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What's a race prep on a stock rod worth? Way more than you might think!
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2023
- In this, episode 70 of PowerTec 10, DV moves to part 5 of the 'mission impossible' 318 Mopar project that he and Andy Wood are doing with 'Uncle Tony'.
In this episode DV is still on his quest to reduce mass where ever possible. Most will be amazed at the amount of steel he has been able to pull out of the stock 318 Mopar rods to turn this mundane piece into a pretty respectable race rod capable of as high as 8000 rpm. Also, and still on the reduced mass path, he looks into some little known pusrod moves that can cut over 30% out of the pusrod mass.
Awesome presentation, looking forward to future lessons.
Awesome David , bit by bit You are making The 318 Mission Impossible Project seem very Possible !
I believe your precise, accurate, conscientious, carefully thought out and hard work will be rewarded 😉👍
Love what You Do and How You Do It ! . . .so now I can do it too ! 👍😁♥️
it's always a pleasure to hear history`s and explanations from our Professor Vizard, Best regards from Brazil!
Glad to see this channel growing!!
Me too!
Dont forget to give charlie more credit, been watching his videos on the heads and intake and hes been working around the clock for the build.
That ain't no lie. Kinda feels like he's getting the short end of the stick on this deal. They ought to be giving him shutouts right and left and sending folks to his channel.
Yeah I just started watching his channel and I swear he's put more time on just the flow bench, not to mention the actual porting, than everyone else combined. He's crushing it!!!
🔔😎Each man is spending hours and hours on this. NOBODY is sandbagging.
The rest of the team is getting these videos processed, which takes time too.
@@jseal21
Really? No kidding?
Who else is porting heads and manifolds?
Grinding rods doesn't require a flow bench. SMH
@@jseal21 favors are supposed to be done and when a real favor is done recognition and reward is not necessary. If you do a favor and expect to be rewarded for it then you aren't doing any favors at all and you are probably doing it for the wrong reasons
The artist at work 😊.
On the monthly plan with St Judes. Never miss the money. Very worthy cause!
We used to do a lot of this.
The advent of the affordable decent aftermarket connecting rods put an end to it for the most part.
It's only a worthwhile option if there's nothing aftermarket available.
These days, for many engines, you can buy a set of rods for the cost of a set of ARP fasteners and reconditioning them.
WOW! First time I saw DV was in Hot Rod magazine back in mid 80's. Think the cover said "750 HP nitrous build" was for a 350 small block Chevy.
Thanks David, I love this stuff!
Awesome that you are doing this for the children. I already give monthly to St.Jude and I encourage everyone to also.
I just want to say Thank you for the knowledge you share. It is priceless!
Nice, and thank you for showing us options for our engine builds.
Thank You David for sharing your knowledge...
✌😎❤
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Man I learn something every video thanks David
Thank you for teaching about saving weight over building and not planning well. Thank you sir. I am learning from each video
Thank you for sharing your knowledge... Great Build and Great Mission for St. Jude..... All the best.
Guys a bloody legend and still shares all his knowledge thank you. Total legend and god of all performances engines.
Great info as always! Many thanks!
Thank you for this information on rods I have preform some of the Lightning techniques but I did learn new tech
DV what you showed their is for sure some way cool stuff ,,, i never thought the weight saving of the push rods ,,, not ta mention what ya did to the rod cap ,,, you ALWAYS amaze me each and every day i watch ,,, you show and tell in great length,s on how to make things much better for us DIY guy,s ,,, THANKS so much for you doing what you do DV may god continue to BLESS YOU !!!
I've read where a stock block Ford 302 with a dampening plate on the bottom end of the engine under the oil pan and dampening plate either wear the rocker arms go or wear the lifter Valley is at can't really remember but I think it was in hot rod magazine the guy said the dampening plates were to take the vibration out and to help change the frequency of the vibration so the stock block wouldn't crack and split as easily and they said it works.
David thank u for helping the kids I am a lucky parent that my son is doing real good ..bless u Mr visard ..I will use everything u have taught me over the years I have a few of your books and I apply everything in them from a grateful dad thanks again David ...take care
Just subscribed; I love seeing the 318 pushed to its limits, then seeing those limits pushed further. Thanks for doing this! Not going to hazard a guess on the conn rod weight reduction.
Knew an old lad that built some amazing engine's! Some of the fastest revving engines I've ever seen, still to this day! And all I know about his secrets was he spent an awful lotta time with the crank and rod's!!! Everyone around wanted an engine built by him, but only a few people ended up with one sadly to say.
Keep bringing it David 👍
It’s a blessing that you are doing a video on stock rod prep for power because I am at the moment thinking about how to upgrade the rods in my PSI 8.8L (535ci) industrial BBC. The crank is Kellog, rods are Scat pro-stock, and the unknown pistons are forged with short coated skirts, but I want to upgrade the rod bolts to L-19 for turbo application. So I’ll be paying close attention . Thank you for sharing your knowledge Mr. Vizard.
God bless you for your efforts in st.jude
dude just wow i started watching this with bad ideas well financially bad haha
the moment u said 2 to 3 grams off the counterweight sold sold sold
i do not care how long this endevour takes me but i will now be lightening a 4.0L ford inline 6
there know to rev to 7000rpm safely but if i can shave alot off the mass wow just wow especially the stock rods
edit: up and coming australia based tuner / engine builder / engineer i will be awaiting every video
thank you so much
Most of this information I probably wouldn't use, but makes it easier for me to understand a lot of things that were just a given, useualy buy parts and put them in, all the best to yous and your loved ones
I can’t believe how quickly this went off the rails.
Mission Impossible was supposed to be 1HP per cubic inch using all stock parts but “massaging” them.
I agree. This definitely took a hard turn
Hi David thanx for this fantastic video for us old timers,everything you said i experienced the same way,i refuse to change my a14 datsun engine on electronic,because i get the same results with a modified distributer and ignition system with condenser and points in modified way,which i would like to discuss privately with you as this took me years to accomplish,the best reason ,i can fix it on the side of the road if it breaks down,dont need a towtruck,would just like to take the oppertunity to thank you for all the no bs videos and for proper knowledge shared with us,you are a remarkable engineer and race car builder,thank you so much ,
Regards
Nick
@Mr. Vizard: Thank you!
Will you show us in an next video, the one after you make the crankshaft lighter video, a video about lightening stock pistons? May be some material can be cut off or removed. And what not to cut off or remove!
And with what kind of tools you will do (did) that (?).
...so we see the specific parts before, in between while working on it, and the result at the end.
Thank you.
Wow, really nice machining.
St. Judes is a great charity. I’ve been donating for over 30 years. Great video. Great work. God bless you
So glad to find this channel. Your book on porting has helped me significantly. I built a floating flowbench as you described in your book, and it's helped me tremendously. My guess on the weight would be 43 grams lost in total.
45gram litter is my guess
I figured that the rod will have less wind resistance in the crankcase also.
Great project
great video! thank DV for the info. Rod weight difference is 114 grams lighter vs stock
DV, I'm all in at 96 grams lighter per rod ...thanks again for another excellent video!
I can safely say, the weight that I shaved of my pontiac rods, all 8 combine equaled the weight of 1 rod. I love your viedos.
Polishing the beams will help them live at rpm 😊...damn cast rods!
Yes, less spinning weight, fast spin , by product more power at end. Thank you sir
4 oz out of the rotating weight will drop lap times on a road race course more than 100 pound out of the car.
5 grams off each of the small ends on a V8 will gain the same as 4 oz off the rotating.
Most people do not understand how much reducing the Reciprocating weight will gain them which is because many fail to come to the realization that the piston stops and then is accelerated 2 times every revolution and how much easier it is to accelerate less weight.
Thanks David what you teach always makes sense. I lost 96 lbs. and I certainly move in a far more efficient manner and feel great.
Good for you, hell yeah!
That's perfect. I'm doing the same myself and can agree that it is a MUCH better way to be.
I would love to see this on a crankshaft as well
Don’t let the centrifugal force weight you down!
Loose weight and run more freely!
Weeeee:)
Great vidja 🤙🏼
You mentioned the weight of the push rods. If the heads are clipped and the block decked, you will also have to use shorter push rods, which should be lighter, too.
Nice tips keep them coming.
Thanks!
Eager to see Casper rev!
That rod sure looks pretty Dave.
Thank you sir
Great video's David! I think they will be about 76 grams lighter per rod.
Another thing to consider: If you reduce the weight of the rotating assembly, the shock loading of the driveline will be reduced. And that can improve reliability.
Mr. Vizard. Thank you for giving a small amount of knowledge to the masses. I do have a guess for the total weight reduction on the rods.
My guess is 200 grams.
Thanks
Excellent thank you. You told almost all.. that mean you share knowledge - legacy but can mean also this is end era of internal combustion engine. and everything they drag behind them! goes down in history, which is a great loss! :D 20-30 years ago I could have killed for this data!
Can't wait to see how to home balance rod's at-home I did polish 360 rod's but I was afraid to touch the balance pads
You can easily balance the rods (and whole piston-pin-rod-bearing assemblies) at home with straightforward big-end / small end measurements but you also still need to spin balance the crank or at least know how to measure out the bobweight spec needed to send just the crank out and have a shop balance your crank for you instead of giving them the whole rotating assembly to balance or if you want interchangeability between engines or spares, etc...
I believe it is about 8 grams removed around the rod bolt area. I believe the total weight of the material around the bottom of the rod is 15 grams.
Taking weight from the end of the pendulum, you will have to most effect on your effectiveness of reciprocal mass. I have done this on Ford FE rods for years with the stock rods and ARP bolts using stretch on the bolts. I have never broken one at 1.5 hp per ci.
Id like to see how this would work on powdered mod engine rods (2v).
Anyone that's ever run aluminum flywheel versus steel knows lighting and balancing makes big difference. Use to do this 40 years ago on weed scales. I know to much information.
Prior videos i guessed 44.4g lightened for the small end and beam, i figure another 44.4 g on the big end for a new total of 88.8g off the rod. Thanks!
I’m sticking with 70g of lightening.
Way way to cool !!!!!
Excellent video as always Mr. Vizard!
I will go with 157 grams weight reduction please sir!!
I look forward to buying lots of raffle tickets, or bidding on the car.
12 grams each rod. Thank's for the videos David.
One penny weighs 3 grams.
Guess 88 grams per rod. Thanks so much, good stuff
GOLDEN!!!
more: investigate: " Does the modulus of elasticity change due to heat treatment? " "researchgate" has some info
P.S it's very cool these videos are being uploaded! I remember reading these books as a kid.
Thanks David! My guess is the cap has been lightened by 4 grams.
Thanks again for your expert advice!!!!
Beautiful work David, I'm guessing 35 grams.
With that large balance pad and bolt bosses lightened i think your going to lighten the cap about 125 grams
David I would gladly donate to St Jude’s and I have 2 years running now.
53 grams is my guess .Top video thanks so much
The rod cap rediction about 100gm and total rod weight reduction 200gm.
The early 273 and 318 rods are around 720 grams, vs 760 grams of the later rods.
Edit: for a long time in 340 builds people would switch to the lighter rod and have the rotating assembly reballannced.
I'm betting on 580
Dear Sir, regarding rods, wont aftermarket rods like Eagle and Scat not influence the lubrication of the cylinder walls? Original GM rods had oil thrower tabs on the outer side (crank side of the bearing pocket) most aftermarket rods have nothing? Will I need to modify the rods with oil channels or the crank before use?
DV, would it be cheating to use stock LS valve springs on this build, since they are a beehive design and very light, and can use a much smaller, lighter retainer? And how about LS-style 8mm valve stems?? Those stock 3/8ths stems are HEAVY!
Lightened by half and still stronger than a Chevy rod? That’s a beefy piece. This is fun.
Can u show us how u was goin to make bottom of engine smoother and the bottom of clyinders u talked about please
I'd guess it's 4.75% lighter per rod just doing the bolt holes or 13.5% lighter for all the lightening done per rod.
3:35 intro, 3min outro, lighten your vids 35%, save humanity days of wasted life, the other 65%, very informative and applicable. Headline question "What's a race prep on a stock rod worth?" you offhandedly answered 7-10hp on the drag strip. For someone who focuses on specifics and testing, 7-10 for your headline came across like a guess.
Ahhh! It’s over!! David. I am on the end of my set . Wow. I did not know you could chop that much off . How do you know is to much?
After I polished the beams of my Mopar 273 connecting rods to a smooth, shiny surface (back in the 1970's), I sent them out for shot-peening. When I received them back, I noticed the surface was no longer smooth, but more like sand paper. At the time, I thought the shot-peening was a way to "strengthen" the rods. Now I'm not sure because Mr. Vizard hasn't even mentioned that procedure (shot-peening, that is).
Shot peening is a process of strengthening the material near the surface by peening or hammering the cells of metal to make contact with all the adjacent cells. The idea being a stronger lattice. Made tons of factory rods into race rods, bushing for full float, loosing weight light he's doing here, then stress relieve, and shot peen. Today a process called kryo treating is done to bring the metal to such cold state as to allow the cells throughout to make complete and better bond and then slowly normalize. The teams for baja to nascar all do this. Expensive but when the purse is a million or so. They do it on all the hard parts from ring gears to piston pins and locks.
It doesn't strengthen them as such, but does make them more resistant to fatigue failure by setting up beneficial residual compressive stresses in the surface of the rod.
If you're asking how much is removed from around the rod bolts only, I'm going to say about 8 grams. If you're asking for both the rod bolt and balance pads, I'm going to say 32 grams
My guess for the rod big end weight reduction is 45 grams.
A rod is made weaker with those pads removed. Sure it might not fail 5oday but in the future. At least use a 4340 rod if you want to do this. You may have to drill holes in the crank now that the rods are lighter. When a rod is thrust upward that balance pad adds strength to the lower rod cap. Taking it away isn't a great idea. A fatigued rod is not worth messing with.
I'd guess about 80 grams per rod taken off, give or take maybe a dozen grams. that adds up quickly when you take into consideration the amount you can take off the crank.
72 g lighter per rod. Get some glyptal in those cases to further reduce 'windage'.
92 Crams taken off.
Great content. I will lighten rods for big fours on the street (think Ford/Lima 2.5L). By removing weight from the small end, polishing beams and using a lighter piston there is a noticeable improvement in smoothness. I leave the big ends alone (rotating weight). No dynamic balancing, just static weight match.
Take away places that can start a stress fracture and they become significantly more reliable.
I’d say the rod is say 8 grams lighter by re shaping the shoulder around the rod bolt…
Im going to say that removing the big lump off the bottom of the rod is going to lighten it 47 grams and the nut pad will lose 18 grams
Is it possible to show how to balance crankshaft with new lighter pistons and upgraded rods?
For the total amount of mass reduction of the rods: 150 grams
I'm guessing 108 gram reduction since both rod and cap had material removed.