Build an electronic rod balancer for $15!
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- čas přidán 22. 01. 2023
- In this, episode 74, DV explains the importance of rod lightening and balance. All is explained as a home production excercise with a home made $15 rod balancer.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
40 years ago I rebuilt a inline 6 cylinder diesel, it had been apart before. It vibrated so bad that parts would lossen and fall off .It was a stationary irrigation well motor and ran around 2000 rpm 24/7 for weeks at a time. Upon disassembly one could see the out of balance problem, as one wrist pin was different, the hole was much smaller. 90 grams heaver than the other 5 pins. some where one piston pin assy. had been replaced with a setup meant for a turbo-ed motor. We used a triple beam balance scale to get all the parts, rods,piston pins and pistons as close as we could. Didn't do anything as far as the rotational assy. Put it all back together and one could stand a nickle on the valve cover with it idling and the coin would walk around in a circle. Probably just farmer luck, cant't argue with success as they say! that motor ran many years after that! Finally that engine was replaced with a electric motor.
That's an excellent support reference alone. I have the inclination to do the same to my engine I want to balance and lighten, but don't want to spend big money (that I don't have) on a time consuming job. I'm retired and have heaps of time on my hands and the patience to get it right. With Dave's examples I'll do the rods and then get them Shot Peened. The stock engine already does 7Krpm. If I get another reliable 1000RPM out of it, after reducing the rods, crank and flywheel weight, and then balancing it all, I'll be stoked.
A self leveling, cross line laser will be very handy in this setup.
Thank you for technically explaining all of these terms and techniques I used to hear at the drag strip as a kid from the racers talking about what all was done to their engines. Now 40 years later, I am understanding more.
Mr. Vizard. I got my popcord ready, warm and waiting Sir. lol
Years ago, on my 350SBC, I just statically balanced the rods, and that seemed to run in the motor well. It idealed even smother. I learned how to balance the rods on eather end but not to this extreme like on a beam. Well done since my background is metrology, and I worked at a major helicopter company in CT.
People don't realize how important the details are, and you show how to do simple things, and it's done right.
Thanks David I like it when u show us stuff like this we can do it at home it makes the build that much better
I along with others appreciate you sharing your experience and knowledge. Thank you David
Thank you Mr. Vizard for all the great videos! I already know this is gonna be a good one👍. Can’t wait.
I can tell you people love what you do and that makes me happy
Always a pleasure to listen to your knowledge, all the best to yous and your loved ones
Thank You David, I have spent many hours watching your video's and I have several of your High Performance books. Thank you for keeping it simple.
Thanks David Vizard for sharing your ideas and explanations. It is learning. DK. ASE Master Tech retired.
Hi Mr. Vizard. I love this low-buck setup. It strikes me that 2 modifications (with your thoughs) might make a difference. 1. Having a beam across the top of the stand where the upside down "?" hook ( attaches that allowed for a plumb bob to be installed in-line with the "?" hook string would make it easier to ensure the "?" hook string was perfectly straight. In fact one could do an T at top with 2 plumb bobs. 2. as a modification to the scale surface dedicating it to this purpose, a short small nail could be glued with it's head to the balance plate. This would ensure the pressure was always dead center in the same spot on the plate - though positioning at the same spot on the rod would have to be by eye. Even 2 parallel nails to simulate a knife edge might work?
Use a plumb bob and mark the base exactly below the hanging post. Then use a simple wire hook through the big end and make sure the other side is exactly above the mark you made on the base the base. If the hook is on the big end joint line and the string has the same top hanging point it will be vertical. We are not interested in the actual small end weight measurement, but we do need good repeatability from rod to rod. Most piezo scales should be more than good enough.
Awesome as always! I'm going to build one of these rigs tomorrow.
Love the ingenuity!
I just subscribed. Just a fantastic video!! Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge!!
Loving your content David
Im starting work on a motorbike engine using your techniques
Thanks for sharing all of your experience.
I've actually buyed a digital balancer , they are very cheap considering what options you now have (checking valve weight, piston weight, etc) great deal!
Mr.Vizard ... thank you for all of your books and the Power Tech Tutorial videos . The Chevy 302 engine con rods were factory fitted steel on steel . Longevity was said to be about 50,000 miles before brinelling . Maybe you said this in one of your small block Chevy building books !!!
Modern oils allow the pin and rod to last almost indefinitly.
That is genius! I have built many racing motorcycle engines and 2 stroke engines, you are dead on! ! Subbed 😎👍
Very educational, great job !
Those stands are easy to make or you can find them on Amazon , eBay , etc ..
You can also find burettes which are handy for cc'ing cylinder heads .
Thanks for letting me know about this !
Good info as always! Thank you!
String is a good idea. I tried to build a setup a few years ago with round stock and bearings. I wasn't able to get it to work consistently. I think the string would help with that.
I like the metal jig for getting equal weights.
With less droop in the rods on the balancer jig you will get even more precision. Less droop means that you have less stability so you will need more patience so it's up to the user how much time they want to spend. Having a block to put under one rod end when fixing them to the shaft will allow quick setup with less droop.
Instead of using a background line to check the height difference you could make go/no go gauges out of a couple of bolts with the heads and thread ends ground or carefully filed flat and putting everything on a glass plate.
Be interested to hear about flywheel balancing too. There's an English guy on CZcams who does mini flywheel balancing with a similar setup to that comp cams deal you showed
Now I know why the English use the word brilliant, because this is an ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT VIDEO !!!
Don't mark on your wall.
Put and indicator ring on the stand
Half way down the shaft put a second rod out with a ring on the end in the horizontal position.
Pass the wire or cotton as he calls it down through the center.
A black string with show easily all planes of center as it passes through the ring on its way to the support hook.
Thanks David!
Thanks David
Thank you Mr Vizard
So easy but still, you need to be so precise.
Thanks for that important content.
Matched and balanced a lot of rods and pistons with this setup, but, I spent extra on a very good scale.
Loved the method, KISS, Keep It Stupidly Simple!!!
Soon as the snow melts off and I can get to the shop I will try out this trick method. I will also make a copy of the Comp fixture. Did they patent it?!!!
Got some of your books, going to complete the lot.
Thank you, sir.
That balancing device works similar to propeller balancer. For RC plane propellers, since they are very light, the part holding the propeller is held in place by magnetic field, so it had no friction.
Brilliant!
Looks like the one I made in high school auto shop back in 63. I used a chemistry lab balance.😂😂
I'm hoping you are watching Charlie's channel on the 318. He is putting an incredible amount of time on the heads, dual plane and single plane 2bbl intakes with all the numbers you could ask for.
Charlie, is going full bore. He is in to it. I hope it brings him a lot. He deserves it. He is a truthful teacher as well. Great guy.
Hope you don't mind me asking 🙂. Charlie who?
@@josephc3276 Charles Servedio
@@dondotterer24 Thank you Don! I'll certainly look him up.
Thanks, will do. And add vert and horiz lasers (cheap also). I think it should be fool proof.
It's a connecting rod's scale, all the best to yous and your loved ones
Good day David Vizard - love the channel and the series - do you have any old videos of your cars / engines in races you could put up on your channel I know I would love to see them and maybe get some backstories.
I would put a rubber stick on foot in the center of the scales so it makes it much easier as the rod won't slip about
You are a stud sir. I am glad I found you. Does your shop do head porting? If so, I will send you a set of Kasse/Jegs heads with slight canted valves for my sb for 347 I'm building for my 67 Fastback Mustang. Then I can finally purchase a cam with the head flow in mind. Billet Scat crank, H-beam Scat rods, Diamond Pistons, but are wrong, I believe. They put in Boss 302 valve placements, may need to fly cut them to fit these heads. I even gave Scat my combustion chamber layout that came with the heads....oh well.
i have never weighed the small end of a rod to balance it. you're gonna wear yourself out weighing it, then removing it to grind on it, then mount it back up for a measurement. the method we used was much easier. weigh and balance out the rotating weight of all eight big ends. then weigh the complete rod, and grind the small end untill all eight rods match in total weight. subtract the big end weight from the total weight and you have the recipricating weight of the small end.
It is a holder for the big and small end holder for balancer
Right on
Vizard is the engine building Wizard
If your rebuilding a engine on the cheap
And it's "factory balanced" mid 9s 360 Mopar
Balancing the pistons, pins and rods to match the lightest one
Will NOT negativity throw off the factory balance will it?
it will only tighten the tolerances
Of the loose factory balance. Right?
I'm pretty sure but just want to be 100% ish.
Thanks and awesome videos
Please answer David.
What if you used 2 scales and set the rod on the 2 scales big end on one small on the other and make sure all rods are the same? PS learning a lot. Regards Rik
On the diesels I work on you can almost balance assemblies on a bathroom scale. I have seen engines with 3lbs difference in the rotating assemblies parts from the factory but I guess on one that weighs 300-400lbs its only 1%
I’m going to make one of these with my Ohaus 310-00 Dial-O-Gram Hanging overhead mechanical Balance, 310g x 0.01g and Ohaus 750-S0 Triple-Beam Balance with Tare and Stainless Steel Pan, 610g x 0.1g
Nice
😊👍 Thanks
so in first place you have to have a very flat level of surface to work on with that tool from compcams? And then , different Big ends and piston pin dia
bolting. How does that work? And if so, you would be able to make that sort of balancing tool yourself if you have a small lathe and drilling mashine
like i have second hand bought. Just asking, thank's
I know this is not a new video but I hope you see this. I am working on a similar build with a 360 magnum for my pickup. With the 360 being externally balanced, what differences will there be in the overall balancing? I wouldn't mind having an enternally balanced engine when I am finished, if it is feasible considering cost/effort/skill.
Rod balance fixture !
Would this method work with the pistons still attached? I don't have access to a press to remove my pistons from the rods, but still want to try and see if my parts are still close in balance? Working on a 460 Ford if it makes any difference. Thank you Mr. Vizard in advance.
I always thought large journals/rotation end were far more important than the wrist pin ends. Then just took any difference of complete weight off of wrist pin ends. Never had a problem but then again I'm not running a race car. Funny how different things you do in life change your outlook on things. When I was young I worked in the meat business and after seeing weighing single items like patties and then making Stacks of 8 and weighing each stack and getting different weights I feel total weight is most important. That being said I use same 2 wedges to prop up connecting rods on the pistons and weigh total assembly. I feel true-ing cylinders and ring gap also determines the resistance of each cylinder and can make any of the piston assemblies look different. Where does it ever end 🤷♂️
I'm wondering if you could use just the thread attached to the large end of the rod. I'm trying to think of a reason why it wouldn't. Maybe I'll try it.
Great video! I just turned a set of 6 powder metal rods into bananas! In my 3800 I got a little bit over enthusiastic with the boost controller lol!
I guess that's better than putting a window in the block....
Hey Mr. BOOST - could you send me your worst rod and give me details of what it took before failing?
I lightened and balanced up a set of Chey 2.2L rods years ago. They were also powdered metal. It was like grinding butter.
Back in the day before the invasion of cheap Chinese tech , I used 2 tension springs to balance rods end for end . The springs attached to a board by 2 screws and each rod end suspended on each spring . The position of the rod was marked against the board and the lightest one found by marking the board . The others were then had material removed to match the marks on the board . Simple and repeatable results .
How does Oil Extreme affect (is it safe to use with):
Auto Trans Clutches?
Catalytic converters?
Various Exhaust sensor types?
Diesel Particulate filters?
Thankyou.
David this isn't on comp cams web site yet, but hopefully soon.
Thanks Glen
Ps what's the best way to contact you?
Using first method.
on that Comp Cams balancer, I guess you could put one of the rods on and just keep it on for the rest of them, and then they would all weigh the same as that one?
I would flatten the clay pieces before applying them so they did not roll off.
heads up, link to cam video at the end is malfunctioning.
Awesome video
Could you set the stand and hanging rod on a separate scale and 0 it out
Then put the con rod on and measure both ends at the same time
Or would that just make more room for errors 🤔or less
if you take the time to do the dual measurement correctly then it's only
1 chance with the possibility of 2 errors
Or individually and 1 chance for 1 possible error but you have to do it twice
🤔🧐🤪🤪🤪 Or do it both ways and hopefully you'll see one of them isn't right and start all over scratching your head thinking about which one is wrong
Id just go with your way as correct and ditch mine fyi measure twice cut once
Or try the old dang it 😡
I cut it twice and it's still too short
Method
That's a great idea! Balance the small ends, then you don't need to use that system just the scales. It will save a lot of time. Thanks for the tip.
The ford model t manufacturing they had a machine they called the dynamic rod balenceing not sure how it worked .
In for the crank balancer for $30.
Where do you remove weight from? What part of the rods? I understand on some old factory rods, they have the massive chunks of metal on the small and big ends you can grind down, but what about these aftermarket rods?
They are made with more accurate forgings and selected as a group of 8. The fully machined rods are very close right after manufacture and are selected as a set of matching rods.
So are you saying buy honing the pin end of the rod about 1 thousand bigger and not having it with bushings I can run floating rod pins ? And use the oil you talked about. I did not know that thank you.
That's right!
Small journal . The green rod . Last three of part number, 145 . Just about unbreakable on a 3 inch stroke . Probably can't get them from Chevy anymore .
Guys, I can help you pull the old videos so the progress bar isn't shown and the quality will be significantly better.
So what if they are out of balance, do you just remove s small amount of metal? Does the total weight of each rod matter compared to the other rods or will that be correct once both ends are balanced?
The complete rods weight all have to be the same
I read somewhere that the factory has around a SIXTY gram balancing tolerance. Can an engine be balanced that far off and not shake noticeably?
,,,,,,Engine balancing factors are quoted in percentage.....Balancing factors ; of below 50 % , above 50 % for automotive engines ,and even 60 % for old Harley engines.......Only the parts to be balanced are measured in Grams..........
Old and trusted method of balancing……take two identical elastic bands hang from two hooks on peg board attach con rod and mark lowest point of small end and big end , do same for all rods, and just make them all the same as the lightest…simples 👍🚀
a cheap laser level would help
It there any reason for the cross pin to stay in the fixture after the nut is tightened?
It balances the fixture You balance the fixture before the rods go on.
you mark the pin
so after the rods are on you can put the pin back to the balanced point
@@MrJak427 That is how it's being done in the video. It seems simpler to balance the fixture without the pin so that it doesn't have to be reinserted precisely every time.
been using the dual rod system for over 40 years, its accurate you just have to use common sense
Make it run like a sewing machine.
I didn't dislike, but where did the calculation go ?
Rod balancers are 200 or so u less u build 1 no need for 4 figures here just a quality scale I go down to .001 in weight when balancing pistons or rods some only go to a tenth most are within a gram but accuracy is key in building a engine
Mucho misterio para equilibrar aburre
Only 1 improvement post number of the video you are like at 0% on correctness lol
Can you restate that, in English most people can understand, please?
Auto correct not very correct
Meant to say every or most every time the number of the video he is usually wrong, on the intro he is a very smart man if I was intro Chevrolet instead of Mopar, Buick and Pontiac I would have gotten his awesome knowledge a lot sooner
If you're referring to the PowerTec 10 video number, David's compatriot Marvin died last year and due to some foolishness on CZcams's part David had to start over so the restarted videos are not in the same order as their original date.
I’m not a regular viewer, I’ve not even built an engine from scratch yet but I do love the theory/work/experiments that go into making a stock engine perform to its best. There are very few other channels that are worth watching for this information.
Speaking of BS,
Nah mate, your method is NOT accurate enough Pal. They will come out all over the place in weight if I were to check them. Another one with no idea. The compcams rod balancer is however accurate when used correctly.
I made the protoptype for the CC balancer.
Good content...poor production. Put as much effort into your production as you do with your thumbnail and title and your channel will grow. It's obvious you have a lot of knowledge to share. Loose all the text in the intro. Start the intro with topic video, not a brand promotion... then splash the brand, but be brief (10-15 sec.). The cuts building up between the two methods of balancing was an interesting idea but I think it was poorly executed. I think most viewers would grade the flow of the video poorly. Obviously, if it's just my opinion, it doesn't matter. It really all depends on your motives for making the video.
You have definitely figured out the thumbnail formula, but here's a tip for your titles. Keep your titles 50 characters or less otherwise they will be cut off and all your efforts to create an enticing title will be for not, because there will be missing words next to the thumbnail.
Thanks for the information on balancing rods. I found it useful.
Don - You have some good points here - I'm not anywhere near as good at this video deal as I would like to be. Please help keep me on my toes!
@@DavidVizard You're doing a great job! Most gearheads aren't interested in over the top graphics that take hours to perfect, but are interested in your amazing content not offered by (almost) any other channel.
How is Mission Impossible doing?
hey david you’re a hard man to contact! called the number on your wensite out of service!
sent you an email no reply!
whats the best way to contact you??
Thanks David!