Why Anakin and Mace Windu BOTH FAILED as Jedi | IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS
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The one thing that is positive about the EU being removed / changed is..
Every Jedi has seemingly had a padawan or old master at some point turned to the god damn dark side.
It really clouds the story of the Sith.. or they need to explain why so many were falling to the darkness over this period
Because the Jedi order was dogmatically dysfunctional, taking children away from their loving parents and brainwashing them to be emotionally numb until the proverbial damn bursts and the padawans go nuts. Not to mention any personal drama on the Padawan's part.
Anakin was mentally and emotionally unstable and compromised so Mace Windu definitely was better prepared for conflicts as a Jedi
Yet Windu is the One who led Jedi to extinction because of his hate towards others. Anakin, Ahsoka, Jar Jar being some examples. The council was directly responsible for Shmi Skywalker’s death. Responsible for Ahsoka leaving among other things that affected Anakin the most. He was constantly rejected and derided by the Windu led Council.
@@hadikhan5197 That's a little harsh. Windu meant well, but he embodied everything that was wrong with the Jedi in the Clone Wars era, from hubris to a feelings of moral superiority and invincibility to focusing more on politics than on the Force or humanitarianism.
I’d go with mace since he isn’t prone to emotional outbursts that would effect his judgement unlike anakin
Hmm there is one scenario where macevtoo was emotional enough to affect his judgement....that is office duel woth palpatine where it was written that mace loved the republic and was enraged at ehat palpatine did
Mace was prone to outbursts, when it came in the name of the Republic. And massively prone to hubris.
@@YoungHarlem110352 yeah there were these in plenty
@@YoungHarlem110352 not as much as anakin was
@@Orto-jj2di i mean hes still a sith lawd so i'd be mad too
I believe at the point in time your comparing them your wrong. Anakin quite simply had nothing that could handle vaapad or shatter point. He always relied on brute strength and against both of those that would fail. He was good with the lightsaber even without using the dark side but not good enough to overcome Windu. He 100% had the potential to be much greater then Windu but could not get out of his own way. Windu's rigid adherence to the jedi code was certainly a flaw but not so much in combat. I'd definitely give this one to Windu.
I agree. Mace was just much more mature and able to think his way through problems whereas Anakin like you said relied on brute strength and sometimes tapping into the darkside, which of course mace could overcome. In a duel between the two I think Mace would taunt Anakin, trying to fluster and frustrate him which would lure him to try and use darkside powers in which Mace would easily best him.
@@Alien00420 Anakin was his own worst enemy. He was hot-headed and struggled to keep his mind clear in a fight. His arrogance and overestimating of his own strength prevented him from seeking out and learning from his betters. And his aggression was uncontrolled and drove him to simply attack when another approach might be better. Personally I feel he'd be a rather shoddy jedi if it wasn't for his status as the choosen one and his raw force potential. After his defeat and transformation into Vader he became more cautious, less reckless, and his skills more honed. That's why he was so deadly as Vader. Anakin simply had too many flaws to ever truly come into his potential.
Wtf haha mace windu taunting anakin. You guys are ignorant. Anakin just killed dooku by only skilled with a lightsaber the best swords man in the order after yoda. Yoda was going to choose dooku or mace to take his place and anakin defeated dooku with looked like no sweat. And anakin can over come vapid just with being such a badass in the force he won’t need to get mad at all because anakin is so ready for this fight he’s probably been waiting for it and his confidence his on another level so I don’t think anything mace could say can make anakin lose his cool. Anakin only loses his cool off the battle field if you watched the clone wars every lightsaber battle he is cool and calm because he knows he can take everyone. He has so much raw force potential that each fight made him grow in strength. The force is connected to lightsaber combat not every being can master the lightsaber. So…anakins force potential was so huge that his lightsaber combat would increase each fight. Anakin would probably not overcome mace with lightsaber combat but neither would mace anakin would probably have to rely on his strength in the force and mace can’t overcome that
@@DeaDdYk3 First off Anakin didn't kill Dooku with pure skill, he had to use his anger and tap into the dark side. It's one of the events that set him on the path to the dark side in the first place. Secondly, Anakin was the chosen one, not the legendary super saiyan. He had a lot of potential but had to train to realize it, not just get into a fight. Thirdly, his arrogance and his whole hearted belief that he could beat anyone was a weakness not a strength, that same arrogance is part of the reason Obi Wan beat him and Obi Wan was weaker then Mace Windu. Fourthly, while using his anger and the dark side to over power his opponent worked on Dooku against Vaapad it would be his doom, that very strength would be directly turned against him. Windu won against Sidius despite all his knowledge of the force and raw power, raw power that was greater then even Yoda's. Anakin as he was in the prequels wouldn't stand a chance. The only reason Windu died was because he was too focused on Sidius to sense Anakins betrayal, a suprise attack like that is the only way Anakin could take out Windu at that point in time.
But the guy that trained me my whole life I won’t beat because he know me to much
I hope the origin’s of anakin’s first lightsaber gets covered in the upcoming padawan novel. It would be so interesting I think.
Round 3 would go to Windu. He was a lot more emotionally stable and sure of himself. His allegiance to the Republic and the dogmatism he possessed doesn’t change who he is per say.
Honestly this may be interesting because anikan wasn’t fully aligned in the dark side sure he got angry and taped in to it but he was very much loving to he really didn’t fall deep into hate so windu vapid may not be as true as it was against sidious because sidious was all hate no love no compassion no good emotions or goals
I’d really like too see in the future Mace Windu surviving officially canonized, and having a show down between him and Vader that would be awesome! That could be an epic and very meaningful battle. That could be an important without having to have Vader and Obi Wan fighting again
Maybe in Kenobi question mark?
More likely Boba Fett will be the one to kill him if he is infact alive.
@@TrashPanda90914 that would be fitting since it was Mace that killed his father.
@@TrashPanda90914 Given how Boba is now, he'd probably made peace with what happened.
anakin skywalker was such a unique and special case, i’m still confused as to why the jedi council allowed kenobi to train him instead of someone more wise, powerful. perhaps that different training could have taught him to control his emotions
Because nobody wanted him, he was deemed to be dangerous. Without obiwan's obstination, Anakin would 've never been taught in the ways of the force...in the lightside anyway.
@@sparxedwards8 I agree because they had more in common than people think and more in common than they both perhaps knew or wanted to admit.
ORDER 66
what i still don't get, is why anakin never walked away from the jedi order ( i mean like asoka did)
Ego, he always cared and wanted their approval.
I think windu would've spanked him, his ability to skirt light and dark is a huge advantage! Team Windu✊
In pure Attack and defense sparring(for fun and experimental testing) both are matching, yet it depends on who gets the expert tag with their metalic cylinder poles for swordplay.
Anakin's Most Experienced as time is Ataru as a padawan until past knighthood maybe next is Shien(tight-sweep for deflecting), and started Jdem so When he knew around Young adult, around the time during the attack of the clones, I don't know when Anakin practiced Soresu exactly.
Anakin Skill with each form:
Jdem so- Masterful
Ataru- During knighthood skillful and competent...(Does many dodges flanking is done)
Shien- I think Masterful deflector, survived all encounters in the clone wars with laser fire, yet in a dueling sense is on-par with his defensive swings
Soresu- This helped Jdem so, Competent.
He paired His strength of Jdem so and the fast-paces swings of Ataru during his last duel with Count Dooku.
It is said that Anakin practiced thousands of Hours of Dueling with Obi-wan Kenobi during his time with him.
Anakin Sparred with Yoda, Obi-wan Kenobi's Soresu,(during clone was at the temple with Asoka "maybe"), (What about Shakk Tii, I wonder if there is any.)Any other Jedi that he Sparred with or dueled.
Not sure if you already made this video but I’m curious on your thoughts or theory if Ashoka went to mustafar instead of Obi Wan to confront Anakin?
I AM THE FAILURE
I don’t feel like Mace beat Sidious more so that he was playing up weaknesses in order to get Anakin to move on his behalf, which he did and ultimately fell to Darth Sidious being a freaking evil genius 🤔.
buddy this has been proven incorrect multiple times by multiple people who were part of the creation of the prequels. honestly I don't get why people hate the fact that mace windu was able to beat palpatine. especially when a compeltly logical explination has already been given.
NNNNNNOOOOOOO
Cool vid
Like all of the Jedi at the time their ability to use the Force was Diminished and clouded by the Dark Side of the Force, so Mace wasn't at his best trying to take on Sidious. With that in mind Anikin was essentially able to catch Mace off his guard. In a battle without help I am not sure if he would have lost or not.
In Legends Continuity and formation Dooku although he fell to the dark side never fully emerged himself in it like most other sith did and yet still remained powerful and skilled enough to not be able to be easily defeated by Sidious And Yoda be it in force powers and lightsaber skills or unarmed combat yeah
Anakin would rip him to shreds.
Potential is one thing, making full use of it a different thing all together.
I agree
Anakin would have creamed Mace Windu, even if Anakin used the dark side💯
I'd like to see matchups between less than competent force users.
And anikan was more powerful when he was angry i mean look at revenge of the sith against Duku, Duku was able to hold anikan and Kenobi off with ease until anikan saw Kenobi being ragdolled and than being taunted about having hate and being to stupid to use it and soon as anikan stopped holding back and fell into his hate his focus got stronger his strikes got heavier and faster and when he was hell bent on be heading Duku he smashed through Duku guard and won
But that wouldn't work against Mace Windu. In fact it would be quite the opposite.
Windu was all that was wrong with the Jedi at the time, he was arrogant, self entitled, a blind follower of the republic and absolutly deaf of the will of the Force.He was a good person, but out of touch with what was truly right to do.Also, what he said to Ahsoka at the end of season 5 was absolutly bullshit
And Anakin wasn’t?
We’re all entitled to our opinions
But look at this again without your personal feelings
@@tonywright9906 Anakin wasn't a master and was heavily traumatised.He had all the pressure on him without the help of anyone but Palpatine (which was obviously a bad influence) and Padme (for who he had forbidden feelings).Obi Wan understood his pain but couldn't do enough to save him. So yes, Mace and Anakin aren't on the same boat at all
@@leonardorossi1543 Pressure?! There was none.
He could have sought the council of many Jedi masters. All he had was Palpatine?! That was the problem and a lie. He had the Jedi.
Anakin didn’t want to listen to the council of any other Jedi master because Palpatine was telling him what he wanted to hear instead of hearing the truth.
Again I say and Anakin wasn’t?
He thought he was better than Yoda which he could never be.He thought he was better than any Jedi.
Yeah he had a rough temple life and who hasn’t?
The difference is Mace was in control of his emotions his feelings himself. Anakin was not.
Mace couldn’t bring himself to kill Dooku
Anakin on the other hand not only took his hands
But also took his life. The difference is if Dooku was too dangerous to be left alive then Palpatine was also truly too dangerous to be left alive as well.
Regardless of a lie to save her from a certain death in which he Anakin Skywalker himself murdered his own wife.
You see Power didn’t sway Windu to betray the Jedi
He knew the power of the dark side and his own darkness and yet it didn’t persuade him to turn.
Unlike Anakin,immediately was influenced persuaded and became tunnel visioned on the power to save those he loved from certain death.Ignoring the fact that not only that Sidious didn’t know of the power
That he wouldn’t teach it to him if he wanted to.
Anakin turned on a lie, a false promise of power.
Where as Jedi Master Mace Windu would not.
I understood why he judged Ahsoka so harshly do you? In the end he was wrong and admitted it
The Force does put you through many trials and tribulations just like real life does.
Ahsoka when you look at it really failed at her trial for knight hood when she refused her padawan beads back and decided to leave the Jedi Order.
She wouldn’t have perished if she stayed with the order she would have died if she remained Anakin’s padawan.
@@tonywright9906 See the movies and the series again before commenting, just a friendly advice
@@leonardorossi1543 Don’t need to.
Take your emotions out of it.
What he said to Ahsoka was right.
Mace did the right thing.
It was her trial and in the end Ahsoka just wasn’t a true Jedi.I saw it all a 100 times every Jedi faced a trial similar to what Ahsoka has went through and triumphed.They remained Jedi. True Jedi.
Mace Windu didn't disfigure Palpatine he broke the ability Sidious used to hide his appearance, showing what Palpatine looked like the entire time.
Episodes 3 novelization states otherwise. Sidous only hid his sith eyes. His face was damaged by the lightning
Im pretty sure mace would have destroyed anakin at that point. He didnt have his pain amplifying armor so his rage wasn't as intense. Mace used both sides of the force also. Mace could have made him mess up just by talking about padme.
1:37 looks like Woddy Harilson 😂
I think you broke that down pretty fairly
I'd say it's a toss up in the Force ability category because while Anakin could pull off some truly amazing feats, Mace could use Shatter Point to capitalize on any weakness, which would have worked wonders on Anakin if Anakin wasn't careful. I honestly think it would have all came down to a matter of pride. Would Mace be able to turn Anakin's arrogance and anger against him, or would Anakin remain centered so as not to give Mace the satisfaction of beating him and proving him right about everything? As strong as Anakin was when he was fueled by rage and the Dark Side, his fight with Obi-Wan proved that blind rage combined with arrogance can lead to the downfall of a superior warrior. Mace would have been able to make even quicker work of Anakin than Obi-Wan did, and he would have killed him. However, if they fought before Anakin ever gave into the Dark Side, I honestly believe Anakin would have been able to floor Mace with the Force all so that he could shut him up and put him in his place.
In terms of intelligence, I'd say that you were ultimately right about Anakin being the winner. Mace certainly had more experience than Anakin, and Anakin definitely made his fair share of bad decisions, but Mace's strict adherence to the Jedi dogma hindered him to the point where he couldn't really do anything to stop Sidious. Again, Anakin's bad decisions led to the rise of the Empire, but it was Mace and the Jedi's bad decisions that led to Anakin's bad decisions. Anakin's impact on Ahsoka also lead to her doing a lot of good in the galaxy. In conclusion, Mace wins at lightsaber combat, Anakin wins in intelligence, and it's arguably a toss up in the Force ability category. But, that's just my opinion.
Sorry, Anakin, without plot armor, gets flattened by Mace in a duel, whether he turns to the dark side or not. We can wait until Mace gets old and Anakin learns a few more things to satisfy you, though.
Anakin isn't more intelligent than Mace. Just because the Jedi, at the time, were inappropriately married to the Republic doesn't all of sudden turn every jedi into village idiots. The philosophy remains the same; it gets messy because the Jedi started involving themselves in the politics.
Anakin's bad decisions come from the Jedi's bad decisions? What kind of take is that? It's not Anakin's fault for murdering children; it was the Council's fault because they didn't let a simp use the title of master to bang his love interest? That's ridiculous. The Council already stated he shouldn't be taught because he's too old and too conflicted with emotions. And, look at what eventually happened. Spot on by Mace.
*Edit: Also, their force powers are not equal: Anakin's Precognition doesn't counter Mace's Shatterpoint. If a Shatterpoint occurs and is acted upon, the timeline changes; Precognition only reveals only one string at a time, which is the current timeline. While Anakin's proficiency with Precognition was legendary, as with most of the Skywalker line, Shatterpoint is just more powerful of an ability.
Uh... you seem to forget that Mace literally tried to go against the Jedi code and kill Palpatine without a trial. I wouldn't call his adherence to Jedi dogma all that strict.
@@imnotmike Fair point. Although, I think it was stated by one of the writers that Mace fully intended to turn himself in once he killed Palpatine. It honestly seems like something he'd do, similar to how Dave Filoni stated that Rex would have turned himself in had he been the one to execute Krell instead of Dogma in The Clone Wars.
Sidious let Windu win. Windu was about the same or Dooku level . It's arguably Dooku was a tad more than Mace.
Anakin could take down Windu if pushed
Well of course you'd have to give it to Mace, perhaps on all three, but I'm not so sure that the power gap was as significant as people might think during the events of ROTS. However, even after Anakin turned to the dark side and his power level went up, you'd still have to give it to Mace because Anakin's inner darkness would have been used against him and he had not really mastered his new abilities yet. He was also conflicted. Anakin may have actually been a more tricky opponent for Mace before turning to the dark side but Mace would have the advantage of power and experience. Having said that, they would likely never have fought in this case. If Anakin had gone on to reach his full potential then he would have been able to best Mace regardless of whether he had or had not turned to the dark side. I think a dark side Anakin may have more trouble in a duel with Mace than a light side Anakin and would have been more likely to fight him but ultimately, his power would be too much for anyone he fought, including Mace. I am aware of what Windu's lightsaber form can do but even he would be overwhelmed by power and speed in this instance. Of course, Anakin never did reach his full potential whereas Mace did so obviously Mace wins due to the timeline. Anakin became a Jedi a lot later than Mace did so they were at totally different stages. It's almost unfair to compare really. I know that Anakin had to caught up to and even surpassed some Jedi masters but Mace was one of the most powerful Jedi ever. If there was a scenario where they are both at the same stage then that changes everything and you'd have to give it to Anakin. Nobody who is at the same stage of life as Anakin is beating him, that's why he's the chosen one. He is a manifestation of the force itself. The fact that people debate this just shows how quickly Anakin's power levels were growing and how far they could have gone. He's still very young in ROTS yet he's not that far away from rivalling the most powerful in the galaxy and there is no doubt that he would have surpassed them all.
Damn Windu, even if he DID survive, unlike Yoda he would've learned NOTHING!!!!!
The I never liked the mace windu character. The character had a holier than thou attitude which I rejected out of hand.
He destroyed the Jedi by saving Palpatine from mace windu he destroyed the sith by saving Luke from palpatine
Honestly, I feel like if there's any way Anakin could have beat Mace Windu legitimately then they would have just had them fight legitimately. Anakin obviously could only beat Mace by taking him by surprise. That's why they did it.
Mace Windu is the full embodiment of what a Jedi is supposed to be. Wtf kinda title is this video?
well they are way too close to the dark side. Intent of Jedi Training is to overcome their respective dark sides. Obi Wan did his best with Anakin and Obi Wan had several reason to fall to the dark side. Losing Qui Gon(a father figure to both Anakin and Obi Wan) to Darth Maul and troubled student, Losing Satine and losing Jedi Order and Republic are reasons for Obi Wan could go to the Dark side but didn't.
Anakin's decision making lead to the death of millions of people so that means it was inferior to Windu's who would have saved the Republic and countless lives.
2 billion died on alderaan
Bro you really think palpatine wouldn't have planned for the possibility of his death? Trust me Mace wasn't saving anything.
I would love a what if? Starwars series.
100% agree
Considering the way duku balances himself much more than just about any other Sith in his era, I think duku is the only Sis that would stand chance against mece.
And considering during the battle of Genesis dukeu wasn't even willing to face him one V-1, He had quite a lot of droids help...
Mace destroys the shadows.
But unfortunately wasn't balanced in the light, That's why he was so dogmatic.
Would anakin actually use the dark side against mace. He knows mace has vaapad and shatterpoint
Maybe not at first but Mace would have pressed him to the point where he would have to use it or lose, that's if Mace didn't outright goad Anakin until he snapped.
@@TrashPanda90914 fr, if I’m not mistaken he almost used the darkside and was daring Mace to use it “Vapaad this you…”
I don't think using the dark side is as much of a conscious tactical decision as that. Once you fall to the dark side, it's not so easy to just decide not to use the dark side because it would be convenient to face a foe using the light side force. If it was that easy, then using the dark side when it was convenient wouldn't be so bad.
Darth Sidious vs Darth Nihilus plz
Nah my moneys on Anakin. Not young Anakin but give it another 5 years from revenge of the sith if the events changed Anakin all day as he would keep getting stronger and stronger
But he didn't keep getting stronger and stronger, did he? He got punked down by a rusty and out of practice obi-wan kenobi, who on his best day was never nearly as strong as Mace Windu.
I'd go with Anakin, because of his chosen one status and how he was brought in the most untimely moments that later brought in the clone wars, and because of these events made Mace Windu formed a jealously and paranoia to the aspiring boy that was doing great at his young age. It almost sounds that Mace Windu let his ego took over on how he was once a knowable jedi when he was young and though "HEY IM TOP JEDI & W/ COOL LIGHTSABER COLOR, MAYBE IM THE CHOOSEN ONE GUYS?" idk maybe?
"The Jedi Temple Training Ground was a Courtyard in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant used for Jedi Training, including the teaching of Younglings. It was the location of an ancient tree that was imbued with the powers of the Force. The tree was removed from the complex after the rise of the Galactic Empire, when the Emperor, Darth Sidious, converted the Jedi Temple into the Imperial Palace.
The training ground was a courtyard in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. It was located near the base of the temple's central spire and was used for the training of Jedi, including younglings. At its heart was an ancient tree that was imbued with the powers of the Force.
During the Clone Wars, the training ground was used for the training of younglings. Jedi Master Tera Sinube taught a class of younglings there when a lightsaber duel broke out between Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker and the rogue Padawan Barriss Offee, whom Skywalker was attempting to take into custody after learning that she had bombed the Jedi Temple due to her belief that the Jedi High Council had become corrupt due to their leadership over the Grand Army of the Republic in the war. Skywalker disarmed the Padawan and used the Force to telekinetically slam her into the ancient tree, at which point she was taken into custody.
Some time later, Skywalker spoke to Grand Master Yoda in the courtyard regarding the latter's belief that he was communing with the deceased Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn. Skywalker, who briefly heard Jinn's disembodied voice through the Force, expressed skepticism, but Yoda was convinced and began a journey to learn the secrets to retaining his consciousness after death. As part of this quest, he saw a vision of a peaceful Jedi Order, one untouched by war. This vision placed him in the Jedi Temple training ground, where he saw many Jedi, including those who had been killed and had fallen to the dark side of the Force, happily speaking to one another. Upon his return to the Jedi Temple, Yoda spoke with fellow Jedi Council members Mace Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi about his experiences, telling them that he was uncertain if it was possible for the Jedi Order to win the Clone Wars.
The end of the Clone Wars saw the destruction of the Jedi Order at the hands of the Sith. After declaring himself Emperor and transforming the Galactic Republic into the Galactic Empire, the Sith Lord Darth Sidious transformed the Jedi Temple into the Imperial Palace. He removed the ancient tree from the courtyard and, over two decades later, its two remaining fragments were located in an Imperial research lab on Vetine. They were retrieved by Luke Skywalker, the last known Jedi Knight and the son of Anakin Skywalker, and Lieutenant Shara Bey of the Alliance to Restore the Republic. Skywalker kept one of the fragments for himself and gifted the other to Bey, who planted it outside of her home on Yavin 4."
Vape pad? Im pretty sure its pronounced "vah pod". The aa usually makes that sound. It could be vape pod? Which would be funny considering vape pods are a thing.
Anakin would beat Windu in a duel, because Anakin was not fully in the Dark Side on episode 3 until after Order 66.
It doesn't matter. If Anakin even remotely tapped into the dark side like with dooku he would lose and he's a very emotional person.
I didnt know this would be a vs.
I don't know if he can ultimately be able to turn the dark side against someone who is much stronger in the force than him? He would have to channel much stronger power than he is used to and redirect it after all were talking about the jedi who, by pulling planets, literally turned day into night into day. It's kind of easy to say well it's mace, and he's cool, so he will win, and yeah, a lot of stuff he does is. But we are also talking about an unsuited Vader. Every second passing is Vader getting stronger and stronger and stronger. We already know that when pushed, he can throw force abilities on par with Yoda or even higher now take the moral limiter off and the restraints of the suit. I don't think in any universe would mace windu even present a challenge to an unsuited Vader. I'm sorry, but vaped is not going to be used effectively against someone who can force planets into a faster orbit, and that's without any of the power the dark side gives. Obi won was really the best fighter at that temple, and he had to spend the whole fight baiting anakin and ultimately won because of how well he knew anakin. Windu, on the other hand, seemed to hate or strongly dislike him. He doesn't have that kind of knowledge of anakin or now Vader, nor does he have the offensive skills of Yoda or the defensive skills of obi-won. He relies solely on using his enemies' power against them. But how do you do that when the power is above anything you've ever seen or controlled before? Even a real-world martial artist can't do this to an opponent who has too much power to move, and that's just physical strength.
Having a free mind is what makes you human if someone takes that from you then you're no longer human
I think Oobie Roob Anubi was the worst betrayer. He literally sold out Darth Soldier when he was doing his best to betray Darth Plagus
Anakin is exactly the kind of Sith that would be completely unable to handle Vapaad. His reckless angry style is exactly what the style was made to counter, he would be destroyed *because* he is very strong. Mace would simply utilize the Chosen Ones own power against him. If it happened in the office scene where Anakin was massively emotionally unstable? Mace would have destroyed him
Mace would dominate Anakin, the deeper the darkside in him, the more he give Mace the ability to win.
I wish mace was so battle harden that after his hand was cut off his instincts kicked in and he retreated out the window before palp could shock him.
That Skywalker exclusive power: Force Plot Armor......
So if the sith had been in hiding for a thousand years, and believed to be extinct by the Jedi, then how would Mace Windu even be able to develop and practice vapaad?
Vappad and mace has mastered other forms as well. When it comes to force Anakin has the higher potential that's obvious but when it comes to force abilities and control of their power I'd favor mace. Intelligent and battlefield IQ it's mace because he was considered the warrior of the Jedi order.
Altho Windu is my favorite among the 2 I can't help but agree Anakin would win in a duel. Windu doesn't achieve Vaapad instantly which gives Anakin a significant window, not only to win the duel but to do so quickly, That being said once he achieves Vaapad I would then flip my choice and say Windu would be the victor
If Anakin had remained with the Light Side of the Force, he would have been more powerful than Mace Windu. As for what weve seen in canon, Anankin could never have beaten Mace.
OK good anakin just what like I imagine
Where Anakin failed as a Jedi he made up for as one the MOST powerful an deadly Sith successes ever. What we need to determine NOW is DID Windu survive, does he STILL live in this Post current trilogy and if so... WTF Mace??? Where's he been this whole time since he plummeted out the window an what's he been up to all these decades... He must have had a crisis an guilt trip hell of a lot worse then what we showed Grandmaster Luke having in his trilogy... Not to mention how VERY old he must be for a Jedi seeing as he's Human so he'd be roughly original Palpatine's age or Dooku's Age by this point in the series. Since realized his form isn't TRULY perfected Mace is a flawed teacher too... Since he's NOT figured out how to properly reach and instruct probably more then few students, Anakin being MOST prominent, an it's ALL up to chance if he resolved to teach someone Vaapadd that they'd BOTH learn AND master it WITHOUT turning to the Darkside.. that ALONE was a HUGE failure on Mace's part. He coulda PERFECTED that an ALSO found ways to not only keep students from Darkside falling BUT adjust it to help make "problem" Jedi, least from HIS an his Order's perspective, like Anakin Master themselves an become better Jedi... Which being a fighter coulda been the PERFECT counter to ANY Sith or Sith type that's ever been... By then heavily drilling them for Frontline elite style Commando Jedis specialized in Anti Sith fighting, it'd be like the Shadows on Steroids.. the Shadows of the Shadows sorta speak...
Anakin all the way, see when angry Anakin is more focused and pre siding with sidious Anakin was only somewhat of a dark Jedi which is not the same as a sith while not different in alliance with the dark side totally different in ideology. Meaning Anakin used his darkness to help people like mace did only Anakin didn't choose the sith until the Jedi betrayed him. So just after saving palpatine that Anakin using anger wouldn't necessarily be the dark side. That Anakin would destroy mace now I would like to see them fight even if it's Vader vs mace.
nah man. what anakin taps into is still concidered part of the dark side. also considering the fued they have in some ways anakin would definently try to use his rage against windu spelling his own defeat.
I wonder what would have happened if Anakin was trained by Mace instead of Ben Kenobi?...
Mace was to heavy handed. I think he would've rebelled. Q.G.J would've had more patience.
If Anakin fought mace like he fought Dooku on tattoine then Anakin would win on tattoine Anakin matched dooku pretty well you can argue Dooku was just stalling but non the less it’s still impressive considering a few wheels before he was embarrassed by Dooku. So a unconflicted and light side focused Anakin would defeat mace.
All mace had to do would say “help me kill palpatine and you get to be a Jedi master”
Or if Mace offered to help him destroy sand 🤣 the true villain of star wars
Are both of you forgetting Anakins true reason for downfall. The death of his mother and Ashoka leaving the order, then padme's foretold death.
Only way Mace may of convinced him, is the same as how Palps did. "WE can save Padme, together." If he used that wording exact, instead of Palps; "I can save Padme". He may of listened.
But I doubt it due to the conflict with Ashoka and the Jedi, Ignored his visions about his mother.
So it depends, did he wanna join the savior that trusted him or the savior that didn't trust or listen to him.
Skywalker's power maybe equal to but not stronger in or before revenge of the sith. After he becomes Vader or after he returns to the light Skywalker's power will win
Sad. Windu could’ve been the one to save anakin outside of qui gon. Mace had achieved balance and could’ve taught him
I wanna see darth revan and darth sidious paired up
The title is just a bit misleading
mace windu started with nothing and got to sucha point that he could almost rival Yoda in duel.. Anakin had it all , the midichlorians the force , he was the chosen one and yet i would argue that he was not much stronger than windu by the time he was darth vader. it would be interesting to se a windu from revenge of the sith or clone wars vs Vader
If Anakin could beat Mace, he would have fought him face to face. He knew he couldn't, so he attacked Mace from Behind.
Well the side but yeah I think you're right. Vapaad is unbeatable by any dark side user imo.
@@TrashPanda90914 except for Count Dooku. Lol
@@YoungHarlem110352 he dueled with dooku before he fell to the dark side though and it was more like sparring since they weren't trying to kill each other.
@@TrashPanda90914 was speaking of in general, that also counts considering Dooku would only still be second to Yoda and had only declined during the events of ROTS. That and even as a Darksider, Dooku still dueled with only pragmatism in mind and "peerless clarity." according to Yoda.
The way I interpreted it, Mace was being played. Sidious played like he was on his last leg and was about to die just to get Anakin to do something he wouldn't be able to take back.
Think about it. As soon as Anakin cut Mace's limp wrist off, Sid blasted Mace with an even more powerful bolt ⚡ than he'd put out before. And what did Sid say as he fried Mace?
"Unlimited Power!"
I will give this one to Mace Windu only if Anakin uses his Darkside against Windu at all
I think Windu never had Sidious. I think Sidious needed Anakin to cross that line. Windu was just a puppet that was playing it's part in the dark lord's plan.
this has been debunked many many many times. Mace beat Sidious end of story.
you forgot obi one almost killed anakin and mace is a lot bitter fighter then and faster then obi one in the book mace and darth btt chain was so fast is was like burr of lights anakin is not that fast i say mace wins
The arguments used for each are flawed because they only cover selective portions of what makes each one up as a whole. I see it as a draw.
I don't believe the lightsaber round should go to mace simply because Obi-Wan Kenobi was the epitome of form 3 which is a very defensive form he was THE master of it and during their duel on mustafar Anakin broke his defenses many times
I don't think that was ever a major point if one at all. the biggest reason mace wins is because of his lightsaber form and how that would match up to Anakin. Also Mace is THE master of Juyo and by extention Vaapad.
...Palpatine manipulated Anakin to do to Dooku what Sidious manipulated Anakin to do to Windu...?
I would like to see Yoda and Luke as the next mashup. Because I want to know who would win
Depends on which version of Luke. OT era Luke gets thrashed by any version of Yoda but legends Luke is literally the most powerful force user of all time and can do some mind boggling stuff like fight actual force gods like it's nothing. He makes palpatine look like a joke.
The original trilogy Luke Skywalker
@@djnavarro3212 Okay so rotj Luke is in my opinion roughly on par with rots Anakin maybe even above him. Vader directly compares Luke to all the Jedi he has faced or met and firmly places him above pretty much every one of them so Luke is incredibly powerful at that point however Yoda stalemated Palpatine who absolutely toyed with Luke and Vader showed that there was still a significant gap in skill between Luke and him. So basically in the OT era I would put Palpatine>Yoda>Vader>Luke.
@@djnavarro3212 sorry that was a bit long winded 😂
No it’s okay. It’s better if you put it in a long explanation rather than a short one
In all truth on the physical mental and spiritual levels Jedi Master Mace Windu takes the victory 3-0 over Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker. I also have to take this one step further but before I do mace Windu was stronger than Yoda prior to The Phantom Menace. Yoda and Windu were on a completely different realm, although not on the same level.
Mace Windu was basically OP. His only weakness was for the republic he had control of his physical mental and spiritual state of mind body and force being. Anakin Skywalker failed in nearly every regard except for the physical. As far as force powers and abilities, mace Windu takes that victory over the chosen one as well. Why? It is because he’s on a much higher level and what many fans easily overlook, is that master mace Windu continued to increase his power level nonstop. Jedi master mace Windu created a Force Technique and Lightsaber variant fighting form that was specifically tailored to destroy Sith lords. This was during times of peace. What’s more even in the light side of the force he was already stronger than master Yoda. Anakin skywalker‘s mental and spiritual aspects were severely lacking. Anakin‘s in a force potential was unrivaled and unmatched to anyone having fully realized it., But that’s only if he mastered his mental and spiritual aspect. As far as current levels go, he was well below Master Windu.
No matter where I cut it I do not see master mace Windu ever declining in power or speed or stamina or strength or endurance or agility or flexibility or force potential or force power. He only increases and for whatever reason because he’s also an alien being the perfect alien hybrid species with it connection to the force would extend his life force beyond what his species would consider normal. So he gets the best of us world because he can operate in the light side of the force a powerhouse in that regard. He can use the Darkside to bolster his strength even further and he only gets stronger overtime with no decline or deficit of dark side degradation. It appears as though Jedi master mace Windu is a chosen one as well, of sorts.
I see it is this Anakin Skywalker was the prophesied chosen one. But Mace Windu was also a chosen one too. What do I mean by that? If Anakin Skywalker reached his entire force potential and in doing so, surpassed master Windu. Mace would eventually surpass skywalker, it would be like Goku and Vegeta constantly surpassing each other although with mace Windu skill set and a force potential and constant increase of power over time especially in a short time. They are like Saiyans. However was Mase Winde‘s gifted potential applied application current power level higher than master Yoda combat wise and force potential. Mace when does résumé literally outsize Anakin Skywalker the chosen one. People act like mace Windu is not gonna get any stronger he got stronger over the course of three movies and in the first movie he was already stronger than Master Yoda the grandmaster of the entire Jedi order.
The title is misleading. This wasn't about why they failed as jedi, but a contest of who would win against the other. Please be more specific in your titles about what the video is about.
Not failure only successful achievement...
You sided with the "chosen one"....big shock
If mace can defeat sideous in a couple of mins how can anyone think anakin has a chance at this point? People keep banging on about anakin's "potential" without actually realising what potential actually is ffs!
Idk man. I feel like palpatine didn't lose that fight. I mean he messed up everyone in the room and was fighting mace right up until anikan shows up even losing his saber out the window. To anikan it looks like mace is just beating a old man that was trying to defend himself. Leaving anikan to make the fall to the darkness on his own. Seemed like a gamble more than a L
please this has been debunked sooo many times by so many people. It is not that hard to believe Sidious is one of the greatest darkside users. Mace windu was able to devlope a style that specifically was meant to combat the darkside and he was a master at it. It is pretty cut and dry.
@@masonguthrie1257 I mean he also got beat by someone who wasn't even a actual master in one hit.
@@sunshineinabag9956 that was more because he was focused on Sidious and for the first time he trusted anakin which was his mistake.
Well they were both prone to acting before thinking about the consequences…
Starting to think vapaad makes mace too op, every vs battle with a darkside user makes it a automatic win for him.maybe he would've faced a foe that would've been too much for vapaad to handle?
I think you can't use vapaad infinitely, at some point you will fall to the dark side when you try to conduct too much darkside energy.
May I offer my opinion? Vaapad makes Mace seems OP because Mace is already the most skillful bar Yoda even without Vaapad. Vaapad is just a bonus.
For exemple, if you have Kit Fisto learn Vaapad. No offence to him, he is a skill duelist, but he would still lose to Sidious even with Vaapad mastered because he doesn't have the natural skill to defeat the dark lord.
By contrast Mace is just so skillful that with Vaapad, he became the ultimate Sith Killer
I read in the novel that Palpatine's force lightning was too much even for Vaapad. It was so intense that it bended Windu's lightsaber.
Not every Darksider. Pretty much the only other who wouldn't be affected would be Count Dooku, who didn't duel with malice or evil intent, but with pure pragmatism and "peerless clarity."
He actively kept some Jedi principles active in his life and only used the Dark Side in quick feints.
This vid is silly compared to the Novel & Lucas himself Windu was the more powerful & stable of the two. Lucas also confirms that Sidious did not allow him to win. Windu bested Sidious in light saber dueling resulting to him using force lighting until he was blindsided by Anakin. Everything is not necessarily black & white sometimes it's the battle of techniques and status. According to the novel Obi-Wan is greater than Darth Vader, not necessarily stronger but can out maneuver/think /duel Vader. Windu could defeat both Anakin/Vader there's a difference. All these Vader fans like to come up with excuses for the character.
Mace didn’t failed he just was jumped lol anakin snuck windu I’m hurt only for him to feel a jolt of unlimited powahhhhh flow threw his veins lol.
Windu would kick my ass in the game
I'd argue the title should be " How the Jedi Order Failed Anakin and Mace"
Mace would destroy him. Full potential Anakin would be a different story, although it would still be close.
Mace by a slightest of saber cuts
I think Anakin not having a father figure is a cop out. Im sure many Jedi Masters would have saw this and would have stepped up...
Am I wrong?
Yes you are wrong to my knowledge 2 Jedi tried obi wan and qui gon, every one else just let him be. Others tried to only be teachers or hated him flat out.
Mace didn’t fail no as a Jedi he thrived.
I completely disagree with you on Anakins intelligence. He was bot that intelligent he was just very lucky.
windu was murdered. thats not failing