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Balanced Vs Unbalanced Regulators | Deep Dive
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
- Balanced Vs Unbalanced Regulators | Deep Dive
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Hi Everybody welcome to the Deep Dive, in this episode we’re going to look at the balancing of regulators. When you’re buying regulators you’ll often see if a regulator is balanced, but if you don’t know what it really means, then it’s not that useful to know really and then some are called over balanced. So, lets dive in and learn about balancing regulators.
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I'm old school. For piston regulators I have Scubapro MK2's and MK5's. They just keep going and I can still get parts for them. Both came out in the 1960's. For balanced diaphragm regulators I have Aqualung Conshelf's (XIV and 22) and Mares MR12II.
All just as good as current model first stages. The design of first stages has changed very little since the 1960's.
For second stages I mainly use Scubapro R109's and Hog Classic's.
I love how simple, dependable and small the MK2 is and would not hesitate to use it to 100'. Probably use more than all the others. Great for travel. Goto for bailout and stage regulators. And still being made today. So any Scubapro dealer will have service kits.
The conshelf's and MR12II's are also very small. Parts are more expensive and harder to find than the piston regulators and need to be serviced more often. Goto reg for travel, cold or dirty water.
MK5 is my goto for deep dives and when I need more hose layout flexability. Usually what I use with Double tanks.
For travel I usually take three first stages. 1 MK2 and 2 balanced diaphragm. This way I have 1- primary, 1-for a tank to sling (bail out) and a spare. I usually take three second stages as well. Amazing how often some body will want to buy a R109 from you.
Overbalanced came out because balanced diaphragm regulators could not delivery the volume of gas a balanced piston can. Just Marketing BS. For recreational diving balanced diaphragm regulators deliver more than enough air.
The importance of balancing really, really depends on which stage you are talking about! 1stages are actually "hydraulically compensated" and aim to generate an Intermediate Pressure (IP) that is a fixed value above ambient (normally around 10 bar / 147 psi greater) and not often fully "Pneumatically balanced". Balanced is more accurately used to describe the force sum across the valve orrifice as a result of the GAS pressure on either side of the valve. There is little point in having the 1st stage balanced (all 1st stages are compensated these days, ie they provide 10 bar above ambient pressure at what ever depth (ambient) you might be) because the ratio of pressures is always massively dominated by the tank pressure. For example, with what would be considered an "empty" cylinder at 50 bar, that is still 5 times the 10 bar IP setting. With a full tank, at up to 300 bar (for HP cyls) the ratio is 30 times greater! That means penumatically balancing the valve is alrgely pointless.
Pneumatically balancing the 1st stage is rendered even more pointless by pneumatically balancing the second stage, which is typical for most modern 2nd stages. Here the effective valve area is largely negated by a system that feeds IP to BOTH sides of the valve over most of the area of the valve, hence the term "pnematically balanced" This is done because for the 2nd stage, the force required to actuate the valve must remain constant if the work of breathing is to remain constant, ie the bit the diver notices! On a second stage, the force to open the valve comes directly from the divers lungs. As you breath in, the pressure in your lungs, and therefore the inside of the 2nd stage regulator falls compared to the ambient water pressure surrounding you.This pulls in the large rubber diaphram on the front of the reg, and that typically pushes on a little metal lever that directly pushes the 2nd stage valve open. If the force to open that valve changes, due to a difference in forces on the valve itself from different gas pressures, then more or less force must be provided by the diaphram, and ultimately more of less work from your lungs!
So balancing a 2nd stage both reduces the total force required (reduced breathing work) and results in less change to that force from any change in IP. This makes modern 2nd stages rather insensitive to changes in IP. You can test this yourself if you have an IP pressure gauge and adjust your 1st stage across it's range of IP adjustment. On my Apeks MTX-R and my Mk25 scubapro, i can get between about 7 and 11 bar as the range of adjustment. And with any of my balanced seconds (Apex and SP) really you can't notice any significant difference in the Work of Breathing across that range.
Thanks for clarifying this! I wanted to write the same, but i don't have the proper english vocabulary. :)
Too much marketing BS these days, but anyway, most people buy stuff anyway, without knowing even the basics how they gear works.
They see that you need overbalanced for deep dives, people consider 30m deep... but the simplest 1st stage can deliver enough gas for 2 people there. Unless you want to provide air for a large group of hyperventillating, overweight programmers, it should be fine. :D
Pressure doesn't equal volume though. So even though the supplied pressure remains the same in the first stage, the volumetric demand increases at depth. More gas required to take a full breath. So it seems that balancing/overbalancing focused on volume could still be beneficial? I mean, on a full tank, 3kpsi is probably going to move plenty of volume. But when you get down below 1kpsi, volume is going to suffer, isn't it? I'm honestly not sure how much volume a typical 'unbalanced' first stage can flow from, say 500 PSI to 0 PSI. Maybe it's not enough to matter?
Single stage,up stream,unbalanced twin hose diving regulator.What a simple uncomplicated life. Good enough for Cousteau and dived deep enough to frighten the willies out of most people today.....
I truly enjoyed my MARES Navy Abyss love the feature of being environmentally sealed with the cold water kit I never had any worries of salt water damaging my first stage or ice buildup
I just started diving Hog Zenith and D3 (sidemount), so far the deepest I've been with them is 110. Smooth breathing reg's. I have been down to 200 with my basic Aqua Lung Legends (on twin set), and they breath wonderfully down there. Both the Hog's and the Legends are everything a diver needs for deep I performance.
I have a core supreme balanced reg, and I have been fine so far, definitely recommend.
Thanks for making it simple for the rest of us!!!!!
No worries!
You are a good buddy on a good channel 👌🏽
Love my possiden regs
Is there a video about diaphragm vs. piston regulators?
Yes they did one a couple of years ago.
I dive both balanced(MK25) and unbalanced (Sherwood brut), maybe I'm not that sensitive but I can't tell a difference even at depth below 100'; unless I'm breathing heavily from effort but then I don't think it has to do with the balancing but more to do with the bigger airflow afforded by the MK25 by design..
RE: Overbalancing. Really this is mostly marketing Bolleux on modern regs! The total flow rate capability of the air supply system is simply set by the total delta P (tank pressure minus ambient (ie water) pressure and the size of the valve orrifii in the system. More deltaP or larger holes = more flow. Increasing the IP with depth (overbalancing or more accurately, over-compensating) simply means that for any given flow rate the 2nd stage valve orrifice is open by a ratiometrically smaller amount. But because work done is force x distance, whilst the valve is having to be opened less far, it requires more force to do so, so the total WOB remains broadly constant! Back in the day, with unbalanced seconds, they had to use small valve orrfii to keep the maximum valve actuation force down to keep the WOB down (being unbalanced the IP pressure driven valve force was reacted only into a fixed spring, and that needed to be strong enough to prevent freeflow, ie the valve being blown open by the IP). And a small orrfii means a lower maximum flow rate (for any given IP) so here, as you went deeper, there was a trade off to supplying the diver with more air (volume of air delievered of course increases proportionally with depth for any given lung tidal volume being exhanged) but at the expense of a high WOB. Most divers of course were happier having enough air, even if they had to work a bit harder to get it! Today with pneumatically balanced 2nds, really none of that has much meaning, and you can pretty much make a 2nd stage with any sized orrifice you want (and this is also why modern 2nds can use much smaller diaphrams than the old 2nds used to have,meaning much more compact units)
Can you do more videos discussing DUI dry suits
My first ever reg was some 2nd hand La Spirotechnique / Aqualung thing from the 80s. Spiro/Aqualung are rightfully a legend, but in the 80s they seemed to make a lot of duds, and this was definitely one of them. I moved to an old but brilliant Scubapro 108 and the difference was night and day. Now I have a Mares Abyss which is a dream. It's always worth investing in decent regulators - it's literally the thing that's keep you alive, and you can't relax if you can't breathe freely. Balanced is the way to go. Unbalanced is a false economy, especially on a pony/bailout. Any day you are reaching for a pony / bailout bottle is a day when you really, REALLY want plenty of gas and most definitely don't want to be fighting your equipment for it.
I’m torn between buying the cf200 or the flx xtreme I don’t wanna buy a stock sized suit as I’m oddly sized I’m EXTREMELY skinny I only weigh 150 soaking wet in all my dive gear and I’ve got a lanky torso so I think I’d be best off with a custom sized suit what do you think? I was looking at the Cortez and Yukon aswell (mainly because the price is nice😅) I really don’t know what way to go on this
XTX 200 🤙🏼
Stores selling things sometimes imply that unbalanced regulators are suitable for only shallow dives? This is not true? All regulators compensate for depth in the same way. I looked it up LOL. Air thing may be over stated for selling purposes? 2cents
At the depths where overbalancing would be needed you really should be diving CCR or helium which makes the point moot IMO. But outside of deco bottles where is no reason to buy an unbalanced reg, the savings when buying the cheap unbalanced regs is very minor and not worth it.
Frankly, there are fringe reasons to have unbalanced regulators. Personally, I used to do competitive scuba diving when I was younger and I hated balanced first stages. Using an unbalanced first stage, I can monitor my gas consumption even without an spg. Very helpful if you are in a competition where you don't have a lot of gas reserves. It does require years of experience with your personal regulator though. Similarly, field repair is much easier with an unbalanced regulator.
Now, I am fully aware that both of these reasons are against everything that is taught in recreational diving. I don't advocate for people to dive without spg or do maintain their equipment without training. But if you are qualified to service your regulator and you are diving in fringe application areas, unbalanced regs can be an advantage. It's not just a money issue.
Balanced for primary, unbalanced for deco tank.
Scubapro MK10+156 for life. :D
Excellent Choice!
Thanks I learned a lot
Your very welcome Mark! How are you doing?
@@simplyscuba
Doing great
Making videos and loving life!
Is there a situation where you would not want to use overbalanced? Anyone know?
Just not needed. Marketing BS
Over balance I love Aqualung Leg3nd Elite.
Over balance regulator.... its like saying a skydiver will fall faster by adding weight lol , Im gonna make a new brand and sell HYPER BALANCED REGULATORS !!! seems to be quite a big market for such a product .
Are all DIN first stages balanced?
doesn’t have anything do to if the reg is din or yoke
Second!