Maybe do a fair comparison of a Brand New 6.7 Cummins powered Vision vs a Gas Powered Vision. Also, try them with the weight of kids. Let's also disclose longevity, initial cost, and efficiency.
I have a friend who owns a Fleet of Medium Duty Trucks...None are Propane...He has 7.3L Gasoline and 6.7 Cummins...The Newer Cummins trucks are not getting the longevity 500-700K that his older 6.7 Pre-DEF (Pre-Stupidity) trucks were getting, in fact HALF of that is a "Good Engine" most only make it 200K before needing a major overhaul and considering the cost of engine replacement and emissions equipment costs...The gasoline is kicking the crap out of the DEF trucks in Purchase Price, Maint, and Fuel... Its not Y2K anymore....All the advantages diesels had 20+ years ago are pretty much gone.
Propane last long if not longer than Diesels....In my area in the 1980's and 1990's Taxi fleets got 1,000,000 miles with Chevrolet Impala propane powered taxi's and Dodge Diplomat propane powered taxi's! Propane runs/burns clean and ensures the engines to last forever...
Diesel engines tend to last much longer, despite the acceleration difference. Because school bus driving is more about safety than speed, I’d choose a diesel every time.
Yeah. Because of their weight, buses can’t accelerate extremely fast unless they had 1000 horsepower which isn’t necessary. Torque is more important which is why diesel wins in school buses.
As a driver of a Bluebird Vision on propane it's a beast and never have I ever needed more power for climbing a hill or getting to speed. It's a great bus
@@dustinlanphear422 having a different transmission doesn't change power. The real reason is earlier automatics were inferior to manuals performance wise, but modern automatics are all about efficiency hence why they perform the way they do.
Big reason why we went to a few new gas powered 6.8l visions over diesel and the competitors busses. We got some seat time in all of them and instantly knew we wanted the gas powered visions
Look. Godzilla is great. High quality engine. But, when it gets down to driving, route or highway, I'll take an IC CE over the bird any day. I had one with the MaxxForce DT for my route, which is not the best engine out there, but it was a high quality bus to drive. I don't know what it is with the recent Blue Birds, but I just didn't like them. It's sad, actually. When I was a kid, Blue Bird was my jam. Loved them! (Still do! I would take a TC2000 over the IC any day). If Blue Bird built the TC2000 again, exactly as they did before, I'd be the first on their doorstep. I can't put a finger on it; there's just something ... off ... with the new ones.
I’m 2 years late, but a gasoline Bluebird and Propane Bluebird climbs hills just fine. That’s not a problem at all. I heard the gas Ic Ce does horrible at climbing hills. It solely depends on the bus and engine.
The 8.8L will live 2x as long. It is based on the GM 8100 and built substantially stronger than the GM engine. I have worked on numerous 8100s with 500K or more miles in Kodiak wreckers, buses and RVs
They'll never race those BlueBird Visions with Thomas C2s. The Cummins ISB 6.7L (Diesel) and the DriveForce 8.8L (Propane) will smoke all those buses; especially the propane lol
In the many districts I was in C2s are extremely low quality there cheap, especially in the winter you can not even go up an hill. Some districts may have the new ones but I honestly dislike the C2. Blue bird and IC are the busses for me.
@@theionltholypwerson Some of our CEs have “older” Cummins in them… so when you’re going up a slight incline at times, it’ll struggle. Our new CEs are stupid powerful and quick. You could probably get an excessive acceleration citation with one of those. I’ve never driven a C2, but I’ve rote them a lot and they’re always quick.
@@jessegloverjr.5890 the 2022 Cummins CEs seem to accelerate much faster now compared to the 2016’s Cummins isB yet they have the same Cummins engine. Weird
They say merging onto the highway and crossing traffic, but this test is useless for that since on ramps aren't flat, downhill is easy to make with any bus while uphill you need the torque. You also never start an on ramp at a dead stop, usually you start at 15-20 mph. And for crossing traffic roads aren't flat and as a school bus driver you can just wait for an opening that works well enough.
I don’t know what the output is of my schools Thomas c2’s with the 6.7 Cummins but I have been able to get a 0-60 empty at 30 seconds, idk the distance, but I’ve never felt like that was any more unsafe than when I was in elementary school riding in a Thomas Chevrolet bus with the 8.2 n/a fuel pincher
Uphill is where the diesel will shine. I drive a diesel schoolbus and uphill it will leave gas/propane powered vehicles behind. This is where the vehicles are... Gas/Propane - low MPG and limited range Diesel - higher MPG and best range Electric - 100 mile range max. Utterly useless for my daily 240 mile schoolbus runs.
Ask any bus driver that drove back in the 80's and 90's when gas and diesel buses both populated the fleet. And everyone would tell you the gas buses had more "Git up and Go" power than the diesels. However, the diesel got double the fuel economy. 5mpg vs 10mpg.
lol, gear ratios, final drive ratios ? Longevity, performance under load and in cold weather? This testing is virtually useless for real world conditions.
Of course these buses were empty. Put a bunch of kids in them and see if the results are still the same. That aside, the IC is so much more driver friendly than the Bluebird and that’s what matters to me.
First point, they had no trouble saying Blue Bird Vision, but for some reason, never once heard them say IC Bus. Sounds bias to me. Second point, when you are dealing with school buses packed with kids, the one word you never want to hear is fast. In fact, a lot of states require school buses to have governors that limit speeds to 55MPS, even on highways.
Y'all need to drive my new BB gas powered. Our fleet took possession of five new BB gasoline powered buses this year, all the same. Mine is NOT like the others. It is not nearly as quick as the others and it refuses to go as fast as the others. None are governed and yet mine won't go the speed it should even if it was governed. It drives totally like the BB diesels we have in the fleet.
I have a 350 gas stock block corvette heads with 57cc chamber 194. 150 valves stage 3 comp cam long tube headers dual plain intake 500 cfm gm Marine 2barrel carb 5 speed manual trans 410 gear 2speed rear 10mpg pulling power on the hills and I have been 80 mph with a lot of rpms left. I only drive 60mph to get gas mileage. I travel a lot 7 events a year to tiny house festivals and skoolie swarm. My bus is a 1973 chevrolet 32 foot long towing a 1929 ford rat rod. Complete handicap bus hand controls to drive 2 wheelchair lifts one is to get to the roof deck. I even have a slideout in my living room a full kitchen a full bathroom and bedroom. I have a 6 foot shop in the back with air compressor welder drill press bench grinder and a lot of hand tools air tools cordless tools electric tools I can do anything on the road to repair it. It has a airbrush paint job solor and generator awning a lot more. I'm about gas mileage and power to pull hills. You can go on my Facebook to see pictures. Hope i didn't bore you
Talk about a stupid video. I've driven school buses for 40 years. This video was slanted in favor of the crappy Blue Bird Vision. I miss the 2017 IC I drove, stuck with a 2020 Blue Turd Vision. Both have Cummins in them. I would take the IC back in a heartbeat.
Those tire sounds are so nostalgic from my bus rides home from school.
Maybe do a fair comparison of a Brand New 6.7 Cummins powered Vision vs a Gas Powered Vision. Also, try them with the weight of kids. Let's also disclose longevity, initial cost, and efficiency.
Or even a 6.7l Cummins CE vs a Cummins vision and C2. Then do all three in gas and propane engines with a simulated weight of kids on a bus.
cummins are just better in general they sound better and don't run on stupid propane
I have a friend who owns a Fleet of Medium Duty Trucks...None are Propane...He has 7.3L Gasoline and 6.7 Cummins...The Newer Cummins trucks are not getting the longevity 500-700K that his older 6.7 Pre-DEF (Pre-Stupidity) trucks were getting, in fact HALF of that is a "Good Engine" most only make it 200K before needing a major overhaul and considering the cost of engine replacement and emissions equipment costs...The gasoline is kicking the crap out of the DEF trucks in Purchase Price, Maint, and Fuel... Its not Y2K anymore....All the advantages diesels had 20+ years ago are pretty much gone.
The 8.9L L9 or 8.3L ISC are much better, they handle the DEF better and we have some with well over 200k that are still performing great
Propane last long if not longer than Diesels....In my area in the 1980's and 1990's Taxi fleets got 1,000,000 miles with Chevrolet Impala propane powered taxi's and Dodge Diplomat propane powered taxi's!
Propane runs/burns clean and ensures the engines to last forever...
Diesel engines tend to last much longer, despite the acceleration difference. Because school bus driving is more about safety than speed, I’d choose a diesel every time.
Yeah. Because of their weight, buses can’t accelerate extremely fast unless they had 1000 horsepower which isn’t necessary. Torque is more important which is why diesel wins in school buses.
It honestly depends on the districts in my local area some districts are already retiring 2016s in 2023
The sound of that godzilla motor though. Its just lovely.
I love how yall covered the IC logo like nobody would be able to tell what it is
fr there idiots
As a driver of a Bluebird Vision on propane it's a beast and never have I ever needed more power for climbing a hill or getting to speed. It's a great bus
Back in the day buses were more fast with manual transmission
I remember hearing from a few school bus drivers that the manual transmission buses were more powerful
It's true!
@@dustinlanphear422 having a different transmission doesn't change power. The real reason is earlier automatics were inferior to manuals performance wise, but modern automatics are all about efficiency hence why they perform the way they do.
My 2020 Vision is only getting 4mpg. I miss the fuel mileage of my Cummins diesel vision.
The EPA doesn't care about fuel economy they only care about what comes out of the tailpipe
Big reason why we went to a few new gas powered 6.8l visions over diesel and the competitors busses. We got some seat time in all of them and instantly knew we wanted the gas powered visions
The Maxxforce 7 is not even made anymore, you should’ve used the Cummins in both buses, atleast it would be fair.
The Maxxforce 7 also can make up to 300 hp and 400ftlb torque they had a lower hp engine. Also the DT and Cummins is much more powerful.
Look. Godzilla is great. High quality engine. But, when it gets down to driving, route or highway, I'll take an IC CE over the bird any day. I had one with the MaxxForce DT for my route, which is not the best engine out there, but it was a high quality bus to drive. I don't know what it is with the recent Blue Birds, but I just didn't like them.
It's sad, actually. When I was a kid, Blue Bird was my jam. Loved them! (Still do! I would take a TC2000 over the IC any day). If Blue Bird built the TC2000 again, exactly as they did before, I'd be the first on their doorstep. I can't put a finger on it; there's just something ... off ... with the new ones.
Change the shift points in the ECU for better acceleration ;)
But take the gas powered vs diesel up a hill and see those results.
I’m 2 years late, but a gasoline Bluebird and Propane Bluebird climbs hills just fine. That’s not a problem at all. I heard the gas Ic Ce does horrible at climbing hills. It solely depends on the bus and engine.
That bluebird vision 7.3 Godzilla v8 took the 8.8l engine
More HP
The 8.8L will live 2x as long. It is based on the GM 8100 and built substantially stronger than the GM engine. I have worked on numerous 8100s with 500K or more miles in Kodiak wreckers, buses and RVs
They'll never race those BlueBird Visions with Thomas C2s. The Cummins ISB 6.7L (Diesel) and the DriveForce 8.8L (Propane) will smoke all those buses; especially the propane lol
In the many districts I was in C2s are extremely low quality there cheap, especially in the winter you can not even go up an hill.
Some districts may have the new ones but I honestly dislike the C2. Blue bird and IC are the busses for me.
@@theionltholypwerson Some of our CEs have “older” Cummins in them… so when you’re going up a slight incline at times, it’ll struggle. Our new CEs are stupid powerful and quick. You could probably get an excessive acceleration citation with one of those. I’ve never driven a C2, but I’ve rote them a lot and they’re always quick.
@@jessegloverjr.5890 the 2022 Cummins CEs seem to accelerate much faster now compared to the 2016’s Cummins isB yet they have the same Cummins engine. Weird
@@charlesrodriguez7984 I’m not sure, but I think Cummins update their engines yearly, so there would be a newer/updated/better engines in newer buses!
they'll never race again because Blue Bird paid them once
They say merging onto the highway and crossing traffic, but this test is useless for that since on ramps aren't flat, downhill is easy to make with any bus while uphill you need the torque. You also never start an on ramp at a dead stop, usually you start at 15-20 mph. And for crossing traffic roads aren't flat and as a school bus driver you can just wait for an opening that works well enough.
I believe the late 60's , early 70's Chevy, IH, Ford, busses with the big blocks and 5 speeds would have smoked most of these.
BRILLIANT idea.
I don’t know what the output is of my schools Thomas c2’s with the 6.7 Cummins but I have been able to get a 0-60 empty at 30 seconds, idk the distance, but I’ve never felt like that was any more unsafe than when I was in elementary school riding in a Thomas Chevrolet bus with the 8.2 n/a fuel pincher
Blue Bird Vision Gasoline is the best
That's that 7.3
Uphill is where the diesel will shine. I drive a diesel schoolbus and uphill it will leave gas/propane powered vehicles behind.
This is where the vehicles are...
Gas/Propane - low MPG and limited range
Diesel - higher MPG and best range
Electric - 100 mile range max. Utterly useless for my daily 240 mile schoolbus runs.
What are you smoking? Diesels are wore uphill
@@seanthe100 no fr
Ask any bus driver that drove back in the 80's and 90's when gas and diesel buses both populated the fleet. And everyone would tell you the gas buses had more "Git up and Go" power than the diesels. However, the diesel got double the fuel economy. 5mpg vs 10mpg.
why didnt they test diesel =vs. diesel
This is very useful consumer information
Why compare it to an ic ce???
We got these types of school bus my bus called 21-012 propane bus
Atlanta public schools
lol, gear ratios, final drive ratios ? Longevity, performance under load and in cold weather? This testing is virtually useless for real world conditions.
Bluebird is just in generally better than IC
yes, engine power over comfort and reliability
Of course these buses were empty. Put a bunch of kids in them and see if the results are still the same. That aside, the IC is so much more driver friendly than the Bluebird and that’s what matters to me.
The diesel is even worse fully loaded, mine would be full and struggle getting up even a little incline
First point, they had no trouble saying Blue Bird Vision, but for some reason, never once heard them say IC Bus. Sounds bias to me. Second point, when you are dealing with school buses packed with kids, the one word you never want to hear is fast. In fact, a lot of states require school buses to have governors that limit speeds to 55MPS, even on highways.
only if it was diesel
Y'all need to drive my new BB gas powered. Our fleet took possession of five new BB gasoline powered buses this year, all the same. Mine is NOT like the others. It is not nearly as quick as the others and it refuses to go as fast as the others. None are governed and yet mine won't go the speed it should even if it was governed. It drives totally like the BB diesels we have in the fleet.
Why not D to D
Well your comparing two different brands so yeah it’s gonna be different.
3:07
I have a 350 gas stock block corvette heads with 57cc chamber 194. 150 valves stage 3 comp cam long tube headers dual plain intake 500 cfm gm Marine 2barrel carb 5 speed manual trans 410 gear 2speed rear 10mpg pulling power on the hills and I have been 80 mph with a lot of rpms left. I only drive 60mph to get gas mileage. I travel a lot 7 events a year to tiny house festivals and skoolie swarm. My bus is a 1973 chevrolet 32 foot long towing a 1929 ford rat rod. Complete handicap bus hand controls to drive 2 wheelchair lifts one is to get to the roof deck. I even have a slideout in my living room a full kitchen a full bathroom and bedroom. I have a 6 foot shop in the back with air compressor welder drill press bench grinder and a lot of hand tools air tools cordless tools electric tools I can do anything on the road to repair it. It has a airbrush paint job solor and generator awning a lot more. I'm about gas mileage and power to pull hills. You can go on my Facebook to see pictures. Hope i didn't bore you
If a Thomas c2 was there it would of beat both of them diesel or Godzilla
if you would actually give the diesel some throttle it would have done alot better.
Put my kids on a Bluebird please!!
Why?
You should compare with electric
Pff… there will be no comparison.
have fun
Holy crap that’s a lot of glue on that dragstrip. Damn.
My Thomas EFX with a diesel Cummins engine is faster than that!
Cummins CE could smoke TF out of both those buses XD
WITH NO LOAD??
My bus handled totally different with 88 students on board.
That’s the exact same torqe in a Lamborghini huracan sto
wish you had an electric
Talk about a stupid video. I've driven school buses for 40 years. This video was slanted in favor of the crappy Blue Bird Vision. I miss the 2017 IC I drove, stuck with a 2020 Blue Turd Vision. Both have Cummins in them. I would take the IC back in a heartbeat.
That bluebird vision 7.3 Godzilla v8 took the 8.8l engine
3:08
3:09