Stuck In The Middle? Sizing Up vs Sizing Down
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- Not sure if you should get the large or extra large? Stuck between the small and the medium? Seb Stott puts two Canyon Strive's against the clock to see if sizing up or sizing down is faster.
More Pinkbike videos:
What Bikes Are The Locals Riding? | Italian Daily Driver Bike Checks
• What Bikes Are The Loc...
Lenzerheide World Cup | Story of The Race with Ben Cathro
• Lenzerheide World Cup ...
Whats the new line? - Inside The Tape with Ben Cathro
• Whats the new line? - ...
Pinkbike Merch - pinkbike.link/...
Subscribe for more content from the pulse of mountain biking.
Website - pinkbike.com
Podcast - pinkbike.link/...
Instagram - / pinkbike
Facebook - / pinkbikecom
What would have been interesting to me would been seeing how you also felt on the Medium, mostly because the M strive is as big as most brands larges and would have provided some downsizing information and opinion. I am 5'10" and seem to always be in between sizes on most bikes, except I would say on the strive I'd with almost all certainty be a Medium.
I’m also 5’10” and have same issue. Tend to find medium works for me. When I have tried a large I’ve found them a bit long & steering sluggish. Currently have a medium Mondraker Chaser R and it’s spot on.
The strive medium is almost exactly the same size as my large nukeproof giga... kinda nuts
@@colemitchmtb Sizing can be a pain. Cube Hybrid stereo 140 Large almost same size as Mondraker Chaser R Medium 🤨🙄. Thankfully I know I bought the right bike as I had a customers Cube medium hybrid in the workshop and was able compare to this with my medium Chaser R and the medium Cube cockpit felt very cramped.
@@AnonymousAndy2 I wasn't able to test ride my bike but I knew based off the geometry of my old bike and other bikes I'd test ridden it would fit well
@@colemitchmtb same here. I new my existing medium Spez Tero was just right, so spent ages messing around with geometry charts, tape measure & a spirit level. Thankfully I got it right 👍🏻
I'm 185cm and honestly tempted to go Medium on my next bike depending on the brand. Some newer bikes are ridiculously long! My XL 2020 Spectral is definitely a bit big on me at 480 reach, but many L are 480 or longer now! The Geo on my 2015 XL Trek Remedy is basically a medium by today's standards!
Great video, but you missed a big issue: GOING UP!
I sized down on my RM Instinct. Going down and on the flats, I am 100% happy with my choice. However, I don’t have the bike dialed in yet going up. The front end wanders on climbs and lifts a little easy. I moved the flip chip from the default slack position to neutral. I will have to try the Steep setting to get more weight on that front wheel. I am slightly hesitant only because as is, I am super confident going down with no “otb “ feeling at all. I can also try extending the chain stay and see if that helps. A lower rise bar would also do this, but that costs money.
My theory is that since I am not as stretched out on the medium, I do not have as much weight forward. When I put my weight way forward the way we would on old géo bikes, I get rear wheel spin climbing on rocks, which is the main terrain I encounter.
TL;DR:
Great test! Now run it back in the opposite direction please.
They use a truck to go up.
@@madtownangler exactly. They miss out on informing every rider that does not use lift access parks. That is many riders.
Great video for park fans! Now let's do one for people who earn their turns.
That is something reviews rarely cover, sizing down on many bikes makes it front end harder to keep down on steep climbs, especially on bikes without super steep seat tube angles.
This test was all about descending but I did a bit of climbing on both bikes and I don't think there's too much difference.
Yup, sharing your feelings about this one. I am between size M and L on the Forbidden Druid, and I went for the size L. I've been playing around with bike setup for a while now and what helped most was lowering the stem height, to get a better front-end feel. Sometimes the bike feels like it's getting away from me, but other times I feel super good on it depending on the speeds that I am going. Looking back I'd probably take the size M as my first choice, but I'll stick to what I have now. The downsides aren't too bad, and it has some upsides too when it comes to stability.
I’m 178cm and between L & M on Yeti. I went large and it felt cumbersome it tight turns. I traded a guy for a Medium. Feels great in turns and I love the control I have. However, I crash a lot more on the medium.
@@mtbeliever5833 what do you think makes you crash more on the medium ?:D
@@LowBr4in I crash more because the sweet spot is smaller. By sweet spot I mean that place where your body weight is balanced over bottom bracket. So because the cockpit/reach is shorter than the large , I can get a little to far over the bars sometimes. That being said, 99% of my crashes on my medium are caused by rider error… not frame size. However, the large would forgive me a lot more.
All this said I being 5’10 with a year on a large Yeti 130 and now a year on medium, I would size down all day. I have soooo much fun riding this bike. Just can’t daydream when riding through rock gardens. 🙃
@@mtbeliever5833 I see:) you are right that when I feel like I'd go OTB the length of the bike helps like a miracle, feels like it saves me way too many times :D
Definitely will be also looking to size down next time I will be after a bike. I am 5'10 as well on large Tyee and I think medium would fit me better :)
how tall are you?
This I feel is one of those questions that I feel is only answered by demo rides, reach for two people the same height can be different enough that one person feels better on the size up and the other feels better on the size down. I think what's most important is comfortability in the wrists & legs, otherwise I think you'll adapt to which ever you get over a few weeks even.
For me, at 6'2, the difference between L & XL is usually in how much higher my seat has to be for the ideal pedaling position.
So interesting, I recently bought a new bike (Commencal Meta AM) and at 173cm I sit right on the border of the S and M. I ended up getting the Small. For me the added ability to move around the bike and not having to always focus on the front end was the decision maker. Yes the reach is on the short side at 445 but the combination of slack head angle, 29er wheels and longer wheelbase offset the shorter reach. Which for how I ride, retained playfulness and "enough" stability at the speeds I ride at. Great video!🤘
Good to hear!
Exactly the same decision with which I am presented (when and if I can afford the Meta AM). Same height, and I am leaning towards the S.
But how can you know whether it's better than the M would've been without testing both?
@@th_js Hey there I actually did test both as here in NZ we have a Commencal dealer in our city. So I had 2 full days to demo both sizes, cheers!
@@jamiehamilton3253 That's great! Sorry for assuming.
Interesting, i am the same height as you and i was worried i made the wrong choice choosing the medium instead of the large. My armspan is 178.5 cm, what about yours ?
Just got the new Pivot Phoenix. I’m 188.5cm or 6’2, Pivot put me on the L. Got the XL, feels great! Swapped to a 35mm reach stem to reduce a little.
I have 188. Have You ever ride trek slash 2022-2023? I am not sure i ma betwen L and XL
I am 6'1" and my new bike is a medium ( Yeti ). I tried one and loved how nimble and reactive it was in technical zones. It's also much more playful for messing about in bike parks. Interesting looking back at my 2016 enduro bike the reach in a large ( Cannondale ) was 458 the Yeti in medium is 460. I had great fun on the large Jekyll but seemed to always be trying to get a bike to fit like that after 2016. Interesting point too, in 2016 Woody Hole won the EWS master category riding a medium Specialized Enduro he also did most of the R&D for the Hope HB160 on a medium frame he is the same height as me.
Hi. Recently I was choosing between M and S. The bike is Canyon Neuron 6 2022. I am 172 cm which is slightly on S side. However, S has 27.5 wheels. My friend gave me advice to go for M and I must say I am happy. I really like 29s. There is also room to shorten reach if needed. Originaly there is 60mm stem. I dont have issue with that but maybe I will experiment a bit with 45 mm. Only thing which really bothers me is dropper post which is too long so I will probably replace it in near future. Have a nice day :)
In my opinion on these newer longer bikes it takes more rider input/ weight adjustment to get the bike to do things. This is what makes it more forgiving for most riders and their general ability levels and amount they move around on the bike. For the pro’s and very good riders a smaller top tube(within reason) allows less body movement to get the bike do what they want it to. In the end I think it just comes down to personal preference as all the bikes are so good these days.
I think this topic deserves it's own series (hint, hint😉 PB). How does a bigger size frame climb compare to a smaller one? Don't forget about jumps, bunny hops, wheelies, and other skills. How do different sizes feel on flow trails? How do the pros, advanced, and novice riders feel on the trails testing different sizes. It's a good excuse to test different brands because sizes are not standardized.
P.S. I'm sure many of your viewers would love to participate in this experiment too (hint, hint,😉)
good point about stack and reach ratio for longer bikes. Some bike manufacturers forget about it and their XL bikes are very short and require very high rise bars + shit ton of additional spacers (if they didnt cut forks steerer tube too short)
As someone who is 200cm tall I'm glad that the industry is shifting towards bigger and longer bikes 😅
Same. We’ve gotta go XL right?? Looking at this or trek slash in XL
200cm is 0.2m you are smaller than a infant then 😭😭😭
@@ryanvanroekel7881 Yes. XL or even XXL if available. The Slash has quite a flat seatangle tho or am I wrong?
@@justsupertramp just compared them on 99spokes and the strive is a touch steeper seat tube angle, which seb complained about being too slack in his pinkbike review compared to the privateer… I wish I could demo these somewhere!!
@@justsupertramp the 2021+ slash is way bigger than my 2020 slash, so I was thinking that. Plus I’ve got a local trek shop. But this strive can even be 19 mm longer than a new slash! Pretty extreme as they said
I sized up on my last bike and have sized down on this bike. Definitely made the right decision for my riding style this time around.
That was nice movie clip. The thing is that we can also tune the cocpit to our preference like shorter stem, different bars and so on and that could have huge impact on the riding, don't you think? I am very often between sizes and still do not know what to do. I find longer bikes better on corners where I have just more room. On the other hand bunny hops and basically jumps are for sure easier on shorter bike.
Have always been right on the tall end of Medium, dipping slightly into large. Seem to be between S and M nowadays, will always go smaller. It's just more fun.
I'm 5'11" and usually in between M and L. I've always sized up including for my current Evil Insurgent. I was riding park today and definitely notice that tendency to have to focus on staying more on the front and yes it can be a handful on tight sections. But man is it stable and confidence inspiring. This vid does make me want to demo a M though just to see!
Bike keeps me upright and causes less neck strain.
I'm the same height and run a medium. I find the bike is easy to toss around but it's also very easy to end up too far over the front end. There doesn't seem to be enough room to shift forward or back. It's been great to build confidence but I think I'd prefer a longer reach especially descending. On the climbs I find the short
I’m on the Evil Offering and I really wanted to go large like I normally do(also 5’11) but I went with their suggestion and went with size M. Couldn’t be happier. The medium just feels spot on for me.
5' 10" and I used to ride medium but switched to large several years ago with no regret. I like the stability and I feel I've "grown into" the bigger bike which allows me to push even harder! But I'm riding an Ibis Ripmo which is not especially long compared to others.
If you are between sizes pick th inferior for sporty better felling and control and the biggest for more comfort relax rides
At 6’-3” you are on their (Canyon) large all day long. If you look at a Transition Spire, that this bike mimics. Canyons XL is Transitions XXL,there abouts. When the bike gets to long you lose front end control. So unless you plan on running flat out fire road descents, the bike has to be within reason. If they move you foreword to compensate then you loose rear end traction. I am 6’-3 1/2”, 35” inseam, arm span same as height and ride a Transition Spire XL and a Ibis Ripmo V2 in Xl, both fit like a glove. The Transition wheel base is 2 1/4” longer than the Ibis but the geometry is slightly different to accommodate for that to keep you centered in the bike. The modern geometry is a game changer, but the important thing is is to be centered on the bike. So the your weight can be evenly distributed on the suspension to keep both tires in even contact with the ground.
1,96m (6'5") - I've never been between sizes ... but I like the idea of a very long XL bike
I’m 6’3” and the best fitting bike I’ve ever tried was a XXL Santa Cruz Hightower. Never though in my life I’d ride a XXL but hey it just suits me. I also tend to prefer bikes that are stable at high speed.
@@blangeleven YT Jeffsy 29 in XXL here ;o)
I ride a medium DH and a “ML”
trail bike. The park I ride is super technical though, and my local trails are mellow
I really would have liked to see this video with the grip height and length the same between the two bikes. In order to take out the variable of cockpit sizing on handling.
And, with proportional chainstays, in order to take weighting the front tire out of the equation.
Those are two huge factors in how a bike feels to ride, so it would be more useful to compare just the change in wheel base.
I have a Cotic on the way and am between the small and medium, luckily I managed to demo them at their warehouse. I’ve gone with the medium as it has a similar sized reach with the recommend shorter stem to my previous bike. Let’s hope it’s the right choice!
My last bike i went with medium. my current i went large. too big > too little. im loving the longer wheelbase. especially in the climbs
Thank you. That was my feeling as well. After I know a track, a longer bike feels great, but when I don't and have to improvise, it's not working.
honestly im 15 and 5'5" and i had no option besides medium for the bike i want but in medium but this made me a little more confident with my decicsion while i wait for my order to arrive and be assembled. i should be fine since im still growing in height
im going to edit this comment after i recieve and test my bike out
I am almost always between a Small and a Medium with most bike brands. So I always size down. I want to be in control of the bike and not have the bike be in control of me. I basically want agility over stability.
See where you're coming from with your first and third sentences, but not your second sentence. More likely to lose control of a smaller bike in rowdy stuff, and stability hardly implies a lack of control, and it certainly doesn't mean the bike is in control of you - especially if you're right between sizes, where the difference is going to be pretty minimal.
@@flippy66 I agree. Not a bicycle, but I recently went to a motocross bike known for having a more stable and compliant chassis. With the confidence it gives I am able to commit, and pull off stuff that I never could have on my previous more "agile" bike. Much improved bike control has been the result.
@@Fatonzzz Yeah, the whole "agile" thing makes sense if you do dirt jumps or slopestyle, but otherwise I think it's a buzzword. I recently switched to a Trek Slash after an older Nukeproof Mega, it's much longer and yet I find it much more easy to handle in most situations.
Sized down on my last bike. Very glad I did. Went up on the one previous, want to trade it to go the other way. I was always between M and L I'm 5'10". In the past but now I would even consider a small on some bikes that have gone crazy long. My DH bike has a 436 reach 610ish stack on a large from 2017 and I love it. I definitely skew towards optimizing jumps and fun over being the fastest down the mountain. That's shorter than some smalls today.
Yeah that is a VERY small bike by modern standards. And very low stack for a modern DH bike. You'd really have to be off the back on steeps, but as you stated should be nice and playful off jumps. The modern long bikes are designed around a more centered riding position which makes them much easier to ride on steep terrain.
The new Strive is comically massive, the old one was already on the big end of the class in terms of reach and wheelbase. Clearly Canyon didn't listen to Moir when designing the new Strive. If you look at what's getting podiums at EWS isn't not the huge slack supersleds. Yeti SB150 (Rude) and RM Altitude (Melamed) are both on the small end of the class their large is probably smaller than the medium Strive, even the Ibis Ripmo manages to be competitive despite being more of an all mountain bike than an enduro bike.
What about pedaling the bike and the seated position? I have to go up and sit down for much longer than descending. So the cockpit fit while seating is as important or more than the reach number while descending. What would you pick to pedal all day?
I’m glad you picked a presenter that was 6”3 as I’m currently on an xl spectral and have thought about the strive as a replacement
I'm the same height and considering the spectral. Pretty set on the XL, but just curious how you find it for size?
@@FlyingThruCanyons , to be honest I think it’s pretty good , I’ve found no issues with the sizing
I like a tall stack height so i tend to size up but bikes are so big now might go down a size next go around.
I think it's safe to say with today's longer bikes if you're right in the middle you want to go with the shorter bike.
Being barely tall enough for the XL really means you're 3 inches too short for the intended height of the XL.
woo seb!! one of the best technical reviewers in the biz.
As per Lee McCormack and other authors, for a height 191cm, you need bike with a reach = 191*2.55 = 487mm. So that even size L of the brand in video is a little big. However, this geometry may change if (for example) you use shorter/longer fork, different tire for front wheel, etc.; maybe 10mm-20mm variations.
Norco Fluid size L has a reach 470, and size XL - 500mm. As per their size charts, 6’3” falls in XL (up to 6’ 3.5” rider height, 500mm reach) and sizes XXL (available in some models only) cover 6’3” and above. So, Norco is definitely shorter ;)
Also, I assume manufacturers have different sizing charts (reach, end etc.) depending on riding goals: DH vs “trail” etc.; but I am lazy to check… for sure BMX differs from “trail” from “road” etc.; Norco Fluid is marketed as “trail” bike.
For example, I made mistake buying Norco size L with a reach 470; my “reach” is 451. But I noticed that if I (as many others) upgrade factory fork from 120mm to 150mm “reach” will decrease to 450mm (front of bike will be about 20mm higher).
Looking at Rocky Mountain Growler 40, I found that their M size is perfect for me (reach=450). But it uses travel 140mm fork; in theory, if I upgrade fork on Norco, from 120mm to 150mm, angle & geometry will change (front of bike will be 20mm higher) and reach will become 450.
I am not sure if 15-20 mm of “reach” play any significant role… indeed you feel perfect on a bike with reach 505, although “in theory” you need 487mm, 18mm smaller.
P.S. I am absolute newbie…
That equation is no where near accurate enough to be the decider. You have to actually measure your RAD, most people who use the formula don’t get what’s actually best for them. It’s really easy to measure. The equation gets you in a range, but even Lee says not to use the formula and to measure.
Plus the whole concept of rad isn’t for everyone. Lee has a very specific riding style, other people look for different things when sizing a mtb than the best ability to bunnyhop and pull up on the bars.
I'm 5"9" and my seat height from the BB is 27". Medium is best for me on most brands.
I size down if I'm between sizes. Not so much for speed or stability, more for the sake of keeping my nards from meeting my toptube too harshly when I have an unexpected sudden stop thanks to a rock or root
I currently ride an XL patrol and think I should have a L. I'm 188 cm, most brands place me in the middle of L and XL but now I know the RAD. Rider Area Distance, I feel this maybe something adopted by manufacturers for a better fit.
I'm 174cm and and reserved a medium Orbea Occam but am unsure if I picked the right size. Orbea caps off their recommendation for Medium at 175cm and starts the large range at 170cm.
I'm a new rider in eastern PA where handling turns is probably more of a concern than bombing downhill as fast as I can but maybe the stability can help a new rider also.
im actually just about to get an Occam aswell and im 173cm and still not sure what size to get... any tips?
I'm 1.72 and owned a M Occam ..it was perfect in term of sizing , my wife have a S Occam for 1.60 and I take it from time to time for some parking stuff manual wheelie and this thing is fun !!
@@Barhum If it makes you feel better you probably saw Jeff Kendall-Weed's review / ride videos of a medium Occam and if you watch enough of his other content you'll hear that he's also just a tad over 5'8".
Obviously that's not what my riding (or probably most people riding style) looks like at all and could maybe play a little roll in why he chose Medium. I think he also puts on a slightly longer stem (50~55 or something) to stretch out cockpit a little.
There's also another written review online from one of the major MTB websites where the person mentions how according to Orbea he could be on an XL but didn't really mind running the large.
I don't really think going either way at 5'8"~5'9" would feel bad and kind of just becomes personal preference style but I don't have the ability to demo them and it's kind of something obsess about if you're going to drop a lot of money one. Even if I rode both I doubt I'd have a confident choice.
You will like the medium, I'm 178cm. My dad is about your height and he has the current gen medium Occam. He rides it great. I have also felt good on it when riding myself. Don't stess it!
These days there are SO many bikes to choose from. Best practice says demo demo and demo to see what fits and feels best.
yea but seeing as D2C brands offer by far the best value(especially vitus right now) knowing the differences sizes can make is a very useful tool.
also if i had made the video i would have talked more about reach wheelbase and stack and not manufacturer sizes.
Feels like this vid was made for me - same bike, same height - just I ordered mine before finding this 😂 went with the L at 6”3, feels mint
l am about 183cm tall and most companies will spec a large frame.
l prefer 29er wheels so a large frame will get me a 29 wheels in L and XL for companies that do size fit.
l do prefer a 170 mm crank length and l hope the trend of going to 175 mm for L and XL frames fades away with 170 mm becoming the standard again.
I’m 180 cm with a 197 cm wingspan. I always ride large although I’ve felt too close to the cockpit on my last bike. Thinking of doing the same for the Strive due to the long arms I have.
I feel like downhill it’s not a great comparison on sizing up or sizing down cross country is where you really need to know if you are the right size
Such a nice video!
Thanks guys! 💖💖💖
Great vid Seb ! Definitely in the camp of bikes are getting too long at this point and I think the growing wheel bases need to stop, especially to help accommodate for smaller folks. Some wheelbases and reaches are so incredibly long that it's like we've forgotten that half of riding (and half the fun) is comprised of corners !
I'm 175cm right between medium and large for bikes like Ibis and Santa Cruz. For these bikes I prefer the medium for 29ers. On the large it's harder to maneuver the bigger bike and not as fun for popping off jumps. I suppose if trails don't turn that much and don't need to steer through rocks the bigger bike might be better.
same for me... 176cm love jumps, and flow trails, im on the brim of a large meta ht which is fit for 178 cm but gonna go for small
Unless you are buying a very long bike, it is usually best to size up and push the seat forward and install a shorter stem. Most bikes are not long enough. Even short-travel Trail and Downcountry bikes should come with 76-77 STA and 65-64* HTA. Once a bikes geo goes beyond a 77* STA and 64* HTA, then sizing down might start to make sense. I struggle with this all the time. At 5'9", I like the stock fit of medium bike but prefer the longer wheelbase of the large bike.
At 183 most brands size L feels nimble and precise and the XL feels like a boat, very hard to stear
I'm 179cm, and every freaking brand has either 170-180 or 180-190 bike
just between M and L, and it's insanely hard to find a frame. Also... I can easily ride with 455 reach on most of M bikes (you can also put a 50ml stem), but the seated position becomes awful because of the steep seat angle.
I guess I'll be riding my Remedy L for years, until something comes up
you are talking sense, my man. I'm also 5'11" and when the seat angle gets too steep, it's very hard to get a good fit when you're in between sizes.
Same problem here at 179cm. The 2023 Orbea wild has a 450mm reach but the seat angle is so steep the ETT is shorter than my 2018 Focus Jam, which makes seated pedalling awful.
@@22Jeffers I got a Rocky Altitude M 21' - never looking back. Great bike and pretty comfortable for me.
I've got super short legs for my height. I like to size up (based on my inseam), the reach feels way too short if I size down. On my last 3 bikes I've had to swap the dropper for a slightly shorter one and swap to 165mm cranks. Currently running a 2020 Orbea Occam in size medium.
hey can i ask what is your height? im actully about to get an Occam as well and im between M and L based on Orbea's, im 173cm and im wondring if i should size up or down. thanks
@@Barhum I have a 2021 Occam and I'm 180cm, and the L fits me perfectly, it might even feel a bit short, so you'll probably be fine on a M at your height
How are the 165mm cranks? I need to change my 175 on my Jeffsy. I like 165 mm on ebikes, but people are saying to short on a trail bike and go for 170.
@@Barhum hiya! I'm 5'8" (173 cm) height, but my inseam is only 29" (73 cm). I can just barely stand flat footed over the top tube, but I've got my seat as far back as I can safely go, stock stem and stock bars cut down to 760 mm, reach feels good. There's no way I could stand over a size large and a small would be too short a reach. I'm not sure of any geometry changes between 2020 and 2022. Hope that helps!
@@octodadmtbmartyrichards2862 I have super short legs (73 cm inseam) and I love 165mm cranks, I'm running that size on all 4 of my bikes. There's a noticable improvement in my speed, my cadence is smoother and fewer pedal strikes going from 175 to 165mm. GCN has a video for crank length and it worked well for me.
I'm between sizes as well and always size down. A smaller bike can be more easily and successfully tweaked for the optimal cockpit / riding position / balance etc. Whereas a larger bike there are simply less options and ways to do so.
If your short like me a small frame is critical
Hi, this was interesting I've been away from biking for around 15 Yr now I'm from Dundee I was alway on a bike loved my ATX two lol changed day's now though! I have been looking to get back on the saddle been looking at new kona process 153 and canyons etc size is something I struggling with being about 5.11ish I'm thinking a large for something new now whare as before it was just a straight 17.5in and 14in for trial bike maybe see you around sometime when get back on a bike this is the hard part is finding this first start back bike that'll work for a year or so till get my hand and bottle back up lol
I'm pretty regularly between sizes as well, although that window is shifting, I've always sized up in the past...socal is mostly moderate to fast trails, not a lot of tight slower tech stuff here, so the longer more stable option seems to be more beneficial. I've found around 490 reach is my sweet spot, I know 500 is too long and anything under 480 is too short.
How tall are you?
How tall are you??
6ft 1in
I wonder if looking at heart rate could help quantify feeling “relaxed” - presumably a lower heart rate even at the same run time would be preferable and indicative of more confidence/ability to push.
I'm a firm believer in long bikes, and couldn't find a bike that actually fit me. Had a previous generation XL canyon and it was way to short. Ended up ordering a custom frame. What's annoying with large manufacturers, is that the stack height doesn't seem to follow the reach. So, if you need that long frame because of your height, not because you want to win enduro races on a stable bike, you are limited in terms of adjustability. Suspect a lot of that is down to looks, they want that slammed stem for marketing. I've never ridden a off the shelf bike where I didn't have to swap the handlebars for a 50mm rise, and you really need to dig to find those. You pay serious money for these bikes, why not just at least leave the steerer tube un-cut, and let the customer dial in the fit?
I'm 165cm tall...i go for Small size with 29inch tyre...easier for me to control the bike...i'm using marin riftzone.
i am 196cm with a 92 Inseam height, I just got the Xl today. Feels greath ! alwais wondering what a L would feel like tho.. ( canyon Spectral 2022 )
505 for a large is nuts. How many people buying Strives are racing at EWS pace? Probably mostly they're just overbiking on their local trails. For such a large company, Canyon makes some really strange decisions.
Im 167cm on a specilized enduro s4, the stabilty and control is for me atleast better than on a s2 that is recommended for my lenght, or the previous bikes ive had on small/medium, the playfulness is still there on a bigger bike but requires "alot" more from the rider in my experience, i ride mostly park with lift.
I'm 1.67m too, thinking of getting medium size Santa Cruz 5010. Do you think 459mm reach is too big?
@@btc175 i think that will be an awesome fit!
@@p.swedell Are you able to get your weight back easily in the really steep stuff with such a long reach for your height?
@@ashkonsenaati8530 it was more effort on the s4 than the s3 but "easily" doable, I still think the s4 was more stable than s3 that im ridning now since i broke the s4 rip
Pinkbike's collecting the best presenters
Im the same size as you and on a 485mm reach slash, i though that was in between, thinking now i could go with 500mm maybe, i do love the quick handling of my slash though
5'9 here i ride full suspension in large and hardtail In a medium
Thanks this vid was great.
I’m a similar height and have the same worry
im between small and medium for a mondraker crafty r. I am 1.70cm .. dont now if its better on small
Most riders are on bikes too big. Average male height is 5’9, yet the most sold bike size is large. There is a reason why EWS riders are even sizing down. A bigger bike will wear you out faster and be slower.
Those things could be true for some people, and untrue for some.
@@th_js Yes. We are all not built the same, Some people have crazy long arms, legs or torso. That said, a bigger bike is still slower and will wear you out more.
@@frienduro24 nah not for the average rider, with big bikes you can ride lazily because they plow over everything with a lot of forgiveness. small bikes require much more control and fore aft balance to not go otb on steep descents.
That guy just camping out right in front of the trail. 😂
Im 185cm and rode a Norco Sight 2021 Large recently and it felt like a bus, these would feel ridiculous to me (I ride a bike with large Giant Trance 27.5 2020 /Trek Fuel EX geo roughly) but if i lived near gravity parks I could be into it but TBH I think id rather the large Sight with Fox/Shimano as a better compromise as my skills and speed progress.
With 190cm height I got I'd even consider M size 😅 I've had 2022 spectral AL in size L (around 475mm reach) and it felt perfect for me. 500mm of reach feels way too much for me though 🤷♂️
Did you like the Spectral ? I think about buying a CF8 in size L with my 189cm or a Propain Tyee
@@juffkasvennsson4609 propain sadly is very... inaccurate let's say (to not offend anyone)with delivery dates. Anyways - i liked the New spectral a lot, had also the chance to test spectral cf9 - it's Great. But I'm switching from dh bike so... torque stole my heart :)
185 cm here and im with you. I have an XL 2020 Spectral (482 reach) and its bit big and long for me. The thing is, many bikes are already at 480 reach for an L. Its wild!
@@7dragongames spectral from 2020 has way different geo. Despite 482mm reach it has long as f. Seat tube which makes bike very tall. I've ridden both on the same day (friend of mine got it) and damn that's night and day difference between 2020 XL and 2022 L. The newer one is sweet
Hello!
I ride cross country. My height is 177 cm. My bike is Cannondale Trail 4 (29 wheels) size L . Sometimes in the corners I feel that there is not enough maneuverability: I can turn it, but it is very difficult and maybe I should have chosen the M size. Now I want to change discipline and find a trail bike. I'm thinking about size M on 27.5 wheels. any tips?
Im looking to maybe buy the Canyon neuron young hero, it has gotten an update recently so it’s slightly larger than the older. So the sizing is different. It comes in XS (158 - 166) and XXS (158 and lower) im 156cm and canyon recommends the XXS Im right at the end of the XXS and idk if it will be too small
Why is the saddle slammed forward on both sizes? Top tube horizontal is 654mm vs 684mm. Should make for a huge difference in pedaling position. I think XL is too long for you tbh.
Does anyone have experience with giant reign e+ 2022. I am 176 cm. Which size should I buy.
Timely video. I've (191cm)got the L in the cart and rdy to pull the trigger.
Where is Seb these days? He's one of the better tester's out there. Haven't seen much of him on CZcams lately.
Those are LONG bikes. I would almost certainly need to size down to a medium. It’s getting very hard to judge anything my looking at a geometry chart without a test ride. Test rides are hard to come by in my area. 😢
a real comparison would have been use a size up and down of your normal size. or even go back to 26 to see the real differences
im 172cm with 81cm inside leg length. What Size do you think will fit for me (For Canyon Spectral:ON)? S or M ? (with S i cant use the 900w)
They knew what they were doing when they made the title lol
Just watch Jack moi canyon strive vs spectral to see why a smaller bike is better for riding more blind trails (better change of direction) and a larger bike is better for tracks you know well that is fast..
Manufacturers know specs sell bikes, they couldn't care less about bike fitting or ergonomics. The numbers will keep growing as long as the markets support the sillynes with sales numbers, same can be said about tyres, suspensions and pretty much every single silly spec that keeps getting bigger and bigger for no other reason that it sells well. My optimal reach according to my bike fit is 420mm, basically there are no new enduro bikes in that range anymore 🙄
I need a help I want to buy a new Canyon Torque 29 6 but I don’t know which size to choose.M or S so I would be really happy if somebody would respond to this
Thanks
More Seb please
My girlfriend said it did!
I’m 6’8 (2m03) and ride a Firebird 29 2019 (500m reach) and a Commencal Meta AM 29 2019 (480mm reach).
I always wondered if I’d be more comfortable on a more recent enduro bike with a 520+mm reach like the new Meta AM or the Canyon Strive.
But based on this video and comments here, maybe even with my gigantic height I’m still better off on a not-so-huge bike. Any thoughts?
ask Reggie Miller or Kelly Oubre
But how much faster would he have been on the Grim Donut?
With 185cm I ordered size m. Should be perfect
Moir riding size small tells something. Not sure what, but something.
I was told when I bought my first MTB back in 1993 that I needed four inches of crotch space when I put my feet on the ground.
I ended up later with more like two inches of crotch space which most of the time ended up being a 16 inch frame.
Would you put slightly longer stem (40-50 mm) if you size down like in this situation?
Personally, I stick to +/- 10mm from the stem length spec'ed by the bike brand, anymore than a 10mm change and you risk upsetting the steering balance.
A stem change is more for performance. I tried 40mm, too twitchy. 50 feels great. Moving your saddle, rolling your bars or changing your stack doesn’t more to tweak a fit.
Good effort, but how come you didn't also test the Medium with what I consider a more normal Reach for a Large, i.e. size down, like Jack has done. 51.6" wheelbase is INSANE to me, so let's not even discuss the 53" WB on the XL. Have a feeling that you would have found the Medium would have been the best, but I'm guessing that Canyon didn't want you to do that and prove Jacks and everyone else saying they're stupid long, right.
Is a 51.6" wheelbase really that insane? Personally, as soon as I rode my new Norco Sight XL with a ~51.6" wheelbase, I realized that all of my previous bikes had been too small. Preference obviously is king, but I think a lot of people are scared of these big numbers. If you haven't ridden a long bike, you may be pleasantly surprised.
Consider the wheelbase of a dirt bike (~58in"). By mtb standards that should be unrideable, but dirtbikes can be incredibly nimble. The criticism of big geo numbers in mtb seems way overblown to me. I think "modern" geo has made big improvements to mtb in general by making bikes that are faster and more comfortable. If you've never ridden a modern geo bike with an open mind, you may be missing out. I've never felt so comfortable, stable, and confident than on my big, long XL bike.
@@RiggadonDan on what sort of terrain are we talking? Because it seems that these days "mountain biking" to a lot of people, especially PBers, means DH, not going out and pedaling for an entire "day" 4-6 hours, where you pedal up hills, some long and mellower, others short and steep, some a mix of both and then there's similar downs of all varieties and then the in between where you're pedaling on flats or lightly rolling terrain.
FYI, I've tried a "modern" geo bike, they're horrible as an everyday bike that gets ridden on more than just downs, but maybe that's just me being an "old school" kind of guy who thinks a rigid with some plus tyres is plenty good for a lot of terrain and "fast" is not the only metric of fun, but having to be the one making the bike get you down the hill with a good amount of rider input is, not just plowing your way down/over any and everything almost like you're on a lazy boy.
Almost forgot about the silly dirt bike reference - it doesn't matter how long their WB, because they have this thing on them, you know, called a motor that you just twist a bit on the bar and it makes it go or the back come around easy, absolutely no correlation to MTB in this sense, none.
I have no idea how to pick a bike anymore, at 170cm height and watching about 3 million youtube videos I'm more confused than ever. 😂
My lbs recommends me a bike with a 450mm reach, videos on the internet tell me to get a bike that has a reach of about 420mm. ( 170cm x 2.5 or 170cm x 2.45 if I want a more playful bike)
What size do you pick, guys? (the 165-175cm ones =])
i'm 185 cm , what size do I need?
I don't know why you changed the bar height, the whole point is that you're supposed to be finding the "feeling" difference between the two, which includes stack and reach. Also if your purpose is to experience what pro enduro racers are going for, you should've used a medium vs large imho.
Jack Moir is also 6'3 and riding a small new Strive 🤣
I think he’s closer to 6’1”. But still.
@@benperd your right 6'1 and last I read he was between medium vs small new Strive.
Pros in all cycling disciplines have always gone for weirdly small frames, what works for racing at a professional level isn't going to work for average Joe having fun on the weekend.
he probably customizes the hell out of the seat, cranks, stem, handle bars and has a team to perfect every fit for him
@@dw7647 yeah it has some changes but nothing mayor... thing is the new Strive is super long. Overtime I have favored shorter bikes... I am 179cm and 450-460 reach is dailed 4me but definitely need at least 630mm stack.
Just 25mm reach difference. The difference is not noticeable to me.
But what s this guy s height, m i missing that info?
Smaller frames are for more fun and play full tracks if you want to be able to kick it around easier bigger bikes are better for hitting huge gaps coasting smoothly in the air does real nice around turns great downhill bike
went from xl to size large as the xl with pivot was too big size l just right
How tall are you?
@@norcalchrismeister 6.2
@@alexkirby280 I'm the same height and usually ride xl bikes but have been thinking of getting a large for my next one.
She told me…
Size matters.