The History of Mirkwood
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- čas přidán 13. 08. 2023
- In Deep Geek - Insight and intelligent discussion on Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, The Witcher and more.
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I always thought Thranduil was just a jerk but now I believe he had severe PTSD.
yeah, can't even stand to look in the direction the battle happened? boy is traumatized something terrible lol. also seems to have pretty bad anxiety with an avoidant conflict style
Yea true that. Makes me wonder did Tolkien see this happening as well to people he knew that served in the world war.
@@rhyswong8976 Tolkien's writing was so heavily influenced by what he saw during the war, I can't imagine it wasn't the inspiration. Everything from lembas bread's "it'll keep ya marchin' on" feels, to Thranduil's clear case of shellshock, just makes me think of how desperately Tolkien - and so many other young men of his era - was shaped by the things they saw during that conflict.
The ability to integrate The hobbit’s story into Middle Earth. Which, was how much more serious world than the one proposed in The Hobbit originally, is something I always valued Tolkien for. Transitioning from whimsical, elves and spiders to Legolas and Dol Guldur in the same forest is a msaterpiece
I just adore Tolkien 💜💜💜
That’s some good world building right there I’ll tell you what
No easy task for any author, but if you can pull it off, it really helps the world feel real. Our world runs the same gamut, after all, from whimsical to deadly-serious and everything in between.
I feel like that separation is a major thing the Hobbit movies got wrong - trying to make it too serious and overly connected to the rest of the LOTR universe.
I think part of Thranduill’s character was inspired by the appeasement policies in the 1930s leading up to WW2. It has a similar theme of leaders wanting to avoid war at any cost after the horrors of a massive war.
TBF, Chamberlain's policies bought Britain the time needed to raise its readiness for war, much like how Thranduil keeping the sylvan elves out of confrontations left them with the strength to keep the front open, providing another distraction for Sauron's eyes.
That would be very unlike the attitude of Tolkien avoiding allegory. I think Thranduil’s character of wanting to avoid war is just that Tolkien disliked war because of personal experience. Thranduil was a responsible elf king that was just acting logical in Tolkien's view.
Thranduil do have uncanny Chamberlain eyebrows though.
@@rursus8354 inspiration =/= allegory
@@rursus8354 they're not saying it's allegory, they're saying it's clearly inspired by it - possibly even without Tolkien's intention.
Robert - your LOTR content and delivery is exceptional. The tone, timing, and timbre of your voice are unique - you could / should do voiceovers & audio books professionally. Your delivery is so pleasantly listenable, people would eagerly take your advice even if you said one plus one was anything but two; or that one’s credit score has absolutely no impact upon one’s ability to obtain a mortgage or finance an automobile purchase. Your content reminds me of my brother who passed away last year (he was a few years older and would discuss / explain Tolkien’s world in the 1980’s when we were young; he had a photographic memory &.could read a book in a day or two, and recollect detail and often even word for word). God bless you my friend. 👊
i agree, your delivery is exceptional Robert. Thank you for making this content.
Robert already has an audiobook channel on CZcams called The Well Told Tale.
I thought this was going to be an interesting but idle history to take in but the story of Mirkwood somehow ties together so many threads in the main story. Fantastic video
Not ildy do the leaves(pages)of Tolkien fall.
To put it in a rather pedestrian manner, Thranduil sucked as a king. PTSD from his last battle not withstanding. Great video, Robert.
Sometimes, the simplest description fits.
Couldn't even keep gollum safely incarcerated.
No king rules without his subjects' consent (if their dis-consent reaches a high-enough threshold, there's war and you kick out the king and his supporters). That's why all/most of the Mirkwood elves were cowards.
More like Fanduel
his people are only as sucky as he is. only a group of people utterly complacent and fearful would allow or tolerate thranduil to rule the way he did, especially for literal millennia. they lived in despotic isolation, arrogant and decadent despite their homeland literally getting shit on all around them. the North Korea of Middle Earth.
“Why me, why now?” Everyone wants to live in peace and cross their fingers that the darkness has passed
“Let’s not forget how quickly things returned to light and life afterward… Nature and light and hope did prevail.”
A message which is as beautiful as it is vital. We must always bear it in our hearts. The shadow will not endure!
Wonderful work, Robert! Thank you for all of your efforts over the years. Your videos have brought me immense joy. Looking forward to all those to come. Cheers!
The natural order is chaos and entropy
Tolkien’s ability to weave real mythological terms for Norse legends and places always makes his creation feel like it could have existed, perhaps in a dark age that became lost to time.
Thanks for telling these stories, Robert. I find them very soothing and interesting to listen to... Sometimes, even the biggest fans find something to learn. I love listening to things I never knew.
Excellent analysis on the lesson that evil is best dealt with quickly. So many opportunities throughout history where that applies.
Some wonderful & interesting life messages contained within Tolkien's stories when you consider them in such detail.
"What was Lord of the Rings like from Murkwood's perspective? What did it know, and when did it know it?"
It does unironically play a bit of a role in TLotR
My first watch of a new In Deep Geek LOTR video in many months. Still as fantastic and engrossing as ever!
Thank you a million times over for this video. The history of Greenwood/Mirkwood, Thranduil, and The Battle Under the Trees are some of my absolute favourite aspects of Tolkien's work. Such an amazing story.
This is the best lore channel on CZcams. Thanx for another great vid, Rob!
I wish England still had a massive deciduous forest somewhere on our island. It saddens me that to experience such a wood i would have to travel, likely by plane, and probably somewhere like Poland, Russia, USA or Canada. Greenwood the Great is my kind of place.
You can get the train to Poland without too much difficulty
@@cynicalpenguinhow across the narrow sea 🤣🤣
@@greyjedi6430 what?
@@cynicalpenguin u can't get a train from England to Poland 🤣🤣🤣
@@greyjedi6430trains go direct from London to either Paris, Amsterdam, or Brussels. Brussels is probably best for a connecting service
An amazing read. I love how timeless this feels.
LOTR is one of these stories one can look forward to getting lost in.
The War of Roth was a sad chapter, indeed, in Van Halen's history.
Better than the haggard years that seen famine
Classic!
I only ever listened to audiobooks and always thought it was the English pronunciation of Wrath??
🤣
Wrath*
I search “the history of Mirkwood” and a video on that subject is up 15 minutes ago.
It must be fate, subscribed 🫡
The hand of Iluvatar!
You won't be disappointed. This is an excellent channel.
Why did the Elves stop making baby Elves?
This one was really enjoyable. Thanks 👍🙂
When you have thousands of years to live, some things take a back seat.
Are you suggesting that they made other types of babies instead?
@@r0bw00d they did sorcery and made elephants
Wow Thranduil dropped the ball with the defense of his kingdom.
Mirkwood was the part of Peter Jackson's rendition that (finally) left a taste that just wouldn't go away the rest of the "trilogy."
Awesome video!
I guess if Hollywood is giving LOTR the "Star Wars" treatment, I guess a movie about the battle of Mirkwood that takes place during the Battle of Pelenor Fields would be cool. Lee Pace is practically the same age as he was in the Hobbit. Would be nice.
That was most enjoyable. Thank you Robert.
I love these inn depth episodes where you can really enjoy and learn the background of the legendarium of Tolkien
I oftentimes end up watching the episode several times because it's just jam-packed whit information that i didn't have any idea of
So thank you for giving me/us all this brilliant background information that makes tha books and films so much mor enjoyable ❤❤❤
Just saying 🇧🇻
I've always loved this part of middle Earth, Greenwood the Great. A love for the forest elves, the Nandor. Spirits of nature, of song and music. If there was any place I'd dreamed to be it was here in the woodland realm. Playing my Harp by the stream in forests of pale green light. In harmony & peace with myself and all things. One-day I may find myself in such a place of beauty and life. Radagast the Brown must have known these elves well, as he lived just near Mirkwood. Wizard of nature & earth.🌳🌸🍂
Robert, I always learn from your videos and enjoy your writing in particular, but this one was utterly lovely! Thank you for sharing so generously with us.
Another excellent video. THANK YOU!❤️🍻😁
Another beautiful video!
12:36 "Divide and Conquer" reference, nice
I like that the final shot here is of Bilbo when he discovers how beautiful Mirkwood should actually be when not under the Shadow
I believe there is some text somewhere in one of the HoME volumes where Tolkien wrote that during the War of the Elves and Sauron in the mid-2nd Age that Sauron first struck at Elves and Men living in Rhovanion and Greenwood before he launched his main attack into Eriador.
I think this was pretty much what Tolkken was suggesting that had happened with America taking a blind eye away from Germany when they invaded Poland and France.
Actually after the battle under the trees Thanduil marched south, purging the forest, until he met with Celeborn who was marching north. Also The Woodland Realm never encompassed the whole forest, even in the years of Oropher's rule the realm only encompassed the southern region. You should really check your sources better.
As my own interpretation I'd say that Thranduil was not part of the white council since, just like his father, he would likely want to avoid the influence of the elves of the west (such as Galadriel, Celeborn and Elrond).
It is confirmed in the books by Gimli that the dwarves helped build Thranduil's halls more than likely when the dwarves had holds in the Grey mountains
The spiders of Mirkwood were the children of Shelob.
Most likely the best narrator for the LOTR, I enjoy your videos like an audiobook. Keep up the great work!!
Awesome subject!!! Would love more like these, digging into legendary natural locations
I'm sure someone has already written an essay about this, but I have always found interesting the parallels between how the White Council dealth with the Necromancer and how the Allies dealth with Hitler at the beginning of WWII. I imagine that was Tolkien's main inspiration. The lesson learned that if you give evil enough leeway and act too slowly, evil will be allowed to thrive. The indecision of the allies after the invasion of Poland led to the war and the Holocaust. The White Council's indecision led to the War of the Ring and the near destruction of Middle Earth.
Ah Sauron, he does so love to re-purpose former Elven Strongholds to his own nefarious purposes.
mirkwood: evil persists while good people do nothing
Another excellent video! Even when you are telling me things I know it is nice to hear your voice reminding me! In this case I knew all the facts, but by creating this narrative you have made me aware of things I had not considered, especially of why Thranduil was such an isolationist! Watching his father and much of his people being slaughtered must have been incredibly traumatic. Oropher and his people clearly knew nothing of war, but valiantly threw themselves into the fray nonetheless. Legolas' ability in warfare, although perhaps overstated in the Jackson movies, may even have developed as a reaction to those losses.
Thank you that was absolutely fascinating
I once built a LEGO fort and then pretended i was Godzilla and smashed it to bits. The Little people were scattered all over. It was good times.
You haven't made a LotR video that I don't love. All your videos are awesome.
That was beautiful, Mate!
Brilliant narrating.
I would love a video on all the languages created by JRR Tolkien. Information on how and why he did it.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video!
You nailed it again, Robert.
I'm surprised how familiar I am with some of these parts because of the battle for the middle earth 2 campaign. The last mission on the "good guy" campaign has you assault Dol Guldur with the elves. Though the dwarves join in as well for some reason.
The deforestation of the last of England's old-growth forests happened within Tokien's lifetime.
Beautifully written
Well done yet again Robert, if I may be so familiar.
You should do a video on the goblin king from the hobbit!
Just found these. Great stuff mate :)
It might have been with a mention that the name Mirkwood is lifted while cloth from Norse Mythology.
amazing thank you!
Beautiful ending to this essay. And so true.
"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing" John Stuart Mill
Bravo!
Why is it actually called the last alliance of Elfs and Men since the dwarfs were also part of it, even if in fewer number
What's the natural life expectancy for an Orc? Just asking because if The Necromancer was building an army of Orcs for a millennium...are they long lived like elves?
Terrific.. thanks.. I have named my modest six acre wood Mirkwood in honour of Tolkien.
I like to think that Thrandruil overcame his PTS after the battle of five armies
Great video!
I wonder if the darkness that infests areas, and is pushed back, only to return is metaphor for fascism?
Great video,,,
Safe to say thranduil and isildur are the main reason sauron endured and resurfaced
“Uploaded 2 minutes ago” I think that’s a first for me lol
Gotta love some fresh Robert, hot off the press!
Were the concluding comments to this video a call to action against Russia?
IMO, though Tolkien did believably integrate the Hobbit version to the rest of the history, there was a lot that was only implied. Were the caves built for the Elves or did they occupy caves abandoned by the Dwarves? Either could be true.
I liked this. 🌝
I would love a video on Beorn and as well as one on Legolas. I feel like Legolas is the least understood member of the Fellowship, all the other we know their lineage and their places in their respective kingdoms/cultures but I've never had a clear picture of who Legolas was.
Your clips help me fill in some blanks.
It's sad that there were never Ents there. Actually that there weren't more Ents period.
I am convinced Sauron poured his power into the Ring to keep someone like Gandalf from taking his power as Gandalf did to Saruman. I think the ring Saruman wore held the power of his voice and that is how he retained it after Gandalf took all else.
They say foul things lurk in Mirkwood....
The Nandor were also known for their chicken recipes
Thranduil should have asked for help, since he and his people stand no chance alone against Sauron and his forces there. He was a proud one though and made a mistake. Hopefully he learned from it.
Oh heck; only just realized that Thranduil went on to become Emperor Day in Foundation
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing." I see parallels in our own time. Self-important men oppressing others in the name of patriotism or simply their own ego. There are many Thranduils around today.
Where does Tolkien say the Balchoth raided Lorien?
I didnt know that the place of Dol Guldur was Orofers capital in the 2nd age, and that the wood elves settled all over the forest before their losses in the last alliance 🙂
We all undertand the reference, especially hear in Poland
4:49 Emyn Muil in the northeast?
Great video. Watched it a week ago, but I’m now coincidentally just watching an unexpected journey and just had the scene where Smaug was attacking the mountain and thranduel and had his army of elves but he was not helping. Peter Jackson really captured the fact that Thranduel and the elves were really more interested in looking after themselves. They really pay great tribute to Tolkien and his books.
What game do a lot of those animated shots come from??
Interesting Video! Maybe "Common What Ifs in Lord of the Rings?"
Can't help wondering if Thranduil was modelled on Neville Chamberlain.
At 07:28 you say "The Necromancer attracted the descendants of Shelob . . . ".
Do you men 'the ancestors of Shelob . . .'?
No, the description of Shelob says, "Far and wide, her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates...spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Duath to the the eastern hills, to Dol Guldur and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, Shelob the great, the last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world." So, Shelob is the offspring of Ungoliant (the og giant spider who poisoned the two trees of Valinor and almost killed Morgoth back at the start of the First Age), and the other giant spiders (such as the ones in Mirkwood) are her offspring.
@@Wolfeson28 But the time period he is talking about is that of the LOTR. So surely he's not talking about Shelob's descendants after Sauron was defeated as Mirkwood was restored.
@@NR-rv8rz That passage I quoted is the first description of Shelob when Frodo and Sam encounter her in her lair. So the offspring it's describing Shelob having are clearly from before the time of the books.
I D G !!!!!
Oh nooo ! I thought we were talking about Westerosi. My bad =(
There is another great saga written by David Eddings
Where should I start reading Tolkien's books? Iread The Hobbit and the first book of the Ring trilogy, but they did not click. I'd like to give it another try, but am confused.
There is no subscibe-button at the buttom-right of my screen. wherre do i have to click to click?
Mirkvith
Heirs of Ungolianth, perhaps you mean
Don't worry it s all farmland now, perfect for corn and soy bean
Thranduil is a villain. For all we hear about the "weakness of men" and "the greed of dwarves", the elves need to be examined as selfish and cowardly.