The BEST Superman story ever! | All-Star Superman
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- All-Star Superman is a twelve-issue American comic book series featuring Superman that was published by DC Comics. The series ran from November 2005 to October 2008. The series was written by Grant Morrison, drawn by Frank Quitely, and digitally inked by Jamie Grant. DC claimed that this series would "strip down the Man of Steel to his timeless, essential elements" Buy it here: amzn.to/2fborYG Never miss an episode by subscribing today! bit.ly/2WYvgkt #superman
ComicPop is a few friends talking about comic books. The ComicPop team brings a bunch of unique points of view to every single discussion about a comic book, graphic novel, character or story arc. You can find full conversations about your favorite titles from Marvel and DC Comics, plus a few pretty key independent comics. If you're looking for a long, funny conversation about Batman or a deep dive into why Spider-Man is so neurotic, check out the hours and hours of amusing, insightful and downright stupid conversations about some of your favorite comic books over the years. If you're a longtime comic book reader or just starting out, make sure to subscribe right now!
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You guys completely skipped over the part in the book where Superman stops this kid from committing suicide. For me, that was one of the most touching moments I've ever read in a comic book.
Yeah, we don't have time for everything.
Easily the best part, though.
Why give away the farm? They're just giving you a taste. No need to rob people of touching moments to experience themselves.
My guy spoilers
Assholes
*Clark removes glasses*
"Superman you have to help me, Clark was talking to me and just disappeared!"
Oh comic book logic, I love you.
so fun fact, the clark kent thing? dissonance between recognising identities? not as crazy as it seems. It's less likely to work on someone who interacts with you a lot and gets a clear look at your face, but you'd be suprised how often it actually works. It's like seing a guy dressed as santa at a halloween party, you don;t think 'santa' or even 'off-duty mall santa' because it's so out of place it's funny, so you assume it's a joke. if your dad suddenly claimed to be a teacher at your school after a few years of NOT being one, and said that they'd always been one, even if it was a teacher you never saw or looked kind lof like them, you probably wouldn't believe it.
Famously, tom cruise filmed himself working as a courier for weeks to prepare for his role in "Collateral", Maryln munroe held an interview in broad daylight walking down the street, groucho marx once showed up to an expactant crowd having forgotten his moustache and eyebrow makeup and mel gibson once showed of to an interviwer by 'turning off the charm' at a DMV. in all of these cases, they went completely unnoticed, and unrecognise, Tom cruise and Mel gibson even went as far as to have long conversations with random people, and it still didn't break the illusion.
Munroe even illustrated why to her interviewer; the people wer so used to associating Marlyn munroe with her over-the-top outfits, makeup and mannerisms that no one saw her until she started strutting and swaying her hips like in the film, which she did and got recognised right awayHeck Clark himself was based on a real actor (among other things), who gave the same story, his glasses were so tied into his character that no-one recognised him when he took them of.
To REALLY bring this all together, one of the promotions they did for man of steel was for Henry Cavill to stand under a billboard of his own face, wearing glasses (and a superman shirt) and wait for someone to recognise or talk to him. they filmed the whole thing from multiple angles and no-one approached him, slowed down or took a picture at all.
In this book, they go to a lot of effort to draw clark and superman as different people, with superman being tall, confident and graceful, while clark hunches, re-adjusts his spine and shoulders, speaks differently and avoids looking people in the face. Grant Morrison also added an extra layer in that his glasses are pieces of the ship he came to earth on, which disguise his super-humanly blue and piercing eyes. Clark's eyes, filtered through the glasses, thus become dull and look distorted, and by adjusting his jaw his face becomes a lot rounder as well which costs him his distinctive chin. so by removing the cheeks, chin, eyes and hair and completely re-arranging the body structure so the muscle seems to droop into fat, the ends result is clark looks like he MIGHT be around the same size as superman if you could get them next to each other.
A big part of this is the fact that while we probably WOULD see through it if enough attention is drawn to it, and we have the right context, we do not have perfect awareness of our surroundings at all times and out thoughts generally cannot stop on a dime and switch directions unless forced to. for example, talking to someone who's not there because a)you forget who you're talking to, b) they remind you of that person and you slip up, or c) they walked off and you don't notice. even if you swear it wouldn;t happen to yo, you probably know some people who would have experienced it. It's a side effect of our learning object permanance and ability to learn from past events, by filling in the things we don;t see from those events we become blind to change
@@danielwilson8604the thing about his glasses dulling the color of his eyes is from Superman Birthright by Mark Waid not Morrison and it wasnt a piece of the ship it was just regular glasses
I've never cared for DC comics outside of the JLA and Batman cartoons but these Superman stories have a lot of heart. I can understand now why so many fans were pissed off at the Man of Steel movie.
Superman literally became all star.
Hey now, you’re an All Star! Get your cape on, save the day!
Superman finally reached his true potential
I think that was intentional.
Only shooting stars break the mold
There was a Ray Bradbury short story from back when i was a kid, in the Pre-Cambrian era, called "The Golden Apples of the Sun." The science research team is assigned to go to the Sun and pick up a sample of the sun's material, who are the Giant ladle external to the ship. In the opening words, the Captain orders a command, "South, south!" He explains that in the old days, when ships are going towards the Sun, they went South. Has he get closer to the Sun more and more things go wrong, parts of the ship start bringing down, people die, but in the end they get their container of sun stuff and turn around to go back to Earth. The last thing the commander says is, North! North!
And the name of the spaceship in this first episode of All Star Superman? The Bradbury.
North!
"You're all Robin, now." It's a joke, and it's hilarious...but tell me that isn't something straight out of a Grant Morrison fanfic rewrite of The Dark Knight Returns.
Also now there's We are Robin which is basically that.
You know there is a pretty solid theory that gives you the ending you want. The theory goes that after Luthor realizes the error of his ways actually goes back in time and becomes Dr. Leo Quintum, the Super scientist we've never seen before who is helping superman the whole story. It's super Morrison and I love it. Then again I know you guys really dislike the meta side of his comics.
Haha dude I've been addicted to ur channel for the past two days
Thanks, Adam! Hope you enjoy!
same but a decade later
+ComicPOP @ComicPOP fun fact Al Star Superman is a prequel to DC 1million. a story that was made in the 90s during morrisons run. basically, superman who went in the sun became superman prim, basically a solar god in that sense. check the story out.
There is some evidence to support that Superman doesn't die at the end. In DC One Million (written by Morrison as well) superman has lived inside the sun for about 10,000 years and comes out as a Golden Sun God who basically has the powers of god. This story is basically Morrison tying together the continuity of the stories he's written.
"Golden Sun God" isn't all too accurate. Try "Gold-Skinned, Ying-yang Jesus"
Tigger Trigger You,are right sir!🤙
Out of all the All Stars books, I would have to say my favorite is *All Star Green Lantern*. The reason you've never heard of it? It was written by Alan Moore. When he heard it was going to be a part of a series with other writers, he was like:
*"This is all rubbish, and all of you corporate sell outs should bugger off, and Alan-Moore-bullshit, Alan-Moore-bullshit, not a part of the system, Alan-Moore-BS, Alan-Moore-BS, look at my rings, Alan-Moore-BS, Alan-Moore-BS."* ;)
Just Some Guy with a Mustache Is there any way to read All-Star GL? Because I really haven't heard about it. So, I'd love to somehow read it. :)
Ritesh N Legend has it that Alan Moore pulled everything having to do with his *All-Star Green Lantern* from every source ever.
+Just Some Guy with a Mustache Kayfabe!!!
then more Alan Moore shit
Just Some Guy with a Mustache This would've been funny if you actually thought of something to write, not just "Alan Moore BS".
Sal, This is connected to the Superman Dynasty, where Superman leaves Earth and goes into the sun, and outlives all his friends, he leaves the book to clone him, creating Superman Secundus starting the Superman Dynasty. Then, 10,000 years later, he comes out of the sun, as Superman 1,000,000 aka the Golden God.
nerdicus Thank you, Nerdicus. I was aware of the other stories but not that they were actually interconnected. I prefer this concept to the others, and like to look at it as a separate story, but you're right-- there's more to the story according to Morrison.
TV Little House Comics Yeah, Hopefully you do a Back Issues on DC One Million!
+NerdPro that makes no fucking sense whatsoever
Chris Hall well, that's Grant Morrison for you......
I thought Superman one million was just the Superman of that time period and that the Superman that lived in the sun and returned golden was refered to as Superman prime.
Looks like Samson and Atlas have appeared in Superman #112 and in Action comics#320 according to the search i did.... could be incorrect but looks legit.
I really like this format. You explain the book BUT you get the feedback from Ben and Ethan. It's more enjoyable especially for us who have read the book. Get to hear you guys reactions and thoughts. I don't know why you don't have a lot more subscribers. Keep it up! You guys are becoming my fav channel to watch!
Thank you, man! That really means a lot. It's part of why I love the show so much. I think it appeals to fans and non-comics readers because everybody gets some representation. Plus, when the book is dynamite you really see a reaction, like you said. - Sal
"I'm GoInG tO kIlL hEr WiTh My MaN mEaT...." 13:02
So I love how on point Sal was with DC doing a lex superman in a couple of years. LOL
The Super Scientist, Leo Quintum I think, has the cost cause Joseph was a dreamer and interpreter of dreams. I think that's the connection, that quantum is the ultimate dreamer.
I love every time someone mentions #gettingphysicalwithethan. I feel like a comics writer who added a small but well liked detail to the mythos. It was there before me. It will be there after me. But I helped and I'm happy everyone gets a kick out of it. Another great episode guys. Thanks.
P.S. Got my postcard, Sal. Really great. :)
Also, I've always had that theory about Superman being a plant. Always thought it would be cool if Lex Luthor brought in Pamela Isely to help him better understand a living plant-person and how to hinder his photosynthesis.
Maybe not "survive", but certainly be "super".
When running down the various Lois Lanes, no love for Teri Hatcher?
She's my favorite live-action Lois, actually.
YES!!! I seriously love you guys, so glad I found you by accident! Best comic talk on CZcams!
Thank you, Yugi!
I agree!
superman in the sun is also a throwback to his start as a defender of the lower/working class. and DC ONE Million is like a direct sequel to All-Star and he does come back for Lois
The two kryptonian that show up are dying because they traced Kal-El's Rocket's path to Earth. That path was full of KRYPTONITE particles so they end up having Kryptonite poisoning.
In the comic, Sup actually talked to Jor-El who tell him that he isn't dying, he's evolving becoming pure energy
40:56 As a northern Mexican I could not help but to chuckle at that logo, There is an official University in my state that legitimately uses it for their high-school team with no legal repercussions yet XD. Also the Chicago bears logo for the engineering college.
Lex Luthor got the Super serum from one of supermans robot that he hacked in the Fortress..Early in the book, Superman had the robot sent to repair because he was malfunctioning. We find out later that it was malfunctioning because of Luthor
you know rewatching this episode and hearing the part at the end about dc doing superior superman with lex is even funnier considering what's happening in rebirth with lex wearing the superman s and stuff haha
+Tony Fulgoni lol Thank you for this, Tony
ComicPOP hah no problem
Subscribed! Love the back issues series. And Superman is alive at the end only because of Superman Prime (which is Clark) visiting his father's grave, meaning that he survived his imminent death by just continuing to absorb Sun radiation. Plus the storyline could be thought to continue in DC one million.
I like this Morrison/Quitely collab better than New X-Men, mainly because it's a more confined story. Can't wait for the eventual New X-Men Back Issues nonetheless.
Bought trade count since I started watching Back Issues: 21
This video proved to me that at the end of the day fuzzy background noise doesn't really matter if the video is entertaining
Nice vid
Aw, I'm glad you got Ben in long enough to do this episode, from chopping wood.
Ben looks like that one dwarf from the hobbit movies
I do love that hat...
I always interpreted that comment by Luthor at the end about how everything is connected, and he mentions that it's connected from will, I just assumed this was Morrison leaning on the fourth wall a little.
Wait a second I thought this story lead into superman one million where he's finished building the sun's heart 10,000 years later and is a shining golden god version of himself?
I need a Tangent episode of Ben just doing his version of Rocking Around The Christmas Tree. xD
Oh my god now DC actually doing the lex luthr superior su[perman thing ...
Art imitates life ;)
this is one of my favorite Superman stories. thanks so much for doing this one.
I love that Luthor reaches Nirvana
I have a question for this book's story and hopefully someone would give me an answer. Other Superman stories have established that using his heat vision tremendously drains Superman's solar energy reserves which brings up the question: If his cells were oversaturated with solar energy why didn't he just go to the nearest black hole and fire at it at full power for a day or two ,which would allow him to remove the excess energy from his body allowing him to stop his cellular degeneration?
What other stories establish that
i love you guys and i love back issues i hope you guys have recognized my comments, i tend to look forward to every thursday thanks to you guys :)
Aww, you're awesome! Thanks for watching!
Best quotes of the week: "Well he just ripped that right the fuck off" Ethan-17th December 2014
All these years I either forgot or just now noticed the Halo reference Sal made. :D
Sal-there's actually a book called Superior.
Ben- * whispers * damn it
This was awesome. I can't wait for yoy guys to cover superior superman * sits and waits for another 5 or 10 years *
Lex gets the super serum by hacking one of Superman's Robots (the one that sac rices itself against the sun eater to redeem itself I believe).
If I remember correctly there was a shifty robot in the fortress during the book and it turned out it was somehow sending Luthor the info he needed to make the serum.
Superman becomes superman prime you see him talking to pa Kent.
Great story, and great episode. Happy Holidays TV Little House!
Grant Morrison wrote dc one million, a future where superman comes back from the sun. He is a god and is part of the superman dynasty. Its him coming out of the sun and all star is kinda like the back story written later.
Met Sal at NYC Comic Con 17 #NerdcoreComics. Love your channel, and your reaction and opinions are real! Really ignites peoples interest in comics.
Yupp, for me this is the best Superman story. I enjoy many of them, but this one is just too fantastic!
so glad I found this channel...damn, this is awesome! one of my fav superman stories, alongside Birthright!
Oh awesome! We tackled Birthright too!
TV Little House Comics
lol watching it right now bros :D
Oh god no. Is the next All Star book All Star Batman and Robin? Talk about taking a 180. At least it'll be funny to watch you guys review it. :D
Best trio since the three musketeers guys keep it up!:D I just recently got into comics and you guys brush me up on past events!:) one request more new 52 reviews I wanna hear your guys thoughts!
I swear I'm addicted to this channel! Every single time I'm bored or I'm doing something I just put on one of your videos. Does anyone know if there's ComicPop rehab?
awesome back issues guys, thank you
Also, my favorite part of this is the single page of Superman saving the girl from committing suicide. Gets me every time.
45:20 and then it happened like 2 years later
I really loved reading this book... one of the great superman stories (:
If anyone is familiar with the All Star Superman story I would like to say I think Leo is Lex and i have had it pointed out that this is dumb because why wouldn't Leo stop Superman from going into the sun and dying. Morrison himself has essentially denied this and I think I know why. Here is my explanation. If you read this let me know what you think please.
First Leo's dialogue fits the narrative perfectly if he were Lex. Now for him killing Superman, he actually doesn't kill Superman, Superman becomes a golden god after spending 1000 years in the sun, they actually show that in the comic. Superman as the Golden God went back in time to be with his father when he died, because not being there for his father when he died was his one of his biggest regrets. Had Lex not done what he did, Superman never would have become the Golden God he was destined to become and the Super-Men never would have been created by Leo. The time travel technology was developed by Lex if he is Leo, and Lex starts talking about time and space and how everyone is one after he takes the Super serum and just before it wears off and Superman knocks him out and Superman makes a reference to Lex and how he spent his time. So in short Leo being Lex fits perfectly but it would ruin the idea of it being the death of Superman which Morrison changed after he read many people thought it was the death of Superman when that's not what he intended. He so much as admitted that much, that Superman never was meant to be dead, that he was meant to be the Golden God but he liked the idea that people could interpret the story two ways. Its fit the theme of duality and unity through-out the book. I think that is why Morrison has since stated at first that Leo is the inverse of Lex and later stating he didn't intend for them to be the same person. I'm curious to your response. Do you still think it's dumb? If so why?
Some people may need proof that Superman did survive and in fact became the Golden God aka Superman Prime
Morrison stated it was never meant to be his death in the Absolute Edition of All Star Superman. The story is based on the mythology of Hercules and his 12 trails which would lead to him having all of his mortal parts burned away and becoming God of Olympus
Morrison interview regarding the rebirth of Superman as a God based on the hercules myth
www.newsarama.com/1406-all-star-memories-grant-morrison-on-all-star-superman-7.html
again here
www.newsarama.com/1347-all-star-memories-grant-morrison-on-all-star-superman-2.html
DC Wikia explaining that they do show Superman surviving
dc.wikia.com/wiki/Kal-El_(All-Star_Superman)
Golden God or Superman Prime explained
the-gold-in-us.blogspot.com/2008/11/connecting-all-star-superman-and-dc-one.html
This is a direct quote from All Star Superman Absolute Edition under Prime Superman
(Not the Superboy/Man Prime from Geoff johns's "infinite crisis, this Prime Superman, as we'll rename him to avoid confusion, is another idea from DC ONE MILLION. He is what Superman looks like after spending several millennia meditating inside the Sun inside the sun.
As a "pure" and refined Superman, his insignia is designed to look like a heart shape, and the "S" is formed by two separated "yin/yang" shapes which are intended to be the quotation marks inside which he and his whole fictional universe is framed as a story.)
You guys predicted Rebirth Super Lex to a fucking T. Well done, hahahaha.
I'm gonna read this book now, thanks guys.
I know almost the whole dreamcoat play by heart... love the reference
You mean Sal likes a Morrison book? Holy shit hell has finally frozen over.
But seriously, this book is amazing and this episode is just as good. But please do the next All-Star book, because that thing is... something else.
Also the Earth One ogn's are a much better comparison to the ultimate books, and you should definitely get around to that sometime.
Sal you called it
how funny would it have been if superman answers the riddle and then the Egyptian god says you win a Marvel No prize superman
Back issues "Red Son" maybe? No? Ok...
Yall looking cold lol! This was a great Video thanks for making the beginning of my day a great one guys!
18:38 Superman visits Mr. clean
little did they knew it would only take two more years for "Superior Superman" to come out.
Lol sal totally called that they will do a superior superman with lex Luthor in the future of comics hah
Joseph, a direct descendant of Abraham, is often referred to as a typological precursor to Jesus. The relation to Superman could be saying that the scientist is also this precursor, if you equate Superman to Abraham (thus making the scientist his descendant, as he's facilitating the process of carrying on his legacy) and Superman2 to Jesus.
Source: Wikipeida, "Joseph (patriarch)"
I think there’s a version of Superman who turns out to be this Superman but now he’s completely golden.
Another great episode. Love back issues and this one gets a new rating, Ethan's Seal of Approval. Perhaps this rating can be applied to Off The Rack also.
You guys should do an all AXIS episode on back issues... I'm horrible...
why, AXIS has been pretty good, did you read issue #7 with the Magneto reveal? that was eye opening!
Joseph and Mary go on to have kids, just like Dr. Gideon McWacky makes other Supers. Its the premise of Dogma. For Xmas you need to do Superman Reborn or Batman saves Santa.
When Grant Morrison is on, they are ON.
The kinda predicted the super lex arc. Which I think is awesome
i don't think Superman actually died.
this seems like a callback to Morrison's DC One Million, where Superman Prime spent years in the Sun and emerged as Gold Superman, then through Kryptonian technology resurrected Lois.
Superman looks like he just smoked a bowl on that cover
He is pretty high...
thats a nice jacket sal
Actually Louis might be right, because Superman cannot be killed as long as the Yellow Sun feeds his cells. Pulling from future stories of Superman we know at one point he does spend 1500 years in the center of the Sun this could potentially be the start of that. Then again in that same storyline he also gains the powers of 5th dimensional amp and even eventually bonds with the source wall. He even does bring Lois Lane back in the body of a god as he has now. So she could be right.
This is one of the very few superman stories i actually enjoyed.
I'm not sure if Superman really "died," because Morrison says he used the same version of Supes in JLA: One Million. He comes out of the sun to save us again and whatnot.
ComicPOP! To answer the question whether Superman dies or not: He doesn't. Now hear me out: in the Smallville Superboy story, we see a golden Superman in the end of that little adventure. That Superman is actually the God Superman that Kal-El turns into after having fixed the sun for a large amount of time. He posseses nigh infinite power and is... well, a god. Now, all these events are not really happening like this in this particular All-Star universe, but in the DC One Million storyline. But since so many aspects of the Smallville Superboy story and the storyline about the sun and it's long term effects on Kryptonian DNA touch upon the DC One Million universe storyline about what happened after Superman went away from the earth to explore the universe, I think of All-Star Superman as a prequel to all the "legends" about Kal-El told in DC One Million after he - at some point - "dies" (i.e. leaving behind his life as Clark Kent on Earth because of personal losses of loved ones he eventually will experience). That would explain the ancestors, the mixing of species, the Superman 2, that this story kinda foreshadowed (which in the DC One Million story has a Superman Secundus - no shit).
All Star Superman and Last Son of Krypton are fantastic.
Still waiting for that Superior Superman Sal 😂
You mean this? screenrant.com/dc-rebirth-lex-luthor-new-superman/
So much Ethan awesomeness in this episode #gettingphysicalw/ethan
Superman is probably now just pure energy now, of almost god like potential.
My all time favorite superman book
Even though this video was uploaded more than 5 months ago , the "Superman is a plant" discussion still has me in splits :D
Red Son: Ben
Actually superman survived. Thats how we got God superman in DC 1 Million
Are you guys gonna do anymore of the Snyder Batman run? I'm interested as a lot of people i know are huge fanboys of that run wheras I have always had a slightly more critical view of it
Hey, awesome show guys. Any chance you'll do the Earth X series? I know it was weird as hell but I enjoyed the crap out of it for some reason.
It has been a while. At least ya all got a couch :3
9:10-9:20 Yeah I call bullshit.
9:32-9:39 That's more believable.
12:11-12:35 If I were Lois I'd love that too.
19:37-20:00 There's goes my harboring a subconscious obsessive love for him theory
32:10-32:22 Yeah, Lois.
38:30-38:57 Is Superman really that surprised?
Thumbs up for making the phrase "grant morrisononian" a thing.
No, Superman lives. While it appeared like the cells are being destroyed by the radiation, fact was he was becoming a kind of being made of pure energy. That last image isn't Lois' imagination.
To support this we have DC One Million. Where he comes back and is reunited with Lois.
That golden Superman from DC One Million actually makes an appearance here too. He is among the future Superman who go to Smallville to capture Chronovore. He does not fight the creature himself. But gives a special flower which Clark puts on Pa Kent's grave. When asked by Clark which Superman from future he is, his response is mysterious. Long time readers of Morrison's Superman can catch the clue.
Yeah no, we know. But it's narratively unsatisfying.
@@comicpop Wow. So cool of you guys to reply so fast. I am gonna subscribe to your channel just for that.
Personally, i find the other idea more satisfying. It gives the story a happy ending. Lending it a sort of fairytale like quality. A love story spanning across millennia. You know what i mean.
In general, i am not a fan of happy endings. I loved that when i was younger. But when i grew up and saw different stories i could catch the lie in such stories. A happy ending is but a story stopped at the right time. I still have a soft spot for that. But i prefer more pragmatic endings nowadays.
But wouldn't it be great if i get one happy ending which in true sense is a happy ending? The truth is even if people in love are united and don't separate, death separates them in the end. There are no happily ever afters. But you can make Superman immortal. Revive Lois by some comic book pseudo-science. And make them both sort of New Gods in a far flung future. That's the ending of the sorta sequel DC One Million.
I understand why some people wouldn't like this. All Star Superman however stands on its own. Its possible to ignore stories like One Million. Those are hints or clues for longtime fans.
However, i have to say its the first time i have heard that Lois is imagining Superman working in the sun. When i have discussions with others there is a difference in opinion about One Million being a sequel or not.
Some people prefer All Star for showing Superman working in sun. Lending strength to Superman being a working class superhero. Some like me prefer what is in One Million, where he leaves planet Earth after everyone he had known has passed away. He goes to the edge of universe and returns from that as a sort of 'enlightened' figure who helps bring peace to Earth once again and takes residence in his solar fortress of solitude.
So, even if i take One Million to be a sequel it does not add up. To write an evergreen Superman story Morrison left things, so as to you choose your ending.
High five!
you guys are awesome i am really getting in comics cuz of you guys
you should make a podcast Version of back issues
Thanks John! That rocks! I'd love to do a podcast version, and we might try that out in 2015!
another amazing video. and one of the only superman comics i dont dislike :D
What about Birthright? o-o
damn,Sal called lex becoming a superior superman after dupes death 2 years early
Are you going to talk about Hellboy? I am really curious about that series.
Hm. I wouldn't even know where to start, honestly. If we ever got Mignola or Perlman to come by, though...