Mark Hofmann Case Analysis | Murder Among the Mormons
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- čas přidán 11. 03. 2021
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Mark Hoffman? He was featured in the Netflix docuseries Murder among the Mormons.
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“It’s easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they have been fooled” _Mark Twain_
Preach!
Yup…he would know because of his series of bad financial decisions. MT lost a ton of money on what he called “the machine” and it took him years to figure out it was a lost cause and that he had been fooled himself.
The guy is a clever quip generating machine.
"...best forger who ever lived"
I once saw an interview with an FBI agent who was asked about that. He disagreed saying that Hoffman was the best forger ever CAUGHT.
The fact he practiced to "beat" a polygraph since he was a teenager makes it seem like he was calculating to do bad things for his entire life. Honestly, he gives me the creeps more than a lot of serial killers.
@@jazmine9570 I'm not talking about the method of killing. I'm talking about his personality. For one, Mark strongly demonstrates all factors of the dark triad. But what makes him especially creepy to me is that he planned to do bad things from a young age and already started learning police techniques to cover his tracks. No one called Mark a weirdo in the corner...people who knew him said he was a friendly and fairly outgoing nerd, who everyone liked and believed. Honestly, it's lucky Mark became fixated on documents and serial forgery/fraud rather than violence and serial killing/rape because he probably would have been prolific at that, too.
@@jazmine9570 Ted Bundy has always been known to be "charming." Women openly flocked to his court trials. And now, there have been so many documentaries on him, I don't think many people consider him a "weirdo in the corner." Regardless, Ted Bundy meets the dark triad factors, but I don't think he was as cunning or as intelligent as Mark. Not to mention, Mark had a mastery of polygraping as well as forensic techniques. Like I said before, I think if Mark had gotten off on killing/violence, he would have killed more people and gotten away with it longer than most serial killers, including Bundy. That potential in his personality and ablities is what creeps me out so much.
However, I think you are underestimating the harm and calloussness of the bombs Mark created. You think of a bomb being this instant, impersonal thing, but it's not. It takes a lot of planning and determination to go through with it, creating it and hand delivering it. And in the case of Mark, he filled the bomb with nails, so when the bomb went off, it shredded the victims to pieces and they did not die instantly. I think if you really wanted to put Mark against a killer/rapist, the Golden State Killer would be a better comparison.
Beating a lie detector would probably fascinate him for the possibility of doing so, more than him definitely thinking he would end up in that situation. It seems like his self worth came from the idea of being able to dupe others, and beating a lie detector would be part of that.
polygraph is another fool thing
@@Ash-ms Probably true; he was extremely intelligent and excelled at problem-solving.
"...Building bombs: a tactic with a low success rate for solving financial problems." 😂
ROFL
He could have made money by having a forgery (or real items he collected) verified as legit and then collected insurance when they were mysteriously blown up by a bomb.
@@DeactivatedCharcoal People only get away with that in pulp fiction novels and movies. Hence the humor.
@@normynbaits1135 On the other hand, he could have made fake bombs and sold them to terrorists on the black market! (what are they going to do, call the Police?)
@@DeactivatedCharcoal Butt hurt much?
Hofmann almost escaped before he got prison with his Monopoly "get out of jail free" card, but the guard noticed the card was a forgery. Down below in the right hand corner it was signed with Joseph Smith. Force of habitt I guess...🤣
He's the religious equivalent of Elizabeth Holmes. Intelligent people should have known the likelihood of one person finding multiple one of a kind historical documents was statistically impossible.
Very interesting comparison.
“Intelligent people”
We’re talking about the LDS here. Not exactly a think tank of intellectuals lol
Yes but is his voice low enough?
Ironically, Hoffman has a high squeaky voice. @@Trickboy36
The dry humour is gettin better i almost gave my cat and mom a heartattack Loling so loud
@Aaron A420 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
My favorite was his comment about "demonic pigs lead to demonic bacon which leads to demonic heartburn" LMAO. I can't remember which case it was but to this day I still laugh remembering that one.
It's official, Dr Grande is................"KING OF WIT".
He's got my vote wit A+ I admire him so much for not being stale and above all others he has such empathy
@@calico-kat-mom6204 Agree, his compassion shines through, it's very endearing.
Agreed!
Only if you like deadpan sarcasm. It's actually considered the lowest form of wit.
Master of DRY WIT 💛
I seriously love the deadpan humor
Dr Grande should have his own "Brande" of shirts.
He said he likes the movie Airplane :)
Best comedy ever.
Same! So damn funny
*I do too, it's hilarious!*
@@pablodmdp I love that movie too, I think I might watch it, I've not seen it for a while.
I remember this case so very well. I spent 38 years in the LDS church from birth in 1954-1992. I left because the church cannot stand up to historical accuracy. LDS members believe their prophet at any one time (currently Russell M. Nelson) is a mouthpiece of God giving him guidance to run the church. The biggest embarrassment to the church was prophets are supposed to have the "gift of discernment" to detect lies (as are bishops who conduct temple recommend interviews). Obviously, if that were true they would have KNOWN Hoffman was lying.....but they didn't. Enough said....
Thanks for sharing your experience! It's so interesting how many religious groups claim to have present-day prophets
May i ask if you are still religous?
@@surchristian3518 Thanks for the question! It is a good one. I am not particularly what I would call "religious." I would consider myself to be more "spiritual." I heard a quote once that stuck with me...."Religion is for people who are afraid of going to Hell and Spirituality is for those of us who have already been there." I do consider myself a Christian. I believe in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ. I don't necessarily go to the Catholic church regularly although I do occasionally because I enjoy the quiet reverence and time to think and pray. I don't believe sitting in church every Sunday is going to make you a Christian any more than sitting in a garage every Sunday will make you a car. I feel as close to God at the ocean or on top of a mountain peak. Thanks for asking. Any other questions about the LDS church I would be most happy to answer. I don't consider myself an "anti-Mormon." Most of my family are all still LDS.
@@kkheflin3 I’m going to remember your quote. Thanks.
@@kkheflin3 I use to watch that show about the polygamy families living in Colorado Springs, I think that’s the town. Is that still going on? It was truly sad. Many left but would have to escape of course. Thanks.
He was so good at forging that it is unknown what kind of damage he created in document collections. The pen is mightier than the sword is really true.
Any document he ever touched is considered a forgery but may ironically be collectible due to his notoriety
Forging LDS documents is a redundant statement
LDS... I think I find LSD a better acronym
👍😆😂😆❤️
Pickle...Yep! You are so correct.
Hell yes!!!
🤣🤣🤣
It blows my mind how he was successfully trolling an entire religion
They were gullible because they WANTED to believe what he gave them was either 1) true and would make the church look better or 2) not good information to get to the LDS masses and needed to be suppressed.
Was it one of his bombs that did it? O_o
It's not that hard to believe he fooled mormons. I mean.. they believe the stupidest of things, so ....
@@kkheflin3 to be fair, he fooled more than just them. The FBI deemed oath of a free man legit. Of course, the mormon leadership claim special powers from god, so they probably should have known 😄
it was as if he was pointing out the hypocrisy of the mormons. he was no more of a fraud than the man who founded the latter day saints.
Great topic. I saw the docuseries and was fascinated. Hard to understand how he could be so bold as to create so many different forgies, or bold enough to forge documents that challenged the power of the Church of LDS. More still, how murdering multiple people seemed a resonable solution to his problem is truly perplexing. His callousness about their deaths adds to my inability to understand him.
He survived a bomb and years later a drug overdose. Wow. He really didn’t value anyone’s life.
Neither God or the Devil wanted him
I think possibly the bomb was constructed by him on purpose to be strong enough to only look deadly.
I like the microphone on the right side of the screen. Both the shorter and taller plants get their moment in the sun. And the shade of blue of your shirt is very flattering. (Sorry, I have nothing to comment about Mark Hoffman or the LDS Church but I appreciate your research and insight.)
i think some of the reason he got away with forgery so many times is bc he was selling them to other LDS members, and people of faith often have an easier time trusting someone who appears to share their values
Agreed, you often believe what you want to believe.
Great point.
Yes, true. Another component that I think was influencing purchases was church officials wanting to keep contridicting material secret. But if I understand things, those were forged. I'm not sure though.
No, it’s that ‘people of faith’ have already self-selected to demonstrate that they will gullibly believe evidence-free fictions.
The biggest sales tactic was he would forge documents the painted LDS in a very bad light. Church elders would pay any price and then either destroy them or put them where they would never be seen because they didn't want anyone to know.
I am from Utah and my older brother actually knew Mark Hoffman. It's such a shame that such a talented intelligent man turned so dark.
"It was like forgery free forgery"...lmao.
Homeopathic forgery
Kind of like fat free whipped cream.
One interesting side note - one of the few pictures of Hoffman with church leaders (if you google that exact phrase you'll see the photo) - was taken after he had killed his first victim. To an outsider of the church you might say so what. To someone who grew up in the church it's an important photo (or at least it should be). Growing up in the church they hammer into you that church leaders have something called the "gift of discernment" (basically its a supernatural ability to determine if your lying) - he sold them documents, and they didn't see anything wrong with him despite the fact that he had committed the most heinous of crimes.
Oh I’ve been waiting for this one! Thanks for bringing the heat and the truth Dr. Grande!!! You’re the 🐐 of doctors!!!!
Who needs a NETFLIX documentary when we fortunately have analysis videos of Dr. Grande about curious cases like this one? 👏
The plants are having fun listening to your analyzes .
YES!! Another long-winded Netflix documentary I can now skip cause Dr. Grande manages to summarise the story in about 10 minutes! 🥳
And does a far better job at it!
@@kkheflin3 well honestly, this video got me curious, so I started watching the documentary on Netflix anyway 😂
@@YvieT81 Yes I did also. It wasn't bad as Netflix documentaries go. I like Magellan TV documentaries far more.
He thought he was so smart but the prosecution really suckered him with that "deal". I bet he thought he could cooperate (i.e. brag about his crimes) and get a light sentence. So satisfying seeing the timelapse of him each decade behind bars.
I really don't see much difference between the golden plates being delivered by a glowing angel or a white salamander, they are both belief in childish magic. The cacti look happy.
The fact that anything at all "exists" is profoundly magical!
From my understanding of Hoffman, he was a forgery of a human being.
Dr Grande.. I love your humor ♥ thank you 😊
Hi Dr. Grande, thank you for your video. I'm wondering if there's any chance that you'll again produce videos on specific mental health topics? These are touched upon a certain amount in your current videos. Though they have their place, I think of them more along the lines of sensational entertainment and not of true educational value. I hope you know what I mean by that. I just wanted to put that out there. Thank you for reading!
Yes I noticed that as well, but I think he did this as a way of increasing his subscribers, as well as adding the humor! Smart Guy. Lol!😆
I’d never heard of Mark Hoffman prior to this video, but the further Dr. Grande went into the details of Hoffman’s crimes, I recognised them from an episode of Law & Order: Criminal Intent, which must’ve been directly lifted from this case! Incidentally, the forger/bomber was played by Stephen Colbert! I’d never seen The Daily Show here in the UK at that time, so I assumed Colbert was a serious actor, he was _that_ good. Imagine my surprise once CZcams came along, & I was _certain_ he looked familiar, until I belatedly made the connection & twigged that it was the same person.🤦🏻♀️ But "Cheers" Dr. Grande, for finally bringing the entire story full circle for me!☺️
I think White Collar the tv show was also based on Mark Hoffman to some extent.
I think Hoffman learned a lot from growing up LDS Utah which made him successful in controlling what they’d believe. He knew how to present in the way that worked when combined with his incredible talent. If he could have addressed his emotional problems and had been self aware, he could have lived smarter and with self control. After all, how one appears is mostly what matters in any religion.
It’s fascinating how his study of Joe Smith etc. seemingly led him to create forgeries of his own.
Monkey see. Monkey do.
Touche!
Hoffman totally makes me want to do forgeries for $$$cash but sadly I do have a conscious...and that prevents me...
So what you're telling me is that avoiding the weird religious kids who were obsessed with card collecting was a smart move, in retrospect.
he was an aethiest so.... no
@@marylogue31 yeah but not openly...
@@marylogue31 Beg to differ. Back then he WAS a religous kid.
"Like a get out of jail free card perhaps" ...😆 Great analysis Dr.Grande!Thanks again.
Can you do Jill Filipovic and her recent statements about how stay at home moms are unambitious and a bad example for their children?
Please do a video on how people can recover once leaving the Mormon cult, many are leaving after the years of deception is being brought to light, but don’t know what to do with the feelings of betrayal and leaving a culture. The CES letter documents the deception. Thanks Dr. Grande you always keep it interesting!
I agree with this request. I left the Jehovah Witness cult I was raised in in 1973 without any support from anyone, including the therapist I was seeing for group therapy. She said if I wanted to talk about it I would have to do it in the group setting. Later, I did share with the group, but I was so anxious I could hardly breathe. Fast forward 45 years. I am still triggered by any Protestant religion. Many of my relatives on my mother's side are evangelical and I can't handle the things they say at all. I can sit through a Catholic service, but ultimately I became an atheist and I get NO comfort from any religion at all. I am a victim of religious abuse amount other things. I have CPTSD and a lot of it was caused by years and years of being told god was going the kill almost everybody during Armageddon and it could happen at any second.
I spent 38 years in the LDS church from birth in 1954 until 1992 when I realized it was all bogus. It is a very "high demand religion" and difficult to leave. They followed us through five states when we moved and continued to try to get us back into the church. I've never heard of ANY other church that does that. Recovering is tough. Ex-mo Lex has a great channel to check out.
@@kathleenreardon8943 Leaving the JW's is as difficult as leaving the LDS church. I was LDS for many years and watch a lot of channels for ex-Mormons. Ex-mo Lex is my favorite in terms of a support group. Telltale has a great channel for ex-JW's.
@@kkheflin3 yeah you don’t realize how intense they are until you try to leave! Thanks I will check that site you mentioned out.
@@marleymae6746 Also Zelph on a Shelf is great. Lots of humor thrown in but you might enjoy. Let me know what you think!
Thanks for the analysis! I enjoyed this docuseries and was confused about the murders, too. Hofmann added tragedy when there didn't need to be any.
A little Grande with my latte. Thanks Doc. Above zero celsius in Ottawa. Still three feet of snow in front yard. Sigh.
It's melting in Québec City!
🏆
If only he'd put his talents to good use! Wonderful video as usual Doc🙌💜🌈💜
Sounds like he would have made Joseph Smith proud.
Spot on!!
Aw man 😂😂😂
A true patriot!
@T Z Thank you for blatantly explaining his death the way it truly occurred. They always decorate it with all of this heroism, and ribbons, and glory. Nice to hear someone just tell it like it is! Thank you!
Ouch!
I am so glad that Netflix has a series on Hoffman and that you covered it. I first heard of Hoffman in the book The Poet and the Murderer which also covers Hoffman’s forgery of Emily Dickinson- it’s a good book!
5 Years to Life? That's a strang criminal sentence. I've never heard of a possible life sentence starting with a number as low as 5 years. Weird.
Probably to entice him taking their plea deal.
Does Utah still execute with a firing squad?
@@jacobscarr2334 he killed two people 🤨
@@SHurd-rc2go Yes they do,
IF REQUESTED BY THE CONDEMNED. Utah offers this option to satisfy the Mosaic Law of Blood Atonement, as taught by Brigham Young and practiced by the Danites (chiefly Porter Rockwell,
aka The Destroying Angel).
See "The Executioner's Song" about Gary Gilmore,
a lapsed Mormon who requested this method of death so his blood might be spilt upon the ground, thus providing a means by which he might be forgiven of what is otherwise considered an unpardonable sin.
I think they threw that 5 yrs. In there to make him think he might get out that soon and would make a deal.
Just finished washing my dishes, now it's time too hear you "speculate" Dr Grande. Happy days.
I use my earbuds and the good doctor helps me do my housework too!
@@knittnpretty Great idea, I must try that, lol.
Well that was pretty interesting Dr G! Crazy. Never a dull moment on your channel I think we all really appreciate you! Thanks again.
Dr Grande thank you for all the content and humour you upload everyday. You and your channel never fail too make my day.
I love your dry sarcastic humour! A kindred spirit!
I wasn't aware of this case, thank you Dr.Grande for another great video!
I've been waiting for this!
Dr Grande.... you are not only a brilliant scholar... you are also a hoot. So appreciate your constantly unexpected, intersections of dry humor!
Happy Friday Dr.! Great way to start the weekend off right!
I was waiting for this video!! 🙌🏻🙌🏻
Dr. Grande, another incredible analysis, your combination of intelligence and wit is extraordinary!! Thank you so much for all your very hard work!! ♡
Also, I soooo loved seeing that adorable little cactus family on display together!! 🌞
Thanks for another excellent analysis Dr.Grande 😊🌵
Could you do a video on David D’amato aka. “The Tickle King”? Crazy story. Trust me on this one. He was truly a real life super villain.
One of my favourite documentaries, but one of the hardest to recommend to my straight friends
@@tylergee3043 They are uncomfortable watching a documentary about a gay man or what?
This sounds nuts! I’m totally about to look it up! 😳😳😳
@@OGitGirlJess Yes. I really fkn hope he'll make a video covering this. Again - this man was a real life super villain. It's sick.
Thanks for the post Dr!
Yay! Glad you analyzed this story!
Thank you so much for this!
Thanks I was waiting for my request!!!
I found your account of this subject better than the limited series on Netflix.
Me also. I watched the Netflix series first and wish I had just watched this first. Dr. G cut to the chase much better!
Just watched this on Netflix! I always love to hear your take on these cases💗💖💗👍🏼
Yasss I have been waiting for this video!
The Dr Grande for another great analysis 💕
Thanks Doc.
Hadn't heard of this case before so it proved to be quite a fascinating listen.
Great video.. so much information and yet a brief video full of insight.
I’d like to see a video on “ mostly harmless “ the hiker .
Yaassss!!! Been waiting for this. Thanks Dr. Grande for listening to my suggestion
Who else hopes you never end up being talked about on this channel by Dr G😅
I HAVE thought about that 😃.
Thought has crossed my mind.
I’d unfollow.
My life is 99.9% too boring.
It never occurred to me but I do wonder how he'd explain my personality and it upsets me ...it probably means I need to change
Yep
Thanks This is my favorite analysis so far. Love your shirt color and the plants in the background.
💙
I love your content so much! 🥰
The idea that his grandfather practiced polygamy was compelling enough that he could walk away from his religion but a prophetic amphibian serving as a pillar to his faith was just "meh" ?
Priceless.
He made up the salamander part. It was taken in part by the actual truth though, so yeah, magic and salamanders led him to leave. He knew about them.
i thought he was an atheist
@@marylogue31 yes.
No. He knew there was no salamander because *he made the letter up*. However, it tied well enough with folk magic and superstition that the leaders of the lds church believed it, and wanted to buy it to hide it away.
Anxiously awaiting my Dr. Grande merch. Give us more!!!
This was fascinating!!!!!!!
6:11 *Joseph Smith, Not John
This was a good one!
Thanks for analyzing this case.
Thank you Dr Grande!
Day 7 of asking Dr Grande to consider the Daniel Holtzclaw case. I would really love to see his analysis of this case.
Hi Todd ! Watever you do will be super interesting and super osm !!! N ...loving dis shirt too 😍😍!!!
We just finished watching the Netflix documentary. This is a fascinating follow-up on him from the documentary. Your dry dark humor
made me laugh.
I saw the documentary a week ago and was going to ask if maybe you could do a video on him! You read my mind!
So looking forward to you hitting the 700K, Dr Grande. I can't imagine going to sleep without your daily analysis. If I may also request a topic I would like to hear more about it would be copy-cat killers. Maybe you could look into individuals like Eddie Seda, the Zodiac Killer copy-cat or Mark A. Twitchell, that had planned to be the real Dexter Morgan but got caught after his first murder and what drives people like them. I would like to know what kind of mental health issues are going on in cased like these. I did not find videos regarding this subject but please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong. Thx. 🤞
I spent my childhood in the 80s and owned (and used) a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook. I made all kinds of weapons and so did a lot of my friends, it really was normal for kids back in the day.
Arguably...your best dead pan ever
Thanks once again Dr Grande
💙💙💙 love you Dr. Grande! 💚💚💚
Oh WOW LOVE the cactus arrangement today!!!!!
12 hrs on top of his arm withered it to bone???? i feel like ive slept on my arm for a few hours until its totally dead and it goes back to normal in like 30 seconds
Yeah, but maybe you haven't pissed off the Almighty Father (yet).
@@evelynwaugh4053 true, i guess the almighty father is protecting my dead arm from withering (thank you yahweh
@@feeltheillinois Just don't get on his bad side. Look at what happened to Lot's wife, and lots of others; he's got a bad temper when you rile him up.
@@evelynwaugh4053 🤣
Great as always! Cheers from northern Europe. I was thinking that as you did one on Breivik, maybe take on Pekka-Eric Auvinen?
Recently found your channel and really enjoy your work!
Would be very interested in an analysis video on Anatoly Moskvin AKA The Russian Doll Man, a very morbid case for sure but also supremely bazaar from a mental health view point.
oh sweet lord I just stumbled on that nightmare today
@@cacu3989 indeed...not for the faint of heart is putting it lightly.
Hearing the phrase “explosive assisted financial remediation” has really made this day better.
Thank you so much for your videos Dr. Grande! You're my favorite, so much thought put into everything you put out.
I would love for you to analyze the Canadian Vicent Li who was let off of murder due to mental illness, its always been a terrifying case for me as he was released close to where I live. How dangerous of a condition is schizophrenia?
Rarely do they get violent. Hollywood has done people with schizophrenia a huge disservice.
I ask this as a slightly personal question as well I guess. My brother is schizophrenic and when it was first being diagnosed he was extremely violent but he settled down over time.
My SO ex wife was diagnosed in the past two years and she.. well she's capable of just about anything we shall leave it at that, although with her it might just be personality. We've been together longer than they were married and dating combined but she's STILL so hateful.
Guess I was wondering if it was out of the norm or possibly worse during onset of the disorder.
What a terrifying case. If he was a little more subtle and less violent, he may have never gotten caught. There may be loads of similar forgeries out there we will never know about.
You know I was very intrigued by this story until he murdered.
Please, for future reference, ANY potential criminals, just stop short, before homicide!
It puts a real downer on the story.
I think if we have learned anything from Dr. Grande, is that murder seldom produces positive results and any sympathy, for the victimizer, goes out the window!
This guy reminds me of the phrase "there's a sucker born every minute"
Thanks, Dr. Grande. I knew of Hoffman’s forging LDS documents but appreciated learning Hoffman’s background and other crimes. Just amazes me how people can set aside logic.
I saw this trending on Netflix today and thought about whether you would do a video on it, then I see you on my CZcams feed
The Dr. delivers! 😆
I watched this documentary a week or two ago. I grew up in the Church and I found the entire documentary incredibly fascinating. If he had successfully forged the 116 pages, he would not just be changing the Church's history, but their scripture also. I don't even want to know what scripture written by him would be like. Great analysis Dr. Grande.
Dr. Grande, it’s interesting that Hoffman chose a white salamander over an angel to lead Joseph Smith to the gold plates. I would think that an angel could move faster and be easier to understand than a salamander. Off topic, your cacti blooms are lovely!
@@somethingelse4424 thank you for that explanation!
Thank you Dr Grande.. you saved me from hours of Netflix torture.
That table with the little plants in colorful pots looks so cute! 🌿🎋🎍💕
A Minimalist Maestro 👨🏫
He doesn't believe in an after life. What if when he dies, he discovers that there is an after life? Then what you're going to do, Sparky?
What if his wife or children were killed, would he have the same callous disregard for life?
Please do an analysis on ARIEL CASTRO. Thank you!
Dr Grande could you please consider getting some kind of venue fly trap 🤓