My Thoughts on the RUST Tragedy - Protocols Save Lives!!
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 10. 2021
- Prop Master Scott Reeder discusses the protocols that were breached on the set of the Alec Baldwin movie RUST that led to the death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injury of director Joel Souza.
Tags: rust movie, rustmovie, prop weapons, prop guns, prop firearms, Halyna Hutchins, Joel Souza, Alec Baldwin, Rust Tragedy, Rust Police Investigation, Dave Halls, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, Armorer, live ammo, live ammunition, Prop Master, Property Master - Krátké a kreslené filmy
That’s what baffles me is there any situation where there would need to be a lethal bullet on the set, not to say blanks can’t be dangerous.
Never should there be a live round on set.
This is a good question. I would imagine not but what do I know.
Just ask Jon- Eric Hexum .Sorry poor choice of words.
@@pepelemoko01 His wasn't a live round, just a lack of respect for the weapon. Even blanks are dangerous at close range.
@@markcoleman9892 If remember, he was playing Russian roulette. Deer hunter caused a lot of accidents at the time.
Although we know this channel for its lighthearted content, this incident was no joke. We thank you for your insights on this serious matter and your consideration of your fellow film/television industry professionals.
@CLOV3R713 a person died because of this incident and you think it's hilarious?
@@anameer11 if baldwin wasn't so anti-gun maybe he'd have learned how to make sure a gun isn't loaded before pointing it at another human being & pulling the trigger. it only takes 30 seconds, but seems that woman's life wasn't worth 30 seconds of alec baldwin's entitled hollyweird time. seriously, fk that guy, the buck stops with him cos he was the end user of that gun & HE DID NOT CHECK IT WAS SAFE BEFORE POIINTING IT AT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING & PULLING THE TRIGGER FFS.
@@papalegba6759 Did you even watch this video?
@@papalegba6759
You're not too bright, are ya?
@@papalegba6759 It's not Alec's job to check the gun. It is not part of the official procedure. The reason for that is for scenes when they have to switch out the gun in mid-take. That way, the actor can stay still and make it easy on the editor in post to match the shots and make a seamless transition. Try to know what you're talking about before going on a rant. Someone died and all you're concerned about is stigginit to the libs. GFY
As AvE said, safety protocols are written in blood.
Damn AvE is a smart man. Thats one heavy quote. Its true.
Who?
@@SandeepKumar-wb9vg czcams.com/users/arduinoversusevil2025
Nah, you mean OSHA.
Fucking love that man
When I was in college I was (among other things) the "weapons master" for a show we were doing.
Everyone including stagehands and all actors had to watch a theatre firearms safety video with knowledge test after.
Even though it was a total prop weapon incapable of holding projectile rounds (it didn't even have a functional barrel) I made sure that thing was treated as though it were real every time. I counted rounds, called campus security to inform them of simulation gunfire, and had the theatre director show me how it worked so I could safely clean it and clear it if he was busy supervising his class students. (I was a work study employee).
Firearms safety is so important even if you never intend to use a weapon yourself.
Was I over-the-top? Maybe, but maybe not.
Bless You! you were not over the top, you knew proper gun safety! It really needs to be taught to all, like firearms or not. With our rights come responsability.
You can never be over-the-top when it comes to gun safety. Regardless if it's a real gun or not. Even when handling an airsoft gun, you have to follow the 4 basic rules of gun safety.
@@stonemedia8901 The basic rules are different for acting, as explained in the video above. But they are still strict.
@@johndododoe1411 Gun safety rules are applicable for ANY guns, whether live fire guns, non-firing model guns, or solid resin prop guns. Can't be "too safe"!
@@johnmullholand2044 Stop being a parrotting idiot. The rules for doing pretend on a film set are specifically modified to allow creating guns that look deadly to anyone watching the movie, including experts. So everything that makes the gun not deadly must happen off camera, and thus must follow specific safety procedures that are not visible on the stage. In particular the gun must look and feel loaded. And require a very close inspection to confirm that it can't go bang. Some reports have said that the Rust film set used casings that had an inspection hole facing away from the camera and hidden once in the chambers. Specific people had the duty to inspect each cartridge before loudly announcing that this is a gun with no gunpowder. They failed in that duty. Someone else had the duty to provide the gun with such powderless dummy rounds and probably failed in that duty. Finally a 3rd person had a duty to ensure nobody messed with the gun between being handled by the other two people, if the person loading the gun did their duty, then the person guarding the gun must have failed in that duty. Finally there is a chain of command duty to ensure everybody did their duties, which obviously failed too.
It's interesting to get the breakdown of how it is ment to go, and where the failures happened
a thousand percent! well said :)
Such simple little steps that, being skipped, amounts to complete and utter negligence. If 'look at this extra carefully' and 'stand here unless this 1 other person is already standing here' are too difficult for the armorer, prop master, and AD to follow, maybe they don't belong on a movie set. The more information that comes out about this, the more directly at fault those 3 people are.
What's worse is Jensen Ackles just recently brought up firearm safety concerns on the 'Rust' set because of shit like this, but a young woman is dead because not 1, not 2, but *3* people in the chain of possession for these weapons, supposedly 'trained professionals', all collectively couldn't be bothered to do their jobs. If even ONE of them was paying attention or knew what they were doing, the danger would have been noticed.
@@Ryan-bi5mz, anyone handiling a firearm of any sort should know how to properly handle a gun!!! Unless maybe a water or nurf gun!! Gun safety is taught through out the country and mostly by parents of gun owners!! Nobody tells the handler that the gun is safe , NOBODY!!!!. Baldwin should have educated himself on guns before handling them on a movie set and killing someone!!! Don't try and blame this on anyone but Baldwin!!! The buck stops with him!!
@@stevehamman4465 I disagree, the 3 people before him are there and hired/responsible to ensure the gun is clear, not Baldwin.
@@suffersystemstudios , don't touch a lethal object of you don't know how it operates!!! Please let this sink in so this doesn't happen again!!!!!
So just to clarify, the BBs are just there to be able to audibly verify that the bullet is a dummy round, because if you shake a real bullet, no sound, so if you hear BBs, there's no way it's packed with powder?
Correct
For informational purposes, powder does make a sound. It's just not nearly as loud as BB's.
That’s not necessarily true. Lots of calibers can be shaken and hear a rattle. For instance many rifle rounds do not fill a fraction of the case capacity. Depending on the type of powder used, one can hear it shaking around inside the case. Some powders are discs, some are balls and some barrel style pellets.
@@grntitan1 The rattle a dummy makes is distinctive. Plus, I like to use dummies with blown primers. That’s a second tell tell sign.
@@ScottPropandRoll I was wondering why there would be a primer, using a blown out primer or no primer seems like a good way to differentiate the dummy rounds from the blank rounds. Unless they needed to be seen loading it and the primers were visible. Easy to check in a revolver, swing out the cylinder or open the loading gate and verify before using.
I was very tempted to ask your thoughts on this but refrained out of respect because I was unsure of how sensitive a subject it was. Thank you for doing this video Scott.
I've worked on a few smaller sets with prop masters and I have never met a prop master who wasn't insanely anal about their props and where they go/are stored. The fact that this happened means so many things had to go wrong. I appreciate your insight.
Insanely anal??
@@acornflake5074 It just means, in this case, incredibly particular.
@@acornflake5074 Yes. It can seem "insanely anal" because 100% compliance with protocol keeps people safe.
As he should be. Think about just a normal person who carries a firearm... They would never let you touch their weapon (unless you're on your own property). Many states have CC laws where you aren't allowed to have any part of your weapon showing. Now imagine it's your job to let these actors handle a bunch of weapons when most of these people are _super_ anti-gun & have never handled a firearm in real life, or had the seriousness of carrying/handling a firearm impressed upon them, nor do they have any knowledge of firearms in general, and thus, have no real respect for them. You can get a glimpse of this by Alec's explanation that the gun just fired itself... without the hammer cocked... This is a double-action revolver mind you.
Lol me too, including simple, non-lethal props.
THANK YOU. I am familiar with dummy rounds, blanks, and live rounds, but i was not familiar with the protocols for how they make sure a live round isn't mixed with dummy rounds. I've used snap caps for training, but they are colored differently and have an empty space where the primer goes. I was really wondering how the armorer on set could positively determine if a dummy round had powder or not. the bb's inside the casing are pretty genius. Knowing that Rust is a western, i was assuming it was either another Brandon Lee accident, or it was a dummy round/live round mix up. On top of that, there were unconfirmed rumors that someone took one of the prop revolvers off set and used it to fire live ammo prior to the accident. I was also wondering if they clear the bore or not as protocol (to prevent an obstruction from launching out).
This ended up being the nightmare scenario it seems. A live round being mistaken for a dummy round in a close up shot in a western with a revolver. I have some friends the movie industry, and they've always told me that live rounds are never allowed even near the set on top of all the other protocols they do. One of my friends in particular usually demands solid rubber prop guns whenever possible despite them looking not as good on camera at times.
I can only hope that the results of the investigation are made public so that everyone can learn from this. I think even the most amateur film maker learned a massive lesson from Brandon Lee's death and there were so few accidents after that.
Wow. You and I are hearing the same rumors. I’m interested to see if it’s corroborated.
@@ScottPropandRoll but wouldn’t removal from the set not matter if they’re required to check the rounds and guns before use? if that was truly the case someone had to have completely ignored everything that they were required to do on set! that’s beyond making a mistake, that criminal negligence territory…
@@bostonrailfan2427 that's the thing, with gun safety i've never known of a single incident that didn't involve multiple safety violations. that's why there are so many layers, this should have been prevented by 3 or 4 different measures, but all of them weren't followed it seems.
@@Kamel419 it's mind-boggling that a live round even ended up on set, let alone in the revolver & pointed at a camera operator. just don't know what to think about this situation, wait for the investigation i guess?
Apparently it was a regular thing for extras to take the "prop" guns and use them for shooting practice between takes. Which means most of the "prop" guns had been loaded with live ammunition multiple times and were being left unattended regularly.
You were one of the first I had in mind that I wanted to hear from on this. While we get a good chuckle from your content, you also seem to know your stuff. When all, us average Joe's have to go from is the media and the "wealth" of knowledge from internet "professionals", it makes it hard to understand and get a true picture of how things had and should have played out. Thank you for the insight and at the very least, the understanding of the protocols and why this incident is such a big deal.
What probably made a big difference is when the film company decided to hire scabs to do the work instead of the union workers who were essentially fired because they were protesting the working conditions and safety on set. You saw how that worked out with scabs. Remember film crews and workers work long hours especially when the shot you want needs to be perfect for the director or a particular action scene is filmed. Even when there is long hours you don't skimp on safety. You cut corners on safety, you get results like this someone dies.
The main function of a union is preventing company from firing employees who deserve to be fired.
@@tophan5146 No.
Thanks for this video. The fact that the gun was taken off set for recreational use the day before had me so angry. I've never worked with real guns but even if it wasn't a deadly weapon you don't do that with any essential prop. I'd fire someone for taking a lead actors hat off set but someone thought it was okay to take a lead actors gun off set. It feels wrong to call this an accident when there was clearly negligence. This was preventable by following existing rules. Such an upsetting thing to happen.
Only reason to take the Gun off set is that either it is ti do a Test Fire, as a Gun still needs to be able to function to fire Blanks, or if it was a Donation.
Donation is most likely, as the Donator or Donor would want the Gun back for Target Practice or they want to ensure their property was taken care off.
If it is found to be a Doner Weapon, only excuse I can see for taking it off set was the Prop Master let the OG Owner of the Donated Gun use it for a day to do his Target Shooting, on the grounds he returns it to the set when hes done.
But what do I know, I dont have the full facts
If you've never "worked" with real guns then stfu your opinions hold no validity here
You're only partly right. The negligence isn't in using the guns for real off set... not necessarily anyway, although I see why you argue it... the negligence is not checking the barrel before taking it back/before they used it like he said. Actually it wasn't a live round that killed them... the last real bullet that was fired from the gun was under-powered, and the bullet got locked in the barrel... we call that a squib round. If proper firearm safety was preformed by ANYONE then it could have been avoided... so that's where I say the negligence was, but squib rounds are just about the scariest kind of malfunction a firearm can have, because the only indicator of it in a revolver is going to be that the last shot had less-slightly less recoil... and it's not the firearm that does anything wrong... squib rounds result from ammo that had something go wrong at the factory... and it's incredibly rare. Lots of experienced people get their hands blown off because of squib rounds.
Unfortunately the gun on set DID fire a blank... and the squib is what killed them. If it had been a live round there's a good chance the gun would have just blown up... nasty stuff, but there's a chance it would have saved a life... Although it could have still killed them, and blown the other guys hand off so kind-of a crap shoot.
For once on this channel...no pun intended.
@@CazzyVR thank you for responding with information relevant to my comment.
@@hotsauce4169 that is a very poor take.
Thank you for an honest interpretation of the facts known and the procedures involved. There is so much misinformation flying around this that it easy for a layperson to lose track of what happened. Also, thank you for such a professional and heartfelt handling of the delicate subject.
It reminds me of aviation incidents, which are often found to be a chain of missteps that could have been broken at anytime but weren't.
The risk of being shot and literally killed by an actor holding a gun being used as a prop on a set should be zero. I appreciate your clear outline of the standard of firearm use on set. I'm saddened by this accident and for the burden of grief the family must bear. The process of safety is in place to mitigate the risk of cascading mistakes that can compound into a tragic incident. It didn't happen here. Each mistake made the next cascading mistake outcome worse. Sigh.
Thank you for clearing up how this procedure goes on set. So many different stories of why what happened happened and while this doesn’t answer that, it does answer what should have happened.
Thanks Scott, tragic negligence. My father's Armour cart was ALWAYS padlocked. And my mother is a scripte and to hear that the script supervisor was standing right next to the director when he was hurt, hit home.
Thank you for giving us the info on how this is supposed to be handled
A thoughtful, serious, hype-less description of this tragic event. Thank You.
No such think as an accidental discharge. Negligent discharge. One or more of the 4 rules of firearms had to be breached in order for that to happen.
Just about all of em had to be breached.
At least one of them is usually breached during recording (never point at anyone you don't want to hurt). That's why the weapon master must make sure the gun cannot hurt anyone long range
@@JohnathanJWells I think that generally they don’t point the gun at anyone. As much as possible they work with camera angles so that the barrel is pointed in a direction but not AT a person. And in situations like this they should have been watching the shot from a monitor.
Someone on the set should have seen what Alex and Halyna were doing and stopped them due to gun safety rules of not pointing the weapon directly at someone. The weapons master was forbidden from being there so presumably the ADA should have been the one overseeing the safety of the set.
'no accidental discharge' really.
Newington-based gunmaker SIG Sauer is facing a new lawsuit brought by 20 people - including federal agents, police and civilians - who say they were injured when the company’s model P320 pistols fired without a trigger pull.
Yes accidental discharges happened just ask the twenty or so owners of the Sig Sauer p320.
The lawsuit is the latest in a series of legal complaints filed against the company, each claiming the pistol has a design flaw that leads to unintentional discharges of the firearm, occasionally while holstered. Plaintiffs are calling for the gunmaker to make safety design changes.
A thing I find frustrating is that media is calling it a “prop gun” well if it can chamber and fire a live cartridge.. I think that’s a real gun
The word prop does not mean fake. It is short for property (theatrical/film property), which is an object used on stage or screen by actors during a performance or screen production. In practical terms, a prop is considered to be anything movable or portable on a stage or a set, distinct from the actors, scenery, costumes, and electrical equipment.
Prop doesn’t mean fake. Prop is short for theatrical property
It’s a prop gun because one of their own killed someone. Get a homeowner defending himself or his livestock and they are real guns. The guns fault. I love how no one is blaming the gun this time around. Blaming people. It’s funny. We don’t blame the people when they shooter up Chicago. What a meme
@@BigTuna18 stop projecting no one even talked or hinted at any of that reactionary politics lmao, she literally just didn't know what prop meant. Annoying ass politic nerds.
prop doesnt mean fake
Thanks for sharing.
The first moment I heard about the news. I thought what would be Scott's take on this. This is literally your world.
Also thank you for not jumping the gun to immediately give your opinion with out any facts presented. Makes your stance that much more respectable! :)
I am writing an essay on this for my English class for college and this video showed me details that I had not considered yet. Thank you so much for explaining this in a way that is easy to understand
For the past few months the film workers union has been threatening strikes because their workload has been crazy since the studios are trying to make up for production time lost to covid shutdowns. When people are working 12hr+ days for weeks at a time with no days off, the first thing to get compromised are the 'details' like safety protocols. Thank you for describing those protocols and not speculating about the incident.
If i remember correctly, this incident occurred after non-union workers were brought in to continue production during those complaints.
I’m curious to know HOW a life round made it onto the set? Super sad story, thank you for the insight!
You mean at least three live rounds. Alex's stuntman shot two rounds days before this incident.
There are many reports that the propmaster, the armorer, or someone related to them took the gun for some target shooting in the desert and returned it with a live round in it. I can't even count the number of breaches of protocol
That’s the question we are all desperate to know. Somebody either didn’t do their job or somebody did exactly what they planned to do. Either answer is unthinkable when we talk about firearm safety.
@@steelbluesleepR if that’s the case then that’s a clear negligent manslaughter charge in my opinion (not sure what the exact wording is in that state)
@@SD-oi9gr I could be wrong, but I believe the term might be negligent homicide.
I appreciate you bringing your expertise to this discussion. We look to you for laughs and fun, lighthearted behind the scenes looks at the silver screen. But at the end of the day, you're a comforting voice as well as a voice of reason and knowledge. Thank you.
I'm glad you're showing your opinion. As a person on who creates props for movies you would know the proper safety protocols and guidelines for prop weapons and how they did not follow them at all
Thank you for your input
It's an ND.
Accidental discharge Edit
An accidental discharge (AD) occurs when there is a mechanical failure of the firearm. This can include things like firearms that do not have mechanisms to render them drop safe falling a sufficient distance,[1] a firing pin stuck forward,[2] a sear failing,[3] or rounds heating sufficiently to spontaneously ignite in the chamber (as may happen in a closed bolt machine gun).[4]
Negligent discharge Edit
A negligent discharge (ND) is a discharge of a firearm involving culpable carelessness. In judicial and military technical terms, a negligent discharge is a chargeable offence. A number of armed forces automatically consider any accidental discharge to be negligent discharge, under the assumption that a trained soldier has control of his firearm at all times.
It is neither of those things
@@Kyrelel pointed a gun at someone and it went off it's got to be one of those.
Your definition of ND is unclear on one point: Is it ND if one soldier is negligent in safing the weapon, causing it to discharge when another presents it in a drill? Imagine a heavy gun emplacement rather than a sidearm to get a chain of actions.
@@johndododoe1411
If you do something that causes a discharge, then it's negligent discharge.
@@PiousSlayer Exactly, it’s always a negligent discharge. No such thing as an AD.
Thank you for this sensitive and thoughtful insight into such a tragic incident. There’s been some truly tasteless reporting on it, and you have explained it with pure class.
This was refreshing a legit take from someone in the industry . It’s a tragedy and I don’t think people realise the affect their assumptions have on people on set.
Hey Scott! Love your video! Excited to be so early!
Your a good man with a big heart and even though the details are hard to hear, it's probably on all of our minds just how could something like that happen. Thank you for your professional insight and I hope anyone who reads this has a blessed day. My heart goes out to those that were killed/injured.
WoW, that was clearly a breakdown of protocol. Thanks, for a breakdown without a bunch of fluff.
Subscribed! I have watched many of your shorts on YT. Thank you soo much for listening to our requests. You are the only I could rely on in regards to given insight with your professional expertise. Thanks again so much! ❤️
I have absolutely no idea what this incident was, but from context clues all I can say is “oh no…”
How do you not at this point
@@austinhernandez2716 some people just don't pay attention to news?
@@austinhernandez2716 some people don’t watch CNN 24/7
I had no clue either until my boyfriend informed me of the events.
@@austinhernandez2716 I’ve been resting and sleeping for most of 5 days now, I caught a really nasty head cold. Also I don’t get time to check the news anymore
Yeah, what happened here is quite strange. I mean, back in the days it wasn't uncommon to use live rounds when filming something that got shot up, but these days there's no reason to even _have_ live rounds on set, there's a ton of different ways to get around muzzle flashes, spent casings being ejected, bullet impacts and what not. I've been in the SFX business for 16 years and not even _once_ have I had to use live rounds for anything, how a live round could even get on set is a mystery to me, I can't think of a single reason to even consider using something like that. And then of course there's the whole Brandon Lee story, but you'd expect that people in the industry have learned from it, so something like that shouldn't be able to repeat itself, dummy rounds cost hardly anything and can be cast by the thousands in just about any material if you need a lot of them. Again, there's no reason to even _have_ live rounds on set these days, but it'll be interesting to hear what the investigators dig up.
I mean it seems pretty obvious. This was the individuals second job. A job she most likely only received because of nepotism seeing as how her dad is in the industry and the exact job she is working.
@@poorlymadememesubs1390 Did you 2 watch the video. The AD handing the gun to the actor was required to do specific safety checks, designed to prevent both live rounds and the Brandon Lee stuffed barrel scenario. He called out that he had done so, but hadn't.
They were using the gun off set for Target practice using live rounds, they also found a fanny pack with live ammo on set
I mean, I'd prefer Blanks to a CGI, CGI is good, but there is something nice about Movies that arent afraid to use Practical
@@CazzyVR Couldn't agree more.:-)
Thank you for going through what the usual protocol would be when using a gun like this. That is something I've seen lacking in most mainstream coverage of this tragedy.
Thank you Scott. I've seen your videos and appreciate them. When I heard about the tragedy, I truly hoped you would put out a video and discuss from your point of view. Thank you again so much for explaining this.
As a gun owner, if I were an armorer and I had dummy rounds to look good on camera, I'd have a barrel full of sand and I'd dry-fire that revolver 6 times into that barrel before handing it to anyone. (Gods help me if there is a machinegun on set.)
... this is just awful on every level... such a tragedy.
There is no reason to even have cartridges in that shot. A modified cylinder with just plastic or rubber, wood or plastic tips showing would have also worked. There is no reason to use a real firearm on set since prop fakery is pretty good.
@@orlock20 it's cheaper and automatically authentic. And if one has an issue a replica can be found quickly. The underlying issue isn't using a real gun. In a country like Japan this would probably never happen. The underlying issue is that the country's populace has a culture of disregarding safety. That's why it's relatively acceptable to drive drunk or just be a bad driver, and why people flag each other all the time
As a prop master you would follow the procedure to the letter. You wouldn’t go off and do your own thing. Notice how we carefully describe the exact protocol one would use.
Apparently the assistant producer did not follow the procedure.
@@neilkurzman4907 Nah you right, I feel it.... it's just... so much HAD to have gone wrong... so much
@@orlock20 I feel that. the dummy cartridges having lil BBs in them is genius... but maybe even... i don't know... rubber snap-cap primers so it's easy to SEE the difference?
... do we, as the audience, care so much about "realism" that we cant suspend our disbelief just a tiny bit?
Alec Baldwin must be traumatised that this has happened. It's a terrible tragedy all around. Thank you for this detailed explanation, Scott.
And he bears some responsibility as a producer.
traumatised by his lazyness to make sure everyone is safe as the trigger puller and the co producer
It looks like Baldwin was actually “joking” when the director wanted another cut and he didn’t want to do he shot in the direction of the director. He had no reason to believe it was loaded but still that’s careless handling on his part. Many people fd up for this to happen, but if he really did handle a revolver that carelessly he bears responsibility, as well as being a producer. Not that it matters, we all know he wont even get a slap on the wrist.
I don’t understand all the coddling of the producer, Alec Baldwin. He was responsible for this project. That he happened to pull the trigger, isn’t even the main point. We should feel sorrow that the cinematographer has lost her life.
@@cameronjellison2085 the ppl using this as an opportunity to slag off Alec Baldwin because he hates Trump are just proving that MAGAs truly are deplorable ppl
I'm glad you spoke. Thank you for that information. 🙏 to the loss.
I was one of them that asked and you feel through. I was happy to hear your take on this and what should of happened. There's better understanding and it's just all around great. Thank you for doing this.
Thank you for sharing an informed perspective.
Thoughtfully and tactfully addressed. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Thank you for taking a step further than you intended with this channel to inform us all better of the potential situation. It is indeed early days in reports yet but your professional knowledge of how a situation like this should play out safely has been greatly informative to us clueless viewers.
Thank you so much for your true heartfelt words on this horrible tragedy. Your love of what you do really comes through while explaining the protocols of using props. Keep on doing everything you do, and God Bless✝️
Thank you so much for your insight I knew I wasn't the only one who asked, but you are really one of the only open source of movie/TV prop culture that we would be able to get some sort of professional opinion on the matter.
Going forward, it would be nice to teach every actor the basics of gun safety. It’s 3 or 4 rules (depending on who you ask) and you can learn them in less than an hour. The person handling the firearm should still be subject to firearm safety protocol, and be able to double-check, even if redundantly, if the gun is loaded. We should not take chances.
Not only that, but it would help the actor's performance by being educated on firearms (not unlike their character most likely).
In the case of certain shots, it may be difficult not to break some rules such as "never point a weapon at anything you aren't willing to destroy," since movies often simulate aiming at shooting at cameras or at other actors on camera, but I agree with the other rules. Treat every gun as if it were loaded (w live rounds), Know your target and what's beyond it, Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
@@RatherCrunchyMuffin That rule cannot be followed 100% of the time. You tag yourself every time you holster a pistol in an appendix holsters, for instance. What's important is that both you and the person having the weapon pointed at them both had a chance to inspect it and confirm that it is completely clear since at least the last time it entered your sight.
It strikes me as a very bad idea to have actors "testing" or "checking" the safety of props.
It could also lead to problems regarding where blame lies when things go wrong.
@@seigeengine It’s an even worse idea to tell another actor (or director) to put their own life on the line over the alleged safety of an item (I refuse to call real guns “props”) that a third person has checked. Even the best professionals occasionally make mistakes. That mistake can be a take that you will have to scrap and redo, or a colleague that you will have to bury. On the latter case, I’ll opt for redundancy of safety precautions.
Thank you very much for the information about how to work safely on set. It's very interesting and helpful.
My sympathy goes out to the families and crews where these rules were not met.
Thank you for the clear and concise explanation, sir.
thank you!! you're immediately who i thought of...your well done and informative videos have allowed me to come to trust your work and insight, so yeah, i was hoping we'd get to hear your take. thanks for sharing..definitely a touchy topic but i feel you executed this as good as anyone could 🤠
It hurts my heart that numerous protocol breaches contributed to the accident, yet identifying just one of them would have likely prevented the accident. With more than one breach identified, it will be interesting to see how the legal system paints responsibility.
I watched your video on prop guns literally a day before that happened. I kept wondering how that would even happen after everything you taught. Thank you for the knowledge!
Your explanation was spot on Scott, why was a live round on the set to begin with and who were the people responsible for those weapons? They should have never been unsupervised and if they were cameras should have been on them at all times, if that’s not possible they should have been locked up with one person, one key.
Rest In Peace Halyna. It’s such a tragedy that she died due to others not following seriously vital protocol. She will be missed 🙏🏼
Wow. You are literally an expert in this field. It's just odd how right up your ally this story is. Thank you for sharing your views. :)
Thanks for explaining this so thoroughly. I saw your video a few days ago but saved it until I could watch it properly. I knew your insight on this incident would be the most informative.
Thank you for putting your professional thoughts into this situation. What an awful situation.
I appreciate your insight on this and I wish people would stop placing blame without hearing any facts. People have really been tearing into Alec Baldwin when all he did was act. Leave him alone, he probably feels bad enough already.
Exactly the man is literally losing his mind from all the guilt he’s feeling.
I think a lot of people are laying into him because of the irony of him being so outspoken about gun control and then accidentally killing someone with a gun. That being said, I agree with you that the response has been very disproportionate and it’s not nearly as much Baldwin’s fault as it is the prop master or first armorer’s fault. He was handed a gun that simply was not checked diligently enough, and because he’s the most visible aspect of this case, he gets the most flak.
He was in charge of the production and allowed all the horrible safety violations to continue like they had before, it's outright his fault that live ammunition was on set, something which has been against all studio rules for decades.
I am going to ask, are there times when someone along the lines of production keep pressuring you into skipping protocol (aggressively) on any of the sets you worked on
It’s the same as every line of work. There will be times that happens. But you have to be the bigger man and refuse to bow down to the pressure. Especially with life or death decision.
The phrase that makes me instantly distrust any employer is "health and safety gone mad." The first experience I had with an employer who said that was my first ever job. I was tasked with compressing rubbish from a packaging service and I didn't feel safe doing it without safety gloves. My boss looked at me and said "if you wanna buy them then I won't prevent you wearing them." I held out on the principal that the law states that they should be provided. A few weeks later someone else doing the same job sliced into their hand on an improperly disposed box cutter. Got over £3000 in compensation from the court. All the boss needed to do was buy a pair of garden gloves and the whole thing could have been avoided. Ever since then I think people who are hesitant to take safety precautions are not fit for any position above anyone else. They cause harm and cost money.
Yes a holes every where
@@froggyfan and the higher up here was Baldwin. He was the producer. He is responsible.
@@PD-we8vf Baldwin was A producer out of multiple. I haven't heard if he pressed for rushed procedures or it was some of the others.
Thank you so much for the explanation. It’s hard not knowing about on set protocols and reading articles about this tragedy and trying to understand where it all went wrong. It is shocking and sad that there was such a fail in protocol in so many ways. My heart goes out to Halyna’s family ❤️
Such a good guy.Glad to be part of your CZcams crew.
I was wondering when you was gonna release a statement on this. It's a shame that the most basic and important procedures weren't followed. I'm curious if you believe anyone should be charged with negligence resulting in death because of so many safety protocols being broken.
If those protocols are well known in the industry and are "standard" protocols yes. The real problem is how did a real bullet made his way onto the set IMHO
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
they will slap him with involuntary manslaughter and in new mexico thats 18 months max. but the judge will probably make it less than a month or just probation lol
@@StepanderTheKing that’s what I’m curious about I don’t think they should use real rounds in the first place if they want bullet holes and stuff get a better prop master with connections I guess…
@@acornflake5074 to do bullet holes you either use a drill and other tools/paint/whatever, or if you want for some reason a real bullet hole you prepare your props OFF SITE, or at the very very least outside of the working hours, with the counted number of bullets, and if there are spares those are locked and guarded by someone
Yes sir I totally agree
I am glad I waited to have this be the first video I watched on the matter.
You explained it clearly, calmly, and seriously.
You tell us what should happen and why, and what did happen and who.
Thank you for sharing your expertise all the time, and this time particularly.
Thank you Scott for discussing this.
Thank you for your nuanced, knowledgeable explanation of the process. This has been bugging me because I do a lot of stuff with dummy and blank and live rounds and I couldn’t fathom why hot ammo was anywhere near the set.
One thing, does the dummy ammo still have the primers knocked out like you see with belts that are just worn like in Saving Private Ryan? You can see the empty primer pockets on the 30-06 in the cloth belts.
This was beautifully and tastefully done. Thank you Scott.
Tragic loss. Thank you for explaining
It’s dark to say because of what happened, but I was kind of looking forward to this just because of your expertise in the field.
So was I... i figured this is how the video would go... freaking idiots on the set... i hope people boycott the movie.. who knows if they will even finish it.. it might just get cancelled...
@@CL-yp1bs If they cancel the movie, then that means a person died for nothing. They would have wanted the project finished.
Stuff like this makes me angry .. my thoughts and prayers are with all three families involved. They will never be the same again.
Thanks for shedding some light and giving your insight into this tragedy.
Thanks for making this video. I think it’s important to hear from people like you so tragedies like this can be avoided in the future.
Wether your videos are long, short, fun or serious the content is always great. Keep up the good work!
Again, Scott proving that he is one of the few people in Hollywood that understand and respect firearms for what they are. I only wish that the crew on Rust was as knowledgeable and as cautious as him.
A big issue Eric and other Hollywood actors have is thinking guns are ultra giga evil, so never learn how to use one properly and safely
@@Brent-jj6qi exactly. Like Daniel Craig thinks no one at all ever should have guns and so because he has no interest in it he runs around in his movies with his booger hook on the band switch.
@@spacechimp3199 the sad part is it would take 5 minutes to have someone say the rules, 5 hours or so for it to be drilled into his head, and would stop someone from being put to sleep for 5 eternities.
As someone who regularly shoots and carries everyday, I know the fundamentals of gun safety. An actor does not. And protocols are different on a movie set than at a gun range or real life. It’s been frustrating to see my fellow 2A people speak so smugly about what they feel should/shouldn’t have happened on set. Thank you for this breakdown.
This is why the question of where was the armorer/prop master, when handling guns or dangerous stuff there should be always an expert supervising.
I've seen an awful lot of people blame Alec as well. Have whatever feelings you want about him as a person, but to blame him for this is just disgusting. They act like he should have checked it like he would even know what to look for or is expected to be the one in charge of firearm safety.
@@SilverEye91 i strongly suspect that he was a bit anxious to get the shots done and get out thus possibly rushing everyone, but this is purely others’ actions responsible rather than him being a diva
@@SilverEye91 as the one producing this and using the gun he should. It's a revolver It's not rocket science.
@@TheRealWilliamWhite I don't know what world you think this is. But if the expert says it's safe people tend to believe it is.
Thanks for the coverage. I always appreciate when a professional weighs with a quick breakdown like this.
I wish the news media would get more information from experts like Scott.
I know this is a video about something serious but watching your videos and not hearing a dad joke at the end is downright scary.
It’s a serious subject and I didn’t want to diminish the importance.
@@ScottPropandRoll I understand completely.
@@ScottPropandRoll And kudos to you for saving your response until you had some ACTUAL information that could be analyzed, instead of just engaging in premature speculation. My condolences for the loss.
I feel like as an armorer and someone who would ultimately be responsible for the weapons and ammunition, some procedure should be in place to individually test every dummy round by attempting to fire it into a clearing barrel to be absolutely positive the dummy rounds were in fact inert. This seems like it should be a daily procedure when unloading the props for use at the beginning of the day. I'm unfamiliar with the industry, but the fact that something like this didn't/doesn't happen seems extremely negligent. Solely relying on the specific sound of BBs in the casing wouldn't satisfy me.
The same safety can be achieved with the BBs inside the dummy rounds.
If it rattles it's a dummy
My dummy rounds have dimpled primers and I also pull the trigger in a safe direction 8 times to prove they are inert.
@@ScottPropandRoll Was going to say, I'd assume dummy rounds wouldn't have an actual primer.
@@ScottPropandRoll What is the actor's responsibility when holding or firing a prop gun? Do the layers of safety protocol extend to him/her?
I remember an incident back when I was in the Army in 2007 in Hawaii. We were preparing for a deployment so we were getting more range time across the brigade. I was in maintenance on a range when we heard the news of an incident.
Back then we did Glass House drills. These were drills focused around clearing rooms. An infantry unit had come off the range and were conducting these drills at 1 AM. A soldier was running through the drill and accidentally shot and killed one of his NCOs. They had just come off the range at night and both he and the range safety officer had failed to assure that all weapons got rodded off the range.
Rodded off the range is very similar to what Scott did here, they run a rod down the barrel of every single rifle going off the range to ensure that they are cleared.
I appreciate the clear, simple explanation of the protocols. Thank you!
I did not consider this. Nice video dude.
Do a review on Alec Baldwin
I’m just glad Alec is innocent of any wrongdoing. That poor bastard can’t catch a break.
???
I’m so damn glad he did a break down because there has been so much miss information about what really happened
Yea I’ve see way too much false information floating around and people acting like they know how gun is handled on a set that it’s nice to actually hear what should have happened and who should have checked the gun from a professional
Growing up around guns all of my life in Texas, I'm having a hard time understanding how this could happen but it's a testament to your profession that this doesn't happen more often. I forget proper gun handling isn't common knowledge for everyone. Thank you for your take on this.
There probably wasn't real live ammo on set, what probably happened is, being a low budget production, they improperly converted live rounds into dummy rounds by simply removing the powder charges but forgetting to remove the primers. Even though the powder was removed, a primer still has enough force jam a bullet into the barrel if struck, and if the prop master/armorer isn't doing their job and checking that thing after every take, there's now a live bullet stuck in the barrel that's about to get launched out the end of that thing at lethal velocity when you reload it with blanks full of extra powder to make them look big and flashy.
This is called a "squib load" and its *exactly* how Brandon Lee died while filming The Crow.
If that *isn't* what happened, however, the negligence from there gets only astronomically worse. The only other thing that could have happened is an actual live round somehow made its way onto the set, and ANY kind of live ammunition should be a hundred miles away from the set at all times. I can't think of a single valid reason to have live ammo on a set where prop pistols are being used other than to record sound for ADR and foley... but if you're going to record live gunshots for the foley work, that needs to be scheduled for either an entirely different location or an entirely different day where no other filming will be taking place!
“Squib” not squid.
I’d like to see some (safe) tests regarding whether a blank can push a squib with enough force to pierce a human torso and injure another behind it.
@@mathy4605 Technically this is how Brandon Lee was killed. :(
@@TacticalBurritoSystem not technically, that’s actually how he was killed.
Wrong. They had live ammo and were shooting targets during breaks.
Been eagerly awaiting this, to know what's _supposed_ to happen on set.
Question is, Alec Baldwin is the producer, so is he still essentially liable for what appears to have been quite a disorganized operation?
You would need to ask a lawyer that one. Seems like one that Attorney Tom might actually be interested in covering since it is a catastrophic personal injury case at this point. He would likely hit the cast and crew with his knowledge hammer and cover where the likely liability is to be, but given it's an ongoing investigation and case he may not cover it at all until it's closed out.
Interestingly he’s probably more liable as the producer than he is as the person pulling the trigger.
@@MinistryOfMagic_DoM I understand the deceased cinematographer's husband is a well-known attorney. This will be going through the legal system, without a doubt.
@@MinistryOfMagic_DoM I agree, this is right in Tom’s wheelhouse.
Been waiting to watch your take on this. Thank you for posting
I’ve been waiting to hear your insight on this horrific event. Thank you for providing us how the weapons should have been handled.
I know you may not see this, but I hope you do because this is a question that's been buzzing in my head for years. Do you think that ETCP will create an Armorer safety certification program, even if it's tiered to account for different levels of training already and/or split for edged weapons and firearms separately like they split rigging between theatre and arena categories (but obviously you can get certified in both)? Ever since ETCP certification launched, I have wondered if they would ever see the benefit of adding props safety, and more specifically prop weapon safety. I even talked to the folks at the USITT booth nearly every year.
I know it wouldn't fix things overnight, and this accident is a sign of so many problems that need addressing and public attention (because it's just not safe working 16-18 hour days then driving an hour commute home or to your location hotel).
For what I've heard about Hutchins fighting for improved safety measures, it seems a way to honor her legacy of excellent, compassionate, and courageous leadership to find routes to create systemic change will keep protecting others moving forward. So certification programs for safety in prop weapons; industry wide, well enforced regulation about the presence of a trained armorer for any day that weapons are on set (and if they *walk off set for safety concerns*, no weapons may be utilized without fines big enough to make production pay attention to safety concerns raised); reasonable working hours with real time to recover; means of protecting (physically and in terms of career) any crew member reporting concerns to production staff and/or the union safety line or police authorities as necessary.
I know there's so much more, but that's all my tired brain can make semi-coherent. Sorry if that all comes off rambling. I just can't stand that her legacy is, at this juncture, going to be "the woman Alec Baldwin shot" and not the incredibly creative and skilled artist and brave leader she was.
Alec Baldwin the actor isn't culpable. But as a producer, Alec Baldwin is culpable for not hearing out the numerous prior safety complaints from the crew. Corners were cut under him, leading to the union crew walkout and hiring of scabs.
Well, he is also the person ultimately firing the weapon. You should not go on anyone's word for this kind of life or death stuff. Good practice to run a quick check every time any weapon enters your hands. And that goes for all set props. You want to make sure you're hitting someone with the fake or dull version.
I agree.
I think it’s crazy that this guy was recommended to me like a month ago and then this happens and it’s the perfect person to explain it
I really appreciate hearing this information from someone in the industry, especially someone I follow regularly. Thank you for helping inform the public from your point of view. It's a truly horrific tragedy that should change how people see gun safety in the future
Thank you for your comments. Do you think that the walkout that was done by union members before the shooting will ultimately be part of the cause? And do you think the actor can be held liable?
Thank you for sharing your insight on how the process should go on set.
From what I read the union members who walked out were camera crew, not props or the AD which wouldn't have had any direct connection to the accident (though it might have been indicative of larger issues with the production).
I do believe charges of criminal negligence will happen because that would have been the third real bullet fired when no live rounds should have been fired. Alex's stunt double shot two live rounds.
@@orlock20
His stunt double fired live blanks. Not real bullets. And at this point in time we don’t know that it was a real bullet.
@@neilkurzman4907 From the distance he'd be standing and shooting towards the camera, a blank wouldn't have killed her and injured the guy. It had to have been real.
Why in the hell would they have a "prop gun" loaded with LIVE ROUNDS on the set?? There is absolutely no reason why a gun being used to shoot blanks would have live rounds in it. This is really messed up. Intentional? 🤔
Well if you watched the video you're commenting on, he explained they are using old west revolvers and when that's the case they use REAL revolvers not prop guns. The issue was the live ammunition that should've never been on set and deeper than that the fact thalere should've been a chain of people who all checked everything to make sure it was all good. This was all explained in this vid but clearly you're not much for listening and just one for commenting.
@@zacharyleduc6002 They were prop guns, because they were being used as props.
from what i've read, "prop gun" in the industry can refer to real, operational, unmodified guns. it doesn't always mean "fake gun".
Not only that, Alex's stuntman fired two live rounds days before when he wasn't suppose to. No wonder people were walking off the set.
@@orlock20
The problem with the term live round is apparently to a prop master that means any round that has powder in it.
Which also includes blanks.
I appreciate you talking about this. I know I asked you about it in another video, but I didn't really expect you to be able to speak about it.
Thank you for sharing your insight & knowledge on this sad moment.
First, thank you for sharing your thoughts and providing insight into the protocols that should have been followed.
Second, as a lifelong gun owner, hunter, and former competitive shooter, I would like to add that, if Mr Baldwin had spent as much time learning basic firearms safety as he did criticizing responsible gun owners, he could have been a final safeguard against the failure of those protocols. For example, when the gun was handed to him he could have opened the revolver and checked even a single round, or he could have not violated the sacred rules of treating firearms as loaded and never pointing a weapon at someone. I know in Hollywood you sometimes point a gun at an actor or camera, but why the hell did he point one at his director? Yes, a number of people failed in safety protocols and should be punished per their level of responsibility, but Baldwin chose to point a gun at someone outside of a filming scenario and pull the trigger. It wasn't an accident filming a scene, but an intentional act of pointing a gun at another person outside of the scene, which is disgusting. The only time, outside of a Hollywood scene, that you should ever point a firearm at another human is in defense of your life.
This Jacob.
But the camera has an operator who stands near the camera.
Stop blindly repeating the rules for non-movie use of guns, mixing in your personal hatred for Baldwin and ignoring the thorough procedure explanations in the video you comment on.
@@johndododoe1411 the procedure that was thoroughly ignored, on a set Baldwin was EP of and which had already experienced several prior accidents with the guns? Those ones outlined here? Yeah, I watched the whole video and read the news that continues to paint a clearer picture of the set conditions.
Also, basic gun safety is not just for off-set. When dealing with a real gun, not prop gun, as in this instance, you follow the rules, and doing so here would have prevented this tragedy. Other actors even have weighed in stating that they don't handle a gun that wasn't cleared in front of them, something Baldwin clearly didn't follow. He is partially responsible for the tragedy.
My opinion of Baldwin is regarding his advocacy outside films, he is actually one of my favorite SNL actors and I absolutely love his performances such as in Hunt for Red October. I hope that he continues to act, but that he learns a lesson regarding gun safety and ownership. Otherwise this tragedy is a total loss if no lessons are taken.
@@johndododoe1411 Actually, my initial response to this was too nuanced.
Let's put it this way: rules were in place and not followed, allowing this tragedy to unfold. Now, should people be able to rely on those rules on set? Yes, absolutely they should.
However, my point can be summed up in a different question: Had the golden rule of guns been followed: "treat every firearm as if it is loaded", would this tragedy have occurred, yes or no? The answer is clearly "No" as if it had been followed, Baldwin would never have pointed the gun at a person, even though he thought and truly believed it was empty or loaded only with blanks, and when the gun discharged through the negligence of others, nobody would have been hurt or killed.
Hopefully this better explains my viewpoint, separate from my feelings about Baldwin's advocacy position, and why firearms rules ALWAYS apply, whether in a movie or elsewhere, when working with a real gun and not a prop.