Disney Star Wars Fan On Why Rise Of Skywalker Failed 5 Months Later
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
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The way they planned it reminds me of Guardians of the Galaxy: “I have a plan...I have, part of a plan...12% of a plan”
12 percent? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!
But that 12% of a plan actually worked
Colleen Ross yes well unfortunately in this case it having 12 percent of a plan didn’t work
It's okay for a movie series to make changes along the way, just as George Lucas himself did in the first 6 films.
@@gamestation2690 That would be fine if there was a clear plan through the Disney films. But it is clear in The Last Jedi that there was no plan from the start. And Rise of Skywalker makes it completely clear that not only was there no plan but instead of sticking to their guns and moving forward with what they had they were just going to try to appease the fans. Love or hate The Last Jedi Johnson made the film he wanted to make and damned the consequences. But Abrams didn't make Rise of Skywalker the film he wanted to make. He made the film he thought fans wanted.
John Campea whispering "Ben" will haunt my dreams tonight.
Someone whispering "Ben" to you when your name is Matt, hell yea that'll haunt you
So you pay over 4 billion for a IP and then "not have a plan"
It's so funny how this video starts so formally and then John gets exponentially angry as the video goes on.
@@WitnessThis1000 I wasn't trying to be misleading it's just that halfway through the video his voice starts to shift and you can hear him getting upset as he reads the points he has written down, but it's true that he doesn't get close to ranting
He seems clear and in control of his reasons, not exponentially angry at all. For a reference on how that looks go watch the Campea show he recently did on RBats comments about working out (or not) during the pandemic. Rob just sat there stunned while Campea truly got the flywheel spinning.
He gets marginally more angry, not exponentially.
It mimics my feelings as the sequels went on.... and mine were exponential.
Number one reason for me. They obviously didn’t have a 3 movie plan. How could you not plan this out.
the original trilogy was not planned either & worked
I don’t think the OT not being “planned” doesn’t apply here. That was a completely different time. That was before Star Wars had developed a deep mythology and lore. Now, planning is everything.
@Rosencrantz ahh i see
Haha who buys a franchise for 4 billion dollars and DOESN'T plan its 3 most important movies. If Kathleen Kennedy was a man she would've been fired a LONG time ago.
@@saadakramsq8853 It may not have been fully planned out, but it was still one man's vision. With the sequel trilogy, there were too many people making creative decisions. Last Jedi disregards plot threads from Awakens, and Rise of Skywalker has to improvise and finish the trilogy, without breaking continuity. It's like the world's most expensive improv story, as JJ and Rian go back and forth. To do that with one of the biggest IP's of all time is ludicrous.
The most impressive thing about this Disney Trilogy is someone got payed to write these films.
payed lol....
What writing I don’t see it must just be me
Screw Kathleen Kennedy
It’s unbelievable. The old school Zahn books were waaay better than what Disney made, and I thought the Zahn books were just your average fantasy.
Well, for Rise of Skywalker, people got paid.... but there were no writers involved.
Hey John I think this trilogy was doomed to go downhill years ago by the decisions Disney made before TFA. Star Wars strength before was strong, creative, mythological stories and world building. In the past there was always a good story core even when the execution was flawed.
Disney decided not to put story first, they decided it was a formula like any summer action flick. They had a whole galaxy of possibilities for different wars, different politics, inter-species conflict, exploring the Force, exploring the growing pains of the new Jedi Order etc. They needed to first hire good authors, write compelling new stories and only then give it to movie directors. It actually would have been both more creative and safer for them to write a new story; a new adventure, a new threat to the galaxy that our heroes (both old and new) have to face. The characters could have gone on that new adventure and the audience would have been intrigued and compelled.
Instead they abandoned the spirit of fantasy / sci-fi world building and retconned the previous story / character arcs in order to rehash them. So the first order replaces the empire as oppressive regime. StarKiller base replaces the death star. Snoke/Palps play the same story role as the emperor did before. Droid on the run with secret data again. So BB8 replaces R2D2. Anakin is not really the chosen one we are told. Han Solo's character arc regressed back to a smuggler in debt. The Jedi order fails in the exact same way again, one boy turns dark and destroys it all. So Kylo replaces Anakin. Grand Jedi Master goes into exile again except this time he goes to die, so Luke replaces Yoda. In repeating these plots they undermined the story arcs of the OT and the PT. One example is the previous arc about the fall of the Jedi, how the Jedi went wrong, how Qui Gon was the purest Jedi and how he eventually from the afterlife led Yoda/Obiwan on the right path during their solitude, which allowed them to train Luke better; he was asked to pass on what he had learned. But disney tells us he failed just like the previous jedi council so that story arc is also invalidated.
The audience subconsciously senses this lack of creative inspiration. It's a complete immersion buster when we realize that the new movies don't really have a story to tell and are just trying to contrive a plot to justify their existence. The audience then loses the sense of wonder that comes with good fantasy / sci-fi. Nothing has any emotional weight from the star destroyers to the lightsaber battles. It all feels so shallow. Like the creators are trying to dupe us into caring by surface level stuff and nostalgia.
More people need to read Hum Bug’s post. He absolutely nails it!
Totally agree, but there's one big thing about all of it. All the things you blame on "them", that "they" did in your 3rd paragraph... the "they" here is JJ. Of course they did hire him, and probably did so based on his safe sounding pitch, but at the end of the day it was still *his* safe sounding pitch.
This is why I feel we will be seeing a course correction. We have seen it a bit with Clone Wars season 7 and The Mandalorian already. They realized they screwed up and are now putting these more original stories on a higher pedestal than they have been for TRoS.
I agree with you 100%. And if they were going to use the former cast members, at least dont wreck what was already established and solved at the end of ROTJ. They had nothing new to say, while killing off the entire Skywalker family. Like, what a downer.
The last ones weren't terrible. They just needed more white dudes looking cooler than everyone else. Then it would have been much much better. I think thats the main reason people loosing their &@%#. On a subconscious level. People are taking it too seriously. We are adults. Yoda (in Empire) waiting for kids to save the galaxy hiding on a swamp planet is really really effed up and moronic. But I didnt care when i was 11. Mother on the other hand poked holes all in it. Because she was old...... like John.
@@tracy2539 Exactly. They failed to understand that while people love the legacy characters they did want to see new adventures for them. Not to see the previous stories arcs get retconned.
What an opportunity they had with Luke, Leia and Han. Imagine if somebody told you at the time of the acquisition that the way disney would use the grand jedi master Luke Skywalker was to give him no speaking role in the first movie and dupe the audience into getting hyped for his return in the next, before killing him off on an island and that he never turns on his lightsaber, never flies his x-wing, never is shown with a padawan relationship, never engages in diplomacy or any jedi business. Oh and his personality is rewritten.
It feels like disney did not know they had gold in their hands with these characters and thought they could easily replicate what George did.
They brought palpatine back, just to kill him off after a 5 minute fight. They didnt even bother to build him up over the 3 sequel films... If they planted more clearer seeds in the force awakens, started to reveal the stakes and palpatine in the last jedi ... Then the climax would be more satisfying in Rise of skywalker.
ALSO!... They missed out BIG time on the Anakin story line
This just shows how lazy Hollywood and Disney are today. They like to put political nonsense in the well known franchises and it’s so frustrating. We came here to be entertained, not to be brainwashed.
It was clear they had no plans to use palpatine to begin with. It was clear they had no plans for the trilogy whatsoever. The worst thing they did was let rian Johnson write the script for TLJ with no oversight at all. Everything went downhill from there.
MetallicNole@ I think TLJ sucks to, but come on. The writing in this trilogy was bad from the opening crawl of TFA. None of the people involved in the writing of any of these films are good story tellers.
IMO. I feel like maybe Palpathine could’ve still been the overall villain. Like maybe they could’ve said that a secret apprentice or an imperfect clone of Palpathine is trying to bring back him back, but as a perfect clone. They could’ve said the Palpathine killed the Cloners from Episode 2, and that’s why they can’t create a perfect clone. Maybe the new trilogy could’ve been to stop a perfect Palpathine clone from coming back 🤷🏻♂️ at least it wouldn’t dismiss Anakins and Luke’s sacrifice.
JJ Abrams did not expect Rian Johnson to kill Snoke. If Snoke was not dead there would be no need to bring back the Emperor.
I hate all of the three sequel films 😂
you are truly strong with the force
Good
Good I can feel your angah
Good Anakin.... good... **Sidious voice**
They never happened
This movie was the equivalent of a student doing all of a project the night before it was due for the presentation. It just felt like a bunch of procrastination without rhyme or reason.
Hey I hit Spell Check before I turned it in, that counts as a 2nd draft, right?
Or maybe the student prepared for it but someone bullied them into doing something completely different.
I'd rather just pretend these last 3 episodes never happened.
That’s exactly what I’m doing. It’s easy to forget them if you don’t own any copies of them, and you pretend they don’t exist.
This.
The Disney Trilogy is incredibly bad. It's shocking just how awful it all turned out. In the end, the Disney Trilogy was a pointless, mean-spirited, ill-conceived corporate cash grab.
I don't. I very much recognize their existence. The only way to learn from mistakes is to acknowledge them. The Sequels are badly written films, and that should be acknowledged. At the same time, and more difficult for some Star Wars fans, The Prequels should also be acknowledged as badly written. We can't learn if we don't recognize. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to watch The Last Jedi for entertainment purposes, but in the future, I may watch it again just to really break it down and learn from it. I broke down The Phantom Menace recently and wrote pages of notes about how nothing in the movie makes sense, even though I do occasionally watch The Phantom Menace for its entertainment value. This is why I don't look down on anyone who enjoys The Sequels or The Mandalorian. If you're entertained, that's great, but they should be seen for what they are, which is badly written.
As far as I'm concerned The Force Awakens and Rogue One can hang out with the Star Wars movies. TLJ and TROS can just fade away...
The only problem with that is... they wasted luke, han, leia and lando irl.
All I remember from this garbage was the guy next to me saying ‘really’ every 10 minutes - stupid scene after stupid scene
AG Systems120 sorry about that
@@richardsears4811 It may have been me actually. I won't apologise though.
Audience: Why is Palpatine back?
Disney: Just because
Disney: SHUT UP AND GIVE ME YOUR MONEY!!!
‘’Somehow...Palpatine has returned’’
@@NoobmasterFC one of many dreadful lines in that movie
Disney: "You have to read the $300 of tie-in materials we published after the movie, DUUHH!!!"
UNLIMITED DESPERATION!!!!!
Three words:
LACK. OF. PLANNING. That's why I can't see any of the sequels as an individual film, the entire trilogy failed as a whole.
Honestly, TLJ did feel in line with TFA. TROS was really the only one that had no planning whatsoever. It’s why TROS doesn’t exist in my head.
I’ve spent way too much time thinking about this and up till a week ago, I would have agreed with you. My new opinion is this:
Three words:
LACK. OF. PURPOSE.
There’s a big difference.
Any amount of research will tell you the original trilogy, the prequels, the mandalorian and many a beloved classic film had NO cohesive plan. But they had a PURPOSE. A why. A destination in mind. A reason for telling the story. A statement of some kind. An idea to be built upon and expanded.
My current theory is:
Original Trilogy: Purpose in mind- excellent execution.
Prequel trilogy: purpose in mind- flawed execution
Sequel trilogy: No purpose in mind - excellent execution
That’s why the prequel trilogy is still beloved despite having some awkward execution. George was writing them on the fly. He didn’t have them all written out in advance. But it was always clear what it was about. How a good kid can go bad. A tragedy.
Original trilogy was the heroes journey. And the sequels- though beautifully shot and acted - have no real purpose. What are they about?
Larry Kenobi I almost agree with you. I think TFA & TLJ did have a purpose in exploring the galaxy after the OT and how the big evil you defeat will still inspire other evils. The problem is that TROS destroyed the story and everything the movies were going for. It’s why I don’t consider TROS as part of the ST.
But I do think you have a point. The prequels had a point even if they were horrible at it. And TROS has no purpose other than just destroying everything that came before.
Indiana Solo maybe you’re right. I liked TFA and TLJ but tros has really soured me on the whole thing. I think TLJ had a clear purpose and theme as a film. The clearest of all the Disney era. But maybe I expected that to be built upon to a glorious crescendo in the third film, revealing a well foreshadowed destination that brings the three movies together and gives them a reason for existing together as a trilogy. But that clearly didn’t happen. I’m curious how these films will age
A movie series doesn't necessarily NEED planning in order to work, you know.
A big mistake was scrapping the Treverrow script. That script looked superb, had politics, an intriguing plot AND it followed on from The Last Jedi so would have felt more cohesive
It's really sad because that one had so much
Yes it honoured TLJ and its plot and even corrected some of its mistakes
Well, they would have had to change quite a bit of it anyways given Carrie Fisher’s death.
@MasterOnion North poor Daisy was told by JJ during TFA that Rey had no blood relation to anybody, must've been gutting when the guy who invented her character from scratch then completely changes his plan for the last movie.
Don’t forget it had PT Easter eggs
The whole sequel trilogy just didn’t work
it's like dceu failure. No plan
NormaLee Both started with great movies.
Man Of Steel is the most underrated superhero movie ever.
Force awakens was good.
Then they went to shit. Wonder Woman and aqua man and Shazam where good movies though.
This sequel trilogy never happened
I enjoyed it.
Yes it sucked and so many deleted scenes and sequences removed because of Kennedy. The wrong director was chosen and should have been a Single director with a clear story arc. Might as well have hired David Lynch :) : D
Those are not nitpicks for me, they're deal breakers.
Actually, a lot them were nitpicks. But we live in a time where excessive nitpicks are consider "valid criticism".
@@WitnessThis1000 Hmmm sure, not all of them were nitpick just that most of them were nitpicks. But even the ones that wasn't stem from fundamental misunderstanding of what the sequel trilogy was about.
Not saying, there isn't any valid criticism against TROS. But I do think the weakest points against episode nine tend to be the most popular.
@@WitnessThis1000 Rey's origin being a walkback from the first two films. Kylo's redemption not being hinted in previous films, etc.
@@WitnessThis1000 Er, during the fight with Kylo in TFA. Rey's fighting style was similar to that of Palpatine. And in TLJ, Rey is clearly drawn to the darkside of the force. So no, Rey's origin reveal is not a walkback. In fact, there were more hints to Rey being Palps granddaughter than Leia being Luke's long lost twin sister.
@@neosoontoretro You are so right about this. The problem with toxic fandom now is that they take their own interpretation of one detail and make this massive backstory or perception of it that they get pissed off about when the actual creators of the story do something different. I can't stand it. But I can get it. The Luke/Leia relationship was supposed to be romantic, then suddenly they are brother and sister didn't sit well with me at the time and I was only 11. The Clone Wars not being exactly what I had spent 20 years building up in my head, was a bit disappointing but I never really solidified what I thought it was supposed to be, so okay. But we get what we get and we should take it with stride, and not whine on and on and on about it. And like you proved, here, usually people are just plain wrong. There are so many things in RoS they make actual sense, are not backtracks in any way, and fully support TLJ rather than tear it down. But all those fans say we are wrong even though the evidence is right there in the films, so much so, a child can even see it. And maybe that's the disconnect most people have all along. We were never supposed to outthink Star Wars, but always let it be exactly what it is.
It feels more like 5 years from The Rise of Skywalker...
Quarantine does some screwed up things to time.
Rogue one was my favorite and The Force Awakens was a good start but fizzled out after that.
My raction to the Force Awakens, Another Death Star? sigh
Sorry, but to me, Rogue One is without a doubt, the WORST of the Disney era Star Wars films.
When Anakin build C3P-0, he programmed it to not understand Sith. 😂
I don't think he needed to write something that's that low level. You don't write a Weblogic app by writing Weblogic from scratch. There may had protocol module you could buy to plug it in your droid I suppose, which could come with 'directives' like Robocop. 😅
How would Anakin even know about sith language to program him to understand it but be forbidden to translate
scrambles code making sith unintelligible to 3PO... Regardless of what language they are speaking.. Canon fo' sho
C3P0 was a standard protocol droid so Anakin must have just assembled him from a kit or he found him in a scrap heap somewhere.
When your film is devoid of heart and has a story that’s driven by marketing and fan service rather than character development or themes, then your film will be a failure no matter what.
Endgame was full of fan service, but it also had heart and emotion. I really hate that fan service has become this dirty word. You can give the fans what they want, but also do it in a way that makes sense and serves the story well.
That too only fan service toward the orginals n ignorance towards the overarching lores n themes set up by the prequels.... this trilogy was almost done hating everything abt the prequels...n thts where u end up
Fan service itself isn't a bad thing. Fan service in a BAD movie however is another story.
@The Dude Abides Rian Johnson's film was full of heart, didn't rely on fan service, and had a story driven by character development and themes
Rian Johnson did a deconstruction.. within a story you are deconstructing, not sure if it is the peak of stupidity or arrogance on their part.
JJ really blew up the new trilogy because of his “mystery and secrecy” the force awakens is a pretty basic Star Wars movie nothing new we’ve seen and the Rise of Skywalker really blew it up.
Keep him away from D.C properties.
The writing was truly terrible. Jeffrey is a great producer, but a terrible writer.
The last fecking jedi blew it and danced on it grave nothing could fix it and any good ideas they had that idiot kennedy would not allow her agenda came first.
No, that would be Rian Johnson.
JJ Abrams should've directed all 3 movies to begin with. IMO Force Awakens was a good movie, but episode 8 & 9 were okay. Disney should have stuck to one director's vision.
Yeah but he’s always been too chicken to see a project through. I can’t remember the last time he fully told a cohesive story. But then again I haven’t seen every single one of his movies
Thing is that JJ Abrams couldnt do the entire trilogy due to an existing deal with Paramonut
Agreed. I’ve never understood having a franchise under the watch and care of different people. I immediately thought after seeing 7 that I hoped 8 was filmed right after because the continuity was going to be wrong if they picked up where they left off.
Jj can’t write to save his life he’s very generic Kasdan and Terrio aren’t creative. Terrio and Kasdan are known to funnel Zack Snyder’s and Lucas ideas to paper. Jj Abrams needs someone like Damon Lindelof to hold him through because he’s an actual creative writer that works well with Jj
Funny how the only "good" Disney movie was basically a carbon copy of "A New Hope" not trying to argue im just saying. Anything actually original they tried to do was garbage. Except Rogue One that was solid.
But John, you're forgetting that the reveal of Palpatine's return was a live event in fortnite (I kid you not)
I heard about that after I saw the movie and I just wanted to bang my head against a wall
😶😐😑🤦♂️
The dead speak in a video game.
@@DollopWise Genius!! It is now head canon that Palpatine announced his return on a live fortnite event.
I didn’t like any of the Disney era saga films, but love Rogue One and Solo.
Same though I initially liked the Force Awakens.
rogue one is great, solo is good but the actor, he cant do harrison ford. he is a good actor but seeing him force himself into harrison's solo is cringy. i blame the casting director.
Jagoan Neon nobody can do Harrison Ford. I mean, you either are able to look past that or not but I think Alden did the best anyone can really do but Harrison is blessed with natural charm and charisma that few others have.
Rouge One is Decent. Solo is at least not offensively bad.
Rogue One was OK, lacked any characters to care about the mission.
Solo was crap, boring and shoved everything important in his life into one week.
As for the trilogy, I liked Force Awakens upon release because I thought it was a good set up for later stories. The Last Jedi was betrayal and the Rise of Skywalker was a disaster.
The Rise Of Skywalker was put in a position of following The Last Jedi. One of the big reasons so many people, myself included, were upset at that middle film is due to the second film crushing plot threads and not leaving enough for a third film. So, the third film really feels just tacked on. I don't hate it, I'm just apathetic.
Duel Of Fates script proved there was a story to tell after 8
A plan would have been great, but if RJ would have been as generous to the filmmaker following him as JJ was to him, he would have left some narrative meat on the bone for Ep.9 but he didn't. When you have a team making a trilogy, they have to play like a team.
JJ Abrams wanted a 5 hour story told in 2 movies. Kennedy said no. So he made one 3 hours 45 minutes (3:45) movie. JJ cut the movie down to 3:00. Kathleen Kennedy shrunk it to 2:22. It could be JJ and Chris Terrio had a better movie planned.
I dislike all three of the sequel films especially 8 and 9.
8s actually good when you view it on its own merits
@@ZR38315 NO
@@ZR38315 View it on its own merits? you mean you view it as if it has nothing to do with episode 1-7? Well I guess season 8 of game of throne is good if you ignore seasons 1-7 too.
wizdumbbk actually watching 8 with the context of the other films makes it all the better.
@@IsaacV24 No, nothing makes it better. Episode 7,8 and 9 don't make sense at all in the context of the other films. They should never have been made.
I walked out of the cinema after watching the film and felt I’d had enough of Star Wars. What a waste of talent from the actors to be slotted into a politically focused, forced (no pun intended) and broken story line.
John! love the show. But i disagree about Kylo's redemption.
Kylo Killed Han because it was his dark side moment. It was him being an idiot child and proving to the sith leaders that he's a bad dude too. THis was made worse by the fact that he literally worshipped Vader. In that movie he literally says that he feels the light side calling him.
At the end of TFA he has a connection to Rey. In TLJ he has a weak moment and cant shoot down Leia and then also has more connections to Rey. He is conflicted. TLJ makes sense. Kylo Ren does not love Luke Skywalker. But that makes sense after he beleived that Luke tried to murder him.
I don't agree that Kylo Ren's path to the light "Just happened'. Ren had been deliberately resisting the light the entire time. It has always called to him. but the final straw wasn't Kylo Ren going to the light. IT was Rey killing Kylo Ren (who was distracted because of Leia) that allowed Ben to see the light.
I think you're being very glass half full on Kylo (which is totally fine to do) but I'd counter he seemed quite comfortable in his dark side rage at the end of Last Jedi. He also jumped on a chance to not attempt to take out the Emperor at the beginning of Rise but instead take him up on his offer of the ruling yada yada. The fact that his change seems to hinge on getting nearly killed and healed again, and then another talking to with memory-dad seems distinctly different from Vader's change which was just as non-verbal and abrupt. The difference was Kylo changed based on things that happened to him, whilst Vader made the decision as he watched something happening to someone else--and chose to finally intervene (we'll forget the "NO!" added.) I think Driver did a great job with the lines and scenes, I merely wish they'd have laid a bit more ground than just him literally saying it out in Force Awakens.
I actually liked Kylo's stance by the end of the last Jedi as someone who couldn't be redeemed. I was looking forward to him taking on an apprentice and thought that there inclusion of palpatine was unnecessary. They could have went so many different ways with him turning totally dark: knights of Ren and other dark side players hunting down his mother and him having to slaughter them but without going to the light, resistance characters revealed to be sleeper agents, Rey convincingly turning to the dark, etc.
I personally believe that JJ has never taken a writing class and that he hired the Justice league writer off of pure incompetence/foresight. And that the inclusion of Palpatine is just his inability to be imaginative and creative and rely on nostalgia.
I couldn’t agree more. The only thing planned out and consistently foreshadowed in this trilogy is Bens redemption. It’s hinted at in every episode
@@larrykenobi5423 Giving you the thumbs up purely on the name. How did it go purchasing some midichloreons?
Maybe, but then again Kylo is probably the only half decent thing to come out of this abomination of a trilogy.
The best part of the film was the Tenet Prologue.
This last movie really shows all the cracks of this trilogy imo. You can let some things go with how TFA and TLJ wrap up, but now that we have the all 3 movies, they all feel broken as a whole.
No, I wasn't crazy about TFA but it was just the starting block. TLJ fucked everything up. Thankfully I ended up loving TROS which is a miracle considering how down I was about the new trilogy up to that point.
Ben’s path to redemption actually started in The Last Jedi, him deciding he’d make no more sacrifices to Snoke, then messing up, then regretting his actions on Crait - and then letting the Resistance get away, which would have irritated First Order hardliners to no end. Abrams, Terrio, and Trevorrow were handed Ben’s turning point on a silver platter. And they missed it. Also, Ben at no point tried to kill Rey. There were many moments when Rey tired out, he had the advantage, and he just stopped and waited until Rey was back up. Rey was the one initiating all the attacks.
As far as Rey's lineage problem, I think it could be resolved with her parents instead being apart of cult who worships the emperor and were hand chosen by palpatine to breed him a new heir/body to transfer himself into.
They think his plan is crazy, they escape, try to hide on Jaku but are eventually captured with them leaving Rey and a lie is told about them as space junkies.
Leia : Ben...
Kylo: WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!?
Got to wonder, would she feel bad knowing it got him gutted? Or was she hoping Rey would cut him down and then patch him right back up again.
This film was written by the same guy
Save Beeeeeen soloooooo !!!
Why would the emperor reveal he is back before his ships were ready to go? Why wouldn’t he reveal himself as he and his ships destroyed the first planet on his path to dominate the galaxy ? It is stupid writing
The bad motivator wasn't "luck," but, I believe, it was R2 causing it via some sort of signal he sent, which enabled him to stay as the lone mech droid.
If it were up to me, I would've used a Sith holocron containing Palpatine's essence to bring him back as a spectre or revenant.
I’m glad it wasn’t up to you ...
Kylo Ren’s redemption is far from one of the flaws of the movie.
John i LOVED this video, im kinda tired tbh of star wars talk but when someone so well spoken like you talks abouts film its always a pleasure to hear, i know that you arent a fan of video essays, but i would beg you to make more of these kind of videos, talking about the meaning of certain scenes in certain movies, the magic in vfx, etc... i love all your content, and cant get enough of it
I liked Force Awakens, loved Last Jedi. And despised Rise of Skywalker
I felt like I was taking crazy pills when I saw this in the theaters. Thank goodness there's a CZcamsr raging about the expanded mesh of plotholes of which this movie and trilogy was comprised.
Disney's Log Line: The Force is strong with this one. Everyone Else: That's not how the Force works.
The Planet at the beginning of Rise of Skywalker was Mustafar and the Sith Wayfinder was at Vader's Fortress
Excellent. The next time someone asks me why I didn’t like this movie, or the whole new trilogy, I will just send them this video!
I don't even recognize the Disney space balls movies!!!!
Wait, Spaceballs was good.
The whole trilogy failed. People figured that out when they realized Disney didn't even plan the trilogy - Rian tore everything down just to screw with expectations to his pleasure and left nothing to work with in the third movie, causing a third act that was only damage control for a VERY flawed flow. They made their money, but wasted five years of potential, and we were the ones left with nothing in the end.
JJ called it mysteries box, I call it lazy writing
I remember the theory back then was that Snoke was actually Darth Plageus who cheated death.
A festival that occurs every 42 years? A New Hope came out 42 years ago. Am I the only one who got that reference?
No
No
Nope
No... no your not
Coincidentally the number 42 may also be a reference to "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy".
Reason No 1 = Horrid franchise direction by Kathleen Kennedy.... From not having a laid out plan for a trilogy to hiring directors with different vision for the franchise in a same 3 film trilogy. The Emperor was used to fill in the role that Snook had.... Rian Johnson screwed it up which brings me to Exhibit No 2 for the failure of not just Rise of Skywalker but the entire sequel trilogy.... The Last Jedi..... But i digress continue on John. Continue on....
That’s the problem. Snoke is Emperor 2.0. Why does Snoke have to last till the 3rd film?
Fan: well because we need someone for Kylo to redeem himself against.
Yea but why does Kylo need to be redeemed? I’m glad that Snoke was killed because he wasn’t interesting Just an evil dude who sits in a chair. Emperor wasn’t a deep character with an elaborate backstory in Return of the Jedi. He was essentially a vehicle/plot service for Vader’s redemption. This time around Snoke is a plot device for Kylo’s further descent into the darkness. This is why I wish he wasn’t redeemed and it was just the main villain in the last one.
There are no set of rules. I mean did you really want Kylo to throw Snoke down a hole? Is that what this new trilogy is all about? Just reminding of you stuff from the original trilogy. Now what we get is even worse. Because angry fans wanted Kylo to redeem himself in the 3rd one cause that is what Vader did, we bring back Palpatine and partially negate Vader’s sacrifice.
You wanna know what J.J’s plan was for Snoke? Nothing. No big elaborate backstory and even there was it was gonna be disappointing. He gave ya a backstory. Now you know he’s a clone. Not very interesting huh? I’m sorry but anyone who hears enough interviewers can see that Johnson is far more knowledgeable about film that Abrams. Abrams just spent most of his time rewatching Spielberg and Lucas’ earlier films in the 70s and 80s and understood them on the most superficial level. He doesn’t have an original bone in his body.,
SmartypantsTutoring I agree about JJ. Hell I’ve hated all of the movies thus far. It seemed like I was the only one that didn’t like The Force Awakens when it came out because to me, it was just a recreation of the past movies(way too much in fact). The reason I hated the movies all together was that I grew up a Star Wars nerd that read a lot of the extended universe material. I would’ve been much more interested in a story that was similar to that of Jacen and Jana solo, along with Anakin solo.
@@SmartypantsTutoring I would have prefered if Kylo died by Snooke's hands in the final confrontation with maybe him saving Rey. Similar to the Spider Man 3 fight between Spider Man and Harry Osborne vs Venom... And yes before you say it i detest that film due to its untapped potential and horrid execution but that is another way for a character to gain redeption. In his final death. But not vs Palpatine that ship had sailed. It should have been vs Snook or another big bad...
@@aeroslayer7676 I also disliked The Force Awakens but i detested The Last Jedi and basically by the time TRoS hit i was ambivilant and was expecting trash and trash is what i got. In order of most dislikes to least disliked i would say TLJ, then TRoS then TFA.... All are bad and imo at the level of the Clone War prequel.... In the gran scope of things and especially story telling wise Phantom Menace and The Revenge of the Sith are miles MILES ahead of the trash that was given to us in the sequel trilogy. Whose fault is this? George Lucas... You sell your property and dont retain majority creative control this is what happens when greedy corporations that dont understand the core of your ideas get the power.
The elephant in the room here is the lack of acknowledgement that it was Rian Johnson's TLJ that screwed up all these story beats, leaving a near-impossible task with the finale.
John keeps saying Endor, but it's actually Kef Bir. Also, Ben's struggle with the light and redemption has been set in place since The Force Awakens. It's been there in a subtle way, but it's always been there. Ben has always retained a special connection with his mother from the time he was in her womb (i.e. Aftermath trilogy).
I think we need to address the elephant in the room, The Last Jedi. While The Force Awakens left a lot of loose threads for the sequels to follow up on. The Last Jedi tied up all those loose threads, but didn’t create any new ones for the next movie. The Rise of Skywalker was just asked to do too much and the movie suffered for it.
You also can’t under estimate how much Carrie Fisher’s death affected the plan. The Rise of Skywalker was supposed to be her movie to shine. Four years into a six year filming sequence and you lose one of your most important characters, how do you recover from that? Had we not lost Carrie Fisher I believe we would have seen a complete and planed out story.
I completly disagree. The last jedi was a poor movie on his own and didn’t closed anything. Yeah they stupidly killed snoke, buy left kylo as the new big bad guy so, nothing closed there. Knights of ren were still a mistery tu resolve. Reys linage was still a mistery instead of what kylo said (who would believe him? He is the villain, dah). The rebelion was in their worst moment ever and Rey had the jedi texts. They could had make a lot of things in the last movie that maybe they try, buy they execute as bad as the last jedi.
And Carrie’s death afected the movie, but it’s another sign of how bad their planing was. If they would had an structure when Carrie pasted away, they would have said “we need to recast her, our movie structure needs Leia to do specific things in the movie. That was our plan and we stick to it”. Instead, they had no idea of what they where doing for the third movie, even when Carrie was alive, so.. doesn’t change it that much. This franchise was destined to disaster the moment they decide not to plan anything
As john implied (and I agree with him on that)- jt is not about Carry Fisher's death; it is about an utter lack of planning from way before Carry Fisher died. The whole trilogy was botched by delegating it to different directors. There is no such a tv hing as vision-by-committee. Sfar Wars trilogies have always been in effect a single movie broken into three parts- and they were dome by a single director! Until the last trilogy, of course, which madethem into THREE discrete movies (we don't need to call them a trilogy)- all of this failure of vision landing squarely on Mrs. Kennedy. And most people are not dim and clearly see this. Cheers!
We got a whole script from Colin Trevorrow showing how to pick up the threads from episode 8. And it looked legitimately good.
And while I agree Fisher's passing complicates things, if you're intent on making a film, you have to accept the fact she can't figure into it and find another angle. Hamill was still there, after all.
We all know the Skywalker Saga ended in 1983.
Thank you. Star Wars, Empire and Return are literally the best ones and no star wars movie has surpassed any of them since. Goes to show you how fucked the idea is.
No it didn’t it ended In 2005 and it’s expansive ending is 2019 the true ending is in 2005 tho
Basically
@@spideysg1163 It middled in 2005 xD
1983, totally agree.
I like to think that Palpatine’s offer was sort of a Godfather thing, where if Kylo didn’t take his offer, Palpatine would send his superior army to wipe out the F.O.
John’s right: the lack of an overall plan is the Sequel Trilogy’s biggest flaw and that became obvious with The Last Jedi, which has some good bits (and some awful ones too) but completely fails as the middle act of a three-act story. I kind of enjoyed Rise of Skywalker but felt that it’s predecessor left it with far too much to do plot-wise and it ended up collapsing under the strain.
I agree with this. It was beautifully made, as all Star Wars movies are. The key issue was the writing. A group of school kids could have done better than this in an afternoon class.
The terrible writing made this not just the worst Star Wars movie, but also the worst ending to any major saga of movies in cinematic history.
The WORST Star Wars film?? That's capital.
In all honesty, I would have preferred George’s vision for the sequels, you know that he would have progressed the story and lore.
I hope one day his outlines are released.
I agree with almost all your points. Except, your point about Kylo Ren’s redemption. To me, It was clear that it was coming and it was clear that it was going to be a modern redemption. I feel that you missed all the signs or you thought it was too obvious and convinced yourself otherwise. But “ no one is really gone”. I feel conflicted about the sequel trilogy. It was entertaining, but sad. I walked out of the movie mourning all the dead. I wanted to like it just like I loved episodes 7 and 8, but 9th was just ridiculously fast and hard to enjoy.
Why didn't Rey go by the name Organa? Leia was a closer family member than Skywalker. In fact, she dispised Skywalker and left after not getting trained.
Did Leia's ghost say "Ben"? I thought she said "Martha".
Rey was a video game character. Cant remember her taking much damage throughout the trilogy.
She didn’t. She took hardly any damage at all throughout all 3 films lol she pretty much was like an OP videogame character
I seriously want them to remake Rise of Skywalker. Not reshoots, not rewrites, just fire Abrams and Terrio, bring in someone new, and remake the entire movie
Loved this format/styled review! Thank you for making this!! I feel like you read my mind!
This is an amazing way to describe a bad movie . Only reason we still talk about such a crappy movie is the Star Wars name!
In the end, Star Wars is about the Palpatine legacy.
This is actually true. The real "chosen one" is from Palpatine's lineage
The Skywalker legacy has not only been wiped out but tarnished and made redundant from history.
In the book, the reason why no one touched Ochi’s ship is because the people that go over to that spot couldn’t reach it because that quick sand surrounded it and would lead them to that serpent and their deaths. That’s why Ochi died as soon as he walked out that ship with the dagger down there. The dagger’s coordinates brought them to that spot to where they are standing to pull out the compass part. Them just happening to stand in that spot isn’t coincidence because the dagger brought them there so that the next step can be to use the compass part. And I believe with Lando’s mission, he also sent out a broadcast for help, so he didn’t physically go to everyplace the ships were from. And I’m pretty sure it was never said it was done within ten minutes. Although it is ridiculous that it was still all done in a short amount of time but I find that as a small nitpick. These are just some things I found over the past few months and wanted to share to coincide some of your arguments. I also agree that some of things that were explained in the book should of been explained in the movie, such as how Palpatine came back.
When Luke died at the end of TLJ maybe Palapatine could've possessed his body, would've been fun to see Mark Hamill get a juicy villain role and would've added a real conflict of feelings as we finally see the full power of Luke but for evil. He'd overpower him in the end obviously.
Luck has always been part of SW and can be explained as the living Force taking an interest. I would agree this film takes it too far.
Well Old Ben said there is no such thing as luck 40 something years ago. ☺
Seriously, the whole "I am one with the force and the force is with me" deal is also luck. With that lense 90%+ of the movie we ever seen could fall into the same category, including documentary. If it's not for luck, things being boring and nobody go see.
Yes a little luck has always s been there not the driving force
That’s True. Small luck here and there is fine. But constantly relying on conveniences and then covering up lazy writing with “iTs dA fOrCe” is taking it too far.
Its kind of ironic that alot of the "nitpicks" John mentions especially about Rey are arguments people have made saying that she is a MarySue. But in the end all the Disney era sequels did was divide a fanbase and ruin a loved franchise.
People used to say that the Prequel Trilogy ruined a loved franchise, and complained about how much George Lucas raped their childhoods. I was there.
I'd argue that the lack of a plan caught up to them after TFA was released and they had no working plan to move on from there.
I saw the original Star Wars in 1977 when I was 14 and have been a fan ever since...I even like the prequels and the first two Disney era sequels! But Rise of Skywalker left me disappointed. I may have liked it more than you but I believe you really nailed the reasons why Rise of Sky Walker left me feeling like something just wasn’t right. I think the main thing for me was my desire to see this trilogy be about Luke...we’re led to believe it was Luke who was the chosen one who’d bring balance to the Force...but instead it’s Rey...a Palpatine? I don’t think so! What disappointing way to end a saga I’ve been waiting for since I was 14, 43 years ago!
Disney's first mistake was remaking a worse version of a New Hope. The second mistake was following that movie up with an even worse movie. The third mistake was managing to make an even worse movie than the previous two.
Rouge One is Only one That I Care the most form Disney
Same. Rogue one is the only Disney era Star Wars movie that I have enjoyed. Truth is, I'm not sure how much I would have enjoyed it though with out the Vader scenes. Vader just pulled it together for me in that movie.
Jim Casey I think it’s the last 8 minutes in general as soon as the last song from the score starts the tone and cinematography change to be more somber and it’s just a great well put together ending
Rogue One is actually the only one I don’t like and I’m not just saying that to be stubborn.
It's really eye opening when you lay out how luck was used to progress almost the entire story. I can look past the festival and Chewie's ship not being the one that Rey force lightning's to smithereens, but everything else is pretty egregious. Regarding Kylo's redemption, I completely see where you're coming from and can't really argue the lack of planning, but the moment where Han shows up got me really emotional. Not just because it's Han, but the father-son dynamic. Maybe i'm just easy to please, but that was probably my favourite part of the movie.
If I had to pick one moment of the movie that was actually well planned, it would be the Han and Kylo scene. It followed the same steps as their confrontation in TFA, but instead, Kylo turns back to the light and discards his blade. It was legitimately a well paced character building moment. Pity that it was ruined by practically every other scene in the movie.
It was good and I liked it but even that made no sense. I don’t envy them not being able to use Carrie Fisher
Great video! Hearing all these different perspectives is more entertaining to me than the films themselves. By the way, "narrative chaos" is a very apt description. I, personally would have preferred to have heard Rey own the Palpatine name in the end. That would have been gutsy. Cheers!
From what I understand they had a plan for Snoke till Rian decided make Snoke a little less of a man. I think it was a big mistake to let Rian do what ever he wanted and not follow the outline JJ had planned, regardless of if you like TLJ or not. It just made this whole sequal trilogy a mess. Sad I wanted to see more Snoke, knights of Ren, and Rey with a double edged lightsaber like in the art for Duel of the fates. Oh what might have been.
People was waiting for a Snoke vs Luke showdown and they shitted on that and killed them both off without them even meeting one another
Paul Eckert correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought they couldn’t go through with the original plan due to Carrie Fisher dying? So a change would’ve been necessary regardless.
"J.J." and "planned" in the same line. Don't make us laugh.
It was lost from the start. JJ just wanted to make a copy of the original trilogy. Snoke the new emperor, Kylo the new Vadder, Rey the new Luke.
How about an original story with original characters?
Did you really think this new trilogy was not a passing of the torch trilogy? I thought we all came into Force Awakens knowing the story was about Rey, Finn, and Poe. What made you think we were getting a Luke vs Snoke showdown?
Every question I had can be answered with another question: Who cares anymore? This movie is garbage and that's that
The Rise of Skywalker was, in my whole-hearted opinion, was a movie meant to be an apology film for Last Jedi. Where Last Jedi made risky story decisions (whether you liked those risks or not) Rise of Skywalker followed the same formula as Force Awakens to a much worse degree.
Lucasfilm heard all the negativity surrounding the risks in TLJ and decided to make TROS backtrack all those risks by using nostalgia like TFA did. But TROS failed because, where TFA used the right amount of nostalgia mixed with a fairly solid story, TROS used nothing but nostalgia, but then try to cram a story in there.
This all falls to the lack of vision the sequel trilogy had. No ones saying each director couldn’t have had their own unique vision of how to interpret the story, but if the foundation had been properly planned out the three movies would have felt more cohesive story wise.
Cool format! I come across your videos all the time and this is the first time I've seen this. Please do more!
I look forward to the time when all three of the sequel trilogy films are accepted as being badly written. At present blame is still being put on TLJ or TROS, or both.
3 turds in one big pile of crap lol
John is now acting like those of us who didn't like the last Jedi
He never said that
From Disney I really enjoyed Rogue One and the Force Awakens. I really disliked The Last Jedi and the Rise of Skywalker. What breaks my heart is that the did not plan the trilogy. I still can’t believe Disney would do that to the film series that I love the most. I was so excited when Disney bought Lucasfilm, but now I am really disappointed. Hopefully in the future they plan things ahead.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as 'luck.'" -Obi-Wan Kenobi
However
"That's not how the Force works" - Han Solo
"Ben" makes "Martha" sound like a stroke of genius.
The single greatest video you have ever done John. I tip my hat to you!
Agree 120% with all 5 points. To this day I still don't understand why this movie sucks. TFA was so good and TLJ was ok, but TROS is so frustrating to watch specially opening night. At the end you could feel the disappointment of all the fans leaving the theater, it was weird. I was going for the same experience and satisfying feelings like I had at the end of Endgame (best experience in a movie ever). To this day I wish I could watch another version of this movie where everything is more coherent and doesn't feel so underwhelming. I'm mad and I'm sad 😪
John this is perfect. Disney would be wise to take note of the problems you pointed out. So many issues that should have been obvious to the studio and all involved making the movie, long before it was ever released. Since this was going to be the final movie in this long story, the story and details should have been the most thought out and carefully planned of them all.
Kathleen screwed up big time..... it's a glorious mess
harshckuk I think KK is not creative and therefore delegated all this to JJA, who did what he always does, creating a mystery box, without to know how to resolve the mess he creates.
she did not mess up.shes doing a terrific job
@@DerTaran you should watch video of JJ Abrams at channel Patrick H Willems
@@harshckuk Yes, I liked it. I'm a subscriber of PHW's channel and I already watched it some months ago.
I truly enjoyed, and watched the hell out of, The Force Awakens! It felt like Star Wars! Sure, it was a rehash of, A New Hope 🤷♂️ but it felt like Star Wars, it felt magical, it had this power and presence to it! I watched it three times in theatres and I even watched it on New Years Eve, left the theatre at midnight and started the new year off right!
Now, The Last Jedi.... It didn't have any of that... It felt off-putting, out of place, wrong... Sure it's a beautiful movie, great cinematography by Rian. But that's it... After I watched The Last Jedi, I sat in the parking lot of my movie theatre, I'm shock! I was stunned! I felt robbed and ruined! Two years of theories and speculation, all thrown into the trash.... I sat in my car for 15 minutes, trying to wrap my head around what I had just seen...
The Rise Of Skywalker, had its enjoyable moments 🤷♂️ but it's still, meh... Too rushed, too forced, and too many moments of JJ and Disney going, "Oh damn! We gotta fix some things! We gotta do this! And do that! The fans will love it!"
But no... Sure it's enjoyable, and has its moments, but they could have ended their Skywalker Trilogy strong and beautiful! But we got what we got... 40+ years ruined, all because of money grabs and no story-flow, and too many hands in the cookie jar...
Thanks for the detailed and thematic review of the issues with TROS.
Anyone who think TLJ ruined the trilogy isn’t creative enough to realize there is an obvious place to take the story. Even with the Story Beats in TRoS. Hit me up and I’ll show you.
That’s why I never bought the whole “what was J.J’s supposed to do?” Continue telling them story. Have Kylo be the villain.
“well Rey’s parentage is resolved.”
Okay so? We knew Luke’s father was at the end of Empire. We didn’t double back and start adding a mystery again to his heritage. J.J. loves his mystery boxes
I didn't like either TLJ or TROS. They should have made lemonade with the lemons they got with the final movie.
Personally i felt like it was a damned if they did it one way, damned if they did it another kinda situation. There was always gonna be a bunch of people who were going to be unhappy about it and there was always going to be people who liked it but because of one thing or another will say they didnt like it and vice versa.
Love yah John, hope you're doing well.
You rock John! Even when you trigger people or criticize what they love, you're still respectful. Much love my friend stay safe. ✌
Love this kind of Videos. Hope you do more John.
This is so brilliant and incredibly in-depth.
Yeah the time thing i didn't realize like i did in the last jedi they had hours of fuel left but days seem to pass.
When I first saw the trailer for force awakens I knew this trilogy was doomed. Too much nostalgia and couldn’t make up its mind on what it wanted to be. Seems they just wanted that “Star Wars is back “ money rather than a cohesive story.
They should have combined the plot of the first two into one movie. No original cast members (well maybe some force ghost cameos) after the first film. The last two films would completely centered on the new characters, and NEW villians.
Rosencrantz this is not me speaking with hindsight. My old comments are on those early trailers and reviews. It’s not that I think TFA is a bad film per say. But it basically signaled to the audience that feel good nostalgia meant more than an organic story. JJ set up the problems by just making questions and cliffhangers with no long term plan
jrad410 thoughts on tlj? I like tfa didn’t like tlj and tros was meh imo
@@jrad410 the nostalgia would have be ok if it had ended about half into first movie.
Spidey’s Gaming let me say this I have no plans to watch that film again lol. There are parts I like but it’s just bleh to me
After watching it for the first time my immediate reaction was *shrug. "So that happened".* As time passes, the more i think about it, the angrier i get. Especially at how the concept of the Force Dyad panned out. Did we need to see Ben Solo rendered that useless in the end?
The fact the dyad basically only powered up the villain will NEVER make sense to me. They finally come together & then we get the most anti-climactic, depressing outcome.
John, thx for your reflection on Ep. 9. I will need to rewatch it now.