One thing I’ll say is I trust Apple as a company, at least more than I do with Google. They make their money from hardware and software. That’s it. They aren’t selling every single aspect of my data for a profit like Google does. There are trade offs in choosing Apple over Google, but for now, I think Apple is the lesser evil.
I hate to say it but I would much rather get ripped off in the form of overpaying for a hardware that breaks that they do not take accountability or responsibility for, then get ripped off in the form of being roofied for my personal information which they collected all times. It's sad that these are the choices now.
@@rossmanngroup another thing I’ll add is that I have Apple products. I recently got my grandmother to switch to an IPhone, which has been great because I can actually tell her how to fix stuff when she can’t figure it out. But the real problem was that there were so many ads and scammy notifications on her Android devices, that she was always clicking on scam stuff and giving out her credit card number to them. We had to get it replaced multiple times. I was seeing these ads in her motivation center at the top of the screen too, like they were supposed to be important. She still has an Android tablet, but I’m trying my damdest to keep that stuff off or out of view. On her iPhone, we have not had that problem, AT ALL. And I appreciate that.
@@rossmanngroup hahaha. I was also gonna add that we have a mutual acquaintance. After I met you in Austin a while back, I found out my trainer (Marshall) trains Eron and I guess you too sometimes lol.
Its big tech they would not accept that. Also the internet is gentrified since Google, Meta, Twitter, Apple, Wordpress, replaced Yahoo, AOL, Geocities, Angelfire, Tripod, Myspace for Big Tech.
Yeah, well it's all connected. It's like what Allan Kay said, "people who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." You could say that people who are really serious about hardware should build their own factories, and people who are really serious about manufacturing should mine their own materials, and people who are really serious about mining should work for better conditions in mining operations, and try to eliminate slave labor in that sector, and people who are really serious about better conditions in mining operations should fight for free Capitalism and against corporate Fascism, and people who are really serious about free Capitalism and fighting corporate Fascism should lobby for those causes and try to keep themselves in check as well. It all gets very complicated... Then comes EU and the repair guy, and throw a wrench into the whole machine. Man, it must be tough, trying to always do the right thing and keep everyone happy!
I've commented to people who advocate the "good old days ", return in a similar way. Where do you stop. Stretching sore muscles in front of the cave watching the sun"rise"?
@@corey7219 from what I found I can tell you, that if you want a rooted phone graphene may not be for you. It's more a hardened os with a strong restriction on app rights than a phone you can play around with
I don't think that's technically possible. Carriers don't have to "support" a phone. They provide a service with a known, standardized interface and everything that's compatible with this interface can use that service. _Maybe_ getting an allocation of IMEI numbers could be a problem, but I don't really know how that works.
@@chupamelasbolasregem Carriers are only going to phase out physical SIMs when phone manufacturers completely stop selling phones that support them, and even then they'll still sell SIMs for years. Carriers just want to sell service to you, they don't lose any money on you running GrapheneOS. Manufacturers can lock out these systems with eSIM because there's no way that any developer of an open Android fork will have any way of accessing the eSIM hardware, but that's almost certainly going to be a "happy" accident from the transition to eSIM rather than a goal.
@@maxicx75v Haven't researched that one, but it's hard to believe it. Here are some examples. 1. My current phone (Xiaomi 9t pro) should be capable of Voice over LTE, at least that is the case in China and I've managed to find a way to enforce it within the phone OS. The carrier does not recognise that phone as supporting the feature and it is not enabled for me. 2. I haven't bout the phone from service provider, but they sure have the model listed on their self-service web app. I'm sure making a wild guess here, but it really seems that carriers can block some phones from their network. That last sentence leads me to believe that we've got a blacklist of IMEI addresses. Too lazy to check it right now. "Space may be the final frontier but it's made in the Hollywood basement". This is how it goes.
Cell companies have started doing this alongside the 3g phaseout. They are actively suspending the lines of "unsupported" 4g phones that otherwise work perfectly well on the new networks.
The issues you specified with mobile phones are quite simular to the issues faced by linux. Manafacturers have a very hard time shipping privacy respecting operating due to a variety of reasons, contractual obligations being one of them. However there are atleast a few manafacturers atempting to change the landscape. For computers some of these companies include System 76 and Framework, while phones have the pinephone, librem, and very few other alternatives. I am hoping that these different companies and projects build some traction in the mainstream to help change the landscape for the better.
None of those are the issues faced by Linux. The issue faced by Linux is that it's crap for desktop computing. Case in point: which Linux distro are you talking about? Please enjoy the next billion replies of Linux fanboys arguing with each other about which distro everyone should be using, while I turn off notifications and go back to using Windows.
The Pinephone needs to step up the hardware, I'd buy one if it had better performing hardware, as far as a good Linux OS laptop go's, you don't need to buy a Framework, there is about a decades worth of very well built and abandoned by Apple MacBook Pros floating around, all will run Linux like champions and they are easily upgraded as they have slotted ram, 2.5" HDD and there is plenty of replacement batteries and other spares available for them, maybe there is a good business model there, refurb abandoned MacBooks with a customised user friendly Linux based OS and resell them world wide?
The thing is, privacy is an inconvenience to the average person. When the average consumer buys a new phone or computer, they want to buy it and start using it immediately. They don't care about privacy because it's often too technically advanced for them to turn off camera access to every app that wants it or already has it, or too time consuming to set up a simple VPN connection to have basic privacy on a public network. It's legit too much work, and I don't mean that metaphorically. Have you seen how Microsoft scatters system settings throughout Windows 10/11? It's a mess. If you want to disable Cortana (I mean actually disable, not right click and uncheck), you have to go into Regedit and add a new D-Word 32-bit value to AllowCortana=0 and restart your computer. To the average person who isn't technically proficient, this is terrifying and could brick their new machine. IMO, only those who are technically proficient and know how to follow instructions to get advanced system setup done within an hour (it took me 30 minutes to install GrapheneOS) will be the people who live outside of the Corporate Botnet of data collection and privacy invasions.
@@mjc0961 Have you even used Linux? It sounds like you haven't. I'm running a 5950X and 6900XT on Linux and it works spectacularly. My entire Steam library works and I get quality updates that don't brick a feature every time. Best part, I'm not being spied on and I can actually change permissions that work to stop spying and I can even load packages into VScode and modify any code I want.
Hey Louis. Just wanted to say thanks to your video about GrapheneOS, I cancelled my order of the Sony Xperia 1 iv (I was supposed to get it on September 5th, but it ended up being delayed to mid October), and decided to buy a Pixel 6a. I now value my privacy more than a headphone jack, MicroSD card expansion, 4K 120hz display, and everything else Sony wants to brag about with their new flagship phone. Oh, and apparently I saved $1,000 on a phone with this switch.
Ironically, the only way to stick it to Google is to buy their product over the competitor. That has to be the definition of anti-trust. I'm curious how difficult it is to try and crack a locked bootloader - like, on the scale of making cookies vs achieving cold fusion.
@@ctbrahmstedt more towards the cold fusion route. Usually along with being locked it’s also encrypted. Those keys can be found but getting them is difficult to say the least.
@@ctbrahmstedt Just like making cookies, I don't know how to but I've seen it done. Apparently it involved paying a random chinese to get the encryption key.
@@RobertWilke I agree with a soft update method, such as updating via download or USB, but if you pop the lid and try to reprogram the flash via the hardware pins, is that a reasonable route? I know they can blow efuses to limit reprograming options, but hell, even at that point, one could desolder the flash chip and replace it with one that has an alternative bootloader. On one hand, I realize that the average user wouldn't want to do that, but on the other, there could be a market for selling modded phones with a $200 markup that have the flash replaced and open. Just spitballing here.
Microsoft still ships windows with Edge and made it even harder to change it as your default browser. xD Most of the fines are wrist slap for big companies.
Instead of $10000000, fines for big companies like this should be 0.1% of all revenue, even if you add a few zeroes that will add up quick and they will take it seriously
Should've the fines a set percentage of their profit margin, loosing 2,000,000 dollars might be chump change to them, but loosing 30% of that year's profits for breaching the law might make them scared shirtless of stepping out of line, but specifically apply it to these multi-billion dollar companies make it more like 5% for smaller businesses so they can actually survive mistakes
It's a good thing Microsoft ships Windows with a web browser, because how else would people learn to use the internet if it wasn't spoon fed to them. It's a good thing they made it chromium based now so it can be fast and secure for the 90% of population who can barely figure out how to navigate to a website on the best of days.
@@UNSCPILOT Make it revenue and not profit. Otherwise they can alter their finances (say, by adding more redundant jobs and administrative fees) to say they had more expenses and thus, less profits to penalize from.
08:22 Being a programmer myself, I'm gonna say that: if you somehow managed to arrange manufacturing open-hardware devices with freely accessible technical specifications and programming manuals, I would be more than happy to tinker with it and write some code for it. Because the amount of hoops I have to jump through to find obscure unofficial documentations and program even the simplest device these days is just killing me.
Awesome Louis! Dig into this as far as you possibly can! I think a big part of the issue here is that anyone with the ability to take steps towards correcting this likely has absolutely no understanding of these exact things you just explained! Someone like you to help Bridge that gap is Perfect!
I thought something like Google locking down manufacturers was likely a big reason we lack any real competition to their version of Android. Sucks that it looks like that might be the case. Thanks for continuing to look into this Louis!
Nah. Problem is that your "Android competitor" would need a fully fledged analogue to Google (or Apple) services framework, or it will be dead on arrival. And you can't just fork Android and have Google Services preinstalled. And expecting users to download and install G. Services themselves... People are bitching that Android having a simple toggle in the settings taht let you install apps from apks is "Google disabling ability to sideload apps" or "making it impossible" - do you really expect THOSE KINDS of people (99.9% of the mobile userbase) to be able to install services themselves? Especially when they can just go and buy an Android phone and not have to use their brain? And even assuming you get some rich sponsor to finance you developing said services framework from scratch, and pay for hosting, etc.. How are you gonna convince app makers to make a fork of their app to support your services? And without the apps support, once again, your competitor is dead on arrival (just ask Blackberry and Windows Mobile, who were both there first, and both died because everyone stopped making their applications support said OSes)
Google was pretty open in the beginning for the clout and other companies could make devices with android but they wanted more control so started moving more and more services into Play which requires google approval (and presumably licensing fees). Fire up an android emulator without Play and a hefty proportion of the apps won't work. Users can often install Play services but you can't base a business on that.
@@chaos.corner Google is letting the Android open-source community inject the Play Services into their custom ROMs. That doesn't mean they'd let a sizable hardware manufacturer get away with that workaround. As far as the current (broken) laws are, Google has the right to prevent them both if they want to. Installing (or providing means for the user to install) Google Play Services without a license is technically software piracy. So, what holds precedence? Antitrust or copyright? Perhaps fixing our horrid copyright laws is in order, so there can be no ambiguity.
@@3lH4ck3rC0mf0r7 Google has the right but issue is that they are riding "Open Source" hype while simultaneously taking steps to coral devs into making apps that only run on google approved devices.
Interesting video Louis. I very clearly remember that antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft in the 90s for them bundling Internet explore with the windows OS. The fine was to the tune of $1 million per day for “offense “that by today’s standards would be unthinkable. In fact, ppl would probably be upset if their operating system didn’t come with a bundled web browser at this point.
Lol I'm a Comp Sci student and I'm not even sure how I'd install a web browser without a default web browser... I suppose you could do it through CLI...
A bundled browser is desirable, if it's a separate distinct piece of software. Now we have Edge, which isn't just a bundled browser. You can't uninstall it, and the OS relies on it for a lot of its functionality, meaning the OS actually breaks if you somehow disable or remove Edge. This is the same issue MSFT was sued for in the 90's. But in my opinion far worse; my new laptop has Window 11; I had to dismiss at least 3 separate warning dialogs just to download and install Chrome. That's some BS.
LineageOs is also be on your honorable list. You have an option not to have google apps if you go through this route. And the good part is it supports other cell manufacturers other than google pixel phones. Asus, Motorola, Samsung, Sony etc.
"I don't really understand how that is but it's something I'm going to be investigating. It's something I'm going to be looking into and it's something I'm going to be poking people about over the next several weeks" .... And it's something that I'm going to donate to! I really want to see how this one unfolds
There are reputable businesses that will pre-install Graphene or LineageOS on a wide variety of devices for you, or at least unlock the bootloader for you so you can do it yourself. This is kinda the workaround for this issue but it doesn't scale well and can have issues .
@@tear728 although I've been installing custom rom for over a decade and its not at all that hard, it's definitely not the easiest thing. Especially as the younger generation seem to be more tech incompetent than my 70 year old grandma. Seriously, the other day i had a 20 year old completely incapable of figuring out how to print a document to PDF let alone link to a new printer and get a hard copy. And you expect people going forward to figure out how to unlock a bootloader, flash a custom recovery, flash a rom and then sideload GAPPS?
@@Guardian_Arias are you using the web installer or the terminal? The web installer is pretty simple. But you have a point... Most people don't even know what a bootloader is
@@tear728 The web install only applies to pixels because they have those security features other phones do not, which makes it easy to unlock and re-lock the bootloader, for pretty much every other phone you usually have to get an unlock code or do something to get the bootloader unlocked, wipe it, manually install a custom recovery, then you can root it or flash a new OS and to further complicate things, any new system update could feature a new bootloader or whatever that can potentially break previously working guides and brick your phone. It is NOT easy unless it's a pixel or a handful of devices that make unlocking fairly painless.
The reason why Microsoft got in trouble with bundling a browser was 2 things: 1. they made it impossible to remove from windows at the time 2. they told oem's that they could not bundle any other browser if they wanted to include windows on the pc, and they had to include windows on every pc sold
So glad you're making more content on this kind of stuff. We all carry devices in our pockets almost every day and I personally would love to have more consumer friendly software shipped with hardware.
Another great video! When I lived in san francisco I would often visit the noisebridge space and the first time I went there I noticed their sign that said: "if you can't fix it, you down own it". Your videos really take that ethos to heart. love it!!
Hey Luis, I 100% agree that if you want to cause any real change, trying to force Google to drop the clause limiting manufacturers to G-certified Android phones over EU legislation is most likely the least hopeless angle. If that obligation falls, you may not even need to personally put 6, 7 or 8 figures into such a project, some smaller manufacturer not chained to Google with further contracts may actually attempt this on their own.
You should talk about how Google Chrome plans to kill adblockers extensions by changes in Manifest V3 (the framework to create Chrome extensions). Basically the new framework denies the permits the adblock needs to works. This affect all chromium browsers, unless it has one built in (not extension based). The only browser not affected is Mozilla Firefox.
@@deepfakestudio7776 All of chromium browser would be affected. But Brave have a built in (not extension based) adblock so it should be fine...for now (the monopoly of chromium is looking to go in a dark direction).
I bought a Pixel 6a and did the GrapheneOS install because of your video. I am tired of being tracked and monitored. Thank you for making that video and explaining that you aren't losing anything by switching over.
Damn, I've been posting on your video since like a year ago that although the hardware Right to Repair movement is great and needed and I really want it to succeed, I'd also like to talk about software limitations preventing from doing what you want with your device, like these damned locked bootloaders on phones. Glad to see you dig into that rabbit hole
I could probably live without the headphone jack but the lack of sdcard slot is 100% a deal breaker and no amount of control is going to pry me away from that.
Google has made a lot of stuff nicer/easier in the past. Street view, and maps have been VERY useful for work, as well as when traveling. A coworker of mine uses the maps and street view A LOT and it helps instead of having to drive out somewhere all the time. However, I do not like how much of a monopoly they have become at this point. And just like how you pointed out in this video, it's amazing they get away with this level of a monopoly when Microsoft basically got into trouble for what they did way back when. I guess these days the politicians are getting paid off a lot more to look the other way as usual when it comes to big companies.
Part of the issue is that app developers use Google app store integrations like Google Maps, so when they try to port it over to Amazon app store it's not possible or any other non-Google app store. Usually this is what creates monopolies more than anything else, the laziness of developers to make their software compatible with non-Google devices. This is also why most hardware usually devolve into duopolies whether it be iOS & Android, MacOS & Windows, Xbox & Playstation. So the problem is more that there are duopolies and monopolies, when there are more competitors there is more incentive to do better, although I think the only reason Android killed off Blackberry and Nokia was that their software was free and was based on Java and not some harder to develop language, as I still feel that BlackBerry and Nokia had superior operating systems, but worse developer support. No one uses their phones just for the OS anymore, it's for the apps that they can run.Apple and Android tricked everyone by saying they can run millions of apps, no one I know has installed more than 100 apps on their phone let alone a million. Plus the death of web apps where apps are no longer tied to an operating system and can just run from the web, initially iPhone allowed you to run webapps just like normal apps and the same went for Android until they started becoming a duopoly and started removing these features as they were now the majority and killed off all their competitors. The real answer is for all apps to no longer be native apps and embrace the idea of Palm's failed WebOS which was to make all apps web apps then you don't need to worry about compatibility, yes you lose performance but then the apps will work as long as you can update the browser on the phone. Unfortunately the world decided apps were the solution and now it'll take a long time to go back to when things were actually competitive and innovative. Remember Apple invented Webkit engine (Safari) that is the basis for the Blink engine of Google Chrome, Edge they have an upto date version for their app store which isn't upto date on their Safari browser, the reason is simple they don't want to compete with other companies which can run any phone OS and just load their apps on their internet browser, as the walled garden of app stores are both lucrative and a trap to stop users moving to other platforms.
...laziness? I wouldn't agree with "laziness"... it's more budget and time constraints. Unless you are using certain frameworks, porting isn't something you can do with the snap of a finger, especially if the application is complex. The application must be updated with every new feature release as well, and you typically need people who are experts at each different type of platform if you want to release on multiple platforms in a timely manner, because each platform has different barriers. That's why a lot of video games typically isolate themselves to only a few consoles, or if they do port to all consoles, it takes a while for it all to come out. And because money and time is at risk, there's no reason to risk even more of it by porting to something with low marketshare. What I'm saying is, we aren't completely blameless, but you can't blame it all on the developers. The situation is complex and doesn't have a single root cause. It's the equivalent of blaming construction workers for building gentrified properties in a low-income neighborhood. We don't have that much say on where the money goes, we gotta eat too. That being said, for aforementioned reasons of time and budget constraints, developers have made JavaScript frameworks that can automatically port native apps to all platforms, thereby making your point obsolete. Also I don't know where you're getting the information that web apps are losing??? There's a reason why becoming a web developer is considered like, the easiest thing to get into. You are aware most pages you open on your browser is a web app, right?????? It just doesn't make sense to force you to download it. There is an option to download by creating something called a Progressive Web App, where you view in browser and you can download it onto your phone... and this technology is relatively new and far from obsolete. ...perhaps ironically, this technology was developed by Google.
@@Cherryblossoms110 Well Blackberry ports of Android apps used to take upto a day, so imo it was laziness. Yes there are time constraints. BTW I am a developer and work on both the back end and the web app client side. So I know what a web app is, I also know that our web apps that we were selling were being shunned by native mobile apps which was strange. Let me tell you that when iPhone 1 came out every developer was moving towards web apps as a distribution platform as to make an app for the Nokia, Blackberry, PalmOS, Psion, etc. would require lots of resources. Today, I would say most of the apps on a phone are native apps and the only time people use webapps is probably 9 native apps to 1 web app, which is much worse than 1 native apps to 9 web apps which was how it was back then. Progressive web apps have been around much longer than when Google even existed we could save web apps as html back then and open them from the home screen on my very old Windows 3.11 pc. Modern development of apps is probably 100 times easier it is today than when back then of course, but that is to be expected with progress and also the death of many browser engines so that modern JS developers only really need to worry about about Webkit (Safari/Samsung), FireFox and Blink (everyone else) so yes web apps are much easier. But easier does not equate to popularity, the Sega Dreamcast was easy to develop for, but third party developers shunned them because they didn't have a large enough install base, not because it was inherently difficult considering the DreamCast was based on WindowsCE, which in its own right had a big homebrew scene. I do understand that developers have a limit to resources, but imagine going to a place where you can only order by app, but this old person with a decade old phone cannot download the app, they will be forced to buy an Android or Apple just to participate, this is what happened to me when I was forced to go from Blackberry to iPhone, not because I wanted to but because duopolies mean that in order to participate I have to follow the crowd. You should also note many developers choose Linux over MacOS and Windows, not everyone wants to run popular OS, and that should be applauded. But look at all the games available on Linux and you can see those same people running a second OS or even a second PC to run games which should run fine especially if they don't use DirectX. But they are treated as second class citizens because they aren't the duopoly and therefore don't matter.
@@bradhaines3142 Its an emerging system where banks and businesses are being built free from big tech and censorship. Examples are Bitcoin, Rumble etc. Payment options and services that are not dependent on Google or AWS would thrive on an alternative operating system.
Good post. Anti-trust was implemented precisely to keep markets open since open markets are competitive markets and competitive markets are efficient markets. What we have now are inefficient markets in most areas of our lives. Companies running inefficient markets soon become inefficient and uncompetitive. That is bad for the country and its people. I hope Louis Rossman is successful in this endeavor.
Is there anything in the OEM Google agreement preventing manufacturers from manufacturing/shipping a phone with regular android and an unlocked bootloader?
@me looks like the Sony Xperia IV Global variant can have the bootloader unlocked, but not the US version. But it also looks like only the US version can use ATT's 5G network and not the Global version. It's just bags of asses the whole way down.
From what I can remember, google/facebook managed to kill off even Microsoft's attempt at the smartphone market, by actively blocking features that MS added to their phones from communicating with their services. Everyone likes to blame MS's failure with Windows Phone on the "lack of apps", and while microsoft is not without blame because the OS was somewhat in a long beta with customers testing it, it's not that simple.
@@robmalcolm8042 It depends which back when. Microsoft have had a few goes. You're probably talking about the Nokia phones though. Unfortunately (or fortunately), there's more to success than smoothness.
@@robmalcolm8042 I owned a 512MB memory version and a 1GB memory "flagship" version of Windows Phone, both Nokia. The 1gb version was indeed smoother and more stable than Android at that time, but the 512 version was garbage in terms of stability and speed. They were the same generation. The thing is that the 512mb version was still not really a cheap phone for that time, and I think a lot of people got it and were disappointed. Perhaps WP would have faired better if they went the Apple route, one flagship device with the best they can do.
Back in the time I was using a Samsung smartphone with Bada OS, and I was happy without having Google play services. But Google realized that you can use some Google features in the Bada apps, and doing something on their end preventing apps to work correctly. The same happened to Windows phone, when a developer created a good CZcams client app, Google somehow blocked it, and because of that developers abandoned windows phone. Google contribution to AOSP is very minimal, every new feature, function is integrated in Google mobile services, GMS. Devices without Google certification cannot access some services and third-party applications cannot work correctly. Huawei is a good example. Workarounds exists but not for everything.
One way manufacturers could get around the Google policy is by bundling the phone with basically nothing except the prerequisites for graphene and then ship a usb drive along with the phone that runs a script to install the operating system the self
Louis, have you looked into Linux for your personal computer? It has huge privacy and open source value and there's a lot of great distributions. If you choose any KDE flavor of Linux, it's a bit like Windows 7 but with way more features and aesthetic changes.
Yes, a more secure open source project with FBI contributors and a recently discovered NSA backdoor that was undetected for 10 years. I'm sure there isn't any more government snooper code in there. I'd like to escape Microsoft if there was a comparable Linux distro, but I have no delusions about it being a safer OS.
I would really like to see a truly consumer and privacy-friendly phone... Ideal Phone wishlist: 1. 5.4 - 5.8 inch 1080p OLED screen without any kind of Notch/Punch Hole or chin/forehead. 2. Optional second detachable screen with selfie cam for those who need it. 3. At least 3500 mAh removable battery with battery protection (stops at 80% to increase battery health). 4. Fingerprint scanner under the screen for better reach ability and to avoid cutouts on phone cases. 5. Physical kill switches for the microphones and antennas. 6. Support for Graphene OS/Calyx OS. 7. SD Card Slot. 8. Headphone jack (I'm adding this because Fairphone ditched it...)
When money is not much of a concern, Linux Phone might be worth looking into. PinePhone is pretty much functional, but due to complete lack of founding, the software is really rough around the edges. Hardware, however, is already there. If the developers would get paid for their job, we might have a fully functional Linux Phone, with an Android emulator (waydroid) for apps, that you need, like banking that you've mentioned.
Is building off of what pine phone and Librem has started a viable option? Their current offerings are definitely not flagship phone level devices, but I suspect they would be much more willing to play ball since they're trying to build Linux phones, and I imagine $800mil can get a lot done towards improving existing architectures.
If it comes down to it, Purism is working on the Librem 5 as a phone. It's certainly less feature complete than GrapheneOS, but they already have the hardware more or less down, so if manufacturing a phone is the problem, I'd at least suggest reaching out. (plus given how long of a backlog they have on the librem, I imagine they wouldn't mind the additional funding) (with that said, frankly I feel like the focus should be on making alternatives to google services, not just trying to find a loophole way to use them)
hard problem with that is still needing a VM to sandbox Google. So many companies have opted to using Google services of some kind, all lured by the cheapest bid in Google realizing they can get away with "legally" sneaking in whatever they need to make more money. Alternatives will always be great, but adoption is going to be hard to get until people start caring and demanding to see less of them in our lives...
@@AshnSilvercorp what? It's a linux phone, there is no google integration. That's my point, Louis was talking about getting custom hardware made, and purism already are making completely custom privacy-first pro-consumer hardware on their own. I highly doubt they would deny making a more consumer friendly device that runs grapheneOS. Eitherway, you said that last sentence like it's a problem when it just isn't. If people don't care, then they are free to not care. You can no more justifiably push privacy onto someone as you can rip it off of them. If they want it, fact is they can take it. It's why trying to legislate things like this is idiotic since there are already alternatives, they just aren't magic golden bullets that fix everything. That isn't how capitalism works. (and nothing else does) If you care about a feature you factor that in when you're deciding what to buy, if you decide to go for something else anyway, that's your choice. If you give the government the power to legislate this shit because "it wont change until people start caring and that's bad I've decided" then that same precedent can be twisted and contorted however the government wants in the future. After all, if you care about user privacy, well, the deep web is FULL of hackers who use even beneign things like screen size in order to try to fingerprint you, clearly we should ban TOR, it's dangerous y'know! It doesn't even take active malice for this to happen, it takes a few fucking stupid politicians. So, it takes politicians. If you genuinely hear that TOR is needed to access the deep web, and you genuinely think the deep web is full of hackers, and you genuinely know that the government has set the precedent that "we can take away your choice to buy/use things if we decide the things or aspects of things that you are buying/using are bad for you" then, yeah, it's only logical to ban TOR.
I have lost a lot of trust in Purism following TechLore's recent video about their dishonesty/lack of transparency surrounding Librem 5 shipping issues.
@@alex15095 true, they certainly need to work on that, but the reality is that it's not like it's a scam, they are just kind of shitty at PR and don't have good transparency. That's not a new concept, and it's not correlated with quality of character at all. Lets not forget Hello Games stuck with No Mans Sky, they fucked up on the PR, but they always meant well. They already have hardware design experience, they are clearly willing to overturn the status quo, and they are CLEARLY fine making a few enemies in the process, (seriously they DO need a better PR manager) so with some oversight and funding I think a partnership would be fine.
One problem is the "open source project" is still their project, you cant sell it. We need an os from scratch, with none of their code. Also manufacturers could just sell the phones without an os, to get around this, much like computers
That's not true. AOSP is mostly licensed under Apache License 2.0 which allows for commercial use and redistribution. The kernel is GPL v2 which also has no problem with it as long as you release your customized source code (although some manufacturers don't do this). There were cases of Android being preinstalled on devices without the Google stuff included.
@@annybodykila technically it is not allowed to do it, but it just has the power pressure other companies. Nothing about the Android Open Source Project license does allow it. But if you want to ship your phone with Google Apps, which are separate from the Android OS, then Google can pressure you.
Ooh, this is really tricky to overcome. Like you mentioned, the world runs on Android and Apple in terms of personal devices. Businesses, supply lines, communication -- either you burn everything from the top down or build something from the ground up. To me it seems they've become entrenched enough that any form of negotiation is going to be laughed at, with maybe a few table scraps tossed for amusement. (Kinda like the "repairability" of the iPhone 14). Even with the FOSS community (hence all my Louis FOSSmann jokes), we make up but a tiny percentage of the world, so even if every last one of us got together using conventional means, we'd be little more than a drop in the bucket, maybe a puddle. The average person doesn't like having to change or learn something new to get on with their everyday lives, and because everyone's comfortable with Apple and Android, that's the hold they have on society. To me it seems if you even wanted a shot at taking a swing at the big guys, you would need an OS AND apps that were just as simple, reliable, predictable and usable as the ones currently used AND a phone that was accepted by all carriers that's just as chic, comfortable, reliable, dependable and (within a relatively short amount of time) popular as the current mainstream ones. Not impossible, but damned hard without having skirmishes with corporate lawyers. Where do you hit them where they're too cool to play ball? Price point. Make a phone as pretty and more reliable than a flagship and sell it for half the price. But who's the best target audience? Which demographic would have the greatest impact in the long term? Honest answer? Kids and young teens. Make a phone that's kid-friendly that their parents can afford and they can play around with and customize. If you can get a bunch of kids using the same platform, that's the one they'll prefer into adulthood, not to mention it'll be tied to nostalgia. Because a lot of kids, both boys and girls, are getting into coding and practically know computers and touchscreens from birth, you'll have a generation that's much more likely to prefer customization. Once they hit late teens and early adulthood and switch to Google or Apple apps, they'll be like "this sucks, fucking dumbass boomer oligarchs". Lol, obviously I'm thinking out loud and typing at the same time, so this may all be just a bunch of garbled nonsense, but the original point: It's not impossible to overcome, but damned hard.
I think Google itself realized the demographic issue you brought up, when they started giving Chrome books to schools. The biggest issue with getting some alternative OS adopted is app compatibility and inter-operability. You have to have something like WINE or Proton, or some kind of sandboxed emulator for Android apps. Maybe eventually people will start making native apps for your new OS, but you have to overcome that chicken and egg problem in the beginning.
@@DFPercush Agreed. That's a major hurdle. The smartphone/tablet OS race basically ended back in 2010/2011 with the two contenders we have today, and anything else that gets tossed into the ecosystem is viewed as niche or a pariah. Perhaps another question to ask: If you can't dominate the current technology market, what about the future one? What comes after the smartphone? Just like the current megacorporations have set up shop and created the ecosystem we have today (thereby having near-complete control), what's the uncharted territory in the future that could be claimed by someone else who's more liberty and privacy-minded? Or territories in the plural sense. It's almost like we're the opening characters in Final Fantasy VII stuck in Midgar, and the Shinra just love harvesting that Mako that kills the planet. Perhaps the way to stop the Shinra is to first leave Midgar altogether. Who knows?
@@r.b.ratieta6111 You may be right, it could take a leap in technology, rather than an incremental step in some numbers on a spec sheet, to entice people to move to something new. Something that provides a whole new physical capability. Unfortunately large corporations have large budgets, and most of the innovation these days is done on massive scales, at least when you're talking about cutting edge hardware. Organizing something like that with a group of FOSS developers and hobbyists is like trying to herd cats. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, freedom means variety, but it also means that you're not going to have a single solution become the borg and conquer the galaxy. Maybe we just have to accept that we are smaller in number and be satisfied with our choices and values. Maybe we need to stop thinking about how to convince everyone else to switch over and just ask, what do we want for ourselves? Basically we want an open hardware platform that lets us install any software we want. In the case of Graphene, it has certain hardware requirements for security. The question is, can some manufacturer out there be convinced to design one that has similar functionality, with an unlocked boot loader? This can't be an impossible task. I don't think it's a technical challenge, I think it's a legal one. So perhaps the best recourse is to seek a judicial or political solution. Whatever it is in their contract that says they have to lock the bootloader and not allow alternative OSes, we have to make the case that that's an anti consumer practice and get it tossed. What does the manufacturer care, they just want to sell you the hardware. I suspect they would be as happy to have access to the huge mobile market without restrictions, as we would to buy it.
Could you make a video about how google is forcing through the new Manifest v3 protocol for Chrome extensions? Bogus reasoning they use is for increased security but we all know it has the convienent effect of nuking effective content blockers like uBlock Origin
Hey Louis. Have you produced any videos covering unlocking bootloaders and why it can be so difficult. I don't understand how in some cases the phone manufacturer cannot provide an unlock but some shady looking website claims to unlock the bootloader for a small fee. Are the shady websites legit or do they have access to software / techniques mere morals do not have??
Third party bootloader unlocking relies on exploiting security flaws in the device. Almost certainly most of those websites are going to be "legit" in that they will probably unlock the bootloader, but the problem is trusting them to only unlock the bootloader and not include some additional unwanted software.
One thing we need to keep in mind.. you need to log into your Google account before you can unlock the bootloader so BigG will always know the identity of a phone's serial/ IMEI
You can skip logging in on Android setup... You don't even need to connect to the internet. The only exception is if the phone was wiped while connected to a google account.
@@bravohomie Oh yeah, forgot they added that to making a google account, they might have patched it but I remember it's possible to make a google account by making a youtube account, and it won't prompt you for a phone number.
While GrapheneOS is the most popular rom(that is the term generally used in the community, not fork) there are also other projects for non pixel phones for example: The /e/OS project by the e foundation; they also sell de-googled phones by Murena LineageOS which is the most popular rom and their team supports many older phones EvolutionX PixelExperience PixelExperiencePlus HavocOS ArrowOS Bliss CorvusOS and many more If your phone is any popular it most likely is supported by one or more of those roms, you just got to look for them. The only problem being that they don't have verified boot, but that's the manufacturers' fault not the developers'. I believe phones sold by the e foundation have verified boot but don't quote me on that. Anyways there are options, you just have to look for them.
Okay. But none of that information makes me willing to give up the headphone jack and full size unmutilated screen so I can run GrapheneOS. 🤷♂ Also it's worth noting that Microsoft appealed and eventually basically won that anti-trust lawsuit. They had to share APIs and let some people look at code for 5 years. Just about the lightest slap on the wrist possible. It's pretty inaccurate to say Microsoft got in trouble for anything in the 90s. Which makes Google getting away with it make a lot more sense.
_Okay. But none of that information makes me willing to give up the headphone jack and full size unmutilated screen so I can run GrapheneOS._ Me either. It makes me want to find a manufacturer willing to make them, with a headphone jack & microsd card slot, & challenge Google if it ever turns into a court case as a piece of anti-trust litigation. ....and livestream us winning it to their own platform. that would be the ideal way it works out. kinda like when you see someone beautiful and have this entire thing flash before your eyes, how you ask them out, first date, meeting their parents, marriage, kids, your 50th yr wedding anniversary etc. and in 5 seconds your daydream ends and they look at you and go _"who are you looking at weirdo?"_ but this isn't a daydream! or that's what I tell myself....
@@rossmanngroup Could it be possible that if you put all the examples of big tech taking advantage of everyone, there might be a chance of getting someone to recognize just how bad things have gotten and bring some kind of class action against them as a whole? some examples that come to mind quickly are Microsoft colluding with hardware manufacturers to force obsolescence by killing off older OS support with new processors. ie you cant run windows 7 on any intel CPU past 7th gen. Apple forcing customers to use icloud if they want to take advantage of certain convenience services, and then make it so you have to pay for it cause the free threshold is not actually viable for a phone backup. i am really fed up with microsoft, they will not let you uninstall any apps they deem necessary, and force updates when i am not looking, and losing unsaved work. i do not like installing latest updates as they have been known to ruin peoples computers. i use my computer to make money through design apps, and microsoft is making it hard to be a power user these days. power users were what help make windows great right up to WIN7. windows had flexibility, and could be trimmed down, and modified to suit individual needs. now its a bloated shit sack that i am forced to use since i own software like solidworks.
It’s the politicians, they cannot serve their constituents without finding a loophole, tax incentive, relaxed regulations for corporations that donate and lobby the heck out of them. The pot is too sweet with enough conflicts of interest for politicians to do the right thing. And what’s worse is that these politicians legislate under the pretense that they are working in the interest of the people. the United States isn’t alone on that, countries like the UK, Australia and much of the EU have this problem and they act like they are Democratic and uncorrupted.
I appreciate the work you do. I really want a full featured device that I can upgrade to easily by popping in the SD card from the old phone and keeping most of my stuff. Including a headphone jack since I have a lot of older devices that don't support bluetooth. Now let's see you do it for cars!!! And bring back mechanical connections to the driver!
I would like to hear a lawyers opinion on this. You would think that once the court has issued a fine, then doing the same thing again would be contempt and have serious implications.
One thing I’ll say is I trust Apple as a company, at least more than I do with Google. They make their money from hardware and software. That’s it. They aren’t selling every single aspect of my data for a profit like Google does. There are trade offs in choosing Apple over Google, but for now, I think Apple is the lesser evil.
I hate to say it but I would much rather get ripped off in the form of overpaying for a hardware that breaks that they do not take accountability or responsibility for, then get ripped off in the form of being roofied for my personal information which they collected all times. It's sad that these are the choices now.
@@rossmanngroup another thing I’ll add is that I have Apple products. I recently got my grandmother to switch to an IPhone, which has been great because I can actually tell her how to fix stuff when she can’t figure it out. But the real problem was that there were so many ads and scammy notifications on her Android devices, that she was always clicking on scam stuff and giving out her credit card number to them. We had to get it replaced multiple times. I was seeing these ads in her motivation center at the top of the screen too, like they were supposed to be important. She still has an Android tablet, but I’m trying my damdest to keep that stuff off or out of view. On her iPhone, we have not had that problem, AT ALL. And I appreciate that.
Graphene for grandmas!
@@rossmanngroup hahaha. I was also gonna add that we have a mutual acquaintance. After I met you in Austin a while back, I found out my trainer (Marshall) trains Eron and I guess you too sometimes lol.
Wait until iOS comes with a "special" feature implanted from MIUI.
Ads in your settings and homescreen.
When is Google going to accept they are no longer a fun, scrappy startup and have been a monstrous monopoly for well over 15 years now?
When they figure out how to promote people internally without having to launch 10 new messaging apps each time.
They did accept it. Remember, they moved the "Don't Be Evil" from their Code of Conduct from the top of their document to the very bottom.
Probably never, they think they can do what they want
@@ultimamage3 Nope; they silently dropped it altogether years ago.
Its big tech they would not accept that. Also the internet is gentrified since Google, Meta, Twitter, Apple, Wordpress, replaced Yahoo, AOL, Geocities, Angelfire, Tripod, Myspace for Big Tech.
Louis has grown from a repair rights advocate to a consumer rights advocate!
Repair rights are already part of consumer rights.
@@Sparkette You're making my point: His scope has expanded.
Yeah, well it's all connected. It's like what Allan Kay said, "people who are really serious about software should make their own hardware."
You could say that people who are really serious about hardware should build their own factories, and people who are really serious about manufacturing should mine their own materials, and people who are really serious about mining should work for better conditions in mining operations, and try to eliminate slave labor in that sector, and people who are really serious about better conditions in mining operations should fight for free Capitalism and against corporate Fascism, and people who are really serious about free Capitalism and fighting corporate Fascism should lobby for those causes and try to keep themselves in check as well.
It all gets very complicated...
Then comes EU and the repair guy, and throw a wrench into the whole machine. Man, it must be tough, trying to always do the right thing and keep everyone happy!
I've commented to people who advocate the "good old days ", return in a similar way. Where do you stop. Stretching sore muscles in front of the cave watching the sun"rise"?
It reminds me of certain casinos where they have the odds set lower and just pay the fine because its cheaper than actually fixing the odds
Another ex.
Here is the fine to dump a cargo ship in open water, 3000$
The cleaning process on shore cost 12.000$
Duh
"If the fine is less than the profit from violating the rules, then it's not a "fine" - it's a "business expense"", as they say
Different odds/betting lines across sports books and casinos is insanely common. It helps consumers shop for the best price
The only way to win at a Casino is owning one.
@@JimAllen-Persona the cost of doing business.
These types of agreements, just like hidden alliances, should be public knowledge. Appreciate your work
The way he says "google pixel" makes me think it's a childs toy... "goo-goo-pixe" :D
I got away with not having a cellphone for the past few months. I got a pixel 6a and downloaded graphene because of your graphene video
Time for me to get a pixel so I can install this os (currently have a galaxy s20 fe US unlocked, and rooted)
Amazing! I hope you have a great experience with it!
I just found an AOSP named ArrowOS for my phone. Will install it tonight.
@@corey7219 Went to their blog site, it blocked me unless I removed my adblocker, so idk if that really bodes well for the privacy of that project.
@@corey7219 from what I found I can tell you, that if you want a rooted phone graphene may not be for you. It's more a hardened os with a strong restriction on app rights than a phone you can play around with
The next step is probably for phone carriers to suddenly not support these phones. Would that shock anyone?
I don't think that's technically possible. Carriers don't have to "support" a phone. They provide a service with a known, standardized interface and everything that's compatible with this interface can use that service. _Maybe_ getting an allocation of IMEI numbers could be a problem, but I don't really know how that works.
@@maxicx75v E-sim? sound familiar?
@@chupamelasbolasregem Carriers are only going to phase out physical SIMs when phone manufacturers completely stop selling phones that support them, and even then they'll still sell SIMs for years. Carriers just want to sell service to you, they don't lose any money on you running GrapheneOS. Manufacturers can lock out these systems with eSIM because there's no way that any developer of an open Android fork will have any way of accessing the eSIM hardware, but that's almost certainly going to be a "happy" accident from the transition to eSIM rather than a goal.
@@maxicx75v Haven't researched that one, but it's hard to believe it.
Here are some examples.
1. My current phone (Xiaomi 9t pro) should be capable of Voice over LTE, at least that is the case in China and I've managed to find a way to enforce it within the phone OS. The carrier does not recognise that phone as supporting the feature and it is not enabled for me.
2. I haven't bout the phone from service provider, but they sure have the model listed on their self-service web app.
I'm sure making a wild guess here, but it really seems that carriers can block some phones from their network.
That last sentence leads me to believe that we've got a blacklist of IMEI addresses. Too lazy to check it right now. "Space may be the final frontier but it's made in the Hollywood basement". This is how it goes.
Cell companies have started doing this alongside the 3g phaseout. They are actively suspending the lines of "unsupported" 4g phones that otherwise work perfectly well on the new networks.
Louis Rossman The hero we all need!
Thanks for everything man!
The issues you specified with mobile phones are quite simular to the issues faced by linux. Manafacturers have a very hard time shipping privacy respecting operating due to a variety of reasons, contractual obligations being one of them. However there are atleast a few manafacturers atempting to change the landscape. For computers some of these companies include System 76 and Framework, while phones have the pinephone, librem, and very few other alternatives. I am hoping that these different companies and projects build some traction in the mainstream to help change the landscape for the better.
The Steam Deck is built off Linux
None of those are the issues faced by Linux. The issue faced by Linux is that it's crap for desktop computing. Case in point: which Linux distro are you talking about? Please enjoy the next billion replies of Linux fanboys arguing with each other about which distro everyone should be using, while I turn off notifications and go back to using Windows.
The Pinephone needs to step up the hardware, I'd buy one if it had better performing hardware, as far as a good Linux OS laptop go's, you don't need to buy a Framework, there is about a decades worth of very well built and abandoned by Apple MacBook Pros floating around, all will run Linux like champions and they are easily upgraded as they have slotted ram, 2.5" HDD and there is plenty of replacement batteries and other spares available for them, maybe there is a good business model there, refurb abandoned MacBooks with a customised user friendly Linux based OS and resell them world wide?
The thing is, privacy is an inconvenience to the average person. When the average consumer buys a new phone or computer, they want to buy it and start using it immediately. They don't care about privacy because it's often too technically advanced for them to turn off camera access to every app that wants it or already has it, or too time consuming to set up a simple VPN connection to have basic privacy on a public network. It's legit too much work, and I don't mean that metaphorically. Have you seen how Microsoft scatters system settings throughout Windows 10/11? It's a mess. If you want to disable Cortana (I mean actually disable, not right click and uncheck), you have to go into Regedit and add a new D-Word 32-bit value to AllowCortana=0 and restart your computer. To the average person who isn't technically proficient, this is terrifying and could brick their new machine.
IMO, only those who are technically proficient and know how to follow instructions to get advanced system setup done within an hour (it took me 30 minutes to install GrapheneOS) will be the people who live outside of the Corporate Botnet of data collection and privacy invasions.
@@mjc0961 Have you even used Linux? It sounds like you haven't. I'm running a 5950X and 6900XT on Linux and it works spectacularly. My entire Steam library works and I get quality updates that don't brick a feature every time. Best part, I'm not being spied on and I can actually change permissions that work to stop spying and I can even load packages into VScode and modify any code I want.
Hey Louis. Just wanted to say thanks to your video about GrapheneOS, I cancelled my order of the Sony Xperia 1 iv (I was supposed to get it on September 5th, but it ended up being delayed to mid October), and decided to buy a Pixel 6a.
I now value my privacy more than a headphone jack, MicroSD card expansion, 4K 120hz display, and everything else Sony wants to brag about with their new flagship phone.
Oh, and apparently I saved $1,000 on a phone with this switch.
Makes me sick that this is even a choice now, but I hope that it is not a choice in the not so distant future
Ironically, the only way to stick it to Google is to buy their product over the competitor. That has to be the definition of anti-trust. I'm curious how difficult it is to try and crack a locked bootloader - like, on the scale of making cookies vs achieving cold fusion.
@@ctbrahmstedt more towards the cold fusion route. Usually along with being locked it’s also encrypted. Those keys can be found but getting them is difficult to say the least.
@@ctbrahmstedt Just like making cookies, I don't know how to but I've seen it done. Apparently it involved paying a random chinese to get the encryption key.
@@RobertWilke I agree with a soft update method, such as updating via download or USB, but if you pop the lid and try to reprogram the flash via the hardware pins, is that a reasonable route? I know they can blow efuses to limit reprograming options, but hell, even at that point, one could desolder the flash chip and replace it with one that has an alternative bootloader. On one hand, I realize that the average user wouldn't want to do that, but on the other, there could be a market for selling modded phones with a $200 markup that have the flash replaced and open. Just spitballing here.
Louis "Privacy and Self-sovereign" Rossmann 👏I've been waiting for this development!
Microsoft still ships windows with Edge and made it even harder to change it as your default browser. xD Most of the fines are wrist slap for big companies.
Instead of $10000000, fines for big companies like this should be 0.1% of all revenue, even if you add a few zeroes that will add up quick and they will take it seriously
Should've the fines a set percentage of their profit margin, loosing 2,000,000 dollars might be chump change to them, but loosing 30% of that year's profits for breaching the law might make them scared shirtless of stepping out of line, but specifically apply it to these multi-billion dollar companies make it more like 5% for smaller businesses so they can actually survive mistakes
As long as these companies own the law makers nothing will ever change.
It's a good thing Microsoft ships Windows with a web browser, because how else would people learn to use the internet if it wasn't spoon fed to them. It's a good thing they made it chromium based now so it can be fast and secure for the 90% of population who can barely figure out how to navigate to a website on the best of days.
@@UNSCPILOT Make it revenue and not profit. Otherwise they can alter their finances (say, by adding more redundant jobs and administrative fees) to say they had more expenses and thus, less profits to penalize from.
Qualcomm won't let you buy their high end chipsets unless you are a large brand.
08:22 Being a programmer myself, I'm gonna say that: if you somehow managed to arrange manufacturing open-hardware devices with freely accessible technical specifications and programming manuals, I would be more than happy to tinker with it and write some code for it. Because the amount of hoops I have to jump through to find obscure unofficial documentations and program even the simplest device these days is just killing me.
I just want to write C, but that's not cool or something anymore...
@@grugiv That depends. Low-level and system programming (device drivers etc.) still can't do without C.
@@bonbonpony linux 6.0 has rust :(
Pinephone any good?
@@grugiv Isn't rust basically less painful to use C?
This is big, I'm all for this. Thank God for you Louis.
Well said Louis now go kick there butts.
Awesome Louis! Dig into this as far as you possibly can! I think a big part of the issue here is that anyone with the ability to take steps towards correcting this likely has absolutely no understanding of these exact things you just explained! Someone like you to help Bridge that gap is Perfect!
"The European commission is fining google 4.3 dollars" had me rolling for a second
I thought something like Google locking down manufacturers was likely a big reason we lack any real competition to their version of Android. Sucks that it looks like that might be the case. Thanks for continuing to look into this Louis!
Yes there are Linux Phones Pine64 is selling but they are only meant for Open Source people.
Nah. Problem is that your "Android competitor" would need a fully fledged analogue to Google (or Apple) services framework, or it will be dead on arrival. And you can't just fork Android and have Google Services preinstalled. And expecting users to download and install G. Services themselves... People are bitching that Android having a simple toggle in the settings taht let you install apps from apks is "Google disabling ability to sideload apps" or "making it impossible" - do you really expect THOSE KINDS of people (99.9% of the mobile userbase) to be able to install services themselves? Especially when they can just go and buy an Android phone and not have to use their brain?
And even assuming you get some rich sponsor to finance you developing said services framework from scratch, and pay for hosting, etc.. How are you gonna convince app makers to make a fork of their app to support your services? And without the apps support, once again, your competitor is dead on arrival (just ask Blackberry and Windows Mobile, who were both there first, and both died because everyone stopped making their applications support said OSes)
Google was pretty open in the beginning for the clout and other companies could make devices with android but they wanted more control so started moving more and more services into Play which requires google approval (and presumably licensing fees). Fire up an android emulator without Play and a hefty proportion of the apps won't work. Users can often install Play services but you can't base a business on that.
@@chaos.corner Google is letting the Android open-source community inject the Play Services into their custom ROMs. That doesn't mean they'd let a sizable hardware manufacturer get away with that workaround.
As far as the current (broken) laws are, Google has the right to prevent them both if they want to. Installing (or providing means for the user to install) Google Play Services without a license is technically software piracy.
So, what holds precedence? Antitrust or copyright? Perhaps fixing our horrid copyright laws is in order, so there can be no ambiguity.
@@3lH4ck3rC0mf0r7 Google has the right but issue is that they are riding "Open Source" hype while simultaneously taking steps to coral devs into making apps that only run on google approved devices.
Americans seeking domestic legislative relief from foreign lawmakers, shows how little confidence there is in the U.S. government.
Interesting video Louis. I very clearly remember that antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft in the 90s for them bundling Internet explore with the windows OS. The fine was to the tune of $1 million per day for “offense “that by today’s standards would be unthinkable. In fact, ppl would probably be upset if their operating system didn’t come with a bundled web browser at this point.
Lol I'm a Comp Sci student and I'm not even sure how I'd install a web browser without a default web browser... I suppose you could do it through CLI...
@@definingslawek4731 a cd ROM installation disk 😂
@@definingslawek4731 Package manager
A bundled browser is desirable, if it's a separate distinct piece of software. Now we have Edge, which isn't just a bundled browser. You can't uninstall it, and the OS relies on it for a lot of its functionality, meaning the OS actually breaks if you somehow disable or remove Edge. This is the same issue MSFT was sued for in the 90's. But in my opinion far worse; my new laptop has Window 11; I had to dismiss at least 3 separate warning dialogs just to download and install Chrome. That's some BS.
You don't sound like you clearly remember it: If you did, you'd know Microsoft appealed and ultimately won.
LineageOs is also be on your honorable list. You have an option not to have google apps if you go through this route. And the good part is it supports other cell manufacturers other than google pixel phones. Asus, Motorola, Samsung, Sony etc.
Google is so optional on lineageOS that you have to actually manually install opengapps.
"I don't really understand how that is but it's something I'm going to be investigating. It's something I'm going to be looking into and it's something I'm going to be poking people about over the next several weeks"
.... And it's something that I'm going to donate to! I really want to see how this one unfolds
There are reputable businesses that will pre-install Graphene or LineageOS on a wide variety of devices for you, or at least unlock the bootloader for you so you can do it yourself. This is kinda the workaround for this issue but it doesn't scale well and can have issues .
Its the easiest thing to do on your own though lol
@@tear728 although I've been installing custom rom for over a decade and its not at all that hard, it's definitely not the easiest thing. Especially as the younger generation seem to be more tech incompetent than my 70 year old grandma. Seriously, the other day i had a 20 year old completely incapable of figuring out how to print a document to PDF let alone link to a new printer and get a hard copy. And you expect people going forward to figure out how to unlock a bootloader, flash a custom recovery, flash a rom and then sideload GAPPS?
@@Guardian_Arias are you using the web installer or the terminal? The web installer is pretty simple. But you have a point... Most people don't even know what a bootloader is
@@tear728 The web install only applies to pixels because they have those security features other phones do not, which makes it easy to unlock and re-lock the bootloader, for pretty much every other phone you usually have to get an unlock code or do something to get the bootloader unlocked, wipe it, manually install a custom recovery, then you can root it or flash a new OS and to further complicate things, any new system update could feature a new bootloader or whatever that can potentially break previously working guides and brick your phone.
It is NOT easy unless it's a pixel or a handful of devices that make unlocking fairly painless.
@@tear728 yup, Googling literally takes you to the commands one needs to do on Google
The reason why Microsoft got in trouble with bundling a browser was 2 things:
1. they made it impossible to remove from windows at the time
2. they told oem's that they could not bundle any other browser if they wanted to include windows on the pc, and they had to include windows on every pc sold
Sounds like Google before Google 😆
I'm looking forward to it. Finally someone is doing something against Google. Thank you very much for your effort Louis.
So Google has been demanding my birth date for a year now. I've ignored them so far. What happens if I never comply?
You are a true hero for all of us!
I'm really glad that you are covering this topic more as this is a serious problem. Hope to see more stuff uncovered!
So glad you're making more content on this kind of stuff. We all carry devices in our pockets almost every day and I personally would love to have more consumer friendly software shipped with hardware.
Another great video! When I lived in san francisco I would often visit the noisebridge space and the first time I went there I noticed their sign that said: "if you can't fix it, you down own it".
Your videos really take that ethos to heart. love it!!
Thank you Louis for bringing these effing terms to light...
Hey Luis, I 100% agree that if you want to cause any real change, trying to force Google to drop the clause limiting manufacturers to G-certified Android phones over EU legislation is most likely the least hopeless angle. If that obligation falls, you may not even need to personally put 6, 7 or 8 figures into such a project, some smaller manufacturer not chained to Google with further contracts may actually attempt this on their own.
You should talk about how Google Chrome plans to kill adblockers extensions by changes in Manifest V3 (the framework to create Chrome extensions). Basically the new framework denies the permits the adblock needs to works. This affect all chromium browsers, unless it has one built in (not extension based). The only browser not affected is Mozilla Firefox.
and Brave ?
@@joebidenVEVO "The mayority of ads can still be blocked".... For now
@@deepfakestudio7776 All of chromium browser would be affected. But Brave have a built in (not extension based) adblock so it should be fine...for now (the monopoly of chromium is looking to go in a dark direction).
Please oh please make this available for more phones, preinstalled and easily available. 🙏🏻
Thank you for banging on this drum so persistently and relentlessly.
I bought a Pixel 6a and did the GrapheneOS install because of your video. I am tired of being tracked and monitored.
Thank you for making that video and explaining that you aren't losing anything by switching over.
Camera picture quality stays the same with the new software?
@@em0_tion That's the biggest issue in Custom ROMs
we just need the Rossmann phone :D
>Be politician.
>Threaten regulations.
>Be corporation
>Send lobbyist.
Rinse, recycle, repeat.
I want to know as well. Go for it!
Damn, I've been posting on your video since like a year ago that although the hardware Right to Repair movement is great and needed and I really want it to succeed, I'd also like to talk about software limitations preventing from doing what you want with your device, like these damned locked bootloaders on phones.
Glad to see you dig into that rabbit hole
I'll be very curious to see what you uncover about this practice.
hey bro
@@mikevoid Mike-ception.
I could probably live without the headphone jack but the lack of sdcard slot is 100% a deal breaker and no amount of control is going to pry me away from that.
Make the phone. I'll buy it! The sad thing is Google started out saying "Don't be evil". Then came the billions and they sold out.
Google has made a lot of stuff nicer/easier in the past. Street view, and maps have been VERY useful for work, as well as when traveling. A coworker of mine uses the maps and street view A LOT and it helps instead of having to drive out somewhere all the time.
However, I do not like how much of a monopoly they have become at this point. And just like how you pointed out in this video, it's amazing they get away with this level of a monopoly when Microsoft basically got into trouble for what they did way back when. I guess these days the politicians are getting paid off a lot more to look the other way as usual when it comes to big companies.
Part of the issue is that app developers use Google app store integrations like Google Maps, so when they try to port it over to Amazon app store it's not possible or any other non-Google app store. Usually this is what creates monopolies more than anything else, the laziness of developers to make their software compatible with non-Google devices. This is also why most hardware usually devolve into duopolies whether it be iOS & Android, MacOS & Windows, Xbox & Playstation. So the problem is more that there are duopolies and monopolies, when there are more competitors there is more incentive to do better, although I think the only reason Android killed off Blackberry and Nokia was that their software was free and was based on Java and not some harder to develop language, as I still feel that BlackBerry and Nokia had superior operating systems, but worse developer support.
No one uses their phones just for the OS anymore, it's for the apps that they can run.Apple and Android tricked everyone by saying they can run millions of apps, no one I know has installed more than 100 apps on their phone let alone a million. Plus the death of web apps where apps are no longer tied to an operating system and can just run from the web, initially iPhone allowed you to run webapps just like normal apps and the same went for Android until they started becoming a duopoly and started removing these features as they were now the majority and killed off all their competitors.
The real answer is for all apps to no longer be native apps and embrace the idea of Palm's failed WebOS which was to make all apps web apps then you don't need to worry about compatibility, yes you lose performance but then the apps will work as long as you can update the browser on the phone. Unfortunately the world decided apps were the solution and now it'll take a long time to go back to when things were actually competitive and innovative. Remember Apple invented Webkit engine (Safari) that is the basis for the Blink engine of Google Chrome, Edge they have an upto date version for their app store which isn't upto date on their Safari browser, the reason is simple they don't want to compete with other companies which can run any phone OS and just load their apps on their internet browser, as the walled garden of app stores are both lucrative and a trap to stop users moving to other platforms.
Right on the money with regards to Apps.
Mobile designed web browser based apps are the way forward.
But web apps are going to eat my mobile data bill
...laziness? I wouldn't agree with "laziness"... it's more budget and time constraints. Unless you are using certain frameworks, porting isn't something you can do with the snap of a finger, especially if the application is complex. The application must be updated with every new feature release as well, and you typically need people who are experts at each different type of platform if you want to release on multiple platforms in a timely manner, because each platform has different barriers.
That's why a lot of video games typically isolate themselves to only a few consoles, or if they do port to all consoles, it takes a while for it all to come out.
And because money and time is at risk, there's no reason to risk even more of it by porting to something with low marketshare.
What I'm saying is, we aren't completely blameless, but you can't blame it all on the developers. The situation is complex and doesn't have a single root cause. It's the equivalent of blaming construction workers for building gentrified properties in a low-income neighborhood. We don't have that much say on where the money goes, we gotta eat too.
That being said, for aforementioned reasons of time and budget constraints, developers have made JavaScript frameworks that can automatically port native apps to all platforms, thereby making your point obsolete.
Also I don't know where you're getting the information that web apps are losing??? There's a reason why becoming a web developer is considered like, the easiest thing to get into. You are aware most pages you open on your browser is a web app, right?????? It just doesn't make sense to force you to download it. There is an option to download by creating something called a Progressive Web App, where you view in browser and you can download it onto your phone... and this technology is relatively new and far from obsolete.
...perhaps ironically, this technology was developed by Google.
@@Cherryblossoms110 Well Blackberry ports of Android apps used to take upto a day, so imo it was laziness. Yes there are time constraints.
BTW I am a developer and work on both the back end and the web app client side. So I know what a web app is, I also know that our web apps that we were selling were being shunned by native mobile apps which was strange. Let me tell you that when iPhone 1 came out every developer was moving towards web apps as a distribution platform as to make an app for the Nokia, Blackberry, PalmOS, Psion, etc. would require lots of resources. Today, I would say most of the apps on a phone are native apps and the only time people use webapps is probably 9 native apps to 1 web app, which is much worse than 1 native apps to 9 web apps which was how it was back then.
Progressive web apps have been around much longer than when Google even existed we could save web apps as html back then and open them from the home screen on my very old Windows 3.11 pc.
Modern development of apps is probably 100 times easier it is today than when back then of course, but that is to be expected with progress and also the death of many browser engines so that modern JS developers only really need to worry about about Webkit (Safari/Samsung), FireFox and Blink (everyone else) so yes web apps are much easier. But easier does not equate to popularity, the Sega Dreamcast was easy to develop for, but third party developers shunned them because they didn't have a large enough install base, not because it was inherently difficult considering the DreamCast was based on WindowsCE, which in its own right had a big homebrew scene.
I do understand that developers have a limit to resources, but imagine going to a place where you can only order by app, but this old person with a decade old phone cannot download the app, they will be forced to buy an Android or Apple just to participate, this is what happened to me when I was forced to go from Blackberry to iPhone, not because I wanted to but because duopolies mean that in order to participate I have to follow the crowd. You should also note many developers choose Linux over MacOS and Windows, not everyone wants to run popular OS, and that should be applauded. But look at all the games available on Linux and you can see those same people running a second OS or even a second PC to run games which should run fine especially if they don't use DirectX. But they are treated as second class citizens because they aren't the duopoly and therefore don't matter.
Most of these apps are web apps anyway, they just pretend to be native. They run on stripped web browser.
Very interesting. Thanks for your work Louis!
Thank you for this Louis
Omg I'm coming
Sus
Me too
More reason for a parallel economy.
parallel how?
@@bradhaines3142 Those who would see you in chains would call it "black market." That's auth-speak for "free market"
@@bradhaines3142 Its an emerging system where banks and businesses are being built free from big tech and censorship. Examples are Bitcoin, Rumble etc. Payment options and services that are not dependent on Google or AWS would thrive on an alternative operating system.
@@seancuthbert4587 Don't assume the "parallel economy" isn't driven by shady government forces to begin with.
Good post. Anti-trust was implemented precisely to keep markets open since open markets are competitive markets and competitive markets are efficient markets. What we have now are inefficient markets in most areas of our lives. Companies running inefficient markets soon become inefficient and uncompetitive. That is bad for the country and its people. I hope Louis Rossman is successful in this endeavor.
You're a spiritual warrior for this one man. Keep doing what your doing. Inspiring so many people
Is there anything in the OEM Google agreement preventing manufacturers from manufacturing/shipping a phone with regular android and an unlocked bootloader?
@me looks like the Sony Xperia IV Global variant can have the bootloader unlocked, but not the US version. But it also looks like only the US version can use ATT's 5G network and not the Global version. It's just bags of asses the whole way down.
From what I can remember, google/facebook managed to kill off even Microsoft's attempt at the smartphone market, by actively blocking features that MS added to their phones from communicating with their services.
Everyone likes to blame MS's failure with Windows Phone on the "lack of apps", and while microsoft is not without blame because the OS was somewhat in a long beta with customers testing it, it's not that simple.
I think Amazon's FireOS only recently got a native CZcams app. Microsoft have a long history of failing at Mobile OSs though.
@@chaos.corner I heard the windows phones back then were as smooth or smoother than iPhones of the same time and androids
@@robmalcolm8042 It depends which back when. Microsoft have had a few goes. You're probably talking about the Nokia phones though. Unfortunately (or fortunately), there's more to success than smoothness.
@@robmalcolm8042 I owned a 512MB memory version and a 1GB memory "flagship" version of Windows Phone, both Nokia. The 1gb version was indeed smoother and more stable than Android at that time, but the 512 version was garbage in terms of stability and speed. They were the same generation.
The thing is that the 512mb version was still not really a cheap phone for that time, and I think a lot of people got it and were disappointed.
Perhaps WP would have faired better if they went the Apple route, one flagship device with the best they can do.
Back in the time I was using a Samsung smartphone with Bada OS, and I was happy without having Google play services. But Google realized that you can use some Google features in the Bada apps, and doing something on their end preventing apps to work correctly. The same happened to Windows phone, when a developer created a good CZcams client app, Google somehow blocked it, and because of that developers abandoned windows phone. Google contribution to AOSP is very minimal, every new feature, function is integrated in Google mobile services, GMS. Devices without Google certification cannot access some services and third-party applications cannot work correctly. Huawei is a good example. Workarounds exists but not for everything.
Good work Louis thank you for everything that you're doing!
One way manufacturers could get around the Google policy is by bundling the phone with basically nothing except the prerequisites for graphene and then ship a usb drive along with the phone that runs a script to install the operating system the self
That's kinda what I was thinking
Louis, have you looked into Linux for your personal computer? It has huge privacy and open source value and there's a lot of great distributions. If you choose any KDE flavor of Linux, it's a bit like Windows 7 but with way more features and aesthetic changes.
Yes, I'm using Linux to do this video! Why else do you think the audio is out of sync with the video every so mildly? :-) jack off audio for the win!
@@rossmanngroup hopefully pipewire as the 4th/5th try of audio will do the job
You can install linux on your toaster and make it work with some tweaks and modifications. Would be great to have a talky toaster as in red dwarf ;)
Yes, a more secure open source project with FBI contributors and a recently discovered NSA backdoor that was undetected for 10 years. I'm sure there isn't any more government snooper code in there.
I'd like to escape Microsoft if there was a comparable Linux distro, but I have no delusions about it being a safer OS.
@@user-pm3wn5er9d source?
I would really like to see a truly consumer and privacy-friendly phone...
Ideal Phone wishlist:
1. 5.4 - 5.8 inch 1080p OLED screen without any kind of Notch/Punch Hole or chin/forehead.
2. Optional second detachable screen with selfie cam for those who need it.
3. At least 3500 mAh removable battery with battery protection (stops at 80% to increase battery health).
4. Fingerprint scanner under the screen for better reach ability and to avoid cutouts on phone cases.
5. Physical kill switches for the microphones and antennas.
6. Support for Graphene OS/Calyx OS.
7. SD Card Slot.
8. Headphone jack (I'm adding this because Fairphone ditched it...)
There was a manufacturer, and they couldn't compete.
When money is not much of a concern, Linux Phone might be worth looking into. PinePhone is pretty much functional, but due to complete lack of founding, the software is really rough around the edges. Hardware, however, is already there.
If the developers would get paid for their job, we might have a fully functional Linux Phone, with an Android emulator (waydroid) for apps, that you need, like banking that you've mentioned.
Is building off of what pine phone and Librem has started a viable option? Their current offerings are definitely not flagship phone level devices, but I suspect they would be much more willing to play ball since they're trying to build Linux phones, and I imagine $800mil can get a lot done towards improving existing architectures.
Last I heard, librem is a failed startup. People waiting months on orders and not having them fulfilled, and not providing refunds, etc.
@@oofyeetmcgee that is unfortunate to hear.
Until executives swing from a rope or spend time in jail for violating the law, fines will just be the cost of doing business.
Oh yes please do! That google BS has got to stop
If it comes down to it, Purism is working on the Librem 5 as a phone. It's certainly less feature complete than GrapheneOS, but they already have the hardware more or less down, so if manufacturing a phone is the problem, I'd at least suggest reaching out. (plus given how long of a backlog they have on the librem, I imagine they wouldn't mind the additional funding)
(with that said, frankly I feel like the focus should be on making alternatives to google services, not just trying to find a loophole way to use them)
hard problem with that is still needing a VM to sandbox Google. So many companies have opted to using Google services of some kind, all lured by the cheapest bid in Google realizing they can get away with "legally" sneaking in whatever they need to make more money.
Alternatives will always be great, but adoption is going to be hard to get until people start caring and demanding to see less of them in our lives...
@@AshnSilvercorp what? It's a linux phone, there is no google integration. That's my point, Louis was talking about getting custom hardware made, and purism already are making completely custom privacy-first pro-consumer hardware on their own. I highly doubt they would deny making a more consumer friendly device that runs grapheneOS.
Eitherway, you said that last sentence like it's a problem when it just isn't. If people don't care, then they are free to not care. You can no more justifiably push privacy onto someone as you can rip it off of them. If they want it, fact is they can take it. It's why trying to legislate things like this is idiotic since there are already alternatives, they just aren't magic golden bullets that fix everything. That isn't how capitalism works. (and nothing else does) If you care about a feature you factor that in when you're deciding what to buy, if you decide to go for something else anyway, that's your choice. If you give the government the power to legislate this shit because "it wont change until people start caring and that's bad I've decided" then that same precedent can be twisted and contorted however the government wants in the future.
After all, if you care about user privacy, well, the deep web is FULL of hackers who use even beneign things like screen size in order to try to fingerprint you, clearly we should ban TOR, it's dangerous y'know! It doesn't even take active malice for this to happen, it takes a few fucking stupid politicians. So, it takes politicians. If you genuinely hear that TOR is needed to access the deep web, and you genuinely think the deep web is full of hackers, and you genuinely know that the government has set the precedent that "we can take away your choice to buy/use things if we decide the things or aspects of things that you are buying/using are bad for you" then, yeah, it's only logical to ban TOR.
I have lost a lot of trust in Purism following TechLore's recent video about their dishonesty/lack of transparency surrounding Librem 5 shipping issues.
@@alex15095 true, they certainly need to work on that, but the reality is that it's not like it's a scam, they are just kind of shitty at PR and don't have good transparency. That's not a new concept, and it's not correlated with quality of character at all. Lets not forget Hello Games stuck with No Mans Sky, they fucked up on the PR, but they always meant well.
They already have hardware design experience, they are clearly willing to overturn the status quo, and they are CLEARLY fine making a few enemies in the process, (seriously they DO need a better PR manager) so with some oversight and funding I think a partnership would be fine.
One problem is the "open source project" is still their project, you cant sell it. We need an os from scratch, with none of their code.
Also manufacturers could just sell the phones without an os, to get around this, much like computers
That's not true. AOSP is mostly licensed under Apache License 2.0 which allows for commercial use and redistribution. The kernel is GPL v2 which also has no problem with it as long as you release your customized source code (although some manufacturers don't do this). There were cases of Android being preinstalled on devices without the Google stuff included.
Of course you can sell your for fork of Android if you abide by the license terms, Huawai does it and others do too.
Ok, if thats the case then how is google able to block manufacturers distribution of android, even if they were to follow licensing?
@@annybodykila technically it is not allowed to do it, but it just has the power pressure other companies.
Nothing about the Android Open Source Project license does allow it.
But if you want to ship your phone with Google Apps, which are separate from the Android OS, then Google can pressure you.
@@mx338 ok but were talking about phones that wont have google services, so?
I’ve never met you, but I truly love you for the positive force you are. Thank you!
"It can sandbox google framework".
...
THANK YOU
Comming on this ride with you.
Ooh, this is really tricky to overcome. Like you mentioned, the world runs on Android and Apple in terms of personal devices. Businesses, supply lines, communication -- either you burn everything from the top down or build something from the ground up. To me it seems they've become entrenched enough that any form of negotiation is going to be laughed at, with maybe a few table scraps tossed for amusement. (Kinda like the "repairability" of the iPhone 14).
Even with the FOSS community (hence all my Louis FOSSmann jokes), we make up but a tiny percentage of the world, so even if every last one of us got together using conventional means, we'd be little more than a drop in the bucket, maybe a puddle.
The average person doesn't like having to change or learn something new to get on with their everyday lives, and because everyone's comfortable with Apple and Android, that's the hold they have on society.
To me it seems if you even wanted a shot at taking a swing at the big guys, you would need an OS AND apps that were just as simple, reliable, predictable and usable as the ones currently used AND a phone that was accepted by all carriers that's just as chic, comfortable, reliable, dependable and (within a relatively short amount of time) popular as the current mainstream ones.
Not impossible, but damned hard without having skirmishes with corporate lawyers.
Where do you hit them where they're too cool to play ball? Price point. Make a phone as pretty and more reliable than a flagship and sell it for half the price.
But who's the best target audience? Which demographic would have the greatest impact in the long term?
Honest answer? Kids and young teens. Make a phone that's kid-friendly that their parents can afford and they can play around with and customize. If you can get a bunch of kids using the same platform, that's the one they'll prefer into adulthood, not to mention it'll be tied to nostalgia.
Because a lot of kids, both boys and girls, are getting into coding and practically know computers and touchscreens from birth, you'll have a generation that's much more likely to prefer customization. Once they hit late teens and early adulthood and switch to Google or Apple apps, they'll be like "this sucks, fucking dumbass boomer oligarchs".
Lol, obviously I'm thinking out loud and typing at the same time, so this may all be just a bunch of garbled nonsense, but the original point:
It's not impossible to overcome, but damned hard.
Just for a point of comparison: Not even Microsoft could get past Google and Apple. Remember Windows phone? Hahahahaha.
@@mjc0961 Oh man, now I do. Lol.
*Windows 8.0 PTSD Flashbacks.*
I think Google itself realized the demographic issue you brought up, when they started giving Chrome books to schools.
The biggest issue with getting some alternative OS adopted is app compatibility and inter-operability. You have to have something like WINE or Proton, or some kind of sandboxed emulator for Android apps. Maybe eventually people will start making native apps for your new OS, but you have to overcome that chicken and egg problem in the beginning.
@@DFPercush Agreed. That's a major hurdle. The smartphone/tablet OS race basically ended back in 2010/2011 with the two contenders we have today, and anything else that gets tossed into the ecosystem is viewed as niche or a pariah.
Perhaps another question to ask: If you can't dominate the current technology market, what about the future one? What comes after the smartphone?
Just like the current megacorporations have set up shop and created the ecosystem we have today (thereby having near-complete control), what's the uncharted territory in the future that could be claimed by someone else who's more liberty and privacy-minded? Or territories in the plural sense.
It's almost like we're the opening characters in Final Fantasy VII stuck in Midgar, and the Shinra just love harvesting that Mako that kills the planet.
Perhaps the way to stop the Shinra is to first leave Midgar altogether. Who knows?
@@r.b.ratieta6111 You may be right, it could take a leap in technology, rather than an incremental step in some numbers on a spec sheet, to entice people to move to something new. Something that provides a whole new physical capability. Unfortunately large corporations have large budgets, and most of the innovation these days is done on massive scales, at least when you're talking about cutting edge hardware. Organizing something like that with a group of FOSS developers and hobbyists is like trying to herd cats. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, freedom means variety, but it also means that you're not going to have a single solution become the borg and conquer the galaxy. Maybe we just have to accept that we are smaller in number and be satisfied with our choices and values.
Maybe we need to stop thinking about how to convince everyone else to switch over and just ask, what do we want for ourselves? Basically we want an open hardware platform that lets us install any software we want. In the case of Graphene, it has certain hardware requirements for security. The question is, can some manufacturer out there be convinced to design one that has similar functionality, with an unlocked boot loader? This can't be an impossible task. I don't think it's a technical challenge, I think it's a legal one. So perhaps the best recourse is to seek a judicial or political solution. Whatever it is in their contract that says they have to lock the bootloader and not allow alternative OSes, we have to make the case that that's an anti consumer practice and get it tossed. What does the manufacturer care, they just want to sell you the hardware. I suspect they would be as happy to have access to the huge mobile market without restrictions, as we would to buy it.
Could you make a video about how google is forcing through the new Manifest v3 protocol for Chrome extensions? Bogus reasoning they use is for increased security but we all know it has the convienent effect of nuking effective content blockers like uBlock Origin
Louis Rossmann has been missing for several days. He was last known to be investigating Google.
Gasp! Google doing bad things? I would never have guessed.
Hey Louis. Have you produced any videos covering unlocking bootloaders and why it can be so difficult. I don't understand how in some cases the phone manufacturer cannot provide an unlock but some shady looking website claims to unlock the bootloader for a small fee. Are the shady websites legit or do they have access to software / techniques mere morals do not have??
Third party bootloader unlocking relies on exploiting security flaws in the device. Almost certainly most of those websites are going to be "legit" in that they will probably unlock the bootloader, but the problem is trusting them to only unlock the bootloader and not include some additional unwanted software.
@@bosstowndynamics5488 Thank you for explaining this.
What do you think of checking out the PinePhone series?
Do you trust China any more than the US?
It sucks
Not a consumer ready device.
Thank you for looking into it.
I'll keep watching and hoping
One thing we need to keep in mind.. you need to log into your Google account before you can unlock the bootloader so BigG will always know the identity of a phone's serial/ IMEI
You could make a random account but you're right yeah
You can skip logging in on Android setup... You don't even need to connect to the internet. The only exception is if the phone was wiped while connected to a google account.
@@zekicay not for me.. I have a pixel 5a on graphene, if you unlock the bootloader it will relock on reboot if no Google account is signed in
@@definingslawek4731 where are you gonna get the phone number to authenticate the account with?
@@bravohomie Oh yeah, forgot they added that to making a google account, they might have patched it but I remember it's possible to make a google account by making a youtube account, and it won't prompt you for a phone number.
While GrapheneOS is the most popular rom(that is the term generally used in the community, not fork) there are also other projects for non pixel phones for example:
The /e/OS project by the e foundation; they also sell de-googled phones by Murena
LineageOS which is the most popular rom and their team supports many older phones
EvolutionX
PixelExperience
PixelExperiencePlus
HavocOS
ArrowOS
Bliss
CorvusOS and many more
If your phone is any popular it most likely is supported by one or more of those roms, you just got to look for them. The only problem being that they don't have verified boot, but that's the manufacturers' fault not the developers'. I believe phones sold by the e foundation have verified boot but don't quote me on that.
Anyways there are options, you just have to look for them.
and I believe most bootloaders can be unlocked via adb and fastboot
you go .. love to see the corrupt awnser!! it must be insane what they do!.. / a samsung android user!
I’m looking forward to this journey down the rabbit hole
If you keep the software open source but create a blockage on the hardware side, does the software cease to be open source?
Okay. But none of that information makes me willing to give up the headphone jack and full size unmutilated screen so I can run GrapheneOS. 🤷♂
Also it's worth noting that Microsoft appealed and eventually basically won that anti-trust lawsuit. They had to share APIs and let some people look at code for 5 years. Just about the lightest slap on the wrist possible. It's pretty inaccurate to say Microsoft got in trouble for anything in the 90s. Which makes Google getting away with it make a lot more sense.
_Okay. But none of that information makes me willing to give up the headphone jack and full size unmutilated screen so I can run GrapheneOS._
Me either. It makes me want to find a manufacturer willing to make them, with a headphone jack & microsd card slot, & challenge Google if it ever turns into a court case as a piece of anti-trust litigation.
....and livestream us winning it to their own platform.
that would be the ideal way it works out. kinda like when you see someone beautiful and have this entire thing flash before your eyes, how you ask them out, first date, meeting their parents, marriage, kids, your 50th yr wedding anniversary etc. and in 5 seconds your daydream ends and they look at you and go _"who are you looking at weirdo?"_
but this isn't a daydream!
or that's what I tell myself....
@@rossmanngroup what is this analogy
@@rossmanngroup This is us hoping that you won't fail off the bat
@@rossmanngroup Could it be possible that if you put all the examples of big tech taking advantage of everyone, there might be a chance of getting someone to recognize just how bad things have gotten and bring some kind of class action against them as a whole? some examples that come to mind quickly are
Microsoft colluding with hardware manufacturers to force obsolescence by killing off older OS support with new processors. ie you cant run windows 7 on any intel CPU past 7th gen.
Apple forcing customers to use icloud if they want to take advantage of certain convenience services, and then make it so you have to pay for it cause the free threshold is not actually viable for a phone backup.
i am really fed up with microsoft, they will not let you uninstall any apps they deem necessary, and force updates when i am not looking, and losing unsaved work. i do not like installing latest updates as they have been known to ruin peoples computers. i use my computer to make money through design apps, and microsoft is making it hard to be a power user these days. power users were what help make windows great right up to WIN7. windows had flexibility, and could be trimmed down, and modified to suit individual needs. now its a bloated shit sack that i am forced to use since i own software like solidworks.
Why not just use a headphone-jack-to-USB-C dongle?
Money buys justice.
MS was investigated for requiring stores to bundle windows and their browser with any pc purchase, it was said to be "anti-competitive".
Oh boy, oh boy.
Google Google Google off with their heads off with their heads off with their heads
You are doing a highly valuable job for us, thank you! :)
Thanks Louis!
It’s the politicians, they cannot serve their constituents without finding a loophole, tax incentive, relaxed regulations for corporations that donate and lobby the heck out of them. The pot is too sweet with enough conflicts of interest for politicians to do the right thing. And what’s worse is that these politicians legislate under the pretense that they are working in the interest of the people. the United States isn’t alone on that, countries like the UK, Australia and much of the EU have this problem and they act like they are Democratic and uncorrupted.
There are also people who don't want to buy a phone more than $350.
I appreciate the work you do. I really want a full featured device that I can upgrade to easily by popping in the SD card from the old phone and keeping most of my stuff. Including a headphone jack since I have a lot of older devices that don't support bluetooth.
Now let's see you do it for cars!!! And bring back mechanical connections to the driver!
Kick their asses, Louis.
Hey Louis - That info is much appreciated & I look forward to hearing more about what you find out! 👍
Privacy is going to be the fastest growing sector.
More on this please! 👍😎👍
I always learn something new. Love your channel!
Great video. Looking forward to the part II!
Thank you for doing the work looking into it and maybe pushing back - we need people like you. Most of us are lazy/busy
I would like to hear a lawyers opinion on this. You would think that once the court has issued a fine, then doing the same thing again would be contempt and have serious implications.