Joshua Schmidt Reacts to ARE GOING-SECOND STAPLES FAIR? - Magical Hats
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- čas přidán 6. 04. 2023
- Original Video: • ARE GOING-SECOND STAPL...
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The bit where he talks about how DRNM would have not see any play 10 years ago has its living proof in Scythe. That card didn't see any play for years after its release, because back then if you got Scythed you would just set 3, set a monster and pass and it was a perfectly good turn. Now you get scythed, you basically pass and get killed on the next turn
And nobody runs it in Duel Links despite being a F2P card.
@@joanaguayoplanell4912 Probably because despite links being added, DL is still a relatively slow format due to the reduced number of monster and s/t zones. Konami is just really meticulous about keeping the power level of that game underneath the OCG and TCG since DL is a gateway into the physical card game and MD for those that find actual Yugioh to be too fast.
Like, i got into Yugioh through my friend helping me and through DL after Swag released the preview of his 2002-2005 Yugioh meta documentary.
I wouldnt be shocked if (just like Smash Bros Melee) a lot of new players got into the game because of it (the timing with MD's release also helped). The term for that in the Melee community was "doc-kids" or documentary kids if I remember correctly. Thankfully, the term shouldnt be anything too derogatory since the Yugioh doc focused solely on the evolving meta and not necessarily on any of the players and shit. Its just a historical analysis. Its not like people who only watched History of Yugioh and act like they're fucking smithsonians. People that watched the doc seem to be much more pragmatic given Swag's current built-in audience from his main channel comes from the powerscaling community. The only shit they get heated about are vs debates.
The problem with Scythe these days is you can set up a good board PLUS the Scythe. If your ONLY game plan is to Scythe your opponent, this is still the case.
@@four-en-tee DL has been dedicated to nothing but OTK formats for years now. Hand traps are to prevent OTK's which Konami has pushed through banlist after banlist to be the only viable strategy.
True for DRNM but Lightning storm would have been good the whole time surely.
The reason going first is so good is because going second you need your blow out unsearchable cards in addition to your combo. You don't know what your opponent will do to stop you so if you don't draw the exact out you're screwed while if you do you just win. Going first the only thing you need is combo starters.
Equalizer feels like it's a very MTG brain approach to trying to discuss this sort of card, in MTG the equivalent is getting a new Dark Hole every few sets that essentially punishes people overcommitting. But in Yu-Gi-Oh you don't have that old-school grindgame scenario anymore where both players are supposed to hold stuff in hand and assume they'll get the chance to slowly deploy them, since decks OTK or produce unbreakable boards so quickly. I suppose Evenly is somewhat similar to Dark Hole - you only play it when you're gonna take control of the game afterwards and preferably when you have almost nothing to throw away to activate it - but in YGO cards that "equalize" are usually really protection for your combo's weakest spots so that you can actually proceed to suddenly be the only player with a board vs someone who has nothing meaningful. So it's less an equalizer and more, as you say, a "blowout card"
I really grateful joshua do magical hats reaction, because we actually got takes (both based and not) from yugituber, casual player, and joshua from the competitive side, also from comments section from the viewer that got little bit heated. That's why mbt's magical hats and twitter thread videos are the ones that i anticipated most
And sometimes just for the funnies like the maxx c vid
I completely agree with making more engine cards that are good going first but better going second. I'm really glad that's becoming more common for example the new Battling Boxer that summons others from deck is good going first but the fact that it can special itself going second is also cool.
I 100% agree with Joshua on this one. However we would need to ban a ton of cards and stop entirely designing decks that just plus for free with no drawbacks (spright is the worst of that design, every card is just search, special or negate with the exception of Gigantic that locks you into lvl2).
It would probably be simpler to create new formats than trying to rebalance the mess of cardpool that is ygo.
I think the problem with a lot of breakers has to do with how uninteresting they are. Cards like kurikara, ultimate slayer, rite of aramesir for example are much more interesting and even hype to resolve because they have conditions they you can build and play around. Cards like dark ruler to the contrary are just boring, there's no real decision making or outplaying when they are used, you just put it on the field and it becomes a non game.
I pulled 2 kurikara in master duel. And I’ve never been promoted to summon that shit ever.
Not once. Never resolved it. What does it even do???
@@isidoreaerys8745 It just clapped up a YCS lol
Yeah, the "equalizer" term threw me off a bit also, though I let it go because I guess I could see why someone breaking a board going second after the opponent combo'd off for 15 minutes could be seen as "equalizing" shit in their eyes.
A better term would be "utility cards" or something along those lines. They're generic tools - each made with a specific purpose - that aid in dismantling a given board state.
Utility I don't think is the right word for it either. If the whole pile of cards being talked about is for dismantling boards just calling them board breakers makes more sense.
Blowout cards is the term that works best for these cards
DRNM I think the earliest it would've seen play and been a card that had the meaningful impact would've been during Spyral format/Gouki Extra link format before cards like Summon Sorc or Knightmare Goblin was banned.
Think your right!
Around the end of Pendulum era going into Link era is where we started to see more negate type boards.
Links definitely amplified the Negate everything type boards, due to links creating unique interactions you previously couldn't do or making old cards become more broken then usual, like Grinder Golem giving you a free board from mostly 1 card
Even though in the past we had old card become broken in later formats.
But i think Link Era made a card that would be slightly broken, become more broken with steroids
Mentioning Incredible Ecclesia makes me very happy since Swordsoul became my favorite deck because of its ability to crack boards with engine. Sequencing Vishuda, Baxia, and Yazi through seemingly busted boards was top tier going second gameplay even though Swordsoul wasn't a blind second deck. People give Swordsoul too much shit. To me it's almost perfectly designed.
I am one of those people who used to give swordsoul shit but it is arguably one of the most fun decks to play against in terms of interaction because its not degen like the absolute top tier decks that caused the necessity for board breakers while still being competitive.
I think there's two periods that have stuck in peoples' memories regarding Swordsoul: Its use when it first came out, where it ended on Protoss, and the period just before POTE, where SwSo (and, to be fair, every other deck) was on like 9 game ending floodgates out of the board (and sometimes in the main).
most fairest and fun meta deck in recent memory
a joy to play with and against, and skill of the pilot makes or break the deck, virtually a perfect deck
only problem being protos, which tbf was a real problem, but any swordsoul games played without protos/when you don't know your opponent's deck is what yugioh should aim to do
I love love LOVE playing swordoul going second! It is honestly genuine peak yugioh at times having to crack a board using only "engine" in tenyis while looking for a line that can OTK and protect committing to the Moye normal, that was absolute PEAK yugioh to be honest.
Baxia is so disrespectful. Because you can see it coming a mile away and there’s nothing you can do to stop it
Going second blowouts are like nukes. They are not a thing you would want to exist,but their existance alone keeps things in check
Josh, I really think you missed the point Coder was making about Pankertops being better than Evenly (which it is, Pankertops is basically "minus 2 responses")
1. It is a free inherent summon (nothing to negate)
2. Its huge, meaning it can remove a negate in the battle phase without activating them.
3. If your opponent attempts to destroy or targetted negate the Pankertops doesn't work because you can tribute it in response, forcing out a negate or popping an opponent's card while potenially causing their card to not resolve.
Yeah, his opinion on Pank was definitely wrong. It does a a lot for one card and immediately demands a response. The only reasons it’s not seeing play really is because it’s at 1, so it’s hard to realistically account for it where as called by is also in and out of deck list too. Some decks forgo it, others play it. Also the fenrir take I also don’t agree with. 1 fenrir is alot worse than 1 Pank because if you’re going first, there are much better options than just summon that guy. Most decks would rather just play a meaningful extender. I can definitely see control decks maining the 1 copy but it too won’t see that much play even at 1
Man do people not even read card names anymore? Yugioh syndrome got really bad huh.
@@MsMiDC ???
That makes Pank a different card than evenly but the fact of the matter is resolving Evenly can win you the game in a lot of match ups. That simply isn’t the case for Pank.
I love Pank but evenly is simply a stronger card most of the time with the way modern yugioh is played.
Evenly is "minus 1 negate" against nearly every deck (because every deck makes at least 1 negate as part of the end board) while Pank is "1 for 2" in 95% of cases. Y'all really need to be playing this card it's crazy
Joshua is the mvp. Even his takes are top tier
Nobody cares if evenly is good or not. If it resolves, congrats the game wasn’t even played majority of the time. The inverse is true of flipping your floodgate. Whatever unique and interesting game becomes who can sack the other first.
Also nibiru is no different
I’ve said for the longest, whoever didn’t see it that way was coping. Cards being occasionally dead vs single handedly winning the game or almost winning you the game is such a dull concept.
Floodgates and blowout cards just don't work with the current game. There are way too many cards that just win games by themselves with little to no counterplay. Really hoping they start getting rid of them
@@yuseifido5706snt it the opposite? Due how game being played right now, floodgates and blowout going second cards are more needed tha ever
@@invertbrid he is talking about those exact cards. Floodgates are the cards that win the game on their own like 8/10
@@periklisperperis6868 yea but again, its needed more than ever in modern YGO, coz decks becoming too fast. Floodgates ad blowout like evenly etc are needed.
I think cards that trade one for one are fine for going second cards. Kaijus, Ultimate Slayer, and such. Anything that lets you out a whole board just isn't engaging.
Striker players have used cards like that in the past though
@@createrz8433and?
@@SDREHXC it was joke I was making
The comment mentioned how outing a board isn't "Engaging"
I might be wrong but I feel like if Dark Ruler No More had been in the game since the beginning, it would have started to be be used when Borreload Savage Dragon was printed
I 100% agree that right now Game 1 is way more fun. I thought that would never happen since the side deck was always a cool component of Yugioh that brought creativity and skill to matches. Now side deck cards say: "Skip your opponent's turn" or "break your opponent's board" so that you can win on the next. Cards like Dogmatikatrix and the new Volcanic cards are really cool because they're both good going first OR second.
Such a funny one imo. The traditional card game definition for fair has something to do with getting one-for-ones, which is something yugioh has departed from a long time ago. In this sense, the negates players put up going first are much more fair than the raigeki etc. But, implicitly, I think they're really just asking if they're properly tuned, since running threats is better than running answers fundamentally (you can blame yugioh card design if you want, but it's a deep universal principle that has to do with diversification of threats demanding the answerer draw correctly) and the answers need to be strong to compensate for that. Well, but then you get into even a deeper question: even if the cards are fine, is the collective pool of them too much? It's not enough to push the turn player out of being advantaged, but...
And here we get to some colloquial "fair" as MBT rants which is that, even if they bring the second player's winrate up, do they make it more likely that the better duelist wins? It's funny because, not when they resolve, but when they get negated, they form an important part of a skillful dismantling of a board.
I play a lot of yugi kaiba format, and we have raigeki and dark hole there, and because of how slow the monsters are and how important card advantage is, they do actually force players to not summon a second monster most of the time, not just jam the threats and hope they don't have it. This I think belies the best answer: power cards that are optimally played around most of the time are healthy, and power cards you cannot or should not play around are unhealthy. Counterplay must exist, and it must not require having a hard read. I think yugioh is another wave of power creep away from ever seeing another format like this (you're out of your mind if you think they're gonna ban and retrain every blowout card).
You mention bo1 but I think master duel might be even sackier lol.
Battlin boxer new card does that. Free summon at 2nd turn, and going first can create good xyz.
I love how joshua retroactively added himself into this show lol
Would it help to freeze negates set up in „turn zero“ until the player going second had a turn
At this point the game needs a complete reboot, so at least we can play 5 turns per player
Edison or Trinity. I just really hope that Master Duel adds an Edison format at some point.
Master rule 6 will be no siding
Havnis and the Bystials were a step in the right direction, powerful HTs that allow both sides to play regardless of who's turn it is. Sure they were an immense leap in power creep compared to other decks but everything needs to start somewhere.
In comparison TTThrust was a step in the wrong direction, it's not really a problem currently since Tear got slaughtered and the Bystials aren't situated very well atm but once HT that summon themselves becomes the standard we already have a great answer for it. And I'm personally of the opinion that going first is already too much of an advantage we don't need cards that punish the limited capabilities player 2 already has to fight back.
This is actually true, just rarely see anybody say it. Havnis ans Bystials were definitely one of the things that made Ishizu Tear such a great step in the right direction, it was just a bit ahead of its time imo. Give it a few years and there will be a lot more playing on your turn. And that's just a natural progression from where we're at right now.
You need to be specific about how they should integrate going second power within engine cards. The going second capacity needs to be available/searchable without committing the engine's limited starters or often their normal summon. If I need to resolve a "going second combo" through interruption, it just won't actually happen. An example of this is the scrap engine. Normal summoning recycler and going through Lib, will end up providing 4+ instances of speed1 removal. But because you need to commit your normal summon it's entirely non-viable going second into interruption.
watched at 7:32 and there is the point that brought up on magical hats episode about is Best of 1 competitive, which is very interesting.
Did he watched/reacted to that eps? because I just recently watch this channel only
The issue is as decks get better, board breakers become more and more irrelevant simply serve as rogue-killers. See: Tear, which had built in Nib protection as well as an in-house omni negate and MST making just about any counter to them completely irrelevant
Striker but I agree that it does take the generic board breakers to work
so... remove all quick effect negates, and turn 2 board breakers, will this be the most ideal yugioh?
While I don't like unbreakable boards, I also don't think its fair that through stuff like floodgates u can basically match ur opponent's 10 min combo by flipping 1 purple card.
Going 2nd cards are a necessary evil, no more no less. Some are crazy etc. but unfortunately necessary with how powerful going first boards usually are
Edit: Nahhhhh gotta hard disagree with Josh, Runick cards are NOT well designed those cards are so stupid what a stupid engine they're obscene
An interesting engendering flaw of yugioh is that the 3 main categories of decks. Combo, midrange, control have the ability to be all 3.
@ 1:43 THANK YOU, I literally left that exact comment on their video! 🤣
That shit don't equalize, it blows them the fuck out of the water!
Yugioh:
I summon my monster, I go plus one that is an extender, I summon an extra deck monster that lets me go plus one into an extender that also goes plus one, I summon another extra deck monster that lets me extend into some monsters that let me go plus 2, those plusses are extenders that allow me to go into another extra deck monster that also extends and plusses through omni negates.
Fun.
I do realize that there are a good amount of decks that don't actually play like this, but it's these "combo" decks that force the board wipe cards to be played (and the floodgate backrow decks in some cases, though for the most part those decks are a lot less playable because they're worse going second).
Side note:
The first point is exactly why I hate swordsoul. (I'm specifically pointing out swordsoul here because it's an archtype that most yugioh players don't dislike, and I think they should dislike it) That archtype is so unbelievably poorly designed. It's designed for there to be little to no back and forth. It tries to set up enough interactions to count to the number of starters the opponent has. Mo Ye is a fucking plus three. You use one card, get a draw, a tutor, a body, and a negate. It's disgusting. How do you beat cards like that? You either draw imperm and go neg 1 (and still lose to more extenders), or you go plus 6 with an evenly matched after baiting out baron de fleur with said imperm.
Tear gets a bad rep because it's full of a lot of pushed cards (imo the ishizu cards are more problematic), but the way that deck interacts with the opponent is a lot more healthy and more back and forth than some of these more "fair" archtypes. (they're not more fair, they're just worse)
Or alternatively you play any deck that can eat the limited interactions Swordsoul puts up with you six card hand. It's not difficult.
my man what yugioh have you been playin the past 4 years if you think moye is some sort of unsurmontable mountain?
swordsoul most definitely doesn't lock you out of the duel, it doesn't even try to, the point is to make a solid enough board to not just die and win on the crack back
pushing through a swordsoul board w/ only engine is not only possible but i'd argue happens more often than not against anything that is rogue or higher
i genuinely wonder what kind of decks you DON'T consider locking you out of plays because my man swordsoul ain't it
@@toto789land Mo ye is a disgusting card that seems fair just because there are other even more overpowered cards in the game. The card is not fair. Sure it's easy to beat because you can just play one of the other archtypes that is more powerful. I was using mo ye as an example, the card is by no means an insurmountable mountain.
I agree. It’s not the Sweaty, Labbed out combos which are a problem. It’s the game design. Cards like Mo ye. Which ends on 2 negates off 1 card consistently. Braindead fusion, which is like a banish 1 mill 2 discard 1, draw 3 set 1 with 3 bodies on the board and recursion for your next turn. The game is designed in a way that makes archetypes too formulaic.
Modern yu gi oh means every deck can otk, so every single floodgate, board clear etc is completely necessary
Yugioh is the best when boards are easy to break but OTKs are hard to achieve.
If going first boards are broken I can’t see why going second would be the same.
because your opponent has no cards in their hand
@@rocapbg9518 there is so many +1s in the game trading even for a card is hardly worth it.
in this discussion trif is missing haha
No, Lightning Storm definitely would have seen play.
Dark Ruler No More, yes, it wouldn't have seen play, there just wasn't as many busted activated and lingering monster effects back then.
16:00 Lightning storm would see play at 3 regardless the era.
i lik efarfas dark ruler no more dragon ruler format i mean don't we all know all how annoying it was when my opponent activated dracosack during my turn to pop something or big eyes stealing my heliotrope preventing me from making ophion, oh wait quick effects pretty much didn't exist in yugioh until zoo format and would look at that only 2 years after that we had suddenly the need for for something like that almost as if yugioh went wrong the second monsters did what traps where made for but they also can attack to win the game
Game got power crept to shit. On another note even if they start making new cards to attempt to fix the issue the old broken staples still exists and as long as the new cards aren't enough to keep those staples in check then no one is going to use them in which case its an endless cycle of power creep.
@@ASoldierify it's not completely impossible. just look at pre ishizu tear that deck did like a monster negate but only for on field monsters and a summon negate. full power labrynth would probably have had a really high win rate against that even if you remove every floodgate and board breaker. all the while is tear the strongest archetype ever made without question. honestly if konami just stopped making every boss monster 3k atk so that you have the real problem of your big endboss being run over by vanilla utopia because someone summoned 2 level 4s that would fix so many things and spright did that for once well until you read gigantics second sentence
@@esrohm6460 I don't disagree with u but the reason why its next to impossible is that konami is not prioritizing these points whatsoever.
I don’t feel that bothered when I get floodgated. It can be fun to play around a skill drain or a gozen match.
I don’t mind elaborate combo boards with multiple negates.
But when my opponent opens up 1 feather duster 2 Lightning storm and absolutely blows out my board I feel incredibly cheated. Literally I don’t even play 1 feather duster in my decks usually because I’ll Brick so consistently with it.
Also ash blossom is toxic and serves no purpose but CBTG bait going second. But going first its an invisible Extra 1 for 1 negate on turn player one’s board.
I disagree with Joshua’s take on things like nibiru or hfd being a good “equalizer” for rogue decks. Decks should be worse than other decks because one engine is better than another. That’s part of why we have a ban list. Playing phantom knights and having to add extra adventure bricks etc. to not lose to nib/evenly while hoping to draw them is dull. Games can also end on turn 1 getting nib’d with like no follow up. It’s far too punishing.
Disagree too. If ur deck lose to nibiru and evenly and u dont do any counterplay, u deserved to lose tbh. It does help rogue a bit, againts better decks that dont respect this things.
@@invertbrid how did nib beat tear? how does it beat kash? rouge is decks that are 2/3 card combos compared to the one of the meta, nib hurts rouge more then any other ht
An opponent should be able to punish you for over-extending.
Going first you have 1 less card, but still is unfair in modern ygo
As someone watching this in may of 2024. Going second cards are not good enough 😂😂
I think an interesting idea to prevent these awful g2/g3 would be to have no siding until g3
Powerful going 2nd cards are emblematic of oppressive 1st turn boards…necessitating these awfully busted cards.
@mbtyugioh react to this :0
why did no one have a yugioh genius’ take…space capitalism…
42:56 : they can be one for one trades, if it makes the other cards in your hand playable. If you go second against a Naturia Beast, you can one for one trade the Naturia Beast with a Kaiju for example, because it will make it so the other spells in your hand are actually playable and can make an impact on board.
That's not consistent though. If you don't draw the kaiju, half your hand is still dead. That's what he's saying. If you don't draw the specific card that auto-wins, you're screwed
@@yuseifido5706 I get that, but again, they can be one for one trades, as long as its doing more than JUST a one for one trade.
The best example of a rogue deck is exosisters. Just look at how irrelevant they are now that tear is gone.
Thought on making side decks smaller
I'm pretty sure he's said before that the side deck is often too small to prepare for everything you can face at a major event, although I don't remember if he said it should be bigger or not.
Pank is bad right now because it's at 1. Called by is always played cuz the gy is broken and duster is always played because backrow decks are incredibly relevant rn.
Gee, those board breakers sure are inherently op except no one wants to play them and everyone would rather go first and vomit 4+ monsters with 3000 atk and negates. Let's discuss about these problematic board breakers and what can be done about them.
Personally I hate the very mechanic of speel speed 4 and would prefer for combo decks to be balanced around handtraps instead of board breakers.
Yes they are fair. You either don’t play into Thrust (If the opp deckbuilds to use it that’s fair game Imo) or you lost to a Non-Engine Card. I’m willing to respond to any rebuttals.
I don't really get MBT's point. Blowout cards have been apart of YGO forever, all the way back to Raigeki, Dark Hole, HFD, etc. As the game got quicker and quicker, and the Turn 1 player could put stronger cards on board and gain more resources on field, board breakers became more fundamental to the game. Was it particularly skillful, interactive decision when the Gouki player used HFD on a Labrynth board in YCS London? No. Was it a difficult, skill-intensive choice when that same Labrynth player used Evenly to wipe the Gouki player's board? Nope. Was it a giga brained move for the last game at YCS London to be decided by Incarnate? Not particularly.
But it's necessary. YGO is the card game with perhaps the largest power difference between a going first player and a going second player. Going second players *need* cards to break the board. Hand traps don't always cut it, especially in formats like the one we're currently in. Do you think anyone would have a snowball's chance in Hell against Kash boards? Adams boards? Spright? These type of decks aren't going away. We jumped the shark post-TOSS, and are going to be living with these extreme board advantages.
Personally, I think it's best to accept the all-gas nature of YGO, and its inherit card game variance. Not every game, in fact I'd say a good chunk of games, are going to be decided by skill. Much like in the anime, you're going to have the out or you're not, and that's something that will remain pretty integral, especially as the game further increases in power and speed.
As Joshua goes to point out its a flaw in card design. If every card had some sort of small benefit for going 2nd like Incredible Ecclesia has then suddenly it would not be necessary for board breakers to be so backbreaking.
Floodgates and boardbreakers are 2 sides of the same coin. Deciding whether the game is won or lost with a binary question of do you have the out?
On the other hand we have negates and extenders which shift advantage per copy you drew or managed to put up.
Also important to keep in mind how terrible cards like Dark Ruler, Raigeki, Evenly and co are outside of their perfect scenario. These cards are kept alive by the side deck.
I'd much rather have cards that are decent all around and get bonus effect vs someone who overextends.
His point is simple and in my opinion correct. It’s not about the power of the card in a given format. It’s about the fact that they create hostile gamestates where one person is getting sacked. Feast or famine if you will.
You can’t really give these cards create for solving a problem konami created cause all the blow out cards you listed in the past were banned at one point. Literally every single one was banned for years
Blowout card have ALWAYS been a problem. They still are, it’s just now. We kinda need them to fix a problem that demands it’s on fix.
@@SoraBell And they were all taken *off* the banlist after years of power creep. For Dark Hole and Raigeki, some form of resisting or being immune to destruction became the norm. Similarly, HFD came off the banlist September 2020 when Konami delivered one of the most powerful backrow control decks of all time with Eldlich back in April of the same year. Aren't the cards coming off the banlist saying more about the progressive powercreep of the game, than those cards themselves?
You're right, it can create very saccy and skill-less game states. Konami created the problem with extreme power creep, but banning these cards isn't going to fix that problem.
@@chasing_it_all they were taken off the banlist to solve a problem yugioh shouldn’t have. It’s fair in the sense that. This broken thing is okay if it exist to stop a bigger problem which is the reasons macro cosmos and dimensional fissure went to 3 when Tearlament was full power.
Instead of solving the problem with Tearlament. They chose to introduce another problem and now that Tearlament is gone, those toxic cards that steal games are still legal and will absolutely cause havoc as the game moves forward. It’s just not a healthy way to run a game.
The solution to cause casualties on both sides. Weaken going first tools by restricting what type of cards we print and banning problem cards. Stuff like barrone should be banned not because it’s this Op card but because it’s the type of card that should be locked to a specific archetype. As the game is now, generic cards are too good and yugioh has kind of become an arms race for how much nonsense can I do with my extra deck as opposed to the main deck being vehicle for anything other than engine, and floodgates going first or a ton hand traps and board breakers going 2nd creating a environment where the players goal isn’t to gain advantage by creating a winning gamestate. It’s about how quickly can I tell my opponent they can’t even play the game in the first place or invalidate their attempt at doing so by taking all their resource with one sacky removal card
@@SoraBell I agree with a lot of this.
This is why I said post-TOSS has carried a lot of consequences for the game. These past 2-3 years have been some of the sacciest YGO has ever been. On one hand, decks like Drytron, Adamancipators, and Adventure Tenyi are practically built to weaponize the ED and create unbreakable turn 1 boards. On the other hand, due to the game's large increase in speed, control decks have had to swap to a much larger floodgate based meta. It's the reason why every Labrynth player is running some kind of floodgate, because the alternative is getting crushed, as there's no way modern trap decks can creep up with today's resource accrument. It's pretty telling how the most popular trap cards are 1) a board breaker and 2) basically a quick play spell which negates a monster effect. Actually, they both warp around being a trap card to essentially be spell cards in some form.
This issue also exists outside of those extremes. Midrange decks like Branded are "fair" but their consistency is absolutely nutters, and while they don't have a lot of negates, their disruption count is very high. Swordsoul has the same issue with weaponizing the ED; it would never have been nearly as successful without a generic omni-negate which is BDF, but there's probably a reason she was released alongside Swordsoul (to sell synchros with busted cards, ofc). Protos can also burn in a fire.
Tears has probably been the best thing we have ever had in a competitive sense. No longer are games decided by inherit Turn 1 advantage or a form of "you don't get to play the game" cards, but can now skillfully trade with each other in a form of Turn 0 interactivity. The first turn versus second turn dichotomy was *greatly* decreased. severed. And the board's themselves were extremely durable, but not overly oppressive. It has, in a while, been a genuinely very skillful matchup where experience is rewarded and players don't have to worry about drawing the out.
But... Tears made a far larger problem than it solved; it *murdered* the game. In the sense that if you weren't playing it, you weren't playing at all without some way to lock them out with D-Shifter or Macro Cosmos. And we go right back to floodgating, or praying you have an out to the machine that is Tears. My locals was pretty decimated by their arrival, because, surprise surprise, if all we were going to do was play a skillful mirror match, we'd play chess, not a card game. I had fun at OTS's, but a lot of people just stopped showing up, because they didn't want to play one deck, the anti meta to that deck, or nothing at all.
IMO, there is no amount of skillful interaction that is worth nuking most of a card game whose core is variety. It's anti-thesis to the less competitive environment, and anti-thesis to Konami in wanting to print new cards and make money each quarter. We all knew it was going to be a rugpull, though I personally think giving them the Dragon Ruler treatment was a bit much, and felt kind of scummy with the initial Kash pricing.
That said, I think Tears did a lot right, and I hope it's Konami's sign of starting to shift the game balance in a more Turn 0 interactivity focus, much like Bystials feel like a prototype towards. We know these cards sit about a year or so in R&D, Konami doesn't just make them in a few months and release. So maybe they have similar sets in the future, fingers crossed.
You're absolutely right in the sense that if we archetype-locked very powerful ED monsters, removed floodgates and board breakers to prevent swingy games, cut down on independent engine power, and perhaps even limited some hand traps, the game would be in a much better state. I'd maybe even go a step further and say for MR6, we could experiment with a potential buff to going second players. Is a going second player starting with an extra card in hand *that* egregious? Regardless, we would have a game which is far more slowed down, Mid-Range and Control decks are probably the most dominant, and gone would be the days having to worry about dying the very next turn.
But... that isn't going to happen. We all know hoping Konami does a major shift in the game by banning board breakers, floodgates, and everything in between which has created this zany arms race is a fantasy. Especially since they're continuously printing this kind of stuff anyways. My point on board breakers being a necessity is not on what Konami *can* do to fix the game, but on what they *will* likely continue doing. Which sucks, but that's the state YGO has mostly been in the past couple years.
And as much as I hate to say it, this will probably be the norm.
The nice thing about this series is you can see how completely unaware of how the game works they are. Pankratops comment by coder lol, wouldn't pick him to win a three round local
Coder is actually decent at the game. He would be consistently topping events if he wasnt banned
genuinely how was Coder wrong about Pank? It's a free summon, it's massive, is an immediate 1 for 2 at least and forces your opponent to think without just pressing a "I win lol" button (evenly)
@@helloitsme472 what is pank good against in current format? What about ishtear format? And pote format?
@@anonymouseicecube91 that's not relevant cos that's not what coder is talking about
Yes, objectively, Evenly Matched is a better card than Dinowrestler Pankratops in 9/10 instances. But, again, that's not what is being said.
Coder is saying that design wise, Pank is what going 2nd cards SHOULD be. Cards that force a very interesting and dynamic shift in gameplay that give the 2nd player a fighting chance, but not an instant win button.
further, using Ishtear format as a gotcha against Pank is pretty stupid, cos in that same format, Nib was bad, Dark Ruler was bad, Lava Golem and Sphere Mode were only okay, Lightning Storm was bad, Raigeki was bad.
you can see my point right? every single go 2nd card that either send to the grave by card effect, was terrible in Ishtear format.
the only card that holds any weight for that format is Evenly. cos the card is inherently unfair and an "I win button" except, not really cos Tear had an omni-negate counter trap.
as for POTE, Pank single handedly contended every Spright board and I've already talked about Tear.
current format, yeah Pank doesn't do a whole lot. but that's not what we're saying, as stated
@@anonymouseicecube91 but evenly if it goes off will banish at least 2+ face down much better then pank
I really disagree with Joshua here. The blow out cards are designed to make sure no player goes all in on 1 type of interuption. If you have a field of monster negates you deserve to lose to a blow out card. You need to make sure your end board is 1-2 monster interuptions, 1-2 spell/trap interuptions, 1-2 hand traps and 1-2 graveyard based interuptions like fairy tail snow when it was legal and 1-2 cards for follow up next turn. If anything, the equalizers should be stronger. and yugioh should have a mulligan system so you can more consistently have variety in where your interuptions come from in your end board. I would say cards like evenly and lightning storm are the most unfair because they target both monsters and spells/traps.
Lmao no shit ur trying to auto win with sideboard blow out pieces. Thats how it works in every other TCG?