Let's Talk About Jiu-Jitsu As A Business - Kama Vlog
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2018
- Let's have a frank talk about how the jiu-jitsu business works.
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Flossy Carter!
My BJJ academy in NYC charges 350 a month.
I got to train for free as a teen in exchange for cleaning the gym and running errands for the academy.
Yes, it costs more than Marcelos or Renzos or any other gym in the city but the student to instructor ratio makes learning way quicker. Very often at nights well have 1:1 ratio of instructors to students. Imagine splitting private lessons with a friend 3-4 times a week and quickly this starts to make sense in value.
Artur mushin?
I wouldn't generalize with that 100 per month figure meaning bad quality. There are some areas where home prices are low translating into inexpensive commercial rents, not so great economy, where that $100 has the equivalency of $150 or higher somewhere else. I actually trained a year in 1 of those kinds of city and the bjj level was very high. It was a purely sport school, which isnt my cup of tea but for what they did they developed a small team of about 10 guys that could go into any tournament big or small and have most of those 10 guys medal even against huge well known teams. Heck even the non competition guys were very good at thier respected belt levels as compared to other big name and expensive places ive trained at.
the numbers were hypothetical.
Sorry my bad Ryan. i was being a dodo
Lol, np.
If you don´t allow your students to go somewhere else, you seem to be afraid of loosing them due to lack of quality. Grappling lives and growths through exchange of ideas and knowledge. Sometimes you don´t even need another coach, but you can learn A LOT from sparring with other training partners due to different body types, tactics and techniques.
agree, sounds like a lot of insecurities from the old school instructors that still have that sort of mentality.
I pay $110 a month to be trained by a black belt world champion who is now a coral belt. He has multi world champions he has trained. We do have a lot of students because people drive from hour away to train with him
What change are you referencing?
@@KamaJiuJitsu I was actually going come back and change my comment after practice today, before I saw you replayed. I ask why our prices are what they are, and was told that some people (guessing myself) pay a bit less because we signed up right when the gym opened. As well as lower prices because we live in an area that is a bit cheaper
One big determinant of tuition costs is the cost to run a business in the area. If rent and taxes and other costs on the business are high, prices will be high, most likely.
Great video. It's great for students to see the other point of view. Imagine going to work and not getting paid what you are worth.
I would for sure pay you guys... No BS....The Real Deal !!!!!!!!
Disagree. I train under a black belt world champion and he’s generous enough to offer $100/mon unlimited classes in SoCal
You’re lucky!
I pay $60 a month. My previous school was $55 a month under an Andre Galvao black belt. Just FYI whats out there
My school has some judo too, Tuesday nights is judo and self defense night. We learned a couple of throws last night and a couple wrist locks. Then we rolled.
I paid 80 a month for a hole in the wall in the Mohave desert and it was the best Jiu jujitsu academy I have ever been to. Currently Im paying 185 for a prestigious well known school that creates world champions. The school that I was paying 80 for was better. Its weird.
Nice to hear your opinions. I've definitely discussed this topic in your youtube comments before, but never thought Jiu Jitsu should be cheaper or more like Judo. Always happy to pay for BJJ when I can afford it, and like training in dedicated facilities rather than community sports centres and throwing mats down. :) The cheap and cheerful ways of Judo are nice when you're a broke music student though.
Great video
For my family to train jiu-jitsu, i'm estimating it would cost me $1000 a month. That's 1/3 of what I make a month.
Shit that'd leave me with 200 dollars for the month
All right when I trained Judo my teacher charged me $35 a month he was a retired vet and basically just ran it dojo for fun. Thats was back in 2000 mind you.
No I've moved to a larger City and the prices are kind of ridiculous I think.
Anyway it's looking like it's going to be $300 at the gym that I'm kind of looking at for me my wife and any children we have together which is kind of Awesome.
Try to see if they have a family deal to save money. I have not shopped around to get the best deal for your money. Or you learn it and teach it to your family. Once you get the training. And see if you have a house get some mats to train at home after you learn it
You need to talk to different gyms. I guarantee they will give you a family deal. Everyone I know who has a family gets a good deal.
I pay 85 for 2/w morning classes(fits my budget and schedule) and sometimes I feel bad for paying for it, it's a high priority for something I love but not a high priority if I'm being honest.
I'm hoping to start like a Gracie Garage or something.
Talking about ya boy Floss? :D
Yeeeeah, boy!
cross training is not as much about the classes and different instructors. It's more about different sparring partners and getting different looks, feels, styles, & body types especially from people that don't know your game and you don't know theirs.
It's just like playing basketball at a different park or gym to play with different people.
Another great video Ryan. Keep it up! Hey I'm going to be in Dallas area for work around Feb 6-7th. Would love to drop by, watch a class, and check out your new location. Hope to see you there!
i'll be teaching both evenings. see you there.
OSS
Weird I paid 70$ a month for my jiujitsu class and I became a blue belt world champion in 2&1/2years. And I live in saturated ass San Diego CA.
We have had some people leave and go to competition schools because all they want to do is roll and we are self defense focused. We tell them to go for it if that's what they want! I would say about half come back after a couple months. I think letting students go to other schools is good because they can see there is actually a difference in the way we teach compared to others.
I live in a more lowcome area and 100 is a lot for me but it's he most expensive school there is to learn jiu jitsu and judo. There isn't really any other schools around where I live
Also you got to think that the standards for income very drastically depending on what region you're in in the country.
I went to an elite school and their program was just ok. Don’t wanna name the school b/c I don’t want to offend Kama ;)
We don’t get offended. That’s a choice.
I never saw it that way. Being new I went toCA and still wanted to learn/be involved. Even now I still think If I traveled why not continue to excel.(non local) With that bring said I felt a student wanted to test themselves or represent thier school so when they role they might be different than expected. I learned from a fellow student thats what he liked about competing.(unknown) Now I have to think about it. My professor is also a vet and trained while traveling so I didn't think of it in a bad way,until now. I did ask before and he gave me an ok to visit an affilate school but I'll ask. At 40 I guess my mind isnt focused on this cause its not my intent but I don't know about other interpretation. Learning occured.
Another good video!! Sometimes I sit and do the math and I've figured that if someone has a school in Southern California,,, not even in a high end place, and that's their only source of income they have to bring in at least 7000 to 8000 a month just to have a lower middle class lifestyle, as far as training in other schools or visiting I've talked to my son ( he trains, I don't) about it. Like everyone else he has a set amount of hours of "free time" a week., plus there is just a physical limit on how many hours you can reasonably put in. His academy covers those hours easily, so he really has no reason to go elsewhere.
Where i live there is 1 gym that does 2 beginnerd and 2 advanced sessions a week and the other one is a muay thai gym that only does it once. I wish i lived in an area that all these guys saying just train whenever you can.
for many years, until very recently, that's how Kama Jiu-Jitsu was. is this school near you a school run by the professor as a hobby/side business? if you can fit it into your schedule, that may still be a good situation for you. we've taught/created some talented practitioners on a schedule like that.
It would be cool to see jiujitsu de-commercialized to an extent. Like Ryan said; “it’s a hobby” [to some]... for example some ppl play basketball at the park with strangers or neighbors, but they aren’t charging. Just a thought.
And how many of them are willing to teach 100 “students” 5x/wk, week in and week out? You can bet for damn sure he’s gonna start requiring some cash at that point.
Love the Elliott reference.
what's the elliott reference?
Wasn’t that a reference in the behind g to Yo Elliot (Hulse)?
listen to the first 5 seconds of this. czcams.com/video/hii8y1r0FxY/video.html
Kama Jiu-Jitsu I was talking about this guy czcams.com/video/oBmDKWa7UbA/video.html. First 10 seconds or so.
never heard of him.
My gym cost $100 a month and its a great self defense driven community of people and instructors. My instructors got his black belt directly from Master Joe Moreaira who got his from Grandmaster Mansor. I think as far as price goes beginner jiu jitsu practitioner just want to go to a great and inviting community with quality instruction and not completely break their wallet
Joe Moreira got his black belt from GM Reylson Gracie.
You have an old school way of thinking, glad to see your way of thinking going away. It’s like greedy judo
Im glad to pay just 30€ per month
Think about this. If Rickson had a big school that people could go to (Like Gracie Torrence). And asked you to pay $200/month and you got Rickson himself.....would you pay it? Of course, you would. Why? Because the VALUE is there. If you are getting the value like I'm sure you would at a place like Kama Jiu-Jitsu, then just pay the investment. I used to own and operate multiple super successful schools in Alabama. We had nearly 1000 members with our BASE Price being $200. This was also in a small town with just over 25k population. People came and stayed because we gave them much much more than what they were paying for. Stop hunting the cheap stuff, and think more about what you are getting than the cost.
Thank you for this.
Would you mind contacting us at KamaJiuJitsu@gmail.com when you have time?
Quality cost.
Don't over price Training.
The people that want to train will pay if they can afford it...
some ppl will teach for inexpensive price because they want a threshold of money, say 120k, not just "as much as possible" and 2) they love spreading their art (bjj)
or because that's just what they're worth (if even that much).
Wait... Judo is free??? I pay $150 a month for Judo 🤔
When I trained judo I paid $45-$65. It's probably higher than that now. I'd guarantee it is ha.
I trained under Kyu Ha Kim. The youngest person to receive the 9th degree black belt in judo. Mr Kim is a good guy. Wish I could see video of his competitions in his heyday.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyu_Ha_Kim
my first judo school in HI as a kid was FREE. the next one as an adult in SoCal was maybe $80/mo.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu I always hear people say judo is a non-profit martial art. Why is that if people pay to learn judo?
maybe our judo sensei Dean will kick in a comment on this...
sienna three exactly but the $150 a month I’m paying is used as an income stream and is not being put back for anything. Nothing wrong with that in my eyes, it’s a business. I respect it.
So I just started ju jitsu with my 2 kids also krav maga with my wife ...Were thinking of starting a brazilian jiu jitsu and krav maga academy later on in 12 years....My question for you is I can't afford physically and to train both....Should I let my 2 kids get black belt in bjj and me and wife stick with krav maga...
Well, i guess it depends. One thing to note, is that just because you have a dream for your kids to open and run a certain business, doesn’t mean THEY will want to do that in 12 years.
@KamaJiuJitsu Actually it was my 13 year old son idea not mine ...My 11 year old daughter already said she will help but not full time...Is it a hard business to make a profit not looking to get rich but obviously need to make money say 8k net profit or 6 k after paying rent ..
I wish my kids wanted to run an academy! Based on your net profit requirements, it’s relatively easy to then crunch the numbers.
@KamaJiuJitsu How does it work, you get your black belt in BJJ and open up a dojo under the person that you got your belt from, like do you have to get permission? Thanks for talking. Also I'm not sure if I asked but my kids did Judo on and off for 4 years and I'm wondering if Judo helps better round out there new BJJ with breaking grips, take downs..Is it worth going back ...
Ok we've talked before in text.... New question, I'm 44 and if you were my age just starting out as a white belt BJJ with few world class seminars I attended....Would you if your my age do a BJJ business in 10 years at 55- 56 ..Or would you choose a different route 🤔 My wife is interested in teaching pilates and kick boxing and ladies self-defense like chokes from behind and rape prevention etc
Yo, do you train in Phoenix???
We don’t have a campus in Phoenix.
I really like your videos, very down to earth and interesting to hear the gist of jiu-jitsu from your perspective. Not being someone who trains in jiu-jitsu but being a blackbelt in isshinryu it’s hard to grasp the whole proffessor term instead of Sensi. I see the ranking system is basically based off martial arts and perception is that it is a martial art, so why have you gone away from it? I don’t mean any disrespect just curious, I have the utmost respect for the art and the dedication you have. Osh
I was told that in Brazil, the term “Professor” = the same as “teacher” in America. It doesn’t have the same cache as the word “Professor” does in the US.
“Gone away from it?” Gone away from what? Sorry, just trying to clarify.
Sorry maybe I worded that wrong and don’t know much about the history. Very curious thought. Has bjj always used the term professor? I know it’s just a word and the respect level is the same as when we say Sensi or master. Does that make sense?
Yes on Professor. “Mestre” is 7th and 8th Degree Red/black belt. Grand Mestre for 9th Degree red belt.
Ok, thank you for your time and great job on your videos.
lmao were you imitating Flossy Carter? :D
DING DING DING DING!!!
the big reason is Judo is an Olympic sport so is state funded, state funded BJJ would reduce prices as well which would be great but that's not the reality unfortunately
State pricing would lower the price for BJJ? Not sure where you get that belief from. Everything the government offers to the public can be offered at a lower price by private entities. BJJ could have been an Olympic sport. The issue has to do with control. There is no way the IBJJGF will relinquish it’s control to the IOC. I certainly would not relinquish that control if I were running the IBJJGF, myself. The Olympics have ruined judo and taekwondo.
@@KamaJiuJitsu if their was subsidies which helped cover the over heads for gyms or paid the infrastructures then fees would obviously be lower because coaches wouldn't need to charge as much to make a living. This is how countless other sports operate but sports like amateur boxing and Judo get this funding because governments want to invest in Olympic sports. A non Olympic sport example ran this way would be the GAA in Ireland, our national game, the state heavily funds it because it's part of our national heritage which means coaches get paid and people tain for free or very little cost. Theres no way that situation would exist without government funding. I'd personally love BJJ to be like that so more people could experience this great sport
and where does the "state" get their money from? not sure where you are, but once the US government decided to provide financial "aid" (taken from the taxpayers) to college students to help them "afford" college, guess what happened? the universities who were charging $2000/yr for a college education began charging $20,000/yr for the same education because the students came in with all this government funded financial aid.
the same thing will happen to BJJ if that were the case. instead of $200/mo, it'll be $2000/mo.
@@KamaJiuJitsu people pay taxes, to fund services. America isn't a good example to use, a better example would be anywhere in Europe. France for example state funded universities that only cost the student a few hundred euros a year., It's very easy to have state funding without it massively increasing prices
and when they raise something as insignificant as fuel taxes, they get a revolt. i wonder if it's because other taxes are so onerously high, that even a rise in taxes on fuel will break someone financially.
yes, use France as an example of a country who is doing things better than the USA, where taxes make everything more expensive for the average citizen...
uh, no, thank you. there's no free lunch. even if something is "free" to you, it had to be paid for by someone else. i'll bust my ass working and pay my own way, thank you very much.
Judo sport version of jits with limit rules but j8ts gettin wTer down also
Hey Ryan... what’s yours thoughts on this... I’m going to be training under a great grappler, who’s trained under a lot of good people, and people who have trained under him have done really well (I.E. Spencer Paige from the ultimate fighter). I’ll be learning 95% Jiu Jitsu, but techniquely it’s not Jiu Jitsu and the instructor doesn’t even really have a belt in Jiu Jitsu
Sounds like a great opportunity.
I've never understood this mindset regarding cheap or free jiu-jitsu training or even free martial arts training for that matter. People act like we live in some kind of communist country with state-sponsored sports programs where they're entitled to free instruction. The martial arts aren't a charity. Most people that earn their black belts did so by spending thousands of dollars and possibly 10-15 years or so to get there. That's more schooling than some doctors go through. Jiu-Jitsu instructors should be charging top dollar for their instruction.
You make a general statement about schools that charge less than $100 per month. You don't live in my area. The market here will only allow so much. I charge $80 per month at my school. I'm a purple belt who has been training Gracie Jiu-jitsu for 18 years. The other school in my town has a 1 stripe black belt and charges $125 per month. Cost of living here is very low and so are wages.
it was just a round number i used. but realistically, as it is here and everywhere else, it only makes sense that a black belt can command a higher price than a non-black belt. but yes, every market is different.
Agreed. My rent is also very cheap because I split it with 3 other instructors.
Three other instructors? How do you split up time slots?
We have two mat spaces. I run my classes on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. There is a Kenpo Karate class during mine on the smaller mat area. Same days. The other two (Aikido and Shotokan) I have no idea about their time slots.
Question: I'm a big guy and I'm having trouble finding A Give that fits right, either the top will be right but the pants too small. If I buy a Gi by the chart maybe the top will swallow me up but the pants will fit but too long, any suggestions?
Find a good tailor. Or, some gi companies allow you to mix and match.
@@KamaJiuJitsu thank you
Hang on... i'm only 1:50 into the video and already you're talking about $100, without saying over how long??! Is that per lesson? Per week? Per month?
Come on... I know some people will charge that much for 1 on 1 lesson... I can definitely imagine $100/week and even per month.. So...
i feel like you could have done this in 5 mins....
Incidentally, or if it interests you. I left my school because i couldn't afford it anymore... At the same time, i never made an effort to earn more or cut other costs, so I could go back because of the way the instructor treated students... There was no doubt that he was VERY skilled but he had horrible people-skills. He would humiliate students in front of others..... I also always felt like he gave instruction in such tiny doses it was painfulll... E.g You would be rolling and he'd be watching... You do something.. he shakes his head and walks off.... I was dumbfounded... Instead of shaking your head, tell us what we were doing wrong!
In Judo you can get great teachers for cheap because the instructors have the support of the nonprofit. Because Judo organizations want people who can benefit from Judo to have access regardless of whether they have unlimited access to funds. Whereas in BJJ they approach it like scientology. They want famous people with more money to increase marketing for the cult. Judo is about spreading the art, so Judo teachers share something they love. BJJ practitioners want money and power more than they want to share the art they're supposed to love.
You’re ignorant of free market concepts, it seems.
you don't think that the largest JUDO clubs are often the for profit ones? judo senseis are human, just like BJJ professors; time is valuable, and if i'm to go through all the extra effort to teach as many people as possible, money needs to be exchanged. many judo clubs got started in buddhist hongwanjis. maybe twice a week. that amount of time, while cheap to the judo sensei, doesn't create judo "monsters." in order to do that, students need to be able to train 7days a week. what buddhist temple will allow that? none will. as a result, the sensei needs to lease a location. how much will that cost? depends on where. in SoCal, try $7K-$10K/mo, just for the location. so in your mind, the judo sensei will be willing to not generate a profit to "share something they love?" you're delusional.
The majority of Judo schools are nonprofit though. Luckily there are a lot of good instructors out their who see teaching as their calling. To each their own. Nothing wrong with making money. Lawyers make money, but they also do pro bono work. Judo instructors going into community centers has improved some of the worst neighborhoods I've seen. You can do good in the world, you can line your pockets, you can even do both. But you really want to say that the only way to get good instruction is to be born rich? Come on.
The Dalai Lama once said something along the lines of "if you want to pick a guru go for a drive with them." That's where you see the temper come out. Anyone that takes issue with profit over people is "delusional?" Dude.
Dude, if you want something, do something. I wasn’t born rich. Had a single mom who worked as a bookkeeper her whole career, earning just enough to keep me fed, clothed, and with a roof over my head. I paid for my own training. How? I worked two part time jobs while in college and detailed “rich people’s” cars on weekends.
You assume that for profit schools don’t do things for their communities. In fact, it’s their very for profit nature that allows them to make concessions for those truly in need.
The most successful judo schools are largely for profit.
Hello Flossy Carter also known as Ryan haha
that guy cracks me up.
You watch Bloodboxing ?!!?
What’s that?
Oh my bad, I thought he was the CZcamsr you were
talkin' about
He starts his vid the same way
Flossy Carter
Be a BJJ globetrotter it's easier ;)
I agree with most of your video but I think you’re a bit inconsistent. I see why a high level professor would justify a high monthly rate but at the same time if you see teaching Jiu Jitsu as a hobby and charge a lot of $ then it seems to me like you’re doing your students a poor service.
Then to teach Jiu-Jitsu as a hobby, I need to do it for free (or cheap) out of my garage?
No, of course not. If you’re providing a service then you should charge whatever you want and the market will tell you if it’s too low or too high. My point is that I’d first go to a doctor who practices for a living before I’d go to one that does it for a hobby.
I dunno... we’re pretty damn dood here... and Kermit Gosnell was a full time “doctor.”
I don’t doubt that you kick @ss and teach great Jiu Jitsu, I’ve found your videos helpful since I’ve started training. I would just tell you that taking an extreme case to argue a very general point is not effective.
"... if you see teaching Jiu Jitsu as a hobby and charge a lot of $ then it seems to me like you’re doing your students a poor service."
Lol Comedy. Jiu Jitsu Came from Judo. LOL
i can throw you everyday....
No you can't. Not if I decide to double leg your ass into the ground.
Flossy? Lol
On a scale from 1 to 10, this is a major, major, major go!
@@KamaJiuJitsu haha major floss factor ;)