TYRANIDS VS NECROMORPHS | Warhammer Versus Dead Space
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- čas přidán 20. 10. 2023
- Today on Warhammer VS we shall be pitting two Hive-Mind monsters against one-another!
Colin (@pancreasnowork9939) shall be championing the Tyranid Menace Man whilst Andy ( @TheRemembrancer) shall give praise to the Necromorphs!
Biomass against Convergence? Genestealers or Unitologists? Who will win in this battle between disgusting and terrible consumers of the galaxy?
#tyranids #deadspace #warhammerfantasy #warhammer #40k
EDITED BY: Hal (@TheAmberKing)
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Welcome to Lorecrimes! The collaboration channel of:
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Necromorphs: A planet that eats civilisations
Tyranids: A civilization that eats planets
The hive queen is a planet
Not just eat them but also annihilation the planet itself until everything turn into dust
@@danieltilleru3528there is no hive queen
Technically, necromorphs may be created for extinguishing all living beings, all planets, all moons, everything...a mass extinction weapon.
When a Brethren Moon (also called Blood Moon) is created, necromorphs have enough power for moving the whole planet, the whole moon.
A Brethren Moon is capable of traveling space and go where other Brethren moons are.
For example, in the final game of the Dead Saga, Earth is becoming a Brethren Moon (the convergence process has already started) and there are already 2 Brethren Moons close to the planet.
Dead Space killed Visceral Games, the Tyranids didn't kill Games Workshop. 1-0 for the Nids.
Counterpoint, wouldn't that be a victory for Necromorphs? Otherwise the Swarmlord has a lot of victories against named space marines.
To be fair to Visceral, they were ordered by EA to make dead space more like Mass Effect, because Mass effect made a bucket load of cash.
As a result we got Dead Mass Space Effect 3 instead of just Dead Space 3
YOU....
Tyranids be like: if they didn't want to be eaten, they wouldn't be made out of biomass
lol this is why Tyranids would win. The necromorphs are PURE BIOMASS and have to kill things rk infect them. Two things the Tyranid a would deal with very easily. They gobble up Necromorphs and of their forms die, they could use their acid blood to digest themselves so the Necromorphs couldn’t use them. It would be a blood bath.
@@Tortle-Man also I really doubt the markers are powerful enough to affect the hive mind enough to override it, maybe some gaunts but not synapse creatures I think
@user-cq1cw8xz7f it also works off time. The markers need at least 48 hours for significant change. The tyranids is ready to feast immediately
"The necromorphs are in the trees, man!"
"THE TYRANIDS ARE EATING THE TREES, MAN!!"
Imagine you're the hive mind, thinking you've won, then your bugs start building funny little obelisks in one of the galaxies you conquered
The moment you realize they are wasting resources with a thought they all drop dead and things seem to return to normal yet the spores is landing in weird shapes. Sometimes even clumps. It's not actually noticeable but a strange calming hum is felt inside and around the edges of the Great Hive Mind.
It's not a threat. Not even when the spawning/digestive pools pH balance change. The desire to feed. To grow is strong. The great feeding ships is falling. THIS IS WRONG...no they only wish to get closer to feed. It will be okay.
This planet will be consumed.
Colin saying the best drip of the Tyranids is the Trygon won my vote! His pancreas may not work, but his taste in style is overclocked!
Love how the discussion of them actually fighting is like: "Don't know how it will go because both sides will change so much in the conflict."
Tyranids vs Necromorphs. Whoever wins, we lose.
The main thing I think is that if the Necromorphs show up they can be fought off with reasonable effort in a realistic futuristic setting.
If the Tyranids show up you’re fucked even in 40k
The thing is, you can’t really kill a necromorph unless you can manage to literally deatomize it wholesale. The reason they you cut off their limbs in game is because you aren’t killing them, you’re immobilizing them
@@harryquint7262still better than Tyranids who sends an entire battalion to eat you and your planets in the first wave
If you're lucky they might send the Genestrealers or Lictors first so you have time to enjoy the last moments
Because sooner or later the Tyranids fleet will arrive on your planet and there is no way to stop it
@@harryquint7262 necromorph are getting absorb and recycle into a tyranids warrior
@@Zealoth1800
or vice versa
@@harryquint7262Oh hey, funny green guns you got there necrons what does it do to biomass? Its gone? Oh hey imperial melta and flamers what happened to that mass? Its gone, just ashes? Oh hey, bright lances what happened to the biomass oh its gone. Oh hey exterminatus, what happened to the biomass, it is just a barren planet now? I think it is pretty conclussive that the necromorphs are only immortal because of the level of tech they have to compete with. Halo universe would wreck the guys. Sure they guardians are immortal to projectiles, it just doesn't matter once energy weapons are vaporizing matter.
I played Dead Space before I did anything 40k related, but from hearing this, it reminds me of a debate in farming over hunting...the Necromorphs will passively and occasionally actively encourage and develop a civilization, then harvest it, where as Tyranids just devour and move, so it sounds like even if the Tyranids were to just eat a solar system, the Necromorphs are more sustainable.
I’d think they’d merge. When a mommy hive mind and a daddy hive mind hold hands ungloved…
Who’s the top? or power bottom?
I think in the last hunt there is a tyranid ship mentioned that it’s maw could encompass a MOON!
Back with the God Emperor tier content
More like back with Four Armed God Emperor Tier content.
Can we all just agree that Nid-necromorphs would go so incredibly hard?
Terromophs?
Imagine the amount of horror when even their bio modified dead are getting back up
What would happen if a tyranid organism incorporated the necromorph supercell through eating it? I am thinking about the starving soldiers on Tau Volantis.
Nids that eat necromorphs would become feeder necromorphs and the hivemind itself would be disrupted from the marker signal screwing with the synapse creatures that make it up. The necromorphs are more like the flood than the nids when it comes down to it.
The one issue with this is shadow in the warp, if thet can disrupt magical connection and transmissions I would believe the marker signal wouldnt get through either.
@@_NutcasE_ They literally solidify the fabric between the warp and realspace making warp travel impossible. I can't see a world where the marker energy is more expansive, powerful and/or infective than the literal hell that is transposed upon our reality.
@@kylejobes1330 agreed, its just hard to see a version where necromorphs would get an advantage, I know andy relied heavily on adaption but Tyranids adapt in real time all the time. And Tyranids havent been really defeated just pushed back and thats only because the prey is now aware its being hunted. Brother moons were stopped with a stasis so the whole "they are gods" angle dies there. Not to mention Isaac literally killed one shortly after awakening.
Why would a bunch of electromagnetic pulses disrupt a psionic signal, though? Why would a Tyranid, a being that is hyper-specialised to receive, send, and act according to psionic signalling, even notice the funny space rock essentially just blasting "Make You lose Control" through EMPs at it?
I don't think the Shadow In The Warp would disrupt the Marker's signal, but I don't think the opposite would happen either. One's basically just longer radio wave broadcasting, the other's psychic-space-magic that explicitly isn't a form of wave to begin with. They simply don't operate in the same spaces.
@@thedarkesper5290 you do realize that humans were able to detect the marker signal right? Shadow in the warp is not EMP you bint. Its a supernatural warp ability that prevents not just normal comms but supernatural ones. Do you know what comms need? A signal. And this thing disrupts the hell itself to keep systems isolated. And you are like "I dOnT sEe HoW DiSrUpTiNg CoMmS tHrOuGh UsE oF lItErAl HeLl WoUlD dIsRuPt ThE vErY gRoUnDeD mArKeR sIgNaL" brother moons and necromorphs are very grounded enemy they can be stopped and contained by singular cycle going like "ok fuck that noise lets stasis these bitches" Tyranids are galactic devourer we know that they are massive but dont know how massive. We know they can beat and adaot to hell and use the hell to stop any and all signals, mortal or immortal from calling aid, we know that tyranids will adapt on the spot so even if this marker signal gets to some of them the hive is gonna go "oh thats cute, try that now" and after that who is gonna build a replacement marker? The undead clawhands being devoured? And what would be the point?
The Tyranids have built a moon-sized ship of their own by the end of Leviathan. They can turn off daemons just by thinking at them hard enough. They absolutely take this, both physically and on the mental level.
Brethren Moons are actually about the size of Mars
@@deadman9335 That's just a planet-sized ball of meat as far as the Tyranids are concerned.
@@akuinator6350 being near them is a death sentence and if they want you to stop existing, they will crush you with gravity, a premature Brethren Moon which was not completely and therefore not at full power was able to rip the surface of a planet off yet could not out right kill Isaac. A complete Brethren Moon killed him instantly at a glance after fucking with him from across the galaxy for hours because it wanted to.
To put the gravity powers into perspective, a single red marker shard in the palm of your hand can hold a planet together that was trying to explode and upon containing it, aegis 7 exploded in the movie Deadspace aftermath. A red marker is the weakest, a black marker is way more powerful, and a Brethren Moon is a black marker that has ascended into a Brethren Moon, a mass which consist of biomass, some markers, and chunks of the planet's surface they were formed from, with a size of around 4000 miles whide and around 8000 miles in length at the tips of their tentacles.
No, the size of the Brethren Moon (Blood Moon) depends on the size of the body (planet, moon, etc) that it parasites.
Brethren Moon can be as big as the biggest body (planet, moon, etc) on the universe.
Daemon? Tyranid Hive Mind?....
What if necromorphs are blank/null? It would allow them to be more difficult to defeat.
Do necromorph have presence in the Warp? Do necromorphs have "soul"?
Necromorphs aren't even alive.
The Necromorphs feed on sapient live.
Tyranids feed on all life. Biggest difference haha!
Sapient life is their bread and butter, but they have been known to turn any dead matter into a necromorph. A dead fish was turned into a necromorph and proceeded to tear into other fishes in Dead space: Martyr. Dogs have also been observed in Dead Space 3 as a form of the lurker.
But they need sapient life to build a marker
Necromorphs use all living beings (alive or dead). It uses plants, biological waste...anything.
No, necromorphs don't depend on the existence of sapient lifes.
The markers modify the DNA of all living beings.
A Brethren Moon already has a marker (or markers) on it. When a Brethren Moon attacks a planet/moon/etc, the marker does the job.
A 3 way battle between the nids , necromorphs and the flood would be amazing
Look fair fight but the current Tyranids are too broken even for the 40k universe standard
Because they can create special fleets to adapt and deal with the influence of chaos
They also created new types that could use psychic energy such as the Doom Of Malantai
@@MinoTaurus205 that’s true but question is could the flood infect a tyranid
Honestly the way I see it if the flood can just overwhelm the necromorphs they will have the mass to actually deal with the tyranids whether by attacking the hive mind with their key minds or just by consuming tyranid biomass. If they can’t get started then they are fucked by the tyranid as they simply lack the knowledge and power to stand up to the nids.
I'm pretty sure if the necromorphs met the nids the nids would pull out some random species' adaptation from a galaxy on the other side of the observable universe that hard counters them lol
The nids would eat them and probably turn into a necromorph. This happens to ppl in dead space 3
@@user-ew7vj3hw9m that's kinda a no limits fallacy since what works on a human in dead space won't necessarily happen to the Tyranids. Who have the norn queens to have the nids to not just bloat into abominations of the countless species their genome has before dying.
Like a basic human is orders upon orders of magnitude less complex than just a gaunt.
Making that argument null especially if it takes time for humans to turn to necromorphs after eating one
@@petra4385 it’s probably a matter of happens when they eat them, if nothing nids win if it corrupts them then maybe necromorphs win. Tbf we seen what the max level necromorph is which is the moon, we haven’t seen the biggest nid which I think they can get to a similar size as a moon idr.
@@user-ew7vj3hw9m the biggest nid is apparently like planet or moon sized. A thing that was shown in the newest storyline with them where we voted for who took over a planet. Also a singular ship's size doesn't make it more or less likely to win. Since having a sun's worth of biomass in moons or islands floating in space isn't much of a difference.
Tyranids vs Necromorphs really just boils down to whether or not Tyranids can adapt to the Necromorph infection. If they answer is yes, then I think the Tyranids win, though only narrowly because every dead Tyranid = 1 new Necromorph. If the answer is no, then Necromorphs win, and rather rapidly, as they subvert the biomass of the Tyranid fleets and use it against them with ease.
Edit: Also the Tyranids could easily make markers, they just wouldnt do it the same way humans do....they would grow them rather than build them.
They can, they even adapted to Nurgel pleague
The only reason they're lose is because they need time to adapt
but every necromorph dead is one nid
@@ouchpotato2221necromorphs can't die tho. If you blended one you would just have living soup. As far as it's organic and its near a marker it's permanently necromorph material. Tyranids straight up die and become necromorphs. Biomass you can never use to make new tyranids. That's all assuming that they can't infect tyranids which is a big reach considering its stated to work on all thinking beings.
Necromorphs infection vector rewrite the neurons it not just a infection
I think the best way to summarize the Necromorph strategy is that they're farming on an interstellar scale
In a weird debate, it felt like neither side had a good grasp of what either side was capable of.
Imagine a hivefleet eats a brother moon and gains its ability to control corpses.
I honestly don't see how the Tyranids could be beaten.
The Tyranids hivemind is insanely intelligent far more so than how it's generally depicted.
Even get hints how it's operating on a scale that is so unfathomable to comprehend, how its thoughts encompass star systems and how alien its mind works.
Every character who interacts with it is interpreting its motives and actions.
Tyranids also eat more than life. It eats all relevant matter, including minerals resources and even necrodermis of the Necrons.
Another part that's scary about the Tyranid hivemind is how it knows the minds of its food. It knows what motivates and what living species hold most sacred.
I don't see anyway in which the Tyranids hivemind doesn't consume the necrotic flesh of the necromorphs and doesn't just learn from there how it all works.
The nids never eat necrodermis, to do consume other elements though.
@@jonathanathor117 They do actually. Lore writers on the GW twitch stream said so.
The Tyranids don't even need to eat a necromorph to know how they work, because the Marker's create necromorphs by all but screaming the blueprints out via EMP until dead tissue receiving it starts looking funky and undead.
They just need to crack a signal every Marker starts blasting once, and suddenly they have the necromorph source code to play around with at their leisure.
@@thedarkesper5290 Yeah, it's also not known exactly how old the Tyranid hivemind is. In devastation of Bhaal the Lichters introduction had a monologue on how it has been the architect of thousands of genocides on its own.
There is something far more powerful and godlike behind the Tyranids and I love how it's only shown in these tiny glimpses.
Some of what the Tyranids do is still unknown, given how it cannibalises itself periodically. As if it is stopping a possible cancerous growth in its body.
The idea of it being one gigantic organism with the Tyranid fleets being just its cells as part of its galactic sized body.
It is easy to understand why the Silent King believes them to be such a monumental threat.
The only reason they lost this far is because the writers don't want them to win
We need a vs. Collab with Grim Dark (half off) for a Sigmar whilst mortal against Conan. A real barbarian king scuffle.
I assume the tyranids will win since,
1) food won't fight if it is eaten
2) Shadow in the warp protcts them from the infection
3) They can create tractics rather than rushing like a zombie hoard
Saying Tyranids would adapt is the equivalent of the "Batman with prep time" argument.
Basically just saying that the writer could contrive a way for them to win.
I wonder how the nids would react when they first consume the corrupted flesh
Just remember that Tyranids has adapted to magical things such as Chaos influence and the Nurgle Plague
If Necromorphs only affect physically and genetically then Tyranids will not be seriously affected
Tyranids hive minds are just connected to each other like one common consciousness so it's impossible for Necromorphs to influence them
I wouldn't go quite so far as to say its "impossible" for the hive mind to be influenced. One thing we know about the tyranids is that their organisms consume their fallen foes as they progress. Would these individual organisms, or even the hive mind connected to said organism, experience a similar change in mental state as the Sovereign Colonies soldiers on Tau Volantis did when consuming the flesh of dispatched necromorphs after they ran low on (if not out of) food. It has been too long since I played Dead Space 3 so those kinds of details are getting a bit blurry.
Would the tyranid organism that consumed the necromorph flesh also begin to seek out means to "make itself whole" with the other tyranid organisms around it?
@@tyranidslayer4848 They're smart enough to not consume someone who got infected by Chaos, especially Nurgle plague
Because they know it's will be bad for the hive fleet and not worth it to consume
I'm sure they won't do the same to Necromophs once they realized they're too dangerous to consume
Also Tyranids could fight in microorganisms level like they did to Orks spore in Octarius War
So they definitely know how to counter Necromophs
Necromorph rewrite neural and have different infection vectors like signals super cells ect
Next vs should be Tyrion and/or Teclis vs Pelinal Whitesrake.
Also; A Song For Pelinal by Golden God is the perfect song for anyones next family gathering killing elves.
I think this is the same argument that like necromorphs vs the flood has. A video I watched said if it was form being of each infection necromorphs. But the flood either way. Buts it's hard to judge the effects the markers would have.
Tyranids could adapt to mainly use acid and melt themself on death which they could slurp back up
Here's a versus match up: Khorne, tzeench, nurgle or slaanesh vs the knight from hollow knight
Watch as the saying "you cannot kill a god!" Be torn in half as the knight killed a god before and even ascended into a god of gods via the godhome ending.
Picture a scene of khorne sitting on his throne and be challenged by a tiny bug... and khorne then accepts this challenge by the small knight.
Interesting but here's the problems
You cannot defeat or even kill chaos Gods in Warhammer40K
Because they represent aspects such as war, disease, deception, and lust
If there is a way to stop them then what you can do is destroy all living and intelligent creatures in the universe.
That way their influence will stop because no one will give them power but the problem is
Can you do it? In a universe full of war and creatures that are almost impossible to kill
Even after you kill all intelligent creatures that doesn't mean the chaos Gods will disappear
So you have to be reeeeeeaaaaalllllyyyyyyyy Over Power character to destroy the chaos Gods
@@MinoTaurus205i remember look at slaneesh she just popped into being in 40k now if you want to go “well she was there since fantasy” we don’t know if 40k is actually connected to fantasy and AoS especially since in AoS Slaneesh is imprisoned. They also aren’t key parts of the universe they represent and embody these aspects but the aspects existed before them they are chaotic manifestations of these forces
I would love a Dragon Age vs. That would be cool.
Imo it would become a huge cycle of two biomass swarms adapting to each other, and everyone else gets screwed in the croasfire
For once, I put my vote on Andy.
Another thing is that, the Necromorphs need sentient species to grow, so like tyranids can munch on planets full of just trees and animals
Fun topic, fun format, loved the music too!
The Tyranids win if they don't consume the necromorphs after defeating them.
TL;DR: It's basically a question of if "Funny space radio" is going to beat "Mind Over Matter Space Magic" in a fight of "who can control minds better?".
Space Magic. The space magic wins. It's not even close.
This fight is a stomp for the Nids, and it's all down to the specifics of HOW the Marker infects you, as well as their general modus operandi. It basically just broadcasts a spicy electromagnetic-radio broadcast that you subconsciously hear, and then manipulates you through that. The most impressive thing about these signals is they can somehow be FTL in certain circumstances, though they can't seemingly use them as an infection vector at those distances- only communicate between Markers.
Tyranids, the soldiers, are controlled mentally through a synapse creature- which is itself a relay for the Hive Mind. In a sense, they act as the Tyranid's Markers. These send direct, psychic signals/commands from the central mind all Tyranids are a apart of to the various metaphorical fingers and limbs that make up the army.
How would a Marker do anything to a creature that's so hyper-specifically primed to respond to psionic signalling? The effect is probably incredibly muted, if there's an effect at all, because the Tyranid footsoldier is just simply not built to accommodate electromagnetic pulses as a control format. If a Marker signal got in, there's even odds that the Hive-Mind wouldn't even need to actively do anything- because any level of influence the Marker has is hard-overridden by even the most minor of psychic order- something the Hive-Mind is constantly churning out, because each Tyranid organism is functionally a remote controlled drone.
If they aren't immune by default just due to being hyperfocused on transmitting and receiving psychic signals, it's still almost trivially easy to circumvent the Marker infection vector from the Nid' perspective. Literally just harden the brain against those kinds of electromagnetic wave- which they don't use in any capacity, so they lose nothing from it- or just make a special set of small neurones that plays Freebird using those same electromagnetic signals whenever they receive a Marker signal, preventing them from even getting a coherent message. They have complete, freeform manipulation over the physiology of their drones and can adapt essentially on the fly to new methods of warfare in tactical terms. 'Make brain respond less to the mean radio signals' is easy for them.
On top of that, even if a necromorph outbreak does occur for a brief instant, it won't amount to much. The Marker's create necromorphs by essentially screaming the exact specifics for how to build them over an open comm, which causes dead tissue to start changing into necromoprh tissue.
They, in essence, tell you exactly what they're trying to do in excruciating detail if you can decode their signal. Something the Hive-Mind is likely more than capable of doing, and rather easily, because it's a super-intelligence.
Any would-be 'necromorph outbreak' would quickly get reabsorbed back into the greater Tyranid swarm when a bunch of Norn-Queens read their literal blueprints, broadcasted over an open comm I must stress, and create an entirely new mutation, or even Tyranid breed, that trivialises the concept of a necromorph. To add insult to injury, they might even just outright make their own, superior version using the necromorph tissue's blueprints- which they have THE EXACT BLUEPRINTS FOR BECAUSE THE BRETHREN MOONS DON'T PRACTICE OP-SEC- as a reference.
Nids win. Hard. Basically everything the Brethren Moons/Necromoprhs/Markers have is either easy for the Tyranid's to circumvent, can be adapted to quickly, or probably wouldn't work to begin with.
The best outcome for the Brethren Moons is that the Tyranids never figure out how to trace a Marker signal back to the source, and then leave their galaxy picked completely clean of even the most basic life. Sure, the Brethren Moons might then just be doomed to die of starvation because there's literally nothing left to become a star faring civilization, and won't be for a likely ludicrous amount of time, but it's better than getting eaten I guess.
My thoughts: necromorphs might get some nids...but, tyranids would pull through as long as brethren moons are not at play yet (at which point it becomes a bit more fair game)
My thoughts are this: tyranids would just deploy bioorganisims to break down and reclaim biomass as they engage the necromorphs. The necromorphs take the dead and "adapt" what is there...but the nids evolve and can create new bioforms to engage a threat. It would be a feast for the nids with time...and once all the biomass is gone...markers would not come into play due to individual tyranids being animals basically, and the hivemimd as a whole so incomprehensibly large that it would not effect them to a significant extent...aside from this the nids have NO REASON to use the markers in the same way conventional races do...they don't need conventional energy, they need biomass and biomass is gained from eating worlds. A marker effectively puts a cap on biomass and turns necrotizing biomass into a threat with time or screwing around...thus tyranids would probably yeet the markers into a sun or blackhole to ensure organics don't come across them (afterall...if a galaxy is dead nextime you might stop around for a feeding...there is less to consume to keep the hive going)
I wonder if you snipe out the Synapse creatures so the remaining nids turn feral, would they be influenced by the Markers to go full psychotic against everything or the other non-technical effects of the Markers? My memory is rusty so I should also ask how long it takes Necromorphs to reanimate someone considering I know in the Original Dead Space, you encounter the guy who dies at the start of the game about halfway through as a Necromorph so depending on the time scale of the game, it could be a contest for rippers to fully disassemble all the corpses before they can come back.
@consolescrub4031 to answer both your questions...
If a nid were to go psychotic it wouldn't amount to much as ultimately a single nid basically is at most a feral animal that desires to reconnect to the hive mind...the second it does marker influence likely overridden (if not the creature is likely recycled into biomass for more creatures to spawn)
As for your second question its variable from everything we have seen, the virus itself seems more like a caveat but from what is seen its exposure to active necromorph tissue (or exposure overtime) that causes the conversion into an actual necromorph. In most cases its likely either one of two factors...either A the creep/crawl (which is necromorph tissue made out of basically any biomass it can accumulate (including dead skin cells) that forms on surfaces) or necromorph tissue comes in contact with a body with enough functional material to mutate into a combat form (a process that takes time...not much, but enough that it probably couldn't keep up with the nids devouring) or through specifically designed necromorphs such as infectors that inject a dose of already active and very potent necromorph tissue into a target or maybe the dividers that seem to more to hijack a body and its functions more like a puppet as its insides convert.
In the later case though...it reaches the problem of a adapting and intelligent hivemind...those that can perform conversions will likely be targeted with smaller masses of bioforms that they can't forseably convert all as they are eaten alive, those that do survive start to discover that more armored forms of nids are coming towards them...maybe horifyingly enough they inject the nids only to discover the insides have developed aggresive immune systems to combat the necrotizing foreign tissue...or even acidic blood that ruins the propoboscis they use to inject...and if the hive mind is smart, they just make the outer exoskeleton very hard and leave inner bones rather weak as any that they turn can't develop good enough probosices internally to pierce through said armor...
Bluntly, necromorphs are flesh...reanimated flesh sure, but still biomass. Its less a war of attrition when your foe has the recources to lose, and they are developing countermeasures to every move you are making...when every single "gain" you make is the equivalent of an idiot at best compared to a malicious calculating inteligence that is thinking the most practical and effective way to devour you before moving on. It's really hard to think of a comparison honestly for just how ultimately long term outmatched the necromorphs can be.
@@thechangeling3851 We don't really see feral nids return to the hivemind in any stories do we? They usually either get cleaned up or go rampage on their own which could be beneficial to the Necromorphs. Of course, if the Hivemind has backup synapse creatures on a secondary fleet along the lines of Behemoth, there wouldn't be a problem but that's a strategy that doesn't expect significant battles which would already either be beneficial to the Necromorphs or the nail in the coffin if the nids are already winning with half their force. If there's no synapse creatures left, I think it's a fair assumption that the Necromorphs will be able to claim at least some if not all of the biomass.
Don't get me wrong, I anticipate ripper swarms would consume bodies faster than the Necromorphs reanimate them. My musing there was more along the lines of during pitched battles with numerous casualties on both sides, some will probably start standing back up before the rippers can get to them and this would presumably escalate as the scale of the fight increases and there's jut less surface area of bodies the rippers can reach without becoming part of the combat (people have definitely found remains after nid attacks such as how they found the Ultramarines first company at Macragge's polar fortress so the rippers presumably take some time to come in).
I think the Hivemind would likely be able to adapt to any Necromorph forms it encounters although I would be curious whether the Necromorphs can do a degree of assimilating back like when they manage to incorporate the stasis devices from the marines in the first game. It does ultimately come down to a case of cost effectiveness though as the Hivemind is only going to bother modifying it's troops if it thinks it will either increase future biomass or save existing biomass in the long run. Presumably units like hormagaunts would likely be left largely unchanged unless they were being sent after more specialised Necromorphs.
I think you're correct in your assessment that the Necromorphs are outmatched at anything approaching similar numbers (it's slightly ridiculous to compare them at one planet's infestation to a significant slice of the galaxy) although I am curious if the most advanced Necromorphs are capable of strategising on a level, if not at the Hivemind level then at least around the level of the Swarmlord. We know Brethren moons are capable of communicating so it's probable they have at least a degree of strategy at that stage.
Interestingly the advantage I can potentially see them having aside from the tech difference and the passive reanimation (which worked pretty well for the Tomb Kings in fantasy it must be said) is their natural durability (they're already dead, I seem to recall in the game you only sever most creatures limbs and leave before they can regenerate which presumably foils assassin units like the Deathleaper) and their individualism with their network. The Hivemind has tactical acumen but no one, with the possible exception of the Swarmlord, to check it's plans and spot it's mistakes. Therefore any mistakes in the Hivemind's strategy have to be realised in the field rather than in speculation which can cost biomass. The counterpoint to this is that naturally the Hivemind makes decisions faster but given the moons are telepathic and communicate at the speed of thought, I can't imagine the delay is long (this does lead into the speculation point of whether they would be susceptible to the Shadow in the Warp though). I don't think this would be anywhere near enough to swing it in the Necromorphs favour but it's not as one sided as I initially thought unless I'm missing key details.
I was originally going to note that most nids are incapacitated when in the void of space, unless specially adapted while Necromorphs aren't (War in the Museum showed a hive tyrant who got freeze-dried by the trip through space, whereas Necromorphs are content to follow Isaac out into space to ruin his day) but I'm discounting that as apparently nitrogen was enough to stop the regenerating Hunter.
Tyranids: hive mind gets invaded by the ultramarine librarian with malcador staff
Necromorph: gets dismantled by a love sick 50 something middle aged man
Moral of the story I want a war between the two and I would argue the necromorphs would throw hands with necrons and worst case for everyone a fusion between two solos all fiction I don’t like doomslayer wants the problems
Trynids got more versatility and more badass versions of Warriors so I’ve gotta give them props
Are you debating you debating viablilty in universe or a head to head fight?
Yes
I feel like this battle comes down to which meat grinder makes the more dangerous hamburger, but im rooting for the Nids
For a real answer, the Tyranids Hivemind and the Necromorphs Brethren Moons would ally themselves and then end the 40k Galaxy
To explain my reasoning, the Brethren Moons act as God like hiveminds in a similar way to how the Flood does. Same with the tyranids to an extent, where it's so intelligent that it actively chooses to not talk to the other factions of the galaxy.
So I propose this:
A Tyranid Hivemind, Necromorph Brethren Moon, and a Flood Keymind walk into a bar, combine themselves into one super-hivemind, and eat the galaxy in 10 years max
The biggest problem with w/ the necromorphs imo is that the tyranids have the Shadow in the Warp thing going- they can't fall to or be influenced by chaos, so why would the marker be any different?
Maker signal rewrite dna structure and have many different infection vectored
I wonder how the necrons would view the Brethren Moons due to their veneration of death. I would give the fight to the Brethren Moons over the Hive mind just due to the lack of ability to fight something on that scale. Yes Tyranids can strip planets of all of its Mars Bars and necco wafers, but that's not much help when the very ground you walk on can eat you and the hive ship you came in on.
There is the question of tyranid adaption, and even if the tyranids can adapt to resist the marker signal, and that's a big if considering the vast difference in intelligence and strength as the full weight of the hive mind isn't behind every single tyranid, I do believe progress can be made. Whether that progress can negate the Brethren Moon's early advantages against tyranids, I can't say for sure and that is always the sticking point with crossovers. The strength of that eventual adaptation and its potency will deciding factor in the endgame.
There is also the issue of tyranids being the punching bag of the universe. Want your character to look cool? Eliminate a splinter fleet of tyranids. Purge a gene stealer cult. Resist the local horde invasion. While this is more of a symptom of GW's propensity for terrible writing than actual tyranid strength, I think Dead Space's outlook is much bleaker. The best Issac can do is break even. All he can do is keep his mind or resist the lure of divulging earth's location. That's the true tragedy of Dead Space 3: humanity loses. Even if Issac thwarts them, that's *billions* dead, and another brother among their ranks.
I would like to bring up Collin's line about the Flood vs. WH40K: "I think the Imperium's massive scale would screw them over in this case in both the large scale and the small scale." To corrupt a planet and force a convergence event to birth another Brethren Moon, they don't need to be physically there; they just need a marker. This would result in one thing, however, due to the setting's technological level: all the major players would *immediately* know some shit is going on. I don't think they would know the scale of the threat just yet, but you can't hide eight trillion planets all getting meteor sightings and then madness as Brethren Moons catapult those bitches across space.
While this action would immediately raise some alarms, I don't think it would be enough to help the Imperium, Eldar, or anyone else getting a marker or the codes to build their own. There are just too many planets in 40K at the tech level and degree of population that the Necromorphs need to create a convergence event. Even if only a hundredth of a percent of the codes and markers the Brethren Moons send out result in a convergence event, I think that's more than enough due to the sheer devastation a single Brethren Moon can rought. I think necromorphs in the Imperium would result in more empty, dead space.
Now this weaves around the main focus of this video with the Necromorphs and Tyranids going mono y mono. That fight I believe would depend on how far the tyranids adapt, and that I can't answer. I hope my take on this makes internet nerds happy.
great episode! well done Colin
Good thing to choose necrolorphs instead of something like zerg, because in that instance it would be the same argument on both sides
More a discussion on how GW didn't stop them from making their ripoff.
@@ShadowFox178 It’s not like GW invented the “hive/insect/alien” trope. Alien and Starship Troopers (the novel) came out before they made their first appearance in Rogue Trader back in 89’. I doubt GW was eager to open that can of worms given all their own “inspirations”.
@ShadowFox178
Welp looks like this unit pathing function I made for that game won’t be taking place… oh well I guess I’ll throw away all my work not repurpose the concept…
@user-cq1cw8xz7f
Unfortunately the Tyranids beat the Zerg by roughly a decade. They came out around 1980 in Space hulk as Gene stealers. And again in 1993's 40K 2nd edition where they were first featured.
Starcraft was planned by Blizzard in 1995, with the game finally being released 3 years later in March 1998.
So it's fairly possible that Blizzard ripped off GW's Tyranids (Which isn't saying much since some say GW ripped off Aliens in the form of Space Hulk. But I can't confirm this rumor.). There's also a rumor that Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer Fantasy game but couldn't get the rights to it, hence we got Warcraft instead.
I guess game companies just rip off each other or other settings. Looks like it's just the name of the game.
Tyranids should win, and here is why...
Shadow in the warp is the tyranids essentially overwhelming everything with a psychic presence.
Tyranids wouldn't be taken over in droves because the sheer presence of the hive mind would maintain control over its own units.
Furthermore, the tyranids have far more in the moment adaptability.
- The enemy is shooting big lasers. Okey, I'll immediately create a biological creature to counter it. 5min later they are immune to lasers or have a tactic that counters it.
Furthermore, currently we've only seen tyranid tendrils. For all intent and purposes, we are comparing how necromorphs would do against the pinky of the tyranids.
Basicly the brother moons only got involved and personal with earth because Isaac stopped the preferred method. And like the civilization before were too aware of them for the marker to work, making the point that necromorphs can be stopped when aware, meanwhile with nids you just know how you are going to die and where your biomass ends up. also there was a lorebit about a ravenguard seeing a tyranid form so big that blocked his vision to a planet in the 10th edition tyranid war.
Meanwhile the Flood are watching this fight going down and enjoying the "sweetness"
The flood is interesting cause once they get 1-2 key minds, they would have an edge over the nids due to their power being able to just fuck the nid fleets with portals they can’t handle. But starting out they probably would just be exterminated if given time they would dominate thanks to their hive mind being better than the nid but needing a lot of biomass to form.
Tyranids ate the Squats, at least..
I feel like the shadow in the warp could possibly completely counter the markers effects rendering the necromorphs kinda just fucked
You need to do flood v tyranids next
see now u need to do the tyrinids vs the flood
Necromorphs and Tryanids: orgy of violence and consumption and screaming madness.
Necrons: Right. Nerts to this. We're leaving.
In Warhammer 40k you can kill gods, its hard to do but it happens. Keep up the awesome work you guys!
Oh yeah if you count the ctan as gods.
@@jonathanathor117beings able to create their own extra dimensions along with warping space time on a whim.
Pretty godlike.
@@ShadowFox178 honestly the ctan are basically captain atom's evil extended family and for those who don't know who captain atom is, he a dc superhero who can hold his own against superman if not beat him.
@@jonathanathor117C'than literally a cosmic gods so still count
The Tyranids also have planet sized biomasses
There's a big thing that I think was getting people tripped up and which I think makes the case for the Tyranids even stronger. The Tyranid Hivemind isn't a true hivemind. It's an Overmind. It has aspects of hivemind behaviors, but it has an overall driving intelligence, which can even possess individual Tyranid bioforms, as seen when that Blood Angels Chaplain was being stared down by a particular form and felt the weight of the gaze of the godly mind behind those eyes.
This was pretty awesome and closer than I thought it would be. Fantastic! Now go battle royale mode and add Halo-verse's The Flood to the mix
maybe do a bunch of small versus? odsts vs cadians, promethians vs necrons, an entire world of grunts vs an entire world of grots?
Hey my names Collin too. Man I love Dead Space and Tyranids!
Now do Morphs versus Flood.
I think I’m strongly on Colin’s (Pancreas’s) side here. While it is true the Necromorphs COULD invade the Hive Mind itself, what’s stopping the Hive Mind from adapting a resistance to the Marker Signal? Or on the topic of the whole dead Tyrannids being revived as Necromorphs, what’s stopping them from evolving a process where the bodies of dead Tyrannids are rendered unusable in some way? No matter how you slice it, the Tyrannid ability to quickly and effectively adapt to their enemy renders the entire Necromorph gameplan purely moot, once the Hivemind realizes that the Necromorphs have this power, they are going to just simply adapt and make the Brethren Moons a mild roadblock and all-you-can-eat Banquet.
Lorcecrime Do you think tyranids can take on the Zerg or xenomorphs?
people forget that the brother moons made the markers to cultivate civilizations to be harvestable. their presence causes a species to advance similarly.
So the possibility of the markers fucking with the Nids is Really, really low as the nids were not partly made to conform as humanity was to be livestock.
Somebody call HiddenXperia and get the Flood in here!
I feel like this would be a battle of hive minds like nids eat necromorphs and then it gets funky. Can the nids hear the marker can it interact with their dna. Think of the horror of a necromorph infect hive fleet. No thanks.
Try Tyranids vs flood?
Honestly, I'd say necromorphs win. Far as we know, brethren moons don't feed, they breed. The whole video ended with a close win for the tyranids while focusing mostly on a hive fleet vs marker fight. Problem: a marker during a necromorph outbreak is litteraly preparing to become a brethren moon. There a debate on whether a tyranid hive fleet fighting during a necromorph outbreak could even manage to beat the brethren moon equivalent of a fetus nearing birth.
Also, the whole outbreak works in a very similar way to a genestealer cult, except there's no patriatch, only the marker: people exposed to its signals will either start to go insane and go on killing sprees, and the ones able to resist will be compelled to build new markers. Depending on the situation, planets can become completely destabilized and unable to make a proper defense force even before the first necromorph rises up.
A battle between necromorphs and tyranids is a literal battle of attrition, except tyranid hive fleets depend on their norn queens and biomass reserves to pump out new and improved troops, while every gram of dead flesh is a potential resource that is usable by the marker to make new and improved necromorphs, especially once a hive mind is already present, which I'd say is a pretty fair comparison to a hive fleet.
Necromorphs also accelerate evolution of primative species so they probably reseed
At the end of the day Kirby can 1 v 2 these factions at the same time no contest
It's actually stated in Dead Space that the markers have a greater effect on stupid people, and we know the signal can be resisted as evidence of Isaac and the characters we meet like Ellie, Carver and Dr. Kyne. Isaac destroys the Titan station marker by defeating the mental influence it has within his mind, and destroys a brethren moon and its marker in Dead Space 3 by having it crash into the planet. I don't think the marker signals can beat the hive mind if individual humans can give it a hard time.
Two things, nids havev the Warp and the hive mind.
Y'all missed the point for how the marker works.
It's something that can be used as a source for infinite energy without any fuel needed. That's great for most species who travel space in ships made of steel but the nids don't need fuel they just need food meaning they would probably just chuck the marker into the sun or leave it behind somewhere
The nids might not be affected due to the nature of minds and their psychic power so the marker might not affect them or infect them. It might only be the necromorph forms that could infect them.
The brethren moons are just 7 key minds in flood terminology which is really bad but at the end of the day the brethren moons can't warp space as far as we know, they can only travel faster then light which is not a massive deal when the warp exists. If Issac Clark was able to fight back against these moons as a guy with a engineering degree I don't see why a hive fleet couldn't.
And if they were a god he wouldn't have been able to at all, and they would have eaten civilization themselves.
Also remember the necromorphs don't have faster then light travel that's just the brethren moons and while that is op what is a brethren moon gonna do when it gets stuck in a hive fleet.
Both focus on eating other species for bio mass and both gain intelligence from it but the hive fleets are larger then the brethren moons by many times over.
Could the Sith Technovirus overtake the ‘Nids?
Isn't the Technovirus basically the Sith's version of the Obliterator Virus?
I'd like to add a few things in defenceman of the necromorphs.
One is that, yes, the hive mind is powerful enough to psykers insane or pop their heads, but I think something with the brain the size of a continent (probably bigger, the Brethren Moons are huge) could withstand that. Another is that as we've seen in Dead Space and Zombie media in general, consuming undead biomass is a /REALLY/ bad idea. And the tyranids have actually encountered things that are too toxic for them to eat before. The death guard and tyranids once fought over a world and the Gifts of Nurgle and tyranid toxins combined turned the world into a mess of diseases and poisons so potent that the hive mind ordered the destruction of the first hive ship that tried to feed on it. Imagine an entire hive fleet turning into Feeders. This would mean that not only do the Necromorphs get one soldier from every tyranid killed, they tyranids might /PERMANENTLY/ lose that biomass as it becomes infected.
Finally, this one isn't really in the Necromorphs favor, but the two groups work entirely differently. The Brethren Moons need to wait for civilizations to develop because they can't reproduce without enough sentient organisms to kill. They're zombies the size of planets, so of course there's no benefit to wiping out that world of a few million, or eating a planet that doesn't have anything but simple animals. They don't wage war to eat, they wage war to reproduce. The tyranids can easily make more of themselves but the Brethren Moons and Necromorphs need there to be a lot of sentient lifeforms, or at least lifeforms with a lot of neural matter. Now I do think that hive ships count towards this, and so the Brethren Moons could grow in number quickly if they started killing and assimilating tyranid bioships. Of course maybe the tyranids could simply adapt to be immune to the Necromorph signal, or maybe they wouldn't. I don't think they would but that is absolutely subjective opinion. More so than the rest of this.
So Necromorphs need the marker to win?
not need but yeah its pretty important
@@temba92yes unlike the tyranids that have no winning moves. Even if they can ignore the signal they still lose cuz necromorphs can't die and infect everything dead. Tyranids need to meal prep and child rear necros come prebuilt. The best case here for tyranids is they have an incurable disease they need to monitor for the rest of time.
covenant vs tau please
A interesting video idea would be the terrans from starcraft vs the imperium. Or necrons vs cybertronians.
I think Protoss vs Eldar would be cooler considering the history of Starcraft. I'm also absolutely a Transformers fan but it's hard not to admit Necrons have better stuff with the possible exception of the embodiment of evil itself. Transformers main appeal is that some of them are ride or die and some of them are Starscream.
@@consolescrub4031 transformers can give the necrons a soul. They have the tech and resources to make life and it's not hard to do. Also transformers ftl travel is better than anybody else in 40k, maybe even better than most fictional settings in general.
Cybertronian tech is pretty op like that star cannon from idw or any of the artifacts that the prices have and most of their weapons are energy based with some anti matter and black holes sprinkled in.
@@jonathanathor117 Fair enough. I was mostly going off the Bay movies wherein some transformers can be killed by just driving a car into them or by conventional rocket launchers if you only refer to the larger ones. There's been a lot of variation in what exactly it takes to destroy a transformer although I suppose the soul providing is at least a bargaining chip (I can't remember but I seem to believe there's some sort of energy restriction on their life creation hence why they don't spam it). I don't know how good Transformers FTL tech is considering their ships seem to take a while to arrive (the Pillars from the third movie were instant but that's something particular which needs to be set up, they seem to almost travel like meteors from the first film which can't have them being too fast). I'm certainly prepared to agree it's safer than most civilisation's FTL tech but Necrons probably have the skills and knowledge to keep up unless you know details I don't. (Necron inertialess travel is inherently very risky on account of how they are throwing themselves around the universe at incredible speeds and need to start slowing down years before they stop but they've got the knowledge and the tech to minimise the risk to the point it's safer for them to travel that way than most factions can warp travel)
Isaac Clarke 1v10's space marines fr
I think the main thing comes down to the fact that it's a war and not a single battle.
After one fight, even if Tyranids lose - the high fleet fighting this war will adapt, create new bioforms, and wipe the floor with Necromorphs on the every subsequent encounter, now also snowballing from the fact that they consume and integrate necromorph genetic material,
Meanwhile if Necromorphs win the first battle - they make a new moon made out of dead Tyranids, and then... It's back to square 1 for their tactics. Because Necromorphs don't evolve - they just use whatever the new prey species gives them.
P.S. Isn't the most obvious "VS" being the "__ from Warhammer/W40k vs ___ from Warcraft/Starcraft"? (considering Blizzard somehow got away with ripping off GW works, twice, it would be fun to see which one did it better)
P.P.S. Not to point out any Kings in Yellow in the room, but... "Outer Gods vs the Chaos Gods"?
We need some Tolkien vs Warhammer Fantasy versus videos.
This is silly. Nids have faced enemies very similar to the necromorphs... it's called the death guard, chaos Nurgle..
why would Nids be effected by the marker signal, when they didn't evolve near one? seems like that's kinda an important bit.
Nids would probably create solar-system sized clouds of spore organisms and just go to town.
Gaunts Ghosts
Tyranids take this easy. As far as infections go they went toe to toe with deathguard until the planet became sludge and even deathguard couldn't survive. As far as markers hive flleet tiamat is farming a system currently and build one.
Any casual Tyranid enjoyer could have made a better argument for them 😒
15:13 were the tyranids not created by the old ones?
No
the markers cause a species development over time the markers would not be able to interface with the tyrranids incompatible hardware
I think the shadow in the warp would would be stronger than the marker signal and would cancel it out. The brethren moons, however many there are, are huge, centralized targets, that could be targeted and wiped out more easily than say, whole fleets of organisms scattered across the galaxy. Do the brethren moons even have any actual combat defenses in space? I do think the Tyranids can build, but I just don't think the Marker signal would override the hive mind signal as long as the neural link nids are around to keep them connected to the hive mind, and the necromorphs don't really seem to employ tactics or strategy, or general coordination enough to take out those command beasts. As for the necromorphs that regenerate. Either acid or plasma would handle that eventually, or the nids would just spawn burrowing parasites to take over and co opt the seemingly immortal creatures for themselves, potentially then giving nids access to that ability for themselves, also, outaide of commandeering that individual necromorph.
The marker is kinda preprogrammed...... so humans only. also tyranids eat EVERYTHING so if it exists thy can convert it biomass is just easier
Welp I'm convinced necromorphs win because loot boxes are just unholy...
If the tyranids are able to adapt to chaos and demons, literal mind screwing and shattering powers, I think they can beat the necromorphs.
The hive mind is closer to a god so I'm not sure the marker would work on it and if the hive mind cannot be infected then no Tyranid can.
Can you guys have isyander and koda on this channel
If you dropped 10 Necromoons into the 40K universe (or 100 or whatever) they would get almost nothing done. Don't get me wrong, they would kill quite a few planets, but the 2-3 time the Imperium encountered one they would learn: See one of these? Planet killer, now! The Eldar might be more susceptible to the Maker's influence, might. The Orks would be a field day for the Necromoons... but there are always more Orks. The Tau would similarly learn "See it, kill it" but not might survive long enough to put that into practice. Chaos would either adapt a new god (form the Necromoons. Making them the 5 major Chaos god) or wreck the Necromoon's shit. The Necrons would start a campaign of eradication upon learning the Necromoons exist. And the Tyranids would just eat them. Dead planet made of dead bodies? Sounds like a LOT of biomass.
The Necromoon's ability to infect a species relies on having a marker in contact with that species for its entire existence. Slow and steady.
Drop a single hive fleet (a tiny fraction of the Tyranid's force) into the dead space universe and the markers wouldn't have even activated. Humanity would be dead within a year or 2 of the Tyranids finding them (most of that being travel time from world to world)
I don't think they will make new chaos God
Since they not that intelligent except they become massive threat and has a big influence on warp
But that won't happen because the Imperium, Eldar, Necrons, Tau, even Dhrukari won't let it happen
Worst case scenario, Nurgel will claim them and turn them into something more dangerous
So yeah there is no fifth chaos God
Also Necromoons won't be really serious threat to 40k universe
Since they have weapons that can easily destroyed a planet
The only reason they didn't use it just because the author never thought about it
If it appears, at most it will only be the Exterminatus protocol
The necromorph can manually infect without the signal aswell they literally farm the galaxy once they devour it they seed new life let it develop and than eat
I honestly believe that the tyranids would just eat the necromorphs and be on their way. Why would the necromorphs not just be something the hive is capable of handling they process biomass and metals into themselves to fuel their fleets. They don’t really give a shit about the necromorphs powers either just consume and be on their way. Maybe the necromorphs could convert dead tyranid (they probably could but what is killing those nids?) and then the nids just adapt to that and eat the morphs. If some nids or a fleet gets corrupted the other fleets will just learn and adapt and then consume the fleet. They do this on the regular to each other just because they can
Considering tau have twice infected and broke down Tyneside fleets with biological weapons the necromorphs super cells work like that signals also infect via different vectors
Also andy is wrong the events of DS1 and onwards does not happen by actions of a singular brother moon, it happens because humanity tried to recreate the marker like on earth but the copy marker was not in stasis like the original ones so it started acting up. The previous civilization stopped the unificiation of their species and prevented their brother moon from forming and when Isaac and co failed to stop the fanatics from awakening it, Isaac killed this "god". Basicly thanks to the actions of the previous civilization the brother moons were out on hiatus but the hiatus ended when humanity tried to recreate its benefitial presence elsewhere.
Just to add the copy marker was not built under influence, it was built 1:1 out of schematics from studying the original marker on earth. They also tried to bury it and leave it after things went inevitably south, Dead Space 2 is another copy marker built by fanatics from Isaacs ramblings. Considering that to be the true form of influenced building, instead of the slow study and research that made the DS1 copy marker.