Do High Flow Nozzles MIX Dual Color Filament?
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- I recently showed you this really fancy-looking, two-color filament that comes out of the nozzle with the same pattern as it was fed and creates some mesmerizing effects on your parts. However, the question so many of you had was, what happens if you feed this material through one of the high flow nozzles that split the filament up. Will they mix the material and remove the effect? This is the question I’ll answer today by printing parts with Bondtechs CHT nozzle, my simple mesh nozzle, and finally, this overkill Hedgehog Volcano nozzle where I solder six pieces of wire in which we’ll, of course, also test for its flow capability! Let’s find out more!
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
0:52 Co-Extrusion Filaments
1:37 High Flow Nozzles
3:46 Über Volcano Nozzle
8:37 Flow Test
9:46 Summary
#3Dprinting #diy #nozzles - Věda a technologie
Could mixing nozzles be useful?
Could you bypass the patent by having the nozzle two part? lets call it a heat zone instead, seperate it from the nozzle itself and bingo. Patent avoided, this is how patents lead to innovation. Lets do this. Having a heatzone with internal heating "fins" or wires is here by free for all. Refer to this post as prior art in relation to any potential lawsuits!
@@ET_AYY_LMAO This is actually a really good idea!
@@ET_AYY_LMAO Isn't this what Stefan did in one of the last videos? czcams.com/video/TdndOILeaIo/video.html
Could be very interesting for designers. But as well for functional gradient materials with variable stiffness.
Man, full CMYK coloring would be something to behold.
hey stefan, i think the melting performance of the über-volcano would be even better if you wouldn't have milled the sides down. the milled down surfaces reduce the contact area with the heater block thus reducing heat transmission.
just add more solder before re-cutting threads. Need to find some silver solder that can handle higher temperatures.
I agree. And to create a flat spot to start the drill, screw the nozzle in a M6 nut. Then drill through the nut and the nozzle, and remove the nut afterwards.
True although it does help start the drill. My suggestion though would be to plunge the end mill only in the locations you plan on drilling the holes and use an end mill only a little bit over the size that you plan to use for the drill bit.that way the solder completely fills the hole and you get full contact. I also wonder if you can get a steel Volcano nozzle. That way you could install steel wires and braze them or weld them in rather than using solder that has a melting point so close to the plastic. This would also allow you to increase the temperature and or use higher temperature plastic.
Interrupted threads don't appear to be a problem, but might be better served with just a 1mm slot on each side compared to a full reduction, yes. Which incidentally... might allow affixing the wires in a different way: don't drill through but stick it into the other side, then bend up the wire into the channel before soldering it in.
Depends. As long as the heat transfer into the nozzle is >= the heat going into the filament then it doesn't matter. Think of the nozzle as a bucket with a hole in it. And the heat flowing into the nozzle as a hose filling the bucket with water. You can restrict the hose as much as you want as long as it flows at least as much water as the hole in the bucket then the bucket will never empty.
As long as you can fill the bucket as fast as the hole can drain it then the bucket will stay full. He only needs as much heat transfer into the nozzle as the nozzle transfers into the filament. If this happens then the temperature of the nozzle won't drop.
If you want to keep the bit from wandering, make an M6 nut with 3 sides, and tighten the nozzle inside. Then you can use the flats of the nut as your drill point without having to sacrifice the threads on the side of the nozzle.
It's essentially just making a drill bush, but for a radial drilling direction instead of an axial direction.
You could just drill a hole in a normal nut and rotate into position, drill and rotate it again, repeat till you have all the holes drilled.
@@samthenerf both are really smart ideas
@@samthenerf Good idea. Better still, a square nut (maybe a long one, made from a bit of brass bar) with a longitudinal split right through one side, and the guide hole drilled opposite the split. Then when you tighten the vice it'll flex and clamp the nozzle threads. Jig and fixture all in one! Bonus marks if one side is rounded so that the flexure of the jig doesn't affect the grip of the vice jaws.
Could also just spotface each hole with a small center cutting end mill and a slow feedrate. Or even just use a chunky center drill barely enough to get past the threads.
Smart Idea - I think this is how it would work just fine....
A standard M6 nut is just fine though - not even something to make.
FYI US patent laws place no restrictions on personal experimentation with patented ideas. Only if you started selling something would it matter. The whole purpose of the patent system is to encourage inventors to disclose their ideas in exchange for patent protections so that other people can understand and improve on the idea.
I’ve seen a lot of misconception about this in the 3D printing community (that said, I know nothing about German law).
Excellent job as always and very informative video!
Just seperate nozzle and heatzone. make special heatzone, then use bog standard nozzles in the end, boom patent avoided, and hereby declared public domain!
The ultimate nozzle soldering would be to braze the wires in place. The brazing temperature is around 450 °C
Or even better yet use a press fit connection and superheat the nozzle before placing it.
I wouldn't want to braze brass, ie, it's a pain if the filler and parent metal melt at the same temp because the whole nozzle can melt. Sliver solder would be better, or even 99% high tin solder.
I personally would just peen the wire ends to seal them, or centre punch the ends so they expand.
@@SidneyCritic good point. I just looked it up and brass melts at around double the temperature of brazing solder. Brazing copper tubing and brass fittings is common in HVAC applications
@@nrdesign1991 It's more a thermology thing. Like some people classify silver soldering brazing because some SS is brass coloured. Where as I classify brazing as welding with brass, ie, the same material. When you weld cast iron with high grade brass rods, the weld can be so hard that when it cools/shrinks it can crack the base metal.
You are perfectly correct in saying there is fillers that will melt at a higher temp than solder, but not as high as the parent metal.
@@SidneyCritic you could just hit it with a TIG torch and tack it real quick and that'd be good enough if the hole was not loose around the wire
Hey Stefan! I'm unsure if it's already been commented, but one idea I have for increasing turbulence in the flow is to offset the copper wires from the center of the flow path by a little. This would cause uneven resistances down each side path, leading to slight travel time differences of the split fillament, and when compounded with the 120° rotations might work well enough to cause some sorts of mixing. Varying the amount of offset for each wire would likely work even better as it'll introduce some chaos to the paths the filament needs to flow down. Just a thought! Good luck with the CMYK mixer idea!
The answer is simple, stick copper wires through your bread roles
Your Über Volcano nozzle looks sooooooooo tempting to try out! Wonder what the flow rate would be at 0.6 and 0.8 nozzle diameter, getting close to the supervolcano but much less mass? Exciting!
Or do this with a super volcano nozzle. Could get some truly insane volumetric flow rates
Man I love this concept, let's crank up that flow! Thanks for the shout out :D
Thanks for your great design!
Wow, that Uber Volcano looked insane.
You could probably make a solderless wire insert by drilling out the holes to exactly the same size or slightly less than the wire being added then freezing the wire (to shrink it) so it fits. As the wire heats back up to room temperature it will create a very good metal-metal contact. Essentially the same thing you would do with fitting bearings or bushings.
The biggest issue I could see with that is that brass (ie the nozzle) has a slightly higher thermal expansion than copper, so might loosen the wire at printing temperatures.
Aluminium has a slightly higher coefficient than brass, but of course has lower thermal conductivity than copper.
Just food for thought regarding the manufacture of home made CHT-esque nozzles
When we are trying to get good mixing in our pellet extruders we choose our dual 20mm extruder with about 10 stages of mixing sections. These are very extreme mixing sections, they look like aggressive toothed sections, and we introduce our fillers at different stages.
So you're saying that having something more like teeth in the flow path will create more mixing/turbulence?
@@infernaldaedra I think it would help with turbulence at least since the rounded wire acts more as a speed bump and just slows down the flow a bit instead of causing a lot of mixing/turbulence. Something more chaotic, a bladed shaped obstruction could be used to push the flow from side to side thus causing more turbulence instead of just a speed bump effect of the rounded wire.
Thanks for the interesting video! To drill holes in the uber volcano nozzle, you can take an aluminum hex jig, inside which you make a threaded hole for the nozzle, and drill holes perpendicular to the centerline that will guide you when drilling the nozzle.
Have you thought about using your router to mill slots in the threaded section of the nozzle? you could insert copper "blades" with sharpened edges to reduce resistance and increase surface area for heat transfer.
I was thinking he could possibly just file the wire down a little bit before inserting it
working with microfluidic devices for a while as well as trying to make my own microfluidics mixers, I truly feel home with your video. Thank you like always for your quality content, friendly delivery and top notch video quality
Loving these videos about not only the dual color filament but also these home made nozzles! Keep it up! Really interesting thought experiments and results!
You could have made the holes entering obliquely instead of vertically to further increase surface area whilst maintaining a shorter piece
Good point, it looks like that is what they do in the patent too.
Love these experiments!!! This why it's my favorite channel
Truly, you are doing some fascinating work and education materials for everyone to watch, which I am truly glad that you are here with us, stay safe and be healthy, my dear friend. ❤
Wow, really surprising results! Great work on testing this concept to the extreme. Love your videos!
The CMYK extruder idea sounds like a fun (but potentially frustrating) project! I wonder if it’s been done before, if not it certainly should be :)
it has been done many years ago. It's called the Diamond Hotend, and there's 3 and 5 color ones. See my post further up for my experiences with it! ;-)
You present the topic as a mature experimental physicist. You have attracted outstanding comments from your viewers which are a treat - no crappy comments. Well done, Stephan.
that mosaic blur intro made me giggle because I am a child. incredible stuff as always
GREAT video of the highest quality ‼️
Your explaining skills are superb! 👍
Along with great use of visual aids! 😊
(Loved your Rundstück example!) 🥰
I appreciate the sacrifice of a roll to demonstrate your point.
First time commenting on your channel. The Uber Volcano looked fantastic. Thank you for all of your efforts and videos. They are a great inspiration for 3D printing and building in general. Keep up the good work.
Awesome! Thank you!
This is an amazing channel, keep up the outstanding work!!!
AWESOME! As always :) Keep up the great work, Stefan - I really appreciate it...
Awesome and thorough work as always!!
1. If you want to drill holes in surfaces that are not perpendicular to the drill, consider using a center drill.
2. You could tap the cross holes and use threaded stock instead of round wire. This would increase contact with nozzle and filament.
3. In the US, as long as you don't sell (in this case) the nozzle you can build and use whatever you want.
Finally, your videos are uniformly excellent. Thank you.
In US and Canada, you can build prototypes out of any patent. You just can't sell products made from patents.
This video has insane production quality!
This channel always amazes me
When drilling holes, use a M6 nut predrilled as a guide. Works like a charm
1. Use silver plumbing solder, goes a lil hotter and is stronger. It also conducts more heat.
2. Use a torch to get the whole thing hot, the just let the solder wick in.
3. This is great. I'll post some of my custom nozzles once I get my printer working again.
4. Patent laws don't apply until you sell it. Experiment away!
Patent laws often still apply if you mod a nozzle and then start selling things made with that printer.
That is such a cool looking filament!!!
Nice! I did a similar test with a 2mm nozzle from 3D Solex and had the same results! Great video!
LOL - Burnt Rolls! Love your work !!!
Diamond hotend tutorial is something what im waiting for! I couldn't find full guide anywhere.
Pretty cool that I made it into the video. I actually found out on my own when I bought some green/white quantum for Christmas prints. If you have a large flat surface and use a octagram spiral for a top or bottom pattern it looks amazing.
Happy to include you 😉
Well done Stefan!
Fascinating! Thank you, as always! :-D
Hi Stefan.
Great video. I did my thesis on the topic of static mixing nozzles in college and thought I’d share my findings.
We tested the three-way Diamond hotend extruder you showed(10:12), the Zmorph dual filament head, the M3D Quad Crane nozzle, and finally a custom metal 3D printed nozzle with a static mixing design similar to epoxy mixing nozzles you showed(4:25).
Although the Dimond hotend, Zmorph and M3D Quad Crane fed several colored filaments into a single chamber, they didn’t add any turbulence or mixing agent to mitigate the “toothpaste effect” where colors were only visible at certain angles.
The 3D printed metal nozzle with epoxy mixing design by far had the best results. Would be happy to share images but can’t post pics on CZcams comment.
The ultimate pitfall that kept from continuous printing was leakage due to significant back pressure from from forcing the two filament through the mixing chamber. We never tested a dual-colored filament like the one you tested. Feeding this single filament could reduce back pressure and allow for continuous printing, just an idea.
Best,
Noah
P.S. I’ve been a big fan of your channel for years, thank you for your contributions to the 3D community.
This is awesome, I look forward to messing around with this. So glad your always pushing the industry further and testing with great accuracy. Could you talk about or look into wether or not keeping consistent volumetric flow rate close on all areas or none of them (ex: I find it is good to keep the volumetric flow rate close to equal from infill to walls, which even though sensors show not much change in temp I feel the nozzle it self would still loose some temp if only a micro second, but that micro second can be the difference between good and exquisite walls and start lines) learned some information about this from the channel Pro3D.
Contenu tout mignon, merci Stefan ❤️
Nice! I asked for this! I am glad you did it. EDIT: really surprised by the outcome.
That was super-interesting! 😊👍
Gotta love engineers: the only type of crazy people to film bread heating with a thermal camera.
Proud to be of that species.
Also that censored print at the start is very suggestive, love it.
I wonder about if you were to put slots in the walls of the nozzle threading and put a DE safety razor as what would split the filament rather than the soldered copper wire @CNC Kitchen? I also think putting flat sides on the Uber volcano would have a negative effect on "even" heat transfer.
Looks great! Now to get a bit of filament ....
It would seem that removing the material from the nozzle would reduce contact surface area thereby reducing the amount of heat transfer. I wonder how much heat transfer is lost on the flat surface areas and if the flow would be much better with less material being removed?
I Love the experiments. You can learn so much from doing them.
You touched on it briefly, when you mentioned the 'smooth' copper wire, but one of the features of the static melt mixers that you show at 4:38 are sharp corners. The corners provide places for eddies to form from.
Thanks alot for this...saved me alot of work trying to get mixing from my Geeetech a10m...I guess the higher viscosity of filaments makes it pretty much undoable...
Wow! Just awesome!
Milling flats on the thread is overkill plus it reduces heat transfer because you removed metal in a crucial area. The best way to do this is to start your holes with a stubby endmill the same size or a little larger than your desired finished diameter. The start hole created by the endmill only needs to be a few mm deep. Once you have your start hole created by the endmill you may now finish your through hole with a drill bit. For those who aren't familiar with machining metal, the reason you use an endmill rather than a drill bit is because and end mill is designed to cut on the outside and bottom therefor it will not deflect when it encounter side forces such as cutting into a threaded screw, as seen in this video. Using something called a Center Drill, otherwise known as a Combination Drill & Countersink, instead of an endmill would also work if you don't have a small endmill. Endmills are designed to work in milling machines so if you only have a drill press a center drill bit would be a better choice for starting your hole in the thread..
I would love to see how profiling the copper wire would do for the flowability and heat performance. Something like a tear drop or hydrofoil since the CHT nozzle has sharp ingress dividers.
Great, thanks!
When I saw the title I was like the flow is going to remain laminar. Then watched the video and was yeah exactly as expected.
You can use a spot drill to start the hole, and/or mill a tiny flat spot with a small end mill and drill into that. You have the cnc capability to that would be easy to do!
This is quite fascinating, and that Uber Volcano is something you'd expect to see in nightmares.
The mosaic censor in the intro caught me off guard for a second... 😳
I just wanted to say we have the same oven. Good choice!
At 6:25 you can see one of the copper wires wasn't soldered at all.
very good job!
Servus Stef, have you considered silver solder for fixing the wires? I forget the soldering temp (might be too high for copper), but it's much higher than led and way stronger too...
Also using a spotting drill (6-10mm short stiff drill bit) to start the holes prevents the walking you've experienced without having to mill the threads flat. Just need to make sure your work holding is rigid.
Another option is to thread a brass nut on the nozzle and use the flat sides to start your drill and just drill straight through.
Great videos and lots of fun watching the progress of your diy nozzles! Vielen Dank!
Would be really keen to see the 3-in-1-out nozzle performance for color changing and perhaps for color mixing.
I'm sure I am not the first to think of this. But I have not seen it mentioned, and I have watched 8,000 videos about 3d printing.
The idea is that as you print layers (arbitrary for example) 9, 10 and 11, you leave holes or slots in strategic places. Then on layer 12, you pump those holes full of hot filament and you have effectively created a rivet that securely connects layers 9-12 and improves layer adhesion.
You have run across this idea before? Willing to test it?????
Thanks for another great episode.
What a cool idea. Maybe send this idea to CURA so they can test it and maybe implement the idea into their software.
@@andreaspoulsen8017 I'm hoping Stefan spots it and goes on to test it. He has plenty of expertise to do it. If it works I would approach Cura at that time.
Another cool video. Can I ask where the video is on the prusament pc blend carbon is? Very curious on this filament, especially after your great standard pc blend video.
There is some really interesting physics going on here, it's awesome
What if you used a Tesla-valve in reverse? It'd obviously result in a lot of resistance and thus slow flowrate, but I would expect it to cause turbulance.
I saw the pun you threw in there. Nice work.
What if the wires are slanted along the flow direction?
I think that making at least the first* copper wire "sharp" or at least shaping it so it has a triangular´ish´ cross-section should help split the polymer with less resistance , increasing flow, and of course finding a way to make centred holes without having to remove half the contact area (the nut trick might work) would turn it in pretty much the best nozzle ever, Great Video.
*(the one that comes in contact with the molten polymer first)
Just to clarify, you can build anything patented that you want, you just can’t legally sell it.
You could spot mill circles in the nozzle and drill a tight hole, then just centre-punch the wire ends to expand them and seal the holes.
The dual color filament combined with 3d printing layer lines is actually a pretty convincing illusion of an anisotropic material.
Not specifically anything like iridiscence or pearlescence or brushed metal but something vaguely in that realm.
Your machining is pretty good. Id like to see you try skipping the soldering an use press fit pins, that wouldn’t need to go all the way through. Copper might be too soft though.
I tried making a diy CHT nozzle by just cutting a piece of copper sheet metal the width of the nozzle inlet and sticking it in there, theoretically splitting the flow in two. It seemed to work, I was printing pretty fast and thick in petg with no issues. That was actually the reason I went with this method - petg temps are too close to solder melting temps for my comfort.
Hi Stefan! I have some advice for your frozen bread rolls from some tests that I conducted a few months ago. Based on my findings, going for a lower temperature and a longer time will usually always improve bread quality, however, the temp-time ratio often is dependent to the volume of the bread since a bigger volume will need a longer time for the heat to reach the middle. That's all. great vid as always hope my advice helps!
So, to get a faster printing, we should use thinner filaments!
What a cool project. I guess I could have helped you with the soldering part.
Hey stefan, Your phrasing on mesh gave me an idea. Could you try adding a literal metal mesh between the nozzel and heat break? This would only require you to seal the mesh so there isn't any leaking in that area and no drilling but would also increase surface area
Would be interesting to try multi color printing by rotating the y table or the nozzle itself around the z axis.
This gonna be good
I'm actually really surprised by the lack of mixing despite the round nature of the copper wire obstructions in the flow path.
At what level of viscosity would it start to have turbulent flow and begin mixing?
Very excellent video, Stefan. Thank you.
Won't such wide (why so wide?) flat sides reduce the thermal conductivity (of the heat block to the nozzle)?
tip for drilling, use a centre drill, it does exactly what its name tells you, drill a hole in the centre, with a angle so the reggular drills can fall into the exact centre
Incredible! Your DIY nozzle is even outperformed CHT nozzle.
Did E3D actually send you a Revo beta to test? Would be curious to see its volumetric flow against all other nozzles you tested so far.
Hi, have considered using heatsinks and fans on the stepper motors for any of your FDM/FFM 3D printers?
Great vid again Stefan, any chance of seeing any kind of comparison to see if there's any progression with the number of wires added, and see if there's a law of diminishing returns (say 1 to 8 wires)?
Also, I'd look to minimise the flat surface milling if possible, and maybe add some thermal paste to counteract the reduction in surface area for heat transfer from the block :)
Hallo Stephan,
Dein Deutsch-Dialekt kommt richtig geil.
I am taking fluid mechanics and this video was on point jaja
Super! Why not cut screw thread only near holes?
As soon as you said a mixing nozzle I was thinking a full color system then you said it, haha! Maybe mix materials as well for stronger and or easier prints.
would be probably easier to solder the wires to the nozzle using a mini torch to heat the nozzle up to the solder flow temps. Similar to how the copper pipes are (were) soldered.
Great video as usual, thanks for sharing your knowledge!
I think it's great that you show the mistakes as well.
Milling down the sides of the über volcano nozzle probably reduced the heat conduction into the nozzle somewhat. If you can figure out how to drill holes without milling the sides down, maybe your nozzle would perform even better.
Also the wire arrangements and the shal of the wire could be significantly improved :) I think this could actually be a very practical concept.
@@infernaldaedra I'm not clear what "shal" means, but I think if the wire was made to have an elliptical or even rectangular cross section, even more heat could be transferred into the filament by the wires, due to the increased surface area.
Do what you want to your own equipment. Cool video as usual.
Another guy on CZcams made a 6-input hot end with the express goal of doing fully color prints by color-mixing. He hasn't found a passive mixing system that blends the colors well. His best efforts did show improved mixing, but also took forever to purge and had bad stringing.
My intuition is that color-mixing FDM printing will require an extra motor to spin a mixing blade/screw in the hot end. Just have to figure out how to seal the spinning shaft...
I built myself a (mixing) Diamond Hotend printer (based on a RUMBA, an Anet A8 and 3 Titan extruders) like 4 years ago and I was one of only a handful of people that seems to have gotten it to work and print a lot of stuff - back when S3D was pretty much the only Slicer that properly supported more than 2 colors. It was a *very* interesting experience, and I definately recommend you try it! Mixing nozzles are very weird beasts, not just because of the toothpaste effect, but also because you need to be aware of stuff like unused liquid filament starting to bubble after a while. Mixing nozzles are insanely fast at switching colors, cause you don't need to move the head away and the purge volume is TINY, you can often just hide it in the infill and ditch the purge tower completely (also good cause mixing nozzles string like hell!). There's also some VERY odd behaviour like color pushback up unused channels, meaning you need to purge more the longer the color was inactive!
Any thoughts on a nozzle system which would allow end users to create their own dual color filament. Rather than feeding in one filament that is already dual color the nozzle would take two filaments and line them up next to each other.
Basically a kind of a Diamond nozzle which he shows at the end could probably create this effect. There are also dual nozzles around.
Instead of flattening the screw threads of the nozzle, it might have been simpler to screw a hex nut onto the nozzle and drill through the nut.