Are we riding bikes that are TOO big for us?
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- This thought has been on the back of my mind for awhile now and decided to make a video about it. I see many people basing their size decisions on the seated climbing position without making proper cockpit adjustments. What do you guys think? For those on the border, did you size UP or DOWN on your last bike purchase. Any regrets?
My instagram - / mtbsavant
Mentioned in this video:
jaredgraves...
geometrygeeks.bike/ - Sport
Right now we have to buy whatever they might hopefully have in stock!
I feel the same way. I just bought a new carbon fat bike and I had to buy a large because the medium was not available until after summer. I have shortened the stem so that helps.
Still relevant lol
Yeah this is my experience as well. The bell curve for sizing peaks at large so bike shops bias their stock larger. I’m looking for a small bike and large is always available and i occasionally find a medium. If i can’t find a small anytime soon then I’ll be sizing up to a medium and here we are.
It used to be where everyone wanted to ride enduro bikes because it was the best "do-it-all" bike, good enough at climbing to get you to the really gnarly trails. Now, everything has become more capable and some people are going back to trail/AM bikes to get that playfulness back. I love smashing through chuck as much as the next person, but after going from an over-sized bike to a more nimble trail bike I don't miss all that bulk.
Great insight as usual.
Same opinion here to the point, fellow human.
I would have thought that from the marketing I'm seeing from manufacturers, and the reviews from the likes of Bike and Pinkbike, that we were full on or even still coming into the longer travel enduro type bike craze. Personally, I'm very happy to have options such as the new Fuel ex in a M/L.
That said, I'm on the east and could be different demographic
Bikes have been too small for years.
I have a "full blown" dh bike on 29er geometry; and an "old" (as far as its setup) "enduro" rig on 26". If i think i'm going to be smashing the ramps then i'm obviously going to chose the smaller nimble bike.
But if the clock comes out and i have to get down fortbil asap then the maths suggests I should chose the "big bike".
I have to admit. I had more fun on the likes of a demo on 26" than I do on the longer heavier 2019 model. But does fun count against a clock and a podium?
I’m eagerly awaiting the inevitable evolution into a full reverse-recumbent Superman position.
LMAO
Haha... next season in the tour de france surely? Not off road.. we need twin shock and ramps the size of mountains... road gap from ben nevis onto snowdon anyone?
With a 26" and a 20" wheel LOL
Pretty sure Batman did it so it must work
I have been ruminating over this question for so long and so many test rides. This video was really helpful. Thanks!
They keep making the bikes slacker and longer for the trails that keep getting smoother and flatter. Makes perfect sense...
#overbiked
Trails are getting smoother and flatter? You riding in the prairies ?
@@J-bt5jw Riding in the mountains. Join a bike club and see what is actually happening to technical trails.
@@SnootchieBootchies27 not out here my man. Been living in BC for a long time now and there is a lot of steep, technical, and slabby stuff, Stuff you can get really hurt on. Seems they have only just gotten rid of the skinnies. Those aren't as common as they were in the early 2000's
@@SnootchieBootchies27 where are you riding ?
I'm a 190cm (6'3) strong rider and ride a canyon spectral L (460 reach, 1204 wheelbase) 27,5'er which I much prefer over bigger bikes. I like my bike to respond directly to both my input and the trail input - exposing exactly what I am doing on the trail. Bigger bikes and 29ers just respond less to everything which I dislike for many reasons.
Basically, a longer, bigger wheeled bike feels like that loving parent that does 80% of the work and still tells you you did evreything amazing. The shorter, smaller wheeled bikes are like the tough trainers that'll be upfront and honest about everything you do.
Great video subject, and an opinion that really needs to be heard more IMO!
Man what is your weight? Im 1.90 just like you, and i cant decide between a Large frame or XL frame. Im skinny, not much heavy. So do you think that a Large frame gonna be good fit? By the way, is Hardtail mtb. Thanks!
I'm 189cm and ride a XL Tallboy. It feels fine but lately I've been thinking of getting one in a size large cause it might be more fun to ride a smaller bike.
I am 5'11" and went with a small with my new Santa Cruz. It has the exact same dimensions as a medium I had in another bike from a few years back.
Bike geometry as it relates to the human body was figured out in the 70s. Every attempt to redefine it always takes away from harmonious fit in favor of some claimed performance or efficiency benefit, and almost always involves stretching the body into uncomfortable and lower-performance positions.
I just happened to stumble onto this video, and what funny timing! Like you, I am between sizes at 5-10, and was just discussing this very topic with a friend and came to the same conclusions as did you! Thanks for voicing your perspectives and putting them to video.
One of the best videos out there (if not THE best) on modern frame geometry and how it effects our ride for the better and worse. Thanks!
Wow, thanks!
100% agree 6’2” 36.5” inseam on Mach 429 Trail XL... 4 years later my wheelbase is on par with M-L sizes. Overall love my bike and would def not get XL for new bikes.
I ride what ever my budget feels comfortable with.
Adapt to what you have is always an option. Not always about trends or what's the newest.
i feel you
Wow, feels good to read this. Worried I ordered wrong size. I ordered M and I am 5'9, wanted to go for L but wasn't in stock and now I feel good. It's getting delivered today.
That was actually a hard lesson for me to learn. Was fine with my largish Diamondback, enjoyed some stretch while running a short stem. Then, did NM where there were no trails. Made it a bit of a struggle. Have a medium Jekyll now.
Love this! Thanks for bringing this topic up!
Great video! I'm 5'10" so between sizes in most brands. I opted for a Medium when I purchased my Trek Farley and overall I think I will be happy with that, but I will likely swap my stem and handlebar to give me a little more room.
So funny this popped up. After 3 years on larges I just finally realized mediums generally fit me much better
Better late than never
How tall are you??
Me too crooked
How tall are you? I'm 6gt prefer medium
This honestly answered so many questions i had about my bike, after upgrading various parts.
Excellent video! I am going to agree with you. Case in point. I have a Transition Sentinel. The front wheel is kicked out to near DH bike levels. When sized per Transitions recommendation, the cockpit felt kind cramped when sitting on the bike in static conditions. But out on the trails, I quickly realized I am on the right size because anything larger would have simply made the bike even more cumbersome to navigate in the turns, especially in switchback settings. I bet this issue would be even more pronounced in beginner riders who are still working on their skills.
Great video. It's refreshing to hear someone recommend possibly downsizing when in between sizes. Yep, riding style and terrain are a big factor. Most videos are of guys blasting downhill at speed, but lots of us ride in tighter, slower, more technical terrain too. Btw, Phil Kmetz is another rider who prefers to go smaller. Thanks for the video 👍
Thnx Manny.
Great video. I finally figured all this out after 8 months of demos, setup and parts changes. Fine tuning your layout takes time. Making the stem shorter definitely aids it's maneuverability. But I have to say I'm no fan of feeling cramped. I'll gladly sacrifice some control for comfort.
This is a great video, very informative! thanks for posting!
Awesome stuff man! One of your best videos imo.
Now over 50, Stability and longevity in the sport is the goal for me. I went from bone breaking crashes on a medium hard tall, to a bulldozer of a bike extra large , plus tires and full suspension. Given up about a minute per mile but having more fun.
Right on. Fun is what it's all about.
@@user-ez9id7td4b i'm 60 n on a 98 schwinn s-10, dont jump w/it tho.. :)
Bigger the better
I'm 45 problem with knees (worked for army) I bought SC Nomad 4 - XL. I'm 6.1. For first time I felt that the bike it's too heavy. Started rebuilding it. Changed wheels and tires from 2.5 on 2.25 save 2.5 kg. Changed group set for trs+ save other nearly 1kg. Changed travel on front fork from 170mm to 160mm. Nice easy climbing everywhere (using 36t chainring)Now the Nomad 4 have nearly 11kg aluminium frame. No problem every day long travelling (50 miles) The bike is super in XL. I love it.
Bigger bikes will give you that confidence inspiring feeling and they tend to handle more rough stuff easier because of their stability. If you want safety and longevity, the longer bigger bike would be wise, if you fall into the "in between size" area. IF you want to wheelie, jump, rip turns and get some serious air, a smaller size might be the choice.
I really like your video and the clear points you make. I went from my Yeti SB5 to my current Santa Cruz Bronson V3 for many of the reasons you mention here - high speed stability over fast rooty trails - only to re-discover my Klein Attitude Comp recently with it 26" wheels and short, but fun and checkable geometry. For me climbing is an important ingredient of my riding and I have really enjoyed re-discovering line choice and nimble turning through trees etc. The last 6 rides have been on the Klein. I will be back on the Santa Cruz soon, but.....
Lesson is here to have 2 bikes. 1 short and 2 long ;)
Great Video. I mad between small and medium. I sized down for agility. My worst crash happened
on a 29 er medium ripmo. It was so long I could barely get the front end up. Yes it was fast and much more stable, but in the end maneuverability issues was the enemy with a larger bike.
Loved this video. It would be very enriching to see a video talking about the importance of chainstay length for this, especially for tall riders.. and even more, tall riders with proportionally long legs. The body proportions, especially on tall riders can come into play for this A LOT and be a VERY important factor.
So glad you put out this video! I’m 5 10 and the charts put me at a large but I wanted a bike to throw around. Having a background in bmx I didn’t want a large but your video sold me on the medium! Thanks for the info!
Travis, check on the brands. Their sizings are not all equal. Some run smaller and some run larger. So a medium may feel really good in one brand and a medium on another may feel way too cramped, like your knees might hit the bars.
Hey man did you end up going with a medium after all and how do you like it?
I am really glad you made this video. 🤩 I've had these same feelings & couldn't understand why i felt everyone else has it wrong.
I am between sizes (180cm) & my 2017 M bike felt a bit small, so I up sized to a 2019 L - actually due to the geo changes it was like going from M to XL!
8 months later & I find the L size so tiring & clumsy, so impossible to maneuver I can't wait to get rid of it & go back to a shorter bike.
But !! all the new bikes have my height as WAAY too tall for an M. Plus the ETL is now shorter than my old M bike on many of these models.
I am trying to find something like the sc5010 2018 L frame where the Reach 445 & ETL 620 are a reasonable compromise. Their new 5010 M is larger than the 2018 L! & that's the same story across most brands.
You've put way more thought into the sizing than most people :)
Dude, I feel the same! I'm 200cm and I have the feeling that my Rockhopper XXL (23") it's just not on the right spot.
A good video. So much about mountain biking comes down to riding style, personal preference and age that you really need to figure out what works for you. I'm 54 years old and put a priority on comfort and staying out of the hospital. I'm 5'6" and can ride either large or medium bikes. I currently have an older Giant Reign (large) and absolutely love it in spite of it being technically out of date. I've set the bike up for a more upright posture because I'm simply more comfortable overall as I spend more time on the seat than standing. Younger, more aggressive riders probably wouldn't be happy with my set up but I wouldn't be happy with theirs. Don't let anyone tell you how your bike should feel. You need to figure it out for yourself. And don't be afraid to try different handlebar/stem combos. Finding your "sweet spot" can make a huge difference in the ride. I used cheap Chinese bars and stems to find the geometry that worked. I find the Chinese stuff great for test purposes. Not trusting the long term durability of those parts I replaced them with name brand components as soon as I knew what I wanted. I found that even with the same dimensions name brand bars (Spank Spike Race Bars in my case) will give you a better "feel" than the cheap stuff as well. In fact, I really like the Spank bars and highly recommend them.
Great video. I’m 6’4”. I’ve been riding for over 30 years. When I could find an XL, that’s what I bought. 6 months ago I found Trek had XXL bikes. The fit is sweet. I’m to old for those all out down hills any more. You don’t heal like you use to. As far as cornering, I have no problem. As far as climbing, no problems there also👍
I'm 5'10" and went with a medium when I bought my bike last year precisely because it was lighter and easier to maneuver around corners. Coming from a BMX background the bigger bikes feel cumbersome to me.
Lots of BMX guys sizing down.
My instinct exactly.and I may next time.but anything seem big next to an 1982 supergoose I ride
I am 5'10.5" and just ordered a medium. Rode a Medium SB150 and a Large SB130. I also have a bmx racing background. I feel like I will be able to put the bike where I want it and control my speed better for corners. I hope I made the right choice. I plan to push the seat back for climbing and run a 50mm stem. Hope I made the right choice. I feel like the large has too long of a wheel base to get the pop I am looking for.
@@ImmortalWrekcage Felt the same way. On longer travel bikes I tend to size down because they're so capable anyway so additional stability in straight line isn't worth the xtra effort it takes to throw it around.
I got into my first MTB (a large Trek Marlin 6) to get my feet wet and see what I like/want to change. Years ago I rode flatland so I figured going from a 99 Hoffman EP with 0 offset fork/stem at 5'11" it just felt awkward because it's a 29er. I love my bike but I am definitely going to be seeking out a Medium or Medium-Large to test ride before buying again. Probably an X Caliber 8 or Roscoe. 27.5+ vs 29 is another thing I'm not 100% sure of just yet.
I’m 6’3 and ride a xl now. Last bike was a large. I agree with you on what ever bike you get on you will have fun. They both have strengths and weaknesses.
Great video!! Keep it up!!
For the first time many have a CHOICE to size up and down. Pretty cool.
Im 6'4" with long limbs and couldnt be happier with the bigger bikes and 29'' wheels we have now
6’4 with 36’ inseam and modern MTB are the only reason that I’m still riding. My heart is still on the road, but road bikes are just not made for tall guys. On a slack MTB I actually feel like I’m “in” the bike, not perched high on top of it.
I am 6’1” and ride XL on both my hardtail and dual. At times I struggle with this very question and charts say I am between L and XL. But I am super comfy riding in my bikes as well. Adjustability in the cockpit has made this possible, and I can still play all day.
@@Poler777 I have to disagree there: I'm just pushing 6ft 6 and ride quite happily on a 60cm frame and can see some big manufacturers also hitting 61, 62 and 64cm. Choice is a little narrower, but it is there.
I am 182cm too, I ride a Nicolai/Geometron G1 size Large with 515mm reach, 62 deg head angle. I love it, I knew what I wanted, and now I know it's what I wanted for sure, I just had to get used to the new bike by practicing the balance points, so I focused on that for few days, now I can do everything I did on the old bike.
I have saddle tip above BB, that's what works for my butt, and the mid foot position.
my previous bike was way too short for me.
for me this bike climbs great, and is easy in to get around in tight corners, it's a misconception that big bikes like these are not, I guess it depends how extreme you go with sizing, many bike brands don't have enough sizes, and my bike is longer than most of the other brand's largest frames.
Omg thank you! Listening to people talk straight numbers and seeing short people practically laying down on mediums with 800mm bars is making me wonder what happened. My bike is actually pretty short in terms of reach for a “Modern” medium bike but it’s a bit long for a small and I found most medium too big and most smalls too small, it has a shorter chain stay so it acts like the NS small I wanted but I don’t feel cramped seated or stood up. Ride what’s comfortable not cool!
Such a good video!! I’m at 5’10 5’11 with flat Vans on. Have always ridden the smaller Mediums. Every shop says I should be on a large. Test rode a Large Niner Jet 9 And it felt cozy in the seat to bar relationship. But overall felt very lethargic and slow mannered to me. Then hopped on a medium Trance and holy hell, a hair tight in the cockpit but was so much more fun to ride and jump. It actually responded to input. I think I’ll stick with mediums
You can cheaply change stem lengths and seat locations to get the room you want.
Thanks for the video, really enjoyed it. Shakes me up, so so so unsure what I want to buy, but definitely something worth thinking about.
What website was that to compare the two bikes at 1:03?
Geometry comparison site now linked in the description :)
At 6'4", every full bike build I have bought, most recently, a Trek Full Stache 8 plus size 29er. The problem for tall riders is that the bars are wayyy to low for me. I have had to add a 2" riser bar and a 110mm 25 degree rise stem to get me in a comfortable riding position. When a company specs a bike, they keep the stem and bar height the same for every size bike. A med with a 90mm 0 rise stem and an Xl frame with the same set up. For me to ride a large 19" frame, my seat post would need to be a 450mm in order to get me a full leg extension. A 35" inseam is difficult to fit Off the Shelf....
Thanks for putting to words what I was beginning to suspect from researching my first full sus bike. I was looking at Fezzari La Sal Peak, which has really high seat tube, but a couple reviewers were noting their "normal" size felt like it had short reach, even though they really liked it.
Also wondering how these factors from the video might relate to reviewers who talk about feeling "on" the bike vs "in" the bike?
I am 6'1" and got a 18.5" (Medium/Long) frame on my XC bike and am quite happy I did. Fits perfectly. I notice a lot of shorter guys going with the larger frames, and it just doesn't look very comfortable.
Glad it worked for you. In the end ride what makes you comfortable.
I'm 174 cm and I ride L (20") size bike which is aimed for 175-185 cm and it feels great. When buying I tested both M and L sizes, and M was way too small for me. I was basically in sitting straight up on it.
That's good to hear , I'm the same height and was thinking maybe my large is too big lol . Getting on and off the thing is harder , but I think when I start to peddle it would be better .
I'm the same height. Getting on it feels like getting on a horse but one you start pedaling it feels more stable and comfy on the Large
@@mostlycycling007 Not hard to get use to aye .
Thanks for someone finally making this video great point and topic I recently decided to size down on new fuel ex 9.8 and couldn’t be happier
Glad I could help
This is super interesting, and very helpful. I'm 5'-9" and about 165 lbs. and very fit for age 61. Since the beginning of the Covid thing I have taken up biking, first on a cruiser bike with a springer front end (which I have actually been using for trail/gravel riding, but not very successfully). I've just purchased an 8-10 year old Giant Rainier with a medium frame, thinking this was a good starter bike for me. Not being all that familiar with mountain bikes, I was surprised at how small the bike seemed and how short the wheel base was; I was concerned that maybe I should have waited for a bike with a large frame. I gave it my first go this morning on a 15 mile ride in SW Austin, TX. After riding it, the bike seemed quite nice and seemed to fit me pretty well, and lo and behold, seemed to corner well in tight areas. Watching this video alleviated some of my concern that I bought too small a bike. Thanks!
Great analysis and thought. Thank you!
Lee McCormack at Lee Likes Bikes, a world-class instructor, racer, and analytical mind, has been suggesting we're riding bikes that are too big for us for several years now. Check it out. Full disclosure: I have no ties/connections at all to Lee Likes Bikes.
I'm 6', between sizes for the 2018 SC Hightower I ride....and went with the L vs. XL. Very happy with that choice.
Height in cm x 2.5 will get your desired reach is what Lee teaches.
very relevant topic..the basic rule that i follow is that "you can make a small bike bigger but you can't make a big bike smaller"..i recently got a specialized stumpjumper 27.5 (small)..although their sizing chart based on my height 5'8 (29 inseam) recommended a size medium..though initially i thought that the bike felt small, after adjusting the seat height, and moved it back a bit, then replacing the stem with a slightly longer one, the bike now feels more comfortable and responsive...
Great way to put it!
Finally someone sees my point! When I was a younger boy, I had a Stingray; yea, taller Handel bars and banana seat. It gave the ability to make jumps, and come down on the back wheel, and the banana seat made it where I could slide in position for riding, and a comfortable landing.
When I was about 40, I remembered that stingray and put a banana seat on a Mongoose bike. I had a better leg position and could slide back a bit closer to the back axel and made jumps easier to handle. I wish they made the saddle a bit longer so I can sit a bit lower and have the full leg extension for jumps and fast, Sharp turns.
Yep there's no free lunch when it comes to geo. Everything comes with tradeoffs
I’m 5’9 usually on size medium. I’ve went from a wheelbase of 1156mm (whyte t130) to 1300mm (pole evolink 158). A massive difference. But what I’ve noticed the feeling of the cockpit is a bit similar, only the riding felt relatively different. The whyte is a super playful bike but the pole is more stable but it can be playful with more effort.
I ride in the uk, not many straight lines but lots of corners. My latest bike is the shortest 650b hardtail I could get, the manufacturer made an XS for me as a one off. it’s faster than any modern geo bike because I can throw it around like a ninja. I find that the longer bikes are only good at one job (going fast in a straight line) and to be fair as I cannot manipulate them as easily they are like riding a cruise liner with all the manoeuvrability of one. The shorter bike can switch lines almost telepathically.
I have a picture of a ninja on a MTB in my head thanks to your comment!
Good call. At 189cm I am in between L and XL on many manufacturers listings. I like the All Mountain / Enduro rides but I also want to keep it playful. My current ride is a Trek Slash and originally the bike frame was matched to a 150mm fork but over time they put a 160 on it. Might be good for hard charging the steeps but it can be floaty in milder trails or climbs. Thinking of reducing it to a 150 to see how it feels.
Then there is the Ultimate Slacked out bike from 10 years in the future - the Grim Doughnut. Personally, unless you are riding vertical downs - you can go too slack in ones head tube angle LOL.
I really hope the Grim Doughnut doesn't become a real thing :)
The problem with slackening is that the weight goes up. Every time material scientists make metal lighter for the same strength, bike designers have the green light to slacken. There's no such thing as too slack, as long as overall bike weight stays the same. The Grim donut is too heavy, because it uses metal from 2020, not from 2030 or 2050. It's not too slack. See the difference?
I just saw one bike model where the carbon edition is slacker. And the "special edition" carbon version with a different type of more expensive carbon, is even slacker. Same model, same year, 3 different slacknesses! Makes the point a bit clearer.
I bought a used Wreckoning that had a 170 fork up front. I rode it in the XLow setting with that big fork for 7 months. I decide to switch out the air spring to reduce the travel on the fork to 160 and switch to the higher flip chip setting.
The bike totally changed. It became more playful and poppy and I found that I was using more of the usable travel on the fork. The bike also climbed better.
The 170 was good for bike park settings and dumbed down the trail I usually ride. I love the current settings and will never go back to a longer, lower, slacker bike. It is now the perfect bike for me. It doesn’t get me to the top of the mountain very fast. But downhill, it’s the best bike I’ve ridden.
Great video.
That's awesome my Mega's flip chiip is also set to the "high" position. Much prefer the feeling there.
I went from a 2003 Gary Fisher Sugar 2+ Disc to a 2019 Giant Trance 2. It's amazing how different full suspension has changed. I find that the cockpit feels tight but I'm still trying to dial it in. It feels a little small but rides like it's on rails. I think I'd rather have it this way for the trails I ride.
I’m 5’10 and have been riding M for years until I finally sized up to L on two of my current bikes. Pivot Mach 6 & Firebird 29. I shortened the stem on both to same saddle bar length as on my older M bikes and I haven’t looked back. For me personally the increased stability and ride quality on the downs at least, are more than outweigh the minimal loss of maneuverability on the ups and tight trails. More riders in my area are sizing up on the newer AM/Enduro bikes.
Right on glad it's working out for you. How awesome is it that we finally have a choice?!
Good info, nice job 👍 in comments on different videos I get the impression that some people are almost arrogant or proud about riding lg frames. This is ridiculous.
I didn't mention this in the video but the male ego definitely comes into play here to some degree. Someone in-between a small and medium doesn't want to be "small". :) Happy to hear some brands moving away from this nomenclature
True that
Interesting video, often suggested that people are riding bikes that were too big. I’m 5’11 and ride a medium and everyone says it’s too small however, it’s so much easier throw around.
Interesting to watch
I'm with you on choosing bikes for how they descend and adjusting for climbing. So much comes down to what we're used to, however. I started out as a gravity rider so the same size enduro bike feels very nimble because of it's light weight, but still stable thanks to the slack hta. Unless you have a very long torso, don't size up if you want a bike that will descend.
This is a really great point! Thanks for pointing this out, now I have to do some maths!
Maths is hard
Totally agree on the "maths" because many of these brands have different reach even though they are labeled S, M, L, XL, XXL, etc.
I'm 5'7"..can fit both small and med..I have a size large Revel Rail 😅..amazingly, it feels fine (previous bike was a small giant trance)..thanks to the geo maybe? 😁
There's no right and wrong really. Ride what makes you comfortable. Humans are extremely adaptable ;)
I’m 5’7 aswell and I ride a large Norco fluid fs and it feels amazing (I also think it’s because of the geo.)
Your video was helpful! I"m in between a S and M frames, and want to go up to a 29r wheel (SC Hightower or Revel Rascal). The problem is that there is such low inventory that I cant ride both sizes... I feel as though an M frame on a 29r might be a little big for turns, in comparison with a small.... But I liked your final advice about looking at the overall size of the wheelbase to chain length... TY!
Thanks for the video. I am 5' 9" and recently purchased a medium Siskiu T8. I was use to my 20 year old Cannondale F600 hardtail large frame and this bike felt cramped at first. But then I got to poking around and found explanations for that and it all makes sense, this video helped. Film at 11.
Still happy with your medium?
@@miguelfragoso7023 I am, although it suddenly developed a creaking sound last weekend that I think is coming from the head set or the fork. I'll take it out again this weekend and if it still makes the noise I'm thinking I'll take the head set apart, clean and grease it, and see if that takes care of it.
I just sold my Large Niner Rip 9 yesterday because I always felt it was just a tad big for me even though when I purchased it 5 years ago I thought that I should be riding a Large due to my height. I'm 6 ft.
I've ridden numerous of my buddies mediums and they just feel right to me. I feel like I'm in the cockpit rather than on top of it like on my Niner.
Needless to say, my next bike will be a medium.
@Bun Bun Wow. A small, really? What bike brand/model if you don't mind my asking? I have never considered anything smaller than a medium for myself but then again I've never ridden a small so I have no idea what that would feel like.
Why did you choose a small over the medium considering you are 6'2"?
There is one big point missing... a huge benefit of „new school“ is steering, once you start altering your seated position by removing stack or adding stem length you loose the advantage of effective trail, having your weight way behind the front axle, leaning into steep sections and corners instead of „riding of the back of the bike“. It is true that you have to change a lot in the way you ride. Instead of steering with the bars, constantly changing your body position to fight your center of gravity getting to far behind or over the bike, you are more leaning your whole body in in the way you choose to go. It’s no surprise that excellent pro riders that are used to common geometry choose smaller bikes, still the objective benefits of new school are true. You really only loose agility when trying to ride like you would on a short bike, once you commit to not „sitting on top/steering“ but just lean „around“ tight corners you‘ll find it’s much easier, you will feel more confident and ultimately less exhausted physically and mentally.
Great points, I suspect many pro riders size down because they're trying to strike a balance between stability ( long bike) and agility (short bike). So much of racing is conserving energy and many will reach a point where the stability is good enough and anything longer just wastes energy in the corners.
@@mtbsavant5414 richie is also a bit of an outlier being a plus 200 lbs guy jared falls into this category to, they are so strong on a bike that they can physically muscle a less stable shorter bike to stay on line. guys like sam hill will really benefit from the longer wheel base and reach of the modern geo to reduce fatigue over a whole day of racing.
@@thekernel114 Exactly!
Great video! I went back and forth for weeks this year when buying a new bike. Large or medium Rocky Mountain Instinct BC. Ended up with a medium as I'm right in between both sizes standing at 5'9". Been riding the heck out of it and I can say I am pleased with the smaller size. Going fast in a straight line is one thing, but if you can manoeuvre and hold that speed through corners your overall times will be faster I reckon.
Yep turns is what separates the boys from men
Rocky bikes definitely run small though
I agree, I'm coming off a M/L 26" slash and demoed a 2020 Enduro S3/M and couldn't believe how big it was.
I wonder if we're close to bikes settling on the perfect geo. The only thing that will change in the future is components and suspension design.
I think we're in a sweet spot personally.
The industry will bring back old geo for more playful bikes. It's been going on for years and years. They won't settle on one geo guarantee it for sure. Sadly... We just need toride your bikes and enjoy doing what we love.
Poulin I have to disagree, if you take, for instance, the Specialized Stumpjumper, which even in it’s Evo iteration is by no means the most progressive bike, the change since like 30 years is constant, it’s going in one direction and it’s significant. Mountainbikes actually have never been designed from ground up, but where always a mix of existing standards and geometry attempts, it all changed when wheelsize and axle standards where altered, giving designers finally the possibility to actually design the bicycle for intented use instead of slowly fixing issues with an existing platform, trying to not irritate customers with heads full of prejudice. One by, 28“ wheels, mullet, extrem wheelbase and head angles have been around for decades, only the market demanded a Progression people could follow through over time, instead of admitting that the basic concept really wasn’t all that great.
Given that current geometries are generally designed to be the best of two worlds (up vs down) then perhaps dynamic geometries will be the next thing?
Just like what happened to the Golf industry.. yes I believe we are seeing a flattening of a geometry development curve! Golf clubs from 10 years ago are just as good as today’s clubs in my Professional opinion.. used to be that the clubs helped the player get a little bit better at their weaker areas, but even with perfect technology it only helps the player as much as they are willing to help themselves learn the equipment.. so in reality it really just comes down to the player using whatever equipment makes them most comfortable and confident and that’s what creates a better Golf game! So it’s not the clubs that make the player.. it’s the player that chooses the clubs to fit his or her game the best. Much like the bikes now.. Geo is getting so dialed in it’s all personal preference at this point and it’s pretty hard to choose a “wrong bike” just the “right bike for the right riding category”
I'm a "tweener" size-wise, between small & medium. I just got a medium bike, and it's been kind of hard to handle. I think I would've been happier with a small frame.
What are the reach and wheelbase numbers? I'm 5'6/168cm and tried the Nukeproof Dissent DH bike in both the small and medium sizes. Nukeproof's size chart said I should be on a medium (445mm reach and 1242mm wheelbase) but it felt too long and cumbersome. The size small (20mm shorter than the M) felt much more fun to ride and throw around, so that's what I went with.
I'm 1.83m and I choose an Cannondale Habit 6 size M. I choose this size based on the measurements of the bike from the site and compared with my previous bike (Cannondale Scalpel SL). I knew that I was choose right but I was a bit skeptical. Then my bike fitter recommended the size M too, and I took my chances. Now I'm riding with that size M with a 125mm dropper and it's great for me right now. Right choice for sure.
Nice video! I sized down on my ripley v4. 5’11 and I chose medium. Glad I did it!
Ride what makes you happy!
5'9 and ride a 19.5 Slash. Thought I have exceedingly long legs for my height (longer you look the goofier I get).
xinferis chief yeah but the slash has kind of outdated geometry. It lands closer to the category of “old bikes” referenced in this video. 64.3 degree seat tube angle....
The only measurement I care about really is the top tube length. It's the most important measurement for comfort in my opinion. There's a window where you can adjust with stem length and saddle rails. Everything else can shuffle and change so long as the top tube length stays in the right range. I do prefer longer reach though for downhill bikes. I had a bike with 420mm reach and now I have one with 450mm reach and I definitely do find the 450mm reach to be more comfortable for me where it matters (downhill). I don't notice the long reach to be detrimental anywhere else as the top tube is still the same length, and I'm still using the same stem. It's expensive to learn what you prefer though, shame it's not easier to try before you buy :(
Yeah I hear you. Most demo events are rushed and won't take the time to properly adjust the cockpit for every rider. Some shops only allow parking lot tests. Bikes are expensive investments and some will unfortunately get it wrong because someone on the internet said you should do x.
When I got my Giant E Reign last summer it was a L and it felt comfortable. I went from a XC bike to an enduro (80mm to 160mm). The bike inspires confidence going down hill fast but its too long in reach and wheelbase.....I lose maneuverability when I'm going down hard steep rocky stuff and I can't respond as quickly when I get thrown off line. I also have a hard time getting the front wheel off the ground and riding tight singletrack. I'm going to get the newer 2021 in a medium, its also mullet which I believe will give the the roll over confidence I want. Lee's video made this concept easier to understand. I have 1 bike and want versatility, its easier to modify up in size than to go down in size.
Yup used to ride larges, downsized to mediums with contemporary styles, really helped with flickability. Currently on a medium transition patrol, best bike so far for my body size and style.
How tall are you?
Richie Rude is actually about 6 feet at 182 cm, I am 5'10 at 177cm, I also prefer the smaller bikes, if I was on a Yeti SB150, I would get the small.
You heard it here first folks.
A small? Now I am even more confused.
Hey Jordan I’m 5’4 and I ride a Medium Specialized Enduro I love the feeling of it and I think it fits me better than a small even though I should be on a small and since I’m only 13 I’m going to grow into the bike by next year what are you thoughts should have I gotten a small and I demo a small and medium for a week each and I still liked the medium more
I agree too. This is especially true, if you have longer legs, but shorter upper body. I'm gonna buy a new hardtail frame and pretty sure its gonna be size S. Literally every brand forces you towards bikes that are too large. I would rather put a longer stem on than feeling too stretched out due to the long reach that you cannot change.
i'm 6,2 and I ride a xxl orange alpine 6 and a xl orange stage 6
Man, just saw this video and wish I caught it earlier. I read through almost all the comments and am shocked nobody talked about pedals to bar measurement. That's the one and only measurement that matters to me, get that perfect and the bike will feel great. That usually means sizing down given the current state of things. Yeah you *might* be compromising seated position somewhat but who cares we ride up to go down!
Looks like Joaquin Miller trails in this video. Used to ride there almost every day. Miss that place.
Great points to consider. I'm 5'-8. That's generally smack in the middle of the height range for a medium, but also on the upper limits for a small. I'm honestly going to consider trying a small frame for my next bike, especially since I plan on getting something significantly more aggressive than an XC bike.
Right on thnx for the comment!
No one's talking about the fly at 0:42? C'mon.
His name is simon
I saw it...
He’s getting some sun, tryna kill covid
Got tired about being referred to as the one that is "on the wall"....😇😎
He wants to go for a ride.
Being right in between sizes on most brands I usually size up. The top tube length is the most important geo figure to me. Living on the east coast where we have to pedal pretty much all the time, I need to be comfortable riding long days thru the twisty single track. On smaller sized bikes I feel like my pedal efficiency is not as high because I’m so cramped. Those mediums though are sure fun to flick around. Damn it do I get a medium or large? 🤯
The struggle is REAL!
JC TRAILS exactly
JC TRAILS I’m a shorter dude, 5’6 and usually between small and medium. I was about to purchase a Santa Cruz 5010 but wasn’t sure whether to go small or medium. Then I saw your vid when you demoed a medium 5010 at your height, and man you were shredding and having so much fun! So I decided on small for myself and am so glad I did. All thanks to you man!
J. L. I’m glad I could help. Stay safe out there 🤘
Big ❤ to the shart ass massive!
Glad I found this vid. Bought my current MTB about 20 yr ago (Yellow Judy SL’s anyone?) and am considering a new one. The changes are baffling. I think my take away from this is to maybe disregard the direct to consumer bikes where sizing is an estimate, and get to a bike shop to try them out.
Work with a good shop to get you properly fitted.
Excellent observations. In my many decades of riding, when people buy the wrong size bike then tend too buy to big. I have never found someone who bought too small. Not sure why people always err to the larger sizes.
I used to ask myself that same question whilst riding my penny farthing.
When I walked into Trek to buy my new dream bike a 2020 fuel ex carbon, they were insistent I needed to up size. After demoing my own feeling said otherwise, I went medium. No regrets
Grats on the nice new bike!
How y’all are you?
@@aaronsmith4768 5'7" (170CM) According to the Trek website I'm at the top of the recommended height for medium, and the bottom of medium/large.
This really helped me. Coming from a 10 year old Santa Cruz Blur, I was totally lost. At 6’ I was thinking about going for an XL ripmo AF but decided to go with a large. Thanks
Hey Brent, I too am 6'1" and want to order a Ripmo AF but I also don't know if I should go large or XL without riding one, which is currently impossible under the circumstances...😔
@@hughmongous6613 Did you ever purchase a ripmo or ride one?
@@paul2673 No Paul, have yet to ride one much less purchase one. The only dealer in my area can't even get one....😔
I'm 5'10" and I've been riding a Large F800 for the past 20 years on and off. I recently shortened the stem, widened the bars, added a dropper and slackened it by 2 degrees, which all made it feel more stable. I just bought a Turbo Levo in Medium that has a similar BB-to-bar length and effective top tube length which makes the cockpit feel the same, but 5" longer wheel base makes the bike feel incredibly stable.
I've always sized my bikes down love shorter reach and being able to toss them around
I ride single speed track bikes, I'm 5.10, just dropped down from 56cm to 49cm
Im 178cm, web say recommended large frame for my height, but i choose medium size (165-175) and i think its more agile for me.
Right on, glad it worked out for you!
I did the same
At 182cm I'm on a medium too for the exact same reason
I'm 6'2" 185lbs and I ride a size large even though most manufacturers suggest I ride an XL. I just really like throwing a bike around and jumping more than beating Strava times. That's just me tho and I know it's all very personal on what you want in a MTB.
@@mtbsavant5414 Im 1.70 my bike frame size 18' bike tires are 29er is it good for me? but i hate 29 er tire
Great ,great video , and awesome explanation!
Thnx glad you found it useful
Thanks! That’s very insightful and worth thinking about!
Glad it was helpful!
I am 6 1. All torso. I have x large 2019 stumpjumper the large had be over the bars . Sometimes I wish it was a little smaller
5'11" here. Same, more torso. I have a specialized fuse hard tail XL. love it. Just bought the 2019 stumpjumper large. Picking it up this week. Hope it fits.
@@GrantSpoon I am all torso to lol hard to fit bikes somtimes
Man you are the first one that said something close to me. I am 5 11 but only 29 inseam. That means my torso is very very long. Something happened and I stop growing. I was 5 11 in the 6th. Grade. My brother is 6 7. I am same height as 6 grade as a adult. I am ready to buy a bike and have no clue what size. One dealer said medium. Felt like I was going over the bars when I was just riding it. Next dealer said I needed a large. Rode a large and a xtra large. They said the extra fit me better. Everyone is telling me know way x large. I am very very heavy. I am lost
@@ziggyzenith4273 dude, you need to do some test rides on demo bikes. See what feels good. Here's a quick test. Measure the length of your arms stretched out. Compare to your height. If arms are longer than height go with a size higher. I'm 71 tall with arms 73. Not perfect but it's a start. Funny, they tell me I should be riding a large, but even on the extra large I put a 110 mm long stem on it. Perfection. Good luck.
@@GrantSpoon Thank you... I went to a local bike dealer today. They where the only one that has a large and a xlarge. The sales girl or lady who is a major rider. Said when I got there and she looked at me that I was a large. I explained how my torso was ridiculously long. She said we can try both but I know you are a large. So I got on the large 27.5 Trek FS . It was not bad but I felt little cramped in it. My legs where almost hitting the bars when I pedalled. When I turned I was hitting the bars. She then put me on a xl 29 Trek FS . It was tight on the stand over but it felt so much more comfortable. It was like stepping out of a Camaro into a Cadillac. She watched me ride around the parking lot. She looked puzzled and said... Yes you are a xtra Large. Now I have 2 bikes available that are brand new on the floor of a dealer. They are left over 2018s both are the same model. Giant anthom 2 large iron xtra large. The dealer is not local it is about 1500 miles away. I know the dealer because I used to live there and I have to go through that city next month. I can pick it up then. Or if for some reason I dont go they can ship it to me for 100.00 then I would not have to pay tax. So it's the same either way. So I have them holding the large till Monday and am hoping they still have the xtra large if that is they way I will go. Remember I am 5 10 with a 29 inch inseam and I weigh 350 lb. So between the seat and the handlebars there is a lot of weight or volume. Now as you probably know there are very few bikes available. Let me give you what I am paying for these. They normally sold for $2,600 and I can get them for $1,750. They are brand new... Now the last item is I contacted the fezzari Bike Company because I was thinking that I might have had to have one special ordered. I talked to them today. They have some kind of 23-point measurement system. I didn't have all the 23 points they needed but I had most of it and when the girl took my measurements and I said I was 510 and I had a 29 inch inseam. She told me I really needed to check the inseam because that's an extremely short inseam for being 5 10 I've seen people that are 5 6 that have a 29 inch inseam. I was 5 foot 10 in the 6th grade and for some reason I stopped growing. My brother 6 7 and I think I should have been more along that line. Something went wrong I don't know. Anyway I need to make a decision because one or both of these bikes will be gone by the middle or end of next week. If you can look at this and have any other thoughts please let me know I am very frustrated. I have not ridden mountain bikes I don't understand how they really should work. Many many years ago I rode road bikes 25 miles every night and a hundred miles on the weekends. It's been a long time and I'm sure that is two totally different type of rides
great topic. at 5’10” I’m always sizing up to play it safe but I’ll have to kick a leg over a medium one of these days
You'll have fun either way trust me.
Try it. I'm 5'11" and sat on a fluid fs M (looking for a bike for my wife). I was immediately like, "Damn, I could ride this no problem." The steep seat tube angles and 29" wheels (min chainstay is pretty long) make it so I'm not too far back with the seat up high. I couldn't climb seated on a medium 26er with short chainstays.
I think it depends what you want to do as well. I'm just shy of 6' so my Scott Spark is a large but my next bike will be a medium "harcore" hardtail so I can throw it around more easily. Smaller bikes tend to be more playful but for a race bike, take the larger size.
@@DangerDavez Or you could split the difference on sizes and go with a M/L Chromag. Still super playful and they definitely do hardcore hardtails.
I am in between M and L as well. I was at SC HEADQUARTERS and the guy handling the demos that day recommend I size up. He let me ride a few bikes around the block and I felt more comfortable in a large but the dropper post had to be adjusted down as low as possible. No regrets. My other bike is a medium blur which I rode for over 10 years. The blur feels so small when I get back in it.
Yes thankyou.i too am 5'10 my dealer and I considered I'm still riding 1982 supergoose forever but need a hardtail all mountain.fear sizing..17 size Iron horse sachem3..
YES YES YES !!! Can't agree more. I regrettably moved on from my Evil Wreckoning Large to an Evil Offering Large. The new bike has 30mm more reach and 20mm longer wheelbase. Even the Medium Offering has a longer reach then the Large Wrecker. Damn I miss that bike... so playful and capable in one sweet unit.
When did bikes become so complicated?
I know right?!
Coming from BMX, MTB is so complicated
@@dylanbikesthings3633 I feel you dude.
As someone that is 6'6" I find the title of the video too funny. I have the damndest of luck finding a bike that fits m3
As I told someone else in the comments go dunk a basketball and let the rest of us have this sport. 😂
Im 6'6 also and ride an XL Nomad seems fine dunno what an xxl megatower would be like tho
@@mtbsavant5414 I suck at basketball though... I frankly feel handicapped by my height everything I like I'm too tall for it. 🤷🏻♂️
i feel you, im only 6'5" but i wear a 28 inch inseam, finding literally anything that fits is a serious task. and yea with such short legs im not dunking anything lol.
I know its not cheap, but Santa Cruz tends to do XXL bikes for our friends as tall as you. I'm sure their XXL would fit you well.
thank you. i'm 180 and just bought specialized trail bike M size. i wasn't sure if it wouldn't be too small...
Appreciate your all of your videos as I am hunting a Yeti. Choosing between the 100, 130, 140... I like to do it all a little bit. I am 5'10" and went to a bike shop and they said I should go Large 130... felt solid but it is a lot of bike for things like Sutro Tower right behind my house... and the 140 seems more fun. Wish I could have all 3 ! haha ...
Im 5'2" and i ride a medium size bike. Doesnt fit me, but i adapted to this already and feel comfortable. There are also techniques on how to ride a bigger bike.😆
When you see a 6 year old riding one of those PK Ripper fat bikes and it just looks off.
Haha, I've seen them around too.
haha, yes or a 10yr old wobbling around riding a 29er!?! They should be on 24 or 26" 😝
Really glad I found this video! I'm 5, 8 and just bought a 2020 DH bike in M based off retailers recommendation. And common sense... Yet find the manufacture recommends an L?! Jump on my 29er, which is slightly longer reach than my DH bike... Feels a tank, so glad I went M.
I ride a 2016 GT Bump frame, thats classed as a small frame/dirt jump, I run it as 4x so I can use it for distance as well as trails, I'm 6'1 and its awesome
NO! I like big bikes and I cannot lie, you other brothers....well you know how the song goes, but from coming from a dirt bike background... the more room the better, just me sayin.
Long reach bikes: hard to climb
Dh bikers: climbing?? Tf is that
No chain! No chain!
...so why pedal just pump?
I guess you don’t understand seat tube angles
I have a M/L Fuel EX and a cheap Giant fathom in a medium. The giant has almost 30mm less reach and 15mm shorter chainstays and a shorter wheel base. The fathom is tons of fun to throw around and definitely turns much better.
The MTB industry will do their best to get you to buy a new bike.
They only make stuff we'll buy!