Upper class insulation resistance fault-finding
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- čas přidán 16. 02. 2024
- It’s alright for you sat in your trampy little semi-detached because if you have wiring woes, simply slap up some new cable in oh-so attractive plastic trunking and you’re back in business. Not so here though, and it doesn’t help that the last guy made up his numbers...
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On the round pin stuff, arguably the fusing factor of 3036 rewireables is much worse than our modern 60898 MCBs, hence there is an additional derating factor (Cf) listed in 7671 and the OSG on Page 167 specially for just the 3036 rewireables (0.725 derating), so they're probably running under the designed in overhead of the BS546 accessories, but the 546 standard is yet to be updated with the reality that nobody is fitting rewirables anymore.
Also, had you not made yourself a little plug yourself, you can pick yourself up a UK to India travel adaptor. India still uses our 5a 546 plug (from my understanding officially uprated to 6a), and then you can hook up a standard plug checker/MFT to them as desired.
You mean the cooker radial based on the 'axiom' 32A must have a 6mm circuit?
@@ef7480 With 3036 fuses, you must use a 6mm2 for a 32a load, but you can get away with 4mm2 on a 60898 as long as it's clipped direct. That would probably be the best real world example of the cables being oversized due to the protective device taking longer to trip.
@@AndrewStrydomBRP- correct
Dave, I’m loving the ‘I slept in a skip’ look. Exudes genius.
Actually, it's a wheelie bin.
@@dsesuk That sounds comfortable (not) 🤣
As a older learner, your videos are factual with the right amount of profanity. Excellent work as always
And a handsome front man too!
It's the profanity that tells you you're dealing with someone who knows what they're doing.
The ones stood in a well lit studio reading off an autocue, with perfect audio are the ones you have to be worried about.
@@dsesuk that goes without saying! The Brad Pitt of the Electrical world! About the same age.
Brilliant vintage Savery playing cluedo in the big house 👍
Although I work in a slightly different field, the forged paperwork makes me rant too. Managers like the forgers, they are far more "productive" than engineers that are thorough and actually do the testing. I remember well a case where a specific piece of test equipment always time and date stamped the measurement data in American format, something a forging colleague overlooked when he edited an earlier document. Happy Birthday
This is the content i want to see, something you get your teeth into, alot better than seeing another fusebox looking beautiful inside, fantastic content Sir David
That cheerful look on your face when you found that lighting circuit fault was the highlight of the video. 👍
I thought I'd never get to the bottom of that sucker!
I’m at 27:32 , the whole family are loving the video so far, even got grandma involved. I hope there are any unruly surprises. ❤
Happy birthday and how pleasing is it to find a fault on a gaff like that, I had one recently on a big 15th century farmhouse which had me chasing my arse until the clients said they’d had squirrels in a certain part of the house, so they agreed to me cutting an access hole in a false wall and right before me the god damn varmints had chewed through 2 cores of a 3core 2 way cable!
Big smiley faces all around and home in time for tea and medals😀
Great content once again 👍
Excellent video David and it’s deserves a cigar for you finds! 😊
As always your work and fault finding is amazing 🤠
Thanks for a great video, interesting content as always, showcasing your knowledge and sharing with us, appreciated!
What a great channel! Very glad I found! Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Great Work Dave !!!
You’re a very smart man Dave
Happy Birthday David 🎉🎉🎉
Excellent fault finding video David-
Nuff said
56:07 couldn't agree more, if you're going to do a job do it right.
I'm in the IT game and I've been in the same situation where someones asked me for a price for the job and they've complained that I'm too expensive. Then they've gone with the cheaper guy, and a few weeks or months, depending, I've got a sheepish call from them asking if I can come in and not only fix the original issue, but also clean up the mess the other guy made of x and/or y. Which of course is going to cost more than just getting me in to do the job in the first place.
Sometimes customers are their own worst enemies. As the saying goes, buy cheap, buy twice.
Excellent vid david
The very finest of Saturday evening viewing! Always good to find a conclusive answer to these faults. Keep up the great work 👍🏽
Yep.....well done finding that fault a great vid as usual.....loving the hour long ones
Happy 50th Year David 🎉
Pure genius, good find.
Man of many skills and wonderful profanity throughout!
Found a house full of that green goo a while back it was dripping down the walls out if the switches and sockets; horrible stuff. Looked like Slimer from Ghostbusters had been round there. 👻👻👻👻👻👻
Happy belated birthday big boy!!!!
Happy Belated Birthday young sir. Lovely to see a video of some professional sleuthing. it is work like that which separate a properly trained professional from us keen DIY hacks and, it would seem, some other 'properly trained professionals'. Really enjoyed the investigative process and your humour.
The amount of C2’s on that report, he obviously thought he would be quids in on the remedials.
"I'm at the grand staircase". Strong "Jet Set Willy" flashback there. Excellent analysis as always.
That's a great Video, showing perfectly how a proper pro fixes what is actually quite a complex fault given the size of the property and number of ways. Good work 10/10 and a DSE merit award ;-)
You are 100 percent right Dave ‘if a jobs worth doing’ I appreciate it mate
More of this IR stuff please, very interesting
Good old Classic David Savery quality Fault Finding Mission Video, this is absolutely brilliant! It shows how rewarding it is to trace and resolve a fault. So the return path to the board via the metalwork of the bracket and light fitting was a bit scary, should anyone have touched it when on. Regarding your question of a 5A socket on a 6A breaker, having looked into it is my view is that it doesn't even need a mention as long as it is on a 6A breaker. Most of the sources I looked at were of the same opinion and let's face it, with modern LED lamps it isn't going to stress any equipment being used in the socket that is supposed to be used. i.e. lighting. You can't account for Darwin award candidates who put a 5A plug on their 3kw kettle. Even then the worst that can happen is that the breaker will hopefully trip before the cable goes on fire. I think your BS546 test adaptor is a brilliant bit of kit and still relevant, and something I will have a go at emulating. Have you spoken to Kewtech about it as is it right up their street, or TIS? A few months ago I had a newish property where the owner had floor lamps in every room via BS546 sockets, even the bathroom.
As for the Chockbox being used possibly indicating an electrician didn't do the downlights...... erm... I've seen NICEIC Approved contractors on big sites having them in the toolbox and using them. It's all to do with profit as they cost buttons over doing it properly. And, as you say, why did they even bother when the JCC connector block does a better job. Those double insulated pieces of crap usually from Next, John Lewis or M&S I find are great candidates for the Quickwire "Switch and load" connectors.
As for £700 for your 3 day EICR, I would say you're doing yourself short. The industry has been blighted by cheap EICRs that are definately not worth the paper they are written on and you highlight it well. Unlike my unwanted lengthy comments David your lengthy videos are very much welcome as I often point out but am backed up by your other roadie nerds. Have you decided if you are going to Ally Pally ELEX yet?
Wotcha Olly. Linda and will be at Ally Pally both days all being well. Will you be there? As for those choc boxes on this site, I suspect they were installed on halogen downlights and someone later fitted the JCC's. Rather than re-terminating them, they cut off the two-core to the halogen driver and fitted them into the JCC connector. That's my take anyway. You still get BS546 sockets of course - I've even been asked to install them before, however you'd think the manufacturers would have rated the plug and socket for 6A these days instead of it still being 5A.
@@dsesuk If I get the chance I will try and get there and buy you a pint (Linda can have a 0.0abv of course) I read the 5A sockets are still a thing in the likes of India ( Old Colonial days) and the BS546 standard for them over MCBs etc hasn't moved on and they are advertised there as 5A/6A nowadays.
@@dsesuk If you're not overloading them I don't see the problem. You're never going to be putting 5A through the average lighting circuit these days; perhaps when everyone had 100 or 150W incandescents everywhere, but not now. Look at radial power circuits; 20A breaker with 13A sockets, there's far more chance of overloading them with all the crud people plug in.
14.31 'This must be the I don't want to talk to you chair' 😂 fucking gold!
Happy birthday - happy anniversary.I hate ladders but I feel quite safe on people’s sturdy platforms.
It's funny with platforms, I always go jelly-legged but it's not because of me being up there, I'm always worried I'm going to drop a tool, tester or the client's light fitting!
This is soooooo interesting, and great to see videos by a professional that really seems to know what he is talking about. Occasional profanity makes it even more genuine……….
Happy birthday. And coincidentally I also got married two days after my birthday. My wife had a cunning scheme that I would never forget our anniversary, but now that I'v had a few more birthdays I don't tend to pay much attention to their imminent arrival so I'm scrabbling around for an anniversary card and present on only two days notice.
Congratulations & commiserations as you see fit.
happy birthday / anniversary old chap...
Happy 50th dave
I still have the mind of a teenage schoolboy and the body of a 60 year old.
Normally the green goo appears where heat is apparent such as a lamp holder where in the past it would have had 100W lamps or at dimmer switches. Normally just at those ends. If it’s throughout the whole run then it really needs replacing
Great fault finding.
Happy birthday Dave.
Thanks Stu!
Fair play for finding that ir low reading ,not sure I would of had the patience.enjoyable watch as usual
I was 'lost' in a place very similar to that for several years, until the retirement and change of estates manager. Then it was change of electrician, plumber, gardeners, roofer as the new broom swept clean. Yep, big old places like that keep a lot of people busy... About 3 years in I discovered a new-to-me DB tucked away in an eaves space. The wiring in a lot of these places is definitely a case of all fur-coat but no knickers. Not many owners want the upheaval of six months to a year of rewiring and making good, even when they can afford it. And even when they are abroad for the half the year anway...
Great detective work as always.
I had a horrible feeling the cause was that monstrosity on the wall just because it always seems to be the one fixture in the most inaccessible place!
Love the 5A socket lamp Dave you need to patent that quick!!!
Excellent video David. You demonstrated a very logical approach to the fault. I expect most home owners would not appreciate how many hours you spent on solving one circuit problem, and you are only 50! ( you must have had a hard life😊) Many happy returns 🎂
Tracing faults like this is what ages me terribly.
You are class mate, I love how you tell it how it is 👍 proper sparkys plain English, none of this beating around the bush and kissing sponsors arses 😀 , nice to see a proper spark doing ins res readings
Love the number at the bottom of your easycert cert 😂😂😂
Quite right poor software programmers.
like the image of the beginning so much.
I asked my artist to draw me in a top McHat, but she seems to have made me look like I've been dead for a couple of weeks!
No issue whatsoever with the BS546 sockets being on a 6 breaker. 2 amp were allowed on 5A BS3036 for lighting
Just looking at the pins of the 5A, they are about 3 times the size of the pins on the alleged 15A schuko sockets. I bet the 15A BS546 is good for at least 30A.
That was great job thanks 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉.
That’s some fucking good fault finding. You do love Hagar
Only just started watching, but I think I'd run screaming from that job 😵💫🤣
yea
It's not so bad if you take the piecemeal approach and go around tackling issues one at a time.
You edited this comment? You were asking if it was a 3 phase board?
@@londontrada Yeah, I realised it was obvious given the size of the property and when 400V got mentioned.
Enjoyed that thoroughly, cheers Dave - love a well documented sleuthing including the history, repair and challenges. Would love to know your full shitlist and what they do wrong on a video some day.
Another brilliant episode, thank you. I wonder why Wago don't make those new push fit through connectors round? Would make a neater heat shrink joint for sure, just a thought.
Very Funny guy I would have a good time working with you !
I've got to go & have a look at a job in Chelmsford. From what I've seen in photos from customer, VIR is in place atm, with 1980's storage heaters. Looks like it'll be a good little earner. 😁
Happy belated 🎉
Almost on a par with the 'manor house' David. Or, maybe "as good as.." Great content safe in the knowledge that the fundamentals never change. No need to respond to my drivel, I'm waffling like an untrained PC at a 'traffic stop'. It is Saturday night after all.....
There is another video still to be made on the Manor House as we did the kitchen last year. Goodness knows if I'll ever get around to it though.
Liked this video although i know its gonna be a hassle to solve the problems, it does get the Poirot juices flowing though and keeps that diagnostic grey matter in top trim lol.I wonder if they would consider kinetic switches which would cut down a lot of ball ache on the lighting etc.... As always great video Dave and was nice to digest👍👍
Kinetic is an option we have these days, thankfully, because we're not going to be able to do anything about some of the wiring on this site.
Fifty? How's that possible? I've always considered you to be some sort of master Yoda, whilst looking at myself as a young Luke Skywalker, but we're almost the same age! Anyhoo, great bit of fault finding. Always love following your thought process! Congrats to you and misses Savery!
I remember being 50... Come to think of it, I remember being 60 as well... 🥴
I feel your pain I also always seem to get jobs like this
I'm in......top man
Very useful to connect a CPC to a plastic box.
The under the stairs cupboard 🎉 😱
top video thankyou .
4:51 - Hey! That's my house you're talking about! My misses chose it because it is only a 5 min walk from the school... Although, it is a sh1t street to walk on lol.
Good video Mr Savery. Totally agree with the metal " double insulated" crap out there. How! Why! Also worry about old 2 core 0 earth cable having no inherent cable protection but, isn't half the world, and I see Doncaster Cables are selling in the UK now, insulated, colour coded cpc earth in ordinary cable doing half the same job. No rat biting through that will necessarily expose the earth when biting through the live and neutral. Madness to reduce protection like this. Not sure why you hate choc box quite so much they have a place.
Plus, what the hell is wrong with 5 amp lighting sockets other than the nomenclature. They are safe on 6 amp and make switched lighting circuits which are must safer than plugging in table lamps factory fitted with 13amp plugs and fuses.
Had a job to replace some RCBOs in a similar style of property.
Absolutely massive, lots of outbuildings, renovated in the 80’s at a guess…
Noticed there was green goo so made the homeowner aware
Suggested an EICR
Explained the issues of the goo
Heard nothing back.
Bloody good show Lord Davo Savo III, that's a quality job, love fault finding, keeps the grey matter going
My grey matter is normally swimming.
I think pickled would be the correct answer .. That little Hioki looks a nice bit of kit.. i use a fluke 1587.. as you say, saves lugging around a MFT.... how you finding that Metrel? must admit im not too happy with my Megger 1741
@@thattoolguy9432 To be honest, most of my work is done with a Megger 1552 or a Robin KTS1625, but then I have so many MFTs I like to chop and change for a bit of variety! The Metrel's a good bit of kit, but chews through batteries.
@@dsesuk I binned my old Robin gear , now regretting it.. not a fan of Kewtech even though it ex Robin employees, just reminds me of a fisher price toy.. hopefully get to play with some MFT's at Elex
cracking find grommit
Well done Dave ,You gotta love an analog meter…….i changed back to analog, I personally can read it and understand the readings faster than a digital one……maybe my age has something to do with that 😉
I demonstrated the problem to the homeowner by zipping in that screw so the needle dropped and I think that visually makes more sense than seeing a digital readout drop to a smaller number. There's something about the sweep of a needle that conveys more than a number on an LCD would show.
Sad I missed this but this house is the gift that keeps on giving there’s plenty of IR faults to sort out 😁
Don't worry Dan, you'll be back there son enough crawling around that attic full of moody wiring and bugs!
@@dsesukcan’t wait 😁
Re the slight Damage to the wall - a timber patress behind the fitting would cap off the damage. It could be finished to the colour of the paneling below.
It was nice seeing inside a plumbers house, how the other half live 😂😂
I'm not surprised the tower was wobbly. Only 1 diagonal, and staggered wheel heights...
I always do circuit names only first to get around the easycert problem. Shouldn't have to do it mind you but better than the alternative.
Guessing as the decor has had little updating, nothing else has. That pissed off, I want to go and rewire a garage look is familiar.
As I understand it, the old 5A circuits were transitioned to 6A and cables and accessories are permitted to be run at 6A even though prior to transition they were limited to 5A. The plugs themselves will carry more than 6A but are designed to be used with the five amp socket design. Would be interesting to see what they could actually carry safely, my guess is similar to a 13A plug since the dimensions of pins are similar and same for the internals. I fitted these in a renovation a few years back as the owner wanted additional lighting from table lamps and as they were elderly they wanted control from the main light switch for convenience.
I suspect I'm overthinking it, I'm just surprised that the new Click Scolmore plugtop I purchased to make my little light tester still carried a 5A rating.
Makes sense to me. You're never going to plug anything in to a lighting circuit that's carrying 5A so what's the problem..?
You'd need to look at the details like the connection between the pins and the screw terminals or the terminals inside the socket but overall BS 546 5A is pretty close to Schuko, which is rated at 16 A and will happily carry that for extended periods of time. The 15 amp variety has pins the same size as 32 A commando sockets, which seems slightly over-engineered.
I've come across several Properties in the late 60's that used Black Sleeving on the CPC especially on light switches, Although i am not an electrician by trade i have some knowledge as worked in Telecom industry. Housing Estate near me built about 1968 - 1970 suffers from the Green Goo.
The stuff we found here dates to the mid Nineties though - and they used black or red. I'm not sure why they just didn't leave it unsleeved if they had no green/yellow!
OMG, you can't leave it without any insulation whatsoever... What if it touched something metal! I am sure like the folk who cut all the lighting CPCs they have innadequate understanding of what the damn thing is there for. Lucky for us that we have delightful Dave to enlighten us.@@dsesuk
@@dsesuk I guess they assumed the CPC needed to be insulated rather than identified and thought any colour would be better than no insulation at all.
Mr Handyman ought to spend a day on a PASMA course. The ladder frames should all be on the trapdoor side of the tower.
And the toe boards should have been fitted.
Always Kit Kat, I’m surprised how many of these grand design style houses have shoddy or half cocked wiring.
Thanks
Generous once again old fruit, I promise to spend it unwisely on Strongbow!
The socket spur off a spur was changed in 1981 from 14th to 15th. Regarding the 6A protective device and the 5A outlet, the same with the 5A terminal blocks. Are you ever going to get 6A flowing through or out of a 5A socket? Anyway, nice fault finding Dave they don't teach that at college.
I put a Philips Hue light in my lounge last year that did the same thing as the light at 19:11 - supposedly a class 2 fitting with a metal enclosure, only if you're only bringing a single cable into it and terminating it inside the sleeving and connector block they supplied. As I had to bring single insulated cables into it, I ended up putting a fly lead and serrated washer on to an existing screw on the enclosure so that it could be properly earthed, but yeah, I can't imagine most DIYers would consider doing that.
I had the same kind of tiny connector box on the last fluorescent strip lights I ever bought, the cheapest anywhere to be found (a friend wanted to put lights back into a sign that had been gutted). The whole thing looked like it was designed for a single H03VVH2F flat two-core flex. If I remember correctly I used just that and a small junction box inside the sign to keep the whole thing double insulated.
All this lighting is off-the-shelf from China for a worldwide market and made assuming a simple two-core flex will enter because most countries don't wire their buildings like we do. The likes of Astro bang on about bespoke design and, I'm sure, charge a premium at retail through the likes of John Lewis, yet their luminaires clearly aren't being designed with the UK market in mind as most of their fittings are inadequate for the T&E spouting out of the ceiling which calls for modifications to that wiring to get the thing fitted. For all their bluster, it seems more likely they're picking and choosing luminaires they like the look of from whatever far-east factory is rolling them out, importing them, badging them, and claiming they're of a specialist design without any thought as to how they're going to be electrically installed when someone like me is finally up a ladder.
@@dsesuk Bloody China. Why can't we make stuff in this country any more..? 🤬
Love seeing that Hioki in action. Never thought of getting a small IR tester in addition to an MFT for fault finding. Out of interest, where did you leave those cut out cpc’s? I would be suggesting a change to plastic at minimum or C2 until rectified.
Very generous of you, thanks again! The severed CPCs are still there but at least the RCD protection is now in place. There are an array of issues to take care of at that site, some matey correctly identified, some he missed completely, but it's going to take a long time to tick off the list all the stuff I don't like. I'll repair what I can and I'll make the homeowner aware of what I can't, then it'll be their call on how to proceed which could be anything from rewiring, replacing accessories, figuring workarounds or leaving as-is if they make the risk assessment that they're happy to live with it. As for the Hioki, there are other handheld IR/continuity testers and I like having such. It means I can leave the hefty MFT back at the board with all its accessories and scoot about with something lighter and more portable for the basic fault finding.
Got to about 20 mins through the video so far. I'm not a spark but I get the feeling that this place could probably do with either a partial or full rewire.
See your point about assessories rated below the rating of the protective device regarding the 5amp lighting sockets.. But realistically it never going to be overloaded with one table lamp plugged in.. No code from me
You need to go for the Tunnocks
Caramel Log is the best
24:24 - I see you're a fellow Huel drinker 🙂
My house is full of Astro lights 🤣They make some really nice looking fixtures. Fitting them takes 2x longer though.
That's the trouble though Steve, they look great, but they're a ballache to install properly!
I to am part of the wedding birthday club got married the day before my birthday.
That looks a lovely abode be a shame to start chasing walls out rewire you say that’s going to cost a fortune even if they agreed to one.
Oh the anxiety!
I once had heated arugment with a clients old handyman/ bodger who was adamant that the only function of a cpc was as a cable stripping aid.
He refused to accept any concept of earthing as to quote all my electrics work just fine!!
Darwin Award candidate by the sound of it 😵💫
Why are you arguing with the handyman, if you’re gonna argue with someone, let it be with someone who’s technically qualified.
Unable to Find = Can't be arsed to Find 😆😆😆
It's a complicated and sprawling site to familiarise yourself with Dickie, but yes, tracking down what a lighting circuit is doing isn't too troublesome. Simply turn on all the lights, then see what goes out when the breaker is flipped!
= customer unwilling to pay more.
Fluke may the force be with you……and the resistance 😂
Looks like Ed Gein in the thumbnail.😁
I see Dave now has a new under stairs 'office' for his onsite work....
Lock me in and throw away the key!
Projects like this is what Quinetic switching was designed for. Used it several times in similar instances. Can help you out if re-wiring isn’t easy. Great vid as usual David. What camera do you use? I’d like to set up a go fund me page to buy you a ring light!
I'm using an Insta360 camera which I'm not a great fan of!