Douglas Murray: 'Jimmy Carr's audience knew what they were getting into' | SpectatorTV
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- čas přidán 18. 05. 2024
- Douglas Murray joins Kate Andrews to talk about Jimmy Carr's Netflix special, politicians' attempts to censor speech, and Joe Rogan.
Douglas says: 'What I think is happening is known as context collapse. Jimmy Carr's audience know exactly what they're getting into when they go to his shows.'
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People who think Carr actually meant it are the same people who go answer an actual door when you start telling a knock-knock joke.
Beautiful. Perfectly said.
She claimed to show the line "for context" and proceeded to take it TOTALLY out of context.🙄
Love it, well done!
This. To me he was pointing out the hypocrisy of those who only mention how Jews suffered. He was highlighting Roma victims arent mentioned. They didnt seem to get that.
I think Jimmy Carr is one of the funniest people alive. I think that Douglas Murray standing up for comedy he doesn’t like is really important.
he's okay, he's not in the upper tier of comedians. Not even close tbh. czcams.com/video/-dulGdlC6hs/video.html
The question really is if you truly believe Carr was celebrating the attempted extermination of a certain group. If you do then the problem may well lie closer to home...
It's always great to hear more from Douglas. Cheers.
Joke...
Douglas is a joke of a person
Douglas, as usual, is a voice of sanity.
A voice of sanity in Britain is about as much use as a copy of the bible in a whorehouse.
He is intellectual King of the Bovver Boys just ahead of Laurence Fox. They should have their own TV show, actually, no they shouldn't.
It’s not even “cruel and unwitty” though is it? Listen to the audience, they all laugh their arses off. It’s funny because everyone knows he’s not serious, and the fact we even discuss this shows how far we have fallen.
Staggers me how difficult it is for -certain- people to not watch or listen to something they do not like.
😂
Well said
4:50 - That's a very good point, that one of the points of comedy is to determine where the line is. If Jimmy Carr went to far his audience would let him know by turning hostile.
If a man walks down a street, slips on a banana skin, falls to the ground, suffering momentary intense pain and a badly bruised backside that's funny. If he slips on the same banana skin, breaks his neck and ends up a paraplegic that isn't funny. The cutting edge of what's funny is probably somewhere between the above two scenarios and is up to individuals, not the state, to determine.
I might not like what you say but I will fight to my dying day for your right to say it
If people don't like Jimmy they don't have to watch him!!
Shouldn't that be the same for the canceled Jim Davidson & Chubby Brown?
@@czerwonadupa9547 yep, spot on, nobody should be cancelled for freedom of speech.
That doesnt preclude people from being disgusted when he uses his massive platform to legitimise hatrid
@@basilbrush9075 Such offense-seakers have the right to be offended.
@@charliemopic470 I think you're missing the point - don't you think Gypsy/Roma/Traveller people get enough shit thrown their way from the government, police and general public without Carr demonising them further?
This is like a neighbour that looks over your high wall then moan about what you have in your garden.
The problem they face with Joe Rogan is they'd have to cancel the internet to stop him, millions will follow him on his own website. Douglas is right, most people don't actually realise just what a brilliant podcaster he is
Exactly. Rogan is a great conversationalist who will have guests from all walks of life, and talk to them with no agenda of his own. He’s also a fearless man who will go on stage and try to make people laugh, as well as being tough enough to kick most people’s ass. How weird that people look up to him 🙄
I used to love Rogan back in the early days but I grew up. He really sold out. Now he's desperately trying to be considered News but dosent want any of the criticism reserved for News companies.
@@killbotone6210 Most people will not see any truth in this
@@RhetoricalMuse I think most people have no idea who Rogan is to be factually honest 🤷♂️
I agree that he is an excellent pod-caster but he needs to take ownership when he allows conspiracy theorists and the likes of Alex Jones the Oxygen of publicity. Anyone who is willing to deny the massacre of children should never be given airtime and likewise if they are peddling untruths during a public health crisis that could lead to the deaths of people then there is a legitimate case for not allowing them the opportunity.
I’m just glad I’m old enough to have lived through the times when if you took offence at something it was tough luck. Good luck kids - enjoy your puritan lives.
Yes. Words and action are not the same - it's also important to think of intent.
The problem is who gets to decide what joke can be told. This country going down the pan fast. If you don't like it don't watch it.
The first bit of context ought to be the title of the show: His Dark Material. Yes, it's a riff on Pullman, but it's also an indicator that Jimmy was going to be pushing the boundaries HARD.
I don't always care for Jimmy's brand of comedy, but I do admire the way he can craft a joke and push the boundaries. And yes, sometimes it's the guilty laugh. I think I shouldn't be laughing at this, but I am.
But absolutely: free speech all the way. If I don't like what you have to say, I can argue with you or just ignore you. We don't need the Thought Police.
1 important thing: Not seeing Carr in person while he was telling the joke one is taken by the audience's laughter and dismiss him as tasteless and wrong, but by his reaction to the crowds' mirth one has to agree his joke was very good. His demeanor tells it all: He looks at the crowd as if condemning their reaction. Reminds me of Sacha Baron Cohen's singing an antisemitic song to an American audience, provoking them to pure antisemitism in return.
Crikey, now that you mention it, I took a look at the clip again... and he doesn't share the laughter... he is 'keeping Character' however, so it's ambiguous...
@Máire Daly did you then watch the bit where he explains it or are you just watching it out of context??? He explains it. In school we are taught about the jews dying from Hitlers war machine. Not once did they tell us about the other ethnic groups, he made a point.
@@Huggythepanda They did in Irish schools
@@mairedaly4926 that’s awesome to hear ❤️
My experience was similar to that described by Jimmy in that in my history classes in England we learned nothing of the persecution of black or Romani people or of Jehovah’s witnesses.
So I genuinely found it educational. 👌
@@Joseph_Roffey Thank you. Yes, the devastation of Poland, where Hitler tried to wipe out their entire civilisation is breathtaking.
Interestingly, I've an Irish friend teaching in the British school system & she's shocked at the level of historical ignorance of her students. It's not only highly British centric but the lack of detail in the school history curriculum concerns her. It's a pity, as history helps us make sense of the world around us.
In fairness, my modern European history education was very thorough in secondary school (Ireland)
Douglas Murray is a national treasure
That’s a good joke. Where you don’t see the punchline coming, and it’s instantly horrible. Great work by Carr.
This was a great Interview. Douglas is such an Intellect and Kate did her Job as an UN-Bias Journalist should, thank you both. If you are offended, to F*cking Bad! I have heard jokes that were funny, but would never repeat because of the language or subject, Tasteless Jokes are Not to be taken as belief, just as absurdly humorous.
Spot on Douglas many thanks
Considering he was telling a series of jokes in a live show where he labeled the segment as "jokes that are going to end my career", the joke is on the woke. As usual.
His explanation throughout the show, before this segment AND the explanation afterwards is the missing context.
Watch the whole thing, and enjoy being shocked and/or entertained, or not. And move on.
Jim Davidson said, “there are people who go to shows to be offended intentionally”.
i wouldnt go to a jim davidson show
@@1man1bike1road Those defending Jimmy Carr were completely silent over the cancelling of Jim Davidson & Chubby Brown. Why, not their right kind of comedian to defend?
@@1man1bike1road I would
@@czerwonadupa9547 I have never heard of those people. I have heard of Jimmy Carr.
Government shouldn't regulate comedy, music, or any other speech. If you're not threatening, inciting violence, or defrauding people, you should generally be allowed to say what you want, and others then have a right to say what they want.
Back before broadband was a thing, government had an important role in keeping the use of public airwaves regulated, and part of that meant keeping the content family-friendly, constructive, and accessible to most people. That doesn't apply to comedy clubs and it doesn't apply to the internet. Point of view discrimination by government should not be a thing.
Or ‘intentionally go to shows to be offended’ …
That is not even close to the most controversial joke I've heard Jimmy carr say. It just seems it's his turn in this cancel culture society we live in.
When I was at university in the 80s we had far more offensive jokes printed in the rag mag than anything Jimmy Carr has ever said on stage. The view of the mag's producers was "if you don't want to be offended, don't read the mag".
@@jrd33 I'd forgotten about rag mags. They were brutally funny. There's no way students living through today's woke culture would publish such material now.
I totally agree with Douglas, I'm not a fan of Carr but to cancel is going down such a dangerous road. You don't like him, don't go, there are people who do - live and let live! What the f is happening right now ?!?
Communism is happening.
@@meiko431 Nope. Stupidity is happening.
If you don't like him , don't watch him! Simple!!!!!
If you don't like what people are saying about him, you don't have to read it! Simple!!!!!
The court jester has traditionally been able to say what they like - I.e. to hold up a mirror to the power, it's a dangerous game to gag the court jester
And when the 'court Jester' becomes the 'power' ?
@@petermclelland278 They mean government power.
This is a great way to put it! Comedy is the outlet valve of a society! I feel it actually let's us all know collectively the world we live in is mad and that its okay we all feel the same about it.
Douglas is having a ‘Something About Mary’ moment with his hair … 😂😂😂
Fantastic interview
Love Douglas. Kate, know you have to ask the questions but always good to hear your input too & it becomes more a conversational interview.
I am on the same opinion that Jimmy Carr’s comedy is not witty, yet cancelling him is dangerous . Mr Murray nails it once again. The West is fast sinking into the worst communist thought policing. In my native country, Hungary one could lose their job for making the wrong joke when I was a child, this is where we’re at in Western societies with the cancel culture. Let’s not forget, in the 50’s one could lose their life for the same! It was custom to publicly apologise and repent to redeem oneself very much like in the recent events around Joe Rogan. This of course shows many parallels between today’s extremist leftist ideology and Communist dictatorships amongst them the religious, cult-like nature of it.
But it's international finance that's funding the Woke agenda. BLM was funded by Bank of America and PayPal. Global Capitalism is Woke not just the cultural Marxists.
I guess this all depends on your point of view. Think about someone close to you, family, kids, lets say something horrible happened to them and someone chose to make a joke out of it on TV, would you suddenly become a Communist if you thought it was wrong? If you were a Roma Gypsy and had family who had died in the Holocaust, how would you feel? If it's ok to make a joke out of the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, then why not the millions of Jews also - is one ok and one not ok? Nobody is policing your thought - you can think the worst thoughts in the world if you want, but should this guy be getting paid to joke about this stuff? Everyone''s got something they think is too serious to joke about, if they say otherwise they're probably a liar. I'd be prepared to bet that 10 years from now, we won't have slipped into the Communist Dictatorship you imagine.
Quite right. Please keep saying that because so few in the west really understand what is at stake in this (and it's so much worse with today's technology). Thanks.
@@evolassunglasses4673 Sad but totally true. Big business is a huge part of the problem and a lot of us with conservative views are starting to reconsider our old dogmas. When they're not destroying our culture, they are selling us out to China.
@@jonathanshone5517 it's not for the government to say.
If only the world had several million more Douglas Murrays! He is a rare and brilliant mind; the personification of CIVILIZATION itself!
Douglas murry you look great. Just finished your latest book excellent !
I like Jimmy when he does his quiz shows but not a great fan of his standup but cancel culture has gone to far imo and as Douglas says his audience knows what to expect.
Are you of the opinion that this particular joke was racist, and if not, why not?
@@almac8524 Well its not a joke I would tell and the holocaust should be kept respectful in general imo the estimated 6 million jews
and 4 million others were treated inhumanely then murdered some quick straight from the train in 'showers' others worked,
torured or beaten to death. One positive he highlighted some of the other groups involved who do not get recognized as much
and the the reason I do not see Jimmy as racist is he makes jokes about everyone including himself to push his audiences
comfort zone. Now whether he should of told that joke ? I would say no . Is he a racist ? From what I have seen of him for the
past 20 years I would also say no. Is the joke racist ? probably but its not enough to cancel him imo. Protest or boycott his
shows and CD's fair enough.....Culture cancellation is exactly what the NAZI's did when they got into power , so be carefull
what you wish for.
@@almac8524 For the very obvious simple reason that gypsy is not a race.
@@almac8524 Ooooh, “race”!! It’s the big boogy man of the present day! It’s the ultimate “sin”! It’s very telling how it’s Carr’s “race” joke that hit the fan. All the clowns who pile on about his “race” joke, said diddly squat about his “fat” jokes, or his jokes about ANYTHING else!
Oh, but as soon as he mentions anything related to the “r” word…all the brainlets loose their sh*t! It’s mindless.
These morons are trying to destroy ANYTHING funny! They equate a JOKE about something, with the thing itself!
That’s how stupid they are.
They’re the fun police! The “tone” police!
Which very quickly mutates into the book burners and the censors if they’re not put in their proper place.
These people who try to cancel are just grifters. It's just self interest as Douglas says. They need to be called out. They've recently arrested a rapper a poc for using a certain photo as his album cover. It's himself at the capitol demonstration. They are threatening him with 2 years because they are terrified that their agenda is ruined. Many poc went to the demonstration but they want to paint the picture that it was all whyte conservatives so they can denigrate them and put them all in that basket of deplorables. It's ALL JUST RAMPANT SELF INTEREST!
I get the feeling he doesn’t have a sense of humour either because the joke was amazing and the joke he said was not even a joke 😂. People who think you have to be part of a group to joke about it are also part of the problem.
If you don’t like what he says don’t go to his shows.
So obvious it's puzzling that anyone has to say it...
Trouble is he has one persona on telly and another persona in his stand up.
I only know what his stand up is like because someone downloaded one of his shows and i realised then what a vile bellend he is.
Thankfully i didn't line his pockets or waste my time and money going to see him but if i had I'd be pissed off!
Done and done
Then don’t watch any comedians you see on telly live. Male or female. They let it lose on stage. That’s comedy for you. It’ll make some people uncomfortable at some jokes. Comedy has had a positive effect in some of my own prejudices. Helped me to easily navigate from a place of ignorance and darkness to the reality of facts. Jimmy’s comedy can be brutal but I for one through many other jokes on the subject plus this one from Jimmy only makes me understand and subsequently be sympathetic with the Roma community even more, not the opposite as I work with 2 guys from that community and know the stereotype does not conform.
@@renatorosa2730 some comedy does indeed challenge pre conceptions,this crass joke certainly is not an example of that
These witless politicians clearly haven't heard Carr's other jokes!!! He's been saying astoundingly offensive things for decades! That is his thing! 🤣🤣🤣
Jimmy Carr's comedy has always been and will always be highly alternative and edgy. It is far more intelligent than you would otherwise think, using discomfort and taboo breaking to make a point.
Quite right - if you don't like it, don't go there.
And Jimmy Carr is absolutely right that nobody would have known of the massacre of gypsies without his totally boundary breaking joke.
In isolation, of course it is offensive.
But its a joke, its comedy. Its a play on words and on thinking.
This is not what he thinks and not what the audience thinks either.
Laughter in comedy is at the surprise of the absurd.
You can hear the audience's surprise, laughter and disgust, you could argue disgust mostly at the massacre.
It is a paradox that the world is railing Carr, where is the outrage at the massacre?
You mean Jimmy Carr's audience would not have known of the massacre of the gypsies without his joke. The really silly thing is that the people in his British audience are mainly objecting to Irish Travellers who are not the same as the Sinti and Roma who were murdered in the Nazi Camps. So the whole joke leaves an exceptionally sour taste in the mouth because Carr himself doesn't explain the difference.
@@alicemilne1444 You're overthinking it. It's not like the people who hate Travelers care whether they're related to Roma or not.
@@caitthecat That is exactly what I was saying. If I had said "ironic" instead of "silly", would you have understood that better?
I am to the left as Douglas Murray is to the Right, but I agree with him on the SNP and Freedom of Speech. If you find something offensive, then do not search for that material.
The Alan Carr joke was about hitting us in the face with society’s actual prejudice against travellers and gypsies. He knows ‘none’ of us want a traveller camp anywhere near our castles and the joke hooks into that. I think it was clever. It wasn’t hate speech at all; in fact I don’t think it really had much to do with gypsies, could have been people with disabilities, immigrants, gay people etc.
You are so right Douglas! Love to listen to you!!
I see Douglas Murray, I click like.
Great logical points from the brilliant Douglas. Sometimes it is difficult to make the argument until you have learned how Douglas would win it.
Douglas is always on point!
9:17. Excellent and important point about the dangerous trend to confuse speech with action.
As always DM sums it up perfectly.
The arrogance of some two bit politician to tell you what you can laugh at is the biggest and best joke of all
Especially a two-bit politician who doesn't give a fuck about Roma or Travelers. She'd have more credibility if her government actually did something to help them, but it's been the opposite. So sad.
@@caitthecat She is busy looking up her offers, for her next appearance of "i,m a celebrity",The woman's, got standards you know!
@@caitthecat Exactly Caitlin!
LOVE the "guess you had to be there" joke!
"You'll know a joke lands when half of the audience is laughing, and the other half is horrified."
- Patrice O'Neal
There’s no such thing as too much Douglas Murray. Love, love, love him.
Totally love DM….please keep telling the truth
Javid wants to be PM
He's definitely angling for the top spot
The youtube algo really loves Douglas Murray.
I went to see Carrs last year, and his "slap yourself for your stupidity" "joke" got about 95% approval. Anything he said after that could not take the chill away that that had out up my spine. Never again. If if want totalatarianism, I'll find my own.
People just need to grow up and understand some people’s opinions may not align with their own.
@@singalexsong Indeed but surely you must see that certain opinions in the last 2 years led to people being persona non gratis, and liable to recrimination and abuse - potentially losing their job. That's not freedom of expression, and it felt like Orwells Hate Hour rather than a misplaced joke. It ruined the rest of Carr's routine for me, because of the ugly side of the people in the audience, and clearly he knew the kind of reaction it would get. If 5% of the audience were black or female, would a similar joke be considered opinion? I've had two people that I work for wishing me death. That's losing the plot IMO.
We have a Netflix subscription and did not realize Jimmy was available to watch we love his humour and will.look him up later.
The fact that he is telling us something that most of young people seemed to have forgotten says alot.Im sure nobody during my schooling mentioned gypsy's were included in being eliminated by the Nazis.
Spot on. Carr is actually highlighting a forgotten fact and making it unforgettable; génius.
That's incredible to hear. It's also incredible to me to learn that so many young people these days know little more than the very basics of Nazism and WW2, and don't do any further finding out for themselves.
The very point of the joke. The disingenuous way it has been jumped on by both sides totally ignores that. Almost like the pro freedom of speech side is doing nothing more than virtue signalling by failing to point out that reason.
you see, thats the difference between UK and German schools, we learned every aspect about the Nazis , you only the convenient part!
did you teachers told you that the Concentration Camp is an British invention, i am sure they forgot that part, too!
@@Arltratlo On that concentration camp issue, perhaps further analysis should be made of a lot further back in history and the treatment of captives following wars - and that means in every continent going back thousands of years. Some might say the building of the Egyptian pyramids was one giant concentration camp that lasted thousands of years.
"I do not agree with what the gentleman said but I will fight to the death for his right to say it"
"I don't agree with cancel culture, but I support their right to call for it"
Support all freedom of speech, or you don't support free speech, just speech you like...
You can't support Carr on the basis of free speech without supporting those who use their free speech to call for him to be blacklisted. I don't agree with cancel culture, but if we are having free speech, they deserve theirs even if I disagree.
There is no such thing as good comedy, good literature, good music, good food or good taste, it's all personal preference. If you're woke, watch woke comedy (if such a thing exists), if you don't like Dickens, don't read Dickens, if you like punk, you might not like jazz, if you're a vegan, you won't be eating bacon and so on and so on. There is of course a purpose behind all of this controversy, let's divide and conquer and portray those of a different opinion as a threat and as the enemy. I agreed with most of what Douglas had to say but disagree strongly with his assertion that certain things are only acceptable when said by certain sections of society, isn't that the complete opposite of equality?
Well observed. A lot of sound common sense there.
It's the seemingly never ending push to make the subjective objective.
Completely agree mate thought Douglas was bang on until that point. You should be able to tell any joke about anyone regardless of identity. Otherwise you are playing identity politics which Murray despises.
Never took much notice of Carr before this but watch all his vids now.
Heard that joke so many times, still laughed out so loud. 😂😂😂
It never ceases to baffle me when people claim that a joke 'isn't funny' or that a person 'isn't witty'. If the joke elicits laughter, it's funny, and it's likely witty too especially if it involves some kind of technique, which in the case of Carr's joke is irony (no-one expected him to say it because no-one believes he thinks it; he likely doesn't think it but says it precisely because it's unexpected).
More than anything else (and I'm aware I'm restating something said many times before) it's important for people like Carr to tell jokes like this, at least from time to time, if only to illuminate the people who *claim* we should have free speech but who aren't willing to extend this to everyone (though we should also highlight those people who are far more open, and less contradictory, about their demands for censorship).
Basically, if we live in a supposedly liberal democracy, we have to test the limits from time to time. Imagine living in a supposedly impenetrable castle and not testing the defences regularly. Think about whether you'd get on a plane if you knew it hadn't been subjected to hundreds of checks since it last landed. It's not enough to be told we live in a democracy; we have to *know* that we do, and such knowledge can only be acquired through experience.
THIS
100% agreed, the Government shouldn’t be weighing in. Public outcry is one thing that’s people consuming content and reacting, sanctions from Government would be beyond the pale.
Good stuff….. thanks
TBH I don’t even know why this is being discussed. As if the government can ever prevent the topic of jokes. Keep going Netflix
Douglas Murray: "I'm not quite sure you've earned the right to do that." So sad to see Douglas Murray losing the plot. Everyone has the right to make jokes about anything, Douglas. Get a grip.
I'm not sure you fully understand the context of his comment. His opinion (not fact, his opinion) is that certain groups have the right to make certain jokes/comments based on their personal affinity to that group, in a way that others outside that group do not perhaps enjoy. I don't know whether l fully agree with him but far from losing the plot he's simply expressing a fairly widely held notion. Particularly in comedy.
@@chrisb8075 The reason I say he's losing the plot is because he's expressing an opinion that falls into a category he once vociferously objected to, namely giving special rights to people based on race, gender, culture, etc. The very fact that this is a 'widely held notion' should ring alarm bells where Murray is towing that line.
I recall a time when his response to this joke, and the ensuing hysterical nonsense from media and politicians, would simply be to say "Grow up. Comedy is comedy, and everyone has a right to express an opinion or make a joke, regardless of whether or not they're part of a clique, club or recently-defined minority."
Exactly. And from someone who wrote a book on The Madness of Crowds (very good book) about the dangers of identity politics then goes and supports that very ideology. I was horrified by this interview.
Carr's joke was saying something: it was, through laughter, shining a light on the attitude of some Europeans toward Gypsies. Unlike Douglas, whom I often agree with, I found the joke funny because I've personally heard the way some people in that part of the world denigrate the Gypsies. It is through comedy that you actually progress towards acceptance of minorities. Examples of this would be Mr. Humphries from the UK show, "...Are You Being Served?" He went a long way to helping gay people gain acceptance in the world. Another would be "Love thy Neighbour" and "All in the Family". Both of these shows highlighted the ridiculousness of bigotry, while at the same time introducing audiences to groups of people they may not normally have any interaction with; people they largely know through rumour, gossip and stereotypes. Through these comedies, they are exposed to the fact that, despite any superficial and largely inconsequential differences, they are the same as anyone else (if you prick me, do I not bleed?) but, even more than this, they realise that they like them and, as a consequence, they are more likely to be less judgemental of other people. It is a slow process, to be sure, and can take a long time, but it will happen and is far more effective than trying to shame people into accepting others; that just leads to resentment of both the people trying to force the issue and, worst of all, the very people they are trying to advocate for -- just because people will say in public what they have been forced to say, doesn't mean they truly feel that way. With comedy, they will. Positive reinforcement is always much more effective than negative reinforcement.
❤❤❤
I agree with the premise of this video, and allowing someone to make almost any jokes. It would be interesting though to see what the reaction would have been if ‘gays’ replaced ‘gypsies’ in the joke of Jimmy Carr’s.
Or Jews, women, black people, children etc
I imagine that it would be very uncomfortable for many people, and if that was a consistent theme instead of an absurdist one-off, he'd have a very small audience.
I have to be honest, being an American, we have no real analog to gypsies, and the historical animosity toward them is alien to me. I *assume* that there is a reactionary element in Europe that actively dislikes them, but that most people are either indifferent or annoyed by them at most. Thus the joke is not so much that gypsies are bad, but that Jimmy Carr is adopting the pose of a reactiinary to get laughs.
I probably have that wrong but that's how it looks from outside.
@@thevoxdeus There may be that element to the joke but I can say that in the UK there is, in my experience, fairly widespread animosity towards the Irish traveller community. There is a (in my opinion partially justified) viewpoint that they are disproportionately involved in criminality, vandalism, illegal dumping of waste and generally operating as a parallel society.
This sort of anti-traveller/gypsy joke would be far less likely to be labelled as blatant bigotry in the UK than if he had aimed it at, say, black people or gay people. That was why I wondered if people would be so keen to argue for Carr’s freedom of speech if he had joked that the killing of Jews or Gays was a “positive”.
The disabled were also murdered.
Wonder what holocaust deniers think ?...
"prosecute the audience for laughing" is one really, really hot take. WTF is going on in Scotland?
The voice of reason in the madness of media
That 2 Jews laughing in heaven joke was not only funny but some very strong points were made in the punchline.
I do not agree with what you say but i will defend to the DEATH your RIGHT to say it.
It's called 'the turn-around'.
You lead the audience down a line of thought, and then reverse direction and go in the opposite direction from what you have lead them to think naturally comes next.
Emo Phillips is my favorite turn around artist.
It's wonderful. I laughed. It's horrible!
Eric Cartman is my favorite 'he's horrible' comic character.
I love it!! My grandmother was a gypsy from Eastern Europe. She would have laughed too....and then turned to me and said "that's awful!"
Brilliant. 😬🙄😂
Would have been nice to see the WHOLE joke.
This is something which has been missed from every talk radio or news item.
He goes on the explain the joke, which for this is quite important.
His explanations just downplay how disrespectful he was being. Like a child making excuses when he realises he's messed up.
@@basilbrush9075 Fair enough, if you haven't watched Jimmy Carr before, that's fine. That's something he does, which is part of the joke..
The room laughed, and the people who were offended won't see him again.
No one was tied in a chair clockwork orange style and forced to watch the Netflix special.
People are jumping infront of a bullet and yelling "STOP SHOOTING AT ME!"
@@rorrt and the people who believe the horrible things that he perpetuated continue to believe them, even more vindicated than they previously were.
@@basilbrush9075 What? Try again.
@@deltanovember1672 try again? Which bit?
What next, government ministers suggesting that certain books be banned? We need not go too far back in history to find examples - just look at certain US state education departments.
There's something unconventionally good looking about Kate Andrews
True. She also has an opinion, not a disease.
We know from our personal experience and observing others’ that thinking something, saying something and doing something are very different things. We may be disturbed by our thoughts, or shocked and offended by someone’s speech, but these are very different to being physically harmed.
I agree with your point, except to say that words can be extremely hurtful to someone. And I'm not talking about jokes but more a personal (and unwarranted) put down. Some people are more sensitive and take things to heart more easily than others and again I'm not talking about the 'wokes' or the easily offended as I feel there is a distinct difference between the two.
But you are right in that physical pain is different to emotional pain.
I like Jimmy Carr as a host - he's quick-witted and delivers some great laugh out loud one liners. I also have a Netflix subscription and haven't watched the Jimmy Carr Netflix special - I very rarely, in fact, have never watched a 'comedy Netflix special'. I prefer to watch comedians 'live' on stage in person. The beauty of a subscription service is that you don't have to watch things that don't appeal to you. Sadly, there are those who watch things knowing they will be appalled and outraged just so they can create a hashtag & post a tweet on Twitter. They like to see their hashtags trending - I always label them as 'Mr/Miss, Sad, Lonely and Angry' - Trial/Cancellation by the Twitter.
They cut the clip short... What a surprise
The God joke really cracked me up.
By the way, did you know that in Auschwitz the Jewish prisoners ran an underground comedy club only a hundred meters away from the crematoria, dedicated to black humor jokes about the Nazis, the Jews, their relationship, their miserable existence and their coming tragic end? As you've said, if you couldn't laugh, you'd cry. And Jews have a whole lot to cry about, which is why they laugh a lot, I guess...
I once heard a rabbi explain that the patriarchs had prophetic names. Abraham used to be called Abram, but God changed his name to a prophetic one, meaning "father of nations". Jacob had his name changed to Israel by an angel, meaning "contends with god". Whereas Isaac was born Isaac and died Isaac, because it was a prophetic name from the start, meaning "shall laugh". And his decedents have been laughing ever since, because otherwise all they could do is just lie down and cry. Which is exactly what the authoritarian leftists want - to break your spirit so much you wouldn't have it in you to resist then even in your heart.
The most frightening thing about what Douglas Murray said was about the snp councillor even thinking about wanting to prosecute the audience and then the snp councillor let's it escape from their single brain cell. As I live in Scotland I've concluded we're doomed.
@fluffybunny no unfortunately not
So true John. Who will rid us of this dreadful woman?
I watched the special and I found some of it unfunny/tasteless, so on some level I "kinda" get why it's causing a stir...but Jesus... I simply cannot understand the psychology of wanting to cancel someone because of that.
It's simple: let people say what they want. You don't have to like it.
You say to let people say what they want, but then don't want to allow people to say what they want, that being to say negative things about Carr making a joke.
You can't have it both ways, either nobody can say what they want and there should be limits, or Carr can make the joke and people can call for there to be repercussions for him saying that.
Free speech goes both ways.
To paraphrase yourself: Let people call for him to be cancelled, you don't have to listen to them.
Do you not have an ‘off button’ on your device or legs to all out of a theatre ?
@@CZcamsHandlesSuckBalls There are no limits to free speech at a comedy gig. It's comedy, not real life.
Also people have every right to call for him to be cancelled, again, that's free speech. They are wrong to do so and, again, I am free, for now, to say that.
I'm normally with Murray but he seems all too happy to police humour that he doesn't agree with. Once you start down the road of "comedian X is the wrong race/sex/religion to make that joke" you have already lost the argument, in my opinion. Once you accept that position, you are just arguing about who gets to be the censor.
Those jabs at Jimmy were uncalled for, Douglas. He's sharp - watch his heckler takedowns for proof.
The joke was indeed wildly offensive. This in a sense makes it a meta-joke; It's a joke about how extreme a joke can be.
When you attend a Jimmy Carr show, you have paid for puns and wordplay that push boundaries.
The audience response was another meta layer yet:
• Some were laughing at the joke.
• Some were were laughing at his audacity in saying something so wildly offensive (i.e. the meta-joke)
• Some were laughing because they laugh at all the punchlines (whatever the punchline)
• Some were laughing at the meta²-joke that Jimmy had just played on some of his his audience in getting them to laugh at such a joke.
Jimmy is extremely talented, one of the best in the world as what he does, and I think he did absolutely nothing wrong and if I had paid to see him I would appreciate his willingness to go there and take a risk and do his job and bless him for it.
Although actually I think Carr probably does deserve some jabs for some of his covid takes.
The Gervais Anne Frank joke is funny af.
Love Douglas
It seems like a lot at the Spectator the hosts seem to be pretty woke. Thank god for Douglas Murray to push back on this.
Did Douglas Murray push back on it?
HOW ABOUT THE HATRED TOWARDS THE ENGLISH IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY . NO ONE EVER WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THAT .
Yet you zionists.talk about it all the time
Douglas Murray is so right about his comments about comedians being trusted by their audience, Jackie Mason had his Jewish
audiences in stiches telling jokes, which were derogatory to them. I think the one exception is that ANYBODY can make
jokes about the BBC. I can imagine the lot in charge of the BBC now ,were about in September 1938 They. would of made
the main news item an exclusive radio interview with Fred Perry the tennis player . Just as Hitler was about to invade the Sudetentland in Czechoslovakia !
I agree with most of what Douglas says but I have to completely disagree with people earning the right to joke about certain things. That seems to me a bit too much like segregation. And I say this in the terms of there being barriers that divide us. You cannot makes jokes about the Jews because your not Jewish, to me is a little too close to the appalling acts of the Jim Crow years in which people couldn't drink from a water fountain because they weren't white. It also tied very closely to another hot topic of late, cultural appropriation. The idea none Indians can't run an Indian restaurant. Or white people can't have dreadlocks because they aren't black. It's absurd. It divides, it segregates and it destroys any and all forms of multiculturalism. This behaviour would leave us in a world were we are encouraged to mix with people from other races, but we can't eat foreign foods, can't jokes about anything but white problems, can't write books about people from other genders, can't use language or dress in clothing associated with other cultures. Pie shops for the British only and curry shops for Indians only. No Black's in Jimmy Carr shows and no whites in Romesh Ranganathan or Dave Chapelle shows. Sections of libraries for whites only or for Black's only. A ban on men from watching romcoms, women banned from action flicks and no white person can ever watch a Bollywood film. Lock up any white man buying a chicken tikka slice from Gregg's, it's Cornish pasties only. It's a sad sad sad world's when we start saying you can't use this language or entity this culture because you are not Jewish or not black. Freedom of speech should allow anyone to joke about anything.
Quite right. Almost unbelievably Douglas is straying into woke territory. Shows how insidious the woke virus is. Anybody can catch it.
The discussion should not be about Jimmy Carr but about why for the average audience, the word "gypsies" on that joke made it funnier than if he had said "homosexuals" or "disabled/crippled"
He said he was going to say career ending jokes. That's why it was funny. He showed he was aware of how these jokes almost crossed the line.
It was bloody hilarious. When it comes to comedy nothing, absolutely nothing is out of bounds.......
Douglas is right when he says that If they (the mob) can take down important figures then they can take out everybody - then after they got rid of the comedians they'll come for the writers & journalists. And any other major celebrity that they can - ie: Adele just a few days ago for her saying she's a woman and she loves being a woman.
And Douglas just joined that very mob by saying only some identities can tell some jokes! Seriously? I can't tell a joke about Anne Frank because I'm not elderly or Jewish?
Agree with Douglas Murray. I did not find the joke funny either but the online safety bill is a slow move into tyranny and will censor speech to such an extent that we lose the right to free speech.
It was never meant to bé funny, heavens get a grip.
@@MsMesem He's a comedian telling a joke. Of course it's meant to be funny.
@@jrobs1133 No , it was meant to shock and wake you up. Wakey wakey.
Ahh yes the tyranny bollix again
Monty Python used to make harsh jokes about Christians and it's odd the liberals were not offended and the Pythons were not cancelled.
Christians are not an oppressed minority in the UK. That's why.
@@nicholasbethell2921 Neither are Jews. In fact, history shows when Henry III took over, Catholics were not only "oppressed" but monasteries burned to the ground. Yet Python poked fun at them repeatedly also. However, self-victimization in the 21st Century is very profitable.
There were no woke lefties then. I am a Christian and am not vastly offended by it. I just think the actors don't know what I know! I am also a conservative. As both, I am tolerant and forgiving.
@@rosyrussell5209 I think that there have always been 'woke lefties' as you put it.
Have you never watched Jimmy Carr before? I’m not even British and I’ve seen his comedy on CZcams before and this isn’t even the worst thing he’s said. It’s not even the worse thing he’s said about the holocaust. His jokes are always Fd up
Hmmmmm, I may not like what you say, however i will defend your right say it........... It's about time the majority stood up and proclaimed this. In the UK we have free speech, and we should defend that right............ Shutting down comedy is not free speech
Jimmy Carr was almost making a point about anti-gypsy prejudice but then he took it a step further.
No, he was using contrast - implying that any decent human being would be horrified that a mass slaughter of a particular group had taken place (and it being largely overlooked) and then creating laughter by showing that he approved of the genocide of gypsies.
So it wasn't a step further - a step further could, for instance, have been listing other groups also slaughtered in one of the greatest acts of barbarity and mental sickness ever.
Instead, he used a standard trick in jokes and used an about-face to suggest that this was a 'positive'. Disgusting doesn't begin to convey it, does it?
@@alana8863 it’s satire it show how gypsy are still by a lot still not seen as a race or even people by some.
@@imputinandihaveasmallpeepe9165 Then that was a serious point and so why would people laugh?
Because that’s how comedy works you give them a set up going one way and then the punchline goes the other.
Now the stupid racist laughed at us gypsy yes but anyone with have a brain was laughing at how shocking the joke is an how much of a uncomfortable position it puts them in as they laugh it would have highlighted there unconscious biases
I'm offended by Downing Street commenting on jokes. Who do they think they are? What country do they think they're governing? No matter how appalled you are by the joke, surely you can see the danger in this? The most bitter irony? This is supposed to be a conservative government.
It's 'Two Minutes Hate'. Otherwise, on point analysis!
Nadine Dorries. Culture Secretary. Just let that sink in again and again. It’s insane