SIZING MY NEXT MOUNTAIN BIKE | How long is too long?
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
- I'm geeking out with Lee about sizing my next mountain bike and if and when a long mountain bike might be too long?
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Quite possibly, THE most important MTB video on CZcams!
I second
Brutally realistic conclusions in the last 15% of the video. Helpful AF and to my personal taste 100% proven in reality.
I am 38 and am just looking into stepping into my first mountain bike . These sizing videos are a huge help . The whole sizing thing has confused and overwhelmed me for so long. I finally feel like i can get my head around it now.
Thankyou gentlemen. 👍
Absolutely one of the best made bike fit videos on CZcams. Thank you so much.
Great video again Alex and Lee. The most I learned on the topic of MTB from any vids online is from yall. Thanks for sharing.
Glad it’s helpful. Getting a good fit is such a foundational step. Keep shredding!!!
Been mtbing since 2000 watched a million videos, this is the single best of them all. congrats guys.
This is a really good video. I I'm 5'9" and have been riding large frames for years and dealing with hand pain. You have me rethinking my decisions in life now.
I work as a components engineer in the bike industry (not as a frame designer) and your two videos on bike fit have just blown my mind. It's so easy to get caught up in the new trends that you ignore what should be intuitive. Thanks for opening my eyes!
Wow, thank you! We talk to engineers and suspension designers in the industry all the time and some are quite frustrated. But it's all gonna work out and the new bikes are incredible!!! Kudos to you!
@@JoyOfBike Why do you think that is? Bike companies forcing geometry change/larger sizing in an attempt to sell newer bikes? What do the engineers say? Cheers!
Great video. A treat to see both you and Lee in a new vid. Kudos for sharing this important info with the youtube community.
Thanks. Hope it’s helpful. We have had lots of off the record convo with shop owners and manufacturers and they know it’s an issue but they can’t afford to argue and lose a sale. As long as people are stoked on their bike I’m stoked.
This channel by the way...love it. Just starting actual getting into really riding the MTB. 46 years old, five spinal fractures. Knee screwed together, three collar bone breaks and more ribs and leg bones than I can count. All the years of extreme skiing and such caught up to me. SO in an effort to try something safer :) - I am learning from these guys to do this and hopefully be using my body correctly in conjunction with the bike setup. Kudos to Alex and Lee for such good content and a natural manner of presenting it. Thanks so much!!
What a great video. I really like your methods for educating our biking community and that you do this freely regardless of whether people agree or disagree with your methods. Big props for this. Now I have a better understanding why my 483 mm reach bike feels so good! Thanks and keep up the great work!
Love!
My pleasure!
Just found ur channel. Love the info. Great editing. Super mellow and clear delivery. Thank you guys
thanks for sharing it was a very informative how you discuss the good sizing and how to get the right size bike. Alex and Lee you guys are awesome. see you on your next vlog.
I'm blown away by the information bombs you two drop with each video! Total game changers!
Thanks brother.
8:20 - olympic rings gymnastics is a hand centric sport. And those guys have massive shoulder muscles! great video gents. much love from Abbotsford, BC!
One of the best MTB video I've ever seen!
This is a great video!! Thank you so much! It explains what I've been struggling with on this new MTB I bought in the Spring. I haven't confirmed the RAD length yet but everything you've explained in this video sounds exactly what I've been asking myself and trying to figure out.
Thank you guys for keeping egos in check... thus saving me thousands in heartache buying the wrong size.
Keep it up you two, this is so much value 🙏🏼🌹🤙🏼
Great video gentleman 👌 I love the way you articulate the relationship between personal biomechanics and the different aspects of bike size. Having a clear explanation like this is going to save me a lot of hassle and get me on that perfect bike so much sooner
Glad you enjoyed it!
This could not have come at a better time! Good stuff guys!
Damn... Again, knocked it out of the park👌🏽♥️ thank you!
Great video guys! You two have great chemistry and clear communication style. And the content is original and useful. My RAD is 80cm BTW.
Thank you!!
That's a RAD rad. Mine is 31 inches exactly. In case you ever want to buy me a bike. : )
I mentioned mine in case you get tired of your old DJ bike Alex!!
Wooh. Your videos are so helpful to all mountain bikers around the globe. Thank you very much for sharing.
Keep crushing it guys! This is such great information.
Thank you! Will do!
that’s hella dope y’all are supporting grow cycling. as a person of color new to the sport that work is really appreciated
Heck yes. Welcome to this wonderful sport!!
Stoked that you have heard of them. Elliot is AWESOME. Gonna figure out how to work his great vibes into a video soon.
@@JoyOfBike thats wassup! looking forward to the content and that raffle
Yo guys .... need to pick both ya brains plz..... I’m 5’7’’ and have a small Haibike all mountain 6..... that can’t be changed to a smaller size
How can I get r.a.d- ?!?!
Can I get a longer stem or nudge seat bk on the post ?!?
I think my r.a.d- is 416 the bike measurements are on line .... I know u and lee can help me out
And by the way keep up the great work and yes ... I tell as many people bout your channel as I can....
@@jimmygrimshaw3318 your seat and seat post have no effect at all on RAD. RAD is the distance from your bottom bracket center to the bar grip center. Watch the second Joy of Bike fit video to see how it’s measured. But basically, you can lengthen RAD by using a longer stem or raising the bars. However, Lee also has a number called SHO (distance between middle of hands and steering axis) that will be less optimal if your frame is too small. Still, I believe Lee recommends prioritizing RAD over SHO. Check out his fitting book for really detailed guidance
Great insight and very useful data points. I have been riding an XL SC Tallboy (1, 2 & 3 versions) and all have fit me perfectly. After enjoying your video...take my 470 magic reach number and now I am looking at size Large in almost all the SC frames now. Same with Yeti, Ibis, etc...I am 6'2.5" with long legs and arms(ape index of +3 inches). Due to my ape index, I ended up with a 60mm stem on my Tallboy for my long XC Endurance events.
Nice!
@@lee_likes_bikes BTW...Helm Johnson says Hi...
Thanks so much guys! Trying not to second guess a big purchase since the industry is stretching things out, wondering if we should to? Went with what just felt right, and your sizing process provided some nice confirmation. Also, thank you for your time on these videos, really helping with some solid basics.
Absolutely!
This is the best video on mountain bike sizing I have ever seen!!!
Appreciate the kind words!!!
Makes so much sense to me. Thanks, guys!
What the industry is trying to do, not so much, but I get it. Hence the phrase "it doesn't make make sense, but I get it" 😄
Just measured my bike with the ladder trick and it’s perfect i was stressed when I first saw the video
This a great channel! Good dialogue between the two of you.
Thanks, this is the best sizing guide around. I just ordered my first mountain bike at 49 :). This video was a big help.
I needed this video a year ago. This explains everything why my S4 Enduro felt off.
That is a KILLER bike! But it's a big bike. I so wanted one, but none of the sizes work for me. Hence my 2019 Stumpy.
@@lee_likes_bikes I just bought an S3 Enduro frame as a replacement. At 5'10, I'd be about 7mm off from your RAD+ calculations. After investing in two frames, I'm overdue for massive financial hindsight. If I had a chance to do this over again, maybe I would've bought a Santa Cruz Megatower. The reach (high or low) would've fit me. The comparison of price and reviews lead me to the Enduro.
@@lee_likes_bikes Just found this video after I purchased a new 2021 stumpy, I'm 6'0 and going by the size chart I had picked the smallest size in my height range (S4). But using the data from this video, it appears I should have gone with an S3 :( I haven't even picked up the bike yet as it's being shipped in from out of state.
I'm 186cm tall and I was riding nukeproof Scout 290 in size L. I had 50mm stem and saddle all the way back. My frame developed crack after about 1 year.
I bought second frame same model but size XL. Now I run 42mm stem and my saddle is exactly in the middle. Bike feel far more stable and I feel far more confident
Nice! I'm only a few CM taller than you and just bought a nukeproof scout 290 in XL. Should be in the sweet spot for a neutral RAD formula perspective, anyway.
Awesome video. I appreciate you guys making this!! I learned a lot from this!! Thank you.
Glad it was helpful. So cold in that garage. : )
What a good channel to stumble upon. My LBS also likes to recommend one size too tall btw.
I've been keen on the RAD sizing system ever since I took a 2 hour lesson with Lee in 2017. My bikes are the funnest!! haha
How much did you pay? Lol
THIS IS LIFE CHANGING
Heck yeah!!! Bike = Life.
Thanks guy's, this helped me a lot. Love your channel, it's very much appreciated 🤙
Thanks Rob!!!
Thanks so much for this vid, I'm just getting into MTB and with the info from your vids, I'm confident I'll get the right size!
Looimg forward to the builds on these to see the results.
Those frame look super nice.
Me too!!
This was a really cool video, you guys nailed it, I'm here in my office at my desk pausing your video while doing calculations with a pen and paper. HAHA! Good stuff, Frank M.
I had fun getting my bikes on the footstools and discovering what was fitting. Shocked how good the DH bike fit!!!!
@@JoyOfBike Yeah i have to figure out a way to set something up like that to see how my new bike is going to fit, i'm praying its going to be sized right for me, im going to get a 45mm stem like you had suggested for me a while back, my bike was suppose to be here this saturday but the ships are delayed off shore, just waiting for their turn to unload. Freakin figures. lol!
So well discussed, explained and needed. Cheers and thanks you for the breakdown 🤙🏻
Thanks!!!
This blew my mind. Thank you!
GOLD I TELL YOU! GOLD!
I can highly recommend Lee's book "Dialed" where he goes into other sizing details! Good stuff guys :)
🙏
Thank you. Alex designed the cover. Super sweet.
I just received Dialed and have never before been so glued to a book. I only wish I had this knowledge BEFORE buying a medium '21 Transition Scout. I'm 171.5 cm tall in riding shoes and the Scout has a reach of 460! Kills my back. It's super stable at speed but I can't shred like I did on my small 2012 stumpjumper FSR. I think this Scout is too long to correct for my fit needs 😭
Please forward this video to every bike manufacturer on earth! Lee’s book on bike geo is what I used to size my current bike and I got it as close to my RAD as possible. Instant connection with my bike on the first ride. Thanks for making this video and big respect for supporting Grow Cycling!!
🙏
This video makes so much sense. I get told by so many ppl i should be on a large but found they are uncomfortable on climbing and all day riding. Now both my bikes are mediums and there great for all day pedalling and climbing as well as pointing down hill.
This is SOOOOO refreshing!
I have suspected this for some time but was unable to figure out the science myself.
You guys have nailed it!
Every bike magazine, test rider, retailer and distributor in the UK should be made to watch this video.
The industry is constantly pushing for longer and the mags here always recommend sizing up so you're more centred in the bike. Yes, you'll be more centred, but who wants to spent their whole ride looking like they're doing the 'downward facing dog' in yoga?
I ride an older (2017) bike which, as luck would have it, fits me perfectly using your guide. Henceforth, I'm adopting the R.A.D. approach and I'll be recommending it to everyone remotely interested in riding.
Lee, you're a biking wizard!
Right on! Thank you!
Yes the media is definitely to be blamed. I hope everyone soon realizes modern manufacturer recommended sizes are useless for progressing skills. Chris Porter and Cesar Rojo also need to be blamed. They are the dirty slobs who made riding with heavy hands fashionable. Lee you are a genius and you are the hero the world of mountain biking needs.
Thanks for producing these videos- I've been using my quick and dirty rad calculation on bikes 2018-2021 with mostly favorable results, aside from a 2020 Salsa, which is a pretty huge outlier, but I see some today which are a little out of whack. For instance, my ideal reach, using the method in the video, falls between 440mm-450mm but when I look at something like the 2022 Orbea Occam, which the size chart says that I should go for a size large on at 5'10" it has a reach of 474mm- That's a pretty massive difference! On the other side of the spectrum, I've got my 2020 Salsa Timberjack in size medium that feels about right but it has a reach of just 430mm, which pretty far off the rad minus scale. Are bikes in 2023 just going to have a longer reach even when the fit is just right because that seems to go against the whole premise of the video? Thanks.
**Just to update that I ultimately ordered a size medium Orbea Occam, based on the fact that my ideal rad number, using calculations illustrated in the video, came out to: Neutral: 447.5, Minus 438.5 and Plus 456.45. The large Occam reach came in at what appeared to me to be an enormous 474, whereas medium is 450. So, medium all the way, right? That's what I thought and so I blew off what the size chart said "160-175 63.0"-68.9" M
170-185 66.9"-72.8" L" and sized down. Well, this may be an anomaly (the seat tube angle is rather steep on this particular bike and the effective top tube comes in considerably shorter than my existing bike, which only has a 5mm difference on the reach at 455) but I immediately felt too big when I got on the medium Orbea- It felt like I was being nudged too far forward over the bars and toward the front wheel and my lower half felt cramped like I might tag my leg with the bars in a more demanding technical situation on the trail and the whole thing felt claustrophobic w/out the sense of any kind of leverage advantages illustrated. When I got off the bike, I could visually see the smallness of the cockpit vs. what I'm used to. So, my word of caution is that while this method seems to work for most of my bikes, including my size medium 2019 Santa Cruz Chameleon hardtail(seemingly perfect w/40mm stem) and my size medium 2021 Marin Rift Zone 3(also very near perfect when using a 40mm stem w/perhaps a touch of rad+)- Both of which are consistent with my Rad number, this Orbea, which on paper looked right, felt all wrong on the bike. The shop offered to have a large shipped from another store but I ultimately opted to stick w/my Marin as there was no way that I was sizing up to large with a 474mm reach on the Orbea and the medium w/450mm was decidedly too small- So much so that I don't believe a longer stem or saddle slammed to the rear would have made it right. It would appear that something on the level of a M/L on the Orbea with maybe between 460-465mm-ish reach reach would have done me justice but no such animal exists.
Anyway, hope that helps for anyone looking at that particular bike or one with similar geometry to it.
I experienced something similar. I am currently deciding between an M and L Canyon Spectral. My Rad number is 460 and that is exactly size M. But while demoing both M and L, I found that M felt way too small and L felt more natural. Size M felt like I was almost going otb in my normal attack position. I wonder what's going on here 🤔
This is the most helpful video I have ever watched … I’m so glad I did before I ordered my new bike … thanks guys!
Quick update .. at 6 foot 1 inch I went from 487 reach to 465 reach and it completely changed the game … I ride every trail faster without even trying, jump easier, climb easier and manual easier … thanks again!!
You guys rock. Thanks for putting this up. I've really benefited from the cornering vid too. Pushing into those loose over hard packed corners and not eating sh$t... Very cool feeling. Cheers!
Right on. Welcome to the crew!!!
"It was my understanding, that there would be no math..."
- President Gerald R. Ford
(Okay, fine. Chevy Chase said it.) Another great video from you both! I will be calculating my 'RAD' tonight for sure but wanted to add that this not only helped to visualize how frame geometry numbers equate to fit but more importantly - mobility. I can't wait to see what you guys come up with when the temp reaches -30!
Ha! Thank you.
LOL. The good news is you don't have to do it over and over. Unless the industry starts going with longer stems again. (Doubtful for a while) Your happy reach number is gonna be pretty consistent.
Do steep seat angles make up for these longer reaches though? I’m looking at a Norco Torrent and at 178cm tall they put me in the middle of the size large range which has a 480 reach. Medium has 450 reach, but everyone says it will be cramped pedaling with the steep seat tube. No way for me to test ride them unfortunately.
My new favorite mtb channel btw. Love the stoke, keep up the great work!
If you spend most of your day in the saddle the longer bike will feel more comfortable. If you stand and do dynamic moves up and down hill the shorter bike is how I would go. A lot of people ride in circles in a parking lot to test a bike and so the bike with the proper reach actually feels too small in this sit and spin situation.
Thanks for explaining why I have always loved medium bikes when the size chart puts me in a large!
Happy to help!
OMG, we need a pump track in Los Angeles SO BADLY!!! How do we not have one already! Thanks for supporting this cause.
Sam Hill also rides a Medium frame.
That is a cool way of measuring. I'm not adverse to very long frames, for aerodynamics, comfort, etc. Size charts put me on an L/XL, but tend to ride a M/L.
I only have one 2' step OMG what to do? I did have six cinder blocks though, perfect. Actually I only used four, two laying and two standing because I didn't want to make another trip.
Thank you guys for all the videos. In my experience with purchasing a bike, most LBS ask you for your height and have you stand over it and try and put you out the door. I’ve always felt a little short changed and confused since geometry is put on a pedestal in the MTB world. When you are spending serious money on a toy you should expect the details to be right. You guys have confirmed what I believed, simplified this concept, and given me tools to take with me on my next purchase.
Guys, thank you for this video. I'm trying to decide what mountain bike to purchase as an entry-level but room to grow bike and I'm getting told all kinds of stories. I ride a little small women's hardtail around town and feel really nimble on it but these bike shop guys keep saying that I should be on a medium. Now I have numbers to use to explain what the small frames in fact DO fit me better! I love learning about this topic so thank you!!
It's zero outside..you guys crack me up...
great video! I am 5'10, I have a small transition patrol, works really well. A medium would probably be fine as well, but a large would definitely be way too big for me!
Saw a guy your size on a large yesterday that was RAD++. I think the M is a great call.
BUT SMALL IS PROBABLY EVEN BETTER!!
GREAT CHANNEL BY THE WAY! PEOPLE THINK ALL THE SHREDDERS ARE ON HUGE BIKES. CHECK OUT THIS CHANNEL PEOPLE.
Binge watching your vids. So good!!
@@JoyOfBike haha thanks
I love these videos, no stupid numbers just the facts. I own an old boardman mtb that I love but it old and the wrong size, I’m watching these videos to choose my next bike and make the right decision.
Wow! Solid info! Never heard of this and its blowing my mind!
Thanks!!!
6'6 here Xl warden 520mm reach is perfect with 35 rise bars
This is all really valid. I’ve always ridden a size large Specialized epic or Cannondale scalpel but the reach is crazy long on the new epics until my last one which I got in 2017. Now the reach is 460 and unless I get a stem the size of an ant’s pecker, a large would be too long. But on a medium I’ll have a TON of post showing and the drop between the saddle and the bars will be a lot which is crummy for seated handling and my back. Seems like a fail to me.
probably the most helpful bike fitting video I've seen! Thanks for making it easy and breaking it down! You have confirmed my suspicions that my current bike is too big. I relate perfectly to your YT story although I have stuck it out for 2 season now haha. I'll be looking to swap the frame now.
The bike was so hot and new and hard to get that I sold it for list. Lost out on shipping and tax. Aaaarg.
First off, you guys are so great. I watch all your videos -so informative and inspiring and a little spiritual.
Secondly, I so appreciate this information on sizing. Spent the summer riding my 2008 Kona Lisa HT hardtail - a re-introduction to mountain biking since I bought it so long ago. I have been enjoying it so much, so much joy, best thing ever. But, the bike... while I love its responsive, snappy fun... I can feel just about every little thing in the trail. I think is slowing me down and wearing me out a little unnecessarily. It's probably time for an upgrade to a modern bike for modern conveniences. And this has been a little overwhelming!
I am a small rider (under 5' 4"). I know I'm going to have some adaptations to make with new geometry, but I also know there's a big risk for getting something that's just too big, too long, or not down-scaled appropriately for smaller frames. I also think I'd like to stick to a hardtail, which means fewer options as well.
All that said, this good information makes me feel so much more prepared to navigate the process of finding a well-fitted bike. I really really appreciate it! Thank you!
I'm 6'5" tall and my XL bike with a 60mm stem and a 40mm rise bars is still too small but it is 1000% better than my old bike so I am stoked
Heck yeah!
Preach! I like my RAD ever so slightly small. Feels great on the trail or on the BMX track.
P.S. Louisville, KY would be a perfect spot to work with Grow on a pump track too. 😉
I've been surprised. For sure on the BMX I'm RAD minus but I kinda go that way on all my bikes. I thought I was a plus guy. Nope. Keep shredding!!!
Agree 💯. Spot on analogy to help us understand the new bike sizing conundrum. I’m 6’ tall and ride a medium Santa Cruz 5010 V4. Everyone told me I’m crazy for not getting a large. Thanks for the video!
Right on!
@@JoyOfBike on trek bikes , for the fitness fx bike, it says medium some one max height of 5’8, I bought a large and an 5’11 , not sure if it is bad , my only issue is saddle discomfort
Glad I found this because I've been having serious thoughts on how I currently fit my bike and how I can further optimize it. 👍👍👍
Perfect!
This makes sense to me. I started mountain biking a year ago, and at 6.2.5", the LBS sized me into an XL. It feels too large. I plan to ride it for this season but size down in my next bike.
I’m 6’2” and my large feels great
If your arms are 34 inches long, you may have to go to size medium based on this method.
Fantastic truth bomb content guys, I recently jumped on board with Lee's ride logic online material and it has been by far the best upgrade made to my bike/riding for years, much appreciated...
Thank you!!
Thank you! Saved my low back and wrists. Checking RAD. Shopping new bikes!
Thank you so much video! Very helpful for answering our customers questions when they are in-between sizes
WONDERFUL!!!
Agree, totaly R.A.D. Sweet dudes. A Big 'Ay up', from the Yorkshire Dales, Uk.
Hey Lee and Alex, will there be some merch with just Joy of Bike coming? I'd love to support the channel, my bike skills have improved a ton the past month because of your videos
Under the video you should see a couple t-shirts that we set up in a t-spring store. Let me know if they are not showin up.
Same
@@sybarite5videos You see it or you don't see it?
@@JoyOfBike Link isnt working unfortunately.
@@djowelv Try it now?
wow! Love your content. I wasn't sure about the size to get and boom! I feel it right a way it was the right size for me. Thank you!🤩
You are so welcome!
One word: Brilliant!
Wow! I’m 6’ (183 cm) and have long arms. My “preferred “ reach has been 470 cm. I’ve never tried a medium bike because I’m squarely in the L frame size according to every chart. I’m going to do the step ladder thing to check my fit. I may have been riding bikes too big forever😟
what was the outcome ? i'm 182 cm long arms, looking to get a new bike , according to every chart i'm on L frame, but i did the math and loooks size M 455 reach . what was your take on the ladder thing ? thanks
@@stratoskatsipidis9395 same here with 183cm and long arms. 183*2,5=457,5. I meassured my bikes RAD with 85cm, so is the number 457,5 my perfekt reach 45,75cm ???
Very interesting thought. I’m 5.10 and always between a M and L. I’ve always opted for the M since I just prefer being able to move the bike around. It feels justified now 👍🏼
Me too. But be on the lookout. There are supposed S bikes that are too long for me to enjoy. Wild.
27.5 or 29??
@@miguelfragoso7023 29” in my case
Wow another gold level video. Thanks!
Lees kung fu is unmatched, his reach calc was dead on for all my previous favorite bikes. This man has been the guru for 20 years!
This was THE most interesting video I have watched in the last few weeks of catching up on latest trends - after 20yrs pause from MTB. Wanting to get back into it, I have a size L Merida big.trail on pre-order (thanks COVID!), based on recommendation from bike shop. Recommendation was based on the reach between M and L being similar (435 vs 455), but standover on this model being very low and needing to extend seat tube extremely for an upright ride. Having now calculated my R.A.D, size M (435) is a perfect neutral fit for me (Merida's sizing chart is actually spot on). I realise now the the perceived small difference is in fact huge - 455 is beyond R.A.D+ for me! I guess I'll call the bike shop ASAP and amend my pre-order to a medium bike! Thanks heaps - I'd be spewing after waiting 3 months for new bike and finding it big, now knowing this formula!
Did your bike come in? Have you been happy with the medium?
@@battlegoatracing Yes, had the bike for a little while now and very happy with it. Overall it's a great bike. Really smooth over rough terrain. Feels a little short when seated, but that's due to steep seat tube angle and me coming from traditional XC geometry. Only niggling issue is low BB and 175mm cranks = pedal strikes. I'll probably try 165mm cranks one day. I suspect 435mm chainstay makes it hard to pop the front wheel. Not sure if large would make that even harder or give more leverage? I'd be curious how the large feels, but medium is RAD for me. I'd say for varied and nimbler riding M is good, for pointing it downwards mostly, L is probably better - if between sizes.
Wow, I thought I was the only one using rad measurements!
The best part of my CZcams watching week...every time. (Plus every video reminds me I need to work on my manual skills so that I’m a manual king by the end of this year!)
Yes!!!
I’m hoping to put together a big bike manual vid this spring.
I have felt like this was true, glad to hear someone else say it.
😎
The RAD measurement seems like it may not factor in if i have short arms for my height. I'm 5'11" on a 460 hard tail,which seems good, but the stock stem is 60 mm, and my arms are not much longer than my 5'8" wife. i felt so stretched out that i asked the LBS to add a whole bunch of spacers under the stem. I'm trying to see if the stem (35-40 mm) or up sweep bar (20-30 deg) upgrade would be the best choice. I going to set up some RAD measurement device first, though, just to try.
My last bike was a 2011 Norco Shore, no reach measurement, only theoretical top tube.
Yea, reach is better to go by, then you can adjust the cockpit to fit with height, the rå dmeasurment is more to get setup the same with same reach and geo bike I guess. But u can have same rad number but tet have shorter reach taller bike or longer reach and lower cockpit. So make no sens eto go by that.
I knew something was off with modern bike sizing! When I getting my first mtb they put me on xl based on my height and after a couple day I brought it back and told them I wanted a smaller one. I tried medium and large and the medium felt waaaaay more natural, made me feel like it was an extension of my body. Salesmen looked at me like I was insane.
Curious, how tall are you? I'm in-between m and l at 6' with short arms and torso
@@KerryFairbanks I'm about 6' as well. My newest bike is a large and fits me right. They really vary in size between manufacturers.
Same look from my bike salesman. I’m 6’ and fit a medium Specialized better. The salesman looked at me like I was crazy, but I’ve “learned” by purchasing bigger frames bikes in the past.
When I picked up my bike I noticed a newbie about my size picking up his XL (same bike model). Yikes. I feel bad not saying anything but didn’t feel it was my place. He didn’t seem to notice me leaving with a medium.
Joy of Bike thanks for the great video and explanation!
What an awesome instructional video with a lot of great humor. I just recently was looking at getting my first intro mountain bike for 90% commuting and dabbling a bit on trails with my son. I am 5'9" tall and was considering a M/L but went with a Medium instead. The bike shop salesperson really didn't seem to know much about this issue it seems but this makes perfect sense.
Thanks guys. That's really good advice.
Appreciate the kind words!!!
I honestly don't understand how you guys consistently manage to provide the best information on youtube. Y'all are so rad
I'm 5'11" and I love a 450 reach, and I swear if one more sales guy tells me I should be on a 470 I'm gonna loose it.
Thanks so much!
Stick to your guns!!
Hi guys, thanks for the video ! Very helpful. What I didn't fully understand was the RAD with the height in cm x ~2.5 vs the next item "know your reach". Is the RAD you calculated with the formula given the "reach" you speak about at 10:06 or sth. else? I had thought it being sth. different?
Thanks a lot for your clarification.
I'm wondering the same thing! I've been calculating my "RAD" as height(cm) x 4.47 which lines up with the measurements involved (approx the 80-90cm range). But in this video they seem to be talking about "reach" but still calling it RAD?? height(cm) x 2.5 does seem to match closer to reach numbers (approx 40-50cm range) in my experience.
Hope this helps, but hopefully someone else can clarify the references in the video?
@@KieranSmit In bike geometry terminology "reach" is defined as the horizontal distance between the bottom bracket and the vertical plane of the top of the head tube. It is listed in every bike's geometry chart. So use the height in cm x2.5 calculation to estimate what "reach" number to look for when shopping for bikes.
@@nevets5920 yes I know that. But in this video they're calling it reach but using the technique to measure rad hence the confusion by OP above
I'm loving your channel! After watching this video I ran the numbers and ordered a shorter stem for my trail bike. It feels so much better! I didn't realize how stretched out and uncomfortable I was before.
Great to hear!
Great video. Being average height and between sizes on every size chart is anxiety inducing when it comes to dumping money on a bike. If you’re comfortable on a medium that’s cool if you’re happy on trail barge then that’s cool too. Ride the bikes and work out what’s right but don’t doubt yourself based on what your told.
Man I’m 5’6”. It took everything I have to walk out of a shop with a size small bike. It’s hard on the ego. But I’m glad I did. Thanks for this video. Only thing is I’d like to see closer how you are utilizing the step ladder for a pivot.
Well done!!! Maybe we can do that in a upcoming video.
@@JoyOfBike yes please
Small is fine. Bruce lee was 5.6 and 130 pounds. Didn't seem to hold him back any.
You're buying a bike, not a dick. S M L. Stop worrying about a letter invented by a bike maker. Different manufacturers size differently. One makers small is another makers large. Im not even kidding. Your small bike could be a medium at many other companies. Its all made up....just like everything else in human society. Its all pretend.
@@marcalvarez4890 wake up neo
@@marcalvarez4890 Bruce Lee was made up also, that invalidates your whole argument
This video is extremely informative and I learned a ton. I’m 6’5” and recently bought an XXL YT Izzo because I thought at my height this was a no-brainer. The bike is amazing but the reach is definitely a little too long. I’m going to shorten the stem to a 35mm down from the stock 50mm - this will help but I should have bought the xL.
Look into the pacenti stem too.
Interesting. I'm 6'2" and I was thinking the same way but opposite experience. I have an XT Giant Anthem (biggest size they make) and I've been thinking that the reach is a little too short. Out of the saddle sprinting leaves me feeling that I need more room in the cockpit to produce more power. Maybe I need a longer stem? Geometry and sizing is complicated for me.
This is quite interesting. While your video was on I had to look up the sizing of my current enduro, a Rocky Mountain Slayer 2018. This bike has the Ride4 Flip Chip. I ride in 2 positions (out of 4 obviously), 2 being slightly slacker and 3 being slightly steeper. And your explanation matches my feelings on my bike. When in the steeper setup I'm exactly where I should be for Rad neutral. When I flip to the slacker setting my bike is a Rad minus. And it fits perfectly for the intended purpose. This video kinda verifies my conclusion regarding my bike setup. Awesome
Had to make it 900 comments...its like opening up a box of light...have BIKE JOY brothers. Thank You AGAIN Lee for this gift of simplicity, this is your Magnum Opus w/RipRow coming in a close second, you guys have great chemistry to deliver the goods🤙FULL SEND marks on this video👊
Appreciate you Mark!