Lost Innocence: The Cannock Chase Murders of the 1960s | Murder Casebook | Real Crime
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- čas přidán 23. 02. 2023
- During the 1960s, fear spread through the local community of Cannock Chase. Children were being snatched from the streets, sexually assaulted and murdered. Fred Dinenage re investigates the brutal killings that sparked one of the biggest manhunts in police history, and led to the conviction of Raymond Leslie Morris. Fred meets detectives Conrad Joseph and John Farrall who worked first hand on the child killer hunt and finds out with Professor David Wilson how difficult putting together a photofit of a killer is.
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I remember this well. I was living on Coventry Rd, Birmingham at the time and often went to Cannock Chase to walk my dog. This case and the Moors Murders changed how we lived. No more roaming the parks carefree playing all day, walking to school alone...parents wanted to know where their children were at all times and with whom. Our freedom as we knew it was gone. Monsters like this should be hanged. I can`t imagine the terror those poor babies went through. May they Rest In Peace.
I remember too - it seemed quite sudden but I wasn't even allowed to walk the five minutes to my friend's house any more. I think it was more fear of the Moors Murders though, as we lived in Lancashire.
In my area children still walk to school unaccompanied, and they roam the forests until dark unmolested.
What I've always found odd about case's like these is how can a man do that to a child when he has children of his own ?...glad they finally caught up with him but his wife should have been sent to prison for lying about where he was 😡
Yeah, his wife has blood on her hands for sure. Nice that they finally figured out not to let these guys out of prison ever, even if they are 80 years old.
His wife and kids are a cover. He's acting the part of a normal person.
True
You will find that many MEN are pedophiles. One in three and pne is sox girls/boys are raped by MEN
Who are often married, dating and leaving a seemingly normal life. Then, to avoid the elephant in the room , we blame the wife girlfriend who didn't notice his pedophilia, the mother for not giving him enough love. Any woman is blamed rather than facing up to it. MEN are to blame and we are not as safe as we think. I had no less than six males abuse me, from 3 to 13.
Its common and MEN are to blame
His wife was 21 years old he chose someone 15 years his junior. Who knows how much he controlled her or worse.
Wife should be charged false alibi. Could have got him earlier but for her.
Totally agree. She knew exactly what he did, and lied
@@jonkline709 czcams.com/video/LBvS5M04x84/video.html
.
Yes I totally agree too.
Probably offered her immunity to testify.
Fumbling police, lying family members,,,,poor little girls, how heart-wrenching. RIP little angels.
In cases like these, raping, murdering or otherwise harming children. I firmly believe that the Tower of Londons torture chambers and all the devices therein should be used as part of the sentencing for those convicted of these crimes.
You cannot torture people. That is unacceptable and twisted.
I just pray that the poor little girls where already passed before he raped them
@@user-if8sj1pq6jsure you can. Suck it up
Fred is the best! Absolutely love his narrating!
Fs‼️
Same here! Therefore I 'm watching this documentary!
yes he is perfect
He's great but my favorite is the narrator for the YT channel Explore With Us (EWU) which is also true crime including interrogations.
Morris died in prison in March 2014 aged 84.
He’s with God now…..
@@cadaverdog1424 I doubt that, not that it’s not possible that he accepted Jesus, but….
he still burns
@@cadaverdog1424 Hope you meant Satan
@@cadaverdog1424 He is with Satan . God would have nothing to do with him .
I was allowed--well, expected--to walk to kindergarten, even though it terrified me, after being walked there by my mother twice. Did I tell my parents? Of course not. I'm 68 and still have bad dreams about going somewhere and not being able to find my way back, because it's changed. I could easily have been a victim. But that was the past. These stories are beautifully done.
Terrible. I am sorry that you went through that horrible ordeal.
I think his wife should have had charges against her for lying to protect him! She must have known about him! Why would she lie about him being with her at the time of the abductions?!😮
Agreed!! People who lie to give alibis for criminals should be charged. If she hadn’t lied the other girls wouldnt have had to suffer
She could of saved some children not lying about his alibi
Life in prison??? Life at all?? WHY? Why? Why??
So the public can be victimized again and again? This time it’s their wallet! Why would anyone want to continuously pay for them?? 🤦♀️
I agree. But do yo know what happens to child killers, and abusers in prison right? I think a sentence of hell is the best sentence. Just saying hun. 👍👏😁👏
They don’t have the death penalty in the UK. Don’t know if they had it in the 60’s. Because of their past with public hanging and such it was something they rarely did.
They do have what they call A whole Life Tariff. Means Life is life.
@@brandyrichard6001 that isn’t true so much anymore. They keep them separated from the general population now a days. Not sure about UK but that’s what they/we do here now.
So them being hurt rarely happens anymore.
The UK has different laws. They don’t kill people. We shouldn’t either since we kill so many innocent folks
@@Harley_Girl68 czcams.com/video/LBvS5M04x84/video.html
They are monsters in human form but not human 😮
MY condolences to the family members of this case 🙏🏿❤️❤️
More excellent journalism from Fred. Many thanks.
When two 11 year olds tell you they were kidnapped and assaulted try believing them next time
Sure, children never lie, everybody knows that...! 🙄
🤦🤦♂🤦♀
czcams.com/video/LBvS5M04x84/video.html
@@francesco245 Even children who make things up don’t say they’re sexually abused when they’re not.
Children might make up a story for attention or out of fear someone was trying to kidnap them. They never lie about actually being kidnapped and sexually abused.
Common sense would tell you they wouldn’t even know how to lie convincingly about that and, there should be an investigation, anyway. This is because children who lie about sex abuse are often real victims of abuse.
It would be so easy to find out whether or not they’re being truthful.
The girls in the video weren’t sisters, they were just friends and they were saying a stranger had done it. There wouldn’t be any personal or parental motive to manipulate them to say it. It wouldn’t be a child’s mental or emotional issues, since there were two unrelated girls. There wouldn’t be any history of this story coming out bc a child was abused by someone else, and seeking to create a red herring.
It leaves two options: either they’re conspiring for attention or it’s true. A quick questioning of each child alone would tell you which is true and the police should be doing that, anyway.
You wouldn’t have to accuse them of lying or even let them know you doubt them. They’re not sophisticated enough to make up a convincing story, with coordinating details, told consistently, and to stick with it, together under pressure of close scrutiny. Just asking details like what kind of car it was and what the man looked like could be enough to trip them up.
TL;DR It’s really easy to figure out the truth when it comes to something like this and it’s literally the job of police.
i lived and worked in Staffordshire at the time, and relatives still live in the area. I recall this case quite well as one of my co workers was briefly a suspect because his car was almost identical as the killers car.
Anyone who argues against the death penalty for crimes such as these is a barbarian..
Once again we see a family member (of the killer) giving a false alibi and thus enabling the killer to continue his murdering, in this case, of children. There must be prosecution of people who lie to protect murderers.
Sometimes the family member doesn't think they're giving a false alibi because they don't think it's possible their relative could carry out such a terrible crime. So the criminal says something along the lines of "The police are corrupt and incompetent; if I tell them the truth that I was out for a walk admiring the scenery, they'll pin it on me just to make themselves look good. You know I'd never do anything like that, so what's the harm in telling them I was with you?" And the relative buys the story.
@@Linnet09 It's a criminal act by the family to give a (false) alibi, whether or not they believe the suspect family member is innocent. It's just as bad or criminal as the Police inventing evidence to ensure a conviction. It's even worse when the suspect has an extensive history of criminal behaviour known to the family.
I suspect she lied to keep herself safe. She eventually testified in court against him. I suspect if the courts started prosecuting people who change their story to remove an alibi no-one would ever do so.
It would be so much simpler if everything was so black and white. His wife was 21 years old and 16 years his junior, who knows if she was threatened or controlled.... these proclamations are way too simplistic.
Anyone those something to my child will be....the greatest feast of all times.
Please @Real Crime upload more episodes of Murder Casebook, that's my fav playlist on this channel also w World's Most Evil Killers And Suburban Gangsters. 😏‼️
Morris even looks like Brady.. I have no excuses to lend these type of people because I was damaged as a child by another but it never was in my heart to hurt anyone else.. if anything it made me far more empathetic and caring for others not making me want to hurt others 💔 this hurts my heart
I lived not far from the crime. In those days, we had no idea that here were people who killed children and were horrified. Since then, it has become 'commonplace'
We used to go there with the pony club and the girl guides.. .we felt safe in the 'forest'. it shattered our illusions of safety for ever.
My kids were young then..Never allowed them out out play unless i was there....Spoled their freedom I have no doubt, but at least, now they are in ther 50's and still alive.
Sadly it was always common place. Go watch Pinocchio again.. it’s celebrated
@@alyciamarie4163 Yes..Perhaps I should have said we were not as aware of it and are now, because of Internet and the television.
It has been going on for centuries. In fact, since Caine killed Able.I shouldn't wonder.
He has since died (2014) and there was outrage that the tax prayers footed the bill for his funeral. By the way, the third little girl... her picture is haunting . She looks like she has black eyes and isn't even looking into the camera. Awful.
Fred Dinenage is the best!
Why wouldn't a parent make it clear that getting into a stranger's car no matter what the excuse the driver gives is absolutely out of the question? Given how dangerous the area was to small children?
They do, but social experiments have shown that children will still go to look at puppies etc. even after they have had formal stranger danger teaching
It was cases like this, that gave rise to the ”stranger danger” in the 60’s. Before then children walked to school and everywhere from a young age (no second cars, sometimes not even 1 car), and it was considered normal to do so. Crimes like this were relatively rare. The mindset of “it won’t happen to me “very prevalent as this sort of thing just did not compute. We are used to hearing about crimes like this these days, unfortunately.
i always find it strange when an assault is describes indecent assault ..I mean is there such a thing as decent assault LOL
Lol right?!
LOL, you have a point but there is a difference legally - indecent assault is another way to s*xual assault whereas assault refers to physical assault alone.
@@nicolegibson6150 why do you feel the need to censor words whilst discussing a video of children being murdered
Indeed, people like him still exist. Parents & guardians, watch out for your little ones.
Imagine being such a creep your own brother turns you in to police. I wish he’d been caught sooner.
Raymond Leslie Morris died in 2014 aged 84 of natural causes while still imprisoned.
He did not deserve to live that long
@@berits.2346 Indeed.
Such a bad police work! They had the name, interrogated the man twice AND he was identified by 2 girls he abused in HIS building then released! What about asking the first girl that was left for dead to try to describe and identify him? How incompetent and complacent from the police. Even in those days. What about doing DNA tests retrieved from the other 2 girls items of clothing now, to prove once and for all that he was the perpetrator? They resolve 60yo+ cases with the advance of technology. RIP little ones.
English bobbleheads😅!
When I was a kid, I left in the morning and didn't come home till dinner time.
As we grew up and started hearing about stranger danger and child abduction, it was not as common for kids to be able to come and go as they wanted. Now parents think they have a tight leash on their kids. Having cell phones help some but no matter what we do or how safe we try to make our kids, whether we allow our kids freedom to come and go or keep them tied up at home it doesn't seem to make a difference. There are just as many, if not more children being abducted. The predators get smarter and smarter. They move with us and learn how to get what they want. It's a scary thought, but it's true.
I'm not saying let your kids do what they want. I'm saying if a predator wants to abduct, kill, or sexually assault,they will find a way around anything we do. Our best defense is that science gets better and better so we can catch them and take them out of society. In the 60s, DNA testing wasn't even an idea. We have to always strive to get better at catching them.
Ja, und wir muessen den Kindern fruehzeitig Selbstverteidigung beibringen und Strategien Aufmerksamkeit auf sich zu ziehen, wenn etwas passiert. Aber voellig verhindern werden wir es nie. Das Leben beinhaltet Risiken. Es ist keine Loesung dem aus dem Weg zu gehen.
If I worked on murder and other violent crime investigations, I would give little to no consideration of alibis that couldn't be corroborated at all or by anyone other than a close relative of the suspect. In other words, if the only person who can vouch for your "alibi" is your wife, you don't have an alibi as for as I'm concerned.
It's mind-blowing to me that any investigator would rule someone out based solely on the word of the suspect's spouse.
In this case, the alibi was that he'd been out shopping with his wife. If that was true, surely there'd be other people who'd seen them, people who had no connection to the suspect and therefore had no reason to lie, such as the store clerks and other shoppers. Clearly, the investigators never bothered to ask those people and instead just took the word of the suspect and his wife. It makes no sense.
Overall, it seems like the police couldn't have f*cked this case up anymore if they tried. It shows a staggering level of incompetence and if I was a tax paying citizen living there at that time, I'd be demanding a refund.
It's a little sad how people worry more about their children now, when they are much safer than they ever were in the past, than they did back then when this sort of thing wasn't even newsworthy.
These are really good stories. Im from America and i love true crime. The narrator is great. Gonna binge on these episodes.
How tragic, imagine what those poor little girls must have gone through 😢 their lives taken away from them. Their poor families what they must have gone through. These men who sexually abuse children are dispicable. Good thing that justice was done. 👍 Thanks for sharing.
We humans are fucking monsters oh my God
Not we. Them. They are subhuman.
@@eerielconstantine5051 facs 🤣
Most humans don’t kill (except in self-defense).
No..MEN are. That's who does this. Raping kids, murdering women and children. Shooting up schools. Let's be honest here
The kids murdered were humans are they monsters? Silly statement to label all humans for the actions of some
How do you ever take your eyes off a two-year-old and a five-year-old or have them outside when your inside is beyond me unless your yard is completely fenced in and impassible from the exterior.
I don't care what year, has everybody forgotten Fanny Adams?
A very good friend of mine grew up in Stafford and was a child in the ‘60s. I got to know her in the 2000s and visited for numerous times. She always described Cannock Chase as one of her favorite places. But I’m guessing as a girl she found it terrifying even in name. She never mentioned this history to me when she took me there and I’m American so I didn’t know.
What I find is even more baffling….. is the fact that there’s a child killer on the loose…… and parents STILL allow their small children to walk to school alone, or play outside by the street. 🤷🏻♀️
Different times. The naivety _"it can't happen to me"_ mentality.
@@xtr3m385
Perhaps! But what about Common sense? Common sense is timeless. 🤷🏻♀️
It floors me as well. I worked in crim def for years. This is disgusting
I was growing up in the 1960’s. This was fairly universal.
@@creatorschild8247Common sense is indeed timeless. It has also ALWAYS been in rather short supply.
Very cool to see how the e-fit is done.
Yep. Different times. My husband and his cousin were out exploring in their little boat and came home with it loaded down with unexploded ordinance. 😳 They thought they could sell it for scrap metal. What did Uncle do when they showed him? Call ATF? Call the fire department? Call the military base?
Nope, told them "take that back where you found it!" (An Army veteran no less! 🤣🤣🤣) Ah the 60's......
Makes so much since I had experienced something at 6 yrs.old,thank god for my older brother!!!!😮
Hoi ik ben van NL wat een goede vidio,s Dkjw top hoed gedaan 💪🙏🕊❤️🤗😘💗🍀🍀
DNA would prove he did the other two murders.
Only if they had taken and preserved it as evidence at the time of the crimes, of course.
It's not CSI Miami.
czcams.com/video/LBvS5M04x84/video.html
Thank goodness today, children cannot be alone so young, today it would be child abuse.. May the children rest peacefully.
Why wasn't he eventually released for weekend furloughs like most British Serial Killers ?
He looks like David Byrnes from the talking heads.
The best vidio,s ❤
His wife said they were shopping? Where?what shops did they go to? Did the police question the shop assistants? How did they travel? Bus car Where did they park did anybody see her/them the first time they interviewed him????
They interviewed...... twenty five THOUSAND people? 🤔
Police dept boasting for sure
I think the E-fit experiment was way off. He chose a long, thin face with a pointed chin and Scott has a round head with a squarish chin. I was shaking my head. I actually went with #2 picture on the screen when it showed. Both pics he chose were too thin and long with pointed chins. And you can see it when they meld his choices with the actual person. Not even close. I can see how this could be frustrating. I've always thought that police sketches never truly capture even a HINT of what a suspect looks like. I mean the Night Stalker in Los Angeles during the mid-eighties is case in point. They eyes especially for him were far too round and bug-eyed. So, when they actually captured Ramirez, he looked nothing like his composite sketch. Weird.
Chilling that the attempted abduction of the little girl before bonfire night took place on my birthdate!
England needs a CODIX/DNA analizer, machine every time you bring a male or female into jail you take their DNA and store it along side your records, it works here in the states, it has solved many cold case. England is much smaller than the USA so I’m sure it will work.
You might have missed a vital piece of information at the beginning of the episode. The dates the crimes were committed. I guarantee the US had no such database in the 1960s.
@@samcroft7084 maybe 🤔 but……they hold on to evidence and store it and even thought the person may not be registered they can use the most advanced tests or latest DNA detectors to extract it and match it.
@@isabellastabilito1586 well if only they'd listened to you in the 1960s, eh.
The UK does have it's own criminal DNA database, NDNAD. It's the world's foremost and largest DNA database globally and was first established in 1995. Not surprising since Sir Alec Jeffreys an Englishman who first discovered how to use DNA profiling in criminal cases.
27:15 this part was hilarious and unexpected
and a pointless waste of time.
@@stevemartin6144 What happened to your sense of humour Steve Martin? You used to be a great comedian
There is nothing funny about these, little innocent children whose lives were ended and the terrible pain and fear they must have endured. God Bless them and their families.✝️🙏
@@margaretmac50 No one said there was 🤷♂️ Its weird you can’t separate a demonstration of why it’s difficult to remember a face from the murder part.
@@margaretmac50 you missed the point and didn't clue in to the reference of 27:15. Yes, the story is horrific but the lesson on face recognition was pointless and silly to anyone with even slight intelligence.
Baffling is that they let that expert talk with a booger in his nose on film! Come on people, do a nostril check!
Ah ha....found it. 👃👆
This frightens me, such evil people do not have the right to live amongst society
Fred is the uk version of bill Kurtis
"We must never forget people like him still exist!.." How about we acknowledge they run the world.
What a stuff up the cops writing down the brothers name instead of the correct one
Could have done without the dramatizations. Just report. That's not so difficult is it?
Who lets 5 yr olds walk anywhere by themselves? I don’t get it.
It has been explained that the times were different and the store wasn't very far yada yada yada. One girl walked a block and a half for candy and you know the rest.
I was brought up in the 50s, and I can tell you, that even in those ‘safer’ times, my Mom wouldn’t let us go anywhere by ourselves at age 5, 6, or seven. I think I was 9 when I was allowed to walk to a near by store with my sister, or back and forth to our near by school.
@@carolinegoss856 I, too, was a kid in the 1950s, in Brooklyn, NY. I was allowed to walk to school (about 1.5 blocks from my apartment) from six on. And my mother was a very cautious and anxious woman, and our apartment front door was always locked.
No wonder we here watching this 😢
Stranger Danger could not be farther from the truth, as most offenders of children are someone they know, related too, or are close contact with.
Prof. D.Wildon cited some statistics in another show: children murdered by strangers per year: 6 Children murdered by family members or nannies/ care takers per year: 104
There's a Hitchcock movie that has a girl accuse a variety of people of rape. Her boyfriend killed the first one but she went on to accuse others. She was obviously confused.
5:39 i live in bentley
The DANGERS of MALE ENTITLEMENT! These beautiful angels had to die because some PoS felt he needed sexual release? Lack of sex has NEVER killed anyone. Prioritizing this fleeting pleasure over the lives of these girls will NEVER CEASE TO ASTOUND ME
Yeah the human male species sure do alot of sh#tty things in this world - alot of men are so messed up
???
I don't think you understand the mind of these people. You should try reading up on their psychology.
Check if all the tourists Victor Ford transported from Sandals Grande reached their destination... check in and departure... check all tourists visiting Saint Lucia 🇱🇨: if they made it home... TX
Hoinzouden uw jullie de Nederlandse vertaling erbij kunnen zijn
Lieve Groetjes ❤
Fred, lose the comb over please.
More than likely this guy is the killer of those 2 other victims.
Police should be taught thst one and one equals two .
The wife...mother..etc alibied him. Oh all right then.
Raymond Morris...yikes why kill kids😢😢😢😢😢
Patrick Slane Ex-Wife's...Thanks Cat
The first thing when looking for a suspect is considering gender and then ethnicity. That is interesting....because aren't society saying gender is a spectrum.
The bumbling and human error- so infuriating.
But even more so- Oh the outrage about murdered children, but not for killing helpless unborn children.
Think About It.
Fetuses are not children. Think about it, if you can.
@@berits.2346fetus is a stage of human development for an unborn child. You sound ignorant of human biology. You should read some before looking like a 🤡 in your comments
The police are so inept. Children could do a better job
I don't care what Era it is, there would be NO WAY, i would let my 5 or 6 year old child go anywhere alone!!! I didn't even like my teenage kids being out alone
I guess you had to live in those times to understand, altho I totally agree. I wouldn't let my guys out either, but I was a child in the 60s and it WAS different. We were out from morning till night in the school hols. My kids are 80s kids and no way would they have the freedom I did.
@@marilynsmith365 same here we'd spend all day playing with other kid's in our street...I was born in 1958 in Melbourne and it's just the way life was back then...Mum would say be home by X time 🙂 yes there were sicko's around but it was so rare that these sort of rarely happened
@@carltongirl95 Stop using apostrophes for plurals.
Your kids are perfectly safe outside.
There isn't a paedophile around every corner waiting to snatch them.
Paedophiles are usually too busy at home assaulting their own children.
@@carltongirl95 yep. Some parents said be home by the time the street lights come on. We had to be in by 5.30. I'm in WA.
Why would parents let their children out and walk to school by themselves if you know there is a kiddie killer running around? Are they just plain dumb?
How would that first girl have died if not discovered for 20 more minutes, when she woke up on her own and began crying? I assume that if she woke up, she was going to survive.
It was raining, if it was chilly outside perhaps her body temperature was already low?
Not odd at all , she was only nine yrs old hypothermia ,shock and trauma to her little body . Just because she woke up doesn’t mean her brain didn’t suffer from the strangulation he did to her .
Hypothermia, maybe internal bleeding etc.
Just because someone wakes up doesn't mean they're okay.
enough with the cheesy video effects. Really distracts from the story.
🇿🇦
Persuaded is just as bad as ‘snatched’. Stop watering it down you misogynist.
? Persuaded and snatched are words to describe the abduction. Both are different methods aimed to achieve the same result so its best to use the correct word to describe the event.
No one said it wasn’t just as bad. However, two different words for two different actions. Misogyny has nothing to do with this!
He wasn’t trying to water it down, for goodness sake, he was trying to show the predatory nature of the crime. Snatched is more spur of the moment. Persuasion takes a lot of deception and time. Same result; different methods.
He was most likely using persuasion, as the boy, she was with said he asked for directions. Also, if she was "snatched" the kids wouldn't have waited 25 min to tell their parents who then called the police. Don't bring up misogyny where there isn't any.
People like you are the problem with people today you and your pretend victimhood
We never went to school alonecat 5 Yo or 6 Yo..always a teenager and friends with us....i dont know who does that