Another LAGGY Collection! Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Cowabunga Collection Rant / Review
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- Another LAGGY Collection! Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Cowabunga Collection Rant / Review. It's that time of the year again friends and lovers, the new rom collection port that will get critical praise and we get to read how the collection helped reviewers connect to their childhoods once again. Neat. This time around Konami is bringing us (in strategic release next to TMNT Shredder's Revenge) the Cowabunga Collection. I am a big fan of a few of the games in this collection, like Turtles in Time (who isn't) but ultimately someone needs to ask the question of do we need to buy these games yet again, especially in such a laggy form? As I've learned doing these reviews, there are those who don't seem to mind what level of input lag these developers inflict on their customers, and to these people all I can think to say is ... seek help. There is no good reason why performance in these mammoth collection needs to be so awful, other than sheer low expectations. If the devs couldn't get away with high input lag, they'd fix this issue. So this is why, once again, I am focusing in on this problem, even if it makes me the black sheep of retro reviews. This game is on Nintendo Switch, PS4 / PS5, and Xbox.
Included in the Cowabunga Collection, for the sake of SEO are:
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Arcade),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time (Arcade),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (NES),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game (NES),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III: The Manhattan Project (NES),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Tournament Fighters (NES),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV: Turtles in Time (Super Nintendo),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Tournament Fighters (Super Nintendo), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Hyperstone Heist (Sega Genesis),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Tournament Fighters (Sega Genesis),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Fall of The Foot Clan (Game Boy),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: Back From The Sewers (Game Boy),
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III: Radical Rescue (Game Boy).
Awesome thumbnail created by @boghog
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#cowabungacollection, #review, #teenagemutantninjaturtles - Hry
Think the most infuriating thing about emulation collections like these is it misconstrues people's value of what matters. Instead of focusing how well crafted the emulation is they only look at how many games are thrown in and some gimmicky crap like 3D menus. Lost count of how many times I see people complain an M2 release with one or two games was not worth the $30 or $40 price tag despite the fact they're some of the best game preservationists in the business right now.
Oh that s a great point! Yes it does throw off people s perception of value. Like they buy garegga 2016 (one of the greatest ports ever) and they're like wow where are the 3d menus and cartoon screenshots, how bare bones.
People don't recognise the value of proper porting and emulation AKA quality, unfortunately. They only measure value in terms of the number of new features, or quantity. So they end up surprised when they find out quality doesn't come cheap.
Speaking of M2 though, their Toaplan Garage releases starts to feel a little more quantity over quality. Of course they still have the accurate emulation and gadgets, but they aren't doing special things like arrange modes anymore. Instead, they're throwing in a bunch of console ports. Well, it is certainly in the name of game preservation, but it does feel a little cheap compared to their first ShotTriggers releases, I feel.
This is unfortunately true and why we see so many sub-par retro ports onto modern consoles.
The franchise sells itself and the average gamer who has fond memories of burning quarters looks at a $40 price-tag and thinks he’s getting a steal on a cheap folder of ROMs with fancy packaging.
You can take that $40, put it towards any cheap emulation machine like a Vita or Raspberry Pi and get a better experience than this.
And when games like the Castlevania Anniversary Collection gets released people complain about it not having rewind
Yeah, I was waiting for someone to lag test these games before I dropped ANY cash on them. I saw all the positive reviews, but the mainstream media lost my trust a long time ago. The fact none of these outlets who review games for profit even thought to lag test the games is just shameful.
It's a weird attitude that modern devs have about input lag, it's just a thing baby, so unless it's insanely high, to bring it up in a review is kind of dirty or something ha.
They probably honestly did not notice. I myself have sometimes not noticed how bad input lag was until I figured out ti was there and fixed it and suddenly found myself playing much better. The guys reviewing this I doubt are even really big action gamers.
Thanks for uploading this man. I kept seeing people talk about how this is "the best retro collection ever!" and I thought to myself how I've been burned too many times by those claims to buy it day 1. I was hoping that you'd end up making it video since you and Shmup Junkie are the only people I know who give these emulated collections the attention they need...and lo and behold, you did! I just wish you came bearing better news, lol.
Yeah I know right, I saw some of those claims and I just didn't see how that was possible ha. Having an assortment of games is cool and all, but the TMNT library isn't exactly bursting with heavy hitters, I like turtles in time SNES but the rest of the games are average at best. The capcom beat em up collection has a stronger line up I would say. But yeah, I think if you see a smaller port or collection, you might get better performance. But it always seems to be the more stuff they start piling in, the more input lag seems to pile up. Probably because they are trying a bunch of different games that require different types of emulation.
Thank you for this brutally honest take. I remember buying the Metal Slug Anthology for PS2 and the lag made these games unplayable. We should know better but it's always about pursuing that nostalgia acid trip down memory lane when we got all those awesome games in the first time and could waste entire days in front of the tv in our pajamas. We don't have that free time anymore so clicking on that buy now button is like taking the blue pill. No excuse for the mainstream gaming press though. Cheers!
No problem! Yes, Metal Slug Anthology broke my black gamer heart. I was never the same XD I got it so excited (being a massive metal slug fan) thinking, wow this is too good to be true, and it literally was. The lag on that thing is a wickedness.
"Everyone has a SNES."
Uh, not sure about that.
This stuff is for people who've no access for it otherwise. Sure, they might be overpriced or run poorly but saying everyone could just get and play the console versions is a stretch imo.
I suppose I should amend that to, "everyone has a *way* to play snes" if you know what I am getting at.
@@TheElectricUnderground Ah yes, I can get behind that. I do get you. lol
Tribvtes from Germany. I just love this channel man. Keep continuing.
Cello! Thanks so much my friend!
Thank you for calling this stuff out! More "reviewers" need to do this. Input lag is a plague and more often than not I see people including friends of mine saying they don't notice it. I try the same game and I'm like Eeeeuughh! This is horrible! I'm glad M2 exists because they actually have standards when it comes to input lag and try their best to eliminate it. (Mini consoles aside)
A couple of crits though:
> Please list what system you're testing on because input lag varies between consoles at times.
> Also part of why I buy these collections is for the extras instead of the game ROMs. It's overly cynical to say people don't want the production material scans or manuals etc. I find it interesting/entertaining to have that stuff included especially if I don't own CIB copies of those games, which even as someone who collects games are hard to come by without paying out a lot of money.
No problem my dude!!!
Respect for being brutally honest and not contributing to the obvious astroturfing with half-assed collections like these. It's clear that they only pander to nostalgia-heads and impulse-buyers, even though everyone who knows a thing or two about emulation on PC/Pi/MiSTer has been able to enjoy these games for years. I've always been wary of Digital Eclipse and I see that nothing much has changed lmfao
Yeah something is up with Digital Eclipse, in that I think they have some very generous industry connections. For example they had a guest appearance on an ign talk show, it's odd. I don't see IGN inviting M2 onto their talk show. czcams.com/video/QkyxirDffIw/video.html
I feel like at this point, this kind of info has to be displayed at least on the online shop, like it should display the framerate the game will run, the resolutions, and ESPECIALLY the input lag, i'm getting so tired of people having to fiddle with annoying metrics and equipment just to give people the chance to make a more informed purchasing decision, when the devs have to be the ones informing people of this kind of make or break stuff.
I agree! Yeah it absolutely sucks because other than my own channel, I rarely can know how a game performs because reviews are not going to bring this information to the consumer. And the only times reviews will mention input lag as an issue is when it is out of control high ha.
Yeah it's a great idea, and in an ideal world where people bought these things in order to actually play them more than 5mins it might happen. Problem is, again, that nobody besides a bunch of geeks like us really cares :(
I actually think MLIG and the like are counterproductive at getting most regular players to care about input lag. Like what they get out of their vids is how people who care about lag have to buy 500$ worth of equipment (or a giant CRT) to play a game, so they stop caring, not realizing they can have almost the same experience on whatever computer they're watching that video on.
That is true, it does seem like the input lag issue was more of a fringe benefit rather than a primary focus. I personally love emulation (I talk about it all the time on the channel), but the emulation needs to be quality, especially with input lag. Corporate emulation, for whatever reason, gets held to this really light standard though where it can be unresponsive and awful, and yet excuse after excuse is made.
I love these rants! Keep em coming!
4:12 is when I subbed to this channel. Holy shit, THANK YOU! For those of us that experienced original hardware on CRT, we know firsthand how awful input lag is (as well as shit motion on flatscreens). And no one except a few niche folks cover it anymore.
I'm getting tired of the gaming industry these days. They not only plan on re-selling the same games over and over again, but they plan on doing that with the laziest tactics, resulting in lazy compilations/remakes/reissues. They can't see a new gaming system coming out that it's time to refuel the cycle of re-releases.
And gaming journalism is pretty much dead, they're basically marketing sectors nowadays.
Yes agree completely. You wanna job kid, go sling some warmed over roms from 20 years ago, that s how you move up in the industry ha
I can't believe they're still selling PS2 ports for $60. In some cases such as with Nintendo, they'll release lazy 16bit sprite crap like Triangle Strategy for $60 & it'll still sell over a million copies. It's not a good tactics game either, it's fairly brainless & doesn't have permadeath but it's what modern "strategy" fans love. Strat games with zero strategy.
Thank you for this information. Keeping it real!
I hope someone will make a website with lists of all lag tested games.
The intro cracked me up!
For those that do not understand the problem with lag. A simple description:
The more lag a game has, the shorter you will play the game. You perhaps do not understand why you gave up so soon
I do have my lag database, but an entire website dedicated to the gathering of this info would be amazing. theelectricundergr.wixsite.com/the-electric-undergr/blank-2
Oh boy! Now I’m curious. I honestly didn’t pick this up as I’ve got the original games for most and endless ways to play them. But this can’t possibly be Cotton Tribute levels of delay can it? 😮 Let’s find out.
nope. cotton saturn is unplayable
Junkie this is a vid you won't want to miss XD
@@TheReki007 that's bs. City Connection updated it with a patch
@@dangunheadachron1603 yes, with about 1-1,5 frames. This is still too much.
@@dangunheadachron1603 They only lowered the lag by 1 or 2 frames, it was still horrendously bad. I sold my physical Switch copy after the patched dropped.
Lol, the beginning of your video was awesome. There will always be people who love the lag. Off point - would you consider sharing with us your all-time favorite non-shmup games?
I'm glad you liked it!! That intro took forever to put together cuz I don't have fancy software, so i manually placed the images frame by frame. Favorite non shmup games, I'll just fire off some that pop into mind: Ninja Gaiden 2 (xbox 360), Resident evil 4, metal gear solid 3, hitman blood money, fight n rage, metal slug, starcraft brood war, golden eye, pokemon red, harvest moon 64, super metroid, that seems like a fun selection :-)
Thanks for this review. I've been surprised by how many reviewers that I generally watch completely ignore the input lag. They rave about the extras way too much.
It's a real slight of hand. Wave the cartoon screenshots with the right, slip in the input lag with the left ha. I do think there is a blind spot where performance is under-valued (honestly an after thought) and bonuses are way over valued. Like are we all really going to be scrolling through box art scans more than once ha.
I'd be worried if I couldn't notice 8 frames of input lag hahahahaha.
I was going to pick this up at release but never did, too many other games about and I have most of the originals except the arcade ones. I recently came across your channel and really appreciate the in-depth reviews and lag tests, which should be mandatory for any emulation collection. I’ll definitely take this off my wish list now and won’t bother.
I do admit that casually I enjoyed the arcade game collections back in the day like Taito, Tecmo, and Midway due to the game selection. Extra bonuses seem to be the cream of the crops like interviews to shine light on the creation process.
With M2 games being the shining example of having “definitive improved” editions from original release, some would think to take the plunge like them, but more preservation types go towards a game and extras boutique since it’s more cost effective for volume.
Unless more developers take the route similar to M2 with definitive improved editions that impact all audiences, including casuals and more dedicated players, the presentation fluff boutique will still be the way to go until then.
Your review rant is very funny, and wished that you did more in depth comparison on the menu navigation to find out what you mean by unnecessary fluff.
Yes i love the M2 model of putting together ports, you can tell they are true passion projects, rather than mandated by publishers or whatever ha.
@@TheElectricUnderground Ah...
Now that I searched a video that showcases non playable extras called the "Turtles' Lair", I wonder if meddling through search system seems fun?
czcams.com/video/DWKqrlahg1U/video.html
You missed using the search navigation system to make proof of a "bloated collection fluff"
Cheers mate for making the video, I preordered this since I have good memories of the arcade and the rest were just extras. I'm extremely sad to hear about the input lag however so I'll have to keep an eye out on who handles the release.
Keep up the good work, truth hurts but hey I'd rather know the truth than be in the dark.
Excellent attitude my friend :-)
There is one more thing that the arcade version of Turtles in Time does that is incredibly cruel - if you're in a level for more than 5 minutes and haven't died, the game drops a bomb with no warning right on top of you that kills you instantly. The reason they put it in is probably to reset the machine if a player goes AFK, but it also shows that they clearly did not intend for people to 1CC the game in the first place. You can technically dodge the bomb, but you'd need to know exactly when it drops and jump out of the way. It makes a 1CC of an extremely difficult game damn near impossible.
Part of me thinks that the jank combat that punishes players who spam the attack button was an intentional decision to suck up as many quarters as possible.
Yeah ha I ran into that trying to lag test ha, kept getting bombs dropped on me
yooo That intro was too funny lol
It's so ridiculous that we need to get THIS FAR after a game's release and so many glowing reviews to actually find out if the emulation is worth a damn. It's like reading endless positive reviews for an awesome new car, buying it and then finding out it actually has square wheels. I had this on my wishlist because I'd read the reviews and (stupidly) assumed that input lag was good because even though they didn't specifically call it out, they did cite the quality emulation numerous times (you know what they say about ASSuming). I read that Digital Eclipse were asked about the lag and their response was something along the lines of "We didn't notice any". My dudes, just measure it if you're really that oblivious FFS!!
I actually really like these retro re-releases so this really pisses me off. I play a bunch of them on PC with a low lag VRR display, bust out the Hori RAP and slap on a Reshade CRT filter and honestly have a great time. If a collection is laggy or has poor emulation, I'll pick it up on a big discount and actually pull the ROMs out to use in Retroarch (yes, I understand to a lot of people this is a pretty odd stance to take but it is what it is). Just out of interest, I like to take some basic lag measurements myself.
Nice review, Mark, thanks.
That is actually what inspired me to do the review. I wasn't too interested in the collection since these games have been around forever, but when I saw how high the review scores were I was curious, and oh boy it's like turning over a rock and finding a bunch of roaches underneath.
Thank God someone said it! love the videos and honesty. A shining beacon of light in the gaming community.
Thanks so much nano! Yeah I know the feeling of staring at this horrible mess and then everyone around you is declaring it a masterpiece. That's why I chose pleasentville for the little intro, reminds me of that movie so much.
I don't understand the frustration people have at mentioning frame delay, it's info I want to know to make an informed decision.
Just glad someone mentions it. It's info I can use that isn't declared, that helps me make my own purchase decision.
So keep going strong!! Someone's gotta do it
Exactly my brother!
Dude. That intro was perfect. Also->"Reviews, they're just advertising at this point." 👍
That intro is my fav i've done on the channel so far ha. The damn thing took about 2 hours to edit by the end (jeez). Also yes the sublimation of the reviewer into an unofficial (sometimes official) marketer has been a nasty one. These days I'm not even sure if most reviewers can bring themselves to do a negative review of a mainstream product.
For comparison, I found through a google search that the recently released Capcom Fighting Collection has about 4 frames of lag at worst on Sony consoles, and 3 frames of lag on Xbox/PC. The FGC has done a good job educating players about the importance of responsive gameplay, hopefully the same can be done for the audience of these single player retro action games.
That is a great point! Because the FGC mafia (and I say that with fondness) will hunt you down if you make their ports laggy, devs are more careful with the fighting game ports in terms of input lag. If only shmups and general arcade games had the same influence, then I'm sure we'd start seeing better ports.
3 frames is okay, 4 is getting there. I’m surprised the fgc didn’t flame that as hard.
The fighting game collection is actually lower than 3 frames on PC, from what I've read. Only one game has 3 frames. The rest is like 1-2 frames at most. It's actually insane how close they are to original hardware accurate.
@@CKarasu13 ohhh on pc. Okay that’s cool. I’m a switch player so I got lag (though I’m the one who chose the switch version so partly my fault) rip :(
I enjoy your rants :D
Good times!
This is the first time I bought a collection. I’m satisfied with it.
Contra collection went on sale so I’m buying that next.
I think at this point we understand that mainstream reviewers rarely test for input lag unless it is egregious enough for them to sense the delay in normal gameplay, and many of them do not regularly play the originals to have a benchmark sense in mind. It's good people like you point it out, but I also don't think it's surprising why the collection was rated highly. The collection does include a lot of smaller features that do not often get included in others. Perhaps that's more of a problem with the other collections, but it still does stand out with the feature set. This is also in the context where the average collection is lucky to include a gallery and two or three screen filters at best. standards are admittedly low.
And I dont know if you've checked retro prices recently but many of these games are very expensive lol. Older turtles games have had some lackluster ports included as secret inclusions within other TMNT games (like how the gamecube tmnt titles included the old Arcade game), but aside from that most of these games have been in licensing purgatory since Konami just sat on them. I own several of the originals but I picked them up around 10 years ago. Even just a cart of Hyperstone Heist can be tough to get for under $100 now, and then you have to have either a crt or some upscaler/linedoubler to actually make your genesis look halfway decent. So the only realistic options for newcomers in 2022 is either emulate on a pc, or buy a collection. I definitely agree lag could have been lessened. I just very much disagree about this being an "unnecessary collection." Several of these games have largely been only available on their original hardware, and i would sound like a crazy gatekeeper if I told someone to spend triple digits to get turtles in time, or a few hundred on a MiSTer setup. Retro has sadly priced a lot of people out nowadays.
Sweet, I was wondering where I was going to find the $40 for Sol Cresta! Thanks!
Seriously though, while 6 frames is on the upper end of what I can comfortably play, it's frustrating that it wasn't even a point of discussion for the average review. If a small operation like Evercade can produce better emulation than you with collections going for half the price and running on grossly inferior hardware, you're probably doing something wrong. I'm down with all the extras because celebrating the history and legacy of these games is something an official collection should do, but not at the cost of core game quality.
I bought the collection just for the original TMNT and I’m satisfied.
I never played TMNT 2: The Arcade Game on NES and it was nice to have.
I’m also glad to have Turtles in Time as well as all the other games in a convenient package.
I posted a video about the online lag and input lag and most people seem to just not care and make fun of me lol. Good video man. You are spot on with a lot of points.
I feel your pain my brother, yeah there's this really strange attitude toward lag for a lot of people where they'd rather not know ha XD Even if they are suffering gameplay wise.
@@TheElectricUnderground for sure. It is really odd haha. Keep up the good work man.
Thanks for this heads-up about the intolerable amount of input lag. I appreciate that, cause I was about to splurge the cash for the TMNT collection.
Happy to help!!
Great video this! I was just almost roped in to buying a collection from SLG and just couldnt bring myself to with no guarantee of technical superfluousity..... Cheers TEU! M2STG only ;()
Great take on this collection. i hate those things ended up this way on this collection release.
I know right, especially since emulation of these games has been so rock solid for so long, it makes the difference in lag look silly
Thank you for the review. I must confess that i pre-ordered it for the PS5 as i was excited for some games i never tried before, but since i received it, i barely played any of the games 😅(i received too many games in the same week). But for the very limited time i played, i didn't notice such input lag; there was a little update (like 50 MB), so maybe it was improved on the PS5 ? or i didn't play enough to notice it, as i didn't try Turtles in Time nor Hyperstone Heist.
Thank you for the honest review!
Thank you for tuning in my friend! Hopefully I helped keep some money in your wallet :-)
I love how you focus on actual gameplay instead of nonsense. Breathe of fresh air!
Absolutely my brother
Thank you for saying every single thing you said.
No problem my friend, I thought I'd try a new approach this time around and hammer the message home with a battering ram.
LOL I watched this and couldn't help looking over my Castlevania and Contra collections sitting on my shelf. Good point.
Hey I've been there myself many times, it's something we all struggle with ha.
@@TheElectricUnderground the most bizarre for me is that I own most of those games in their original form already. 😅 Maybe I'm missing the Gameboy games, or the Japanese release of Hard Corps, but still this requires some deep analysis on what tick is retro gamers.
Thank you very much for your honest thoughts on the matter! I don't understand or I don't trust all positive reviews for one game, it seems the majority of site is fearing to express something that goes against the mass... That's why by the way I don't trust anymore "those" sites in the video intro...
that is exactly right, their loyalties do not lie with the players, they lie with the industry.
I would love to know what these games are DOING for all those frames of lag. I mean, the most basic game loop has you checking controller input, running the game logic, drawing to a back buffer and then waiting for vsync to swap them. This means worst case you press a button IMMEDIATELY after the input was polled and so you have to wait for the current frame to draw, wait for vsync then wait for the next frame to draw and vsync/buffer swap again. That is literally the least amount of effort you can expend on a video game logic loop and it gives you maximum 2 frames.
I understand that modern consoles seem to take the output of the game and hold it for another frame, probably for integration into their own interfaces, recording... whatever. So 3 frames.
So what are they doing for the extra 3-5? Maybe the game decides it's going to buffer an extra frame so it can blend frames for some temporal filter? Maybe it is trying to do controller input smoothing? Are they maybe doing all this then sending the result into Unity for lazy cross platform support adding Unity's lag on top? I don't know.
So yes, I understand that getting lag down really low is non-trivial in an emulation scenario. RetroArch didn't get where it got overnight and quite frankly many emulator coders had to be taught they were doing it wrong before low lag became a reasonable expectation. But 6? That's a "take it back and try again" level of "you failed."
I wish I could try these collections out before I buy them. Because I think lag is something that effects some games and some people more than others. But I never know how much lag will effect me in a certain game until I try it myself. However we I agree that it’s really irritating that these companies can’t seem to get it right. It really incentivizes just emulating these hsmes
That s a lot of what I say in the review, they just slap together whatever add a bunch of random crap and 9/10
Honestly I wish there was some kind of database that compares the performance and differences between every release of every game, so people could easily make informed decisions on how to play them their preferred way
yes me too, the best I know of is my own database theelectricundergr.wixsite.com/the-electric-undergr/blank-2
I bought this on PS4 and I'm not sensing 6 frames of input lag, and YES, I am one of those people who WOULD sense 8 frames of input lag. That's why I refused, and still refuse, to buy the Sega Saturn tribute games, and the Layer Section/Galactic Attack re-release. Of course I don't have the fancy computer equipment to test this for myself, but I'm not feeling it. What console were you testing this on? I never played Tournament Fighters, nor the Gameboy games so I'm going to be getting to those in due time and am anxious to play them. I DON'T have a modded NES, SNES, or Genesis, but I DO have a Retrobit Super Retro Trio with all 3 flash carts. Now I'm going to have to fire these games up on there just to see if I can feel any kind of input lag differences. As far as all the extras go, I actually like going through them, to me it's kind of neat, so I AM happy with my purchase. If you want to talk about a franchise they want us to purchase 100 times, talk about Pac-Man. And it doesn't matter how many times they put out a Pac-Man collection, they NEVER put Jr. Pac-Man or Puc-One/Mazeman on it and that's why I'm done with Pac-Man.
I d test the PS4 version but I am not buying the damn collection again ha. I would imagine the PS4 version shaves a frame down to 5, as that is usually how it works
I own a lot of these originals.
I find the hype of lag to be hype.
I recommend the collection…
Reverse hype I think would be a better description, disappointment
Keep posting these reviews, it saves me money from buying crappy ports.
That s the goal! So that when people go to buy the game, they at least have some warning what the game actually performs like. Rather then me spending a review talking about what pizza I liked as a kid (thin crust, btw)
Konami adding more frames than an art museum.
3x the amount of frames! That's a lot of extra content if you think about it XD
Ha, good one.
Haha, I got the Switch version as well and I was seriously doubting myself as to me some of the games felt really laggy, but no review (even from some writers that often seem to know what they're talking about) mentioned anything about it and went on about how it's the new standard for compilations. Luckily I still have my Turtles in Time and Tournament Fighters carts and those are my favs anyway.
I think writers are generally giving up on discussing input lag, even the well intentioned ones. For the most part people are blase about the subject so it doesn't reward you with much industry goodwill or even goodwill among new viewers. People not only like to be told what they want to hear, but the environment of youtube is that they don't even respect an alternate opinion ha. If you have a different take than the 100 other people in the alg, something is WRONG WITH YOU.
@@TheElectricUnderground Yeah, that could very well be it.
someones gotta do the dirty work! thanks for the review! i dont play turtles games but I appreciate the service!
Digital Eclipse? No man, thanks. I remember Street Fighter Aniversary Collection and Samurai Shodown Collection, that has not just a lot of imput lag, but fu** up resolution problems, audio glitches and amature UI. Everything just feels so lazy and cheap. But hey, the menus are beautiful, lots of concept arts, 9 out of 10.
I admit that I purchased the SamSho collection (on sale). I was hesitant, because it was Digital Eclipse who developed it, but it was a drastic price reduction, and it was a Samurai Shodown collection, which is very rare.
That really is what it comes down to. Just make sure the car's paint is fresh and polished ... nevermind the busted engine inside.
Where was this intervention before I bought the collection? Now I have to live with it. Besides the Game Boy games I have never played the originals before. And while I have fun with the collection so far I felt smth was off and now I know what. I really wish I had know about the input lag beforehand, then I would probably tried to hunt down PCBs for the two arcade games, b/c besides the nostalgia for the three GB games I like those two the most and was mostly hyped about them.
Oh ballz I was too late :-( that sucks my friend. I d say sell it used but you can t even do that much anymore with digital copies ugh
Even IF the collection ran flawlessly (no audio, visual or input problems) the $40 price-tag is insulting. Everyone had so much hype for this collection, ignoring any possible concerns and pre-ordering their money away.
I do not give a crap about digital “goodies” that artificially inflate the price. I just want to play the games and have a good experience that’s as close to the original as possible. That shouldn’t be too much to ask for seeing as we have *free* and working emulation software on everything from consoles to Androids.
There should be no complaints about a $40 emulation package for SNES/NES/GB. These platforms had have near-perfect emulation on multiple platforms for many years.
Heck, I can play all but the arcade ROMs on my Vita, Series S and PC with near perfect emulation and low lag.
Glad I saved my money on this one and didn’t buy into the hype. On the bright side, I’m very pleased with the new Turtles game. It runs so good on the Series S/Switch and is exactly like what I’d expect from a TiT successor.
Yeah the price is pretty damn brutal for essentially 3 quality games that have been easy to get forever ha.
I passed on this purchase based on this review. Thanks for always telling it like it is and making great content.
I also remembered these peps did the mega man collections. While very cool looking collections with UI and some special features, those collection have lag too for NES games! I can still bear it but there is always a bit of a learning curve again to get use to the lag. Also yes mark I do boot up the psikyo switch collection every month or two but that’s only because I haven’t learned mame yet :(
Oh my yes I got burned so hard on the megaman x collection. I was so excited for that release (since I didn't have a ps1 at the time, I do now) and dear got the lag was out of control.
@@TheElectricUnderground The lag in mega man x is some of the worst I have ever felt. It's so bad certain moves, like instant dash jumps, are nearly impossible. At least for me. But DE did the porting work on the nes games. Capcom did the porting for X collection IIRC. Both ports are garbage though. I haven't tested instant slide jumps in the nes mega man games DE ported but the legacy collection has confirmed shitloads of lag.
@@TheElectricUnderground I usually don't care that much about lag but Jesus Christ, the SNES games on the collection felt awful. I remember failing simple jumps over and over again in X1 because the timing for dash jump was all messed up and you couldn't just hold down dash to trigger it in that game.
Showering Konami with praise allows them to get away with delivering sub standard Digital Eclipse collections. It doesn't bode well for the future.
Don't feed the Konami, it will bite you the second you turn your back on it ha.
I don't get who those collections are even made for - 6 frames of input lag? One savestate slot? Laggy 3D menus that look like they're made in Unity?
There's just so much collections like his lately - we've seen times where to fix issues and make rereleases worthwhile, entire games were remade from ground up, like some of those 3D NES games (Kirby's Adventures having all of it's infamous lag removed). Sure, those weren't perfect and still quite pricey, but at least they had *something* to offer. But this?
Hilarious intro, by the way, brilliant job.
yeah I think there is some kind of memo going around where devs think, "ok, no need for any additional gameplay content, all we need to do is through in random bonus fluff and cute menus." Meanwhile in the old days nintendo would have to re draw their entire games to justify super mario all stars ha.
We are happy that they came out👍
Matthew Deragisch here.
So I agree with the performance side and extra content side of what you're saying.
However as for the appeal of the other games I disagree.
TMNT II the arcade game has not only extra levels but many of the BEST levels in the franchise's history. Absolutely love that, but without online play it's not as exciting and forces me to look at emulators anyways.
The first NES TMNT game is something that a lot of people are going to check this collection out for, it's notorious and people want a cheap way to check it out (remember most casual audiences won't or can't emulate it)
I think the first GB game is better than the second honestly though I like both, those are nostalgic in a way very few games are to me so I'm not objective.
I also know most consider the third game boy game to be the real hidden gem in here. It's what I've seen most people talking about in regard to this collection.
I know tournament fighters has a small online scene but NONE of them are giving up the TMNTxJL game that came out over this port.
I do also think adding every version of these games and COUNTING them as separate games is a dirty trick 22 games my arse.
Having limited online butchers the potential for even more casual players as well.
If they were just going to wrap roms in emulators I feel they should have had more. Where are the GBA games? The PS2 games? Just get them all out there!
Hey matt! Thanks for supporting the channel :-) Yeah I'm probably more dismissive of the NES games than most, but that style of NES game has never appealed to me and I'm honestly not much of a NES fan other than a few stand outs (like Ninja Gaiden) So my patience for these games, even as a kid, has always been thin ha. Also that would be funny if konami kept going and had a bunch of later console games included as well.
Interesting take. I thought it was a foregone conclusion that I would buy this collection but you make some good points. I already own the snes, nes, and genesis core games. I have the the 3d ps3 version of turtles in time arcade. They don’t have the lag. So, do I really want to play the game boy games or tournament fighters that badly? I did buy the Psikyo collection against your advice and I have never actually played it. Maybe I’ll actually listen to you this time. Or maybe I’ll see a Black Friday half off sale and pull the trigger. Only time will tell.
Don't be afraid to emulate. No shame in it.
I love the idea that every time you look at your psikyo collection you can feel my stern gaze watching over you XD Honestly you sound like in your in a really solid position to me, maybe if you do want to get tournament fighters you could spend the money on a flash cart for your snes? Those can be a ton of fun outside of just the turtles games.
I'm okay with re-releases/compilations if they're done right. I remember spending plenty of time growing up with Namco Museum and the first couple of Midway Arcade Treasures collections, but they weren't super laggy either like this one apparently is.
I'm not thrilled with the idea of just re releasing games over and over (that could be an interesting topic vid) but yes if devs are gonna go down this path, they need to make these games perform well otherwise, what's the point. Release a version of the game 2 decades later that plays worse than the original, that's crazy ha.
@@TheElectricUnderground I think there's something to be said for accessibility with collections because let's face it, not everyone wants to fiddle with emulators and roms, especially for stuff like MAME. That's my main argument for these compilations.
Lifehack: The solution to input lag, is to surgically augment your brain to reduce reaction time by a 12 frame equivalent. you'll need to relearn how to catch a baseball, and deathbomb but it'll pay off eventually.
They keep making turtles TV shows, they're probably hoping to bank on curious new fans popping up who can get their parents to buy it, rather than people who actually care.
Which would explain the aggressive ads that I'm certain CZcams is pushing out to any CZcams video related to the show
Also funny thing, I literally got an ad for it from starting this video.
Yes gotta get that Elon Musk brain chip and set it to turbo XD And yes on the cartoon point, this does feel very strategic marketing type of stuff. Like when the nickolodeon logo popped up on the title screen I was like "oh boy, here we go." They can launch as many cartoon as they like, just don't rip off players with laggy ports in the process.
smoke weed everyday.
Glad I got CZcams Premium. Ads drive me crazy
Hey Mark? Gunbird 1 and 2 recently released on consoles. You ever gonna review those ports?
oh I sort of did with strikers 2. It's 4 frames of lag, so better than the switch but nothing to write home about. The features are all the same as the switch version (so hardly any)
Nice review, man. It's so weird that both the gaming and film industries seem to be kinda criatively bankrupt with all the remakes, reinterpretations, live actions, reboots, whatever. Whats is going on?
Btw, I have to say I feel the opposite about the difficulty of the SNES and Genesis games. Turtles in Time always gave me the hardest time, while Hyperstone Heist was a breeze, it's funny.
Yeah I know I think we are in a real rough time creatively, mostly because I think the studio systems are falling in on themselves (both in gaming and film). But rather than exploding in glory their collapse is like a slow but steady erosion.
I beat SNES Turtles in Time the first time I played it. Felt easy. But that's because I trained myself on Hyperstone Heist.
You’re a real one Mark. We need this kind of discussion in the review space. I honestly don’t think most people even understand that the reason these ports feel bad are because of the lag introduced by these low effort porting companies. I think most people assume it must be the way its always been or just straight up don’t understand the concept of lag at all. I almost feel like we need some more super egregious ports to come out of something beloved so people will pay attention and put two and two together. We need a port of super mario bros with 15 frames of input lag so people can’t ignore it and this discussion becomes main stream!
That is my FEAR 100% that new players pick up the collection, read reviews that say it s just like the good ole days of pizza hut and cartoons, and then the new players play the games with this awful input lag and think "old games suck, back to Minecraft." This is why I go on and on about the psikyo collection, because the arcade versions of the games need to be represented as not a pile of lag
That actually sounds like OoT on the Switch online service. I know it kicked up quite a fuss in the more hardcore spaces (like speedrunners), but I wonder how the mainstream actually reacted to it. My guess is they didn't care or notice.
"Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis" already did this for the GBA. There have been horrible ports before. They only make the mediocre ones look better.
This is the kind of content I live for. This kind of critical review of games journalism really harkens back to the fall of gaming blogs like Kotaku and Destructoid. Gaming journalism at the time had become so complacent it didn't take much to disrupt the entire industry. I don't need an over-enthusiastic fanboy regurgitating PR for the games industry; I just want to know if the games are *actually* good.
Yeah that era of gaming journalism has been crushed. I think the reason why is because there is much more money in the industry now so a wild gun reviewer is more of an liability than an asset. Because if you start pissing off publishers, the contributions (direct or indirect) dry up
But this level of "critiquing" can and will go over the heads of most gamers. The masses don't know or care about frame lag or frame rate. Sorry to break it to you but these are niche topics and to expect them to care about these things is just ridiculous. That's why blogs don't talk about these subjects but it makes us feel superior to say they're all in the publishers pocket.
Late to the party replying here but thank you for the review. Amazingly I'm one of the people most excited about the fighting games (SNES of course, but I also owned the NES one and never played the Genesis one). Unfortunately my Switch is the only console I have access to and now I'm torn. Input lag is frustrating particularly when it's not a technical limitation of some kind but I'm agreeing with you a lot on all the "dev extras." Very tired of 12 JPEGs and some box art scans being used to justify a price tag. I love artwork and it's cool to have but a handful of images without context can be found on a forum. A deep dive into the process of making the game with the technology and atmosphere/expectations of the era could be enjoyable. Design choices. Marketing deals and decisions. Etc. My main reasons for wanting this are portability and a "legal" way to play (when are we changing emulation copyright rules already) but I'm hesitant to reward a lackluster job. Is this worth it if I can get a physical copy on sale or just forget it altogether?
Thank you for the awesome comment!!
I wonder if the input delay is less in the PAL version... Because I can't feel any difference from the real deal. I've been playing the NES and SNES Turtles games my whole life and know them like the back of my hand. Went into this collection expecting pure frustration (heard about the lag AFTER ordering a copy) but it feels the same. I thought I was just remembering it wrong so I brought my Switch into my retro gaming room and went back and forth, back and forth, between the Switch version of SNES Turtles in time and the real SNES version on a CRT to spot the difference and I couldn't for the life of me feel a difference. And I count myself as someone who's fairly sensitive to input delay (I can't enjoy the Psikyo games on Switch for example and the Metal Slug Anthology on PS2 is completely unplayable without exaggerating). Very weird.
a possible explanation is your display setup, if you have a laggy display to begin with (some tvs are crazy laggy) then the difference in frames will be less noticable because once you get a big ball of lag going, it becomes harder to tell. What display do you have?
@@TheElectricUnderground Can CRT TVs have lag? I wasn't aware of that. The TV my SNES is hooked up to is a Bang & Olufsen MX7000, and when I was comparing I had my Switch in handheld mode!
Please keep the warfare going! Having seen how bad Shredder's Revenge came out I was hoping the old school Turtles games might be worth diving in to, but I guess not on modern hardware. I feel so guilty for actually enjoying Gunbird 2 on the Psikyo collection even though I can play it anywhere else, it's just fun to practice it handheld in bed (it is a pretty bad collection for some great games though).
Lmao people are gonna be so mad with you, I know some people have been saying that there is lag in these collection but still give it 8-10/10s. Which is fine ig since these people are just old boomers who want to be nostalgic but god damn, they’re really blind. I’ve also been hearing a lot of people go “digital eclipse should do more collections like this with other great games” and I’m just here like noooo there are better people for that. Digital eclipse is very mid sometimes bad in terms of lag and some annoying things like in the Sam sho collection you can’t view the move list until the match starts. Or in their capcom fighting collection with the darkstalkers games the move list is kinda confusing compared to the one they had in their street fighter collection
Yeah the quality of their porting in terms of actual performance is slipping hard. Also yes this is gonna make people upset ha, no punches pulled this time around
"Old boomers... blind"
.
I'm noticing a trend of people making insulting and elitist comments toward anyone who isn't hyper sensitive to things like they are. Look, I understand some people are hyper focused on this stuff. But most aren't. That doesn't make them "boomers" or "blind" it makes them normal. If ppl want to care about this stuff that's fine. But the minute you start insulting anyone who isn't part of your cult, that's where you've crossed the line.
@@ActionJaxonH fair enough, I meant it in a tongue and cheek way. To be honest the lag doesn’t bother me much either, sorry if it offended you
Cool game. It's like a renaissance of beat 'em up games. At a recent steam festival, I played the demo of another potentially good game - Arnold Bounty Hunter. It looks more like the first Battletoads - there are not only fights, but also various adventures with platforming, hydrocycles. It also looks interesting. I liked the demo.
Not everyone can afford the arcade cabinet and the 360 port of TMNT Arcade was delisted years and years ago. So no, not all these games are accessible to the public.
Epic. I went with the crystal. Also, emulation is king
I’m just curious about this, how can the Mister SNES version be 2 frames but the Retroarch SNES version is only 1 frame of lag?
Is this tested on a CRT or LCD and what sync setting do you have in your Mister.ini ?
Btw I’m loving these critical in-depth reviews, the mainstream press will never give us details like this.
Oh great question! So the SNES hardware has 2 frames of lag, that is lowest lag possible on that hardware (that I m aware of). However RetroArch has a feature called run ahead that can chomp out even hardware native lag, so the emulator runs faster than the og hardware in cores that support it. It s some crazy matrix stuff in how run ahead works, but it s basically running the game twice one version ahead of the version your playing
Lmao the Tournament fighters community are pretty happy with this release overall they put a fair amount of care into its implementation. so you’re super off base here. I do agree with the lag being an issue, nostalgia for the brand over the gameplay is the point and I kinda accepted that since I own most of the games. But online for tournament fighters is nice. To say the non turtles in time games is padding isn’t gonna resonate to most Tmnt fans. Still glad you’re being critical of the objective faults here. Glad you mentioned the gameboy colors thing. That one drives me nuts not being there.
But yea I can acknowledge different strokes. When they made the Castlevania collection I told myself I hope they do a Tmnt collection and it has tournament fighters on it. Lol.
Why on earth would the tournament fighters community play this hellish port? I m sorry my dude but you all are the ones slipping up here, not me. Why would you compete in a fighting game with 6 frames of built in lag when you could emulate it on fightcade or something and have a much better experience. There no reason to play this port as your standard ha
@@TheElectricUnderground Some folks just like to support games they like its that simple. That is how you grow a community, dunking on the most accessible port is rarely good if you want more people to play the game, that's common sense. OFC Fightcade is superior. But the Collection existing isn't a net negative for fans of these game.
@@andagean I'm glad to hear that is how the community sees the collection port...just an opportunity to get more people to play it. I definitely agree with Mark that it isnt the most ideal way to play it, but if it gets the game exposure then that still helps. Console and PC retail releases get people interested, then fightcade can come when the passion is there. And both options can coexist.
@@misterkeebler that is more or less how it's being taken its not ideal, but can be good for anyone wanting to pass the games on or make it more accessible. ofc it does suck a retail product ships like this but that's partially the business, I don't think it deserves 10/9 reviews for that reason. Just figured I'd point out WHY some older fans genuinely found stuff to like here.
First off, Mark - that intro was comedic gold🤣
Also, IRON GALAXY STUDIOS (not Digital Eclipse) developed 3rd Strike Online. Digital Eclipse (those losers) developed the mediocre SF 30th Anniversary Collection a few years ago. Anyways, back to the topic at hand.
Now, I've never understood the appeal of a collection of mediocre 30+ year old TMNT games. I find these games to be largely unremarkable, but far be it from me to deny any genuine fan of these games, their fun. But c'mon, 6 frames of lag on top of $40?! Unacceptable. You're probably the only person out here being honest about the mediocrity of this collection, while everyone else is just as delusional as they were with Shredder's Revenge.
PS: where did you find that pic of April on the thumbnail. She is racktastic🤤
Yes that s right I got them mixed up, it was iron galaxy that did 3rd strike online (baller port), and eclipse did anniversary collection. Night and day releases. Fun fact the PS3 3rd strike port is like PCB level input lag if I remember correctly. Also Boghog recommended the artist who did the April o Neal pic, david liu, dude is amazing
@@TheElectricUnderground Yeah, you're right. I have both, PS3 and 360 versions of 3rd Strike Online, and the PS3 had lag issues on all of their Capcom fighters to some degree. I remember the PS3 version of Super Street Fighter IV and all the lag issues that entailed.
I’m goin to get some crystal and I’m telling em electric underground sent me!
Tell them you better get a discount, or the underground will come collect.
Speaking from a European perspective, getting the good versions of these old games on import can be very difficult or expensive. For us at least the collections are a godsend for convenience and accessibility when it comes to official releases.
Also MLIG spoke a big game about using OG hardware but that’s super expensive to do with the upscalers. Budget retro gaming is dying, after moving out it took me 2 years to source a new CRT that was suitable for gaming in a small apartment. People aren’t noticing it but retro gaming on OG hardware is becoming a struggle now.
That all said, we are still getting burned. A lot of these newer collections are sub-par and it has gotten to the point where I personally am just ignoring the classics for newer releases. There are what, 6 Cotton games for me to pick from on switch? I’ve been given no good reason to buy anything other than reboot and rock n roll because the classic ports suck bad.
Capcom arcade stadium isn’t perfect but it’s good enough to buy at 50% off due to the big game list and first-time home ports. It could have been better still though.
I have only used rewind for one thing and that is the RPGs on the mega drive collection. Die to a random encounter in Phantasy Star II or Shining in the Darkness? You better believe I’m taking back those 30-60 seconds. Wouldn’t use it for anything else however, no one wants to take back progress in an action oriented game; it’s better to checkpoint, save state or reset.
The retro port market is clearly getting hot and as a result the bar has either been lowered or the priorities have been misunderstood. Thank you as always for putting a spotlight on this problem.
Glad you made the review. While I’m not too sensitive to input lag I think this would have been an issue for me. It is annoying that reviewers are ignoring actual issues in games more and more. It’s like toxic positivity or something
With that said I’m pretty sure the average Joe isn’t going to notice. They definitely aren’t going to spend extra money on original hardware plus the games.
Even though I fully sympathize with our point in regards to input lag but I don't see how this sort of criticism can really make an impact on a larger scale. In essence, input lag is already a highly specific and technical niche which is a genre that is itself that is already far more niche, then it becomes even more niche because only a small part of the Shmup community is also heavily into scores. I do sincerely believe that someone who isn't accustomed to having no input lag may truly not see the difference. I experience this issue often when it comes to framerate, I want games to run smooth because it overall enhances the game experience and feel. Some are just not used to it.
Unfortunately, Shmups itself as a genre can be incredibly casual and hardcore at the same time. In many games, you already touched upon the fact that Shmup games are at times sold as popcorn, easy fastfood gaming that baits with nostalgia.
A niche within a niche is where this channel lives though :-) I have no interest in analysis from the view of the greatest common denominator :-)
Lol the polygon crypto logo
yep whoops ha! Meant to get the "journalism" site but apparently they are too lazy to make a logo that looks good.
Grade A Crystal lmao got me
I'm glad you appreciated it ha! I thought it might be kind of a shocking shit in tone XD
I kind of wish I had seen this video back within my return window.
I m sorry my friend, returns are so tough to pull off these days too
I would preferer to play those turtle games on TV since many of them were designed for console play, but the PC emulation community did em justice some years ago.
In defense of the patchy bonus art: many old bit games were designed through sketching of ideas on paper/posted notes: that was the best way to tile a level before committing it to code. Some devs would tile a level out of Legos first. So it's more like a time capsule of lost design logic.
Could lag be produced by refresh rates of digital display/monitors? Or maybe display scaling? Baffling...
Oh input lag wise I actually measure everything on a crt, so no display lag is captured in my tests. Sadly this means that most players will actually suffer from more lag than in my tests, since most displays add at least add a frame of lag. Where the lag comes from in the release is how they handle the emulation, where they are not tuning it for performance and instead probably just want to tune it for easy compatibility, even if that means adding more lag.
I'll never understand why people always hype the hell out of digital eclipse when M2 has been able to do everything that these guys can do and do it 1m times better
I still hate how little credit M2 gets in thw industry, but no it's always digital eclipse that gets big projects
Absolutely 100% digital eclipse have the marketing M2 have the talent :-)
That's not true: I'm a semi-casual and I knew about M2, they're renowned in the retro gaming scene. Most gaming channels and even mainstream sites talk about them. I had never heard of digital eclipse instead.
Well, Sega did give M2 the keys to do the Genesis Mini. If that's not huge , I don't know what is. Also, Konami contracted them to do a bunch of their game ports, like the Castlevania, Gradius and Contra collections and much more.. The point is, M2 gets a lot of big projects. You probably just aren't aware of them.
where can i buy those sunglasses?
I wish I could tell you, I got them as a gift on my birthday. So just wait till your birthday comes and cross your fingers ha.
Also, could it be that your hacked hardware is adding that in? Just curious.
Ha no, I lag test dozens, perhaps hundreds over the years and my lag results have been frequently cross referenced. I just tested a game last night , thunder force AC, that had 3 frames of lag.
Maybe they updated it or something but.. usually my test for “is the lag so bad that I actually care” is if I press a button, does the action it’s supposed to cause appear to happen immediately or is there any perceivable delay. I can’t for the life of me see any delay and I’m enjoying turtles in time a ton
I'm down for re-releasing every game known to man kind. If done correctly and respectfully, there will always be a market audience. I'm with you enjoying good emulation. You might be surprised of how many people either do not know or don't want to bother setting anything up to emulate. The bigger casual market would rather just pop in some collection of games and play. I'm not even surprised by your statement of that one guy not feeling the lag difference. Alot of people have, we'll say, "gotten used" to the insane lag. Most likely not having their modern tv in game mode lol. Seriously though, collections like this could be a boon for many that want a brain dead way to enjoy some classic games. I myself am in the boat of playing on original hardware Saturn and under, but don't care how others enjoy their games. Great points and insight on the echo chamber or lack of when it's needed to shine a light on shoddy emulation. Thanks for a different perspective. Edit: Hey I love all three NES Turtle games! lol also your opening to this video alone deserves a thumbs up.
Yes that is really true, there are a lot of players who simply refuse to engage in any sort of non commercial emulation. Still though, there are people who only use their computers to check their Facebook and email, doesn't mean that the more sophisticated hardware shouldn t be recognized :-)
whats that setup you're using to measure input lag?
Light, 60 fps camera, crt
Leonardo, Michaelangelo, Donatello, and Ralph
This made me chuckle.
Leo, Donny, Mikey, and Ralph ha
That's what I called them growing up :-)
@@TheElectricUnderground classic kid stuff. when I was a little kid I thought a sequel was a "seek wolf" and wondered where the wolves were.
Collectors do silly things with their money and it is funny from a gaming perspective but these products aren't for playing they are for shelving. I was pissed off around 2015 when I noticed collectors taking over the scene. But I'm okay with it now. Some of the products are pretty cool. You mentioned the MiSTer. The MiSTer might not exist if it wasn't for all the collectors out there burning money and keeping retro games in pop culture. Enjoy your destopian hellscape. Go to Game stop and buy a Zelda shirt.
I did a video myself about collectors and retro gaming.
It is a double eded sword for sure. Where collectors make certain projects much more possible than they have any right to be in a more casual market (like the mister) but on the other hand they also fall into some really nasty traps that favor nostalgia marketing and all that sort of thing. Also I hunted that vid you mentioned down and will have to give it a watch! I'll link it here for anyone curiously reading through this comment czcams.com/video/7BZeC0ZFBGk/video.html
@@TheElectricUnderground yeah that's the video.
I played through curse of the moon last night and I was really impressed. It's not the best game ever or anything but it is very good. I'm sure that game wouldn't have been made if it wasn't for all the nostalgia consumers. They do drag the hobby down to the lowest common denominator. For example I beat Curse of the Moon on the hardest difficulty settings and it still only took one night to clear.
I think I'm out. It's one thing to voice your opinions. I take no issue with that. But it's another to start ranting about those who don't share your opinions and hyper sensitive focus on things they don't notice or care about. "How can you not notice 8 frames lag?" I imagine that person is asking the same thing about you in reverse. Point being, most ppl don't notice or care. I know that's hard for ppl around here to accept, as more and more I see the, "I'm the elite gamer and I'm right, it's a problem, and if it doesn't bother you like it does me, or if you don't notice it like I do, there's something wrong with you" slander, followed by hostile remarks, jabs and insults toward those who don't share your particular niche perspective. I just want no part of it. Keep preaching to the choir, ranting about how you don't understand why the rest of the world doesn't share your views, mocking and belittling the 95% who don't see things the way you do. Voice opinion = good. Belittle those who don't share your voiced opinion = childish. Had this channel just kept it to voicing opinions rather than insulting those who disagree, I'd stick around. But I'm not into the whole, "take underhanded jabs at anyone who feels otherwise" thing. That's when you cross the line from just sharing how you personally feel about the matter, to mocking anyone who doesn't fall in line.
Im guessing you came for the enthusiasts take on this, so I have no idea why your offended. Other than a few jibes out of frustration and to be honest I agree with the man it's frustrating, everyones free to there opinion and while no one expects everyone to agree Im glad there's actually someone calling out these low effort ports, no offence but there's plenty of channels out there willing to tell you what you want to hear, beyond the opinions the game has 6-8 frames of input lag and that's a fact, basically sub par, I think most here would've been around in the arcade era and actually played these games back then, reffering to turtles in time of course , there's people that want the authentic arcade experience and when the asking price is placed where it is for something like this you would expect a certain level of quality, if you like it play it, no ones being elitist here no ones stopping you, me personally I want to make an informed decision when jumping in to somthing like this and that is becoming harder to do when games are more and more becoming above any actual valid critism
The same could be said about you though. So I'm not allowed to express my views and opinions because they offend you in some way? Of the two of us I'd say you're the hyper sensitive one my friend. Don't be hypocritical. You love to hear passionate takes on the stuff you agree with, and the second you have a video that is challenging you, you peace out in a self righteous manner. Also don't be lame, it's fun to battle with each other in the comments section, don't act like you don't enjoy it ha.
When you say Retroarch on PC has 1 frame of latency do you mean it's more responsive that original hardware? Did you run it with run ahead turned on?
Yes! You can get 1 frame out of the snes cores on arch with run ahead. The reason why this is cool is because most players play on monitors that add a frame of lag, so the math works like this. 1 frame of game lag + 1 frame of monitor lag = 2 frames. So that would match playing on the og console which has 2 frames of game lag but 0 frames of display lag when connected to a CRT.
To remap buttons for TIT was like super complicated for some reason idk if it’s just me but I play stick and it was very annoying to change action and jump just to line up with R2 or enhancement button I’m not sure.
Yeah there is no option to remap the menu or instant dash buttons, why digital eclipse why ha
@@TheElectricUnderground so asinine I don’t get it man
You're doing important work bruh
Haven't a slightest clue that TMNT collection is so laggy. Wanted to buy it, because never owned those games (only bootleg copies were available in my childhood), but now I'm having a second thoughts about it. If I remember correctly, that compilation was patched after release, but does it fix the input lag problem?
I'm not sure, i would assume not though as lag in these emulation collection is usually heavily baked into the port. For the most part to get rid of it they would need to redo how the game is emulated, at least this is what I've seen.
Full disclosure I was playing Gunbird2 on Switch while watching this, haha. Oh well, such is the fate if you only have one console