Should they be used? Cheap Mainspring Winders - Full review and comparison with the Bergeon Winders
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- čas přidán 2. 09. 2020
- Cheap Mainspring Winders - Are they any good? This video is a full review of the Chinese manufactured mainspring winders which are now popping up all over many online stores, I thought it would be interesting to review them and compare them with the Swiss Bergeon Winders
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#watchtools #mainspring #bergeon - Jak na to + styl
First off Thank You for uploading this tutorial. Secondly, the newer more expensive Chinese caliber specific sets have steel arbors with the appropriate steel hook for winding the mainspring without fear of imminent failure. While of course the Bergeon set is coveted by all, the foreboding price makes them a luxury.
The Chinese set I have comes with 20 barrels and arbors that are caliber specific with one handle with both left and right cutouts to accommodate the caliber specific left or right hand winding. These calibers are all specific to wristwatches but for some of the smaller size pocket watches ( sizes up to 10 ) the largest of the winders seem to work adequately.
Again Thank You for your video on this topic as I appreciate all the information I can get!
Half way through the review, i said to my self "this is the most detailed review i have seen". I also believe that the Chinese will make changes to the tool set, as they improve constantly.
Kudos mark, for a job well done.
lol you expect them to innovate... history has shown they will only copy some one else if they need to or start to loose sales... expecting them just make a better product because its good for the consumer is pretty funny though... The ccp has made a culture of cheats and thieves. The chinese could be a world leader if it was not for the CCP. If you are lucky the ccp will fall or another maker gives them reason to better/copy a better design, cause the myth of home grown innovation is again laughable.
It would be nice to see this review redone with the inexpensive Chinese sets that now have the steel arbors.
I bought the smaller Chinese set a few months ago and as of yet haven't been able to use them; they are always just the wrong size. I've had great success with hand winding though and since I'm not working on anything expensive I think that's the way I will continue until I win the lottery.
Also, my smaller set has steel arbors NOT brass.
@@2Death9 I won't buy a set of winders if all I am working on is cheap hobby watches or watches found in garage sales.
@@2Death9 Now those sets are like 45 euros and have steel instead of brass. The "real" stuff is not worth one dime. I personally work in a bike store. Spokes can be different in mm. When you cut them you need to put thread on them for the nipples. Those threads are not cut but rolled(Pressed into shape) and so there stronger. The whole tool solution for just that, costs me 550 euros. Plus the "rollers" wear so 150 every time one is worn. Its insane its this expensive.
Oddly enough i looked at these a couple of months ago knowing my hand spring winding to be detrimental to the watch's health & glad to see you covering the subject especially in such great depth and detail, very much appreciated.
Love the videos Mark I am just getting into making my own wrist watches very much a novice, but you do a great job of making some difficult decisions a lot easier for us beginners. Thanks for devoting your time to help us, newbies, out.
It's been two years I would love to hear about your experience so far I'm starting now too
I was at this cross road a few months ago and I am glad to see this video. I mainly service ETA 2824-2, 2836 and 2846 and was trying to decide between this Chinese set on eBay, piecemealing the Bergeon set one at a time as needed (still most expensive) or buy a used set such as the K & D Adjustable 123X Mainspring Winder Set . I ended up buying the K & D adjustable 3 piece set however the arbor sizes are to big or the back is to small. I also noticed after the spring was wound, it spread the adjustable holder far enough to where I had issues fitting it in the barrel and had to do it a few more times. As a hobbyist, I now think the best option would be to start with buy one Bergeon right handle, and then buy two ETA arbors however even Bergeon is off on their arbor size for example the ETA 2846 is still to big. No perfect solution for a hobbyist on a budget her IMO.
This video was so helpful and interesting. Three thumbs-up!
Please make tutorial on the hack. Thanks!
Dispense the mainspring into an old mainspring holder, flip it over and then push it into the barrel
@@matt99is File this tip under "Don't throw stuff away 'cause you never know when some random fiddly bit will save a repair!" :D
Mark, thank you very much, as always the video is very informative. As for me, I’m not professional watchmaker, but an ordinary hobbyist. Few month ago I bought the Chinese-manufactured mainspring winder, exactly the same you showed in your video. I’ve been using it for several month by now and I can say that for nonprofessional as me it is quite a solution. Of course if I had enough money I would buy swiss made high quality watch tool, but I don’t have enough money. Chinese made tool provides appropriate quality for the price, in my opinion.
.....what about if you're working on a russian watch, or lower quality than Eta movement for example? Are these cylinders uniquely made for certain swiss calibers only?
Hi could you specify which brand did you buy, or copy the link to the one you bought.
Great video, thanks Mark.
I guess if we kept the retainers from new main springs, we could use those to swap a right hand wound mainspring to a left hand wound.
Would just need to start collecting the main spring retainers from now on.
Wonderful video. Thanks so much for explaining how watch winders work in detail. I've watched many Watch repair videos, and they never go into the details how a winder actually works. Agree with you that cheap tools have their hidden costs. I work mostly with fabricating small electronics and there are key tools such as pliers and screwdrivers that I used constantly, and so I've purchased highest quality I can afford. For less frequent tasks I may trade off quality for price. I have had some “cheap” tools for many years because they are infrequently used and I take very good care of them. I think this is an equation that everyone, except those with unlimited funds, goes through when they purchase a tool. Am I going to use this once in a while, or every day? I think you showed, that if one exercises care, a cheap Chinese set is superior to hand winding or just replacing the mainspring. The trade off is reliability and longevity of the tool. For the occasional amateur that might be acceptable. As you go up the skill and and utilization curve you may be able to justify the purchase of the higher quality tool.
Thanks Mark, as always very helpful. I wish they made mainspring loaders for hobbyists that are durable and affordable. I would definitely purchase one once I begin my journey in watchmaking 😸
Really helped me out a lot thank you!
Yes, please make the tutorial and thanks a bunch for this very useful video!
Hi Mark, Thanks for the review of the cheap mainspring winders. I have pondered purchasing a set of these for convenience over the last year or two however, I think I'll stick to my practice of buying a new mainspring if available although, I have been taking note of the sizes of the barrels I most commonly work on and as a compromise, buy the individual Bergeon winders as required as I don't think I'd use the full set. Keep up the good work!!
This is something I've always had an interest in, but until CZcams came along I effectively really had nowhere to learn enough about it. Now that I could potentially afford the hobby I've gotten much too old and my hands really shake far too much.
Secondly it's a bit like my real hobby, woodworking where your tools really do make all the difference. Cheap tools will work, but you'll almost always have to fix the cheap tools to be of much use.
Thanks to your channel I did my first repair when I had to reseat the minute hand on a watch that just arrived from India.
Having restored hundreds of pocket watch movements, I can confirm: Always use a new alloy mainspring, always use a mainspring winder. Hand winding a mainspring will deform the spring, and can put kinks along the length of the spring - both will reduce the effective power sent through the gear train. I use a vintage Marshall mainspring winder with multiple sized barrels and a steel handle that is cut for both left hand and right hand winding. You could probably do the same with the Chinese set. Still doesnt solve the brass arbor issue. Thanks for sharing your videos!
Agree one hundred percent with your findings. Making a set with proper left and right bodies, thicker walls and less stands and the most important part, steel arbors. The set could easily be made for the same price or possibly less and be comparable to the Swiss winders.
Great video.
Cheers Willy
So much great information from this man.
I did purchase a set from eBay and while they, too are caliber specific, the set came with only one handle, but more importantly steel winders.
Could please place the link for this set?
What an excellent subject for a video. Thank you.
Definitely want to see the Seiko left-hand hack please! I have this set, and because it was cheap I didn't feel too bad about drilling out one of the barrels to accept a different handle with a bigger arbour to suit the mainspring I was grappling with....
Thank you. I learnt a lot.
Thank YOU!!!! Finally a Video That Explains this in detail that gives a full understanding of how this all works especially measuring for Sizes So Grateful Mark! You are Simply The BEST :)
I own both
some second Hand Bergeon universal winder and this Set of Chinease ones
What I did with the Chinease one is...
1. File away the brass Hook
2. Drill a 0.2-0.5mm Hole in the same Location
3. Take a 0.2-0.5mm blue Steel rod and glue it in place
4. Shorten it until its as long as the original Hook was
5. Polish the end
The Set is in Use for 3? Years now, never had a Problem
And I cant see much wear on it
Great review. I would very much like to see you make your own, caliber specific, winders. I would really like to learn more about lathe work.
Very nice presentation, thank you!
Thank you . Excellent video
I purchased this exact set so I was a little apprehensive about seeing your video..."Did I buy crap?". My set had four broken crank knobs, but the seller refunded me $35 of my $107 purchase price. I'm a hobbyist, but what a found was the set did NOT fit most of the vintage watches I was working on. Has it been worth it? Well, not really yet, and I didn't know the arbors were calibre specific until this video. Live and learn...and...buy more tools. Good thing I like tools...
Makes much more sense now - thank you!
Thanks for making this vedio. Very informative and very helpful to the new hobbyist. Very valuable contribution to the community. Please do make more of these. Thanks for taking the time out to do this. 👍👏👌🥃🥃🥃🥃
I recently ordered a set and currently it´s at the customs office at the airport of arrival. I will only use it occcasionally on my watches mainly using ETA-movements. Concerning the brass hook of the winders I also fear that they won´t last very long.
I am very excited if the set I ordered will arrive undamaged or not.
Thank you very much for your review! Now I know what to expect.
P.S. they arrived today and I was very pleased that their arbors are made of steel and not of brass!
This set was slightly more expensive than the one showed in this video.
But far more cheaper than the Swiss made.
Great tutorials. Do you have any info on how to tell if an ETA movement is a premium or standard. Think I'm having an issue with high end watches having had there movement replaced.
Thanks Mark for the education and the heads up. Think I ll just hand wind until I can afford a good set. As they say... You only get what you pay for!. Thanks again. Adrian
Fascinating. I have nothing to do with watches but am a machinist. Ive seen these tools for sale and wonder what they were for. Excellent explanation. Totally agree with the Chinese dilemma, its the same with lathe tools, you win some you lose some. If you want a tool to do one job then go with China, if you want a tool to use and cherish then buy quality ( even if you cant see the difference initially ) Thank you for your in depth explanation
Yes, I end up buying a 2nd hand set of RIGHT HAND ONLY 17-drum Bergeon set shown on Otto Frei the other day. Priced 3 times of the brand new 10-drum Chinese set of course.
I would love to see reviews of other ali-express horology tools. There is a "bergeon" clone staking set and jeweling tool. This is great info for us amateur and hobby guys who can't afford it good stuff. And I agree as a pro tradesmen, if your using it for your livelihood get the pro stuff. If it's a hobby, use the lower end.
I have the jeweling tool, it's very nicely made but I have nothing to compare it to. I also have the staking set on order, I hear other people say it's worth it for the punches alone.
@@2Death9 good to know. They look well made, but pics can be deceiving.
** UPDATE: I have not personally confirmed this, but many people have reported that the set found on the cousins website does have steel arbors **
** Don't forget to check out part two of my hand lifting tool build - part three is almost ready czcams.com/video/EcjVgzY0K9Q/video.html **
Cheap Mainspring Winders - Are they any good? This video is a full review of the Chinese manufactured mainspring winders which are now popping up all over many online stores, I thought it would be interesting to review them and compare them with the Swiss Bergeon Winders.
good morning thank you so much for the review Mark, I have been using the Chinese kit for several months, I think that for the cost it is recommended, before I used my hands with disastrous effects, but I am only an amateur and I am not a professional watchmaker. I would have loved to buy bergeron, but the costs are prohibitive.
Thanks. Really enjoyed this educational review. Would love to see the hack tutorial.
I have bought the cheap set from Cousins. I have the same experience - some of the cranks were left-handed, and some regular. However, the set from Cousins only contains one extended barrel and two rings, sot he waste is minimal. Also, it comes in the box, so damages to the parts in transport were prevented. I attempted to wind one of my mainsprings by choosing the proper set by barrel diameter. However, the mainspring was wider than the little depression in the winder shaft (where the hook sits), so the hook did not lock properly. I could not wind the spring past two or three rotations - as the hook released from the mainspring. This is precisely because these winders are caliber-specific. I suspect that the Bergeon set would not have given me these issues.
Thank you for the great video. What does it mean to be calibre specific vs generic? Is it just the diameter of the barrel? Does your generic set just have a lot more sizes? And for hobbyists, is it egregious if you use a winder smaller than the barrel so the spring has to expand when you put it in? I know that is probably not right, but winders are one of those things there I just can't rationalize spending the money and buying new springs can also feel so wasteful if it just needs a cleaning.
Outstanding review sir! I think I’ll keep saving my money for a Good set of winders.
I would be really interested in a video about using regular winders instead of left hand winders. I bought a used set of regular winders, but obtaining left handed ones seems to be impossible if you don't want to go for bergeon.
Hi Mark, I bought the set with stainless arbors and other parts, AU$147. Can't wait for the hack vid mate
Ya I think being that all my automatics either house a eta 2824 or sellita sw200 I'd rather just buy a handful of mainsprings and just replace them everytime I do a service on them every 7 or so years rather then spend close to a grand on winders that ill never get my money's worth out of.for those 2 movements being that they're basically one in the same I can get new mainspring for $18 or I get get the complete barrel already assembled for $22 so think for a hobbiest like myself it would just be more cost effective to buy the new springs and use the money I save from buying winders to buy other quality tools such as tweezers and whatnot.dont plan on ever making a living off of learning to repair watches so don't see why I'd ever need a reason for the winders especially now after seeing this video.was thinking about purchasing them just to have them but think that money will now go to oils instead.thanks for video
As a hobbyist that wouldn't use this tool as often as a professional....It may be worth the money. I bought a generic Chinese tool kit that may work for a while. At least I hope so. If they fail, I guess I'll be buying a new main spring for my watches. Great video explaining things. Thanks.
I swear, watching this channel is like pulling back the curtain on the Wizard of Oz!
Excellent. I'm not put off, _except_ my work will be almost exclusively on popular Japanese movements: Seiko 7S26, NH35, Citizen/Miyota 8203 and Orient F6922. I'm prepared to machine new pins for the cranks from, e.g. mild steel. I'd love some viewpoint on how this set might work for me winding the mainsprings on these movements, particularly in relation to the predominantly Swiss movement - specific sizings in these Chinese sets. Thanks, again Mark!
Greta video, Any idea of the quality since the video was made?
What would you use for omega 564 mainspring and barrel . I haven’t found a good one.
Wow, this answered that question. When you compare the bergeon to the Chinese sets its completely obvious the that Chinese set is inferior. The old saying "you get what you pay for" becomes abundantly clear, almost painfully so. Thanks for doing this video. Here in the states we have harbor freight tool supply that sell automotive and the like tools. I refer to these as they'll do in a pinch but not a long term multiple use tool. In a not so polite term "junk".
I have been haunting YT for videos on winders for exactly the reasons given in the video. Though I wear gloves rather than just cots, I still had the same issues with hand winding. I Did purchase a used set of vintage winders but had the devils' own time using them as the pieces simply did not want to stay together during a task. This is the first I have heard of COUSINS offering an alternative to BERGERON so I may take a peak there. Frankly, though I am still "gun-shy" about PRC products given the number of compaints I have heard about poor finish and difficulty in interfacing with more mainstream products and tools. (Great Video, BTW 😊)
Wife... just how many more tools do you need? Me... one more than I've already got!
My tools are in a secret competition with your shoes.
I don’t think my wife is prepared for the hobby I’m preparing for
Dear sir, could you tell me where to get the tool to remove the minute cannon and more importantly the courses are taught in Spanish, thank you very much
All my watches are vintage, many lay with overwound mainsprings for years. Lately, I just wind them up a bit and see how strongly they try to unwind if I let up the click. while holding on to the crown. If they can't wind down properly it is a definite swap. some watches still have a lot of juice left, and I just leave those alone.
Thank you very much for this content. Now I will wait for chinese to pick up the good advices and implement them on the product, then I will buy... Meanwhile more hand winding. By the way, the way I do it is slightly different: after placing the tail of the spring I keep the spring in track and roll the barrel to pick it in... I think it's the best "worst practice", at least it diminishes the cots issue (also I lubricate the cots tips beforhand).
Great vid! Left hand hack please!
Yes! I went with the cheap Mainspring Winder "10 in a set" fortunately, all were intact. However, like yours all arbor hooks are made of brass, except for the handle which appears to be made of alloy metal. Regardless, I found the brass to soft against the metal spring, "a serious oversight that is doomed to fail".
Please more videos of your tools!
a question just in general, but i have a seiko chronograph, just a regular quarts movement, but its buttons are stuck for adjusting the smaller dials, any specific tips on how to fix it the easyest without dammaging it?
Thanks!!!
This is good information! Thinking I will be purchasing new springs for a time. :/
Could you please show how to measure for a replacement Case Gasket. Enjoy your videos very much.
Excelente Info
Certainly interested in the hack video!
Thank you for the good video..Please show the left-hand-hack;)
I purchased this set myself but it hasnt arrived yet. I was hoping that it would be much more versatile and usable for many mainsprings:( Are there other affordable (chinese) winders out there?
Recently i purchased a used and old set of winders, but the steel- hooks were completely or nearly completely gone and useless...and i think this might be a big and not mentioned problem with buying used winders!
I wish I could find a universal chinese set with SS hooks. Thank you for all your great videos
Excellent vid. But something still perplexes me. When I remove the mainspring barrel and see the spring, how can I tell whether it needs a left or righthand winder? (Maybe I'm also confusing this with left-handed or right-handed persons.) Is this addressed in one of your other videos? Thanks.
If you are a hobbyist then replacing the mainspring sounds like a good option particularly on a valuable watch unless you are wealthy and buying a set of quality winders is easily affordable and if you give up the hobby at least you can sell them. On cheap movements I see no problem to hand winding if done with care.
2nd!!! Come from notifications, waiting this video!!
Didn't you say that all 14 winders were the same? If so, even if the brass hook fails you have 13 more, right? Maybe that's why they included so many.
Interesting point.
The winders are not the same! Just the handles.
Where do you find new mainsprings? Anyone know where in the US? Also, left hand hack!
One Bergeon without handle stands you in at north of £60 with VAT, I see these sets are running at just over £100, a price that will likely go down with time. True, the brass hooks could be an issue, but with even the smallest of lathes and careful handwork it should not be too much of a stretch to make steel replacement parts. There's even the fact that the parts of these sets would make a useful start on making up winders for odd movements one might tinker with, so as always with a lot of Chinese stuff these sets have great potential for those inclined to add value themselves. I'd also suggest that Marks excellent video will be viewed by enterprising Chinese eyes, which will lead to steel replacing brass in parts.
As probably the vast majority of mechanical watch fiddling these days is by Hobbyists, I'd have to say that the Chinese are going to end up eating Bergeon's and ETA's lunch :)
Special horological suppliers! In my country (one of the biggest, not the small one) it is almost impossible no buy crystals, main springs, not not mention other replacement parts. And ordering over the border takes 4+ weeks.
Mark, please make the tutorial on the hack.
If you have any experience at milling you would notice that the swarf that you were talking about on that hook at the end of the video was there from manufacture
So sad they can't make a quality full set of mainspring winders. This is the reason I've not started my Watch Channel classes.
How can i measure the size of a mainspring in order to get the correct size of Winder for it ???
hello everybody,i got a mechanical watch few weeks ago and it now runs a little bit fast.I test it with a compass,it's indeed a little bit magnetized.I just order a demagnetized machine to do it on my own.Here is the question,should i let the watch stop first(hack or running out of power) or it can be done while the watch still running ?Thanks for answering.
Salut Mark, je suis un horloger suisse qui a un petit atelier, je n’ai pas de gros moyen financier et je pense que le kit chinois peut dépanner mais qu’il n’est évidement pas aussi fiable que le matériel suisse, je pense que cela dépend du nombre de fois où on l’emploie, en tout cas merci pour tes vidéos, c’est bien fait et super cool .Alain la Chaux de Fonds
There are two variations of the chinese winders, one with brass and one with steel arbors. The set Cousins sells has the steel arbors, but you can also get it from eBay or Aliexpress. The plunger is still made of brass though, but that is less of a dealbreaker.
Interesting. Any way to tell which ones on eBay or Aliexpress?
@@24hourgmtchannel64 I believe the smaller set with 10 winders and only one holder has steel arbors. The discs between the arbor and the winding-handle are also steel rather than brass. But just to be safe I would look for a listing that has a picture of the arbor, like this one: aliexpress.com/item/4001069683424.html
There are many gaps in the market that a decent Chinese version could fill. Maybe a group buy could be arranged or a collaboration with someone like cousins?..Mainspring winders, Cannon pinion removers and tighteners to name just a few.
Paid £236 for my Longines Conquest automatic mainspring and service recently , hope they used a decent mainspring
nice
I have vintage Watchcraft mainspring winders.
How to know when to use a right and left hand?
where can i buy a box of old watches to practice on...taking apart rebuilding etc
Ebay sometimes has such offerings.
Darn. I lost my typing. Ok I’m going to make it w short
Please tell us how to measure and order a new mainspring. Also I read they are &40
$40. Expensive 😱. Thank you
You are an excellent teacher I think I will sign up for your school Mark.
Presume I’m not the only one who marvels at the energy stored in a main spring to power a watch?
Please make a video comparing the Rolex 31XX vs the newer 32XX series movement when you get hands-on both examples. There are lots of information on the internet which suggests that the newer movements don't look as easy to service as their older movements. I'd love to know your thoughts on this topic. :)
Please give us a tutorial about the Left-to-right-hand hack!
Buy a Chinese "building kit" and finish off its defects. In this case, the shafts and left-hand engraving on one of the handles
How about a generic, affordable, quality cannon pinion remover?
I've found a presto hand remover does the job easily in a couple of seconds..
I think they are called pin vices
Hand removal levers work perfect 99% of the time, for me....
@@jowettcars I'd be too worried about pulling crooked on the pin vise and bending or snapping something. I like the idea of a Presto tool or a pair of levers better. Easier to keep things moving in a nice straight line.
I wish I had watched this before I purchased a Chinese set , the good news is they were cheap and will be usable at some point in my watch destroying career.
Hello. I have performed an operation of placing a left hand spring with a right hand set, on a right hand hook. I have a Chinese set with one handle and steel stems. I wound the spring to a smaller barrel, then pushed it to another barrel, slightly bigger, and then to the barrel drum. I did it once so far. To be honest, the set failed on some other occasions: stems were too narrow to catch the spring with the hook. Respect, Marek, Poland
As well as the brass hooks completely failing on winding like mentioned as a possibility in this video, isn’t another risk that as they wear, brass filings could shear off and infiltrate the spring you are winding?
Good point, if the swarf shown in the video was in fact from the first wind, I can see this being an issue.
Correct
Why not fix a tiny steel plate on the surface where the brass hook is likely to see the most wear?