This Problem Changes Your Perspective On Game Dev

Sdílet
Vložit
  • čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
  • A new approach for thinking about game development and my very best advice for how to make a successful indie game.
    0:00 - Design Is a Search Algorithm
    1:33 - PROBLEM 1: Speed vs. Accuracy Tradeoff
    3:26 - PROBLEM 2: Local Minimum
    5:24 - PROBLEM 3: Infinite Search Space
    7:52 - PROBLEM 4: Wrong Reward Function
    15:58 - PROBLEM 5: Noisy Measurements
    16:31 - PROBLEM 6: Exploration Costs
    20:19 - PROBLEM 7: Multiple Captains
    23:00 - Red Flags to Look Out For
    25:27 - 3 Main Takeaways
    My game Thronefall:
    ➤ Play Thronefall on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/22...
    ➤ Join the Thronefall Discord: / discord
    My last game "Will You Snail":
    ➤ Play Will You Snail on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/11...
    ➤ Join the Will You Snail Discord: / discord
    For the game developers among you:
    ➤ Join our creative game dev community on Discord: / discord
    Hope you enjoy. :)
    #gamedev #indiedev

Komentáře • 1,1K

  • @GMTK
    @GMTK Před 2 měsíci +2291

    This is one of the absolute best videos on game dev, Jonas. Completely true, packed with actionable ideas, and backed up with your own experience. Great stuff.

    • @kaingagame4351
      @kaingagame4351 Před 2 měsíci +64

      Two legends in the same space? Amazing.
      Let's see a GMTK on games that were initially game modes!

    • @pamparam3495
      @pamparam3495 Před 2 měsíci +10

      100% agree

    • @revimfadli4666
      @revimfadli4666 Před 2 měsíci +4

      ​@@kaingagame4351like MOBA and autobattler?

    • @Yolwoocle
      @Yolwoocle Před 2 měsíci +9

      I read this in your voice

    • @DaveScurlock
      @DaveScurlock Před 2 měsíci +3

      Would really like to see you apply the contents of this video to your own journey / journeys you are familiar with x

  • @snorlaxhd4677
    @snorlaxhd4677 Před 2 měsíci +897

    Instructions unclear: made a search algorithm while at sea

    • @JonasTyroller
      @JonasTyroller  Před 2 měsíci +291

      So far so good. The next step is to teleport your captain into the ocean.

    • @flameofthephoenix8395
      @flameofthephoenix8395 Před 2 měsíci +39

      @@JonasTyroller Then after that make the artsy fartsy color swirl boat that floats above water and is meant to be sailed by aliens.

    • @notnullbit
      @notnullbit Před 2 měsíci +9

      wait we aren't suppose to be at sea?

    • @kingofgranges
      @kingofgranges Před 2 měsíci

      Nice profile pic!

    • @ChaitanyaDhareshwar
      @ChaitanyaDhareshwar Před 2 měsíci +1

      Need to Sync the instructions better. Should be easy, if you're in hot water anyways.

  • @JonasTyroller
    @JonasTyroller  Před 2 měsíci +1759

    I have officially taught you everything I know.

    • @salah3274
      @salah3274 Před 2 měsíci +26

      thank you!!

    • @cofa4011
      @cofa4011 Před 2 měsíci +55

      "Do not make a unique game for an alien species." is a great advice. ^^ Thanks for sharing your knowledge man.

    • @richardbloemenkamp8532
      @richardbloemenkamp8532 Před 2 měsíci +16

      Since you will end up as a business consultant later in your life, please note that this material is very important and diving deeper in the various subjects as part of your game dev job is a good investment. Your advice is generally applicable to product/project development.

    • @Zizaco
      @Zizaco Před 2 měsíci +3

      Thanks Jonas!

    • @Isteyak-78
      @Isteyak-78 Před 2 měsíci +4

      Hope you learn more and teach more

  • @Bananenbauer123
    @Bananenbauer123 Před 2 měsíci +961

    This video should be played in every game design course. Period.

    • @JonasTyroller
      @JonasTyroller  Před 2 měsíci +185

      I would have been very happy if somebody had shown this to me 5 years ago. That's why I made it. :D

    • @krillin6
      @krillin6 Před 2 měsíci +8

      No, it shouldn't. Not to be mean, but this is entire premise has fundamental flaws and hand waves away reality and replaces it with piles of presumptions. There is some value here, but the core idea of assuming you can engineer a solution to this problem is inherently misguided.

    • @egilelg9391
      @egilelg9391 Před 2 měsíci +14

      @krillin6 What is your alternative? Do you have a better solution?

    • @raphaeld9270
      @raphaeld9270 Před 2 měsíci +19

      @@krillin6 I'd like to know those other approaches too, because, gamedev is a soft science, since we are dealing with humans, time and trends. :D
      But it is okay, if you only have some broad strokes, those could be interesting starting points regardless.
      Have a great day everyone :D

    • @NihongoWakannai
      @NihongoWakannai Před 2 měsíci +34

      ​​@@krillin6 It's not wrong or misguided, I just think you're incapable of understanding the usefulness of an illustrative analogy. This is a very good way of explaining the creative process and how to approach the exploration of new ideas.
      If you think it's wrong then what's your job, experience and alternative approach?

  • @katanalevygames
    @katanalevygames Před 2 měsíci +379

    That "prototype art and gameplay separately" is the single best piece of game dev advice I've ever heard! I always get stuck with half completed projects because one feels like it's put limits on the other. Thank you!

    • @falseprofit9801
      @falseprofit9801 Před 2 měsíci +15

      The metaphor gets a bit wooly in places (a search algorithm doesn’t get exhausted or frustrated) but that single quote, “prototype art and gameplay separately” is honestly profound.

    • @Xalantor
      @Xalantor Před 2 měsíci +12

      Path of Exile pumps out a shit ton of content, especially enemy variety, every major patch. One way they manage this that they have many basic enemy archetypes and just try wrapping them with some textures they have lying around. Tweek the stats a bit, maybe some kind of special move and new patch enemy is done, it's brilliant. For example they used some metal clutter object textures on zombies and created some cool magic automaton enemies.

    • @RN1441
      @RN1441 Před 2 měsíci +3

      The opposite of this would be the 'Star Citizen' approach.

    • @Dogo.R
      @Dogo.R Před měsícem +6

      Heres an even more insightful version:
      Optimize for composability. Aka minimize coupling.
      Seperate things where you can.
      That way they can go different directions, they have have specialized captians for each, and they can be swapped out and replaced with little effort.
      Art and gameplay is just 1 example of adding composability.
      You can add so so much more.

    • @falseprofit9801
      @falseprofit9801 Před měsícem +1

      @@Dogo.R Do you think that's a property that someone should be checking for ~2x per day? Like when you break for lunch & dinner, for example? I'm trying to imagine applying composability to my own workflow, and all I can think of is stopping work, stepping back, and asking myself "can I afford to use an isolated, simplified environment to write the code for NPC behavior, or would doing so mess up compatibility with my main project?" Because I feel like keeping your nose down in the main project file is typically the best approach for rapid development, so time spend contemplating the cost/benefit of moving features to a separate project is gonna have diminishing returns after even 10+ minutes spent worrying about it [optimization].

  • @lew.bow.studios
    @lew.bow.studios Před 2 měsíci +335

    This should be a GDC talk!
    It was a remarkably interesting video to watch and I feel like so many things clicked for me as I was watching it.
    Thank you, Jonas!

    • @WangleLine
      @WangleLine Před 2 měsíci +19

      If this was a GDC talk it would be significantly less accessible (Not being able to edit the whole thing, having to pay a ton of money to GDC to even do the talk there etc.)
      There's nothing wrong with this being a youtube video imo.

    • @lew.bow.studios
      @lew.bow.studios Před 2 měsíci +5

      ​@@WangleLineNo one said there is anything wrong with it being a video, you just assumed that so you can be a contrarian.

    • @WangleLine
      @WangleLine Před 2 měsíci +3

      @@lew.bow.studios Hey no I'm not trying to argue, I just don't think there would be any gain from turning this into a gdc talk

    • @lew.bow.studios
      @lew.bow.studios Před 2 měsíci +13

      @@WangleLine A GDC talk means Jonas would reach a wider audience and get recognition for all the contributions he has made to the field.
      GDC talks also provide a level of insight, knowledge, and understanding which is hard to match when you consider the expertise of the people they invite as speakers.
      Saying this should be a GDC talk is akin to saying it should be a Masterclass, that it transcends the medium it was made for.

    • @abhilashlr9259
      @abhilashlr9259 Před 2 měsíci +3

      ​@@lew.bow.studiosyeah for real @jonas, see if you can do a gdc talk on thronefall

  • @theothetorch8016
    @theothetorch8016 Před 2 měsíci +351

    I like you, because you are a thinker.
    Self reflection, analysis and then decision making are great skills of yours and it shows.
    I love the clarity in your essays.

    • @JonasTyroller
      @JonasTyroller  Před 2 měsíci +59

      Appreciate the kind words. Thank you.

    • @SystemOfATool
      @SystemOfATool Před 2 měsíci +4

      That's exactly what i've been thinking throughout the whole video.

    • @zackbuildit88
      @zackbuildit88 Před 2 měsíci +4

      This is worded like a poem wha

  • @Chamassa1210
    @Chamassa1210 Před 2 měsíci +128

    This applies very much to all creation. The good thing about building any kind of software is that the cost of experimentation is really low. Thanks for your insights!

    • @NightmareRex6
      @NightmareRex6 Před 2 měsíci +2

      right once allready have the computer you allready spent the money.

    • @jeff9400
      @jeff9400 Před 2 měsíci +8

      @@NightmareRex6 not true really. Even if you are single developer, you still have to spend money on everyday needs and entertainment. So the longer you make your game/software, the more money you have to earn to pay that off. And if you are a company with a team of developers, their salaries will eat your budget if the development takes too long.

    • @gregoirenedelcovici6194
      @gregoirenedelcovici6194 Před 29 dny

      yeah I'm in the immersive theater field and this analysis holds true.
      But each creative field will have to find clever ways for fast prototyping that lead to significant measurements. And it's easier said than done.
      You have to fail often and quickly, but not too badly so you can't continue to fail.

  • @stefdevs
    @stefdevs Před 2 měsíci +288

    Congratulations, this is now the most useful game design talk on CZcams.

  • @yayos666
    @yayos666 Před 2 měsíci +82

    The only bad thing of this video is that you didn't make it 2 years ago when I started my own indie game, stumbling on the way on all of these issues. It's the single best, most informative, complete and clear tool set on how to desing and make games. I will apply all of these for my next game. Thank you very much for making it!!!

  • @Kaiwala
    @Kaiwala Před 2 měsíci +66

    In a weird way this video was incredibly motivating for me. I'm at a point in my game dev journey where I've spent the last 7 years developing random odd projects and maps for Roblox. My last creation, which I finished a "final update" of in the summer of last year, is my current magnum opus. And whilst that map, called Archipelago is my best ever creation and it took 3 years of iteration and slow improvements (even a basic form of that optimised search algorithm you show throughout this video) all I have to show for those 3 years is a handful of niche players saying it's the best map in the game.
    I wasn't paid for any of it. I have barely anybody who knows about it to show for it. The youtube video I made talking about it barely scraped by 1.7k views. And, it feels like that's not something I could throw onto a portfolio and wow anybody with.
    All my game design and developer knowledge is so entrenched in Roblox, a platform that feels like a dying corporate hellscape, that I'm too afraid to jump across the trench and try and start from scratch learning how to make a real game in engines like godot because of the sunk cost fallacy of having 7 years of Roblox game dev knowledge.
    But honestly, I've found myself coming up with 2 pretty cool ideas for a videogame that I would like to make. And they are ideas that just would not be feasible in the Roblox game engine. So I have a tough choice to make between 3 options in front of me-
    1. Finally bite the bullet and start learning a new game engine. It's going to be tough, I have no experience with coding, and I know I will get frustrated many times and it will take a long time before I ever come to creating the really cool ideas I have.
    2. Resign myself to the grip of my sunk cost fallacy and try emulate the games I wanna make in Roblox. This is far easier to do, but I don't think I will even be happy or motivated with the results.
    3. Let another set of cool ideas I have die and take the easiest option which is to not act upon any of this.
    I'm 22 years old, and part of the rising anxiety that comes with adulthood is feeling like all the free time and experimentation I had is gone. Like now I just gotta knuckle down, continue doing a real job, and have no time or energy to work on my passion projects. But I realise that that's all bull, I do still have time the only friction I feel is my own willingness to try.
    This video has described many of the problems I bumped into over the years working as a team or even as a solo in my time on Roblox. I realise now that the spent time on Roblox isn't wasted, that those years of failure can be reframed to be my (very inefficient) scouting boats. I've done many of the stuff you said here before, the 2 captains problem such as me and another project lead butting heads, developers spending more time discussing the game rather than prototyping it, and spending far too much time on a prototype and making it look fancy before realising that is all wasted work.
    I've learned these lessons already. But now this video has helped reframe all that into just another step of the process. Sure, my childhood is over. But my adulthood has just begun. And I got 80 more years of time left.
    I think it's time I start learning how to make a game. Properly, this time.
    Thank you Jonas.

    • @ric4746
      @ric4746 Před 2 měsíci +5

      Man, Zeekerss, the creator of Lethal Company was a Roblox creator too, and he jumped into gamedev and made it ! Sure, everyone isn't Zeekerss but you can try ! Good luck to you ! =D

    • @soulburner1860
      @soulburner1860 Před 2 měsíci +1

      Hey, I can't exactly claim to fully understand you since I've been playing with unity since I was 15 and have a solid background in c# already but I want to let you know that writing code is easy.
      There's several messy unoptimised ways to arrive at your solution and for small games, it will not matter.
      You just need a push to start.

    • @Kaiwala
      @Kaiwala Před 2 měsíci

      @@soulburner1860 Thanks guys for the kind words! I appreciate it!

    • @ytubeanon
      @ytubeanon Před 2 měsíci

      I'd recommend trying Unity and its native Visual Scripting, it appealed to my Lego building mind, perhaps it will appeal to your Roblox building mind. Now we have ChatGPT/Bing A.I. which can help look up answers for specific questions or coding that we want, which can be difficult to find through search engines alone

    • @Daedalus09
      @Daedalus09 Před měsícem

      Man, this sounds a lot like me. Unfortunately my ROBLOX creations didn't even get 1/100th of the attention, my magnum opus was ignored except for the positive remarks of 2 friends who checked them out. I had developed for 12 years. It's hard, especially feeling invisible regardless of what I do or where I do it. Even if I do move past those 12 years wasted and learn Godot, i'm afraid of being stuck in that same pit as I was beforehand, going completely unnoticed despite my best efforts. Like a strange middle-ground of mediocrity that nobody could care about.

  • @rubberface1424
    @rubberface1424 Před 2 měsíci +41

    Brilliant! I would say that this also applies to other creative processes, like filmmaking and writing. We should always take a moment to reflect on the process and see what can be improved and what worked. I'll definitely come back to this when troubleshooting in the future. Thank you!

  • @iceluke8084
    @iceluke8084 Před 2 měsíci +16

    You’ve just summarized everything I’ve learned in 2 years of my game design bachelor and more in 26 min.
    Keep up your insanely good work!

  • @altafcreator
    @altafcreator Před 2 měsíci +32

    Finally, a new upload! I'm still on the second minute at this point, but I already wanted to thank you so much. You were the person who ignited my game dev journey. Before I watched your videos a few years back, I already tried Unity but gave up. But then at one random night I found your Unity tutorial video, and the next day I decided to watch it, and now it's my new hobby. I've always liked programming since I was a kid, but now my favourite thing to do (in the programming space) is making games, and it was because of you. So once again, thank you. Thank you so much for making these amazing videos, Jonas.

  • @mathijsfrank9268
    @mathijsfrank9268 Před 2 měsíci +15

    Very insightful video. Honestly that tip on switching prototypes when 2 people are both happy with theirs is absolutely genius. Never heard of that before, but it just makes so much sense.

  • @Nik4ant
    @Nik4ant Před 2 měsíci +56

    Honestly, just thank you:
    - You and your channel (Funny/Educational videos + some parts of your personality I guess?)
    - Wowie game jams (One of the stepping stones on my gamedev journey)
    - Discord community (I'm not a native English speaker, yet was reviewing games in room with a lot of people)
    - WYS arg (I've learned CUDA programming and other stuff, met new people and still having a great time)
    I've learned a few things just from a gamedev process presented in a funny/interesting way (devlogs). Now you're giving us compacted knowledge in an easy to understand metaphore. I don't even know what else to ask for.
    Keep up the good work :D

  • @dwadthechad
    @dwadthechad Před 2 měsíci +5

    I've been waiting for a new video and I'm already so excited 10 seconds in. Honestly you rekindle my love for game dev and I can't thank you enough.

  • @NeverSink
    @NeverSink Před 2 měsíci +4

    This is one of the best game dev videos I've seen. Explores the problem space very well, provided great examples and solutions. We're working on our first steam game right now and I found it super helpful, thank you!

  • @brunokaiser3497
    @brunokaiser3497 Před 2 měsíci +3

    Absolutely amazing video. This has given me a completely different perspective on game dev. I'm suprised this topic (the search for the game) isn't more talked about and explored. Loved the addition of your own formulas.

  • @dagance
    @dagance Před 2 měsíci +2

    Man, you left me speechless. This video is invaluable. I'm amazed by how much knowledge and fundamental understanding you have and how you managed to pack all of this into a short video with such a great balance of abstract concepts and very understandable concrete examples. Thank you so much! I still need to process all of this tho, and rewatch video a few more times xD

  • @WhoovieCOD
    @WhoovieCOD Před 2 měsíci +6

    AMAZING analogy for really any creative pursuit, not just for game development. I've never made a game in my life but I can tell you I've used these exact same ideas within video making. Great video!

  • @rasuru_dev
    @rasuru_dev Před 2 měsíci +3

    One of the most valuable videos I've watched on CZcams. Made me realize creativity is a form of open ended problem solving. Thank you for sharing your insights

  • @ZahhibbDev
    @ZahhibbDev Před 2 měsíci +1

    This is honestly one of the most direct and sincere videos on game dev i've seen. You brought up some excellent points and ideas with great explanations to boot. Love it!

  • @dustwrites
    @dustwrites Před 2 měsíci

    This is the best video on this topic I have ever seen. Thank you so much for taking the time to put this all together.

  • @mr.crow6490
    @mr.crow6490 Před 2 měsíci +35

    What a phenomenal video. The boat with the search algorithm example was surprisingly coherent and a perfect fit for concepts of game design. It was very easy to follow and understand that I bet I can show this to someone who knows nothing about games in general and they would have a much better understanding at the end of it, that's how good this video was.
    Well done man, you have made one of the best game dev adjacent videos out there.

    • @Muskar2
      @Muskar2 Před 2 měsíci

      Casey Muratori first introduced me to development being very similar exploration. His frame of reference was contrasting it with bloated and slow codebases that dominate the software industry, and the SOLID dogma. But Jonas' version is much more constructive, transparent, pragmatic and beginner-friendly. Casey's talk (Where Does Bad Code Come From?) is much more like a rant.

    • @Soul_Cinema
      @Soul_Cinema Před 2 měsíci

      well said. i agree with you, mr. sunderland

  • @uheartbeast
    @uheartbeast Před 2 měsíci +4

    This is put so clearly, it's insane. Thanks Jonas.

  • @soyBorza
    @soyBorza Před měsícem +1

    This is phenomenal, very clear and cleverly explained. I will add it to the resources for my production course (and also to my own tool belt). Great content as always, Jonas!

  • @oxenryd
    @oxenryd Před 2 měsíci

    This is amazing!! Not only in game dev but in projects of most kinds. Shared, liked and life lessons learned!

  • @maltardraco9555
    @maltardraco9555 Před 2 měsíci +6

    I have completely ruined every game I have ever tried to make, experiencing those 4 red flags you mentioned every single time in that exact order and couldn't figure out why. Thank you for this.

  • @b4ux1t3-tech
    @b4ux1t3-tech Před 2 měsíci +15

    I am not saying this in any way to disparage this video, your work, or you. Just wanted to say that first, because the tone of my next sentence should be taken as a joke for the best effect:
    Congratulations, you have discovered software development life cycle fundamentals!
    Nearly everything you described is a part of the fundamentals of every approach to organized thinking around software development.
    It's the one part of game development I've never struggled with, because it's the part I've done for a living outside of the games industry!
    You're doing an excellent job, both in discovering these concepts independently and, more importantly, in communicating them effectively!
    AND, to be clear, a lot of big software development companies struggle with these concepts, so you're way ahead of the curve. ;)

    • @colbyboucher6391
      @colbyboucher6391 Před 2 měsíci +7

      Yep! Most indie game devs come from the creative world rather than the software world so it makes sense that project management isn't most people's strongsuit. But this guy seems to have figured it out on his own, so... he must be pretty good at it, I'd say.

    • @iruns1246
      @iruns1246 Před 2 měsíci +1

      Was that software development fundamentals? Most softwares are developed through waterfall method with a specific business needs (or rather wants) are given from the top. Then the dev team mostly just use existing parts and methods to fulfill that in mostly routine ways.
      Even with more agile development, the specifics of the "search algorithm" described here is VERY rarely used (at least in my experience). The emphasize is usually in exploring fast, not exploring in an optimized way.

    • @b4ux1t3-tech
      @b4ux1t3-tech Před 2 měsíci

      @@iruns1246 the "search algorithm" is a clever metaphor for the process of building software, that's all I mean.

    • @iruns1246
      @iruns1246 Před 2 měsíci +3

      @@b4ux1t3-tech I know, but the specific methods mentioned in the video aren't standard practice in software development. It's certainly not "fundamentals". AFAIK in my experience in software dev any way.
      There are definitive fundamentals like clean code, documentation, testing etc, but optimized exploration is not one of those.
      Most software development projects are using and remixing already established scripts and practices. VERY few includes "searching" for new stuff. And even when searching, it's rarely done in an optimized way.

  • @RugbugRedfern
    @RugbugRedfern Před 2 měsíci

    This is an excellent video jam packed with good advice! Thanks Jonas, can't wait to apply this!

  • @irgendjemand8221
    @irgendjemand8221 Před 2 měsíci

    I am speechless. This was what I was looking for for the last few weeks. And it had so much more good hints than I could have ever asked for. Thank you!

  • @damiankaleomontero496
    @damiankaleomontero496 Před 2 měsíci +3

    If you took out the game dev parts of this, it would feel like a lecture on machine learning lol. The first couple are obvious immediately, infinite search space is true for pretty much any "real world" problem, wrong reward function is just the alignment problem, etc.

  • @james-s-smith
    @james-s-smith Před měsícem +3

    Jonathan Blow has many talks about game development, and he uses the analogy of game design as a search algorithm fairly often. See e.g. his PRACTICE 2014 presentation, his talk "How and Why", his "Truth and Game Design" presentation, and especially his "Indie Prototyping" talk and IndieCade 2011 talk with Marc Ten Bosch, where the prototyping and exploration of design is discussed in detail.
    Your perspective is valuable though, because you are approaching this problem more as a businessman rather than an artist, and thus are much more concerned than Jon is about the cost of exploration. Jon is the kind of captain who will fly to different lakes around the world, and then when he finds one he likes, he'll rent out a submarine team to construct a 3D sonar map of the entire lake floor, and damn all the costs. For those of us more concerned with taking on debts in an inherently risky industry, your advice is much easier to follow.

  • @samyam
    @samyam Před 2 měsíci +1

    This was one of the best videos in game dev I've watched, great job and congrats on your success!

  • @nguyenyenchi4201
    @nguyenyenchi4201 Před 2 měsíci

    You just gained subscriber with this phenomenal work. Great articulation of thoughts and clear visuals. Will apply this knowledge on my own game dev journey. Thank you so much for sharing!

  • @thelastwaffle
    @thelastwaffle Před 2 měsíci +5

    This analogy is perfect. I really, really hope the algorithm pushes this because this video truly deserves it.

  • @geekworthy7938
    @geekworthy7938 Před 2 měsíci +8

    This is as German of an analysis as you will ever see.

  • @GamesBySaul
    @GamesBySaul Před 2 měsíci +2

    What an absolutely fantastic video! Thank you for putting the time into this, this is brilliant. I love your section on multiple captains and how to overcome it, as that is a hard a one, but I think what you suggested really is the best, let both captains explore their own idea more and see where it leads, or let each captain have a go of the other's ship to see what happens

    • @renakunisaki
      @renakunisaki Před 24 dny +1

      There's also "flip a coin, come back to the other spot later"

  • @gludion
    @gludion Před 21 dnem

    This vidéo = instant classic!! You brilliantly (and visually) articulate what I've personnaly experienced in game design (and creativity), including mistakes :D

  • @michaelmonstertoad2461
    @michaelmonstertoad2461 Před 2 měsíci +24

    Sure... You can get caught up and lose many hours of sleep thinking about search algorithms to calculate the optimal indie game. Or, you just make games because you want to create enjoyable games. And if you enjoy it, someone else probably will too.

    • @etrex5272
      @etrex5272 Před měsícem +6

      I think this is the way. At least for me. I've played my own game for hundreds of hours at this point and still have fun. It's easier to motivate myself to keep working on it due to this aswell. We'll see when it releases, but based on alpha feedback I'm not alone in enjoying it. 😊

    • @thedude6058
      @thedude6058 Před měsícem

      i keep thinking “god it would be so cool to have mirror’s edge in night city with cyberware” but i have no interest in game design

    • @thechugg4372
      @thechugg4372 Před 29 dny

      ​@@thedude6058ghostrunner exists already

    • @MagicGonads
      @MagicGonads Před 23 dny

      I also have to wonder, there are many issues with analysis, incentives, and scale that plague large games, and the benefit of indie games is that they lack them

  • @ganondorfchampin
    @ganondorfchampin Před měsícem +3

    Okay but I don’t want to make the best game, I want to make MY game.

    • @MqKosmos
      @MqKosmos Před 28 dny +3

      Then you don't test out anything besides if it's working until you're done.
      But unless you're all Knowing you should research what you yourself might like more as well

    • @renakunisaki
      @renakunisaki Před 24 dny +1

      As long as you can accept that it might not sell well.

  • @glennhamilton-smith3799
    @glennhamilton-smith3799 Před 2 měsíci

    This video is phenomenal. So well explained, amazing diagrams, great personality and concise yet detailed. Amazing work, thank you so much (:

  • @artdjesus6267
    @artdjesus6267 Před 2 měsíci +10

    Your game topics are always quality and vids are well-produced.

  • @Milan____
    @Milan____ Před 2 měsíci +20

    Yeah, luckily the multibillion corporation Epic Games DARED to mimic the most popular game genre of the era and leave their base building zombie survival tower defense action strategy part behind.

    • @9fran9rosatti9
      @9fran9rosatti9 Před 2 měsíci +5

      The big jump was development-wise, it's not easy to shift a game idea that much

    • @billmore6486
      @billmore6486 Před měsícem +2

      Your acting like it was obvious and simple. Look how many games copied the battle Royale genre and see how many are left after a couple of years.

    • @Milbyte11
      @Milbyte11 Před měsícem +5

      im still salty that they did that, i loved the original idea

    • @tiberiusalexander6339
      @tiberiusalexander6339 Před měsícem +1

      You can knock it, but it worked

    • @ftgodlygoose4718
      @ftgodlygoose4718 Před měsícem

      @@billmore6486Tbf a lot of games were hopping on the battle royal bandwagon after seeing the success of pubg. And given what we know about Epic Games it’s not surprising at all they’d ditch a project to hop onto the next more promising opportunity lol, they do it so much it’s a meme at this point.

  • @mkmyuu
    @mkmyuu Před 2 měsíci +8

    Copy + Paste "Promblem". Fast, but not accurate.

  • @jean-baptistedeclerfayt8288
    @jean-baptistedeclerfayt8288 Před 2 měsíci +3

    Amazing and super helpful video Jonas! It's a very original and powerful way of dealing with gamedesign! I love it! :)

  • @CameronKetcham
    @CameronKetcham Před měsícem

    Love it, there’s a lot of really great info here that’s useful not only for games, but also for most other software development as well!

  • @ImpreccablePony
    @ImpreccablePony Před měsícem +28

    I'm sorry but there's nothing wrong with making a clone of an existing successful game. Hell I would kill for a clone of let's say Sea Dogs. All you need to do to be better than Sea Dogs is just make it in 2024 instead of 2001 and voila. Not new but better.

    • @richardhall5489
      @richardhall5489 Před měsícem +3

      My friend would have said the same thing. I'm not sure ever had an original idea in his life. He looks at how the leading players in his industry do things and copies that. Very very successful.

    • @ImpreccablePony
      @ImpreccablePony Před měsícem +5

      @@richardhall5489 People who could not come up with a username without numbers but talk shit about others who are not original enough:

    • @Isabel-pw6zu
      @Isabel-pw6zu Před měsícem +4

      ​@@ImpreccablePonydamn calm down bro i dont think he was trying to say anything other than copying can be a successful strategy

    • @HonsHon
      @HonsHon Před 6 dny

      ​@@Isabel-pw6zuNo, you piece of shit. This is serious talk.
      Just kidding. It is getting heated in here lmao

    • @Atezian
      @Atezian Před 5 dny

      Why are you sorry?

  • @nangld
    @nangld Před 2 měsíci +6

    Making an indie game is expressing yourself and your ideas. So you search for the resources for that expression. It is not about the best, but about being understood correctly. AAA games are about just making product the people will buy. So AAA games don't express ideas, but instead monetize of the patriarchy's insecurities and crave for violence, offering men an illusion of being say an all powerful dictator or a serial killer.

    • @pingpenne9487
      @pingpenne9487 Před 2 měsíci +6

      Lady, 2016 was 8 years ago, it's not about the patriarchy.

    • @hamc9477
      @hamc9477 Před měsícem +2

      How does the game "Minesweeper" fit into this theory of yours?

  • @asila2652
    @asila2652 Před 2 měsíci

    Thanks so much Jonas! This was really helpful the best video on game design I’ve ever seen!!

  • @KousseilaMd
    @KousseilaMd Před 2 měsíci +1

    this is everything any gamedev needs/ wants to hear, i like ur visualization of the problems themselves and the solution etc this is widely helpful thanks for it bro

  • @geekworthy7938
    @geekworthy7938 Před 2 měsíci +10

    You have 185,000 CZcams subscribers! Why are you still trying to understand why your program did well? More subs more sales! That's all!

    • @finndotbin
      @finndotbin Před měsícem +3

      please, PLEASE, use critical thinking here

    • @geekworthy7938
      @geekworthy7938 Před měsícem +1

      ​@@finndotbin Sure! Your reply was useless.

    • @zokerino447
      @zokerino447 Před měsícem +1

      lmao go get 185k subs if you really can do that, and then DARE to promote YOUR OWN WORK on YOUR OWN CHANNEL.

    • @geekworthy7938
      @geekworthy7938 Před měsícem

      @@zokerino447 and?

    • @kingpiplup5258
      @kingpiplup5258 Před měsícem

      @@geekworthy7938name does not fit.
      His amazing feats are because of how he runs them. Telling him to stop trying to understand is like telling a successful businessman to stop looking at the numbers because he already owns a successful business. It just crashes and burns when you stop

  • @a327ex
    @a327ex Před 2 měsíci

    One of the best videos on the indie game development process that I've seen. You've put into words a lot of the intuition I've gained about making games over the years. Really good stuff, thank you!

  • @matthew.wilson
    @matthew.wilson Před dnem

    "Design is a search algorithm."
    This is why the best design and "creativity" so often feels like discovery of something existing. Our Engineering Design professor told us design was near impossible to teach because there was no single road map, but you've hit the nail on the head: That lack of map is the point; Design is a search. Thank you.

  • @frogrammer7954
    @frogrammer7954 Před 2 měsíci

    man i love this video. i have nothing to add or to ask, the analogy is so good too. thank you!

  • @joyfulfishman5445
    @joyfulfishman5445 Před 21 dnem

    This one of the best videos I've ever seen... you're a genius Jonas, thank you so much!

  • @PhoenixHO
    @PhoenixHO Před 2 měsíci

    I love this video so much, and I noticed these strategies work not only for game development, but for a multitude of other domains. Thank you for making this video!

  • @DemsW
    @DemsW Před 2 měsíci +6

    I don't always agree with what you put out, but this one seemed like a very good and fresh approach to a very common problem, great video.

  • @Laumania
    @Laumania Před 2 měsíci

    Really great way of explaining and coming with suggestions for solutions - great video Jonas!

  • @Zomni_Z
    @Zomni_Z Před 10 dny

    I LOVE THIS! Fantastic content, thank you :)

  • @Divinythor
    @Divinythor Před 2 měsíci

    This may be the best video on game design I've ever seen. I learned a lot in these 15 minutes. Thank you for that. 💜

  • @falkono
    @falkono Před 2 měsíci +4

    you are one of the best game dev youtubers out there please never stop

  • @kytran5884
    @kytran5884 Před 2 měsíci

    Great video and presentation, thank you! Always good to keep these in mind. No one is immune to these pitfalls

  • @KalleBowo
    @KalleBowo Před 2 měsíci

    Damn, that was a really good presentation! The analogy with the ship works just so damn well, very good job there!

  • @ImaginaryComponent
    @ImaginaryComponent Před 2 měsíci +5

    This is one of the best videos on the specific topic I've ever seen.

  • @Rel3D
    @Rel3D Před 2 měsíci

    Great advice from someone with success under their belt. Thank you for the invaluable knowledge and advice! Keep up the great work!

  • @derschildertyp3985
    @derschildertyp3985 Před 2 měsíci

    This might be the best video on indie game dev I've ever watched. Thank you! Keep doing what you're doing, you're amazing.

  • @ryanzollinger
    @ryanzollinger Před 2 měsíci

    I love the return of these little game dev video essays, they’re super informative and fun to watch!

  • @sssaharov
    @sssaharov Před 2 měsíci

    Fantastic video! You pointed out my mistakes on my years of gamedev journey and showed the way to fix them, so thank you

  • @rfmei
    @rfmei Před 2 měsíci

    Loved this! That's a great way to think about and visualize design work in general, not only game design

  • @HakanBacon
    @HakanBacon Před měsícem

    This is so informative with all your personal experiences sprinkled lef and right. This is lovely

  • @GabrielVeda
    @GabrielVeda Před 2 měsíci

    That was amazing. Kind of blown away. Thank you!

  • @niuage
    @niuage Před 2 měsíci +1

    You absolutely nailed it there mate. The content is top notch but also entertaining to watch.

  • @azulcrescent715
    @azulcrescent715 Před 2 měsíci

    Thank you. This is an amazing video on the process of making a game, so thanks for sharing all of these.

  • @starmapsllc
    @starmapsllc Před 2 měsíci +1

    This is genuinely a phenomenal video, probably your most useful to date

  • @sisko89
    @sisko89 Před 2 měsíci

    This is pure gold, thank you so much for sharing!

  • @absence9443
    @absence9443 Před měsícem +1

    Helps heavily with game design decisions, excited to see your next project :)

  • @zixisnotavailable
    @zixisnotavailable Před 2 měsíci +1

    I really love this boat concept! it really helps understanding the problems and solutions in game dev with a boat analogy. I'm gonna send this video to my game design lecture from a Uni i used to study and hopefully they use it for classes.

  • @flythereddflagg
    @flythereddflagg Před 2 měsíci

    Very helpful thank you for putting this out on the interwebs!

  • @umutfarukdilli
    @umutfarukdilli Před měsícem

    Just amazing bro, thanks for the video

  • @tonas3843
    @tonas3843 Před 2 měsíci +1

    This channel is such an amazing channel for game developers / designers, one of the best channels out of the 800+ channels I'm subscribed to. Love all the insights, the speed and pacing of the video is just perfect and very very interesting topics. Love everything!

  • @Yolwoocle
    @Yolwoocle Před 2 měsíci

    Incredible video. The title was completely true for me, it allowed me to discover some things I was doing wrong. Top marks

  • @papafhill9126
    @papafhill9126 Před 2 měsíci

    This is such a fun and creative way to walk through your thought on game dev. Amazing.

  • @henningKO
    @henningKO Před 2 měsíci

    A really well thought-out couple of extended analogies! This is gamedev greatness, Jonas, well done.

  • @iblackpen
    @iblackpen Před 2 měsíci

    Very well explained information that I didn't know I needed. Thank you for this video!

  • @Simon_Laserna
    @Simon_Laserna Před 2 měsíci

    Love the analogy to search algorithm, and using boats investigating fish & depth. Very solid advice, and well crafted communication of that advice. Thank you for putting this together, and sharing your knowledge!

  • @yigithanion
    @yigithanion Před 2 měsíci

    Your educational videos are priceless! I come back and watch them again occasionally.

  • @catastic9394
    @catastic9394 Před měsícem

    Love the ship analogy, great way to explain everything!

  • @cheaterman49
    @cheaterman49 Před 2 měsíci +1

    You singlehandedly earned my subscription, in a single sub-30 mins video, and that's quite the achievement, congratulations and thanks for all the awesome tips :-)

  • @evanhenderson9461
    @evanhenderson9461 Před 2 měsíci +2

    This is the pinnacle of teaching. You've really mastered the difference between a lecturer and a mentor. Reminds me of when I had a swim coach in high school that taught me stuff all of my other coaches should have 5 years earlier. Fantastic work.

  • @RealRodey
    @RealRodey Před měsícem

    I watched the whole video and it was all worth my time. Thanks, Jonas!

  • @irusu.
    @irusu. Před měsícem

    Wow this is really insightful stuff, subbed

  • @studiologixgames
    @studiologixgames Před 2 měsíci

    honestly this video was real eye opener for me, thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge with us all

  • @jeromezenker1300
    @jeromezenker1300 Před 2 měsíci

    One of the best game dev videos I saw in a really long time!
    I work for a publisher & as a tutor and this will be for sure be send to more developers :D Amazing video & love the comparisons

  • @High-Tech-Geek
    @High-Tech-Geek Před 2 měsíci

    love your methodology and your boat metaphor. Thanks for this!

  • @TorQueMoD
    @TorQueMoD Před 2 měsíci

    This is a seriously fantastic analogy. Thanks so much for sharing :)

  • @RglMrn
    @RglMrn Před 2 měsíci

    Sick video. Honestly, great work.

  • @diamonds8014
    @diamonds8014 Před 2 měsíci

    Wow that was an amazing video essay! Absolutely dense with useful advice 💪

  • @DannyDeer
    @DannyDeer Před 2 měsíci

    Thank you for the knowledge Jonas 🙏