I made $0 in my first year as a fulltime gamedev
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- A year ago, I took the plunge into fulltime gamedev. Unfortunately I didn't get the riches I was hoping for. In this video, I go over what happened, how much we earned, and where we're going to the next year.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Living the dream
01:21 Studio background
02:19 Earnings
04:52 My runway
05:33 Our next game
07:21 This is dumb
09:08 Some wins
---
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Making €13k in your first year is actually really great! It took me 5 years making 40+ Flash games to get close to that amount.
And the fact that you didn't quit after your first game and are pushing forward means you are gaining more and more knowledge with each project which will hopefully help improve your odds of success in the future!
This is the first time I'm hearing about your next game, in terms of idea it sounds solid so I'm curious to hear more.
You didn't lose money? Impressive.
Skill issues. Just photosynthesize your food, bro.
Amazing!
Eagerly anticipating the next video "How to survive and live frugally while on a gamedev salary ($0)" starring Marnix
That would be the most boring video ever.
€1050 goes to my mortgage payments
The rest goes to me eating the same food every day for 6 months straight, and my gym subscription. -M
@@bitemegames It's good that you keep up with sports and I assume a relatively healthy diet. That is still important even if you are overwhelmed with work or on a tight buget. Good luck on your future projects
@@bitemegames I don't think that you have to eat the same food everyday. I got the same goals as you and I'm still eating good! lol 🤣
This type of honesty in business, gamedev, and creativity in general deserves to be awarded. As a freelance voice actor who quit his job in 2019 and is somehow still doing it, I feel like this is opening up an aspect of inner dialogue for my own business that I need to acknowledge. Thank you very much for sharing these parts of your journey.
I think you did the right thing. Im 44 now and never took that leap, . I just released my first commercial game last year but always take things to cautiously and I regret leaving it to late.
Your next game sound really intriguing, you need that steam page up so we can go and wishlist it.
Whats ur game name?
@@loopzys Dungeons of Mysteria is released and I am currently working on Paws for Adventure
@@loopzys I see YT swallowed my reply :P
My game is Dungeons of Mysteria but Im now working on Paws for Adventure
commenting so i get a notification when he tells us the name lol
@@Ben_of_Milam_Music I've tried posting the name 3 times and YT keeps deleting the comment :(
Its Dungeons of Mysteria(Im also working on Paws for Adventure)
I love you guys' honest takes. As a solo game dev doing this part time, i'm kind of glad to hear that its normal what Im going through. Its not easy, especially doing this with a job and two small kids!
as for a solo dev i would say start it as a hobby and push yourself being more social to get some basic reach and followers and the transition will most likely come naturally.
however, living in a expensive country will make the transition a lot harder.
making 1000€ a month from patreon in germany hardly pays your life necessities.
on the other hand 1000€ in other countries can enable you to have a modest life and go full indie dev.
ive seen solo devs making like 3k a month just from patreon while living in countries like indonesia, poland etc, which translates to upper class salaries.
on the other hand, here in germany those 3 grand will quickly melt away with taxes and overall cost of living.
im still in the learning phase and i wouldnt dream about quitting my current job, despite it being soul draining.
On the bright side your new game looks awesome af.
The UI alone is leaps & bounds better. If they do a decent sound design to match, they might really have something good on their hands 👍
I love seeing indie game devs make CZcams videos like this; very personal, open and honest. Something you’ll NEVER see from an established developer, we need more transparency and as gamers to be heard instead of being treated as cattle for shareholders.
This is why I've always said: I will keep my job as teacher and do game dev on the side. I love my job as a teacher anyway! Plus, I get summers, winter and spring break off where I get to do game dev, travel and anything else.
It's really nice to hear this kind of honesty and openness.
Regardless of whether you have to wind things down and go back to a regular job in a year or not, I think you've made the right choice. You're young. Now is the time to experiment, which is precisely what you're doing. Maybe it works out. Maybe it doesn't. But if it doesn't, you have that much more experience for trying again down the line, if you want to. And honestly, there are plenty of people, at least in my country, who don't even get a real job until around or even after 30, because of long studies, or similar. You still have 7 years until then, and honestly, for most people I've talked to, life mostly gets better as you mature, not worse. But maybe you have more responsibilities by then, making the gamedev thing that much harder.
Keep up the transparent and honest videos. Most devs who start youtube are trying too hard to be something they're not. Looking forward to more videos! Keep grinding!
Man I admire you for going all in so young. This is precisely the time people should do that. When you are older its so much harder, because its not just you taking on the risk anymore. I just started my gamedev journey, I am 37. There is no question in my mind I should have done this looong ago but alas here I am. If it was just me I absolutely would take the risk go all in full-time and see what happens. But its not just me so its a very very slow grind right now. I love every minute of it though, even when its late at night and my mind is completely fried from literally programming all day because I still work a full-time dev job. Really enjoy the content you guys provide, so keep up the good work! It helps me stay motivated.
You’re very brave to have quit your job and financially support the studio, world needs more people like you!
I really like your videos because it's different from the other channels like Thomas Brush who already has a acomplished a lot (released many games, got a lot of fundings). I fell much closer to you and where you are currently standing than the alreay successful indie game developers.
I'm sure your studio will make the great hit you want to make in the future.
And yesterday I bought tickets to the GameForce in Utrecht in Octover this year. Maybe I will see you there?
We won't be at GameForce this year, as I'll be living in Japan during that period. Should have droppped by last year ;) -M
Thank you for the honesty and transparency, this channel is a gift
I really like the glasshouse approach you guys have to sharing your inisghts. Haven't seen a snake oil video from you guys yet. Really just keeping it straight, and tempering people's expectations when it comes to the realities of being a small startup.
good luck! Hopefully you can keep up the growth on the channel.
Massive respect for your work at Cisco dude. They have some great products but I feel awful for their sales people/engineers who are picking up the pieces trying to push their less great cybersecurity-oriented products. I don't know if you were in that capacity but I've heard nothing but worrying things from the engineers and ex-engineers that have worked there.
You're just right man! In India it's freaking problematic to start game studio😅 and here its now a bubble like.stuff some same studios making games but having no scope to get sales! They gets funded by investers and kinda looks like a hell ending soon.
Yeah. It's became very mainstream to make games/work in IT so much that there was huge boom of boot camps and investment scams. There is a lot of money in gamedev to be made but if people are not working with passion, they deliver heartless product. On other side, it's very hard to find several or many people who are passionate about working on someone else idea. It's quite complicated. Ideally, you get group of people who are passionate about same ideas/idea or universe and they bring magic to life. Warcraft used to be this.
Much like you I'm making $100k a year working for an ISP, helping to sustain a datacenter. Recent changes have made me question if i really want to continue doing it or get out into something I enjoy more. I was thinking that YT income would help support the GameDev process, but listening to your advice of not quitting my job really reaonated. I'll keep doing it as a hobby side instead of risking it. Already established myself in my industry, so I'll stick it out till they are done with me. But I'll keep watching your videos and following your journey.
I have been watching some of your videos since they keep appearing on my yt home. I like your transparency, it's really refreshing. I think that if you guys persist, you will eventually build a game that will be a hit. As a side note, content wise..I really liked what another studio was doing, you can look it up: sleeping giant games. I would rather like to watch mini vlogs on progress or documentary videos mixing vlog format and dissertation on game dev issues. I think it is a niche very underdeveloped... show don't tell, kind of content. Keep it up.
Thank you for always being so open!
Hey man! Thanks for your videos and i really appreciate your honesty with successes and failures
Yeah, keep going! As Thor (Pirate Software) says, just keep making stuff. Learn from your mistakes, learn why it failed. Make something better next time. You will eventually make that hit game.
I have to admit, I didn't want to subscribe until I realized you're putting your finances on the line to bootstrap this studio. If you keep financials transparent and operations as open as possible, count with my engagement. Wish you guys were a godot shop, but oh well
Great video!! Please talk more about your interns - what the process was like hiring them, what they get out of the whole experience, etc. Would make for a great vid!
Cool, thanks for sharing hard-truth reality of starting a gamedev studio 🙂 great reminder that success doesn't happen overnight
I really enjoy your openness. And I wish for you that I witness you that you get the hype that you deserve. Hopefully sooner thar later.
As always, thanks for the openness and honesty, and wishing you the best with Guild Architect! 😊
At the beginning of January this year I started making a new game with goal of releasing it as an early access by end of 2024, right after the festival in October, I haven't trailer yet so steam page is in half way to finish, is FPP survival-automation postapo so it wasn't be that small, if it doesn't work out I will be too 0$ in first year solo fulltime dev
Actually idea to move to Bali, Thai, Sri Lanka or any tropical country is good. I’m living in Sri Lanka almost 10 years. Last year I have started to develop my first game. And I don’t have to think too much about how to survive, because renting room is 300 usd per month, food also cheaper than in Europe and so on. So, think about it:) I’m just focused on my game and that’s all. Nothing worry me too much. And also whole year the same temperature is great.
You guys have potential!
Would you be able to make a video about how a new feature is discussed and designed within the team? Great video!
Marnix I'm curious: have you guys considered doing outsource work for other game companies as an extra source of income? Like, having Thomas on loan for a couple of months to another dev while the rest of the team ramps up on Guild Architect's art?
Cool idea, but have heard it can be a trap. A lot of studios, esp those without access to investor-funding, end up as "permanently support", never quite making enough to justify doing their own games. Basically if you're good, then the opportunity cost of doing in-house projects becomes too steep, relative to having client money coming in.
It's something a lot of studios do. However, at that point, we would rather just wrap things up, because you'll end up with your studio on life support, unable to do anything you want for your own game, and losing the freedom of not working for someone else.
If we do reach the point where we really have to work for someone else, we'll call it a day, and I'll go back into regular tech, where at least I'll be paid much better and have to work less than in gamedev. -M
Good update, honest views.
I think your next game looks/sounds promising, the idea will appeal to Steam/PC audience, I think.
I guess when you get the Steam page up you can use the usual wishlist metrics to have a little clue to future income?
We can, but we'll still have to deal with the problem of the first Steam paycheck probably only hitting in January 2025, we'll need to find some funding to bridge that gap, even if we end up with a million wishlists. -M
I'm 40, I've been working in game dev for 40 years as a programer, and what bother me the most with this video is that you are working full time on my dream game (adventurer guild management), while I worked on my own prototype for 4 years already and now completely dropped it because I don't have the energy to be both coding at work and at home. :(
Don't hate, relate! 😅 Your idea & theirs may be similar, but the implementation would be totally different. If you don't have much energy/time, then scope-down, maybe check out their feature tier-list vid to see areas you could cut back on. Getting that first game completed - even if you don't release it! - is just a massive motivator to keep going and work on the next one.
I remember Breaking Bad creators originally were not sure about their project, because they thought it will become rip-off of Weeds. They went ahead and did it anyway :)
Just take the best ideas and add something on your own.
As for being tired, have you considered concentrating more on the art side of things? I am a programmer myself and what pulls me towards game dev at the moment is artistic expression.
bro， you are 40 and you have worked for 40 years…… you started coding right after getting out from your Mom’s ……??
Going full on something without having a taste of reality, checking the market, or gaining bare minimum experience is crazy risky. Doesn't matter if we are opening a burger place or a gamedev studio - do not do that before thinking.
All the stories of devs on youtube that are quitting their jobs to run gamedev career are always making me worried for them hoping that their story is made up with a pinch of drama for the views and that they actually thought it through.
I wouldn't be able to do this. I literally prefer to make the whole process way longer but still have the comfort zone of my 9-5 paycheck
Effort is never lost. It may just not manifest its fruit in the ways we expect.
At the end of the day, you can always get a job. I don't think it's "that" hard to get a job for you. So there isn't much risk involved here. I don't tell you to quit game dev, that's pretty stupid. I'm leaving this comment to tell you that, if the worst case happens in the future, and you have to quit game dev, make it a temporary quitting, and get back to what you are doing as soon as you can.
I see bright future in this. I know you are struggling. I myself do it as a hoppy. Because I can't quit my job. I'm a husband and a father, it's simply not possible. But damn I wish I could.
It's hard. I do a full time job, and THEN, I make CZcams videos, and ALSO I work on my own projects. I know it's going to be fruitful, maybe not in the ways I expect...
I really hope you guys succeed. I didn't quite like the art style of your first game but the game you're currently working on looks very interesting. There is no steam page yet for it is it?
Not yet, the capsule art and such is currently still being made. Expect a first devlog and Steam page somewhere 2nd half of May. -M
it might feel hard, it might sometimes feel wrong, but trust me.... you are on the right path, things will eventually work out. do not stop what you are doing. work hard on your 20s. so that you can live the life most dream off in your 30s. i will follow your progress
Am I hearing you are trying to make something similar to Darkest Dungeon (at least from the idea perspective). Thats a hell of a game right there. Good luck! I recently started working and designing a game myself with a friend. Maybe something or other will work out!
I myself am 27 but I do have a Computer Science degree. So that is my copium that I will be able to eventually get decent at at least making games whether successful or not
Idea sounds more like Recettear, or all those Fantasy Shopkeeper Sim mobile games. It's a fun genre - but they should strongly consider porting it to Switch and/or mobile, not just Steam. Way more fans of that genre elsewhere.
And good luck with your game & your CS career! If you can, try to build a portfolio & resume that emphasizes how your game skills & projects can apply to "normal" software development. There's a lot of overlap, but hiring folks don't necessarily see it right away - so it's handy to lay out the parallels clearly.
how much did you personally grow since you left your 9 to 5 job and became a game dev?
Boosting engagement in progress.
Great video!
Love the thumbnail
This is high risk high reward situation. You're not earning now, but without this work you're doing right now you would had zero chance to make another mega popular indie game. Now your chances are higher. Good luck!
Probably reason why many indie game devs sell courses to survive
I so appreciate this guy
Thinking about sales and stuff, is Steam the only place your uploading your game? My question is more oriented towards if you need or not a publisher or something to get into other online stores that may help with sales
Steam is where most of your audience lives. Sure you can put your game on GOG, Itch, Epic Games, your own site,... But all of them compared will still be less than 1% of what Steam would sell. You don't need a publisher in this day anymore for releasing, as even platforms like Xbox, PlayStation and Switch offer easy to enter indie programs. -M
You also got a Thomas Brush shout out and that ain’t too bad either
Congrats to Dream. Maybe not perfect but once upon Time. You will drive an Urus
Thanks for everything,
the honesty and showing everything is really meaningfull!
It's got to be hard to sell games. More games are coming out than I have time to play. I haven't even finished the last three games I got at the beginning of the year.
You know those students at universaty who are always the first in the
auditorium an hour before lecture starts.... now we know what become of them.
Anyway, with that devotion, I'm sure one day it will all pay of (if not with money, the experience is priceless) , but - nevermind the age - you giving advise like a 70 year old sensei is all we need from this channel.
BiteMe Games? More like GigaChad Gains. But fr, appreciate your insights about game development. Ya'll some real one. Guild Architect sounds dope!
You could sell digital assets for a little extra something to help fund the studio :>
We've actually done this. It's been going pretty bad, video about that coming out now Friday. -M
marnix is 23 what i thought you were like 30
Technically, you have made negative then if you are using your savings to fund your living expenses. As that is your salary.
Preface: I echo the positive comments, long term watcher and enjoyer of the content.
Just an observation, there wont ever be a perfect time to quit and take the plunge, and it's pretty unlikely there'll be a good time either. A better narrative would be to say "make sure it's a secure enough time for you, and that you're aware you will probably make $0 for the first 2 years"
I need to find someone like to do the marketing/youtube side of things, so I can focus on the game dev side of things! XD
Fortunately, my game design studies are still taking a while... maybe the industry will have calmed down by then... and if not, I'll stay in my first job and continue to pursue Game Development / Game Design / 3D Art as a hobby. Life is good (even without Game Dev).
I feel like most of your previous studio/Forge Industry videos have been leading to this point.
Let be honest, if the game you made took longer than a year, you still would have made $0, but maybe it might have been a better game.
On the other hand, it could have had the same exact result with just more time spent.
I'm sure you've already come to this conclusion, but even if you burn through all of your runway and have to walk away from this, you will look back on your experiences with nothing but happiness!
After watching the first few seconds I thought you're going to make a lame joke saying you earned 0 dollars because you earned euros. I'm glad you said something else.
Did you guys stop working on your samurai game? I didn't realize you were already on your next game
I think that's Sasquatch B who's making Samurado. We were making a Chinese mythology roguelite up untill like 2 months ago, when we ended up axing it due to poor performance and some other big issues: czcams.com/video/otpICzbhtbw/video.html -M
@@bitemegames Hi, yes I'm aware of Sasquatch B. Ah For some reason I thought your Chinese Mythology game had a samurai in it haha. Sorry about the issues you guys faced 🥲
3:00 While your CZcams success is absolutely deserved and I wish you the best, PLEASE don't become another Thomas Brush. I want to see you make games and actually apply the advice that you're giving in your videos to your games.
You sure you'll be able to release by November?
Eh, I'd think so, but whether we hit it or not, it doesn't change the fact that we're going to have to find a bag of money before then, since a first payout in Jan 2025 is still going to be too late. -M
@@bitemegames Hopefully BiteMe lives on past that. Don't want to see this end.
this guy does not make games he makes clickbait youtube videos
Your dream is also my dream... I hope you succeed😁
Boost ❤
You had savings at 23 ? I’m 26 and I haven’t made more than 1K in my entire life yet 😆 but to be fair, I’ve also barely worked at all 🤷🏻♀️
so you keep not hitting those sale quotas... damn
16.9% refund rate makes me feel better about my 14% refund rate 😅
Why did William get paid and you not? How did you decided how to share/split the revenue?
okay... I should have waited. :)
We don't split revenue, we get paid regular wages, I technically "earn" the same as he does, although I own more % of the company than him (29% vs 21%).
I also have more runway than he does, so and we do earn something at this point, so we may as well pay him out first. Once it gets more of an issue for me (and we hopefully have more financial breathing room), I can look at paying myself out as well. -M
Let me be clear as well that I don't want to be paid over him, I've been willing to split whatever wages we pay with him (e.g. a wage for me and the next month a wage for him). Before you get the idea I'm trying to keep myself paid above him :)
@@bitemegames Wow Thanks for that level of transparency.👍btw.: I never thought (and also didn't want to imply) that anybody in your studio is taking advantage or so. I just wanted to know how a financial split would/could work. 😅 It was very enlightening, thanks again. Sorry William if it came out wrong. 🙇♂
@@upperdemoon sorry, I didn't mean for my question to come over like this. I'm sure you all are consenting adults and made a deal / contract, that are okay/fair for you all. Just wanted to understand it better. Thanks for the transparency. Sorry again, I hope there are no hard feeling.
It was never easy to launch a game and get money from it, I've seen countless of great games fail, it's unfurtunately a super high risk job for indies, but building a fanbase is good, but if your fanbase is only devs is bad because they don't buy games.
Did you make more money from youtube than your game?
No, €3k from YT, €5k net from Forge Industry. Of course, some people who saw us on CZcams, ended up buying the game still to support us. -M
You guys are being held back by the name BiteMe games. It's an awful name. I fear this will make people question your judgement in all other areas, including game design, if you think this is a solid studio name. Hard truths spoken with love.
Are you not hitting the gym anymore?
17 euros per video on average... damn, not too good
Imho being a "fulltime gamedev" doesn't have to mean to start a business. Work on your skills, get good and then get hired in a professional studio making real games. Running a business usually takes totally different things than the ones that make up a good developer.
why don't you just chill in a country like vietnam or thailand, live a relaxed life and pursue your dream of becoming a gamedev. thats the biggest benefit of not being a 9 to 5 slave. use that. with 1000€/month you can do really well there. additionally that would boost your yt channel, because you can make funny/interesting vlogs. greetings
what happened to your roguelite game?
$13k is not bad at all for the first year yet its not enough for a 4 man team to sustain.
Maybe do a video on why you should consider NOT going full time on game dev
So you didn't wanted to be a salesman, so you quit your job and became a salesman on the internet instead. For no money. Nice.
(I'm sarcastic, but still funny if you look it that way)
Sounds like he didn't want to do sales for that company/situation, which is fair. If you don't believe in the product or the clients, you won't have the passion to be a good salesperson. Hence the much greater success selling the "product" that is BiteMe 😄
I know, I know. I actually realized that as well. Turns out, I don't hate sales, when it's something I'm passionate about, with a product I care about. I was selling boxes to multinational companies who were always complaining about pricing, and not caring about the tech or anything that's behind it.
I did learn a lot of selling this past year, and I don't hate it when it comes to games/gamedev. -M
Go to sleep! Otherwise you're going to be 40 by the year 2026.
So you quit your "real" job cause they put you on sales, but aren't you now the same situation basically... ?
Why aren't you more in development process? Wouldn't the game benefits from it?
The idea is CZcams will fund the studio or the game ?
So, here's what I learned. I don't hate sales, if it's selling something I like. I don't mind talking about my game, talking about gamedev, and everything else related to it.
I hate the part of tech sales where you're expected to go out drinking with potential customers 2-4x/week, have 4 month long sales processes, follow ups, sending out quotes,... All to sell some metal box that will go into some guy's datacenter, who will always complain about it being too expensive.
Why am I not as involved into the dev process? Because it's not my best skillset. The rest of the team has computer science degrees in programming, I don't. They run circles around me in terms of writing functioning code. We've got artists as well now who completely destroy me in regards to art skills. I am the best of our studio at this CZcams stuff however, and like I said, currently every video I make, earns our studio something, however little it may be.
The idea is that CZcams will bridge the gap between now, and when our game releases and Steam pays us out.
-M
@@bitemegames ok I guess I get it kinda of wrong. But game dev has so many branches and every single contribution counts twords the final game.
Hey I really like your video's so you are clearly making something right with it.
But don't you wish to to be more in the development process? By making anything really, like I said before there are so much to do. I don't bite the "I'm not the best to that job or I'm not good enough..." If you do you improve, by improving and doing eventually the contribution will be more and more relevant I think
Bro, get some sleep. Your eyes are getting darker. You're young but eventually health snowballs and you have to pay it back with interest.
Why did you reach the conclusion that you are bad at game design? I don't think that's the case.
Well to be fair your not a game dev. You've made one something that sort of resembles a "game"? Most your time is spent giving advice on things you're clearly not experienced with.
The developed a game, how does that not make them a game developer?
@@ryuusaisai Notice I put "game" in quotes.
@@SS-gu2tx it has gameplay, has released on steam, and is playable... it is a game yeah. It's not an amazing game, but it's still a game though.
@@ryuusaisai So you concede it sucks? Good, Steam reviews agree; thankfully only a tens of people bought it.
Again, I reiterate. These guys aren't game developers. They are charlatans praying on inspiring game developers. Giving advice on topics they're clueless about. I especially love there Engine tier list.
@@SS-gu2tx I concede nothing. It's not an amazing game no, but they released a working game which makes them game developers. A bad game, is still a game.
You're a prick though, I hope you can find some happiness in your life instead of wanting to watch others fail :)
I hope you guys take off and not turn this channel into a real life "Game Dev Survival" living of the land while trying to make it on Steam. I will be beside you guys all the way either way, but rooting for you!