3 Fallacies For Election Season!
VloĆŸit
- Äas pĆidĂĄn 30. 08. 2016
- Viewers like you help make PBS (Thank you đ) . Support your local PBS Member Station here: to.pbs.org/donateidea
YOU DID A FALLACY
Tweet us! bit.ly/pbsideachanneltwitter
Idea Channel Facebook! bit.ly/pbsideachannelfacebook
Talk about this episode on reddit! bit.ly/pbsideachannelreddit
Idea Channel IRC! bit.ly/pbsideachannelirc
Email us! pbsideachannel [at] gmail [dot] com
In the US itâs presidential election season. There are lots of people expounding upon about all kinds of high stakes topics: whatâs best for you, the country, whatâs gonna keep everyone safe, and successful. Candidates, pundits, your pals: making points, making promises, making arguments. In the course of the political proceedings ... Iâve seen plenty of the fallacies weâve covered before on Idea Channel, but there are a few cropping up that we havenât yet covered-so I thought weâd better. Today weâll discuss the âAppeal to Emotion Fallacy,â the âNon-Sequitur Fallacyâ the âAppeal to Nature Fallacyâ and how you might be seeing them pop up in this election season. Let us know what you think in the comments below!
--CHECK OUT OUR MERCH!--
bit.ly/1U8fS1B
T-Shirts Designed by:
artsparrow.com/
-- ATLAS OBSCURA EVENT --
www.atlasobscura.com/events/ny...
-- BOOK CLUB -
/ idea_channel_book_club...
-- Non Sequiturs, aka Formal Fallacies --
www.logicallyfallacious.com/t...
www.logicallyfallacious.com/t...
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Non_sequ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmi...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denying...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmi...
--TWEET OF THE WEEK--
/ 769772575996022784
--ASSET LINKS--
1:56 Nixon vs Kennedy photo - www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/politic...
2:25 Helen Lovejoy Think of the Children - âą The Simpsons - Helen L...
3:08 Salt Chart www.aarp.org/food/diet-nutriti...
3:53 Non Sequitur definition www.logicallyfallacious.com/t...
7:45 Humes Law slideplayer.com/slide/5313429/
10:15 In Politics Sometimes Facts Donât Matter
www.npr.org/templates/story/st...
--MUSIC--
/ minimalist
---------------------------------------ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ------------------------Â-Â-Â-Â
Written and hosted by Mike Rugnetta (@mikerugnetta)
(who also has a podcast! Reasonably Sound: bit.ly/1sCn0BF)
Made by Kornhaber Brown (www.kornhaberbrown.com)
man last time I came this early the prostitute gave me a refund.
You sound so horny are you Canadian?
Learning and knowing logical fallacies helps further critical thinking. This should be taught from middle school through college in every lit class.
I don't think politicians like what your saying. they might lose voters and people behind the curtain.
I'm going to get CZcams into to schools. saying it in. it's going to happen way.
Yeah teaching people how to think is a lot better than telling them what to think.
Agreed. Last year(10th grade) I just learned about fallacies and other rhetorical strategies. It was so useful.
+
I like that you put "common sense" in air quotes, because the more times I see that phrase used, the more I realize it's completely meaningless, the last resort of someone who has no basis for their arguments whatsoever but still demands to be taken seriously somehow.
+
I think it is more a misuse of "common sense" rather than common sense being faulty in itself. For example, when I think of common sense I think "If you see a hot stove you shouldn't touch it because it will (the will is the "common sense" part, you don't know for a fact that it will burn you but "common sense" says it probably will) burn you." Using common sense as a term to describe "reasonable doubt" would make more sense than completely bashing the term as meaningless. The problem I see with people using the term "common sense" is that they take it beyond its bounds. Just because someone says something is common sense it does not make it common sense, saying the term is meaningless because it is incorrectly used is a waste of a phrase.
+
+MrHorris
The other problem is when people try to use common sense as a justification. Even if it really is consistent with common sense, what they're saying may still be incorrect.
I have the have the same problem for basically every "well know" fact. for example, 9/10 scientists think global warming is a hoax, like how do you know? who interviewed the scientists? where they even involved in relevant science? the answer is always just "its well known"
Appeal to Emotion starts at 1:43 czcams.com/video/REp4zCum3XY/video.htmlm43s
Non Sequitur starts at 3:48 czcams.com/video/REp4zCum3XY/video.htmlm48s
Appeal to Nature at 7:04 czcams.com/video/REp4zCum3XY/video.htmlm4s
...if you still want to link to each individually.
& Vote For Mike! Vote early, vote often.
Thank you! I was going to do that myself, but you saved me some work. :D
+
how about the false dichotomy? If you're not voting for A, that is a vote for B!
Yeah! You could also through your vote away.
Except that a two party system is by definition a true dichotomy.
Except it isn't. There are only two parties until there aren't. The UK could have been described a two party system less than a decade ago, now it is not.
Not exaclty... ever heard of blank votes ?
A classic in our two-party system, a tried and true argument of door-to-door canvassers across generations.
You know what's fallacious? The two party race.
#FeelmyJohnson
I'd say "too bad the Libertarians have no chance of winning" but that implies a desire for that to be untrue.
Blame the voting system. It's almost entirely the fault of the single-vote system, and (surprisingly) not the human bias towards dichotomies.
Well, that and the fact that the candidates are rather terrible this year.
If a third party has no chance of winning then not voting for one is throwing away your vote.
+Mastikator Except politicians are professional ass-kissers without a lick of integrity. If a third party were to gain a drastic increase in voters the first two parties would first try to figure out why and then see if they can integrate whatever they found into their own rhetorics and political scheme. Stealing back the voters if successful but ultimately to the benefit of those who voted for said third party.
And just when I thought I would finally stop having nightmares about Straw Mike...
straw Mike is trump your not alone.
+Aidan Doyle damit! throat!
I imagine Straw Mike, and their argumentative nature, fallowing you around through out the day.
Three mistakes this election:
Voting hillary
Voting trump
Not voting
+
cries
+
+
what about vote Gary Johnson?
I just want this extended edition of Orange Monster vs Cringe Monster to be over with...
the best description so far
Things might be strange in there, but they are still not any stranger than in Orange Monster vs Cringe Monster
+
Oh good, these episodes always have the best comment sections.
God help us all.
God is dead, and we killed him!
***** Yep. Nietzsche properly understood in a non-edgy teentard way is pretty based btw, fully recommend a read of his important works.
"GMO's are unnatural so we shouldn't have them" is such a common thing. I get you don't like them but banning them hurts us more than helps us.
+
see also "weed is all natural so it's obviously good for you" and pretty much any homeopathic. Goddamn hippies.
+Blanksy Mortimer Though I don't believe weed is any more medicine than a pain killer at best I think we should legalize it for recreational proposes. Mainly because the research it's no more harmful then smoking cigarettes with less addicting additives. But brownies for pointing that one out
There's been quite a bit of research suggesting it's good for a lot of conditions that pharmaceuticals aren't very effective with, but otherwise I agree. :D :D
same
Hang on Mike, you misrepresented Straw Mike! He didn't say that war is good, just that it is necessary!
+
Necessary =/= good.
Straw Mike seemed to be saying that war is a necessary Human thing, and we should shy away from it or else we'll get rolled over by our enemies who are going to use war.
At least I think that's what he was saying.
And I think I partially agree.
Oh? đ€
Did mike just commit a strawman fallacy? How ironic
Straw Mike haunts my dreams.
The Appeal to Nature is the one that consistantly drives me nuts. When I came out to my family as trans years ago I heard the exact "that's not natural" bullshit and proceeded to point out how far back it's been recognized and how many species the condition has been documented in. Unsurprisingly the response I got was what you would expect: "well you aren't a frog, so it's still not natural."
In hindsight I'm glad my family disowned me. I'm so much happier not having to deal with them.
The appeal to nature tends to not realize that the entire point of human civilization is to work against nature.
uchytjes10 Some part of that made he bust up laughing and remembering a sketch by David Huntsberger. Basically the bit is about mankind versus mother nature and global warming is just proof we're winning, lol.
Ask them if they wear clothes, drive cars and schedule their sleep. None of those activities are "natural".
People love to point out what's natural. For some reason. I don't get it.
I'm sorry you got separated from your family. I would suggest you to try and point out their contradictions while making your argument, to make them listen to reason and reconcile, but I suppose it's too late.
These are my favorite kind of videos. Thanks for making this and please make more!
The Fallacy Fallacy is very important. It seems like every third conversation I get into on CZcams devolves into arguments over who is using what fallacy, and therefore completely gets sidetracked and falls apart entirely, without anyone ever actually touching on the original topic. Pointing out where someone is wrong is very different from searching through a three paragraph response for a single fallacy, and discounting the entire post based on that one point.
the bicycle pogo stick argument, we have a word for that in Scandinavia. Erasmus Montanus Logic: Mother Karen can not swim, a stone can not swim, ergo mother Karen is a rock.
Voting for Gary Johnson is the only NATURAL course of action!
I see what you did there, but I think Jill Stein's is the NATURAL DECISION. Because she stand's for the people and this government has always been one to stand for the people. (I am not very good at making fallacies on purpose)
Come on guys. We need to make America great again, we all know America is the greatest country in the world. Well... It used to be, then those democrats ruined it! Obama, who obviously hates America I doubt he's even really from here, has done nothing to help this country and in his lack of action, he has almost doomed it to destruction!
WE NEED TO BAND TOGETHER, BECAUSE AMERICA CAN BE GREAT AGAIN!
Glora La Riva. Would rather not slide towards ancap.
Trumps protectionism/isolationism which makes him so popular with factory workers would be horrible for the economy as a whole
I like my grandfather's response to the claims of 'natural' things being by definition good for you - Sharks are natural, but you wouldn't want to swim with one.
NICE SHIRT BRO)))
I KNO)))!
I'm so happy I'm not the only fan in here :3
It's a drone band called Sunn O))).
ENTER THE CO)))SMIC REFRIGERATOR
***** You're welcome. Give Monoliths & Dimensions a listen if you're interested.
I am going to be sharing this video A LOT!!
Thanks! Good knowledge here :)
Glad you're on your feet again. The extra motion makes for a distinctly better video.
Straw Mike never ceases to disturb me.
Thanks so much for this, if more people were aware of these fallacies then demagogues would have a much harder time.
I move for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum's leadership.
Please make a fallacy series. It would be fantastic
great vid love to see more fallacys
i'm doing youth in goverment at my scool your fallacy videos will help me in debates so much
The real problem is when fallacious logic is used for the right reasons.
Also, whenever I get someone close to contradicting themselves they usually just escalate the situation in order to avoid dealing with it. In my view, they turn off their brains and become animals. It's scary. I try not to do it so much now.
Straw Mike has a future in politics
Great video, Mike. I'm really interested by these, although they seem mostly relevant to rhetoric from *candidates*. Can you maybe do a follow up video about fallacies in political *discussions*? I feel there's a lot we can start to recognize in ourselves and others that avoiding can help improve generalized political debate.
+
thanks for making this video
Oh boy. Affirming the consequent in particular has already come up a lot this season.
I read the title as "3 Fallacies For Erection Season!";
I leave relieved.
Sigmund Freud would probably have some interesting things to say about that.
3 Phalluses for Erection Season.
summary:
1. appeal to emotion fallacy
2. the non sequitur fallacy
(contains more)
>fallacy of the converse/affirming the consequent
>undistributed middle
3. appeal to nature fallacy
(compared to: hume's law)
I think it's important to note that the appeal to the feels (as well as all of these fallacies; it's just the one that sticks out to me the most) do not necessarily arise from some preconceived notion of "what's going to land me the most points." Oftentimes, people are naturally ariving at these positions and statements because they're operating on a different wavelength and reacting to different heuristics informed by their unique experiences. In the case of the burger, an actualized "straw-Mike" may not be responding to the cues about health but to the notion of being limited in what they enjoy because of some sort of (admittedly soft) government sanction. It doesn't make their reaction any less fallacious, logically speaking, but that doesn't mean that we should presume it isn't speaking to their truth. Not to insinuate that this isn't something you touch on in the video or that you're encouraging the contrary (I'm a long-time viewer and I believe you do a fantastic job at facilitating informed discourse), I just thought it merited explicit reinforcement.
Great video!
Also, is it me or did you guys mess up on Straw-Mike's look? He's not quite orange enough given his positions in this video ;)
This election is basically Archie Bunker vs. Cruella De Ville. At least Archie had a senceof humor.
But Trump doesn't, otherwise he wouldn't be constantly getting into twitter flame wars with anyone who makes fun of him....
I don't recall him Getting into a war, just taking the piss out of them
a very apt description i heard once was tammy 1 vs tammy 2 from parks and rec
Holy crap. I never expected Mike to go over the third one.
K. Shawn Edgar
Him being a feminist
Maybe the word Feminist has a different definition, thought of that maybe?
What does Appeal To Nature have to do with Feminism?
@Superdark33
Feminism is a movement.
A really bad one as far as I know, it doesn't have any real leaders, it doesn't have a defined goal. It is just a thing you can say you are and people will argue over the definition of.
But I feel it's really defined by its vocal members.
And who are the vocal members of feminism?
Mostly the college third wave "muh patriarchy" feminazis. At least from my perspective.
Why thank you.
I have trouble telling these days, is this a joke or an attempt at an argument?
I just realized that Straw Mike is literally the physical representation of the Straw Man Fallacy.
Now we can all vote for the "right" candidate - Straw Mike ;) (I mean, I can't. I'm European :P )
+
Cally not on modile for comments. It all so brings the comment to the top of the list handy if you think it is a good coment and should be read and want to drown out trolls
The *SuperBrother Sword & Sworcery EP* album is gone.
O-O I notice.
Fallacious... Fellatio. "That is Fallacious! He did a [fellatio]!"
All this time I thought it was pronounced "fallicious" (like "malicious"). So throughout the video I just kept thinking "fellatio". XD
Hey! These points were mostly made with conservative positions, can you make the next one also with fallacies made with liberal arguments? I am saying this as a liberal:)
All the same fallacies, but with different talking points. I see "muh feels" come out of your camp just as much as "muh Jesus" comes from the conservatives.
It honestly does not matter, if you understand the fallacys presented here you can recognize them for any political stance.
+
Yes, this show has always had a hard left bias.
Fortunately, Mike and his(possibly nonexistent) writing crew are normally self aware enough to keep it on the sidelines and the content intellectually honest.
Yes, this show has always had a hard left bias.
Fortunately, Mike and his(possibly nonexistent) writing crew are normally self aware enough to keep it on the sidelines and the content intellectually honest.
Straw Mike still terrifies me after watching this channel for ages. Those eyes, mang.
I remember you playing Mario Kart in Canfield. : D
Saw your shirt and immediately hit subscribe!
i really wanna learn how to argue effectively
Tickets are already sold out to the brooklyn event tonight. :( Anyone who went, how good was it? I really wanted to go.
you should do the motte-and-bailey and the non-central fallacy. I feel people need those most
the good thing about Hillary Clinton though is that she doesn't use fallacies. She just straight lies to the people.
It'd be great to have a video highlighting ways to defend against these fallacies when they show up in conversations.
You know, so that I can think of a comeback before 4 days later.
Hey! Great video! Could you please name the albums in the background? Thank you!
That second one, i call _orthogonal_
I love your Sunn O))) shirt!
Question from someone who values rigorous and generous conversation: What do you do if you can't keep up? I mean, some of these formal fallacies are quite complex to be spotting in "real-time". How do I generously, productively challenge the rigor/direction of the conversation without knowing exactly what's wrong?
Are you ever going to do a video going through the philosophical razors?
God I hate that last one. My mom is very anti gmo's and we go back and forth but I hate it when she says they aren't "natural". What does that even mean? That they're supernatural?
That was kinda frustrating... but thanks.
I'm Latino and I'm terrified of this Election, the fact that trump got this far is actually scary. he is so disconnected from the majority of people. especially from minorities and if he does get elected his actions may seriously affect us in a negative manner.
I cant stop hearing fallacious as fellatious
Cool shirt with the word "Healthy" in Norwegian and a stavechurch in it! Where did you get it?
The feels is reals
I second the recommendation of using Socratic method when debating politics. At the very least, even if nobody's opinions change, it can get people to clarify their goals, reasoning, and values for both themselves and for you, which can help determine if it's even worth you time to engage in further debate.
I thought he was going to say "Just because someone uses fallacious reasoning that does not make them A FELLATER"
hey dudes! love the show. can someone please explain to my why the videos of idea channel along with some other channels do not appear anymore in my news feed? nothing has changed from my part so when I check for new stuff, it should appear as regular...
Hey Mike I just wanted to say this was a very well put together video. Good discussion and enlightenment on common fallacies we're seeing on the political stage right now while still staying quite neutral on specifics. I really liked that you didn't actually bring up Trump or Hillary when discussing this. It could've been very easy to grab a quote from either one and tear it apart. Glad you didn't. It helps the credibility of the video and gets both sides to think deeper.
Straw Mike speaks in a very similar fashion to Donald Trump.
The proper way to address a fallacy is to explain why the opponent is wrong rather than to name the fallacy.
Funnily enough, I think the examples used starting at 4:47 actually make more sense when you revert them: A great collaborator may not become successful because of any one of a host of other factors. On the other hand, it is unlikely that someone will become very successful without being a good collaborator. Along the same lines, many (I'd argue most) honest people never get elected. They may be unappealing for other reasons, or may not even run for office. On the other hand, politicians often take a severe hit in their polling numbers if they are exposed for lying.
We should debate all aforementioned topics.
Is there a complete taxonomy of fallacies and where can I find it?
All dogs are canines but not all canines are dogs
Canine means dog. Dog is a generic term that's commonly used to describe any kind of canine animal.
TIL teeth can be dogs
+daemonCaptrix what about wolves tho. They're canines, but not dogs.
Limey Lassen So if you bite a bread-wrapped sausage. That's dog-eat-dog!
and teeth
Loving the sunn o))) shirt đđ
Now I'm mentally picturing Straw Mike's big laugh if Bland Mike's country gets invaded by an enemy army...
Is it bad that I kinda want a clip of just the part where Mike says "Hey! That's fallacious! You did a fallacy!"?
I'm not sure if this fallacy already has a name or not, but there's a fallacy I've seen pop up more than I'd like that bothers me and I'd like to share here. I call it the conditional scenario fallacy, when there's a concern someone has for a scenario so specific and remote that it's absurd to worry about over what is much more common, or else they just neglect how the agent would tailor the response to such a scenario were it to pop up.
A stone falls to the ground if you drop it, I fall to the ground if you drop me, therefore I am a stone.
9:03 Talks about war, shows a place where fighting is forbidden.
I'm a raspberry!
Name the fallacy.
Pathos, referring to the " appeal to emotions fallacy" is a legitimate way to argue a point.
There's no helping those who have made fallacious conclusions such a critical part of their self-identity that they believe the lies as absolutely truth and reject all contrasting evidence.
love your sunn o))) shirt!!!
As an outside observer, it appears that this election season seems to be all about the feels.
7:46 Should that be "Discounting issues _as_ normative vs positive battles"? Alternatively, Humes Law might have been abbreviated a little too aggressively there.
Can you please do one on the spotlight Fallacy???
You're right Mike, I DO want a cheeseburger.
Another added advice to all these (fantastic) videos: Try to catch fallacies committed by the politicians you support the most. I guarantee they make them and it's healthy to see how you might agree with a conclusion but see the flaws in its presentation.
Is that a Sunn O))) shirt? Dude. You kick ass. No true logician would hate that band, so I guess I can believe you now!
more fallacy videos would be really cool
That Sunn O))) tho...
INANE SLANDER
YOU'RE WRONG
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Glad I've gotten that out of my system.
Speaking of election season...
"We are always told, "Well, if you don't like how the system works, the answer is not to break the law, but to work to reform the system. Get involved; make your voice heard; donate your money and time; organize for effective political action; and marshal the votes to effect the changes of leadership and policy that you seek." To follow this advice is tantamount to conceding defeat at the very outset.
The system is not constructed so as to permit substantial reform from within. All the commanding heights and strategic nodes are controlled by those whose fame and fortune depend on its continued operation and its acceptance by the masses who pay taxes and obey its dictates. Only two possibilities exist for its substantial change for the better: one is its collapse of its own weight, followed by its reconstruction from the ground up on a completely different foundation; the other is its abandonment by large numbers of people who simply refuse to recognize its legitimacy or accept its authority any longer and walk away from it en masse, leaving it devoid of patsies to pay its bills and kowtow to its kingpins." - Robert Higgs
Rabble rabble rabble!
Pretty good set of fallacies to know about, and these are especially useful for things like political speeches. I do know the elections tend to bring out a lot of fallacies everywhere and often intentionally which is quite annoying to listen to. Guess people like the drama aspects of it like it's a reality TV show. There are definitely facts and some logic being used, but things are just skewed towards using other techniques for persuasion.
Anyhow nice video with some great examples of fallacies. I do enjoy these as a nice easy to digest video and covering more fallacies in later videos is always a treat to listen to.
SUNN O))) !!! best shirt yet Mike
8:30 I would have take this argument as saying that war was unavoidable, and that attempting to avoid it rather than prepare for it was therefore irrational, not that it was desirable. Of course, in many situations both of these propositions would be false.
Hey do you think you could do an episode on the success of the idea channel comment section? What makes this comment section seemingly a better place for intelligent conversation over other channels on CZcams? How can content creators foster healthy interactions with their viewers?
Salt is perfectly fine to eat, just don't eat so much you die, it's pretty simple.
And also don't eat too _little_ that you die, people forget that salt is a requirement for staying healthy.
+
But modern foods have a LOT of salt in them. So on a budget you cant really get away from tons of salt.
+Superdark33 no as in, from the papers and scientific journals I've read, salt reduction in people's diets does no significant benefits to their health - salt concentration DOES NOT EFFECT BLOOD PRESSURE IN ANY SIGNIFICANT WAY.
Usually high salt intake in diets is a side effect of eating fast food, so the people with a high intake of salt are usually obese and have a high blood pressure due to obesity, nothing to do with salt.
The best way to reduce your salt intake is to avoid interacting with fandoms on the internet.
Figures. Straw Mike is a Canadian.