The History of Khazad-Dum (Moria)
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 07. 2023
- In Deep Geek - Insight and intelligent discussion on Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, The Witcher and more.
Join me every Thursday on IDG live for discussions: / @idglive
This is a revised and updated version of a video previously uploaded in 2022.
Join me on Patreon - / indeepgeek
Follow me on Twitter - @indeepgeek
Follow me on Instagram - indeepgeekofficial
Follow me on Facebook - / indeepgeek
For more merch - shop.spreadshirt.com/indeepgeek
Or ... shop.spreadshirt.co.uk/indeep...
For merch, audiobooks, and all things In Deep Geek, explore my website - www.indeepgeek.com
Lord of the Rings playlist - • Video
My audiobook channel: The Well Told Tale - / thewelltoldtale
T
his video was brought to you with support from my amazing Patreon community - special thanks to:
Stephanie Frederick, Joshua Clark, Maura Lee, Rabbi Rob Thomas, Brooke Geer Person, Josh Bielemeier, Jane, Vance, Amy Southerland, Ivie Hilburn, Jimmy, Vercingetorix, Callie Summers, Ariel Winchester, Edward Ryan, Stephanie B, Coleen, Ben Androvich, Nana L, Brennan Barnes, Ivanka Hainzl, Howland’s Little Sister, Charis Messalina de Valence, Donna Daley, Cade Norman, Murray D, Lily Mellon, NOscar, Rick Hoppe, Leathery Wings, James Pisano, Bridget Boyle, TheStarkInWinterfell, Ellemcee, Alannah Prestayn of Braavos, Raymond Joy, Jonathan Harrison, Jared, Petyr Pebble, Jason Mauleon Rosario, Milton Christopher Appling, Edward Ennett, Katy Smith, 26Artgirl, Karen Thomas, Rickon, Cathrine Furseth, James Fitzpatrick, Doug Hughes, lawnduck20, Perseffanie, Emily Mole, Lady Dane, The Late Escapist, Natalie Donald, J. Gregory Henderson, Andrew Warnock, whalawitsa, Luna Cascade, Dan MacKay, Johnny Targs, Milla, Ashton DeAngrlo, Kevin Warner, Julie Bernard, Demps 2002, St Jamalamington, Bear, Carolina Kley, Susan Lonergan, Bo Riley, Brad Paquin, Lyle Hammac, Taryn Giles, Alex Butter, Pam Peterson, Bettina Charlotte Nielsen, T boz, Angela Marie Young, Sarah Awesomesauce, Stephanie Erickson, KaliKo_Jack, SeaGreenMango, GeorgeRRTolkien, Antihero Association, Richard Woodard, Jenny Smith, Caiden Timmons, Britt, ThatVBGuy, Tyler Barnhart, Daiwai, John H. Austin, Jr, NikFromNJ, Ty Farnsworth, Beesman, Mario Murray, EJ, Willow Button, Julia Kendall, Jonny Ceriani, Mary Frances Angelini, Emma Sheiman, Matthew Foley, Candide, Joseph Jones, Christine Denny, Nicholas Willey, Julien Dubois, Leland, Max Kingdom, Tricia Brady, Julian Messner, LiK, Simen Dalstein, Scott Maraldo, Shelley J, April Cote, Karen Wennerlind, Nathan Drumm, Lauren Peterson, Martin Sjöstrand, Mae, Matt (Man of War) Rubin, Kristen H, King of Imps, Minerva Gale, Eric Nelson, Michiel Venema, Kate, Stephen Smith. Brandie Roberts, Denny Chou, Justice Noori, Kendra Summers, reed m, Samuel Sabo, The Bog Queen, Zac Nadeau, Brynlin321, Commander Ray, Czterysta Czterdziescicztery, Mayra Lawson, Tazter, Catalina Suazo, Grant Basma Horsnell, Jarod Price, Lola Roebuck, Luke weinberg, Mark P, Naberios, Nate Davis, Nicole Stewart, Norse Sultan, Rasler, Rose, Steven Spaulding and Your Last Great kNight
Affiliate Links - (buying books from our Bookshop.org shop supports this channel and local bookshops at no extra cost to you.)
Books for fans of Lord of the Rings:
uk.bookshop.org/lists/lord-of...
Other books we love:
uk.bookshop.org/shop/indeepgeek
Thanks for watching! (All pictures are used under fair use copyright laws. If any credits are missing or incorrect, please PM me for a credit!) - Zábava
I've already watched 8 minutes on Bill the Pony. I can't skip this one.
Hahahha! Well said. That video changed my life. All Hail Bill. Lord of Ponies.
@@ikenosis8160🫡 🐎
Fantastic.
We-us-or the guys at the Prancing Pony Podcast… or perhaps one of Tolkien’s relatives out to write a heroic extra-enchanted deep personal story line for Bill. Fabio-level fan fiction. Like, we should make him greater than the king of the eagles, and he could have a secret love with Shadowfax. We should do this. 😊😂 just keep Amazon away from our project
That Balrog is lucky that Bill the Pony didn't get through the West Gate with the Fellowship.
"Let me risk a little more light..."
One of the most powerful moments of the LotR movies is when the Fellowship enters the Dwarrowdelf and Gandalf gives them just hint of how great the Hall was. The combination of imagery and Howard Shore's masterful score is perfect.
The greatest depiction of the grandeur of Moria can be found in LOTRO
Its my favourite moment, and music piece. Just the gravity of it. Everyone is stunned, even Gimli, and he's seen Erebor restored.
Always made me want to see it before Durin VI's time.
@jackpowell9276 Gimli is more awed than the rest.
I love it
I think you raised a fair point by saying that the dwarves are not to blame for awaking the balrog. Indeed they did what dwarves do. It's no stranger that for a hobbit to have second breakfast.
Hobbiton, you fear to go into that shire, the Hobbits devoured too greedily, and too often. You know what they awoke at the tables of Westfarthing. Shadow and Flame!
In a way, yes. But let's not forget about the seven rings of power. While it's said that the rings given to the seven kings of the Dwarves couldn't dominate and enslave them, they did make them really, really greedy. And that's clearly a thing Tolkien hated. Greed for power and wealth is essentially the ultimate sin in Tolkiens works. And this greed caused the Dwarves to get exiled from both Moria and Erebor. And Durin's folk isn't the only kingdom of the Dwarves with that problem; four of the seven rings get destroyed by dragon fire.
So... I think Tolkien clearly meant to say that the Dwarves are at least to blame for taking the rings and using them to accommodate absurd wealth.
@@Nickname-hier-einfuegen Rings of power made dwarves more hungry for treasures, but most dwarves were like that even without them. Remember Thorin and his desire for Arcikam - the "heart of the Lonely mountain". It is safe to assume that rings have no direct bad influence over dwarfes - at best they served as a driving force and additional motivators, but there were no wars between dwarven clans based on them, not dwarves invaded outer world for its riches based on "extensive greed" etc.
Even destruction of such civilisation came by external forces - in Moria from Balrog (who t.f. could have expected THAT to be down there?!) and Lonely mountain was pillaged by a dragon who heard of great wealth.
There were effects on some of the rulers (bad sleep, too treasure-dependent), but overall it had much lesser impact compared to rings given to race of men.
____
Side note - Gandalf+Balrog are using "eternal staircase" to escape from bases of mountains to the highest peak of Moria. If you remember, down there was the soulcrushing-cold water basin where old nameless creatures from the bring of time dwelled -> creatures lie, for example, the "watcher". Yet dwarves were able to get down there and BUILD A FRICKIN SOLID STAIRCASE in the process, only to find out there is nothing to mine down there and no way of continuing, so they abandoned it afterwards. Digging "too deep and too greedily" is hardly a case for awakening Balrog to be honest. Because those tough buggers were able to deal with really nasty creatures (to defeat them or at least prevent them from swarming their home through their own-built corridors).
And that is a feat of itself!
I think Tolkein's subtle implication is that their greed (both innate and from the rings) did cause their downfall, albeit indirectly. The problem wasn't that they were digging and accumulating wealth; it's that they began to do it to the exclusion of all else.
For example, if the dwarves dug more slowly and were more well-rounded in their pursuits, then perhaps one dwarf would have developed a deep-enough interest in history and magical lore to discern that a belrog might be deep beneath the mountain. Or, perhaps an actual dwarf who did have those interests would have had enough time to work it out. Or, perhaps a dwarf who did work it out and raise concerns would have been heeded.
In short, the dwarves may have forsaken their epistemic and civil responsibilities in a myopic pursuit of wealth.
@@mvmlego1212I tend to agree. Hot take, if the Balrog attacked one of the gates, it very well may have been slain. But it came from within, places that in their hasty greed would have not been guarded at all.
Caution and prep for the unknown depths might have even saved them as well, but the ring smothered all but their innate greed.
The Elves are quick to point out the greed that drove the Dwarves into digging all the way down to the Balrog. But seemingly even quicker to forget that they had a kingdom of their own that greatly benefitted from the digging.
Celeborn likes to blame the Dwarves for what happened, but comfortably rules a realm that can only exist in its current form because of the friendship between Khazad-Dum and Eregion, which made the forging of Nenya possible. Galadriel's memory seems to be better in that regard, maybe because she's wearing this ring, made of mithril, at all times.
It's like the straw that broke the camels back for Celeborn. I think it likely he was in Doriath when the dwarves killed Thingol, and he hasn't forgotten it. Also, Galadriel is Noldo. They have always had more of an affinity with the dwarves, as fellow craftsmen and apprentices of Aulë.
Propagandelves
The Elves also like to judge the Men for their power hungry foolishness while happily forgetting the atrocities committed by Feanor and his stupid sons.
The elves have always been sanctimonious hypocrites. They are lucky they’re daddy Eru’s favorite, because otherwise they’d never have lasted.
there was ocasions before that the elfs and dwarf did clash, the most famous would be the killing of Thingol and the fall of his realm afther this since his wife was not able to hold up the veil defending their realm alone. that was one of the most important of the realms of the elf at the time because a lot of the realms had falled to morgaths orcs and other monsters. there was also a dwarf that betrayed an important human that was a elf friend if i remember correctly that was quite important in one of the 3 old human houses and probably some other events. also thingol was an realy importent character for the elfs beeing 1 of the 3 that was the first to see valinor before morgoths first fall but was later ensnared by the singing of a maia that would be his wife later on (you can read the storys in question in the silmarillion, its worth a read but be warned that its not a easy book to read)
@@stingerjohnny9951Actually, Fëanor and his sons weren't liked among the other Noldor. Galadriel didn't like Fëanor and he was her uncle. Especially after the Doom of Mandos, Fëanor and his sons were basically on their own except for their followers.
Imagine having lived there in its glory days, then having to see it crawling with orcs in later years, would have been terrible😢
The balrog being the icing on the cake..
Reminds me of modern day America and Europe
@@drugsmadillai know what u mean.
I don't know how much time you dedicate per video to add the closing remarks about the topic, but I have to say that out of all the channels I follow that talk about Tolkien, you are far and above the best at it. I would go as far as saying that, when it comes to video-essays, you are the best of the channels I follow!
It's something that I have noticed for a while now, but never found a way to make a comment about it that was relevant to the video at hand, so I am not trying anymore.
I second that statement
Just call them videos. He's not writing essays and getting graded on them in school.
@@jarlwhiterun7478 there are many kinds of ways of making videos and video-essays are just a specific kind. Why would I not specify it when that’s the kind I’m talking about?
And essays are primarily not for school. Wether you have written one after finishing school or not has nothing to do with that.
Khazad-Dum having a greater Dwarf Hord than Erebor is Mind Blowing
Well, it has been around longer after all
Robert, thank you for continuing to add Tolkien content-it is always a pleasure to spend a bit of time listening to your "deep geek" thoroughness!
Greetings from Sweden!
I once again read the Lord of the Rings, and during the part where the Hobbits visit Tom Bombadil, I noticed how Tolkien placed a special weight in songs, and how when they were happy, they also often sang songs. As if there was a clear connection between being singing and being happy.
Also, during the Hobbit after the Dwarfs sang the song, Bilbo felt a great desire to get out of the Shire and "see the Mountains".
Elves have a special connection to songs too. Always when Elves are seen walking towards the Grey Havens they are also singing. Additionally during the several tkmes visiting Rivendell, there was always some song that was sung.
Tolkien seems to have a very special relation with songs and clearly places a specifik emphasis on their effect. There's loads to unpack here!
Before recorded music we in this middle earth would sing a lot more too. In many ways we're lesser than our ancestors listen to sterile machine generated music rather than participating in it with our community.
One could argue that the Ring of Power held by the king of Khazad-dûm helped make the Dwarves so greedy for treasure than they would have otherwise been that it, in a manner of speaking, led to them awakening Durin's Bane. This would be similar to the way the hoards in another Dwarven kingdoms attracted the unwanted attentions of Dragons, with disastrous results for the Dwarves there. Of course, the Dwarves still had no way of knowing there was a Balrog hiding deep in their mines.
I thought the dwarves never actually used their rings though? Like didn't they just throw them into special vaults along with their other treasures?
@@Joe_Potts I never read anything like that. Sauron's whole plan for the Rings of Power was to control the wearers through the One Ring. That didn't work out as he had hoped with the Dwarves but I'm sure he gave the Rings with the intent of them being worn. In particular, Thrór had his ring with him when Smaug drove the Dwarves from Erebor and he passed it to his son Thráin, who was eventually captured by Sauron who took the Ring back.
@@istari0 i'll have to look back into the details, see where i got that idea then lol. sorry
I like that you weave in screenshots from LOTRO into many of your videos. Having played that game since beta in 2007, it gives me a sense of familiarity and intimacy as I enjoy your insightful comments.
"...Until the world grew old..." If our world is not yet old, perhaps they are in Khazadum still under some weathered and eroded and unrecognizable ancient mountain range.
Neanderthals or Denisovans? A fun thought I must admit.
Well, Arda isn't meant to actually be our world. Though that was the initial idea, right? To make a mythology of Earth that Tolkien felt England lacked? I do like to muse on that idea sometimes, like "what if Lord of the Rings was our actual past?" and how to connect the dots to more recent history.
The title of "Durin" fascinates me. The prophecy that they will only be six Durin's implies that after the last, the Dwarves will fall. But, it's a mighty proclamation for a dwarven ruler to "style" themselves as Durin. Would some Durins be retroactively disavowed? Really interesting thought experiment.
Edit* wait, there's a 7th Durin? Oops.
According to the last of Tolkien's writings, the Dwarves actually preserved the body of Durin and periodically his spirit would be reborn into it. Earlier versions have a different tale but in none of them does a Dwarven ruler get to proclaim himself Durin.
Unfortunately, we know very little about these details, because all we have are a few of his unpublished notes. But yeah. "Durin" is not a title. Either he gets reborn in a new body or his body awakes to new life. Whatever it is, it happens 7 times during their history, and then their race "fails".
@@Nickname-hier-einfuegen thank you for the explanation. I wonder if the dwarves have a litmus test for reincarnated Durin's. Having a similar system not divinely determined would make for an interesting civilization in another work of fiction.
So… did the dwarves ever write a thank you note to Gandalf for his work in defeating Durin’s bane and freeing their homeland?
The one, and only one singular thing I enjoyed about RoP. Their depiction of Khazad-Dum in it's hay-day. I think they did a great job visually with this.
Nice content to close the day with
Although I consider mayself a fan of LotR, having read many books and watched all the movies (I even find the Hobitt triology entertaining enough), I decided to reread the books for the first time since the 70s. Just finnished the Moria chapters.
Which is where Stalag 17 comes in. In that movie, they take the time to show had the prisoners hid the dirt when the excavated the tunnels. They had to move a lot of dirt.
Which got me thinking. Moria was HUGE. Where did the dwarves pile all the dirt and rock they excavated to make those caverns? I live in the Calif Gold Rush country. There's very large piles of rocks here just from miners working the river. As much as the dwarves dug out, the refuse pile must have been as large as the mountain itself.
Silly question I know, but it's a rainy day and enquiring minds want to know.
pretty rock all that extra rock and sand had other uses
i absolutely love that image at 1:50. It's the first time I see a dwarven city depicted with greenery and lights. Very refreshing, and probably accurate. I'm fascinated by dwarven underground kingdoms in part because I can't quite fathom how it all works out. How do you actually build it? Where are the houses? How are they arranged? Do they have streets? Do they have sunlight? Do they farm? This picture made it a little easier to grasp for some reason.
Play some Dwarf Fortress and you can figure that out for yourself :P
I believe it's actually a screenshot from Rings of Power, the amazon tv show. The story writing may have been atrocious, but at least the visuals were amazing, and in some ways even make up for it.
Also thanks for clearing up that bit about “digging too greedily” that also never sat well with me as it implied that the dwarves were somehow careless a😊
I've been obsessed with the history of Arda and the Balrogs lately. This is perfect!
The changes made in The Hobbit movies around the War of the Dwarves and Orcs were probably the biggest mistake in my opinion...
I fully agree. While it does make the films interesting, it does ruin the legitimacy of the story.
I´d like to recommend to every viewer of this video to check out "Song of Durin" by Clamavi di Profundis. Beautiful recap of this
AGREED!
Also, Far Over the Misty Mountains Cold (Complete Edition) is amazing. Over 20 minutes of pure Dwarven Song!
What I never quite understand is why the race of Dwarves eventually "failed" in the 4th Age. They survived wars, dragons, balrogs and then got their homeland back. Ok I understand that the story has to end that way, but of all the races it seems odd that they didn't continue with Men.
My best guess is that they dived to deep into the earth’s depths. They eventually cut themselves off from the surface world. When a tragedy like a plague did strike they had no one to turn to for help. Perhaps the younger dwarf generations didn’t even know how to get to the surface.
I think it has to do with the world growing old. It all started with Melkor corrupting Arda right at its creation, causing all magic to slowly but surely to drain from the world. Thats why elves at some point couldnt exist outside of Valinor. Only with a ring of power could that process be stopped for some time (like Galadriel or Elendil did). When they lost their power, after the One rings destruction, the elves had to finally leave or become shadows (simplified). Now with the dwarfes the process took longer but my guess is that they also couldnt adapt to a world without magic. Only humans remained at the end in Middle Earth, of the old races all but legends remaining, until they too die in a Ragnarok like event, planting the seed for a new world, more perfect than Arda and the goal, Illuvatar was working towards.
@@Daniel-rd6st - I assume you mean Elrond and not Elendil, though?
@@mokarokas-1727 Oh yes i did 🙂
6:50 So basically, they were just mining their own business 😜
Fantastic - thanks so much Robert. I’ve been a fan of the book and the films for 50yrs and find the depth of knowledge of the characters and back story truly phenomenal, particularly yours. I picked up, on this occasion, your reference to the equality in terms of power between the Balrog and Gandalf and that both died in their epic battle - Gandalf did not defeat the Balrog as perhaps is some times lazily assumed but Gandalf too died but is Resurrected to play an even greater role in the titanic struggle that is to follow. I sort of knew this all along but it was nice to hear Robert spell it out - it makes perfect sense.🙏
Also, I was curious about the etymology of Kazad Dum. Babylon 5 had it as the homeworld of the Shadows. I wonder if they just stole it.
Well, they did respell it as: Z'ha'dum
Khazad-dûm means "Dwarves' delving" in Tolkien's invented dwarf language Khuzdul which is a language isolate in Middle Earth without any known related languages. Perhaps one of the Babylon 5 writers is a dwarf.
"If you go to Z'ha'dum, you will die." Kosh.
"I will follow your lead now-- if this last warning does not move you. It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!"
The similarities between Babylon 5 and LOTR are many. It's no wonder I loved both.
@@eljanrimsa5843 - Yes, the on-line Encyclopedia of Arda gives "Dwarrowdelf" as a Westron/English "translation" of "Khazad-dûm.
And who dwelled in Z'ha'dum? *Lorien*. I'd call it more like an homage.
You know you've got a great city when it can be constructed near the dawn of time, and survive until the very breaking of the world, with just a few hundred years of darkness to blight it's great story.
It survived well past the breaking of the World (either the end of the First Age or the end of the Second).
@@dandiehm8414 Sorry, I meant the Dagor Dagorath.
@@Omashu2425 - I didn't think the Dagor Dagorath had happened yet.
@@earlwajenberg733 It hasn't. It's the end of the world. I'm saying Khazad-Dum will survive from the world's beginning to its end.
@@Omashu2425 Ah, so it's still out there, under there, somewhere. I see.
What always struck me as odd is the Balrog only fled at the end of the First Age when Moria was already long established. So what, did it sneak in the front gate or did it dive into a cave system nowhere near the mountain and slowly burrow under it. You can't exactly claim they dug too deep when the city long predates the War of Wrath. One could argue if they bumped into a nameless thing as Gandalf describes at the foundations of the earth that would be an act of hubris. But the balrog is the new newcomer not the dwarves.
Perhaps it came in from where it fought gandalf?
@@christiangraff5236 But they only escaped there by going up through the mountain again. So yeah it had to have burrowed into the earth somewhere away from the mountain initially. Cause I mean Moria is a full staffed armored fortress city it wouldn’t go unnoticed.
Well maybe it hid in a part of the mountainrange, that wasnt yet colonized by the dwarfes, so the city may have simply grown above him. Or maybe it just teleported to the safest spot it could find in a hurry, after all we dont really know what Maiar are cabable of.
I think it was within the foundations of earth it fled to which is under Moria. And it wasn’t until they dig deep enough that they discovered the balrog. It’s basically where the nameless things and all the other monsters of middle earth live and where the balrog was able to remain hidden for so long.
Wonderfully told and edited, Robert!
One might speculate that it was the presence of the Balrog, buried under the mountains since the end of the first age, that was responsible for the unusual mineral deposits found beneath cruel Caradhras.
I believe so too. There is a hint that the veins of truesilver arced deeper beneath Caradhras and that the Balrog was at the end. Note also that Caradhras has been known as "the cruel mountain" for millennia, which makes me think the Balrog influenced events on the peak, even if it was not deliberate.
I disagree. If a Balrog (a Maia) could make Mithril, then Sauron (a vastly more powerful Maia) who coveted Mithril and told his Orcs to search and capture all of it, would have just made it himself.
I always forget how horrifying even the smallest goblin is close up (8:00), gave me a bit of a shock.
Same!! I had my phone right at my face haha 🤣😅
I want to point out that the dwarves were in moria BEFORE the balrog
I never even thought about that. Was it really established before the war with Morgoth's balrogs? One must wonder how it got down there, then!
What if the ring lead them to the balrog? Sauron looking to get a “general” to work with the witch king?
Sauron already knew about the Balrog as many of the orcs in Moria were sent there by him. On the other hand, Durin's Bane had been hiding in the depths long before the Rings of Power were created so he knew nothing about what they were.
I wonder if the ring woke it - it slept down there with the dwarves digging just over it just fine til a bit of Sauron started swinging around there. Less a matter of digging too deep and more a matter of digging to a routine depth and smacking Cymbals of Evil around the neighbor's bedroom.
@@jeffengel2607 When the Dwarves ran into the Balrog, the One Ring was still lost in the Anduin, quite some distance from Khazad-dûm
@@istari0 I had in mind the dwarven ring for the Balrog's wake-up.
THANK YOU GOD THANK YOU IN DEEP GEEK MY PATIENCE HAS BEEN REWARDED.
For some weird reason I cannot understand, I have such a profound calling and nostalgic feeling for Khazad Dum. Every time I see the Halls, it’s like seeing an old house you used to live in.
Listening to this one while working out 😊
Really loved this one. Well done!
Thank you Robert. Much appreciated.
They should have added that Dwarf Mountain roller-coaster I suggested...they would still be here today.
Excellent. As always.
8:25 the dwarves: and I took that personally
One of the only good things to come from the new mtg lotr set is Balin's Tomb. Looks amazing.
"They could once more mine and craft..." I see what you did there.
"In Moria, in Khazad-dum" Lovely video, I have such a soft spot for the dwarves - the poem Gimli recites is probably my favourite in LotR, especially as delivered by Douglas Livingstone in the BBC Radio drama.
Nice work dude thanks
Great video!
Summary: everything was great… *AND SO IT CAME TO PASS-*
Thanks for clearing up difference between Moria and Khazad-Dum. I wondered why they kept using both.
What a beautiful video ☺🙌
Yes, really enjoyed the bill one, nice to have something a little random
It would be pretty awesome to visit Khazad-dum in the age when elves were friends of dwarves. What a magnificent, cosmopolitan place that would be. I can imagine haggling in the marketplace, or the privilege of becoming an apprentice to a dwarven craftsman. 😊
What happened to the Balrog's spirit after dying?
Possibly the same thing as Saruman's?🤷♂️
Either out to the void or sent to the halls of Mandos for “re-education”.😮
I mean this in the best way as it's an ace video: "Huh what were the dwarves doing for like 6000 years?" "Oh ya know, dwarf stuff."
I'm pretty sure I knew all about moria, but still chose to watch this for your voice 👏
Why was Gimli surprised by what he found in the mines if it had been like that for hundreds of years?
After the events of The Hobbit, Balin (who is a cousin of Gimli) leads an expedition to reclaim Moria. They don't really expect a large resistance, because it's said that the Orcs left for Mordor. And they don't know that "Durin's Bane" is still in Moria. (Nobody had seen that thing for ~1,000 years.)
When the fellowship decides to enter Moria (a few years after Balin's expedition), Gandalf is the only one who fears that the expedition failed, because he suspects that the Balorg is still there. Gandalf doesn't explain himself, though. He just says, he don't want to go through Moria, but there's no other choice.
Gimli however assumes that Balin reclaimed Moria a few years ago, cleaned up the whole place, was probably joined by other Dwarves in the meantime, and they will all have a great family reunion party in their old home.
Turns out, Balin's expedition was initially successful, but then the Balrog took notice and everyone was slaughtered.
@@Nickname-hier-einfuegen Let me correct few details. After Balins expedition, there are more then "few years". Just count with me - Bilbo set of in age of 50 from Hobbiton, returning in his 51st year of life. He celebrates his 111th birthdays when Frodo reaches adulthood (33) and Frodo sets of to Rivendell aged 52 iirc. That is almost 80 years between retaking Erebor and FotR. Balin´s expedition left around 55 years after retaking of Erebor. So there is around 25 years long gap.
To be fair, the gap is even shorter. It is said in the books that "at first good news were coming back", probably even for a few years. Then all communication stopped. But no message was ever received about war, fights, isolation, orc attacks ... anything. Just "radio silence". And it has been like that for about 2 decades at least.
It is a side-quest of its own why Gimli came to Rivendell, btw. Main reason were Sauron´s offer and search for the Ring found by Bilbo (news has reached Mordor by this point), so they wanted to warn elves and Bilbo this way as well (as he haven´t been their way for some time). But Gimli also went there to ask if anyone knows something about Moria and Balin´s party, as orcs were swarming mountains and forests again and it was not safe to travel. But Moria was a fortress that could and did stand on its own for thousands of years. Sadly, no news were there for Gimli.
And I am not even sure that Balrog was involved in ending of Balin´s (short lived) kingdom. There is no record about him in the Book of Mazarbul, either. Only about orcs and drums. No shadow, no flame, no "demon". And I would suppose dwarves would mention such type of creature in their battle records, especially if those are the last words they will ever be able write.
The thing that drove out Balrog to go against the Fellowship was - ironically - Gandalf himself. Remember; Gandalf is a powerfull being. He can battle on long distances with Sauron, can perform battle of wills, he can even summon a Shadowfax from an opposing side of Middle earth telepathically so he comes for him. It is only reasonable to suppose that Maiar can sense powerfull auras of each other (besides other things). And the Balrog was basically defending "his eternal lair" against a powerfull invader (something he didn´t need to do against relatively small group of dwarves, cause he doesn´t care that much). That is why, when orcs were awaken and were going after the Fellowship, Balrog himself joined his worshippers/minions and went after Gandalf personally. And was winning initially, btw (Gandalf was defeated when holding a magic barrier of backdoors to Mazarbul in the book).
Last piece of a puzzle - after the great battle in front of gates of Moria, "Durin´s bane" is seen standing in the gates of Moria and that is what prevents dwarves in tries to reclaim it, they realised they had no chance. So they won against orcs and Balrog´s worshippers, but couldn´t go further. But when Balin reaches Moria and they start clearing it, no signs of Durin´s bane presence were ever found. Due to (very!) limited knowledge about Bane´s true nature and background, they could have simply assumed it died/moved out inbetween. After all, this was the last Balrog in the whole Middle Earth. Or used to be? They could have never been sure, as proving nonexistence of something is pretty hard. And again - no news about such creature (or bad news in total) came back to Erebor in first years.
So yes, while Gandalf was afraid of bad end to Balin´s attempt, he wasn´t sure as he as well had no news in that regard. And Gimli was optimistic.
Only when they entered and saw mixed corpses of orcs and dwarves behind (now destroyed) Western gate of Moria, it was clear that something is wrong - dwarves would never left their fellows bodies to rot side by side with orcs. Those corpses left there therefore meant that either
a) nobody knew about this group and weren´t looking for it in a long time = dwarves are too thin in count or too scattered in Moria (bad news as well)
b) there is noone left to arrange for a burial despite knowing about group travelling this way
The latter was the case. Desperate attempt of dwarves was made to escape through "back doors" when defenses were crumbling - they sent out Oin to find and examine the path to western gate. Only four dwarves returned with bad news.
"We still hold the chamber but hope is fading now. Óin's party went five days ago but today only four returned. The pool is up to the wall at West-gate. The Watcher in the Water took Óin - we cannot get out." is stated in book of Mazarbul.
At that point the last hope failed. Noone could get out, noone could get the news to any living friendly being outside of Moria. Dwarves were trapped inside their largest settlement and masacred to the last.
One more thing I'd like to add: as was pointed out the balrog was spotted after the battle outside the gates of Moria, which is not 1000 years before Lord of the Rings, but more like 100-130. There were dwarves that took part in that battle that were still alive during Lord of the Rings. Even so it was of course a fair assumption by Balin that it might not be there anymore.
Didn’t they lose the mines for just as long to the orcs?
Best channel on the best race of the best story.
“and they took that personally”
Great video congratulations
I can only assume Babylon 5's Shadow homeworld, Z'ha'dum draws its inspiration from Khazad-Dum. A long lost and ancient city buried deep under ground, guarded by unspeakable horrors.
Good video Robert
What i find really amazing is Glorfindel also dueled a balrog to the death , killing it and dying in the process, and was allowed to return to middle earth.
Engagement comment for the algorithm 😁 Thank you for the video. It was fun.
I am so happy to see LOTR Online scenery for the example!
Massive seams of Mithril running like a river through the roots of the mountain range would motivate any Dwarf
Thanks to Amazon, it's now Khazad Dayamn: city of dwarfversity, elfquity and goblinclusion.
I think, with that quote about them fading, that their end is quite a sad one. Men keep living, and they inherit all of Middle Earth as magic fades from it, but dwarves just go extinct? That's awfully sad, especially knowing they weren't made by Eru Illuvatar - like they were always second-class citizens of their own world, in a way.
8:08 sweet art
I know what happened to Bill the Pony...a popular wrestler said it best: "Can you smell what the rock is cooking?"
Ok so if a balrog was so powerful it wiped out the greatest dwarf nation by itself and Gandalf was as strong as one why doesn’t Gandalf just whoop ass through the movies.
Because he was forbidden to do to much. The fate of the mortals were to be in their hands, the Valar had already stepped into the affairs of the world to many times in the past. If men were to inherit the world they would need to prove they can protect it with them.
Between Glorfindel and Gandalf i think it’s safe to say that Balrogs drop a +1up when they die.
Love the videos. Does anyone know the artist of the map at 2:26?
Why did it take only one balrog to take down Khazad-Dum, but a whole army and multiple balrogs to take down that ancient elvish hidden city. Didn’t dwarves slay dragons in the first age?
The golden days of Moria must have been a sight to behold.
More than anything else I want a full 3d map of kazad dum
How did Gimli not know about all of this when he suggested going to Moria?
Perhaps his overwhelming desire to see his fabled ancestral home trumped his fear and common sense. After all, Gandalf was also in favor of going that way, but gave in to Aragorn's foreboding.
The dwarves didn’t receive any sign of life from Moria for quite some time since Balin his company settled there
@@shitdegekk That's what I figure, which makes me wonder why he and other dwarves would assume all is well down there. They know of the orcs and balrog, yet Gimli's tone came off like nothing could be amiss having heard nothing of Balin
That was only in the movies. In the books, Gimli was not in favor of going through Moria. Indeed, the presence of Dwarves at the Council of Elrond was, among other things, due to not having heard from Balin's colony in Moria for quite some time. As best I can tell, no one knew the creature in Moria was a Balrog until Gandalf realized it.
@@istari0well...Legolas recognized it
The dwarves eventually failed? What a sad thought...
Oh, well. Thanks for posting! 👍👍
:-) Gandalf basically claimed a boss to himself to get all the xp and level up :-)
I've had a problem about an element of this story starting with my first read way back in 1968. The Dwarves pull into isolation for literally thousands of years. What did they eat?
Do you have any audio books??
oh so they chose a cave with one door in and one narrow bridge for defense? Since you mentioned in another video that they did traded for food... I wonder how long they could last with their supplies under the siege with most basic tactics :)
10:81 Gandalf: biggest G in Middle Earth
Everyone seems to skip over the scale of the place. Even Robert, though he mentions it, doesn't give any real context. It was over 40 miles from east to west (and nobody knows how far north and south it went. The mountain range runs north to south, so it may have been longer than 40 miles in those directions!) 40 miles in a straight line is larger than current day New York City. Imagine being set down in one corner of NYC, being blindfolded, and then being told to make your way to the other end of NYC, but you have to go up seven flights of stairs at the right point, with Orcs and a Balrog to deal with. That is what the Fellowship had to contend with.
It makes me wonder if any depiction really got it right. Was it all really an enormous continuous city, or was it more like long cave roads between urban areas? Some kind of farmlands and pastures/hunting grounds, or what did they live off of that they didn't trade for? Of course they did live there for thousands of years so the scale is not impossible, but still.
If there's one thing I've learned from all your videos it's that the dwarves aren't very good at holding on to any of their settlements
I agree about "too greedily and too deep". Very "benefit of hindsight". They were miners, not hunter gatherers. Difficult to imagine humans delving less, and without the beautifying efforts.
But I also have doubts about the Balrog being out of the league of all but Gandalf. It kind of denies the history of Glorfindel, and who did he have to help him, and what less success did he have? Even in Glorfindel's later and more powerful incarnation, he was sent out because he could stand against The Nine, a task Gandalf and Aragorn did more or less equally between them. Had Gandalf not been with the company, they would have faced the Balrog together, and had it been Tolkien's narrative intention, they might have succeeded.
I would like to hear an explanation of the Dead Marshes.
Come for Bill the pony, stay for the history of Khazad-Dum.
They need to do a trilogy (film/movie) on the dwarves as they were battling elsewhere during the lotr's.
I always wanted to know Thranduiels’ story. Or the story between Gandalf and Thrains’ friendship. Or Gandalf and Lady Arwen. I know I didn’t spell those right.
"and the Dwarves took that personally" Oh boy, understatement of the age 🤣
The mines are no place for a pony. Even one as brave as Bill.
And they call it a mine. A MINE!
Imagine the cleanup after centuries of Balrog/Orc occupation :D
This video raises a question for me.. how did Balin and his company or Gimli not know there was a balrog in Moria? There were surely dwarves that actually saw it that survived.. why wouldn't they have spread the word?
I suppose by the time Balin decided to reclaim Khazad-Dum "Durin's Bane" had passed into a sort of legend or a curse for many dwarves as the fall of the city happened a thousand years before, Balin who fought at the Battle of Azanulbizar alongside Thrain and Thorin just had in mind the orcs as the main threat.
How did the Dwarves of Khaza-Dum create enough food to survive inside the mountain ?
..gold for food.
Gandalf's depowered when he was in Moria but the Balrog still gets the "L"
I completely understand how they felt when I was playing Minecraft I also dug too deep and I unleashed a terrible monster
How did this great city of dwarves feed the population? The only way in and out were two relatively small gates? Feeding those hundreds of thousands of dwarves? And once the gates were closed, they didn't even have those routes for incoming supplies.
So how come they didnt starve?
Indoor gardens? Mushrooms? Boars to make mulch and methane? Calamari from Kraken offspring? Stray orcs that Tolkien didn't feel were required to be expounded upon in the narrative?
It is said the Blue Wizards went East..
Hmmm..
i wonder if gandalf would have been able to survive the fight if he was well rested before it. if i remember correctly from the book he says, "one of morgoths balrog, and i am already weary" or "tierd" (it was something like that if i remember correcrl) if im not wrong that could indicate he was drained or tierd when he faced the balrog and not at his full current strength at the time (if i remember correctly the 5 maia who gandalf was a part of had their power lowerd or restricted in some way when getting sent over to the middle earth from valinor be manwe but i could remember that wrong since there is a while since i last read the silarillion, the different works featuring the 5 maias where we learn more about their story and quest and the lord of the rings
If one could figure out exactly how to tell accurately the cronilogical history of Middle Earth it would make for a great movie...The History of Middle Earth...until that time, you do an Awesome and Entertaining version.
I would be impossible to fit inside one single movie, though. If made into a TV series it would have to rival something like Star Trek in length. lol
Didn’t the Balrog awaken sometime around when Sauron started moving again in the Third Age? It’s been a minute since I’ve looked at the chronology.
@9:05 Dafuq is up with Gandalf's eyes?! 🤣😆🤣😆🤣