The trip trap that trips up testers
Vložit
- čas přidán 27. 06. 2023
- Imagine having worked in the field for this many years yet still getting caught out by the most basic of faults! Actually, don’t - we’ve done it here for you! Sod’s law meets kitchen fitter buffoonery while dropping under the radar of our inspection & testing in one of those perfect storm situations where an issue is missed because more than one failing occurred on the day. Y’know, it’s this kind of thing that normally brings down aeroplanes - no single fault, but a combination of two or more seemingly small, overlooked problems that happen to coincide at the same time in a disastrous way.
Okay, so here it wasn’t so disastrous; it merely left the tenant unable to use his hob & toaster for a short time whilst interrupting my hand-job happy hour, and yes, at my age it does sometimes take that long which can leave things somewhat chafed. Why, some days sees such vigorous rubbing that I’m left with a cock like a stick of Peperami!
Links:
Make your own multifunction tester PAT adaptor: • Turn your M.F.T. into ...
John Ballbag’s instacack account: / jb_tech_installations_
Adam and Nick's CZcams channels:
/ @adamtheelectricalappr...
/ @nbundyelectrical
Affiliate links:
For a shout out in a future video and to keep me and Nigel in liquid lunches, you can buy us a beer or cigar here or with the SuperThanks button:
www.buymeacoffee.com/dseselec...
My shoddy Amazon storefront:
www.amazon.co.uk/shop/davidsa...
£50 off YourTradeBase:
go.yourtradebase.com/refer/3M...
SumUp credit/debit card processing:
r.sumup.com/referrals/oBF5S
£10 off your first Huel order when you spend £40 or more:
huel.mention-me.com/m/ol/nm0s...
Get £40 credit for switching to Zen Internet:
zen.mention-me.com/m/ol/rt4lh...
For web hosting, get £10 off at Krystal with the code DSESELECTRIC at checkout!
krystal.uk/
Recycle your scrap cable at greencable.com - use referral code GREENCABLET1ZT when setting up an account and I'll get a tenner while you get a recycling bin delivered at no cost!
For more on my video content, refer to my OnlyFans page (not really an OnlyFans page):
dses.co.uk/index.php/news/244... or at dses.tv - Věda a technologie
You know it's good when non-sparks spend their evenings watching this. I'm just sorry you had to solve another problem caused by Nige's negligence, he'll clearly never learn 🤦♂️
“A fking kitchen fitter…yes !” Moooaaaan 😂
Nice that the audience participation was there.
Well explained David. It seems so simple now you have found the fault, but definitely a head scratcher at the time.
Fault finding is tricky and most guys I talk to, struggle with it, myself included some times. Experience gathered on site by others and passed on is like gold. Many thanks
Simply the best Sparky channel on CZcams. Compare this with the boring Artisan tripe they don't compare. Just wish David uploaded more vids
The brick throw had me howling 😂
Absolute quality; practical, filthy, funny and top quality real world ‘lectrics. Thanks again David.
Clever and well intended video. A lot of us would shrug it off as a faulty appliance! Great ending with the shout outs. The Brick scene was hilarious.😂😂😂
That would have been my initial thought but then I would use an extension lead and plug it into a different socket.
Chavvy human soup warmer , ledgend
After seeing your video, I initiated the same neutral/earth fault and tested the socket with my Socket & See tester and my Fluke mft. Neither of them picked up the fault. When I tested it with my Kewtech Loop Tester, however, that immediately tripped the rcd. So there we have it, very useful to know not to rely on the Socket & See tester in future.
wet spaghetti on the floor is possibly the most accurate analogy of all time! love these videos. Learning with middle earth humour!
You should be grateful that Nigel picked up the fake brick and not a real one , at least i'm hoping he did . Another excellent , funny and informative video.
Love the T-Shirt.. can’t believe several people at Walmart waved that design through! 😂😂
Thanks for the coffee Kip - I'll be sure to direct people to your corner of the interweb!
Took me far too long to find the c_nt in the t-shirt
I was cracking up at the kitchen fitter bit. Thank god for David savery
David - thanks for another entertaining and educational video - the reference to the human soup warmer made me chortle... keep it up!
Cheers as always Marky Mark! Very generous of you sport.
brilliant stuff.. the Keith Floyd of electrics
Kitchen fitter comment killed me 🤣🤣🤣
I seriously appreciate this video, thank you for sharing
Love your sarcasm 😂...as a 51 yr old spark of 30 odd years, I've learnt something from your vid ,,,,👍
Chavy human soup warmer 😂😂😂 top content
Now the missus is in bed I’m away to do my own “chores”…
that bit at the end with the brick made me wince. you had me fooled i had to rewatch a couple of times to convice myself it wasnt real. great video as always . i have also with good intensions made something theoretically better but just made it worse then when i started. thats the best way to learn fault finding thrown straight in at the deep end.
Wasn't real?? Wasn't real??! I still have a ringing in my ear!
@@dsesuk well if it's real or not the masochist in me kinda liked it. And wants more.
You can see David wincing in anticipation several frames before it hits........
I always love your videos, but I can't unsee you doing chores!. As they say on crimewatch, don't have nightmares, sleep well.... I think there will be a nightmare tonight :(
I was just (vigorously) wiping spilled Amstel off the front of my T-shirt.
@@dsesuk 😁
The 16th edition only required RCD protection for "sockets reasonablly expected to supply equipment outside the equipotential zone". The requirement for all sockets to be RCD protected didn't come in until the 17th.
Lucky you're a properly grounded fella Dave.
Very educational thank you David, quite easy to say “you need a new hob”
Crikey, imagine saying that, buying one, fitting it and finding it still trips!
@@dsesukI make absolutely sure that the appliance is faulty before advising a customer to get a replacement. A friend of mine told a customer that her range cooker was faulty, she got an engineer out to look at it and he couldn’t see anything wrong with it. It turned out the fault was with the cable connecting the cooker to the cooker connection outlet. My mate had disconnected the cable at the cooker connection outlet and IR tested upstream, as the fixed wiring tested out ok, he put it down to a faulty cooker and advised her to change it 🤦🤦🤦
With respect David……i was expecting my cooker to work after your inspection!
John Ward made a video about this same situation regarding the socket testers not showing certain wiring faults. So I knew that the socket was wired wrong but couldn't remember why till you explained it again.
What fooled us was that the wiring at the socket and fuse were correct. It was that intermediate point which threw us.
@@dsesukThat bit would have baffled me too 😂😂😂 Continuity test between both accessories, prove brown is brown, blue is blue etc.
I see you have one of ‘those’ shirts before they got pulled from the shelves 😂
Nice work Dave.
My sister in the US of A nabbed one from Walmart and sent it over!
Nick Bundy- the Spark who is light in the loafers......
I hope that recycle t-shirt is second-hand! Seriously though - very good video. Laughing and learning.
Good to see an upload. Wondered where you had gone.
I've been working on something far more complicated that'll be out in a few weeks, but this one was just a quickie to bung out there.
Great Vid Davo !
Good video David just goes to prove the value of testing every circuit fully and not assume things are OK.
Entertaining and informative- what more can you ask for ? Keep up the great work
I’m not arguing with you though David……THIS IS MY HOUSE!!
Thank you Mr S, these are your wheelhouse, excellent real world issues with a conclusion and "How to"
Hi. This is why your the master electrician….. now you can understand why that circuit was not on a rcd ……. The last wiring alteration developed the problem and rcd was removed
It takes an old spark to find these types of faults and a master of his trade
And as usual a good fact based video 👍👍👍
Always the diplomat Mr savery .another good vlog
I like to say what two or three other people are thinking!
A great informative video
Another informative video excellently presented. Even the 4 stooges at the end 😂
Cwoah dear! there's more drama on this channel recently than Coronation Street! Can't wait for the next episode post brick throw!
Never seen one of those circuits.... But yeah turn of the century estates are a fecking nightmare.... Me to sat nav: get me to the main through route, ASAP
I can see a future in new house building Estate PR coming your way
Hager! Fuck em!
Marvelous video. As always.😂
The sun don’t shine out of Hagers Rosey red arsehole!! 😂
Worth watching to the end
Nige was supposed to pick up the gag foam brick. Can't trust him to do a damn thing.
@@dsesuk I meant cus Nick featured. 😂. Nah only joking.
The subliminal message within the t-shirt. Epic
A gift from my sister who thinks I'm a c.....
...champion of green causes.
Hager pricing also doesn't reflect reality for three phase equipment. In countries where the domestic supply is 3 phase their three phase RCD's are about 50 pounds. In the UK the same three phase Hager RCD is about 250 pounds because 3 phase in the UK is only for commercial premises, not because of the actual cost of the RCD.
The fault proves 3 things; Murphy's Law, the fact you are actually human and not some electrical god, and that kitchen fitters are right up there with plumbers and innocent death row inmates; that is to say that they really shouldn't fucking about with electricity 😂
Here in Canada, the ground wire is bare or insulated with green. That's pretty difficult to mix up with neutral in white. Even so, I have seen light and ceiling fan wired with the ground as neutral and the white used as the second conductor, where a new wire should have been pulled in. I'm pretty sure that jenky arrangement is not up to code.
Nice one Nige 🤣🤣
Human soup warmer on an RCBO. Just picture a nice little get together with neighbours (or swingers) in the hot tub - all getting zapped (no RCBO) and then the heating staying on for a couple of weeks while they all decompose into a sort of slow-cooked stew!! You need to get your animator (daughter) onto that image! 🤮
Another golden nugget! Great watch
Sorry, I thought I'd censored out my nuggets in 'that' scene...
From Bespoke Electrical Love your CZcams show...love you to xxxxxxxx
Most kind. I shall spaff it on Carlsberg!
Great video. E-N faults drive you mad sometimes. I feel the same about kitchen fitters, particularly when they start telling you how you’re going to route the cables and site FCUs. Fuck off
brilliant bit of work. good job Nige was there
You can get socket testers that will test for reverse n-e at the origin of the supply (useful for TNC-S supplies). We use a Bicotest TruPol tester, and I believe that Martindale have bought out a tester for this purpose, these should detect n-e reversal at a socket outlet as well.
I'm not so sure Chris. Looking at the manual for the TruPol, it'll report a "N-E miswire" (i.e., missing earth), but there's no N-E reversal condition listed. With both connected together at the head and at the same potential, I don't see how any socket tester could report such a fault. www.bicotest.co.uk/datasheet/trupol_user_manual.pdf
As far as I know there’s no socket tester that will detect a reversed neutral and earth fault.
@@dsesuk looking at the tester, you were right, it is just the extra test to check the incoming polarity of a PME service connection (L-N/E reversal)
@@dsesuk Correkt. You can ONLY find that error if you apply a LOAD higher than 30mA. Socket testers don't draw that much current. Your MFT can do that. If you measure Loop Impedanz ZL-PE *and* ZL-N, you always will find that fault.
I like my Gossen Metrawatt MFT for this. If you measure ZL-PE, it automatically also applies a few Amps load to L-N. The RCD trips and the Gossen shows you an error message "N / PE Reversed!".
Brilliant video Davo! been there myself! Annoying situation!
Can I buy your Scolemore fridge please? 😂
I wonder if they regret giving that to me and their brand showing up in nonsense such as this??
@@dsesuk nonsense?? This is some of the best content on CZcams! I encourage my apprentice to watch your shit! 👏
I really enjoy these videos, awkward faults with an explanation as to the why's.
I'm glad someone else has as much passion for hating new builds as me. Goddamn greedy developers and corrupt and/or moronic local governments seem to be the norm now. Fuck other peopls quality of life, just cram them in, profit and quotas are all that matter. Never mind the actual humans who will live in them.
Also I'm not sure your editor is quite upto the job, I'm sure I saw a helmet in the mirror.
Sorry for the multiple comments David, but we state 'if we can remedy any C1/C2 faults on the day, we will do so up to 100 pounds value' (landlords are ok with this). Some sparkies think this is a conflict of interest... but it isn't if you have an ounce of integrity (i think you have a few)
Nobody ever says it like that…..apart from you….but I’m happy to hear team Bundy …Nick & Adam shout it out , in more a youthful tone ….cheers though Dave & Nige …..and enjoy the coffee or beer 👍💪🇮🇲😉😂
Perhaps I'll set a new (and annoying) trend?
@@dsesukannoying , not necessarily new…..lol 👍😉🇮🇲
BEfore carrying out extra work and charging extra to the customer, that you actually con sult with the customer first.
Yeah, I'm talking minor stuff - repairs or rejigs that take minutes like changing out an incorrectly rated breaker or replacing a broken accessory. Anything that takes real time would be noted on the report and quoted for separatly. Usually a phone call to the person ordering the report gets a quick clearance to proceed.
Còuldnt agree more with the town planners & spaghetti layouts, i recently ended up in 1 of these noddy town new estates and spent more time getting out of it than i did visiting the customer, sat nav didnt help either as it was a new estate. I did notice though that nearly every dwelling had "Ring" doorbell & plastic picket fencing.
I’ve seen this problem before, it gave me such a bad head I had to drink a bottle of scotch…. Fucking brilliant video old trip.
Thanks for tuning in as always old spoon.
Lots of commercial properties use the MEM boards and as you can imagine contractors are constantly changing circuits about so that will probably be what is driving up the price of those RCBO conversion kits. Ask a school/university with a 3 phase board if they want to pay £100 for a RCBO kit or replace the whole board .. you can imagine they choose the RCBO every day of the week.
IIRC the rights to the memshield 2 range were sold off to "kempston controls". They put out a press release with a bunch of BS in it, but the reality seems to me they are only interested in milking legacy customers, not in taking the range forward.
Even on a domestic, if you are only working on one circuit and need RCD protection so that your additions are compliant then paying a hundred bucks for a RCBO pod is still going to be much cheaper than opening the can of worms that is replacing the whole board.
On commercial I suspect you could easilly buy ten or more of the overpriced RCBO pods and still be much cheaper than the can of worms that is replacing a DB.
Haven't looked but are the pods Type A or the dated AC type rcd add on pods. Cheers
@@bramcoteelectrical1088 The pods sold today by Kempston controls are type A, as are at least some of the pre-takeover ones but I'm not sure if they were always type A or if they changed specs at some point.
Easily the best way to spend a Wednesday evening!
🍻
Most generous, thank you!
David Savery, best electrical channel ever so much better than that Bundy chap
Oy..! What about our contribution, we'll think twice about buying you any more liquid, we'll drink it ourselves 😋
An interesting fault though, we admit we didn't figure it out 🙄
Oh yes, almost forgot - 13:13 I bet the Tube will demonetize this one..! 🤣
You wouldn't want to be associated with this one - it's got nothing going for it with poor visial aids and the presence of Nick Bundy. Oh, and It'll probably get kerb-stomped by YT because of *that* scene.
@@dsesuk S'ok, we're only winding you up, you know we love you really 😘
The downside we had with those pods was a high failure rate of the test button. They would RCD test correctly with a MFT, the button just wouldn't work. I suspect dust or oxidisation on the button contacts. As a rule you only got reliable RCD tests if there was some circuit impedance present. You got odd readings testing them at the consumer unit, but testing at a socket the results were OK.
I've not experienced any button failures, but you raise a good point there. The way these things work is that when you feed the line wiring down through the pod to get to the MCB's cage clamp, that wiring passes through a toroid. The pod monitors the magnetic field on line compared with neutral and trips if the field imbalances. You can't test it at the CU because your line probe is touching the MCB terminal which is before where the pod is monitoring for imbalance. There's no connection point at all on the pod to access line on its output side, so you'd have to test it in-circuit somewhere.
I fixed the same, but different.
Followed a kitchen refit.
Washing machine not working, unless the kettle was switched on...
Go......
Mix up in the neutrals of the ring/spur legs
Ps
I've also sussed the MFTPRO no-trip = too low reading problem.
Loose nut on steering wheel.
Oh lawks-a-lawdy.
@@jimmjl Report to maintenance from aircraft pilot:
Pilot: Something loose in cockpit.
Mechanic: Something tightened in cockpit.
Dave, what's happened to your Maccas hat?
What’s the update on crazy lady mate?! That really was the funniest shit I’ve seen in a year
No update from my point of view as I've heard nothing else from her, however I did hear from a local plumbing firm who'd also been on the receiving end of her wrath and from one of her neighbours who is taking her to court after being physically assaulted. I've also heard that this wasn't her house; it was her late mother's property. Karen lives in Coventry and this property has been empty for some time. The lass has problems!
Before I was a spark, I worked for currys and was looking at why an American fridge was tripping the RCD each time the door closes. After 2 hours of finding nothing on the appliance, and eventually writing the fridge off, before I left the customer, I failed to notice a row of copper pipes behind the fridge running up the wall. One of the pipes was prouder than the rest. That pipe had voltage potential on it, and the fridge chassis was kissing the pipe each time the door got closed, completing the circuit and tripping the RCD. Found by fluke - not the tester lol.
Despite me proving the issue to the customer using a piece of wire to earth the pipe and causing the trip. The customer still stubbornly believed it was to do with the fridge - despite being unplugged at this point. I didn't bother to argue and just got out of there. At least by default, they got a new fridge out of it 😅.
A good bit of detective work there - and an interesting fault.
@@dsesuk Don't get me started on earth fault riddled freezer defrost elements that cause intermittent tripping, that is almost never detectable at the plug top, But rears it ugly head on the supply every 12 hours or so 🤬.
Hi David I accidentally replace my halogen bulbs with hallucinogen bulbs and now my circuit breakers are tripping. What can I do?
Ha ha, love it, I'm going to steal that one 🤣
but you found it any other spark would have put the rcbo back to the hot tub and said F it and put it in the observations took the money and run straight to that kebab shop, great vid,
Ah, good ol' Plan B! It might have come to that, but we knew it had to be a N-E swap somwehere. The tricky bit was finding where as the socket was immediately below the fuse unit, so it didn't look like an intermediate point was present.
my line manger was not happy about me putting pods on 6A lights , special locations but hay :0
That estate is a carbon copy of a place called crompton acres in nottingham , same design , same shops same mem boards , are the walls straw by any chance
Fortunately not, although there is an estate in nearby Bearley that is straw walls. Actually Warwick Gates isn't too bad to work on - it's all block walls and dot & dab, so easy to cut in new accessories normally.
That’s an interesting one David. Never came across anything like that myself, just go’s to show we need to check everything . Even look in cupboards and under sinks. And good to you give the 1630 a bit of a workout.👍
Great video as always mate 👍
A good bench instrument Sean - not sure I'd lug it around out on site though!
Go on be a devil. Just once to give it good workout. Get Nigel to do the carrying and you do the playing with it .
I still use the little socket testers all the time. Just need to trip all PowerPoint's on the circuit. If it trips then it's wired correctly. Aussie earthing system though
I like those Fluke ones, got the US version as well.
? What is the rcd tripping current for sockets in Australia. I've heard that the value may be only 5 milliamps in USA.
Was there any point in the intermediate point or had the kitchen fitter simply cut his cable too short?
The FCU was directly above the socket position, so you wouldn't know the connection plate was there, but it turns out the cable from the FCU darts off out of zone behind the oven, then returns to serve the socket. I presume the original intention was for a socket to sit behind the oven, then they changed their mind and fed it from that point to the cupboard.
@@dsesuk the work of an evil genius, hellbent on causing future sparkies confusion and despair, foiled by the mighty wit and intelligence of....Nigel.
(oh, ok, and yourself)
How do manufacturers get away with these incompatibilities? In the rest of the EN-Area it's a fundamental selling point for electricians that stuff is compatible. Many manufacturers even picked it up as a selling point. If I were you I would avoid any manufacturer that builds lock-in traps.
Anyone out there still using the Robin KTS 1630? Still my backup device and still going strong 20 years plus
I hadn't appreciated the 1630 was that old until I recently found some documentation online from 2002. There's a video from earlier in the year where I show it off. I like it, but it has a few annoyances that would drive me mad if used in anger - the dead/live lead swapping, the display clearing to zero a few seconds after any test and the lack of a memory for remembering the lead nulling value being the top three turn-offs.
@@dsesuk Agree with all of the above, can’t let go of reliable equipment that seems to always keep its calibration.
I had something like that happen to me about a month ago, the customer had swap two double sockets for two USB double sockets and connected the neutral and earth the wrong way round. My plug-in tester said everything was ok but the RCD would trip whenever anything was plugged into either of these two sockets.
On a job yesterday and the supply to their garage was a swa cable that consisted of a 6mm brown 6 x1mm blue with 6mm earth. So neutral is connected via 6, 1mm cables. I have never seen this cable before.
Anyone here know if this is safe. The load should be shared but it's bizzare. I don't want to have to change the cable it's it's safe and sits correct with the regs but I can't find where it's stated otherwise.
Cheers to anyone that replies
It sounds like a concentric cable. I've only seen it once myself as a supply to a flat, but it is used in distribution to provide supplies to buildings as in this case.
That sounds like "split con". There is a single phase conductor in the middle and then this is surrounded by neutral and earth conductors, with the earths being bare and the neutrals being insulated. The idea being that someone who digs through the cable will hit a neutral or earth first. There is no seperate armour unlike SWA.
It's used by the DNOs for TN-S supplies. Strictly speaking I don't think it's compliant with BS7671 for underground work on the customers side because BS7671 (unlike the DNOs) considers neutral to be a live conductor.
Wish all this info was available in 1966 apprentice years having to if necessary grovel for the unwritten law of sparking to get JIB grading “and pay , got it sorted,but left the trade a year later (21) for better money , time just flys “ like your videos about the game “ thanks
Gold at 13:10😂
To cut a long story short, the RCD on the circuit my dishwasher is on reduced the situation from me dying to having to apologise to my son for using a rude word. I would have died in one of those houses, i was sitting in a pile of water on the floor, reaching inside a dishwasher, way beyond my skill level in that I assumed internal parts would be insulated. Were they feck!
R1+R2 combined with an R1+Rn test carried out at all sockets would hav picked up the fault on dead testing.
Fucking Legend !!!
Eaton are all type A now. Amazing kit best tp&n boards made
You know it’s good when you watch it twice I couldn’t believe it first time round. O and by the way he looks and sounds like Greg Davies from the “inbetweeners” funny as f**k.
Everybody says that, trouble is I don't have a clue who Greg Davies is 😂
Google him he also has loads on CZcams -
Thanks
Very kind, thanks again Chris. I shall pish it up the wall!
@@dsesuk money well spent 👍🍷🍺
Top man...yet again.....what a bastard of a fault
Fixed ring has to be the dumbest thing ever (speaking as someone not really from that era) given that you would be omitting rcd protection to things that really need it ie appliances that deal with water and likely made of metal.
Agreed - and all for the sake of saving a few quid on a second RCBO!
Who's is the Triumph off to the right while you are having coffee with Nick Bundy?
That's Nigel's mid-life crisis.
@dsesuk Haaa hhhaaa, that helps explain the brick as well. I got a Blackbird when I had mine. Wife nearly divorced me. He just needs to get to the TT next year now.
I was trained to the 16th, RCDs were mostly only for sockets
The houses on that estate are mainly Memera or Tenby boards and, usually, it's only the sockets on an RCBO.
The RCBO probably tripped on the fixed appliance circuit so they moved it onto the downstairs lighting circuit.
@@alvina69 hah this is probably true
Agree about Hager, overpriced crap.
I don't mind 'em chagring what they want, but I haven't got time for all the sparks who get dewy-eyed over Hager and insist that's all they fit. It's nothing special. In fact, it's sometimes downright rubbish.
@@dsesuk David, what does 'chagring' mean..? 😋
Why are you using old colours on your diagrams?
Middle earth😂😂
Yes David we have all had that fault at one time or another 😯
Next time I will blame Nigel 😂😂😂😂
Love your antics 👍👍
RCD/RCBO off, or neutral disconnected at the swb, and a test lead to verify the earth polarity and continuity is the only way to test for this and is the first test you should do.
I come across this fault often when adding RCDss to existing circuits and all because people don't test properly.
Interconnected neutrals on separate lighting circuits where a two way is involved is a good cause of random RCD tripping that is hard to find.
Is Nigel changing career and becoming a brickie?
He used to be a brickie in his youth as you may have been able to tell from his handling technique.