best thing with confidence that outshines everyone. But, he lost 2,4,5 and a lot of people thought Izzy won easily.
@@pkouls23 I think part of what gives the illusion to people that Holloway and Izzy both won easily was the octagon control they had, along with the fact that they are both lovable of course
How dare you use logical arguments???? We all know Holloway won this fight, you'll never change my mind. #Peopleschamp
Lmao
@@TheWeasleMMA it was round 4 that was super close breakdown that
@@Northwest425 no it wasn’t Bolk won that
This was the perfect way to sum up the MMA community ‘s reasoning
I agree because I like Max.
this is the one title fight where the argument of “in order to beat the champion you need to beat the champion” is not brought up. it’s a shit argument, but it’s interesting how it’s seemingly unused for this one
I think Volk has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in many interviews and with how dismissive and rude at times he is when referring to Max. Guy just doesn't have a ton of fans
It's a bad argument and is not how championship fights are judged. They're judged the same way a non title 5 round fight is judged
@Hot Balls stop crying about that. Valentina is better than amanda? For me yes. She beat amand in 135? No because amanda IS THE CHAMPION and you cant beat the champion doing no damage and claiming that you won rounds, is so stupid. So by saying that i still recognize Valentina as a better fighter wisely and skillfully, but she is shorter, smaller fighter, thats not amanda's fault.
@@xinsanedefeatx casual fans are who talk shit about volka. For me he clearly didnt lose the fight, i admit he didnt won clearly. But to beat a champion you have to win rounds 4 and 5, only casuals dont understand this evident fact.
I noticed this hahaha weirdly wasn't used here..... Maybe people just wanted to pretend Alex was never champ! People still try to say Max one the first fight LOL
I would absolutely love to see this for Jones vs Reyes, or even Joanna vs Weili, considering how close both those fights were!
Joenna should of won against zhang
@@keynation1712 Joanna definitely won, but it'd be nice to see a breakdown highlighting that
@@chancegray4923 how you score the fight
@@keynation1712 I see the best argument for Joanna winning some combination of 1, 3, 4 or 5. I could even believe some arguing Joanna winning 4 rounds. 1 and 3 were SO close, so I believe thats where Weili was able to pull it off. 2nd round was definitely Weilis, but Joanna looked better in the close rounds in my opinion and the fight in general
@@chancegray4923 Joanna was landing more volume, zhang was landing the harder shots and damage is scored the highest. Only clear round for joanna was round 3, the rest were tossups slightly favoring zhang apart from round 2
I always thought Volkanovski edged this one out because the fight started turning in his favor toward the second half of the 3rd round and he won the last two. A close competitive fight though. He had to make some adjustments for the new package that Holloway brought to the fight compared to their first fight and started figuring him out in the 3rd round.
I mean stuff like this always happened when a popular fighter loses a fight. A lot of people won't accept the results.
If Reyes was more of a fan favorite, there would so much more of an uproar in his "loss" to Jones.
It was a super close fight though, man. You can't blame them. I totally get why some people 100% believe why Holloway won. It was so damn close.
@@Holio88 it’s fine to think Max won. Just can’t call it a robbery.
@@chrisaguilar1410 If you think Holloway won then, by definition, you believe he was robbed of the win.
@@chrisaguilar1410 amen, brother. Was so damn close. Assuming max butchers Yair. The rematch will be insane. I hope it happens.
Love the point weasle makes about how having pride rules wouldn't change anything - the fighters are going to change how they fight according to the rules of the contest. If they're any good anyway
@Brett S Nope
Couldn't agree more. It's funny how some people can't understand that sport is inherently a game of playing to a rule set. Rules influence play, not the other way around.
@Brett S that sounds dumb, sorry
Straw man argument and you're assuming everyone would fight different under a ruleset they've never experienced
@Brett S uh, i’ve competed before tough guy. i dont need to test that out. it still sounds stupid, sorry big man
Volk made some incredible adjustments in that fight after the second.. he’s the most hated/underrated fighter in Mma and I have no idea why. Because he beat everyones(including me) favorite fighter twice I guess🤷♂️
There delusional that’s why bro
How is he the most hated fighter lmao
@@ColeStudios6 this was almost a year ago everyone loves him now after the Ortega fight, but when he beat max twice and everyone called it a robbery maybe he wasn’t hated but definitely underrated, he’s been one of the pound for pound best for years
He’s farrrrrrr from the most “hated”
@@HotRoute7 well now he is lol
The biased commentary and the live striking stats (which are never even one to accurate) in this fight is what cause everyone to think Max Won.
Right? Bisping was super biased imo and the fake stats probably swayed many people. I dont think they should show those stats live, the difference between the unofficial and the official is insane
Nah he just straight up won. Everyone tries to say how Max didn't win, but they never give an argument for why Alex did? Justify it please. He never even stunned Max once, barely outlanding him in some rounds - which is completely meaningless. Damage is the only important scoring metric and Max landed the heavier shots in 1-3, dropping Alex twice. Max clearly landed far more damage in the fight. Just a lot of bending over backwards nonsense to justify this whack decision. Imagine getting slapped about, stunned, dropped multiple times, straight up embarrassed tbh - and then going and telling your boys you won the fight cause you landed a couple of jabs and light leg kicks, but never even hurt the guy. It would never fly! Everyone would say you got your arse kicked, because Alex did. He rallied well, but he got slapped about for half that fight like it was easy. If we weren't trying to look for a way to justify the judges poor decision their would be zero controversy.
@@Neil-qg9cw Lmao heres a copy paste I keep.
The decision was right but it should have been a UNANIMOUS decision to Volk.
Consensus is Max won 1 and 2 (agreed).
Volk wins 3 as he lands more significant strikes and more efficiently. Sure argue it’s only leg kicks but Volk lands 10/27 to the head compared to 2/22 for Max
Round 4 is the same plus a takedown for Volk. All judges scored like the above until Round 5
Round 5 Volk again lands more and more efficiently. 37/51 strikes vs. 23/61. Max lands more body shots but eats more head (and leg) strikes AND gets taken down twice.
2 judges scored Rd 5 to Volk and 1 to Max making it split. Rd 5 is the clearest Volk round so should have been a unanimous decision.
Ez copy and paste. Argue with that please, I doubt you can
@@Neil-qg9cw Wow we can tell who the Max fanboy is eh? Embarrassed? Nah he wasn't embarrassed. Know whats embarrassing? Working SOOOOO hard to try to get your title back and falling short by such a tiny margin lmao, Volk's the champ and if you can't accept that, go find another sport because MMA doesn't care about your feelings.
@@Neil-qg9cw ''Everyone tries to say how Max didn't win, but they never give an argument for why Alex did?'' You're on a 12 minute video that literally takes you through why Alex won step by step. Are you dense? 48-47 or 49-46 for Volk.
When I scored it, I saw round 3 as dead even, I lean max but the fight was nowhere near a robbery
Edit: this was before I watched Weasels video on scoring it, I now think Volk won
yes, fight could have gone either way and it did, but it was def not a robbery, I thought it should’ve been a draw but no way did max get robbed
Round by round it’s razor thin. Anyone could have taken the third. But on the totality of the fight Max did more damage in the first two rounds than Volk than in the last three. The current judging system is not really the best, maybe something like open scoring that ONE does would be better, but that gives the judges more room to screwup.
@@calvincalvin3132 that wouldn’t make sense there was no 10-8 round
@@cookazor he is saying Rounds 1,2 were Max. Rounds 4 and 5 were Volk. And round 3 was a draw. This was the exact same way I had it. 2-2 with round 3 as a draw. How Round 5 was hard to judge, but round 3 was unanimous for the judges makes no sense
@@Arif-kw5rw yeah round 5 was the deciding round which was clear for volk imo
[5:53] Funny how the truck essentially has the strike count the exact opposite of yours. Kinda shows people they probably shouldn't be lending too much credence to that junk.
Or the commentary which is sometimes biased.
@Marri Harris I don’t think he’s blindly biased. I think he does whatever he’s told
Difference is that live stats are calculated live... no time to rewatch the clip
@@AkamapD True story.
@@AkamapD most people don't understand how inaccurate those stats can be!
After the fight I said "Volk won imo, but a draw may be fair also". Never felt like Max won. People just can't accept it because they love Max and are indifferent to Volk. I love Max too, but I always call it how I see it.
People who actually know and rewatched the fight know that max wasn't robbed.
It's mostly the larger audience who only watched the fight once or are too much of a fan of max to give Volko fair judging.
These people deserve to be ignored, it's a shame that they aren't.
100%
Preach. The stats also overwhelmingly support Volk as well.
👏👏👏
Nah I still think Max won. I have my own brain and don't just repeat the nonsense the Weasle has made up in this vid and his last one. He literally makes up who lands harder and then tries converting that to a fact. The only fact is that Max did by far the more quality work.
@@Neil-qg9cw Gents, I present to you, the infamous brick wall....
You should make a series of debunking "robberies" Or "robberies" That no one realised at the time
I want to see how he judges GSP vs Hendricks
@@thenedsmmachannel8970 potentially juiced Hendricks definitely won that one.
If you mean "robberies" as in close fights, you can't really "debunk" those. It's all a matter of perspective of who you think did more. The criteria alone "effective striking" is very subjective on what you think is effective. For example Frankie Edgar: Frankie (with his usual fighting style) is very active and has a lot of output, most of those can be construed as pitter-patter shots but some judges consider it "effective" while others don't. In summary, unless ALL media scoring and stats point to someone else winning, you can't really call them "robberies" and you can't "debunk" them because at the end of the day, it's the judges that decide. It goes to the problems of modern day MMA judging which copies boxing's 10-point must scoring system. Pride's overall judging approach was WAY WAYYYY better. If people don't like that, then we can score more 10-10 rounds if they're so evenly matched
Seems like a favorite fighter of yours won In a controversial decision and you want to prove they are wrong.
@@shushanthswinderballs1122 did he pop though? Not. He whopped GSP like a goofball that night. By today's criteria he woukd have won 49-46 on all cards
If you disagree with the decision, be mad at the Judges, not Volkanovski. He did his job, and is supposed to celebrate his success.
We're mad at both of them
@@zaphyros2518 Why?
@@genericereal Because Volkanovski boring af
@@FuckCZcams554 😂 😂 you are joking right?
@@FuckCZcams554 What this tells me is that you don't watch his fights.
Weasle, your analysis is incredible! Arguably the best combination of analytical skill + entertainment in the mma community.
Thanks so much man!
Watching this live, with Bisping constantly crying about how Holloway was up 3-0, I heavily bought into that and thought it was a bit of a robbery.
Then I rewatched it while tuning out Bisping. I felt like the biggest fool ever. Volk clearly took rounds 3-5, objectively so. NTM, extremely close rounds like that absolutely should always go in the champion's favor.
last part seems like a bad take they always say not to leave it to the judges if you're a challenger but to say that it should always go in the champions favor is crazy
People throw arround the word robbery too much, no close fight can be truly considered a robbery. Kevin Randlemen vs Bas Rutten was a robbery, sean spencer vs cathal pendred was a robbery. Kevin and Sean clearly dominated both of those fights and were awarded losses. That is a robbery.
Trust
Diego Sanchez Ross Pearson
chito vera vs song yadong its another example
A fight can be close and still be a robbery
close fights can be considered robberies if they have a clear cut winner even by a small margin
Weasle make a video like this on Askren vs Masvidal.
I am not sure who won because Masvidal was tapping out on the ground and people thought he was just teasing Ben😂
Love this new video… really gives an insight as to how rounds are scored. Thanks weasel ❤️
When it's close like that, that's when you absolutely should take into consideration octogon controll, because Max was absolutely stalking him
Dude, exactly! I appreciate the breakdown showing it was basically a draw with respect to striking though.
100%
Someone could “stalk” their opponent for the whole fight and get dominated. Octagon control doesn’t mean anything if you’re getting out struck
Its not that close though. That only comes into play if damage is exactly equal. And you can see here thanks to this video that it wasn't. Octagon ultimately doesn't mean shit if you don't use to land more damage, which Max didnt do here, its just a position in the end. Just say you're a fan, you don't have to come up with third and fourth level excuses for why the guy should have won after the first and second level ones have been addressed. People wouldn't do this for 90% of the other fighters in the roster if put in the same position
Octagon control doesn't just mean coming forward, it has to be effective aggression. When the guy going backwards is landing more strikes while throwing less you can argue he's the one in control
I already gave Volk his flowers for getting 2 “official” wins against Holloway but this breakdown made me realize just how skilled a fighter Volk really is
Yeah I think he will give Ortega a run for his money
@@EdenPrime7 it’ll be a great fight!! I’m interested to see what happens when it gets to the ground, T-City has worked hard to improve his game and we’ll see just how good he got
@@joshuangalaba553 Problem is people forget Volk has pretty crazy wrestling for an Aussie kind of like Rob does.... So i feel he will manage to keep it standing.
Excited to see if Ortega's striking is at that next level now though.
@@joshuangalaba553It’s funny you say that:
I didn’t really think Volk seemed that great before this fight, but I still thought he won. And I kept hearing everyone say Max won, so I watched this fight a bunch of times to make sure that I wasn’t crazy for thinking Volk won …
That’s when I realized that Volk is an absolutely *brilliant* striker. I think he is one of the 5 best strikers, 5 best boxers, and might have _the_ best jab in MMA.
I don’t know why, but I just never realized it. It’s almost like his shots don’t draw attention the way other fighters do.
@@joshuangalaba553 just because T-City is good on the ground doesn't mean the fight is guaranteed to go that route. It's not like Volkov will throw himself on the ground to play Ortega's game.
I remeber being flabbergasted watching this fight live with my friends when Alex won. Crazy part is even though I wanted Max to win, I put my money on Alex in a bet against my friend that night. I had Max winning the first 3 rounds. Objectively based on the judging criteria you proved in this video that Alex won. I think the reason why I and most other people had Max winning the 3rd is because of the optics of pressure. When your watching it live you dont have this deep of an understanding of the quantity and quality of the strikes landed. I remeber saying the 3rd was close but Max looked more impressive because of pressure which I now know doesnt count for shit, as well as initiating the striking exchanges. The breakdown is really objective, but when I watched the fight live I had Max winning the 3rd clearly even though it was more competitive than the first two. I'm going to rewatch this fight tonight and see if I still feel the same way about the third.
Khabib pressured Justin so much he backpedalling until he gassed out at the end of round one, and 2 of the judges still gave the round to Justin, so yeah, does not that much count for shit like you said.
Also, from my observation, if the 3rd round is very close in a 5-round fight where one fighter already lost 2 prior rounds, the judges will gave 3rd round to the losing fighter almost every time. It could be the mental trap that they kinda want to give the losing fighters a fighting chance instead of losing the fight outright in the 3rd round. You can see in this fight too, as the 3rd round was really close and the judges all gave the rounds to Volk.
@@vitzveer where's your proof for this point?
Well now you can watch again for free on YT courtesy of the UFC and the first fight too
RD1 Volk: 19 of 39 - 48%
Max: 19 of 47 - 40%
RD2 Volk: 22 of 47 - 46%
Max: 21 of 52 - 40%
RD3 Volk: 25 of 52 - 48%
Max: 15 of 47 - 31%
RD4 Volk: 34 of 63 - 53%
Max: 24 of 61 - 39%
RD5 Volk: 37 of 71 - 52%
Max: 23 of 61 - 37%
Takedowns- Volk: 3
Max: 0
Significant strikes total-
Volk: 137
Max: 102
Significant strikes percentage
Volk: 50%
Max: 38%
Total strikes-
Volk: 139
Max: 111
Total striking percentage
Volk: 50.55%
Max: 40.07%
Control time
Volk: 1.25 minutes
Max: 0.00 minutes
He very clearly lost the 3rd round, and the fight.
Great work! Been subbed for several years now. Just want to give you credit for your content and how you keep me watching every video!
I swear, the only reason so many people believe Holloway won is because Bisping said so on the broadcast. Commentators should leave their scoring out, because they definitely can't score effectively while commentating. Super annoying.
Not only that hes a fan favorite. Say if the fight went the exact same way but it was Yair instead of Max, no one would've batted an eye that Volk won.
Did you even watch the fight it could’ve went either way, I say Alex win but y’all need to put some respect on Max’s name a top 3 featherweight of all time.
@@thenedsmmachannel8970 He’s a legend
@@dashawnballard52 he is but even legends lose
@@dashawnballard52 alex is the only one that dismantled max's games better than everyone, and he showed that is not so unbeatable like fans think. He won 5 rounds in the first fight also rounds 4 5 in the second AND now casuals know that he won round 3 also. So... max's is being disrespected? Or is the reverse? Think about that man.
The biggest robbery in UFC history is Jones vs Reyes
Thats up there forsure. Diego Sanchez vs Ross Pearson is also one of them.
Nah i can see an argument for jon. Biggest robbery ive ever seen is al vs jorge.
@@I_barely_know there’s no argument for Jon. In the old rule set the main 2 criteria are ‘effective striking’ which means whoever outlanded their opponent in the round, and then effective grappling which talks about who controls where the fight is taking place. Reyes outlanded jones in the first 3 rounds and jones landed 0 takedowns, and only had 15 seconds of control time, in which he was outlanded 3-0 (in the clinch). Reyes objectively won. That being said, there’s certainly been bigger robberies
@@louismorrison7207 based on the judging criteria of damage trumping all, Reyes won the 4th round as well. John McCarthy even agrees. The fact that Reyes won 49-46 and was robbed by a judge who had it 49-46 the other way is beyond egregious and especially since it was for a title makes it the biggest robbery in UFC history
Max won the first 2 so convincingly so fans didn't want to accept that Volk made the adjustments to win the last 3 rounds.
ong
you're crazy. He did not win any of those fights convincingly.
@@codypriceCZcamsAddednumbers the first two rounds mate not the first two fights..
Luke Thomas rewatching this fight 49 times scares me
Exactly, like how bored do you have to be to rewatch a 25 minute fight 49 times. What a strange guy. 2x is more than enough.
CREAM GOAT
Whats up weasel hope your havin a good day brotha
What's up Cristian. Thanks man, and hope the same for you 👊
Aye ditto ^^ take care y'all much love !
Weasel good breakdown max won
You’re *
@@jezebulls who
It could have gone either way. People that shout "robbery" clearly don't know how a fight is judged according to the rules. They judge it according to their own rules or who they personally favor to win.
This is coming from a giant fan of Max Holloway.
Judges are shit homie. They get it wrong almost as often as they get it right. There needs to be a legit scoring system. Like 3 leg kicks or 3 jabs shouldn't out point a punch that wobbles someone
@@Tikimohn But it didn't. The two rounds in which Max dropped him, both went to Max. Nobody's even disputing that.
Great breakdown dude. You should do more of these.
To be fair, Max had 2 knockdowns in 1st and 2nd round, but ufc has dumb knockdown rule. In boxing it's 10-8 immediatly
@Vasili Antonov Yeah? Isn't the damage the same then? If you score a knockdown it's closer to ending the fight than just beating up someone
With boxing knockdowns, they have a standing 8 count and give the downed fighter time to regain his senses. No such rule in MMA. Fighters move in for the kill and finish off their downed opponents for a KO victory. But this never happened in the Volk v Max fight. Why was that? Because Volk was hardly knocked down. He fell to one knee and then bounced straight back up and was immediately throwing hard combinations at Max. He wasn't hurt & never ate a single follow-up punch. In boxing, it wouldn't even have been counted as a knock down. Round 1 was actually very close until that moment.. Never mind the biased tv commentary and stats. Watch it again. It was close. The brief knock down meant Max won it 10-9... Max didn't deserve a 10-8 win for that round. Exactly the same story for Round 2. Forget the stats & commentary. Watch it again. It was a close round. And then Max won it with a brief knock down at the end. Volk was straight back up and swinging, completely unfazed... Give the round to Max 10-9, but not 10-8.
I'm still pretending Max won because he's a really neat fellow.
It’s annoying because even live I was feeling like volk would win the decision, but the way max dropped him early, I thought he deserved it
@@pstratos7 same. To be honest it was just one of those fights those 2 dudes were just so evenly matched its impossible to tell who won.
@@Holio88 yeah no robbery here volk was great, winning the first 3 rounds is always going to be risky especially challenging (Reyes vs Jones was similar)
@@pstratos7 Amen, brother. I'm 100% on the Blessed Expressed. But that fight was so beautiful and evenly matched we can't take away from Volk. Hope they get to meet again and it will be HUGE. Goodluck to both men.
Volk’s a pretty neat fellow too. Sayin this as a Holloway fan
I think volk won 3-2, volk won 3-2 for me very clear.
Same, when I watched it live with my pops, he said 3-2 Max and I said 3-2 Alex
I had a gut feeling they’d give it to max and the judges actually got it right
I wouldn't say Volk won 3-2 clearly. But I had 3-2 for Volk watching live
Completely disagree. 3-2 Max and pretty clearly. 1-3 Max, 4-5 Alex. 3 was very close though, at worst I'd say it was a tie - which makes the fight a draw. But I'd tip my hat to Max for doing far more quality work in 1-2 than Alex did in 4-5. I can see literally no argument for how Alex won in a fight he got slapped about for 2 straight rounds, and then the last 3 were quite competitive. At best he eek'd out a draw.
@@Neil-qg9cw that's not how the 10-9 must system works. Max would have won the fight if judged on a whole. Alex won 3 rounds to 2. Therefore Alex won.
@@Neil-qg9cw the fact you think a tie is possible proves volk clearly won 3-2 and you know nothing about judging. They was no 10-8 rounds so it litrelly is mathematically impossible to be a draw but okay you flat eather. Volk clearly won round 3, he done more damage in round 3.
Love your vids man keep em up!
Huge fan of yours and love the idea for close decision breakdowns being an ongoing thing, but my issue is at 1:20 when you say that forward pressure and octagon control don't matter at all. Are you sure the judges aren't factoring that? Or in a round that is this close to the naked eye, don't you think some of the judges would begin to factor those others areas?
Can you make this a series plz🙏🏽?
Max fanboys mad
Lol you probably don't box
@@robertflynn3246 nah your right I don’t box I do muay thai, got my blue belt in BJJ last august, and I am a varsity wrestler
@@CazWitDaCash if you don't add me it proves you caping 🧢
Lol where you at big dog
@@robertflynn3246 whats your @
7:10 this is exactly the point I see a lot of people miss when they talk about a fight. They say "well if the conditions were different, if the rules were different, If there were more rounds" without realizing that the fighters are aware of the current parameters of the fight and are performing accordingly. I.e. just because a guy turns it up in the 3rd doesn't mean they would've won a 5 round fight because they would have fought differently had they known they had 5 rounds. Same with the ruleset.
I see this back again. The previous video was deleted and I was a bit surprised/shocked/disappointed because this is a great reference to scoring a close fight/round in MMA. Thanks 😊👍
Am i tripping or has weasel uploaded this video before
He uploaded a shorter version of this before
I also remember a video similar to this.
yes he uploaded the video right after the fight
he reviewed the third round in the video
Was a razor close fight realistically. Definitely not a robbery. Feel bad for Volk because he deserves more respect for how good he is in the octagon and how much of a nice guy he is in general
Yeah, i think people love Max too much and want Volk to talk like he lost the fight because people are salty. But why should he? If you win a very close fight vs one of the best be proud.
@@fiercedonkey4556 but he didn’t win
@@TuckerWittenberg Did you even watch the video 🤦♂️
Brilliant content - do more of these bro!
Doesn't help when the UFC puts up stats for a round DURING THE ROUND! 25-22 to Max. So people are naturally going to accept that and call it a robbery. There should be a disclaimer above that graphic.
Great work Weasle. It's interesting that you scored it for Max watching it live but for Volko upon dissection. You can't expect the judges to be seeing the fight in this way live and some judges will miss good strikes simply because their position is lateral to the two fighters as you mentioned.
In the end I think it was those two good heavy shots that must have stood out in the round that won it for AV. Certainly not a robbery and a very exciting trilogy awaits should they both meet again.
25-22 was on 50 seconds to the end of round,final score in sig. strikes was 28-24 for max 🤣🤣 i just wonder how they count that strikes 🤦♂️
P.s. in first fight in every round Volk win in sig. strikes but still two judges score 48-47 so i must ask which rounds max won in first fight....thats was robbery...and 49-46 with ortega one judge score wtf
I'm happy you mentioned that if fighters knew the rules were different, they would fight accordingly. The argument "if the rules were different holloway would've win" doesn't stand here, most people doesn't take that in cosideration.
In addition Volkanovski has great fight IQ and always implements great gameplans, therefore he would 100% adapt to different rules.
It makes absolutely no sense to use "if" as an argument.
Exactly, as soon as you start bringing the rules into the debate, everything else is redundant, that's an entirely different conversation. EVERYTHING is dependant upon the rules. Different rules would lead to different outcomes.
Max did way more damage in the whole fight, it’s not always who lands the most strikes
This isn’t pride rules
@@CazWitDaCash Read the UFC judging rules, damage done is literally the primary factor in judging fights (or is supposed to be)
Actually, according to the current scoring system it kinda is who lands the most. Except for knockdowns and knock outs
@@PMoofin No 10-8 rounds tho. Your acting as if damage was a role in this fight besides the first two rounds. Pride took damage more seriously. If you get outstruck by double digit numbers then your so called “damage” means nothing.
@@CazWitDaCash then JJ beat Rose in the rematch
Genius 👏🏿. Simple but effective way to judge. You need to do more of these for controversial fights!
This video made my week! Been asking for this years
I think we all need to be careful calling close fights a "robbery". As usual, great Breakdown Weasle, keep up the great work your knowledge in the Sport really is something amazing!
Yes. We all know, if it's a close fight, it can go either way. Judging is and can be (as in "is allowed to be") subjective to some extend. While damage is the first priority, it's hard to tell how much damage was actually inflicted, so a judge has to guess which is subjective by its very nature. The same goes for all other categories. If fighters landed more or less the same amount of strikes, it's up to the judge to decide which strikes inflicted more damage. Of course, there are robberies, where when you somehow made the fighters unrecognizable on a screen, 99% of people would come to the same conclusion, and the judges f*ed up if they gave it to the other fighter. But in close fights, if fighters were unrecognizable, and you'd have a split of 60% seeing one fighter the winner and 40% the other, it's not really a robbery.
Good breakdown. Did you notice that at about 5:45 in your video, you are scoring it 25-22, but the UFC official stats on the screen have it 22-25? That certainly would help create the impression for viewers that Max was winning the round - when fans, casual or otherwise watch, we're not counting every strike (I guess there is the odd Rainman out there...) so when strike stats are posted live, it definitely helps shape our impression as to what is happening. In this case, that Max was just edging in it.
You definitely right...the official ufc stats after the fight say that Max was outstruck by 10 strikes in round 3, i have no idea how live stats can be so far apart from the recounted strikes after the fight
@@quae4729 unofficial (and weasel apparently) count blocked shots
@@quae4729your not looking at the right fight
Great stuff,I hope to see alot more of these
such a banger of a fight man, i love when fights like these are controversial so we can never stop talking about them.
This fight perfectly shows the limitations of the rules of mma. Max clearly won the first 2 rounds, split the 3rd, closely lost the 4th and clearly the 5th. Despite Max being easily the better fighter when he was winning, and being competitive when he was losing, due to how rounds are scored Volk wining isnt really that big of a robbery, or even much of a mistake. I think they need to implement half points and be more liberal with ruling rounds a draw. Using this system:
Max: 10 8.5 :Volkanovski
Max: 10 8.5 :Volkanovski
Max: 10 10 :Volkanovski
Max: 9 10 :Volkanovski
Max: 9 10 :Volkanovski
Final Scoring:
Max: 48 47 :Volkanovski
Round 3 could have been a 10 - 9.5 win to either side, but max would still win by half a point regardless. Round 4 also could be a 10 - 9.5 round, but would have to watch it again. All in all judging it like this really helps to show the differences in performances between rounds, and gives the fight to the rightful winner
So half points is the solution? Lol
half points is dumb asf, shit would be so complicated for no reason
also it’s really funny when the fighter you wanted to win loses so you have to come up with a scoring system entirely
I say this all the time tbh. Scoring by rounds is horrendous, in boxing for example, you could be winning 9 rounds just barely by a punch. Then you can get destroyed the last 3 rounds and you'll win the decisión. Zabit vs Kattar, Zabit won 1 & 2 just barely, but got whooped in the 3rd. Fights should be scored as a whole like in ONE, not round by round
Thats kind of silly reasoning... if we're going to go with the "better fighter because of..." line of thinking, someone could just have easily have made the case that its Volkanovski because he took control of a fight he was initially losing and Max lost control of a fight he was initially winning - or that by the end of the fight, Volk was the one winning, so he wins by "schoolyard rules" or something
17 mins ago... Just went back into lockdown here in Melbourne and im in a break from online school. Perfect timing. Thank you weasel
No one cares about asstralia
@@pube66 yet here you are watching a breakdown of an Aussie fighter besting an American fighter you douche
@@stevej3297 more like a nz fighter 😂😂😂 everyone knows the kiwis beat your asses. Even robs a kiwi😜🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🇺🇲🇺🇲
@@pube66 Volkanovski isn’t a kiwi mate, he was born in NSW mate
@@muntyd533 all his fight camps are nz🤪🤣 he knows if he wants to get stronger he has to train with kiwis😎
What I learned from this series is that scoring is hard and most robberies are not robberies, even if we can debate scoring back and forth.
Just watched 3 videos of this channel and I already subscribed...keep up the good content brother👍🏻
Do this with Jones vs Reyes cause I feel like Reyes was missing more punches then we think. I would love to see your view on that fight.
Exactly bro. People love to hate a champion just because his fights are boring. I hate casual fans.
Perfect fight to do this on
@@behonestro1425 facts G
@@Glaedr11 YES!
@Me Th ?? Are you alright bro?
Thanks for doing this, I was waiting for someone to do it. Another youtuber did one for Darren Till vs Wonderboy. Found it interesting. Also I was under the impression that they judged first and foremost "effective striking/grappling" not "damage"? I think the 1st and 2nd round just looked so good for Max that people had their blinders on during the close rounds.
Effective striking is actually jargon for damage haha. Im pretty sure when they were creating the rules, a lot of people had problems with putting damage in the rules because it made the sport seem barbaric so they just labeled it as effective striking
This vid is bollocks but w/e, Weasle isn't the source of all truth lmao. He literally made up half the nonsense he spoke about and contradicted himself from other vids. He thought Max won directly after the fight, cause Max won the fight.
@@Neil-qg9cw lmao are you going under every comment and typing this? This is a repost buddy and he even said in the video, he thought max won on the first watch and then he rewatched it and thought volk won. This video came out right after ufc 251 buddy
@@Neil-qg9cw In a later podcast I clearly remember him saying Volkanovski won. Also he seemed very consistent with his own and the UFC's rules, idk what you're on about.
@@Neil-qg9cw whats your evidence that Max won the fight? I’ll listen but the official fights stats show a story that coincides with what weasel has said here.
Excellent analysis, time and effort you put into this, thanks for this video, hope to see more of these😎👌👍
Looking forward to more of these!!
I felt like Max won but Volkanovski got unnecessary abuse from Max's fans
Don’t blame the fans, majority of mma fans thought he won.
They were even commenting on his wife’s photos, absolute losers
@@peteypedro9 doesn’t mean you spend months spamming his family’s social media saying he lost
@@peteypedro9 watch this video, most “most mma fans” are clearly wrong if they think Max won
@@peteypedro9 why you blaming alex for winning, blame the judges then, alex is the one out there fighting for our entertainment and money, so backwards that fans get mad at the fighters for winning instead of the refs who actually call the fight
Amazing detailed breakdown!!! You've just created a new type of MMA breakdown!! Really cool idea!!
Have you seen Izzy's two breakdowns of his fights! They're incredible!! He just created a new type of MMA breakdown as well, from the fighter's perspective. It's wild! What he was trying to do, what happened to him and his opponents. It shows his personality, humour, objectives, etc
Do you have a link?
@@mightymac1005 czcams.com/video/5eHRa6uKKxs/video.html
When I was watching the fight live, I was like alright, Max made necessary adjustments, looking good, first two rounds in the bag. Then as I was watching the third round, the momentum and personal sympathy wanted me to score it for Max, but I was like hey, don't let the bias influence you, look, Volk's made the adjustments himself and it seems like Max is losing focus, he's actually losing the round - that's what I thought. Fighting Volk in a chess match is such a hard thing to do and you've got have that focus 100% all the time, and I think in the third round Max couldn't keep it at a level of the first two rounds.
It's the fact that the fan favorite lost so everyone is crying about it
The desrespect from some Max fans toward Volk is unreal. Man won the belt through sheer hard work and consistency and these low lives talk endless shit because of one razor-close fight..
Some?
I’m from the future, it gets better for volk
I hate how Volk gets so much stick and is unappreciated because Max is a fan favorite
Thank you for taking the time to do this now I know.
Thank you for this breakdown
It changed a lot about this fight, for me
nice job, appreciate the boldness and honesty. Max is so well liked, we all must have had a real bias in this one. Id like to see max win the 3rd one. Cheers
After watching multiple breakdowns, now I can see how Volkanovski won:
I love Max, Volkanovski is bad man.
You love max but not mma...
@@behonestro1425 what are you talking about . Stay off the internet little kid
After watching multiple breakdowns Max still won. Weasle bending over backwards to try and justify the judges nonsense. He wouldn't have had to do this had they just given it to the rightful winner.
@@ratmcratty5033 im talking about you being a casual fan kid. How are you?
@@kieran5246 they love max's dick bro. Leave them alone. I love mma so i dont have to pick the winner like a casual fan, if a guy does a video analyzing very well who won, and people still denying it, is stupid...
Damn you should do this format for every 'robbery'. I love the strike counter
Always love the breakdowns, funny thing is I was trying to find ur breakdown of this fight yesterday because of the Max Holloway vs Yair Rodriguez announcement
Damn this must have taken a lot of effort to go through and analyze all the strikes in the 3rd round frame by frame. I'd love to see more of these controversial decisions analyzed
Yeah cherry pickings not easy 🤫😉
@@justintharp5652 awww lil max fan still can't take the truth when its presented in front of him 🤣🤣cry more dumba$$🤣🤡
"Does anybody else here think Volkanovski won that fight?" -Dana White *Complete Silence*
Yes complete silence in a room where the only people allowed to talk are the people selected for questions and Dana himself
@@crazykubla yeah because raising your hand doesn’t exist right?
@@winston2831 you think Dana acts any differently if anyone does? Dana just threw his opinion out knowing full well it wasn't going to be challenged.
He could've easily said "did anyone have it for max, me neither" and would have gotten the same response.
Out of the 25 media members, 7 had it for Volk and thats right after the biased commentary and fake live stats
@@crazykubla but Dana specifically asked them a question.
Thank you! Probably my favorite video from you!
Great analysis of how much volume is a factor as well
I always thought that Volkanovski won that fight by slightly edging Max out in round 3. Max fans are honestly delusional sometimes. Yes it was a close fight and could have gone either way. But in no world is this fight a robbery.
Had a Max fan saying that Max beat Poirier
I was so nervous judges would screw Volk over watching it live, based on Max's status and early succes. It's common thing, when people see a guy who clearly wins two rounds and the following round is close, the audince tends to favor a person who had succes earlier
You’re calling Max fans delusional but you said that Volk slightly edged him out in round 3. It’s 4 whole strikes lol, Volk nor Max fans are delusional for thinking either guy won.
@@Mac10Demarco I said Max fans are delusional for thinking it's a robbery. A robbery is when the fight is entirely one sided for one guy but the opponent wins on the judges scorecards. This is not the case with this fight. I said in my original comment that it was a super close fight that could have gone either way. You can't call it a robbery.
@@RationalLlama oh my bad man.
I still think Holloway won but can see a compelling argument for Volk. That’s just me though. It was a very close fight.
if damage is the ultimate criteria .. would it mean that andrade won over rose in the rematch?
Tbh, I thought for a long time that maybe I was to bias towards Alex. I thought the third round was volks by a smidge and each time I rewatched it, I fell deeper and deeper. This video put me at ease!
I really like this type of video, hope I can see more in the future!
I'm Australian so Alex definitely won, no doubt about it.
You're country lost a war to a bunch of emus
Why did you state that your Australian?
@@Amadeus-ni3et have you ever come up against an Emu? They're nasty bastards. No shame in that.
@@malcolmz3626 r/woosh
@@nomudnolotus4410 my bad i thought you were just dumb, you can't tell with people on the internet nowadays
hahaha, I love that you keep coming back to this. Max showed that he could beat Alexander, he just didn't. He might in the future! If he beats Yair, then he'll be first in line again.
Thanks Weasle. Love your work mate. Max blitzed early and put on a great fight, these two are elite fighters who have earned the ultimate respect from MMA fans. Volkanovski IMO did try to edge out 3 rounds w/out trying to force a KO; at least that's what I saw. Thanks for sharing this. Respect to both fighters for being the best in the world ... looking forward to the next chapter.
Awesome breakdown. Really appreciated it :)
Max is my boy. I'm even from the same exact place as him. Volk out worked him in both fights. Not by a lot, but enough to get the W....that's it
Lol, I was just having a debate with a friend about this fight and was looking for your earlier vid on it. Thanks Weasle
So you found a video that proves Max was out landed by 4 whole strikes as your argument?
@@Mac10Demarco pretty much lol
@@taleofthetape7499 hes saulty his boy lost 😂
@ed how much do you have to win a race by to win? Pretty solid argument
Weasle's videos on these fights are genuinely the worst he has ever made. Full of 'facts' he pulled out his ass and a strange bias for what the judges saw. Immediately after the fight Weasle thought Max won, because he did.
Fantastic analysis by the Weasle. Thank-you.
this is a fun concept for a series
This one is definitely not a robbery, and agreed Volk won round 3. But same logic: looking for the more significant strikes in round 4, personally i think there is a case Max took round 4. Volk landed 2 good leg kicks, and both traded a bunch of meaningless ones. Max landed a good upper cut forcing Volk back and followed up with a spinning body kick that threw Volk to the fence - the most significant combo of this round imo. Both landed a jab that snapped each other's head back, and toward the end Volk landed a good jab that snapped Max's head back but seconds later Max answered with a solid right hand. Volk had a takedown but landed 0 strikes during the exchange and actually ate 3 small upper cuts on the exit. Round 4 overall, mostly insignificant strikes that canceled each other out, a meaningless takedown imo, 2 or so good snapping punches each way, but I think comes down to Max's uppercut+spinning kick combo vs Vok's 2 solid leg kicks. I scored it for Max personally, and don't think round 4 is one-sided at all. Just an opinion, and since people talked about r3 mostly, would love to hear what other people think about round 4.
Only you on the earth give 4-th round to max when even max rooters admit that he lose last two round...controversal round was third,by now...but now you see who won this round...
I always thought volkanovski won and it was soo close so idk why everyone says max got robbed
They're emotional max fanboys that's why
@@real2606 your a max fan it hurts u saying this
Ur a fanboy as well lol volk smoke him in the spliff you fanboy tryna be volk fan gtfo
When Weasle's strike count was Volk 25 and Max 22 the broadcast said the exact opposite
Newer to the channel, just curious. Do you agree with damage trumps all? I get why the UFC likes this formula better because it’s less subjective. It’s harder to properly evaluate control and pressure. But IMO it just seems really broad to look at fighting as just damage when we all know it’s more than that.