Gaming on Linux is NOT Ready... - Daily Driver Challenge Finale
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
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It's been a month of Luke and Linus running Linux at home, and the frustrations are piling up. Just how easy is it to play whatever games you want on a Linux distro? What's the final verdict on daily driving Linux in 2021?
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
0:52 The Premise
2:35 Steam
5:05 Windows Native Games
7:07 Native Linux Support
8:20 Fragmentation
9:58 Troubleshooting
13:00 Proton DB
15:00 Conclusion
17:20 Outro - Věda a technologie
For me, hats off for game companies that have Linux version of their games.
Cool unless you try to launch it and discover that it's 5 major updates behind. I'm sticking to Proton'ing everyting for now. Haven't had as many issues as Luke and Linus, but I guess that's because they've tried some brand new / AAA titles.
@@cabronsnake you forgot to say that you use arch
I use arch btw
Real talk I would say fuck all the so called AAA company's
who don't make their games Linux compatible. they have the money
I mean at least valve does
but they don't make games anymore so
@@rgbforever4561 ‘cause it doesn’t worth the effort
Theyre the only ones that get my money.
Out of all this, I just love that Luke, Linus and his son play games together
@@creepysmilingcarl9742 yeah it's quite a fun activity, me and my dad played video games all the time, even now we do occasionally
That's cuz they don't have real friends
@@creepysmilingcarl9742 I play games with my 9yo sister :) It's pretty cool tbh
there's a pathetic answer to be given about this
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Honestly, I think the Linux community needs this kind of feedback occasionally. Please come back to this challenge again periodically, because every bug a high profile CZcamsr runs into is one that's going to pick up more traction to get fixed.
Plus, for you it'll be a good measuring-stick for when the fabled Year of the Linux Desktop has arrived.
Couldn't agree more 👏
I would love for there to be an annual update to this for sure. Especially with Steam Deck's effect on the industry, I think this may be changing rapidly.
100%
Gaming on Linux has made some massive leaps since this series was published, games like Apex Legends that were marked as "borked" on Proton are now rated as "gold" or "platinum" and are fully playable, and I believe it's all because of videos like these slapping the community back into reality and getting them together to work on improving all the issues Linux has rather than denying them.
@@PoppyPoppa That had nothing to do with the Linux community. Apex was borked because of EAC, which the devs have to opt-in to support Linux. Respawn decided not to be assholes and finally opted in. The driving force behind this newfound surge in compatibility is the Steam Deck.
I’d like to think Linus’s son is just happily playing whatever game his dad wants to, but then hops onto a discord channel with Luke and goes “suit up nerd we’re playing Warzone.”
Luke does strike me as the sort of uncle-figure who would be like that.
what, why?
@Stupid Baka Overrated meme.
@@sockettgirl ?
@@sockettgirl ?
The script work on this episode was amazing. Amazing to see both of you talk back to back in similar avenues. Give props to the writers!
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This one was a Linus & Luke special from the get-go. They've actually been talking to each other a lot over the course of this happening. No doubt they worked together on the script itself via a Google doc or similar.
Please report spam. Thank you.
I think they wrote the script in a shared document.
My TL;DR with Linux gaming after like 2 years of daily driving it is: It can be hit or miss, with the misses being a potential timesink to turn into a hit, or just unfixable on your side.
Agh
Some of these problems are mirrored when using Linux for work.
Vendors that say "oh you're making an iso install of our OS? And you found bugs in our code doing that? Too bad we don't support this use case that everyone uses!"
bro steam is literally like 2 gigs what in the hell
like me trying to OC my monitor under Xorg. Read wikis, forums, nothing. Few months later I asked in the Arch forum and got my answer within a hour
Making SMB work without Active Directory is so much a pain in a mixed Windows Vista-7-10-11 environment with printer sharing and Windows hostnames
If you get a miss that takes more than a couple minutes to find a fix for, just reboot into your Windows install. No Linux gamer I know of doesn't dual boot, unless they truly don't care about multiplayer or brand new games.
I would LOVE a remake of this series, a LOT has happened since this video came out and gaming on linux has come a long way since then.
I want a remake of this video one year later, with all the work Valve has done on proton as well as community driven projects such as heroic launcher and emudeck!
Imagine doing the challenge again today ...
I hope linus doesn't go with manjaro
@@GrozdanGR he would still came up with some reason that linux isnt ready
@@epites-kq7mm I use Linux on my laptop and Windows on my PC, and he'd be right to come up with it because it just isn't ready
Linux is an OS for developers who know how things work and how to make them work. Yesterday I installed the VPN client for my university in order to connect to some services we need to use when I'm home.
It took me more than an hour, I wasn't using an obscure distribution, I was using PopOS, which is pretty much Ubuntu. I got on their website and there was a version for Ubuntu 20.04, I was using 22.04 so I thought it would work, because it should, the same way I expect all Windows 10 software to work on Windows 11, and it does. But it didn't, because to downloaded I needed to add a repo and it apparently used some older certificate that for some reason Ubuntu 22.04 stopped to support at all, not even giving you an option to just say "I know what I'm doing, let me install it".
So there starts the StackOverflow journey searching for fixes, a thread linking to a thread linking to another thread explaining how to fix it. Great, let's just run these commands and... I can't, because apparently the certificate uses a different format that the commands in the fix don't support. And it also somehow broke some other stuff that worked perfectly before. So now I had to find a way to undo the fix so everything started working again, a couple threads later I fixed it, but I was back to square one, no VPN installed.
I kept trying, some other people suggested downloading the installer from some other place, instead of adding the repo, but it wasn't there anymore.
After trying everything I tried before again, just in case I did something wrong, I was ready to give up, but a bit buried under the results I found a different downloads page from the developer's site, and there I found instructions to install it in Ubuntu 22.04, I tried it and it worked!
Now I just had to open the application, set it up and click connect and... nothing happened. Clicked a couple times, nothing happened, tried to connect from the command line, nothing happened. I searched for solutions and saw other people with my problem, but no solutions. At that point I just gave up, thought I'd just install the app for my phone and connect the laptop to the internet through my phone.
Later that day, I turned my laptop on again and tried to connect, just in case, and after giving me an error on first try, it finally worked!
All this experience was to install native Linux software that is not related to gaming, or nvidia or any of those things Linux fans like to blame. I have to say some of these things were the developers' fault, but not everything was their fault, and the same process worked first try without a single error in Windows.
I'm a software engineer student, I have used Linux servers for some time now for different personal projects and I use Linux on my laptop, and it still took me that long.
A regular user would probably give up the second they saw that the install page didn't provide an executable, but commands to run in the terminal. 90% of my classmates, who know how to code and know the basics about Linux but don't have as much experience with it would have probably given up the moment one of those commands spat out a huge wall of text, which also broke the package manager, so you'd have to know which line to open to remove the repo so it will work again.
I also had my issues with gaming (I mostly game on my regular PC which has Windows, so not too big of an issue, but I ended up dualbooting Windows in my laptop so I can play if want to). First of all, not all games are on Steam, and a couple of very popular Steam games don't work at all. Some very popular games that aren't on Steam don't work either. Games that I play. So that's immediately a dealbreaker for gaming. And the problems don't end there. I wanted to use a controller, so I plugged in my Xbox controller, which works on any other machine running a different OS, it's detected, but the input doesn't work at all. I tried updating the drivers, changing the drivers (a regular user wouldn't have tried that at all) but still nothing. My controller still doesn't work, I gave up on that since I don't usually use a controller, but I just use Windows for gaming anyway, because it just works, without doing anything. You could probably play a buggy game with years old drivers on Windows and it would work, but when you try the same thing on Linux with the new updated drivers with specific fixes for that game that you had to go out of your way to install on Linux, it still has issues, and people blame it on the drivers or the developers.
Linux is the best server OS, that's why everyone uses it for that, because unlike Windows Server, it just works and with great performance.
It's a great server for developers, mainly because their applications will probably be deployed on a Linux server, so it's good to test in the same environment. It's also great for developers who like the possibility to customize their OS, I really liked how many plugins I could install for Gnome to make it look and behave just how I wanted.
It's not ready for gaming even for developers, it's not ready for doing things that were meant to be done in Windows even for developers.
I recommend Linux for developers who develop software for Linux servers or developers in general who want to develop software that's not specific to Windows and want to customize their OS
I also recommend it to people who have an old laptop that works very bad with Windows, as long as they only plan on doing VERY basic tasks (browsing, documents, watching media).
For anyone else, I do NOT recommend it, it's going to be a nightmare
I'd like to thank LTT for the video, even though nothing said is shocking or out of blues for me, going though it, verifying and documenting the experience should be very valuable to the community.
As much as I love Linux and I’m competent in it, I totally recognize that I’m somewhat of a masochist.
yeah me too, but it is also so much fun! hours upon hours tinkering my system and make it so it fits perfectly my needs is something i do way tooooo much^^
Finally getting that one app to run properly is such a joy
SAME - I don't love it, but I have used it for work for years. "Simple" and "painless" aren't really adjectives I would associate with Linux anything, especially setting things up. lol
Linux pisses me off. I like it.
Somewhat? I'm right with you
I feel like LTT could implement this into a yearly challenge, seeing how rapid the Linux gaming scene seems to be moving with valve, steam deck and proton.
Coming from a Windows user wishing to migrate to Linux.
I'd recommend to you, first, find a user-friendly distro, do a dual boot with windows, and see what you can do in linux and windows, what you can't do in linux (or you need to do it in a uncomfortable way for ya), what you can't do in windows, and then, you'll have to do a decision. 1.dual boot, 2.windows, 3. linux. i personally use a dual boot of windows 10 and fedora, fedora for development and linux stuff, windows for gaming and stupid stuff, cuz I'm a developer, but I'm also a gamer, and when i want to play games, I WANT to play games without all that additional stuff. hope that this help you in your linux journey
@@reouneru_ Thanks for the recommendations, :) I actually made the switch shortly after posting this message. Started out with endeavouros for a month on kde, it was a dream! Really enjoyed arch and the aur, but decided to move on due to compositor issues with nvidia (flickering and sluggishness on x11).
Then after listening to linux unplugged interviewing christian schaller from fedora talking about their collaboration with nvidia on opening up their gpu drivers, I switched over to fedora and wayland on my lenovo laptop (with switchable gpu in the bios). And man oh man...Fedora with wayland on my nvidia laptop is perfection for both gaming and programming. Although it took some time to get comfortable with gnome, and a lot of research on finding extensions.
In my search for tiling extensions I fell in love with popOS through their pop-shell extension, and I think system76 and their cosmic desktop is the best one out there...so I switched over to popOS for a little while, wanting to try out the pop-launcher and their cosmic de in its full glory, and popOS is my personal favorite.
I have gone back to fedora though. Because I thought theoretically it makes more sense. On fedora, I get to enjoy newer packages, a newer kernel and a stable Wayland experience with nvidia. I have added the pop-shell and dash to dock for cosmic extensions.
Essentially my dream distro, is fedora with popOS de. When popOS are finished developing their new cosmic de based on rust presumably in 2023, I just have to check it out.
As a CS-student currently only in possession of one laptop, I'm mostly concerned with having a stable distro, so I think popOS and fedora will be my companions for many years to come!
If you know your games run on good-known distros nothing stopping you. I would get a small server up and running and do some configuration and play around with the meat and potatoes of the OS, it's super fun and those same tools you use will come and handy for literally everything else. command line can be daunting especially if you're not used to typing for certain tasks, but some things are just cleaner and more efficient in command line
Annoying: Sharing NTFS drive for Steam-Linux Game Library is a bad idea.
Steam on Linux wants his gaming library in a linux file system (like ext4) and not NTFS. even if you install a windows game using proton. There is a workaround with symlinking small partial stuff from NTFS to ext4 drive but it's another possible cause for game won't run error ...
Some games may still run from NTFS out of box.
I heard if you wanna share a partition with win and linux BTRFS would be an option. But maybe then the trouble with file system attribute incompatibility goes to the windows side ?!
This series convinced me to try and use linux with a windows vm. Those videos were for me a bit like a advertisement, even though they were pointing out the problems. Would like to see more videos about Linux, they are enjoying to watch
Followed the same plan. I still regret nothing.
Linux performed horribly in the videos
@@christophegroulx8187 no, Linus performed horribly
I’m curious what type of Linux did you do? I had been using a linux vm on windows and this series got me to dual boot first with pop os and more recently kubuntu
@@drowningin Not really, if the OS itself prompts you with a message to uninstall itself you know that the devs screwed up
I daily drive Linux, and I do game on it, but gaming is definitely at the bottom of the list of reasons that I run Linux
I run Linux on my laptop that I use for university and software development and love it, but the reason I've not put it on my desktop yet is because it will make gaming harder. Tempted to do some VFIO magic to make it work.
@@caleballen1330 Double boot?
@@caleballen1330 If gaming was a high priority for me Id probably do the same, but fortunately I have had good luck with proton and GE releases of proton and don't play multiplayer or competitive games much so dont get stung by the anti-cheat systems. VFIO GPU pass through works very well and I have used it in the past, but its not a magic bullet, there is a non-trivial amount of overhead that can hurt performance so if a title is already straining to run on your HW, KVM with VFIO GPU passthrough may not be the experience you expect.
Yup. I've used Linux exclusively for around 15 years now. I play a lot of games on steam (maybe 10% of my desktop time), but I play games that list working with Linux / Steam OS exclusively... and I never have trouble.
That's the difference, I'm not (trying) to play random windows-only games because everyone else is. I'm playing games that are available for Linux natively. I don't spend any time troubleshooting, because I honestly don't care about Dirt 4 or Fortnite.
I play shit to relax, I don't play shit to be a elite 360 no-scope gamer. TF2, CrossCode, Two Point Hospital, Cities Skylines, Don't Starve, Oxygen Not Included, Brutal Legend, BioShock Infinite, Hotline Miami, FTL. At 219 Linux games in my Steam account, who cares?
@@Steellmor Sounds like windows with extra steps.
I appreciate the honest approach they took here. Everyone knew that there was going to be a portion of the Linux community that was going to flip the F out regardless of the outcome and calling them windows or console shills, but this has pretty much been my recent experience as well, although I admit that Proton seems to be in better shape now than it was last year. I will admit that it's literally ten times better today than when I tried to make the same transition ten years ago.
I tried in 2006 with ATi graphics and boy did it not go well. At the time IIRC the situation was opposite, nVidia was OK, ATi almost unusable. However I plugged along, eventually landed on a working setup and kept using it for quite a while. Little native gaming then, but the Desktop Environments were WILD, way better than Win\Mac. Compiz\Beryl was the shit, ran way better than Vista's boring desktop compositing and you could make it do very stupid stuff very easily.
Honestly that portion of the Linux community in my experience doesn’t contribute much anyway lol. I’m quite happy with the fact that they gave it a for real fair shot.
Same here, I went out of my way to try and get my G15 advantage to work. I installed Fedora, used the Asus Linux guide to get it set up, learned how to fix the black screen issues and even through all of this and learning terminal commands...the random and unfixable hard crashes make Linux a hard sell on a 1500 dollar laptop I bought to have to constantly hard reset my computer because I decided to change the refresh rate. I want Linux to win, I hope they release the Steam Deck Arch Distro so people can get a wiki and guides for fixes going, we need more options in the PC space but I'm not risking expensive hardware to get there. Sorry Linux bros
@Jorge Laughingman so, I absolutely understand where you are coming from, but I also know for a fact that those in the Linux community are really going to struggle to look at this from the angle of a non-Linux user. It's not even bias, your Linux fundamentals prohibit you from experiencing the frustration of not knowing where everything is, or how much not knowing what your doing limits your ability to troubleshoot.
Linus in particular followed a variation of one of the more popular published "get into gaming on Linux" paths. I knew it was going to be a dumpster fire because I had followed a similar one recently, with even worse results, and I'm considerably more Linux savvy and experienced than Linus is.
Could the results here have been better? Yes, especially with what they should have learned along the way, but unless someone getting into Linux gaming is already pretty Linux savvy, this is pretty much what I'd expect for results, or worse actually.
@Jorge Laughingman Also, I never said that the community shouldn't have issues with it, I just simply predicted it. I get annoyed when watching people with little experience trying to setup storage appliances, RAID arrays, NAS appliances, especially as they follow guides published that are guaranteed to run you into walls if you lack certain fundamentals, LTT has done this to me plenty of times, but I have to remind myself that these guys aren't really experienced with enterprise storage architecture, they're enthusiasts that like to tinker, and their broad experience coupled with just below the surface depth knowledge in a lot of areas makes them knowledgeable enough to hack (I know, sounds mean) through it, but someone else following their lead will be even more dangerous.
The fact you took the challenge proves how far GNU/Linux have gone. Your attention, and even the challenge "failure" contribute to the Free and Open Source Software beneficiaries and causes in a priceless and significant way. I expect in the future all FOSS will share the success of Blender. Being a cutting edge and top quality product of a global thinktank serving an amazing purpose. We might see a kind of revolution, that comes to being through evolution with cubic parabola curve.
Yep, 15 years ago this sort of attention from a mainstream PC gamer would have been unheard of.
@@MrHarumakiSensei agree. I "paused" my Linux journey for a few years (after I got TES V running on release date on Gentoo LOL) b/c I was fine with Win10 for my needs. And now I took a look back to Linux and how things are going and I stumbled over Anthony's LInux vids and this challenge LOL Sometimes things are going pretty fast LOL
You should revisit this challenge soon (or just wait until SteamOS releases) to see how far it's come because of the Steam Deck and Valve's work on Proton.
Please keep up the series with other activities other than gaming. The attention that you guys brought to some issues made a lot of developers aware of the problems and they got fixed. Kudos to KDE team here.
no.. only gaming matters
@@SpanishArmadaProd apparently most of people want to use linux wants linux to be a good experience in every category. And most of the time all categories can be minimized and generalized into 3 categories. Internet, office work, and relaxing (gaming most of the time).
1. Internet : hell, almost all website uses linux nowadays. So it passes
2. Office work : can be separated into 2 i think, engineering and management work. If you're developer then linux is a great thing. I'm not sure about civil engineering and such. I heard linux doesn't support certain tools to build certain things. And then management works, such as word, sheet, and presentation kind of thing... That I'm not sure... Doesn't fully supported yet, but it's getting there
3. Relaxing : gaming... You get the idea from this video
(Bonus) editing : now this is a problem too i think (kinda). It's because linux doesn't have native image and video editing support, so .. maybe no. But i heard there is a web based app like photopea etc, i don't know, not sure
So there you go
@@thoriqadillah7780 it has top tier native video editing with Davinci. Image, not so much.
@@thoriqadillah7780 "I'm not sure about civil engineering and such. I heard linux doesn't support certain tools to build certain things."
You would be correct. You'll also find "dependency hell" occurring far more often on Linux systems used for scientific endeavors. It seemed like it was at least once a month that this would happen running Scientific Linux and other distros with a lot of scientifically and mathematically oriented software and libraries installed. Imagine a whole lab shut down while you have to take the time to figure and sort it all out!
It got so bad at one point that updating had to be shut off on all machines and then only one system would be down. Once it was sorted out, then you could install the updates on the rest of the machines. But then that led to the precarious situation where cracking hackers could find a vulnerability and exploit it! Had that happen once, too.
Somebody in Nova Scotia got control of one of our servers in part because an update could not be applied in a timely manner without causing other serious problems until a workaround could be developed for the "dependency hell" that inevitably would result from the installation of particular updates. Gained access through an unpatched vulnerability in a mail service using SSH! (Many of those banking data breaches that have occurred over recent years were on Linux servers, by the way. True story. No, really! Sad but true!)
@@thoriqadillah7780 1. Yeah Linux has great browser support. Mozilla's FireFox actually works on Linux without any issues whatsoever, unlike on Windows ironically. Chrome/Chromium also has great support. Really almost every major browser works almost flawlessly.
2a. Engineering is a limitation. Mainly because older firmware and drivers were originally designed for Windows and it would cost too much money, time and resources to create compatibility on Linux even though it's entirely possible. This is especially the case with bigger programs where there's just way too much to port over.
2b. I don't want to expand on this too much as it would be multiple paragraphs long, however development on Linux is both a godsend and a curse. For one, Linux is usually built to be compatible so if you develop for Linux and port to Windows, you won't have as many issues as if you tried the other way around. On the opposing end, Windows offers a lot of low-level internal functionality through its Windows and Windows NT APIs making it easier and less hacky to achieve certain simplistic things such as simply checking memory usage. Since Windows has the highest market share, you can get away with just developing for Windows; but Windows is also rabbit hole and once you go too far down that path, you will notice you can't really dig yourself out of it. Lastly, developing cross-platform anyway will oftentimes lead to needing to separate dependencies, header files, and creating your own personal wrapper libraries just to separate the Windows dependencies from the Linux dependencies without wasting even more time programming a clusterfuck twice for each system. Not to even mention transferring the code and cross compiling on Linux + using the Linux debugger (GDB) which very few people are actually familiar with, though Visual Studio has actually already added features to make this easier. These are probably the primary reasons why Linux support hasn't evolved like it can. WINE is like ibuprofen for an anyeurism. It won't solve this fatal issue, but it'll make it hurt less. The real solution to this problem is already kind of in the works in the form of community or third party wrapper libraries such as GLFW and SDL2 (just to name a couple off the top of my head), but changing dependencies would still be a major headache if the groundwork was already laid, and we don't have wrappers for everything we need to make cross-platform seamless yet.
2c. LibreOffice, OpenOffice, and a few other more obscure programs exist for text documentation, presentation, and spreadsheets (and more). Microsoft hasn't added Office365 compatibility for Linux (while they have it for Mac anyway) but you can still achieve most of the same stuff with their free online versions, or by simply using the Google Suite. As for video editing, if you aren't using KDE Live or BlackMagic Resolve, go use Windows. Windows also has a lot of licensed codecs you can't use on Linux.
3. Gaming is touchy. On some systems it works and on some it doesn't. Linux Mint is all around the most compatible in my eyes because Cinnamon isn't really too much of a clusterfuck like KDE and Gnome are, but I digress. The biggest issues with it are not having the correct system configuration, having all the drivers completely up-to-date (which is oftentimes actually limited by the distro itself to ensure compatibility), and the developers simply going too deep into the Windows API and the Windows kernel functions that WINE/Proton simply cannot run it. This is especially the case with DirectX games which is a proprietary graphics API developed by Microsoft that is unavailable to Linux or Mac. Also, unlike what Linus said, I run the latest NVIDIA drivers on Linux Mint and CS:GO runs a thousand times smoother on it (on a 240 Hz monitor nonetheless) than it does on Windows. It's so smooth and fast, in fact, it's actually kind of hard adjusting from Windows to Linux CS:GO. Crazy. This is because CS:GO runs on Vulkan which is a more efficient adoption of OpenGL (both from Khronos) which is entirely cross-platform, but regardless, on Windows it still just uses DX9.
4. (Featured mention) Xorg and PulseAudio are underdeveloped clusterfucks. They're good for what they are and how much time they've had to grow, but they're still not comparable to Windows' systems. That being said, what's weird is that Linux doesn't have these built into the kernel, yet they have the AMD graphics drivers built in... Yeah, I don't fully know either.
Edit: I mainly typed this up to clear the air about the situation with Linux having used it dual-boot as my daily driver for about 5 years straight now. I only use Windows for gaming... unless it's CS:GO.
The progress made so far is honestly pretty amazing, although for the present day everything said in the video is spot on. I've used Linux off and on for over 15 years, and had pretty much written off gaming on it. After I got a job and could afford "real" games I had a stretch of many years on Windows exclusively, but tried Linux again (Popos) after the Steam Deck announcement. All the games I looked forward to this year - Tales of Arise, Disco Elysium, Phoenix Wright and Ys IX - worked. Other than Ys IX, they all ran flawlessly out of the box, and Ys is still playable. I could never have imagined this 10 years ago. It might still take 5 or 10 more years for mass market acceptability, but there is hope.
Ys IX is working flawlessly on my Linux system. What issues did you encounter?
yeah if you're not a normie games wise it's fine. if you play shit like cod chances are you'll have issues but if you play jrpgs and weeb games you're generally fine
I play CoD, Apex Legends, Paradox and Total War games almost exclusively. Linux sucks now for gaming, maybe it will improve in the future.
@@EmergencyChannel it really doesn't suck. However I don't play identikit Multi player death match sequels as I find them boring AF. Those are the ones infested with A/C that's what stops the games from running. The Rainbow Six game client actually works until the A/C kicks the player for example. So at a technical level the games work. Both major A/C providers support Linux and Proton, but many game Devs don't 🤷🤦. I enjoy some MMOs the one I play works so eh and all the single player games I love work.
Everything they said was far from spot on....the perception that its something bad that the linux users 0.1% and was 20% of the support tickets and that is bad is just bad logics...if those support tickets are os independant that is an extremely good reason to develop for linux cause that will make the game just better even for windows....
I have had CrossCode in my wishlist for so long and finally bought it after being reminded of its existence thanks to this video.
I haven't finished it yet but it is sooo good I wish I bought it sooner. Instant favorite.
One year later Steam deck has launched and has been a huge success. And linux gaming has come a long way as a result.
Not only that, it now works about as good as Windows 11, I am using now Pop OS (Linux) 2 years, and every game I have tried works, and most games work great without doing anything then selecting Proton to start the game.
And you do not get the spyware OS called Windows 11 or BingAI that also sees everything you do, no I was very happy not using Windows anymore, Linux works fantastic.
How stable is it now? Still struggling with anti cheat and launchers?
Genuinely curious. I'm on windows and made a virtual machine of mint to see what it was like and now I'm curious how it handles things, which is why I'm here
@@asuganoir6951easy anti cheat is supported with gproton. I only had issue with esync and fsysc not supported bug but these are just warnings.
@@asuganoir6951those are the kind of things that it will likely always have trouble with. Easy anticheat is one thing, something like denuvo on the other hand? Yeah, I'd be surprised if that ever runs.
@@asuganoir6951 We now have support for some anti-cheat like EAC, but companies still have to allow games to run on Linux, which some people say that it is easy to implement but many companies decided not to do it for some games, like Black Desert Online. Said that, I'm gaming on linux this year and it works well for a lot of games, I just installed steam, activated the compatibility inside it and it's done, no command line use needed. As I'm using an AMD gpu I didn't even have to install any driver on it, and played The Witcher 3, Final Fantasy 14, Warframe and many other games without any kind of problem, I don't even have a Windows machine anymore, as BDO is the only game that I miss and I wasn't willing to pay for a Windows licence just for that, but yeah, it will depend on the games that you want to play, protondb is a good place to start looking before you decide to switch or dual boot with it, at least for gamming.
I've been a Linux user for 3 years. This challenge went about as I expected (barring Linus uninstalling his DE, I didn't see that one coming). I think the community has a habit of overselling the gaming aspect. Likely due to how far it has actually come from what it used to be, but it just isn't *there* yet. Hopefully progress keeps being made, but until some big changes happen (if they happen) Luke and I are in the same boat. Laptop is Linux and gaming machine is Windows.
I guess a problem is that comparing Linux to itself in this category paints this picture of an amazing evolution, while comparing it to Windows is kinda disappointing.
Obviously the enthusiasts want to focus on the positives. Which has probably made some observers get an inaccurate image. I know for a fact this series changed my perspective.
I honestly think Linux would be better if all versions of Linux would have the same if not better battery life compared to Windows.
@@Eugene-pq3gg its like in any job. you have some blindless after some time and it need an outsider to point problems out. That happened with this video series
Luke's laptop isn't any linux more it got corrupted for some reason so he installed windows so he can continue his work, he talked about it weeks ago in some wan show
P.S: My details could be fuzzy because it's been a while
Linus dropping his desktop? You should have expected that to happen. He drops everything lol.
I've been daily driving Linux and using it for gaming, and I must admit, it isn't for everyone. Most of the multiplayer games I play such as FFXIV, CIV VI, and TF2 work fine on Linux, but I also have a years of Linux experience, and I've even compiled my own kernel. The average Final Fantasy 14 player doesn't have the technical know-how to set up the game with little effort, and they probably won't want to learn how Linux works. I on the other hand, just installed the game on Ubuntu using Lutris and had no issues at all. We in the Linux community pride ourselves on making great software, but we need to work at making Linux more accessible for less technical users.
Many Linux devs want Linux to remain a dev only platform. It's not by accident to overcomplicate things that can be done easily otherwise. Heck, I caught myself sometimes writing scripts on a way it's easy enough for me or simply giving more customizability rather than making them easy to use. That was addressed also by Linus Torvalds when he said Linux desktop will move forward only after a big company take good care of it like Google with Android did. I believe we can expect good things to come after Valve finding potential on improving Linux.
@@perseusarkouda The worst software i ever crossed on Linux was the instant messenger Licq about 22 years ago. If you wrote a message and pressed the sent button, this piece of sh## software checked the clipboard for urls and if it found an url in the clipboard it *automatically* added it to the message without asking the user to do so.
even if you make it work, it isn't the most efficienct thing to do in terms of energy consumption.
@@howardlam6181 neither is scrolling youtube, but here you are xD
It’s not about being “less technical”. It’s all about practicality. Just because you are confident with the programming doesn’t mean it’s something you want to do everyday.
During my ideological teenage years I only ever use Linux at home I even brought in my own boot drive to school to do assignments. That being said I'm pretty sure I'm scarred for life when it comes to updates like the inconveniences are smaller on my phone but all I can remember is I finally got Morrowind running and then it just doesn't work two days later because I updated
Yeah that stuff also annoy me in my exp. Doing the update can broke your apps :(
I rem had to do app's update via the terminal after upgraded Ubuntu... I can do it of course without problem, but for normal user, that just so difficult.
Thank you Linus! This challenge encouraged me to switch to Linux(Ubuntu). I am happy I did! I am sure other people did this, too. All of the issues you mentioned are 100% true. The more eyes on Linux the better! Hopefully, you will try this again next year or so and see if it gets any better! Thanks for giving this a go!
Sure you did bud
Well gaming on linux is a bit of a hit or miss but not for all the games, and tbh untill a lot more people start daily driving linux machines I think gaming is still going to be hit or miss.
I used Ubuntu for a while but i'm liking ZorinOS now, it's super clean & is a Ubuntu fork.
Ubuntu is bad and you should feel bad for using it (arch btw)
@@thepanable5004 it's not your mom is bad
I've been gaming on Linux for 5+ years now, and I can relate to most everything you've said in this series. Well done.
in other words you've been trying to play on Linux for 5+ years XD
@@Guardian_Arias 90% make the game work, 10% play the game.
Would there be any way to get game pass for pc working or not?
@@Guardian_Arias nah, 98% of singleplayer games run fine
Honestly, this issue is THE only thing that keeps me from daily driving Linux. I want out of the Microsoft ecosystem entirely and would rather not manually re-lobotomize my OS after every update.
I switched my gaming pc to dual-booting. While I primarily game on Linux, when things don't work I have Windows to just boot into. Linux gaming has indeed come a long way, but there are still many issues to work out.
I think dual boot is always the best way. You literally get the best of both worlds. Linux for development and office stuff and windows for gaming
Same with me. Switched to doal-boot two(?) years ago and would never go back. I use Linux for almost everything and Windows for Games and Software that won't run on Linux. Less "Bloatware OS 10" usage for me and in the and still all the functionality. And who knows how things will be in five or 10 years...
@@leonmoto1931 windows have a WSL subsystem, why to bother with dual-boot and all nonsense of different architectures?
@@s.i.m.c.a because you would run Windows all the time
@@android-user So?
Seeing the Linux challenge a year later does give me hope for the future. There are still a ton of kinks that need to be ironed out, but things look more hopeful with each passing day~~~
This makes me want to turn the clock back and daily drive Linux on the side, maybe on a laptop that I can take around for single player gaming and work.
The sound design on this video was unreal. Keep it up!
This is such a massive undertaking for the Linux community. Years in the making to get to this point. I appreciate what the community has contributed over the years. Thanks Linus and Luke for doing this in-depth study on the state of Linux gaming and thanks to the Linux community!
^ this
The Linux community works so freaking hard.
Very few get paid to build Linux. I have used Ubuntu Server for years (it's rock solid stable) and have occasionally ventured into workstation distros but I have never felt like the workstations were stable enough to be my main developer workstation and have always had to go back to running it as a VM rather than bare metal whenever I want to do a personal project. As a developer seeing Linus, a tech guru, fumble with Linux is at least validation to me that I was not the only one struggling with something that I have wanted to adopt for years.
That being said I appreciate all the hard work Linux is doing. Especially on server y'all are quite literally running the internet right now.
@@ShawnLoftinplus Odd. *nix desktop distros are quite stable. Gaming and setup can be challenging but if you set up a server you should have no big issues with a desktop distro.
It is a colossal waste of effort. No Linux developer should be investing any time into getting closed source software written for another platform running on Linux.
@@1pcfred no linux user should tell others what they should be using linux for.
@@sooprdargon3452 listen to GNU developers then. Because without them Linux wouldn't even exist. Without a compiler Linus Torvalds would not have gotten very far at all.
I have a feeling the Steam Deck will partially address the fragmentation problem and provide a stable target for developers to test on. A known quantity, like a console. It will then be a matter of the various other distros copying their config or making their systems compatible with those features. Maybe Valve can make a benchmark to test that compatibility, and so you have a common focus for both distro developers/maintainers and the game studios, much like OpenGL or Vulkan are single well defined standards but have many implementations.
Steam already comes with a standardized runtime…
Making it easier isn't enough, if I was a publisher I'd want Valve to pay to add Steam Deck support, as Steam Deck doesn't appear to expand the market (it'll mainly be existing customers playing on another device rather than new customers).
@@Oscar_Myk a bit of a mistake on part of Valve not marketing Deck to console crowd
Sadly steamdeck uses amd gpu, so more then half of gamers will be screwed anyway, amd is getting more popular but nvidia is still the most widely used.
@@Psychx_ And seems to be looking towards making Flatpak their primary package, judging from the amount of attention to the Steam Flatpak from Collabora. (Valve pays Collabora for a lot of development work)
great video! thanks for covering this topic!
this video series is gold for linux gaming. tons and tons of good productive criticisms while also shining light for a potential alternative for gaming.
ive been sticking with win7 for the longest time because win10 comes with a slur of problems, being it technical or social (spyware), forced updates etc.
only after my new recent pc build i switched to win10 in order to play modern games.
i do have linux mint on my laptop, i set up another mint system on my parents pc and it works great for causal applications.
i am looking forward for the future of linux gaming. maybe someday we will have a almost out of the box experience like it is rn for the "casual" linux desktop user.
I have a Fedora Linux laptop and a Windows 10 gaming desktop for game streaming. This way I have my privacy from Microsoft.
Watching gaming in linux, what I can say is:
Luke is still a great host in front of the camera. Hope to see him more in videos.
Wdym? He has been hosting the WAN show every week for the past many years
@@sinuslebastian6366 yup! I know. What I meant was this kind of videos. Not a podcast type kind of video.
Probably not gonna happen.
we need more luke. I would trade Linus for more anthoy and luke.
@@bryku or trade floatplane instead, the project who made him busy
I've loved this video series and it has me thinking of installing Linux on an older machine just to see how I like it. Thanks guys!
Do it.
Just install it! If it doesn't fit you go back. But I really don't think that it won't fit somebody if he chooses the right distro, I use Arch btw but for a beginner I really recommend Mint or PopOS which I both dualbooted on two of my friends machines and they're both very happy with it
@@FilooWoj *2GB of RAM smoothly running Minecraft and a browser at once go brr*
*DO IT*
@@benedani9580 distro?
This is why I'm glad Dualbooting is a thing. And with SSDs, it's not like it takes that long to reboot.
I hate having to save and close everything though.
losing the current web browsing session makes me not do that
Virtual machines are the way to go. Removes the hassle of booting
@@Johnny76624 I would definitely agree, that's what I do for most of the easy to run productivity stuff I need from linux while running windows. But in Linux, non-quadro Nvidia cards do NOT like being passed through to virtual machines. AMD cards, though, do work fine in this scenario.
@@TheAmazingPaulrus Oh? Maybe I should try VMs again then. I just upgraded to an AMD Ryzen 9 cpu and a 6800. Do you know if there are any good detailed guides on how to do this? I've tried a few times in the past, but it was always confusing or I would take too heavy of a performance hit. I tend to push my hardware pretty hard before having a virtualization layer generally.
My dad is a pretty tech savvy guy, and when I was a kid I had a windows 7 laptop that eventually slowed down to a crawl as the hard drive failed.
My dad updated the laptop to Linux which made the laptop usable again but there was one small issue. You just couldn't play games.
My favourite game at the time was terraria, and I spent about a week figuring out what the hell wine was and trying to get it working.
Eventually I did it, only for it to not work the next day due to the game updating which was soul crushing.
Nowadays its amazing that I can even run games on Linux, I never thought I would see the day, but I will forever have a duel boot system for this reason. Windows for gaming, and Linux for Work (which is pretty painless to be honest).
Maybe one day we will have full compatibility and Linux will be the new industry standard, but until then ill stick to this.
The idea of Luke joining Linus and his kid for a gaming session is adorable.
Well Luke lived with Linus and Yvonne for quite some time so he's definitely 'Uncle Luke'.
He might have the nickname 'Big Bird'... ;)
I thought the same. It does just warm me up a little as stupid as it sounds
I would really like to see a bonus episode with Anthony and other linux enthusiasts showing what they know and maybe even showing how they would have tackled each issue
This series spawn many reaction and investigation videos. Keyword - LTT Linux
not really - Linus' summary is accurate - a whole lot of ppl aren't interested, open steam > click install > click play - that is the level of effort expected....
then as also stated, if someone is interested in putting in effort-11 to figure it all out - off you go, glhf
@@NicholasOrr highly agree with that. I consider myself above average but if i only use my home PC for games I don't want to waste time troubleshooting or missing out from friends. Steam really made Windows gaming not that different from console (gamepad compatibility is another topic). Install > play. That's it. (If you have low end hardware than maybe tinkering with settings is needed but for me, even on rx580 I'm ok with high preset on newer games)
@@NicholasOrr I am one of these low effort people, so I can confirm. I literally only want three four clicks to do my things.
They can criticize me for being lazy as much as they want, but that isn't gonna change the facts that it just isn't for me.
I think bringing Anthony in to build and install a Linux gaming rig is the way forward here
as a programmer, I need Linux. I customize how it works, write my own scripts to automate workflow, and it's so much easier and safer to install packages that a software developer would need.
But for most people, using Linux is a terrible idea, just don't use it unless you know what you're doing or that you need it/prefer it. Just using Linux for the sake of using Linux isn't going to help you in anything.
I'm definitely a general user. I've used Windows for most of my life, but when Windows 7 support stopped I tried out Linux Mint on my laptop, and while it was a learning experience, I really enjoyed learning how to make it work. It made using Steam OS3 a breeze when I got my Steam Deck. I just built my first gaming rig and I did go with Windows. Thankfully building the PC was fun so I plan to build another one, and I'll definitely be running Linux on it.
This is the gold standard for tech journalism going forward IMO. Actually dog fooding something for a significant amount of time and reporting the consequences in an even-handed way. As a Linux user for ~30 years I think everything was very fair.
Valheim uses the Unity Engine, so props goes to Unity for the stellar Linux support with games made on it's platform. For most projects all you have to do is change the export target and it generally just works. Issues mainly tend to come up if you happen to be using some third-party libraries that don't support Linux or are directly calling native Windows APIs.
I think this is one of the huge complaints we have in the Linux community.... that honestly making your code cross platform is pretty trivial these days. We're not in the 1990s anymore where supporting more than one platform meant maintaining multiple code bases. On the other hand, we've got developers acting as if this WAS still the case and people just accept it as being the way things are.
@@corwinweber693 They addressed it in the video. Companies want to make money. The time invested in Linux usualy does not give you any profit COMPARED TO WINDOWS.
So most of em say fuck it.
If they are making a game for instance with Unity or Unreal Engine sure, they could easily package their games for Linux. But a lot still have their inhouse built engine wich requires a lot of work to make a game shipable for Linux.
Unity buggy and proprietary, I won't say it's "stellar" honestly "-w-
I remember buying NASB on release just for it to not even open because of some weird file bug I had no power of fixing.
@@T0b1maru agreed. also most devs/publishers these days rely on some sort of DRM - which is costly to develop for Linux (and much less effective). even if it is a single click to enable cross-compatibility, some companies will deliberately avoid that click to limit piracy. I don't personally see this as a convincing argument, but from the vantage of risk-adverse corporate conglomerates, it's easier to understand.
@@T0b1maru That was true ten years ago. It isn't now. Cross platform code has come a long way. It's pretty much trivial now, and using it makes them money. It gets them sales they wouldn't otherwise have.
The primary reason they don't is because of misconceptions like yours.
Thank you for addressing the "I only have an hour in a busy life" community. I spent two hours on hold dealing with utility companies this morning before working and doing laundry. I don't know where people get the time. Back to kicking a ball around. So much cheaper.
Only reason why I switched to Linux was because I was in high school and there was quarantine. No way to upgrade my hardware but plenty of time to mess with my computer.
Yeah. I have more free time than most due to living alone and working from home, but I don't want to spend the time I *do* have figuring out how to get a game I want to play run. Linus is totally right when he says that experience can actually suck the fun out of playing the game when you finally get it working.
@@d2factotum This right here. Not everyone wants to have to debug their game just so they can play with their friends… Not in the gaming realm but Apple has the market is does for almost that reason entirely, easy to use, it just works, which means less headaches for the consumer.
@@Frisbefan1 I feel like this is where the console argument comes in, the next gen consoles are the cheapest and most plug and play friendly. But I get your point pc should b just as simple
@Jorge Laughingman "learning new things always is"
If the goal is to learn, there's so many better things to learn than 'how to make this game work on Linux instead of just playing this game on a platform where it works flawlessly already".
Gaming on Linux is a tough subject. On the one hand a lot of people WANT gaming on Linux and there has been a lot of commercial and community support for this from the likes of Valve. This has led to Linux being the second best gaming OS, surpassing MacOS. What is interesting, is that people will happily point out that Linux is unusable because you can't game on it, where the same arguments are not made about MacOS. This is because MacOS is a curated experience without a focus on gaming, where Linux is (fundamentally) NOT a curated experience. Linux is capable of anything because it does not actively stop you from pursuing it yourself, but as software gets more complex, the required work does to. As such, the degree to which anything is supported is dictated by the interest and support of the community (or, more often, enterprise and corporate needs). To this end, Linux is in a tough position where the only solution is to create commercial incentive to streamline the home user experience (such as Valve's Steamdeck), which in many circumstances will bring criticism from Linux's core community.
Going back to watch older Linux Tech Tips videos is always a treat
9:43 im foodlfg, the guy from that Supreme Commander FAF Linux Support thread.
I had been involved with the Linux support of the game/FAF for years (because i wanted to play it on Linux).
Long story short, after 8 years of Linux and many years of FAF on Linux, i have switched to Windows (not just because of FAF tho). Im not proud of this but indeed it took a LOT of time to make things work. Sometimes things went surprisingly smoothly, but sometimes we had been figuring out a stupid little problem that prevented the game to launch for days, trying out different methods etc... The environment, versions were constantly changing around us and that usually caused problems.
As for the link is not working, i dont know what happened. the FAF Wiki system has changed, it looks like. I cannot find the Linux Support page either. It had like 5 simple commands to make the FAF client and the game work on (Ubuntu)Linux. but ofc that may be a little outdated as well by now anyways.
Anyways, we are keeping our eyes on you, Linus! Be a good boi!
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Don't forget he's using Mandjaro and not Ubuntu, so the steps may (must) vary.
I'm not even sure it's possible on Mandjaro.
maybe I'll try to run in tomorrow, hopefully I'll be successful 🤞
@@ZeBigLOL i was talking with people on discord and there is an uptodate guide in the wiki. i have updated my forum post about it in the Linux Support thread.
As a daily driver of Linux, could not agree more with this conclusion. Well done guys. Have not played a new game for years, I wait and wait till I can play sometimes months until it works (sometimes never). That has meant my gaming has changed a bit, I play a lot of older games these days.
If you can, I’d recommend getting a console, you can find a ps4 / Xbox one for really cheap these days and you should be good when it comes to gaming.
I’ve had a gaming pc running windows since 2018, got my ps4 in 2015, I’ve never ever had an issue with my ps4, but I have a pretty bumpy experience when I game on my pc
Try Windows+ WSL2 ? Unless you need software that uses USB on linux, cause WSL doesn't support USB
I play whats working on linux and everything else on console for over 3 years now without any regrets. Also because newly released games are bugged and overpriced I stopped pre-ordering and buying games at a release as it is just waste of money and time. After a year from launch I can get patched game free of any issues that gives me a lot more of fun rather than frustrations and it is for over a half of the original price (and many times it is also working on linux at that point).
@@shivanggangadia1864 that is what I use. I can even run Linux docker natively in windows. It is pretty impressive.
I would love to ditch windows. It’s constant telemetry, and insistence in creating a windows account is really pissing me off. However, I don’t, because of this video pretty much. Maybe steam os will get there.
just dual boot
Good series. As I said in your 1st video in this series, I've been running Linux as my daily driver for going on 10 years, and I'm really happy to see what Steam has done for the Linux Gaming community. I think modern game engines make it pretty easy to support mulitplatform out of the box, but I also get not wanting to attempt to support Linux when only 1% or less of your revenue stream comes from that market. That said, I only buy steam games that are Steam + Linux compatible. I'm a casual gamer and I want to support those studios that are supporting Linux.
This was great. I have never done much of anything in linux except for the most basic of shell commands needed to get some work stuff going a decade ago. Nice to see where things are from a non linux grodnard perspective.
"I've permanently switched my laptop over to Linux..."
Having watched The WAN Show, we know how long that lasted. Hopefully the things causing that will be fixed soon. I'm certainly hoping Linux gaming will continue to improve, because looking at Win11? Fuck that.
Why the hate for windows 11?
Yeah I really hope that Luke is dual-booting now on his work laptop.
@@freevbucks8019 win11 collects even more data than win10
ive yet to encounter any win11 issues gaming..wish linux just worked as it uses vastly fewer resources
Uh… I might be wrong here but I haven’t encounter a bug or glitch in Windows 11, also I don’t care about Privacy anymore because there’s other ways for big corporations to get our data anyways.
And we have reached the end. Thanks for this series it has been exciting to see its effect in the Linux community. I have been using linux over 10 years and I am so amazed at the progress that has been made in gaming by the Wine devs,Valve, and Linux community. Without developer support. Imagine how much better things will get when Proton is targeted as a platform (ie Steam Deck).
I'm not sure this is the very end, i believe they intended to have an extra part with Anthony, Wendel and linux youtuber guests talking about this challenge.
You assume steamdeck is going to hit numbers high enough for devs to want to target it.
Question: is programming a multiplatform game that hard? Can devs simply use Vulkan and multiplatform libraries and call it a day (with testing at the end, of course)? That's what QT makes it seem like for desktop applications
@@srpenguinbr driver differences, anti cheat and more specific incompatibilities (i.e. networking or voice stack) + engine support and build issues usually present incompatibility, along with the multitude of different ways linux can be built on display-stack and desktop wise, there's not a clear cut way for bigger (especially made by smaller devs) games to support it feasibly.
@@MJ-mi9jf can game engines abstract that in the same way QT abstracts some stuff?
an update on this challenge is badly needed. I already ditched Windows 😂
Honestly, welcome! Slightly experienced full time linuxer here (arch btw) and getting away from M$ and having full control over my system is such a great experience. Best wishes to your system!
It great to see how far Linux gaming has come even in just just short time. I’m having a great time with it on my Steam Deck and even tinkered around a bit and I’m not the most tech savvy person. The community has just made it so easy.
As a Linux user for more than 20 years, I love this review! I agree with everything y'all said, and this is a very accurate and realistic look at the state of gaming on Linux. Thanks for the video!
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Are you from Texas? No did not think so. So why say "y'all"? F ing stop using that term and speak properly.
As do I - and I have run Linux since 1996 :P
@@indivestor what if he is from Texas and you just assumed
@@indivestor cause there's no other single word that means the same thing?
Linus' comments on 'just wanting to play games for an hour' really sums up the entire Linux experience for many people.
I love to tinkering, I love problem solving and learning new platforms.... *when I'm in the mood to* but when I want to game, I want to do just that.
I don't want to spend that precious couple of hours in a frustrating battle with my computer, just to get it to do the thing I want.
Unless multiple big companies *really* get behind it, Linux will never be a gaming platform. And that's not going to happen unless it would make them serious money.
You mean like the Steam Deck?
I'm looking forward for the effect of Steam Deck, because it can make SteamOS a primary gaming Linux distro which game developers can target. It's not the best all around distribution for sure, but it has to start somewhere. Valve has the money and dedication to do this, but Steam Deck needs to be successful for this.
Lol that's totally right..
Which is why Steam Deck will be the best linux gaming platform, simply because you won't have to deal with Linux.
@@Mekuso8 and the Steam Machine before it?
The Steam Deck doesn't guarantee widespread Linux development, at all. I very much hope it does, but it will need to be a long term success just in order to start the transition.
Games at the end of their development cycle likely won't be ported, so we've got to hope that the Steam Deck is a roaring success for the next 2 to 3 years to even give Linux a *chance* of widespread adoption. And then it's likely only a single distro will be targeted, with the community once again having to dig deep to achieve more widespread compatibility.
Even then, there are plenty of companies who'll still lack the incentive; Ubisoft, EA etc
If you think the Steam Deck will be a silver bullet, then I'm afraid you may be disappointed.
@@GtsAntoni1 "Games at the end of their development cycle likely won't be ported"
Valve actually doesn't motivate devs to port their games, but to target Proton. They even incentivize devs to drop Linux ports in favor of Proton compatibility.
Thanks for this video. This answered a lot of my questions.
I've used Unix/Linux systems for over 30 years. I don't daily drive them any more, nor do I game, but its great to see how far the platform, and the community that maintains it, has come.
Love the editing, specially how Linus zoomed out into Luke's monitor.
@BlackWorm Doesn't their team use Adobe Premiere?
@@abc123s100 I think they do but AFAIK DaVinci Resolve is also on linux so maybe he tried to make a joke?
As a Linux pro who has been working with it for decades, I tend to take for granted how hard some things must be for newcomers. What takes me about 15-30 minutes to figure out, actually could be a multi-monthlong ongoing thread on a random forum for others. Hell, there's some technical workarounds for games that I've figured out on my own that I would eventually realize no one ever wrote a guide for. This video made me stop and think. I guess it really must be harder than what I think just because I've been doing it for so long. So, no disrespect towards newbz from me. Proud of anyone for the effort!
See that's what I'm saying! Linux takes a particular kind of resourcefulness. You gotta know how to get around the Arch and Gentoo wikis. I'm lucky I picked up Linux before I had real world responsibilities cuz I'd never be able to learn it nowadays.
Add to that the flavor of Linux you use can work dramatically different than one someone else is using.
I really like the linux content. I hope to see more in the future!
Great series, thank you!
This video perfectly summed up my experiences. I really, REALLY want to daily drive Linux on my gaming PC. However, more times than not, I end up troubleshooting something rather than playing. I found that to be extremely frustrating and what ultimately would push me back to Windows.
Same for me :C
You could dual boot and use Windows only for the games that don't work perfectly on Linux. It's what I do, while also being hopeful Steam and game developers will notice how many of us use Linux 🙂
@Jorge Laughingman 10:10 watch the damn video. They're not giving Linux a handicap because "oh yeah the user experience sucks but how can you expect anything better?" They're fairly assessing whether Linux is a good option for gamers today. The answer is no, it isn't yet.
@@SlimDeluxe I do the same and can confirm: A dual boot system is the best way to go when you want to daily-drive Linux while also gaming.
Buy a ps5 or grow up and your problem is solved
Personally, I enjoy running Linux as my daily driver, but I also understand the difficulty of incompatibility with certain games. Which is why I run a spare ssd with a windows install in my machine. If feasible, this is the setup I recommend to basically every gamer looking to daily drive Linux
Totally agree, I to have 2 ssds on my PC, one with Linux and other for windows 🪟
Can you go into detail ? Do you basically restart the PC then boot up windows or is it a seamless switch between Linux and windows? Are there any noticeable drawbacks on windows boot?
a 256gb ssd can be had for like 30 bucks so that is definitely the way to go
Yeah dual booting has it's own downsides, like having to actually restart your machine all the time if you want to game, which leads to the tempation of just straight up always booting to Windows in the first place.
Please explain how to switch between the operating systems.
You should revisit this it keeps getting better like a fine wine.
I've been contemplating running Linux for my day to day and using a VM with Windows for gaming. Not sure if I'll go for it yet, but it would be great to see some content on that.
Seeing CrossCode getting the recognition it deserves makes me so happy!
Only for fans over 18 years old LOVEME.UNO/PIIT
mañas no se la
Megan: "Hotter"
Hopi: "Sweeter"
Joonie: "Cooler"
Yoongi: "Butter
Asi con toy y sus mañas no se la lease que escriba bien mamon hay nomas pa ra reirse un rato y no estar triste y estresado.por la vida dura que se vive hoy .
Köz karaş: ''Taŋ kaldım''
Erinder: ''Sezimdüü''
Jılmayuu: ''Tattuuraak''
Dene: ''Muzdak''
Jizn, kak krasivaya melodiya, tolko pesni pereputalis.
Aç köz arstan
Bul ukmuştuuday ısık kün bolçu, jana arstan abdan açka bolgon.
Uyunan çıgıp, tigi jer-jerdi izdedi. Al kiçinekey koyondu gana taba algan. Al bir az oylonboy koyondu karmadı. ''Bul koyon menin kursagımdı toyguza albayt'' dep oylodu arstan.
Arstan koyondu öltüröyün dep jatkanda, bir kiyik tigi tarapka çurkadı. Arstan aç köz bolup kaldı. Kiçine koyondu emes, çoŋ kiyikti jegen jakşı dep oylodu.#垃圾
Son unos de los mejores conciertos , no puede ir pero de tan solo verlos desde pantalla, se que estuvo sorprendente
💗❤️💌💘💟
Linus loves CrossCode. He's mentioned it a few times on WAN Show - although that was almost a couple years ago.
Omg CrossCode is tooooooo good I still listen to the OST!
I just bought it on steam cause of this video, no joke. lol Looks very interesting ;p
I might be a big fan of CrossCode
As a Linux user (20+ years), I really appreciate it how easy it is nowadays to play games on Linux. As a gamer, I can see how it would be frustrating to have these types of issues playing particular games when I want on Linux. Thanks to Luke & Linus for a thoughtful, well written, and well produced series.
As a windows user for 20+ years I appreciate how much easier it is to game on Windows than Linux
@Jorge Laughingman Sorry, your analogy comes off as wrong and petty. Games are just software. And before Microsoft of the 1990s, there were vibrant markets for PC games on other platforms - Apple, Commodore, Atari, Amiga, Spectrum, etc.
I for one appreciate there are companies and individuals that have been able to come together to create an ecosystem on Linux that is as functional as it is with less than 1% market share. While there are a lot of users who don't care and just want to play games, it's enough of an ecosystem that Microsoft can't just do whatever they want.
Thanks for getting captions done for this! I appreciate the accessibility. There were some errors but it's still quite good. Do you do the captions internally or outsource it?
So now I'd really like to see LTT do some reviews (and even extended test-drives) of laptops and desktops from Slimbook and Tuxedo that come shipped with Linux pre-installed.
Yeah, specially a System76 one, they should send one to try to redeem themselves for the inconvenience in the first video.
As a die-hard Linux convert since 2019 (after the forced Windows 10 "creators update"), hearing the whole bit about Linux gamers being stubborn on not playing games that just can't be played on Linux... Extremely accurate right there.
I am stubborn about not playing games which does not work. I am not vocal about it I dont message devs or anything but if I spend 5 hours making game work and it does not work I will not play it and refund it.
Dev doesn't care about Linux? Ok I don't care about your game I can play hundreds of other games, you can have hundreds of other players.
I'm with you guys, same as when I choose hardware I make sure it works on Linux. The problem is, with our small numbers, voting with our wallet has next to 0 impact
Well, if it doesn't run on Linux, then obviously I cannot play it on Linux. And no thanks, I don't want to set up a dual-boot system or maintain a separate Windows gaming rig. If this is considered as stubborness, then hell ya, I'm stubborn. :)
@@Kedvespatikus honestly fuck windows and the consumerism it stands for.
@Regal Farmer thanks c: the gf made these for us
I found it really interesting the part where they mentioned linux being such a time sink for developers. That 0.1% of sales but 20% of support tickets thing is eye opening.
Yeah funny how the 80/20 principal pops up in everything. Cut out the 20% causing the most trouble and you'll have an easier time. Even if it is sad for Linux.
It could be a part of the story. Linux users are generally more competent so they knew what sort of bugs presenting in the games and they know how to write one. Unlike on Windows when there is something happens, people will less likely to know what to write.
Other devs have reported that they got much more useful bug reports from Linux users, so they were a great help.
But but the Linux fanboys say Windows is worse and problems simply don't exist on Linux 😂
@@just__khang The 20% figure refers to automatic crash reports, not manual bug report forms
4:51 nvidia x server predicted twitter's new logo
Just stopping in 2 years later and I have to say proton is god tier now. Gaming is so accessible on Linux.
I've used Linux since 2007 off and on. Used to use Ubuntu, then Mint, as well as antiX, Slitaz, elementary, Fedora, Puppy Linux, and now Manjaro. I've seen gaming evolve from the first Ubuntu version I ran (7.10) where it was completely nonexistent, to today, where >60% of games actually work on all kinds of Linux distros. Without a doubt we have a ways to go still. But thank you guys for your objective, blunt, and refreshing take on this topic. I appreciate your efforts. And the light you shine on these issues will likely drive us in the right direction.
nothing but love for this series. it even gives linux users an insight into the perspective of a windows gamer. and we know, the linux gaming scene will continue to improve as it has did in last few decades. from virtually no games playable to even getting triple A titles running, we've come a long way and there is a long way to go. so thank you linus (torvalds and sebastian)
btw i use arch :)
Very nice comment, especially torvalds the end ;)
I've enjoyed the ride with this series. It kind of reminds me of the year I made FreeBSD my daily driver on the desktop. If you think Linux has some rough edges, those edges are even rougher in the BSD world. But it is quite usable for most day-to-day tasks. Gaming is the roughest area, and with the current state of Wine on FreeBSD lacking WoW64 support, running Windows games under FreeBSD can be even trickier than on Linux. After that year of FreeBSD on the desktop, I was even more grateful for all the progress that has been made on the Linux platform for both general usability and gaming specifically.
I use linux as my primary desktop system since forever, switched several distros, went full cycle from manually compiling the kernel to relying on GUI for everything. And I always had a windows in dualboot for one purpose: as a game launcher. Since now it is even legal to have unactivated windows for personal use, there is no downside to this setup. Although, if you are streaming, that may fall outside "personal", but that's another story.
As much as i want to do this, i'm limited on the ssd space, so i don't dual boot.
Linux user here. Your videos have immensely helped the community fix issues and bugs.
as an ameteur developer i really underestimated the value of constructive and honest feedback. Videos/ series like his would be insanely helpful on my projects thats for sure.
The issues of closed source software written for another platform are not Linux's to fix. I play Doom on Linux because the source code is available and I can compile it to run natively on Linux. Works great.
@@1pcfred Wooosh...
@@1pcfred Standard Linux elitist response.
@@1pcfred the problem is Linux. Not the games.
As a more experienced Linux user (daily driven and messed with my Linux desktop, then laptop for 2 years), all I can say is " *sigh * fair.."
Guess we could've been a bit more honest about the state of Linux for beginners.
Thanks for this series, it does make the state of gaming on Linux right now.
I have tried to get into Linux multiple times for the past 20 years. The learning curve is much steeper than I have time, or desire to sink my time into. It's a shame.
I have daily drive Linux as my desktop for about two decades, and I really love how it makes me more productive as a software developer. Yet I never thought it's for beginners. It just not.
this challenge was very good because you gave more visibility to a common user about what it's like to play on linux and brought constructive criticism that will definitely help the linux community a lot. I believe that in some time linux will really be a great gaming platform, I really want that since I just love the system
props to both of you for giving Linux a shot under the spotlight. Special props to Linus though, choosing Manjaro as a beginner is not just masochistic, it's plain suicidal :D
oh and btw, the issue you had with the soundcard (that deactivated 'randomly') is due to the bus manager which, by design, leaves the current control to the user: you have to remove the power management from the bus that's hosting the soundcard, or it will be deactivated when not in use.
Great powers come with great tinkering
Manjaro is supposed to be the Arch-based answer to Ubuntu pretty much, so that means beginner friendly, easy to setup, and start using without needing to even toucb the command line... Definitely not masochistic or suicidal to go with lol, in my experience too as I used to dual boot Manjaro Xfce.
Having had to build kernels in 1997, I am pretty impressed with the level of user friendliness achieved by now. But gaming is just not painless. I actually think it is quite amazing how many games actually work as they were never produced for the many varieties of Linux.
I found it interesting that both Manjaro and Mint were used. I use the latter myself for the sheer joy of the Cinnamon desktop, coming from a graphics design background and not being all that impressed with moronising of UI's like Apple keeps doing. Manjaro I tried once and the ongoing rollout f'd it up within a month. I always had some testing rig to try things and see developments. But I want to have full control over my systems and what's updated or when, so Debian based for my workstations and servers.
As a graphics designer I am well aware of the many limitations of Linux and the use of FOSS, but hey,.. if Pantone wants to become irrelevant to me... I don't have corporate clients that much anyway. I would think they were more into selling Ink than just the software. CMYK will do fine for most purposes and magenta and black can be used as placeholders for any 2 colour print. As always, with freedoms come responsibilities.
Well, gaming's seems to be better than it used to be in 2010 when barely any game had a Linux port. I really hope it will be even better by the 2025 (Win10 EOL date, I am NEVER going to install Win11 spychip and spyboot requirement is simply too much).
@@UltimatePerfection yeah win 11 is a nogo. hopefully linux is ready by then, not just for gaming but running all Windows applications.
@@UltimatePerfection
lol wtf, are you seriously calling the TPM module a "spychip"? xD You can take advantage of it on linux as well.
@@meyes1098 The key thing is, I don't HAVE to use it on Linux. And do you know what kind of code is in it, really? If a big software company pushes for something so hard, something that actually isn't essential to get their software running, you bet the three letter agencies have their interest in it.
The thing is, BIOS was fine. MBR was fine. We didn't need UEFI and we certainly don't need TPM.
@@buzzdx Maybe not all, but certainly a major percentage.
As Thorsten Leemhuis once said: "I'm still playing Linux kernel and am looking for the final boss enemy"
honestly i have more fun playing with linux than i do games nowadays
The reason I know so much about Linux is because I watch a lot of Linux content and I've been watching a lot for a year now!
I'm going to agree with you on most of this. I've been using only Linux systems for about 20 years and, on the rare occasion when I feel like playing a game, I usually don't find any games I can install and want to play. I'm thinking of building a Windows system to play around with lately, but I think just using Windows for basic tasks will be as challenging for me as doing it with Linux was for you.
just pass a GPU through to a VM
Just curious if anyone in the comments remembers when Tux Kart and Tux Racer were some of the few games on Linux that you could get to work with 2 clicks? I remember playing those on Linux when I was messing around with Linux "Ultimate Edition" in high school. And then I got Minecraft and found out that I could run other games not in the repositories in Linux... That was a game changer (and also got me off of "Ultimate Edition" because unfortunately it was too graphically bloated)
I ran only Linux when my kids where younger. My son no now 16 still calles it "super tux copy Mario.". Super Tux and tux kart where favorites
@@dhyskRand To be fair, Super Tux copied Mario (and nothing wrong with that, btw). Just like SuperTuxKart copied Super Mario Kart.
Both are amazing games.
Tremulous, OpenArena, and Urban Terror were my go tos. WoW WotLK ran pretty good on WINE, got better performance on Ubuntu 8.10 than Vista.
I loved Tux Racer!
hahah yes glad someone else does
Even with all the problems you encountered, it is amazing that Linux gaming has come this far. I hope it will continue to improve.
Wow, that so surprising Linus mentioned Supreme Commander and FAForever :) huge respect!
Best RTS ever, btw.
Linux got some major fixes and features implemented solely because of this series. I wish it keeps being covered in the upcoming years of this channel so that it can finally get the attention it needs to improve to the point average people can come to use it.
The issue with the animation "smoothness" feeling in Manjaro is likely the "Compositor" as I think Linus is using KDE. It forces 60fps and causes stuttering. Disable temporarily with Shift+Alt+F12
Edit: This isn't justifying it, this is just the solution. The fact that Compositor is on by default and not an option while causing these detrimental effects reflects terribly on the accessibility of Linux.
Too bad, this challenger ends weeks ago.
Yeah, Nvidia driver issue which wouldn't have happened on AMD or Intel graphics. Thanks, Nvidia.
@@benedani9580 no it was the KDE compositor.
@@donkey7921 No it was the bubble gum flavor!
Yes, on KDE you can also make the application windowed, right click the title bar, and disable compositing when the app is open, then back to fullscreen. TLDR for non-linux people, this issue stems because X-Org is literally band-aided software from the 80's; Wayland aims to solve that and potentially one up MS.
PLEASE START MAKING BENCHMARKS ON LINUX!!!!!!!! help us to know how good/bad is a game in linux and if its working
Id like to see yall come back and try linix daily drive again now and see if gamings better yet.
I think it would be a good idea for there to be a gaming specific distro, then all developers can focus on that distro for development, and it can come packaged with all the relevant drivers
technically there are a few tbh
As a full-time Linux user since 2013, I thank you to go through this challenge and share your valuable insights. You pointed out many things and some of those are actually being addressed by the developers. Your videos show how far Linux needs to go and also how far has it come. Overall, I enjoyed this series. Thank you again.
Yes Linux needs to go very far away from closed source software written to run on Windows.
I remember when i had to manually install mp3 support for ubuntu and now steam just works out if the box - linux has come such a long way in the ~15 years I've been using it on and off. I especially love that the emulation scene is so hot on linux. But no, i will never get my technologically inept boyfriend to game on linux. It's far away from being "plug and play" for someone who can't even update their own gpu driver. But like... that's fine. That's okay. Pc gaming is diverse, and linux is one facette, and windows is another. Maybe, in another 15 years, we'll be at a point where they are equally viable for anyone.
Or just switch boyfriends jk
Thank you for making this series. =)
And I hope we'll be able to welcome you to the Linux community permanently one day soon. ;-)
Even if today might not be the day.
I think everyone is missing the point here about the linux kernel. Linux distros are basically a blank slate at which some user can tailor to his or her needs. The fact that it may not work with some things is the fact being the kernel is generalized but so lightweight we don't have a "one-size-fits-all" model as does windows possesses hence the installation differences being 10s of Gbs on the disc. For that plug-n-play experience for almost anything, you'll need about the same data space usage similar to windows. For just your stuff to work, you'll need a customized unit specific to your needs. But as we develop for practically everything, we'll eventually get plug-n-play functionality but do not expect leading edge capabilities any time soon.
10:46 Honestly man, that's exactly why I play on console. It's not because I'm not computer savvy enough, I just don't want to do it. I work in IT and, while I don't work on end-users' computers anymore, I spend a lot of my time at my desk working to make things work or understand how they work. I went through some massive burnout because of it all, so I started making changes in how I use technology outside of work, which meant I completely dropped PC gaming for console gaming. I try to keep things as simple as possible when I'm not at work, so I don't wind up in that burnt out position again. D:
@@georgexander7170 Did you think this was a QA section? No, it's a comment section. Grow up.
@@georgexander7170 ok zoomer
I think that is a very valid reason and in my case also why I just stick with Windows for gaming OR my Switch.
I don't need much from a PC outside of gaming anyway other than to play music, open an office suite and handle my photo editing program.
While Linux is really cool, it is not necessary for those tasks.
@@georgexander7170 didnt know you have to be asked before posting a comment on a public platform 🤣
I really understand where you're coming from.
I work with a lot of engineers, quite some are (very) deeply into programming, either embedded (electronics) or even video games.
They just don't want to work with Linux because they have their mind full of other stuff than memorizing command line code and what not. I used to run Linux as my daily driver for 6 years, although I have over 20 years experience with Linux.
But it's a bit like you, it was just so much non-stop fussing around.
After a day of work just not really what I want, and I was actually starting to even kind of hate working with my PC.
On a professional level it just became basically unreliable or things just took way to much time (= money)
With Windows, Mac OS, and Linux, there is something to hate about each one.
And also something to love.
@@strayling1 exactly, windows for gaming, macOS for privacy and easy of use for productivity tasks, Linux also for privacy and for customizability alongside independence from corportations
@@notahistorymajor686 Yes and no. It's all about ROI for sniffers and hackers. Statistically speaking, there aren't as many Mac's, and even fewer of those Mac's hold valuable data. That means it's more profitable to work on exploits for PC's. So even though it isn't more private by design, it's more private in a round about way
@@bobograndman macos for privacy, Apple sold you some nice commercial
@@bobograndman "MacOS for privacy"
*Bruh...*
About the Xbox controller, I know this is a year ago. But yesterday I just paired my controller with my PC and it just worked without any drivers in Ubuntu
My wired xBox 360 (from an unofficial 3rd party manufacturer) also just worked, as well as the official Switch Pro controller via bluetooth.
Terminal Command Simulator is one of my favourite games. I've put well over 1000+ hours into it and I keep coming back for more...