Traded my Porsche 911 for a Honda S2000 for One Week - Did I Buy the Wrong Car?
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- čas přidán 28. 03. 2021
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I decided to trade my 997 for a friend's lightly modified AP2 S2000 for a week to see if my decision to move to Porsche was justified.
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You can NEVER leave the s2k community or your love for the car. People ALWAYS return and regret getting rid of their s2000 in the first place. You'll be back. I assure you.
I agree
That was me lol, sold mines and then 4 years later I bought another one… this time it’s here to stay 😂
@@moneyseeker8886 👏
There was somebody in my local scene who's on his 6th s2000. Every time he sells he gets sellers remorse. Funnily he would roast all the prices, calling them inflated but ended up paying it anyway.
That's called just desserts 🍨 🍒 on top🔝 😄
I’m not that far behind. I’m on my 4th one. I always sell it because it’s not a daily and it just sits most of the time then I always end up regretting. Luckily I bought my current one 4 years ago where prices were still decent. If I sold mine now I don’t think I’ll be able to afford a clean low mileage one any more.
I'm on my 9th Mustang (a GT350R) but first S2000, lol
I love the platform as well. The S2000 community needs you to get another one as well!
I felt that, nothing can replace the feeling of driving a hardcore track car! But I also hope to I have a daily that is both comfortable and capable someday.
sounds you need a 9000rpm porsche lol
Would love a manual 991.2 GT3 Touring someday
stop talking about it already and just do it, you know its your soul mate
:|
This is why I modified my s2k as a road-going, weekend canyon car. I did the whole track conversion thing with my motorcycle, which made it not as much fun on the street, and riding at the track killed my desire to ride canyons. It was for these reasons that I kept the s2k a street oriented setup.
It's hard to explain how amazing this car is unless you have one or owned one. And even if you owned and sold it, people eventually come back and get one again. Never gonna sell mine.
Sold my first, had to buy another...
Honestly I got a 997 Carrera S and do not miss my s2000 whatsoever lmao. I had an AP1 & it was a great car don’t get me wrong, but I just enjoy the 911 so much more.
997 C2 (not even an S) on coilovers was the best handling car I think I've ever driven. OMG was it on rails!
I retired from tracking and cars in general but the s2000 and videos like this brought me back. It’s my first but TBH haven’t driven it the way it’s meant to be (too paranoid of getting pulled over). So can’t wait for my first event and experience being one with a car again. Only felt the same with my GT4 but have a feeling this car will be better
fuckit bro I just got one and I’m sending it down every open road for the last month pure smiles
bro!!!! im in the same boat mine is stock 02 , I want to get a z06 or something different but then i might regret it not sure or just boost the s2k put ohlins and TEs and call it a day not sure.
They are both amazing and refined platforms with unlimited potential.
What kind of exhaust system is on that please? It sounds amazing.
something special about the s2000 I haven't felt in other cars
super curious what exhaust and lug nuts are on this car!
I can understand your love for the S2000 and your bond with the car. I was big into the fast and furious scene back in the day and felt the same about Mitsubishis. I drove and modified mostly mitsubishi's Eclipses, but drove a few S2000's that friends owned. Best shifter in the business and above 6000 rpm was a blast, but that is kind of where the excitement ended for me. It's just my opinion, but driving around town and below 6000 rpm without v-tec is where the S2000 fell flat and did nothing for me. Similar to my Mitsubishi's is that the S2000 was only fun when you were beating the hell out of the engine and screaming for a ticket. Then I got into Porsches and never looked back. There is a learning curve to driving 911's fast. The engine and weight is literally the reverse of what you have been use to all these years. Getting some track time will be a good way to retrain your brain. Think of it this way. With the S2000 you can chuck it into the corner with the weight of the engine over the front tires, but then be patient with the throttle on corner exit to avoid oversteer because of the light rear end. So S2000 is attack entry and patience on exit. Opposite is true for 911. Do all you hard braking before the corner and be a bit patient on corner entry to not wash out the light front end, then attack and give lots of throttle on corner exit because you have all the engine weight in the rear pushing down on those fat rear tires. So 911 is patient on entry and attack on exit. If you feel too much push from the front wheels in tight corners, then try adding a stiffer rear sway bar to dial some of that understeer out. For me, the Porsche 911 is a car you can enjoy more of the time going slow or fast. I never felt that way about the S2000, I either had to rip it through the gears all the way to redline or it just felt too underpowered and kind of boring for me. BUT, that's just my humble opinion though. I know the S2000 is a fun car in lots of ways, just not for me at the phase of life I am at. Sorry for all your troubles with your particular 911. The previous owner did a lot of questionable mods and left you with kind of a lemon. That would sour anyone's opinion. Just know that your situation is not the norm with Porsches. I have driven over 400,000 miles in several Porsches over the years and never experienced the issues you have. Pretty much the most reliable cars I have ever owned.
Love your explanation on how to attack corners in an S2000 vs 911. Makes total sense and I'll have to rewire my brain once I get the 911 on track.
Definately agree with the S2000 being an underwhelming car in the city at legal speeds. No torque... But it's on the backroads where it really is a unique car aside from a Lotus. Very light, great gear box, 9000 rpm engine. It's the closest you can get to a motor bike and that's why I so far have kept mine (as 3rd car, because I think it does not make a great daily).
Does an s2000 gearbox feel like a rifle bolt feeling or does it feel more plasticy
After owning mine for a few years, I wanted something with 100 more HP, but with the same character. So, 10 years ago I built it and it's been great!
Would your opinion on the s2000 change if it was completely stock with an oem hardtop? I'm coming from a track prepped NA miata and my oem ap2 solves every short coming i didn't like in terms of daily driving roughness and practicality. Also I think if the s2000 was the weekend garage queen instead of the nsx and you had another daily it might be a different story...maybe
I think my perfect S2000 would be a 2006+ with specific mods to make it streetable and enjoyable on the track. Definitely no hardtop - I love driving top down. Also I'd be afraid of the OEM hardtop being stolen.
I've only driven manual stick for a couple hours in my life, is the S2K a good beginner manual stick car?
I'll manual stick you
Sweet video, great editing. Can you reupload the first video with ur red nsx when it had 3 spoke rims and you just had bought it?
Such a cringe video but here ya go: czcams.com/video/fPousLCPSKY/video.html
I've owned my AP1, owned it for 10 years.
Been thinking of selling it but this video has put me back on the fence about it lol
They are great Japanese cars.
Another AP1 10 year owner checking in. Don't think i'll ever get rid of mine. If anything, i'll K swap and supercharge it if and when I get bored of it.
AP1 10 year owner here checking in.
Try to keep my car as pristine as possible. People still stop me in the street and ask me what kind of car that is. 🙃
@@madmax6654 Same, few years back I was asked by an older guy if it was a Porsche lol
Love your content, brotha. Looking to do some vids with my AP1 with that same setup, but I'm having trouble finding that mount you're using. Plz advise. Thanks!
I used a Delkin dual suction cup mount with Insta360 selfie stick. I'd recommend getting the triple suction cup just to be safe.
@@Zygrene Much appreciated!
Is that silverstone or sebring silver?
Nothing like a S2000.
Love the engine drowning out the radio and the stiff ride.
Will never sell.
I still have mine and i love it after 2 gears.
I've had moments where I thought I wanted to sell my AP2, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Much more likely to sell my type R.
I traded my type r for an ap1 hahaha
S2k>itr>ctr
ITR or CTR? I think like 12 years ago, the ITR would have been the only car I would have realistically traded for my S. My best friend had a 00 ITR, and I would borrow it while he took mine. Badass car, it was the first honda from the factory I had driven where you could feel NA torqueness going uphill haha(not saying much), and a car that had rwd characteristics on a fwd.
Fast forward 11 years and I buy an S off of an ITR owner, and after taking it for a rip...did not find the CTR as special as the ITR. Great car, and def would own 1, but the S feels more special to me, knowing how long late to the game Honda chose to boost one of their Halo cars. The CTR should have been built 10+ years prior.
Just found this video. Already got the S2000 or still in the 997 :)
I am very curious about why you haven't bought a Lotus Elise yet. Judging from your past videos, It seems like you like the the Elise more than anything else and you can still get one for just over 30k (they seem to keep going up in value though). Is there a specific reason why you wouldn't consider an Elise over the s2000?
Elise' do require a good bit of modifications to be reliable track toys but the part support is horrible with the added liability of your car being totalled easily. An Elise is a fantastic 4th car not a good second when the NSX is your first
Exactly what @DirtDude117 said. Love the Elise but it's even more hardcore and impractical than the S2000. Definitely would be a 4th car contender.
@@Zygrene I've said this to you before man... Lotus Evora ;) If your Cayman and your S2000 had a baby, it'd be the Evora!
@@Zygrene I've owned two S2000s and two Elises and I just want to say that as intimidating as it seems to own an Elise, once you buy one, you will never have any regrets. It is definitely way more hardcore than the s2k but the driving experience you get out of it is worth all the discomfort. It makes the s2k feel like a boat.
It is actually a very reliable car as well. It does have a lot of quirkiness but it's nothing unbearable. It takes a while to get used to the lifestyle of owning a Lotus but once you get used to it, you will forget about all the discomfort that comes with owning one.
@@lotusupra Maybe I'm just a geezer now but I can't handle the Elise's harsh ride, spartan interior, and lack of space. Keep in mind it would be my daily.
keep it up fenton!
I love Silver cars, the only car color I would buy. It looks clean most of the time, sleek, has a slight sense of igcognito, it blends well with all the other cars, and it shows the lines of the car well. It does everything for me. I can see why you like Silver cars too.
S2000 is a must for car enthusiast :)
The answer is always yes! I own two but have restored 7!
Just wonder where you get the 997.2 GT3 bumper from and how's the fitment?
Can literally be picked up anywhere. Just search body kits online.
From your experience, how does the S and 911 compare to the M2?
I have an 04 AP2 with HT, front and rear spoiler and only intake and 08 997.1 C2 manual with increase displacement using GT3 pistons. Cylinder scoring which resulted in a rebuild.
Before those two, had Evora S with automatic, main reason is so wife could drive and didn’t want to deal with expensive clutch replacement. Sold it and got the S, my 4th, but realize I prefer the Evora but miss the manual. My 997 seems to be best of both and I prefer over the S, nice to bring the family.
However, I’m curious to your experience as I’m thinking of replacing both with a DCT M2.
Cylinder scoring :( I'm really disappointed this happens on Porsche products, GT or not. How expensive is a rebuild for scored bores?
@@TheChannel1978 Not sure but this one over 20k. I have to check oil level every start up, dash, it goes through up to a quart every 600 miles per manual. Don’t really have to worry on the S!
I reviewed a base 2016 M2 manual. Fun car, very pointy and playful. But also a bit numb especially next to the 1M I compared it with. Definitely a more usable daily than the 997 or S2000 and worth a test drive if you're interested.
I want an Rio yellow AP2 S2000 so much 🙌🏼 my dream car
Go Rio, IMO it's hands down the best paint honda sprayed. Laguna blue pearl is also nice, but RYP with Ap2 lip, good fitment wheels and nice drop is timeless. NFRed is also fire. I have owned a couple colors, and have friends who own 1 of every color offered stateside including Laguna Seca which is nice but ridiculously overpriced right now if you go CR route. Everybody hates on Suzuka but Ive seen some badass builds, and they are always cheaper.
The 997 has a learning curve that you have to be willing to climb and grow as a driver.
Yup and I'm excited to tackle that learning curve soon!
Gran turismo has taught me this 😃
I love the S2k
I honestly think someone who is so driver-engagement focused like you are, really needs something from the GT department. I have a 911 Carrera T, and even it's a bit soft. Fun car, and it *is* a great drivers car, but it's still designed to be more things to more people, a car you can take on even the rough B-roads and not be punished. I think the perfect car for you would actually be the 718 Spyder. No, it's not a 9000rpm GT3, but hearing that flat six with the top down 🤤😎
I think you're absolutely right. 718 Spyder sounds almost perfect. If only it was 1/4 the price 🥲
Are you concerned at all about how market prices are moving for good example s2000’s? Buying sooner the better right?
Appreciation is definitely a concern but buying one now would still be a mistake as I don't have anywhere to safely store it.
I was thinking the same thing. Prices will keep going up.
Sounds like you want and need a mid engined car, but one that is a bit more raw and track focused than a base 911 Carrera, yet not as old or uncomfortable as an S2K.
Could you afford a Lotus Evora 400??
The 400 is out of my price range
@@Zygrene How about a Cayman R or a 981 Cayman GTS?
@@johnmitchell2269 Still too much. Wouldn't want to track a car worth more than ~40k.
@@Zygrene 987.2S.
Does any body know this wheels I would like to put it in my ap2
Volk CE28N 17x10+49
4:04 - Fenton, you need to move 😲 that's bananas
Welcome to San Jose :(
@@Zygrene 😔
I get it, but Zygrene and S2K is like peanut butter and jelly
I don't understand why Honda in 2015-2020 had not a new generation of S2000! Nowadays in strategy team Honda has any engineer?
...I hope that in this year Honda engine will brings many victories in F1 - I hope that in 2021-2022 we will see something interesting, something new. It will be super if company make new model, after all in Ayrton Senna time was born new model - NSX.
...But very sad, that Honda slept a lot (lost time) with S2000 new generation... ((
...Electromobiles, restrictions for ICE emissions, ICE taboo...
I still have a crush on my first love. You can't ignore the car that truly inspired your love of driving. It's OK, your Porsche knows where your heart lies.
Get one now while you can.
I have a 05 GPW/Tan 64k miles 2nd owner and tastefully modded. Clean title if you want to work a trade out. Southern car zero rust and issues.
Why you gotta do this to me? Send me an email at zygrene@gmail.com 🙃
@@Zygrene emailed ya
Its maybe good on the track but in the streets the porsche is way better. Ur gonna be driving on the street more and the porsche is a better street racing machine. U go at it with Scat packs and its faster than tuned q50s even tho its the same power.
I've had my AP1 for 10 years and it never fails to put a smile on my face. I live in northern California and it provides pure stoke zooming through the foothills. Porsche, BMW, Nissan, Lotus, Audi. Sorry, none of them can match the S2K for driving satisfaction.
Agreed as an ap1 owner, except lotus. The elise is like an s2k on steriods
Have you tried driving an Integra Type R (DC2R)?
Look up my comparison video DC2R vs DC5R Replica!
@@Zygrene I will! Thanks
S2k are amazing vehicles & very reliable even under abuse
What steering wheel is that?
Momo Tuner 350mm
I have both a stock S2000 and a 997 Turbo, the S2000 is the car that sees all the action!
The S2000 is a rare car that is good on road and on track, usually a road car is a compromise on track and vice-versa, but a stock S2000 is at home on either, so I use mine as a daily driver and a weekend track car. I gave my E Class to my wife, just so I could spend more time in the S2000.
My 997 Turbo is a phenomenal car, the last of the over-engineered Porsche supercars, just before they ditched the Mezger engine and started with the cost-cutting. In every normal measure we might say the 997 Turbo is a 'better' car, but it fails to ignite my feelings in the way my S2000 does.
If you were to push your 997 the way you push your S2K it might ignite that sorta feeling but then again, you might end up with a bigger repair bill too.
@@iluvcakes19 Haha yeah, on track I have pushed the 997 Turbo and it comes alive then, but speeds are very (licence losing) high. So I just bought a 718 GT4 and I love that, it’s like the s2k and Porsche had a baby with the best traits from both parents!
@@squicker niiice! Brave man too. Tracking anything over so many tens thousands of dollars is scary for me. I too have a 997 TT, I'd take it to Porsche Experience track out here in LA but that's about it. However I have a project MR-2 Spyder that I'm working on. That thing is gonna be gnarly when I'm done (k swap + supercharged) but it's also kind of a part time DD so not sure I'll want to track that either. Therefore I pretty much have my mind made up on C6 Grand Sport as a track car. They're capable out of the box and can be had for around the same price as a well maintained S2K.
Totally understand you not loving the Cayman. As a fellow owner, the car is good, but doesn't feel or sound special like my modified RSX. I think it's possible to get some bolt-ons and unlock some raw feel and sound from the flat 6. While this will cost me almost $10k, I think I can get really close to the performance and feel of an old GT4, which is way out of my price range.
GT4 has REALLY tall gearing. I hear that's a fun factor destroyer and it's only flaw.
@@sdlausen1 No prob. Sharkworks can replace the long gearing with shorter 3-5 gears for only $9K! 😬
@@sdlausen1 True, but the regular Caymans also have tall gears, so these are the same in that regard.
@@DC5Brandon I'll take a slow cheap s2k haha!
What is the mod list on that s2k? Sounds good.
CR shocks, Swift springs, Volk CE28N 17x10 with 255 Federal 595RSRR, EVS 70mm single exhaust. Everything else is stock!
Honestly with prices right now I think a ND2 Miata is the more logical choice especially for a street car.
Logical yes, but doesn't make my spine tingle like the S
You have an invitation to rip on my ap2 road car anytime you’re in San Diego. Setup for comfortable daily use with a bit of rage :)
I got one you can buy bro it's bone stock except for the windshield wipers lol 🤣😆 06 ap2 suzuka metallic blue 🔵 lmk bro
YNo matter how good the porsche is, you will always be worried about breaking something and will never be fully committed.
i'd LOVE to have a K24 swap s2000... a S2400 :D
The Honda S2000 ROCK'S
Why don't you save up the cash or lease an s2000 and keep it in a storage bay hooked to a trickle charger and leave it as a dedicated weekend track toy?
You can lease a s2000?
Don't really want to pay for storage and have a third sportscar to maintain right now
@@silligilli25 you can lease anything man, either a bank loan or buy directly from a dealership
Yeah... Street parking an S2k is sketch. Had to do that once in Huntington, and instead of sleeping on my homies couch, I slept in the car.
I've had 2 and regret selling both
S2k is kinda loud, even a stock one that i have, but its still way quieter than the integra i used to have, but it wasnt stock either.. it was hard to have a conversation in! It just depends on what car you came from or what car you have now
Agreed. Terrible road trip car
@@Zygrene perhaps... i do it once a year since i got the car in 2017 up to north ca, this year im going up to shasta lake and redwoods and all that jazz, so many awesome roads up there and then by santa cruz at alice's restaurant
S2000 and an NSX. Respect....
the only two examples of honda that were designed and engineered without sharing chassis or engines and only rear-wheel drive ...
It sounds to me like you just don't like the way this car and your previous car were modified. Go with a nice, conservative suspension (Ohlins) and a quieter exhaust and you've negated two of your big drawbacks.
My AP1 had Ohlins and stock exhaust. My next S2000 will be an AP2. To me it's a lot more enjoyable on the street.
@@Zygrene Interesting. For context, I am a Porsche salesman. I probably have put about 150k miles on two S2000s over the years and have driven a lot of cars that are worth 10-100x what the S2000 is worth today. Maybe you set your Ohlins up for the track, then made do with the sacrifices in the real world? I don't have Ohlins on my personal car but I understand they're more compliant than the KW Clubsports I currently daily. If you find yourself in Orange County, come drive mine! I'd love to swap notes!
@@jsternberg what were your favorite cars that you've driven?
Your right a porches makes sense lol your parents must be secretly disappointed in there son surely
I own 2 S2000’s. I highly recommend you do the same
Yes
Yes.
My vote is for a car somewhere between the two. Something like an E46 M3 or Z4M coupe
Probably would have been a more natural choice than the 997, but something about the Porsche still excites me more than any sub $50k M car would
@@Zygrene I've driven an e46 M3 for a week end as a rental and it was a great car. But it doesn't have the same wow factor as a 997. I hope you get your misfire issues sorted so you can finally drive the wheels of that thing and find out what it can do!
@@Zygrene If you’re ever in NC hit me up and I’ll let you drive my S54 E36 M3, might change your mind on sub 50k M cars lol
I would just caution you against waiting too long. As someone who sold their FD a few years ago thinking the same thing, "When it makes more sense, I'll get another one...", I can tell you I deeply regret my decision now that good examples are double or triple the price they were when I was shopping for them. I'm priced out of the market in the sense that parts and competent shops are harder to come by, which makes maintenance more expensive, compounded by the issue of the cost of entry now being significantly higher. What I'm trying to say is, it'll only make less and less sense as time goes on. If this car vibes with you that much, get a good one and keep it, or else your last S2000 might be your LAST S2000.
What do you think of BMW 1M?
It's amazing. Check out my M2 vs 1M review!
@@Zygrene watched it but why don't you get one? I feel like you will love the car
i'm going to get rid of the s2000. i love the car, the problem is the f20. had it come with a k20 or a k24 i would be happy.. but goodluck if the f20 takes a dump on you. bad mpg no midrange and if broken goodluck...
Im in same page i own both i really disappointed with porsche
I like s2000's but I like e46 330's even more.
Crack is whack.
Trick question bro??
Nah just clickbait tbh
Dude you have a nice problem on your hands. I would not mind having the same problem one bit.
S2000 Is Always The Answer
Poor Miata fanboys
S2000 all the way
Most can drive an S2000 to 100% of its fullness, that cannot be said about the Porsche.
this is more a personal reasoning
Isn't every car enthusiast's decision a personal one?
@@Zygrene in regards to your last statements
Find a 987.2 instead. Not the .1 you had.
Yeah should have done that before I bought the 987.1, probably would still have the car right now
@@Zygrene They're getting very difficult to find especially an S manual as total 987.2 produced are third of 987.1 or 981 but they can still be found between 30-40k and worthwhile to keep an eye out for one. Numeric short shifter brings the shifter feel very close to S2k, no IMS, bore scoring or AOS issues. With the recent S2k prices exploding to 30k+ for a clean one, the 987.2 is a much better value proposition and will hold their value. And I say that as a S2k fanboy and former owner. It's a shame that your 997 has a bunch of issues as 997.2 I'd imagine are even better.
S2000 is wonderful so you shouldn't say good bye.
I’ve had my 997S launch edition since 2013 (I’m a bigger guy, not fat just a big guy) so the s2000 and surprisingly the Dodge Viper were out. The 997 offers great interior room and the performance is stellar. Down side are the Uber expensive upgraded parts. I’ve spent over 40k in suspension and engine upgrades and still won’t produce 400rwhp. These cars aren’t about high hp though. I’d say for you to build up the 997’s suspension loose some weight from the chassis and you will love it. Don’t go down that HP (like me 🤕) chase. I’m about to sale off all my bolt on mods and the worn out engine to build a much cheaper, higher performing, and more reliable LS.
To me the marriage of Porsche chassis and LS engine is perfect
Yeah I'm happy with my measly 325hp - that's more than any car I've owned previously. Now that the misfire issue is fixed I'm going to focus on chassis and reliability mods and finally some SEAT TIME!
@@Zygrene I was happy with my 385 for a bit, but couldn’t help myself then realized how far I’d gone 😖. My car has 160k miles, I talked with Vision Motorsports and Flat Six Innovations about 4.0-4.4 engine rebuilds but 40-55k just ain’t the move.
Hahaha. He said s2000 fanboys. Guilty! Bruh its real simple.
S2k cost me $17k and a new engine it $7k. Porsche 911 is $65k and an engine rebuild is $35k. $24k vs $100k. You be the judge.
Yes go back to S2000... 911 is overrated
I wouldn't say overrated but definately much more $$$ per smiles than an S2000. If something goes wrong your wallet vanishes.
Yes just buy another Honda and get it over with. 😂👍
It is too much, background music, engine noise, and your vocal.....
the 2022 BRZ will be a better s2000. more power, more torque and hard top (i hate convertibles) win win win