Comparing Starrett, PEC, and Swanson Combination Squares! Are Cheaper Squares Sufficient?
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- čas přidán 8. 02. 2022
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Feature Tool
6" Starrett Combination Square
You don't buy a Starrett for how square it is today. You buy one for how square it is in 10-20 years down the road.
good point!
Comment of the week goes to Josh!
Very true
Bingo ! If I have to bet my ass on it , it will be the best !
Your on the money Josh
I've determined I like the machinest squares better such as Kinex
Another reason to get a Starrett is that when you lock it down, it stays locked. Almost every other box store square loosens up, even after a hard tightening. I always wiggle the blade after I tighten it. Never had to do re tighten the Starrett. That's a Godsend for sure.
I bought my Starret combo Square in 1983 for $40. I soon thereafter bought the protractor and center head. Today I went to Starret's site to find the three piece set + ruler goes for $288 ! I have just thoroughly cleaned and oiled all the pieces. I have picked up that Combo Square tens of thousands of times and it always felt good to use the best.
There is something different about using a quality tool vs, "the old run of the mill" tools!
I bought them all around the same time 4" 6" 12" w/ 24" & 36" blades, with all center heads and protractor.. I refused to lower myself to buying Mitatoyo stuff like the other people did All still in the RED boxes too.. A couple years back I checked the new price on my 36" blade,, The first thing I saw was $600.00 for just the blade...
I own several Starrett combination squares ( 4”, 6” , and 12” ) . I’m a big fan of getting layouts accurate ! I have a Mititoyo for home use !
what about the spirit level functions - are they square when you finish your modifications? Nice video, BTW!
Just depends on how accurate the spirit level is from the factory, the only want you can adjust the spirit level is to level the base of the square.
The Milwaukee is made under contract ( to a price point ) in china.
What kind of accuracy are you expecting?
If you can't afford a Starrett, it's perfectly okay to buy a Brown & Sharpe, Mitutoyo, Lufkin, etc.
PEC makes some really good combination squares that I think are comparable to starrett, and they are about $30 cheaper and are made in the good ol' USA!
You might be able to square the 90 on a less expensive square, but the 45-degree will be harder to verify and fix. I used an inexpensive 45 from a combo square to set up my miter saw, jointer and band saw with it and couldn't figure out why my miters were all just a bit off - I blamed myself, the saws, everything but the real cause - a bad 45 on the combo.
You need a verified straight edge, 90 and 45 degree standard that you can TRUST to set up and verify all your other tools, or you'll keep running into (often compounded) errors and it will drive you nuts. (Tip - PEC has tools with cosmetic blems (that do NOT affect accuracy) for significantly less $ on their website).
When truing up my saws and tools, I always check with more than 1 square. However prior to that, I always check my squares for accuracy prior to using them on anything.
Buy nice or buy twice!
I came to this video after getting frustrated trueing up my miter saw blade up vertical. I still haven't even gotten to the fence or cut into my zero clearance insert. My square is a Starrett 6 inch combo. Ive had it for a year and count on it. But now I'm wondering if it's out of square or if the blade is not truly flat on the thin edge. After tons of adjustments all day, it got dark and so I held my cuts with the square up to my light and not the sky. Looks like my cuts are either cutting more in the middle of an up to down cut on a long side of a Tubafour or my blade of my square is curved. I spent all day and it's still in my shop in pieces. I'm beat. I didn't know about the taking material if those 2 edges. That would be last. Guess I just need to get my straight board out and figure what the hell is going on. The square and your pencil come first. I got the best square I could afford and a 5mm pencil. I feel wrecked, beat and discouraged. I typed this up for someone who ends up in my boat. Rule number 1: Assume nothing! 2: check, recheck, try VARIOUS tests. 3 don't move on untill you know truth. FYI, I also sanded a 45 on my corners with a 220 sanding sponge in order to not introduce error because of any tear out. Fyi Im using a brand new 60 tooth diablo blade and gave it several visual test on it's trueness. Also used a digital angle finder and all the numbers are different. Driving me nuts! My table shows .00 on left and .01 on right. Also the non rotating edges of my saw are both low by the thickness of painters tape. I just keep up with it and it's been fine. I might end up building a latter all crooked so I can go to the roof and jump. I'll probably miss the ground with my luck! Anyone else have this experience? Oh yeah, it's a Ridgid 10 inch miter.
I wouldn’t beat yourself up to much trying to true up your miter saw, I can tell you from experience, the base of the miter saw isn’t completely flat and the fence on either side isn’t going to be completely square, bet you can do is make sure one side of your fence is square and don’t worry about the other side, same is true with the base
going to make a completely new fence with stacked plywood and slide the block true on my table saw. On the deck, ive added painters tape to the sides since the middle is high.
I've had similar struggles with the miter saw (12" Dewalt). I got to the point where I am blaming a small amount of run-out (wobble) in the arbor. THAT I don't think is fixable. So I turned to the shooting board for absolute perfection.
To tune a miter saw use a jointed 2 x 4. Make the cut, flip one of the pieces and press both against the fence. Do the cut ends fit together perfectly? (do same for the other axis - up and down)
@@jonhuus1925 yep.i just learned about runout. Also hear that as the blade spins, the weight of the teeth will pull on the blade and straighten it some. The arbor an be out and so can the blade. There is a way to mark the blade and measure square in the " best" place but I think measuring the results of the cut is more accurate since and wobble is going to be translated to the wood and that cut is the real point of accuracy to measure.
There is no pro to using zinc. It’s a soft head that will fail to lock with repeated use.
Thanks for the video. Couple things I've run into I think you should mention tho with cheap squares.
You cant just do the squaring trick with one side, i have a stanley cheapy that is perfect on putside edge and way off on the inside. If I'd adjusted it based on one I'd never have learned that the error is actually from the ruler which was cut at and angle. And I'd have killed my totally fine square head.
Also with the more expensive ones the blade locks totally parallel, and the marking are far more accurate. So if your doing carpentry wtf it dont matter but with small finicky finish stuff or for me picture framing where a mm off equals a visible error than it really does matter
Are cheaper squares sufficient? Yes. It is totally subjective, but my starrett square _feels_ so much nicer to use than the cheap ones. The ruler feels much nicer and the markings are easier to read.
It seems kind of pointless to compare any combo square with a speed square, which is a tool for laying out rafters and other uses in rough carpentry. The so-called “DIYer” may care about the versatility of a tool, but for professionals the right tool is the one that is best suited to the specific work being done. I’m not going to frame a roof using a combo square. I’m not going to lay-out dovetails using a speed square.
Right on
Forget the line and flip technique. If you are serious about your craft you must have a square in your shop that you trust, engineers squares are way more accurate than even your premium Starrett, this square has no other purpose than to check your working tools. Any combination square can be trued in minutes with a needle file as demonstrated. The only thing you sometimes don't get with the cheaper end of the market is how easily and solidly they lock. Look for brass locking nut and have a play before you pay.
One thing you forgot to mention is removing this through the head you should always Force the locknut forward with your thumb so you're not rubbing against the nub inside under pressure as soon as that now wears it's going out of square I always keep a light wipe of camellia oil on my tool and I mean light one or two drops an old t-shirt is all you need
Im 73 now and ALL my squares are Starrett. They are by far more accurate and reliable than any other brand I have bought. I have a t square that is over 100yrs old and has been used so much the corners are not really square any more. They ALL fit inside of each other with NO gaps anywhere. Squares are the ONE tool you should spend what you can afford . You will use a good one for your lifetime so its a one time buy. Sold all my cheap squares. The advantages to quality tools are comfort of use, accuracy, reliability along with resale value. Should you not require any of your tools, quality is REAL easy to sell to someone else. FWIW I NEVER check my Starrett tools any more. Another advantage to quality tools is expansion. My 12in combination square will take up to a 72in rule. I have a 24in for it that on occasion comes in REAL handy. There will be a lineup to buy all these tools when I am gone for sure. They live a VERY long time.
The Starrett you have is forged steel NOT cast iron
Thanks for the info!
Starrett cast iron squares have a cross hatch pattern on the body.
And it’s made in china believe me I work there
7 minutes in and still no info yet.. Thing 1,, The wood being used to reference is not adequate,, you could not have chosen a worse piece.. It you want to be proper,, use machined metal.. 9 minutes and WRONG about the fix,, you created a very tiny spot that the blade is riding on, which will wear real fast, NOT all are cast iron,, many are forged and hardened steel.. DO NOT THINK YOU CAN HAND FILE A PEFERCTLY FLAT surface which is imperative to the accuracy.... WHOLE LOT OF BAD ADVICE HERE
Speed squares are great for building hog pens. Don't like 'em.
I do framing and finish work so I use and rely on both.