Buy This, Not That | Measuring & Marking
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
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Our previous Buy This Not That video about drill bits ( • Buy This, Not That | D... ) went over pretty well and many folks asked me to do another one. So I gave it some thought and came up with a list of measuring and marking devices that I think you should buy as well as the ones I think you should avoid.
Links You'll Probably Want:
6' Tape Measure - amzn.to/3kpOw8r
Machinist Squares - amzn.to/3gjBIit
12" Adjustable Square - amzn.to/3mj5ec6
Bevel Gauge - amzn.to/3yXE9yx
Protractor - amzn.to/3xZgkoF
Single Bevel Marking Knife - amzn.to/3iZIFXz
Blade Cutting/Marking Gauge - www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/...
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0:00 Introduction
0:30 Measuring Tapes
1:19 Squares
1:56 Rulers
3:02 Angles
3:41 Pencils
4:49 Marking Knives
7:04 Marking Gauges - Jak na to + styl
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Tricky Marc with the later release time
@@johndecker2799 lol had a puppy at the vet with raging diarrhea. Her fault. :)
@@woodwhisperer It always sucks to have raging diarrhea right when you need to take your pet to the vet.
@@froggore52 I wish I could have got here earlier and made that joke before you
So I just signed up for something that I really don’t know what I’m getting? Lol. Good video and great content as always!
Seriously, I hope this becomes a whole series. I just purchased a Brad point bit set and forstner bit set because of your other video
Good call!
Once you go brad, you never, ever go back...
Please make more of these! I'm by no means a noob, but I still learn when you show things like this.
Mark, you have so many great tips here! I would add two refinements.
First, buy one 6-inch machinist square from Products Engineering Corporation (PEC), an American company. It is critical to have at least one machinist square you can trust. The first one I bought was Chinese made and was NOT square. The PEC square costs around $30 and is manufactured with a tolerance of 0.0006" (1/5 of the diameter of an average human hair).
Second, get a "lefty/righty" tape measure. I bought one from FastCap. It is longer than I'd like (16 ft), but the ability to easily read from left to right or right to left is a game changer. Costs about $10.
I use the construction pencil to draw light lines on surfaces before sanding or jointing / planning. The mechanical pencil leds tend to break especially when the surfaces are rough
I use a construction pencil for jointing and planing and a standard #2 for sanding. I find the lines from the construction pencil can be too dark for sanding.
I agree with both of you. I use a .7mm mechanical pencil. Why: Though Marc recommended .5, I've found that even the fresh-sawn texture of wood grain will tend to snap off your point... so I just have a herd of .7mm in my immediate shop drawer, with extra leads. They hold up to ripple-y wood surfaces or times when you're in a hurry to mark something (ex.: I'm clamping this crap square with my damn hand), and just need where an edge falls.. without destroying the point.
I use a pencil MIRADO(papermate) 2.5 with reinforced lead, I can make 1mm tip(or less) and it don't break it also work to carve marks in soft wood:
czcams.com/video/APFizRophtQ/video.html
I use a lead holder. I can put an extremely fine point on it, but it's sturdy enough to not break.
I love my 9' Dewalt tape measure, pocket clip and magnet already included.
Me too….I have two of them….they are great!
An extra marking pencil I use is a quilter's mechanical pencil with a white 0.9mm lead. Very good for marking lines on dark coloured woods
All good tips. I wish you had been here 40 years ago. It might have kept me from buying all the tools you recommend against. Hopefully your tips will help some newbie save a few bucks. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.
Would have loved this a few years ago when I started. So many tools purchased and so much frustration due to those tools
The tool in my shop that has cut me more often than any other one is my marking gauge--that little circle is sharp!! But I do love it....
My absolute favorite tape measure is the 12ft Komelon from Lowe's. It costs about 4.50 and is self locking. I've bought 6 of them to keep around the house and shop. It's nice having more than the 6ft you mentioned since a lot of wood is 8+ft and it's still very light weight
That's what I use for everything in the shop. It gets to where the normal ones are a pain to use after using the self locks.
I'm left handed so I use the fastcap green dual marking tape, it's has the marks running on both sides of the tape so I can use it "backwards" it was a complete game changer for me. As far as a ruler I use the woodpecker paolini pocket ruler the 6" I use it more than any other tool in my arsenal of tools
Cool kids club hell yeah
I love my Bridge City tri square with the anodized aluminum and imperial scaling. it's a pleasure to use, especially since I use it all the time.
Your shop tools videos are some of my favourites. Learning about fine tuning jointers and band saws were particular highlights.
Thank you very much!
Always enjoy your videos... and always learn something! One "tidbit" I picked up from a woodworker I respect a lot is to use blue "lead" in my .5mm mechanical pencil. Shows up a lot better on darker woods.
One-year-experience woodworker here. Watched the whole video, all hints are exactly inline with my understanding and practices.
I make my living as a woodworker, great advice, I use my adjustable squares and machinist squares more than anything else, and only a tape when measuring longer than 24”.
I like the small tape measures, and as they usually have a key ring, i attach a small carabiner clip to it and clip it to my belt loop or apron so it's always available in my workshop class.
Great tips Mark. Being new to wood working a lot of these were things that I didn't know or think about. While I know that I need something to measure, mark, or get repeatable results. Your advice was appreciated in not only telling what to get but why you should get it based on your application. Keep up the good work and keep the tips coming.
I wanted to say I appreciate your logic on tool needs. Like a lot of people, I watch loads of woodworking videos and I pay attention to the tools they use.... brands, styles etc. I'm not rich but I have to agree paying more for a better tool in lots of cases is worth it in the long run, especially with mechanical tools like drills, nailers etc. Your comment on the smaller tape measures was a great one. I to have a 25 foot tape that I used to use all the time. But over time, I found that the little end piece on the tip of the tape moves, some more than others, and it introduces error in my cuts. You wouldn't think it would matter. I surely didn't. But I kept running into joints that had too much gap or way too tight a fit. My father was a brick layer and he used the folding rulers. Since I've started using them, my errors have almost disappeared. Now it's just down to my blind eyes and slippery glasses when trying to find that 5/16's mark! I've not used my tape since. Just thot I'd mention that.
Great video tho! I've been watching them. Keep it up. I appreciate the logic! (Note: I also liked the Millennium Falcon with the Enterprise inlay on your wall. That's pretty sweet! )
I agree with all points, my trouble with the tape measures is that I do lose the small ones and end up using the big ones until I get more small ones. I keep the carpenters pencils around for doing the rough break down of material particularly if the wood is still rough from the sawmill. Great video, keep them coming
I recently bought a six inch rule. It fits in my pocket and now in addition to my Pentel mechanic pencil, I use it all the time.
I worked as a machinist many years ago, always had a 6" rule in my apron pocket, but it shrank over time, just like my clothes did. Army field jacket issued in 1973 won't even close now. I use a high vis 12' tape with markings on the graduations (1/4, 1/8, etc) for easy reading.
Marc, the machinist square recommendation is the one thing I wish I had heard when I first started woodworking. Kinex squares have saved me sooooo many headaches that I had with my Irwin Carpenter's square, tri-square, and combo square....and was cheaper than all of those combined.
PaperMate SharpWriter Thank-you Adam Savage I started using these and never looked back!
I'm glad I saw this video. I was just looking at marking knives and thought the "spear point" looked pretty cool. "Cool looking" and functional are not always synonymous, I see. Thanks for pointing (haha) out the single bevel advantage.
I love those keychain tapes! My favorite is the 9 feet Dewalt with the magnet
Mark your recommendations are right on. I've addopeted almost all of these over the years. Dewalt makes a 9' tape measure that has a belt clip and a magnet built into it. I've found them to highly accurate and repeatable between tapes. I probably have 8 of them. Thanks so much for all you do for the woodworking community.
I switched to the Dewalt tapes 2 years ago and wouldn't use anything else now.
the finer points of measuring & marking. as a novice i would not have known these finer points. please continue with this series.
I couldn't imagine working without a Speed Square. It's the most used item I have. The speed and versatility is, IMHO unmatched. But I really like listening to alternate views. This focused look at one aspect is ideal. Thank you.
I have multiple speed squares that I use often, my newest additions are the Milwaukee brands from the big orange store. I purchased the 6” and the 4”. They are nice light machined edges and such, so I put them against each other and they do not match. This really stinks. But they are close if that is good enough for your project.
@@jandrgarage3107 i had the same problem. I used my machinist and try squares to true up the one that was off a bit. Ruins the finish in spots, but my squares are now much squarer.
Fundamentals are very important. Accurate measurements are crucial to fine woodworking. Like your recommendations! Best advice after correct measurements is “leave the line” when cutting!
I like this series of videos. Hope you continue them.
Hi Marc great video especially for newcomers to woodworking
Nice review Marc, thanks ! I also like an inside reading folding rule (Wiha, Hultafors) besides the tape meas. I agree, 6' or 8' tape is a great size in the shop. Cheers ...
Definitely good things to know. The better the tools, the better the results.
Glad to see I'm not alone. Love my little Milwaukee inch/metric tape for the shop. It seems they stopped making mine in favor of the 6' model. Glad I bought a backup while I could. Mine is a 10ft/3meter and even has an LED flashlight (and magnet) built in I have found very useful at times.
As for the bevel gauge I use that to repeat/copy angles often. I ended up getting the cheap General Tools digital one and it is reasonably accurate. I like the digital aspect to log numbers and notes and if I found a higher quality digital, I might get one. However, this one has been doing well for about 15 years and for $32, a good value proposition :)
Combo squares are ok, I find them useful for construction. For finer woodworking, the Woodpecker Paolini is my go to and I have 2. Plus my Mirock square is great for scribing distance lines and great price.
All good advice, I think, and all tools that I use regularly in my shop.
Right on!
Very informative bud, I made my last marking knife with a double bevel. My next will be single.. thanks.
Good information. I hadn't thought about the tape measure before, I have been using a 25ft one and it is a little heavy in my apron pocket, I will probably be looking for some cheap shorter tapes.
In my shop apron I carry three marking devices: a single bevel marking knife; a mechanical pencil and a lead holder with a 5.6 mm lead. I use the marking knife to mark a line when I will saw or chisel as the kerf positions the blade. I use the mechanical pencil to mark layout lines for my power saws (table or miter). I use the lead holder for marking rough lumber, marking parts ( back versus front) or orientation (arrow pointing up). The nice thing about the lead holder is that unlike a traditional wood pencil, it does not break will sitting in the pocket of my apron.
I've only been woodworking about year, however I have multiple tapes. I also have an adjustable rule/square as well as a speed square and a carpenters square.
I do use "contruction" pencils but will get a mechanical one.
But I also have a wheel marking gauge.
So it looks like I'm heading in the correct direction.
I already had brad and forstner bits.
i think the biggest reason i use a 25' tape is that the tape is wide and stiff. Those 8 and 12 footer tend to be really floppy.
Get a Starrett. There may be others that are good, but that is the one I have. It works. It's well made, the price won't hurt you, and it will probably last as long as you will.
Two things here, 25' on sale are as little as $3.99, so essentially disposable. Try a folding rule. You might just be surprised how versatile they are.
Love this series. Never really though about how much of a waste it is to have a 25’ tape measure in the shop. I will say, I do love my speed square! Lol…
Would love to see a video on hand planes that would be helpful for beginning wood workers to have.
I was taught the 'sharp pointy' marking gauges are for end-grain and along the grain (such as tenon thickness) whereas the cutter style is to sever across the grain (such as shoulder marking). Having separate ones may not be necessary though.
Good points especially on the tape measures. To that point I do seem to find myself going to may 6" metal ruler more than my 12 incher from the combination square, especially around the table saw. Must just be a matter of habit.
Thanks for the video I like the points about the marking knife I hadn't thought of that double-sided bevel being a detriment, good tip.
Nice thing about the marking knife is a kit is like 10 bucks, then you make your own scales. It’s a nice beginner project and tool all in one! I actually made my first one a couple months ago, and I’m far from a beginner, but I wish I’d done it sooner!
These basics are important. Thank you.
Just great as always Marc. Would love to see more like this.
I'm definately a mechanical pencil guy, but the single bevel blade is EXCELLENT info! Thanks Marc!
Great video. Learned so much in such a short amount of time. Thank you.
Not all videos are created equal. This one is great.
Love the tips. One I heard about the carpenters pencil is the side is 1/4” thick and 1/2 “ wide. What happened is some easy measures for construction. I used them in the past but now use the mechanical pencil just not as fancy as yours (yet).
I've never seen a carpenter's pencil with either of those dimensions, FWIW, and I've had dozens.
Mechanical pencils are a great way to go! .9mm in the field, .7mm in the shop!
I'm just a hobbyist at wood working, but I've found carpenter pencil just too useful not to have around. I use it mainly for laying out rough cut lines, especially for curves as it stands out nicely. Also, its dimensions make them a convenient stand off when attaching a drawer face. I simply set a drawer on 4 of them and the set the bottom of the drawer face flush with my bench, clamp and screw.
Marc, great video, lots of good tips and points. When it comes to layout and marking the Veritas Sliding Square is the most useful tool in my shop. The large reference surface is great for keeping things square and tight, being able to measure length and width while in the same location is great for hole layout or marking tenons. All rule markings go right to the edge of the steel which is very helpful.
I hadn't considered using a smaller tape measure but that makes great sense too. Why carry a 26' model when you use the first 8' 99% of the time. Keep up the great work.
The marking knife info was helpful. Never thought about that. Definitely going to get a a knife with one beveled side.
You can certainly still use a double beveled version but you should try to angle it slightly to offset the bevel and get it flush against your guide. But if you have the option, just go for the single bevel.
I really enjoy your videos and all the fun pop culture items in your shop. Thank you for sharing!
FastCap 16 foot tapes are my go-to for in the shop. Cheap, accurate, available in metric, and a built in pencil sharpener.
Marc, great video tutorial. Some thoughts:
- Do a short on making sure your measuring devices all are measuring true among the herd (tape, square, ruler, etc.)
- I like the marking knife part... I think a marking knife is an mid-advanced tool, so maybe do a longer vid on those separately
- I use my Stanley tape measure all the time - it's 25' - mainly because I know that 1" on it is EXACTLY one inch on everything else I use
- Huge, huge props on the machinist's square, but I recommend a ruled one... maybe not a Starrett, you know... my woodworking improved exponentially once a got a good machinist's square with graduations... seriously freaking amazing
Thanks for the great video! I'm a fan!
For tape measures I’d recommend using a Flatback Tape Measure they lay flat on the lumber and have a mat finish you can write on.
I remove the clips from mine, even the long ones, when I am doing carpentry. I use the Fastcap metric in the woodshop.
Single vs Double bevel knife grinds track differently. A double will cut straighter as the material force is equal on both sides of the blade. With a single bevel the bevel side will push into the flat side direction as it cuts through material. If you are using a sturdy guide and not cutting in deep you may never notice on scoring a line in wood.
I never free-hand a knife cut so that explains why I’ve never encountered that issue. 😊
Also not all rulers and tapes are the same. Make sure your markings all line up with each other... This way if you switch to a different measurement tool, the distance you measure is the same. I found this out with a cheap combo square ruler I had had inch marks that were a 16th off from my tape measure.
I second this!! Those cheaper tape measures are not always accurate. I have found Tajima to make a highly accurate tape.
This comment! Left one for Marc above to this line of thought.
FYI there is a German industrial norm for the squareness ( DIN 875 which has different suffixes, i.e. 00, 0, 1 and 2) which is a pretty good indicator whether a square is really square.
I've converted to 12' tapes and never looking back. Sure, every once in while I need the 25' - more to span across something - but the svelte tape is the way to go!
The fatmax 6' is FANTASTIC. It's all I use in my shop
Good tips for the beginner. I’d like to add that when buying a wheel marking gauge, especially for a beginner, I feel it’s important to buy one where the screw that secures the cutterhead is recessed below the cutterhead. There’s some cheap ones out there that are proud of the cutter that create and inaccurate measurement if you’re using your material to set the gauge.
I like the new tips and tricks videos. Kinda like a Stumpy series. Never know when you may pick up a good idea or easier method to woodworking.
For some reason I was obsessed with getting a hook ruler a while ago, thinking it was the next level up from a regular ruler but I find myself just going back to that combination square 🤣 ah oh well.
Another comment, if you get a wheel marking gauge, see if you can get one where the screw holding the blade is countersunk into the end. Then you can set the depth against something flat. Nice little extra touch.
I struggle w mechanical pencils, so I opt for really nice lead pencils like the legendary Blackwing. Replaceable erasers and very nice lead that doesn't break like cheap pencils.
I tend to be heavy handed and also lose pencils all the time. Now i just buy n use a bunch of pens for marking.
@@nurabdul1436 can work in the right context! Can't erase booboos though
Incra precision marking t-rulers are awesome for the price. uses .5mm lead to mark on hose. Mechanical i converted to started with 1.8m flat lead i love those cheap on amazon and a .9mm metal mechanical . .7 and .5 lead break to easy on wood. Great video
Literally just ordered those mechanical pencils yesterday and got them today they are awesome.
They really are. Seems silly to get excited about a mechanical pencil but those things are great.
I'm a carpenter and always sharpen my pencils with a single bevel. It'll make a finer line than a .5 mm lead. On smooth wood that you typically mark in woodworking the fine edge lasts quite a while.
Great information. Thanks. Hope you do more of these.
Great video and very helpful information! Thank you very much for your help
I really like the pica pencils. They have a sharpener built in and you can sharpen down to 0.5mm although it doesn't stay that way. It has its own housing which fits perfectly into a woodwork apron pocket and it feels nice in the hand due to its light weight. I do use mechanical pencils but its pica I go to first
Love seeing your baby face again!! Excellent vid!!
Great video Marc. Thank you.
That PARTICULAR TYPE of mechanical pencil is also AMAZING. It is retractable - the entire head retracts into the body, which protects the tiny exposed tip of lead when you're not using it, which in turn will save you a ton of replacement leads over the life of the pencil by avoiding a lot of breakage.
Just curious, would that pencil have a brand name? I looked a bit and couldn't find it. Sounds interesting.
"double bevel" or "single bevel" in the knife industry generally these are referred to as "chisel ground" (one edge) and " bevel Ground" (both sides)
I've used a LOT of tapes over the years and I've absolutely settled on the Milwaukee tapes, big or small, the coating on the blade is unlike any other and I've found they last much longer. I've snapped or worn out so many fatmax tapes
I agree- tho their recent versions have declined a bit in quality. I also like Lufkin- sl better standout lengths, well built, but Milwaukee’s return mechanism is very smooth and controlled. Fat max is simply over rated- its a good tape but hardly “the best”
Milwaukee tape are garbage. Komelon all day
@@galvanizedgnome garbage is a bit far mate, I've used more brands of tapes than I can remember, professionally for over 20 years now and can tell you that they aren't 'garbage' at all. Sure there are better but you'll be paying for it. For a sub £25 tape, they are by far one of the best imo
Related to what you're saying here--one of the most accurate (for the money) squares I have is the crummy plastic speed square from the Big Box store. It's dead-on square (and if it wasn't I'd plane a shaving or two off one edge. But it's amazingly square. Not worried if I drop it, mark it up with a marker, or bang it around a bit. And it's blaze-orange, so even if I wanted to lose it I couldn't.
I like to use Drafting Pencils, Lead is Thicker so doesnt snap easy, and can be sharpened down to nice point easy as well
I always snap the mechanical pencil leads on rough surfaces, but I have one now, that I really enjoy. It is also a mechanical pencil, but with a large diameter graphite:
It's called Pica-Dry longlife automatic pencil. The sheath comes with a sharpener that renders a fine, but visible line.
I love the little stanley. I have the metric 2m versions.
Thank you. I really appreciate this!!
Hey Marc,
Another good video. Love the he-man t-shirt.
I was always taught that a rule is more accurate than a ruler. In England a rule is always metal and measurements start from the edge of the metal. A ruler in whatever material it is made from generally starts a few mm in.
I hope this doesn’t come across condescending in anyway, it certainly isn’t meant to.
Thanks for not quitting and goooooo rockler! Lol
That makes sense. Though you will find “rulers” both with and without gaps. But I agree, if you buy something explicitly labeled as a “rule” you’re much more likely to get the gapless variety.
Really good. Holy crap have I been thinking that same thought for 11-some years? Yep. Really good. Again. Thanks!
Great information, Thank You Marc
I'd recommend checking out a Westcott graph ruler made out of acrylic, it's seriously much better than any other ruler I've ever used for layout. It has markings all the way to the end, works either longways or across the width, is easy to read, and you can reference off of previous marks because it's transparent. Of course it can be cut since it's plastic, but you just have to be careful. Also the big advantage of carpenter's pencils I've found is their ability to continue to make consistent, narrow lines when working with rough stock. A lot of people sharpen them to a point instead of a wedge, but when you sharpen them to a wedge, they last an extremely long time between sharpenings. I typically use them when rough cutting rough sawn pieces since it makes my life easier and waste less material when I can mill multiple small pieces instead of one huge piece.
Excellent guidance and advice! Thanks.
As a former sheet metal worker, I love my Mitutoyo three piece set of combination square, protractor and centre finder. I use the combination square for most of my marking out, the protractor when I'm dealing with angles other than 90 or 46 degrees, and the center finder only occasionally. I disagree about using the ruler by itself though, they're quite thick which means the markings are quite a way of the wood and doesn't make for accurate measurements. The markings are intended to measure against the tool edge, which they work well for. There are plenty of thin stainless steel rulers available for not much money that don't have that annoying extra length at the end before the zero mark, and these will be much better to use than the rule from a combination square.
Hands down the best tape measure ever made is the Stanley Classic 25', a point that can't be argued. And the best pencil to use for trim is the old standby #2 Eberhard Faber, the Ticonderoga, or other wood cored 6-sided pencil with eraser.
I still use my bevel angle tool from time to time
Nice review, Marc~! As for marking gauges, I've gotten to where only use a wheel-type gauge. The cutter on the other style (block & beam?) is hidden under the beam when striking a line, so if you're cutting up to a certain mark, it's not as easy to see. Just my preference... Thanks~!
Great explanations!
I really enjoy these videos!
best thing i have bought recently is a little cheap tape measure! put a magnet on it and it stays on my shorts so its always there when i need a measure. it gets used far more often then my 5m or 8m tapes
Another great video and best t-shirt so far. Might want to caution people about BORG combination squares. or at least recommend they take their engineer square with them to make sure what they buy is actually square. (don't ask how I learned that lesson).
How did you learn that lesson?
Dewalt has a mini one too with an already mounted magnet.
I usually keep it on tools when in use or on the fridge.
Having the magnet already attached would be great. Mine fall off occasionally.
Spot on everywhere but the marking gauge section, which conflates two types of marking gauges. Cutting gauges, like the ones you showed, are absolutely right for marking face grain. But scratch gauges aren't an alternative tool for doing that task; they're for something else. They're for marking with the grain and for marking end grain. I think most folks have both types of gauges and use each for the task to which it's suited.
Thanks for the video!