Shapeshifting Borderline, Morphing Narcissist: Identity Disturbance (Conference)
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2022
- Video presentation for the 2nd International Conference on Psychology and Mental Health, Paris, November 2022 (www.mentalhealth.scientexconf...)
Types of identity disturbance or diffusion in Borderline and Narcissistic patients: Cyclical, Allotropic, Object-related.
Autobiographical memory (narrative), dissociation, and core identity.
Splitting and other primitive defenses and their role in identity disturbance.
LITERATURE
1. Deutsch H. Some forms of emotional disturbance and their relationship to schizophrenia. Psychoanal Q. 1942;11:301-321.
2. Autobiographical memories, identity disturbance and brain functioning in patients with borderline personality disorder: An fMRI study
Paola Bozzatello, Rosalba Morese, Maria Consuelo, Valentin Paola Roccae, Francesca Boscob, Silvio Bellinoa
Heliyon, Volume 5, Issue 3, March 2019
3. Psychiatry Research, Volume 271, January 2019, Pages 76-82
Facets of identity disturbance reported by patients with borderline personality disorder and personality-disordered comparison subjects over 20 years of prospective follow-up
Mohammad A.Gada, Hannah E.Pucker, Katherine E.Hein, Christina M.Temes, Frances R.Frankenburg, Garrett M.Fitzmaurice, Mary C.Zanariniac
4. Identity Disturbance, Feelings of Emptiness, and the Boundaries of the Schizophrenia Spectrum
Maja Zandersen, Josef Parnas
Schizophrenia Bulletin, Volume 45, Issue 1, January 2019, Pages 106-113, doi.org/10.1093/schbul/sbx183
5. Journal of Personality DisordersVol. 35, No. Supplement B
At the Junction of Clinical and Developmental Science: Associations of Borderline Identity Disturbance Symptoms With Identity Formation Processes in Adolescence
Shawna Mastro Campbell, Melanie Zimmer-Gembeck and Amanda Duffy
Published Online:June 2021 doi.org/10.1521/pedi_2020_34_484
Find and Buy MOST of my BOOKS and eBOOKS in my Amazon Store: www.amazon.com/stores/page/60...
What a privilege to be able to see your lectures
I have told therapists for years that I feel like a chameleon! No one even picked up on what you are saying. First time in 30 yrs I’ve heard this. And exactly what I was trying to describe. Thank you!!
As the "empathic hero/fixer" I have found myself attracted to people with BPD for so many reasons over the years (usually sexually at first and then with the goal to "save/fix"). After all the failed and overly dramatic/toxic relationships, I've come to the realization that there is no hope for a healthy and stable relationship with these people. While exciting at first, it is doomed to fail, they are the black abysses that Sam mentions. If you are like me, please realize that if your ultimate goal is true and long-lasting love and a sound and functional family, that you must not attempt to fix or tame someone with BPD. Stay away from them like the plague, as they will only sell you false hopes and suck the life-force out of you over time, like a vampire/disease. These people will never change and will just go on being the way they are regardless, you are really inconsequential to their lives and wellbeing. You are just a placeholder in their eventual demise...Learn to love and value yourself and find someone who you can build a stable and long-lasting foundation with. Otherwise, like Sam said: you will continuously be living in a disappointing horror movie...
I have been away from her for 10 months now . Professor vaknin has helped me to understand bpd and narcissism. I am grateful for him . Thank you sir for your comment. It resonates with me to a tee
Sam has said in other videos the prognosis is much higher than with other personality disorders and that there seems to be spontaneous recovery at a certain stage and if remission lasts long enough, BPD can no longer even be detected. He himself has NPD and is married to someone with BPD. You are spewing hate because you never understood.
@@chenaypotgieter4786. Absolutely agree , God bless you
U
@@chenaypotgieter4786so are you saying it is curable? Thanks
All you are saying is so true. I am 40 years old and I had moved again. I started getting serious panic attacks during covid and seeked Psychotherapy. I was diagnosed with Borderline and ever this then I see my life thru different eyes. I sign everything you just said. I feel like I don't know myself. It is impossible for me to achieve anything. I dont remember my past. I have never been interested in Sex. I only had disfuntional realationships in my life. I have been single for 10 years due to the anxiety that comes with getting to know someone. I am on medication today which gives me some sort of stablility, yet my depression is still drowning me. I can not focus on anything. I can not ever read a book, learn something new. My brain is constantly racing and thinking about existential questions.
Please try mindfulness meditation. Download insight timer, look up David J and do his meditation Deep Healing for two months to help your brain. The app is free. You must do it everyday and keep up with it.
I feel the exact same way when I read your comment I couldn’t believe that somebody else was saying this exactly the part about sex absolutely every thing you said amazing
Sam Vaknin you have saved my life by helping me understand so many things
I remember watching an old video with a borderline where she was being interviewed at a music festival. She paused the video and started crying. I asked what's wrong and she said, "I know her" I said of course you do. It's you! She replied, " I'm feeling what she felt" referring to her past self in the third person. Shrugged my head then, but it makes sense after watching this.
That’s fascinating and I can relate to similar experiences with a borderline.
Looking back now when she used to claim what she was. She clearly wasn’t! Tbh she doesn’t know who the fcuk she is. So that shapeshifting and seeing her former self as someone as third person is truly disturbing but totally understandable when dealing with a borderline.
where to find the video? or was it even public?
I appreciate the fact your giving real information. Many other people talking about these disorders online seem to be running on an emotional reaction to the ugliness of the disorders... I get where they're coming from.. But they offer little insight into why a person acts like this... They're more calling out why it's unpleasant to deal with.. That I got. The why a person becomes like this I find more informative and helpful.
Thanks for the content.
Thank you, Sam. I needed this information today. My entire life just got turned upside down by this, I am thrust into raw survival mode. I've concluded these people are murderers who lack the courage to do the deed. Your insights have now saved my life as I have generally rebuked psychology but your lectures have given me an understanding that only Elan Golomb's book "Trapped In The Mirror" from 1992 has even touched on - as soon as I read her book (GIVEN TO ME BY MY NARC!) in 2006 I became aware of you and your book, which I have always remembered as having been published in 1995. I have not seen your mention of her work here, I have fairly looked for it. Your insights have helped me puzzle through an entire lifetime of this torment and tyranny - I knew I would go NO CONTACT from both parents at 10 years old, I am now almost 54. When a therapist cannot hide their shock at what you are telling them happened to you, you know you are alone FOREVER and nobody can ever help you. Thank you again, your help to me is immeasurable and has given me the only truly parental, loving experience I've ever had in my life.
☆♡◇
good luck with your life man, hope it gets better, keep your head up!
WOW! From 49:29 Sam resumes very well from a personal point of view. A black hole that consumes you. But at the same time you are consumed, they put you in a state you never been. Sometimes pure ecstasy. Sometimes is hell.
Dr. Vaknin, your videos are ALWAYS informative! Thank you for bringing awareness to the plethora of details regarding narcissism and coining so many terms and phrases.
Thanks so much Sam!!! I really appreciate all the work you put into these topics. I would be lost without your videos, especially the ones about BPD. Thank you for helping me feel understood.
AMAZING!!!! THANK YOU so much Prof.Vaknin!!!
Thank you, Sam, for sharing this so fully.
The end had me almost in tears. 3 years i went thru hell with a bpd…. exacerbated with a substance abuse problem to Vyvanse to boot she would double dose all the time plus she got her child on it when she couldn’t get it when she moved to a different state so she was able to get her son on it so she could start taking it until she could work out the ins for herself.
Countless sex parnters, 6+ abortions, basically finding out she was a escort per say from Baltimore or might as well be.
And in the end, i ended up get a restraining order and a judgement against her there was no choice. She was someone I cared deeply for too. Sam the look on your face said it all to me at the end of your video. I know you have definitely been there two. Being with a bpd with drive you insane and crush your heart. They don’t have a soul it doesn’t hurt them at all to hurt you. The remorse is fake they are fake they are a empty black hole mimicking what they see another ppl do. The 100 percent do NOT have self.
Very eloquently put at the end. 💛
Professor Vaknin, thank you.
Thank you for creating and sharing.
I admire you, and hope to meet you in person. You add meanings to my suffer. You educate me every time I listen to you. God bless you.
This is also used as a pejorative to mean “difficult”, and I was given this despite coming up negative in all the tests. I have a very cohesive sense of self. I’m just rightfully suspicious of many, especially MH professionals. The only thing that really fits is the affective component. I’m quite sensitive, and can be very emotional.
Sometimes we seem to really forget disturbing events. With narcissists I notice that they seem to keep some memories in storage to take them out as needed. So memory organising seem like a conscious process? An editing out of experiences that disturb the present idendity...
Yes I just went through all that I'm so happy I'm not in a relationship with her anymore I'm just now starting feeling alive again it's been a tough month for me but I got this
Memories are easier to keep if they are attached to an emotion, narcissists feel negative emotions so it would make sense if they keep the bad ones
Best video, helps us understand those afflicted better! Xx❤❤ Painful too, when I think of those I know and care about!
I got diagnosed with identity disturbance several years ago and…my grandmother had schizophrenia. I watched her talk to imaginary people as a child, she was a lovely lady when she was present.
I wish my therapist had the decency to tell me I had BPD. If she had, I could understand that a lot of what I experience is likely down to genetics. I’ve spent years guessing
Thank you Professor for sharing this information, it’s deeply appreciated
Sam, can you talk about the affects of borderlines/identity disturbances associated with having children? And why borderlines seek children to fill the fear of abandonment/intimacy void? And what affects this has upon the child.
Makes me wonder if that’s why my ex lets her almost 10yr old sleep with her.
@@lieutenantdangle3128Yes!! Wow, you and I would have loads to talk about. haha! My ex did the same, it was replacing the SO (significant other) with the child. I see an incredible burden put on my child from my ex to be the man SO role in what should be a parent/child relationship.
This is healthy, this is parentification of the child.
@@hman9488 I’m sure we would. Lol
The other thing that stood out early on was how her son would also tell her how beautiful she was. He was 4 when we got together and he will be 10 in a few weeks. I always wondered if she had taught him to say that as a way to get validation. And she is beautiful, I always told her that.
@@lieutenantdangle3128 Yes, this sounds like emotional incest. Not surprising, the child is used as a pillar source of intimacy all through the dependent years as the borderline knows that the child won't abandon her. The child is the BL greatest asset. That doesn't mean it won't be disrupted if the child expresses boundaries like "no", and kryptonite to the BL.. Truly sad for the child, as he will never grow up with clear boundaries in this situation.
The whole bed thing is for her, no one else!
Thanks, very insightfull
Thank you very much for your videos, prof. Vaknin. I recently experienced a relationship with a narcissist who lives with his mother even though he is old enough to move out and he is also very intelligent, tallented and highly educated with a good job, quite good looking, charming, with good sense of humor. He seems more like a cerebral narc, but not sure. I found out, I was not the only girl he dated. I am completely confused and traumatized. We had so many things in common. He refuses to live together with his girlfriend(s). He sometimes needed to call his mum when dating atc. He thinks he is such genius who deserves ideal partner who would understand him for 100 percent. I wonder how that person ends up. That is so crazy!
Please start to wonder how YOU will end up and stop focusing on him!
I was diagnosed with BPD and psychosis when I was 13. Very interesting..
Agree. But, understanding is penultimate for compassion and resistance. TU, Mr. Vaknin. D.
Could you please do a video on recovered borderlines and what it took? I would like to see more of that. While I appreciate your honesty. All of the content I find on the Internet about BPD is very discouraging, what you said in the end "is the closest it gets to a horror movie" is very sad, very very sad, but I know it's true, however how can we recover?
@@unparalleledbliss22 I know right? Like I only heard him say "a recovered borderline" but didn't give any details, no one does and it is really depressing. 🤷🏻♀️
I'll send you a link to resources if you would like. I'm not going to post a link to someone else here because this site is a lot of accomplishment and I feel it would be insulting to presume.
just like my comment or something so I know you're still interested
@@joshualong4690 hello there, I would like the links to these resources if it’s possible, thank you for your time.
@@sliimjiim791 sure, one second I'll try to find where I set the list
@@joshualong4690 thank you
You're fun to listen to. 😄
Do you think Cptsd and BPD are the same ? And if not, what makes them different? I actually feel that I match more of your new suggestion of the covert borderline because there are no raging outbursts, I keep everything inside.
Search the channel.
@@samvaknin I will do so. Thank you. Your videos are very informative and helpful . 🙏😊
Hi Sam …. I was wondering if you Could you maybe do a video on how the borderline or narcissist would “look” in old age …. Seeing as they can’t get supply for physical looks anymore… their body is giving in and they can’t get supply like they used to….. are they often alone in old age? How would they differ from another “normal” old grumpy person? And how would they start to deal with acceptance of their inevitable mortality….@samvaknin
Search this channel.
@@samvaknin thank you found it
They look like raisins when they’ve gone awhile without supply. They start to shrivel up. With supply, they are plump and supple.
You are saying it again in many of your lectures but still, I cannot imagine what "there is nothing there" or "inner emptiness" feel like. It a very strange, outlandish concept to me.
Such a love letter, professor 😅
How common is this shape shifting borderline also the type of ppl who are now identifying as trans with gender dysphoria???? I think there's a connection to ppl who are on the autism spectrum also having this gender dysphoria, or growing up to having borderline.
The entire woke movement is a mental issue
@@Ib90 I just watched Dr Drew Pinsky's podcast the other day and he had on some behavior analyst who was discussing this connection. Very interesting
@@Paarthurnaxdova I tend to agree ( and I consider myself moderate -liberal). I'm not sure wokism explains it. I think the internet, social media, the phenomena of how unregulated CZcams is, outside legitimate norms of news and education, coupled with reality TV moved quicker than any of us have been able to integrate, ESPECIALLY adolescents and teens. Our entire world seems to be narcissistic! And the young people at large goal is to become famous for no established mechanism to fame. Our world has changed exponentially with social media and access to the entire world. The patterns emerging in the brain and psyche is the wild wild west. No rules and no guardrails!
@@candyland8903 I saw that too. It was fascinating! I commented in a similar fashion somewhere near your comment if you see it. My god, THE REAL HOUSEWIVES alone are nothing but narcissists, borderlines, Histrionics and anti-socials trying and failing to have relationships. So has 90 Day Fiance's have devolved into mental illness as entertainment. Honey Boo Boo....on and on and this pain and trauma which is true illness is watched as both entertainment and aspiration. What is to become of us as a species. I would hate to be 14 again.
@@Ib90 yes! Social media moved at warp speed. We're seeing rules and guardrails have a place. Beginning with reality TV to multi millionaire $ CZcamsrs with all sorts of mental illnesses as entertainment has placed us in a strange trajectory. In direct contrast to Sam Vaknin with serious credentials on CZcams, absolutely anyone can peddle quackery as psychology and mental health and become very very wealthy for wrong info. which could harm millions of people, especially adolescents. What is the answer? A bell can never be unrung.
Couldn’t it be said that while the grandiose personality trait could also be characterized by a feeling of actually being afraid that it will be discovered accidentally? Or am I describing a psychopath? A psychopath imitates what he perceives as normal behaviour and if he’s not careful then he will be discovered as being the monster that he thinks or knows he is. I suppose there is the aspect of this disturbance that would cause everyone to know how wonderful and special and dangerous he is but if he is properly paranoid then he would perceive those that he imitates as possible threats to his freedom to move about. I suspect that a person’s real mental health status could be easily discovered if he is in a position to hire others as servants. How he manages his servants or workers is telling in how well he is put together emotionally and mentally. I kind of meandered but this truly is an interesting subject and can be so multi faceted that running down rabbit holes is almost unavoidable.
Look up the Impostor Syndrome.
@@samvaknin sounds interesting! Thank you
Are there any other changes that are seen in BPD when they cycle through the hypersexual/abstinence phases? Ex. Each cycle also features a change in goals, outlook, interests, lifestyle?
Search the channel for identity disturbance.
did I understood correctly that Borderliners typically have narcissistic partners? why?
Watch the videos in the BPD playlist.
For the love of all things sane, can somebody please tell me what ‘Shushanin’ means?!
It’s been months and I just want to know.. am I his sweetheart or a scoundrel?! 😩
Shoshannim is the Hebrew word. In English ( lilies )
Roses
Lol
IN order to find self or name self should the borderline list their interests and values? Is this enough
When you say people with BPF heal by 45 does that mean we create a core and identity? Or do we live with consciously shape shifting? Do all other disturbances balance out?
Thank you
Search the BPD playlist.
Why would a borderliner cut himself out (his face) of all family pictures? Can anyone help me on this one?
Abandonment
Wow. My wife of 26 years.
My guess about previous male/female disparity in diagnosis has as much to do with social influence of "patients" seeking some help to get diagnosed. I think men, in general, avoid treatmemt that would lead to diagnose. Psychology has many biases, this being just one. Social role acceptability most likely is more fluid than before. Men tended to act out physically more than emotionally. Now men are much more likely act in what may have once been identified as female social acts.
You've been to Dublin then.
Hahaha i feel myself in all the states my favorite state to feel myself is south Carolina 😎
The brain of a shizophrenic on a brain scan also appears as a squid
People you want to spend the rest of your life with…… that was good
I feel personally attacked 😐
Sounds like Amber H.
narcissistic - borderline couple Johnny Depp and Amber H.
borderline Heard , narc Johnny..
@@baldersn4474 ummm... I disagree. Johnny is not a narc. Amber definitely on the Cluster B spectrum, but not Johnny.
@@kaylaschroeder1 U kmow him do you personally ?
@@baldersn4474 Oh sure, we have coffee like 1x/month. He's great. 😁
No, lol, obviously I don't know him. My supposition is based on extensive observation, study, research and formulating my own conclusions. Do I know for sure? Of course not. I'm not formally trained. But, like most of us CZcams commenters and studiers, it's fun to surmise our own conclusions about personality disorders. Nevertheless, I feel quite confident he's not someone with NPD.
Johnny displays (and has MULTIPLE people backing up his pleasant, kind and benevolent demeanor) a consciousness, decision-making ability, and action of one who possesses empathy, thoughtfulness, consideration and a spirit of true generosity. We all have narcissistic qualities, unless we've become completely enlightened and no longer have an ego. But to say Johnny is a narc... Nah. I had to say something about it.
I suppose I could ask you the same question... Do you know him?
Much do secondary gaining, frame the picture of the self and the past, some drama onto,
as in essential thoughts they see an investment, pleasure, these valuefanatic princesses, as an alternative a bit more humble-covert narcissists and want to be seen as the victim role BDP diagnose.
Too much pleasure is in it for them, less the famous "fear", not so much PTBS real personality switches, more useful roles and they let of course something like anger and rage out, when things go not after the wanted ways.
In the past of the narcissistic women, everyone were just more philosophical on a self discovery, especially in private education and to the other side there were moral rule humbleness (boundary) education, a mix between vilonce onto, but less social poser ranking media like nowadays, less "Stay as you are and be happy!"
The status of being untouchable, the victimhero. The cult of subjective feel and "no truth out there" has to be seen as right - however it contradicts.
The first, the own, most 'useful' idea rules.
Such a "oh, these sweet child, princess, applause" education, is a magnet, an offer to believe, think in the game logics of the capitalistic education, career socialization.
They freak out on entitlement, "I know everything (behind humbleness) and what not must, can not be!!" such a cinema like it is known from narcissistic life philosophy, in a competition.
They jumping more between roles of the surroundings, the most 'efficiant' and let it out at home.
4.th, partial 3rd wave narcissistic, capitalistic, chauvinistic, warrior empowerment was more a "Let fall some boundaries!".
A lot of such mainstream women are partial happy to have a controlable scapegoat, a person just a bit under oneself in a cognitive ranking, but good to pose in a special career graduation.
More control, status, less competition and cover pressure (the investment orientation again) for the da bit nasty or "faulty" self.
But it is more about the western more 'modern' women+ the BS pushing hemisphere, especially in metropols.
And no wonder, that they come with "I feel like in kings new clothes" at more aware peoples consciousness.
Not a single word you said made any sense... wow
@@Benjy86 Just because of being less into the stuff, while it is written short in this medium.