A Defense of Overthinking Pop Culture
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2017
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Finale, Pt. 2 of 3
The Idea Channel farewell office hours will be on September 8th from 6 to 8pm at Caveat in NYC. It is an all ages event; there will be alcohol present. RSVP here: eventbrite.com/e/farewell-office-hours-tickets-37112015036
Finale Pt. 1 Comment Response will go HERE when its published!
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Check out the Ted Talk, "Why I Write Books About Elves". The speaker is a lawyer who chooses to write books about elves because solutions to problems become more clear when they're recontextualized. For example, to talk about climate change, he used the example of being a wizard and finding out that the source of your magic is dying out; his question was, "How much of your life would you give to save the source of this magic?" Plato himself was an avid proponent of thinking through popular culture and its role in helping the masses, whether they realize it or not, to work through things that they don't always work through on their own, like the feeling of loss. He coined the term "catharsis" to describe this phenomenon of coming to terms with your own thoughts or thinking through philosophy through art. And if Plato believed in overthinking culture, I think we're on the right track.
As regards overthinking "low culture", one of the reasons it's always seemed worthwhile to me is because low/pop culture is often less self-consciously political or philosophical. It seems like people's underlying philosophical biases and blind spots are on view in a more interesting way when they're presented without fanfare as "just normal".
Like, gay coding as a marker for villainy is more interesting to me when it's done by people who probably don't think of themselves as homophobic, and might not necessarily recognise that that's what they're doing, for example.
I think that overthinking "low culture" is a great way to litmus popular opinion on things. This follows from the video: "popular culture is one of the sites where the struggle for and against the powerful is engaged"
Hugh Dingwall I agree with you, although you gotta tread the fine line between creating misreading and bad faith reading in this case, because it's easy to fall into doing psychoanalysis here.
edit: Read Noel Blackketters comment below.
Yeah, it's important to make sure you actually get the cultural context that produces something as well. When you look at another culture's pop culture it can be really easy to misunderstand, for example, the precise target of a satire, if you don't know all the tropes and current political discussion that they're drawing on.
Good points, Hugh. Pop culture is often a marker that is indicative of broad, commonly accepted values in society, even more so where the producers were not trying to be deliberately political or philosophical. How long have Nazis been the bad guys in comics and movies, for example, since WWII? They were easy targets as bad guys.
*sets down tea, stands, applauds, wakes cat, feels bad, sits down, cheers Idea Channel internally, considers last five years of overthinking time very well spent*
Seize the means of interpretation.
We must overthrow the informational elite! Drain the Idea Swamp!
that was the best thing i read all week
This ought to be a poster or shirt and I may very well seize my own interpretation of how that should be done and make it
I'M IN
Dude, the exact same phrase - word for word - came to mind at 10:30
Anything worth thinking about
Is worth overthinking about
"Overthinking pop culture" is exactly how I describe Idea Channel to my friends XD
You have friends who don't watch Idea Channel?
GiggitySam Entz ~~maaan... that's a sad sad friendship
Another Idea Channel video added to my English 11 curriculum. This is exactly what I try to teach my students every day.
Thank you.
PBS Idea Channel the youtube channel for the overthinker and i'm proud to be part of that groep
I've been watching since 2013! I saw my first idea channel video in sixth grade and now I'm starting tenth! I'll miss these sm
the idea that some people sit around watching/experiencing things and accepting them as they come while being convinced that they do not have a deeper impact on their understanding of the world is my personal definition of a nightmare, hashtag team overthinkers?
The argument against overthinking, I believe, is that those who consume culture on a surface level and connect personally to the medium rather than philisophically, don't want others to conciously pull ideology from the soup and imply that people are connecting to an ideology rather than a cultural phenomena. Everybody argues over ideology, it's a lava-hot topic, and those who dislike and do not enjoy discussion and debate and the implications of ideology prefer their own passive approach to understanding ideology and theory. They don't want to think about the underlying themes of popular culture or otherwise because it takes away the romantic attraction and replaces it with something cold and controlling and simultaneously uncontrollable; if we are afflicted by subliminal messages, we want to either ignore it or pretend we're immune, because everybody wants to be in control of their own life, not feel as though there is this abstract ideological puppetmaster that decided how we think for us. By ignoring the influence and theory of popular culture and simply consuming on a personal level you can simultaneously feel in control of your own life and not feel as though other people are telling you what to think, even if everybody is, indeed, being told what to think on a daily basis. 'Overthinking' is the drudging up of existential conflicts that people would rather ignore in their honorable hardworking make-a-life-for-me-and-my-family worldviews. Philosophy, theory, and overthinking are simply negative distractions in this way.
And to note, I don't think this is inherently wrong or unhealthy. Many people make it well through life by being honorable-hardworking and ignoring these thoughtful distractions, because humans are adaptive and can become wise through personal experiences rather than academic inquiry and asking questions that don't have immediately beneficial answers. Practicality in this way can lead to achievements that award the individual with a good life and wealth and safety for their children to inherit. 'Overthinking' can be seen as a very academic pusuit, for those with too much time on their hands, or at least historically this has been accurate. In modern times, there are much more people with time on their hands and the need to find innovative sources of income, so overthinking may be more common. Subsequently, more people are vocal against the overanalysis of their favorite tv shows and memes.
Hopefully my train of thought is coherent.
It is and I have to agree. 'Overthinking' popular culture is not a practise for everyone. Some people just prefer to enjoy something emotionally than adding an academic appreciation about it.
However I personally believe almost everyone overthinks something. Maybe not popular culture. Maybe not politics. Maybe not the universe, life or everything. But everyone has some area that they enjoy exploring and thinking about it. The problem comes when somebody enjoys overthinking an area that hits too close home, that talks more about current state of affairs and about the things they enjoy emotionally rather than academically, which leads to moments of people feeling personally attacked when somebody presents clear and reasonable negatives ideas or implications that thing you enjoyed emotionally has. People dislike being "the bad guy", even if their moral compass has nothing to do with the discussion, so they cannot accept that something they honestly were touched by to have something they utterly despise, so the defending of those pieces as "just x" begin.
I don't think not overthinking something is unhealthy, neither that liking something with clear problems is. What is unhealthy is the notion that you can't think about them. The notion that they cannot have these amount of bad things because I like it. And the notion that those who do think about it are wasting their time.
I also think that someone that doesn't overthink anything (which I seriously find hard to imagine said person, as it would mean they have no interest in anything and absolute zero insight) is in fact unhealthy. Even the simplest of people who find joy in the most superficial things need to put some thought into matters of their everyday life. Those who don't end up just accepting anythong that comes to them at face value, and improving as people and developing their own character is imposible, as they would refuse to think any situation as worth putting their mind into it. Again, I genuinely can't imagine someone like that actually exists, but I can't say I know every person in the planet.
Andres Arancio There are honestly some pretty straightforward folk out there that really have no patience for idle thought, or think little enough of it that they find debate and discussion a waste of time regardless of topic. It's less common nowadays but certainly exists. These folk prefer things black and white, are usually hardened and have few or no complex fantasies. In fact, it's a trope for these characters to exist occasionally in popular media. The badasses with one-track minds. Personally a very boring trope, but some people like them and/or connect with the archetype. I think the people who grow up to become this learn pretty early on in their lives that fantasies are a waste of time and the only thing that protects them and their loved ones is accomplishing the tasks necessary for their survival. To a lesser extent, classical heroes who slay monsters and do little else can embody something similar.
The type who dislike idle thought as a leisure activity yes, there are. However there is a difference between somebody who thinks out of necessesity and someone who doesn't think at all. Even the most black and white thinking, straightforward person (who I think is considered a pretty unhealthy outlook for an adult nowafays anyway) usually has to stop and think through things for practicality sake. That is why philosophers say that everyone does philosophy even if they don't realize it, applicating logic and questioning one's situation is a way of 'overthinking', just applied to more grounded things.
Only in fiction I can imagine people who just straight up do not think. There probably are those who dislike doing it, but not those who don't do it on principle.
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Perhaps, if Pop Culture is one of the few things that large swaths of the population, especially conflicting or adversarial groups, share and enjoy in common, then accusations about overthinking it are in some way, how to avoid interacting with what you perceive to be your enemies who have also saw and enjoyed this piece of media.
After all, if no one is talking about, say, the role of capitalism in Jurassic Park, then no one who has seen Jurassic Park (ie, most people), is talking about capitalism. Bringing this topic into the mix thus feels like an opportunity (perhaps even, an unsolicited request) to engage the other side in conversation, and that's something many people are simply unwilling to do. Thus, the shouting of "overthinker!" as a way to shut the dynamic down.
subconscious "I'm too stupid/biased/stuck to play on the level with you" signaling?
Exactly. Add to this "you're ruining our fun !!' when you're pointing out something wrong in any work that no one else pointed out. Collective consciousness is terrifying when used to shut down critics.
I think some people who let their minds atrophy are also intimidated by complex ideas, since said people interpret any negative critique as a statement about a work being objectively bad, and they see the use of complex ideas as some attempt at creating a sense of authority, rather than as some valuable and fun way of engaging with a work of fiction.
My mind is blown by the concept of pop culture as thinking material known by the many. To hell with science videos, I'm going to catch up on Game of Throne !
Many smart scifi shows use allegory to show weaknesses in society and values. It's easier to make a show about racism when it's alien races that's getting persecuted. It's easier to talk gender discrimination when you meet an alien race that only has one sex etc.
Some Star Trek does this better than others.
Before the worst end in history, Interstellar does this too.
As long as we're on the subject, satirizing societal norms around them are exactly why fantasy writers choose elves and dwarves... :o)
Thank you! Amazing! "overthinking is, in fact, just thinking"
I think you just verbalized the exact reason why I have loved Idea Channel.
Now the only thing left to do is to link to this video in every single past Idea Channel video.
Also, I agree with what you said about overthinking just being regular thinking for some people. When I try to understand why I find the original Transformers cartoon so enjoyable (the intractable nature of war, the realization of hidden potential, what it means to be courageous in daunting situations even when you feel inadequate and small), I don't think I'm overthinking anything. I'm just thinking about something I enjoy thinking about, and in turn, the opportunity to think deeply over the implications of the property as it relates to my own life makes me enjoy the property all the more.
Indeed. I dunno why, but some people, myself included, tend to just find engaging and enjoyabe breaking down and putting back together everything that they like. And if you like any part of popular culture (which, it is the name, most people find something in there enjoyable) then it is kind of obvious some people will just enjoy excersosng their analytical and pattern finding skills in them. Maybe even gaining a new understanding of the piece that other may find interesting
There's a wonderful way to put it - I am drawn to media that allows and encourages me to exercise my analytical and pattern finding skills. That's not to say that people who just wanna enjoy media as it is and for its own sake are "underthinkers" or anything; just that I have a different way of engaging with the media I consume.
There are some points in stories that I honestly miss because I'm looking too deep, and there are some others miss because they aren't looking deep enough. The forest for the trees, and the trees for the forest. It's good to bear many different perspectives in mind when considering meaning in culture, in all its forms.
The temptation to overthink this video is overwhelming.
Thank you for doing this. All of this. I can't count the times I was accused of overthinking things as a kid, or caught myself getting "too" into a story/fandom and given it up altogether because I felt like I was embarrassing myself. I wish I'd had your videos in middle and high school; Idea Channel has been one of the places it feels okay to be me.
This show will be missed.
This is a very nice video indeed, I'd say among the best ever for its clarity and the sheer breadth it covers. I'm definitely using many of these ideas in my musicology classes to talk about so-called popular musics (mainly because I already use most of them, but availability is not something I've looked into enough).
So once again thanks, Mike. Thike.
Brilliantly put across, one of my favourite entries from you guys
this has been the most important effect idea channel had on me, to consider everything ad worthh thinking and even overthinking about, and thereby also bringing "high brow topics" to an approachable layperson level.
edit: corrected a typo
I didn't realize it until this video, but the thing I like most about IC and the thing I will miss about it the most is how completely it embraces intellectualism while at the same time rejecting cynicism and elitism.
Exactly!!
I will miss IC terribly. I'd love to be dubbed an unrepentant overthinker. Be well.
I wonder who is allowed to "overthink" certain media? Do you have to be immersed in that media in order to have a say, or can casual fans contribute to the conversation as well?
Samantha Jayne I keep thinking about this. I've read plenty of bad books several times, papers on them, etc in order to feel "qualified" enough to comment on certain aspects of them. Maybe we aren't very welcoming as a whole? Casual fans (or casual consumers, in case people hate certain things and want to talk about them) might be anxious to comment because of the way they are -or might be- treated. There have been enough cases of insults and whatnot just because someone said, "I (didn't) like X." :/
I think, ideally at least, everyone can contribute, but not everyone can contribute equally. Those who are "immersed" are probably more capable of finding and communicating meaning in a work, but sometimes a casual fan can make a big contribution due to their specific perspective.
I think everybody should have the freedom to contribute to the extent of their desire (freedom of speech) and it's up to others to consume the discussion individually and collectively. If somebody includes a comment that is largely regarded as a negetive influence to the discussion, it's up to the other participants to either ignore or address the comment in question. There will always be people who do or don't like something, whether they are able to articulate why or not, and it's up to the listeners to decide if the opinion and ruminations of others are beneficial to the conversation and worth commenting on the other comments. This is how discussion and debate forms. One would think, the end goal of a debate is to come to a consensus, but that is certainly not always plausible, and the discussion in itself is more likely important in itself. It's very difficult to come to a consensus, after all, when you have participants constantly spontaneously entering and exiting discussions in mediums such as internet comment sections and forums.
tl;dr People should get to say what they want without qualifiers, and others in the discussion decide what to do about the contributions.
I just want to say that I love this so very much and it is thoroughly satisfying to have this explanation of building community in such a thoughtful way as one of the final ideas you put out into the world via this platform. I'm glad that minds like yours exist in the world. :)
The unexamined life is wasted. The unexamined idea doesn't exist; it is taken for granted as "common sense."
I think it is absolutely important to "overthink" popular culture. Popular culture is an expression of what we supposedly think, or should think. Who would decide that they do not want to know what it is that other people are telling us to think about the world, and just blindly accept moral, philosophical, and cultural dictates without question?
My most sincere thanks for this video, Mike! As someone living in a developing country struggling to explain and analyze pop culture at an pseudo academic level at best while fighting outdated scholars, authority figures, and sometimes even my own contemporaries, this video represents a toolbox which I'll surely put to use in my daily life. Can't express how deeply grateful I am for your insights. I'll be waiting eagerly for your next adventure after Idea Channel. Cheers!
Those who overthink are usually the greatest minds in history. All the greatest philosophers, thinkers, theorists, and the like had one thing in common: they kept going when people told them to just "go with it" and to stop overthinking. They refused to accept the status quo and just stop thinking, instead they asked the tough questions and challenged widely held beliefs. People are threatened by this, and that is why we are told not to read into stuff, especially popular culture where many have grown comfortable with the status quo.
omegasoldier382 I see this opinion commonly in any given "Nerd"-culture, maybe as a Shibboleth and usually as a justification when their activities are questioned or attacked by other cultural subgroupings who might deem the Nerds activities as "non-useful" to society.
I ponder on this justifications actual merit. I believe that there is no way to prove that ALL "great" thinkers (who might they be?) over-analyzed and therefore came over great insight. Then again, it is hard to find any counterexamples and show why it is wrong.
(Someone if you have a counterexample, please direct me to it.)
The justification seems therefore to be true, while simultaneously the justification is badly utilised. I might also imagine the response to this comment being "shut up, you're thinking wrong" which would indicate that whether the justification is true or false, all nuance has been lost which might deem the justification useless.
No TL:DR you lazy pricks. Read my possibly bad grammar.
Styrbjörn Lindberg there is no way to prove the fact that every great thinker is an overthinker for the simple reason that we cannot revive every person whose ideas were not only full of thought and influential to society and make them answer that question. However we can apply logic and common sense to the definition of "great thinker" I decided to arbitrarily use (in case you disagree with it, feel free to say which you are using). I consider a great thinker someone who took an area where they were both interested and well versed into and tried to understand it better than the people of their time, which made them influential and important in codifying the way people understand that area in the future.
However, in order to do that, they required to go beyond the understanding their peers shared, be willing to examine things that others didn't in order to understand it. In no situation, at least I am aware of, someone just received the knowledge without thinking it through. Even in the "Eureka!" moments in history, people who discovered this things were the kind of people who carry around a massive metaphorical "BUT WHY?!" sign around. Water movement might have been figured out cause someone dropped a crown in a bath, but I am sure a lot of people dropped stuff in small water containers through history, why then was a philosopher the one who thought it through? Cause he wasn't going to say "it happens cause that is how stuff works". He overthought it. And society got something from it.
Sure, not every overthinker is a great thinker, but I think I can safely extrapolate this to every great thinker was overthinking something.
Andres Arancio great point! I'll need some time to digest it, but it looks solid.
This show still is my favorite source for "thinking too hard about pop culture" as I've described it to the many friends I've introduced it to.
It's been a joy overthinking pop culture with you over the years!
To me, thinking and analyzing are on a two-way street with the other purpose of pop cutlure: enjoying. If i really like something I want to think about what it means. On the other hand, some of your episodes have shown me that there was something to consider in a bit of pop culture that i hadn't know about or had discounted, which has made me appreciate it more.
It would be great to encourage everyone to think about pop culture a bit more, turn to their buddies and say "Here's an idea!" For one thing, more people thinking means more great ideas. But the habit of thought also protects you from manipulation.
Just beautiful. I often get called on "overthinking" stuff that is "not worthy of giving such amount of time and thoughts" (For instance, music videos, lyrics, memes, anything actually). Sometimes (just to establish a point of reference) I connect said pop culture things to ideas of philosophy, theory, etc. Despite that, the answers I get are always things like "isn't that a little bit long-stretch?" or "Come on man, is just X thing! don't overthink it".
Well maybe it is endeed long-stretch, or overthinking, but I feel that is always necessary. I didn't know how to explain why is it necessary, but this video does a great job explaining why overthinking is just thinking. Thank you Idea Channel.
Just found this channel and I don't get everything from the first shot and I LOVE it. That is how I talk in real life.
I wish I had more to add. Overthinking is simply a way of life for me, and I'm happy to see someone so dedicated to the craft and so articulate in its execution. Thank you, and good luck with what comes next.
This channel has been amazing for all those years, thank you so much for everything. Im not a very active youtube user but this channel has provided me with great insights and played a big role in my thoughts, art, and well... life, I guess. Although Im very sad for the ending of Idea Channel, this past couple of weeks have also been quite inspiring for me personally, since Mike keeps talking about how we - the audience - have the power (or perhaps the duty?) to keep the wheel spinning and to keep having new ideas and to keep overthinking popular culture in a new way.
So I've been wondering, where to start? I mean, besides just doing it? How does one improve its ability to analyze and discuss? How to be more clear about the ideas you're trying to present? Not only as a content creator but also as an everyday human being in the attempt to have more of this kind of discussions with people in general.
Thanks again for everything, much love from Brazil
Thank you. I shed a tear adore your refreshing and calm voice. Keepthinking, brother!
The pointlessness of a task is not always determined by the outcome.
I call overthinking popular culture "appreciating" it, which might be important to get the ramble I will just throw myself in.
I believe we can enjoy media in a whole spectrum of ways, with loving it on one end and purely appreciating it in the other. By loving I mean receiving a strong emotional effect from it that makes us enjoy every second of it in a pure, mindless way. I would argue works that manage this are art, because they intended and managed to get an emotional reaction of us. These I find are also rarer to find, as so many works just fall flat in their face at trying to hit us emotionally.
Appreciating the work in the other hand requires some background, context and time thinking, but every work can be appreciated as every work has some meaning behind it (even if the meaning is as boring as "make money!", the road of figuring it out is what's more enjoyable). This makes appreciating popular culture, for me, a useful tool for personal enjoyment. I can get a kick of far more works than those who manage to touch my admitely cold stone heart.
Best pieces are those who can be enjoyed on any level of course, and those who are aware of the fact people will attempt to appreciate them and shape themselves accordingly. But in order to get the most juice of every media I consume I find that appreciating it as much as experiencing it passively is important and useful.
im going to miss this videos, i hope you the best in your new projects and i hope to see you again someday in some other place
Shift your perspective.
We don't overthink.
Other people underthink.
I think framing it like this is dangerous because it places the over thinkers in a position of superiority. And while that implied position may be deserved, it should not be had. self righteousness is the downfall of clear, honest thought.
I personally like and agree with what you're saying, Dmaspak. There really isn't one """right""" way to go about media consumption.
But there is a way of consuming media that I personally value, and thats the over analytical idea channel way. Feel free to veg out in front of your TV or PC from time to time. I won't tell you you're wrong to do that. But I certainly won't be singing your praises. in a way, that is inherent worceness, if only internally to me.
DrQuijano
Thumbs down.
You're not even pedantic.
I know Michael Jordan, I'm just being faciteous ^__^
I think Dmaspak is spot-on with his comment: "it's not so much as one person is under thinking or that another is overthinking [...] it's perhaps more that the two are consuming media in different ways."
To some extent you can argue that 'overthinking' can be a bad thing if it distracts you from the rest of your life and limits your ability to reach your own personal goals.
For example, as a society, we wouldn't want doctors who were tired for surgery because they were up late fanatically analysing a new season of the walking dead for its cultural implications the night before. I think there's also an element of diminishing returns on a personal level - as we move through the education system and mature, we should aim to get a grasp on some major themes to society, politics, economics and culture. But once we've done this, we can internalise some of that knowledge, continue to use those skills as new developments/interests arise and move on. With a system as complex as all of human collective consciousness, we'll never find that one 'key' to understanding, even if there are many routes we can go down to understand more. And as an individual, no matter how 'enlightened' we are, there will always be limits placed on us by society that we cannot ourselves change to any great extent. We have to accept that and remember to focus on the aspects of society we can do well in for the well being of ourselves and those around us.
There is, of course, a lot of subjectivity in what exactly 'overthinking' would look like, or what the most important things to have thought critically about are, but we should recognise that overthinking does at least have the potential to be a bad thing.
Thank you. I've been avoiding making art after a very depressive time in my life for years. This video makes me want to spread my overthinking through my personal art again. It matters to create. BTW I live in NYC and hate that I can't come to say thanks for the channel in general. Great work.
A few weeks ago, I was watching Idea Channel and my husband overheard a bit and asked which philosopher I was listening to. I said it was Mike on Idea Channel. He responded, "But it is philosophy, right?" Yeah, it's philosophy. I love (some) pop-culture and over-think everything, so this is a great way to learn philosophy.
This was amazingly well-put and thought provoking.
Thanks!
my wife had this notion once, that Lassie (the tv show) was an unofficial prequel to the Final Destination series and she was told she "thinks about stuff too much"
This is the episode that should have been one of the first, the presentation of the thesis of the project.
It is also one that could only have been made retrospectively.
There are no snacks at Opera??? You just gave me another excuse to never go. Thanks PBS Idea Channel.
In regards to the third charge, I think it's important to remember that just because the media creator wants you not to "look into" their media doesn't mean you shouldn't. For example, if I'm a deceptive and corrupt ruler, I wouldn't want my subjects to look into my proclamations, figure out why I issued it, and subsequently raise concerns, issues, and reasons to go against my word. Look into the media presented to you, challenge untenable ideas, resist deception, and may intellectual honesty live forever.
Reading a comment by some "Samantha Jayne" made me think about how popular culture breeds its own Ivory Towers. How that weird cosmogony of elitist -capital g- Geekdom is in a way a non self-conscious construct of the same type as Academia and/or the non-popular culture, often adopting similar trends and structures. Would that make them the Ivory Towers of Pop Culture?
I guess that also answers what I think of overthinking, but let's delve into that too: I have for a long time been ambivalent about "overthinking". On the one side it as due to my many biases (like placing too much value into Academia and too little into pop culture). However, I also think there was one other obstacle, and that is the fact that pop culture tends to sit closer to the heart, and that may make us all the more dreadful of breaking it. Letting go of that fear isn't just thinking pop culture is harder to break than we think, but also accepting that it CAN happen, and seeing it as an opportunity to grow beyond what, in many senses, makes us. You know, dealing with the whole deconstruction AND reconstruction, not unlike when one suffers from and then overcomes existential dread (which by the way is also a common consequence of overthinking). At this point I would be asking if I'm being too convoluted, but, well, THIS VIDEO...
I wonder if there was a fourth final episode planned, but the preparation animation sequence took up the rest of the budget.
To me, thinking about popular culture and how it fits into our own personal life and the ideals we attempt to hold true true can serve as a great shortcut to self-reflection. One of the more difficult things we can face is being honest with ourselves. By thinking (or "overthinking") about the more physical things (media/goods of popular culture) we choose to either surround ourselves with, or distance ourselves from, we can gain an idea of what is consistent and absent in those things, and therefore gain insight into what may be consistent or absent within us. Using the popular culture items can also serve as a separation or disconnect, making it easier to be honest about them in a critical sense (whether positively or negatively) than it could be to have the same level of scrutiny and honesty about ourselves.
San Francisco does an annual Opera in the Ballpark, which I think makes the genre a lot more approachable. Maybe it's partly because the setting is so informal--it just doesn't seem nearly as snobbish when you're surrounded by regular folks in regular clothes, buying fatty stadium food to enjoy while watching centuries-old Italian high culture. I've been several times, and there's always a crowd; if you don't reserve, you'll be waiting forever. It seems to me there are a sizeable number of people who are just as interested in the highfalutin as they are the down-to-earth, as long as they're given opportunity and 'permission' to enjoy it.
Mike,
Great job with Idea Channel. I look forward to see what you do next.
Rob
sometimes i comeback here and think about what we had... its been five long years since the end and no channel has sprung up to fill the void left by this channel...
So sad this channel is going. Loved the editing and the commentary.
My thoughts about your overthinking about overthought of popular culture are, like they have been so many times in the past, the same as yours. Resounding agreement, bouncing around the inside of my head.
Mike in today's episode you said something that really framed my inability to put forth any interesting thoughts in the past comment sections very well.
"What many people call 'overthinking' is just thinking for those accused." And if that isn't the me-est thing you've ever said I don't know what is. It made me realize, that in all but so few cases, the things you've talked about here are things that I already understood, but just didn't explicitly know yet. In nearly every episode you've ever done, everything you've said has always fallen so neatly into place that I couldn't ever help but wonder why I didn't already know what you were saying.
In knowing your justification for doing all of this in the first place, I've come to understand:
That you and I are so on the same page that I can't do anything more than to sit back and say "yeah."
What that brings me to now, I guess, is: Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I'm honestly not sure. maybe you can help me out here Mike.
Thanks for all the videos going to miss this channel best wishes to you for all your endeavors in the future adios
We as audience love your work good sir.
The picture at 0:48 is amazing btw.
I also concur with the conclusion of this video that thinking is important.
Regarding the power that creators have, here's where I favour allegory as an artist tool to get messages across. Without overthinking allegory as a tool would be useless.
As someone writing a book where the main character is suffering from a mixture of depression, social anxiety, and OCD for a large portion of it, I can absolutely be on board with Pop Culture's importance. It's not so much about those themes for me as it is making sure that what I'm representing I'm representing accurately so that other people can understand. Themes will arise, but if I can make people stop for a second and think about that character and what's going on with their mind, I think I've accomplished my goal.
I love that Smosh Games represents video games. Perfect! Edit: What are the differences between the terms public and commercial? Edit 2: 11:43 The Nintendo copyright reference literally made me laugh aloud.
Thank you. I'm accused of over-thinking all the time!
Oh im gonna miss this channel soo much
Damn I literally just heard of PBS Idea Channel today 9/20/17.. I hope your video stay up I want to check them out.
Better an unrepentant overthinker than an overrepentant underthinker
That was beautiful. I'm glad there's one more, but if this was the last one it would have been one for the record books.
Long time viewer...first comment. Two things.
1. I teach college composition through the lenses of pop culture and semiotics and I have always appreciated the academic focus that this channel has brought to a host of different topics.
I agree wholeheartedly with your position on 'over-thinking' and as others in the comments have suggested I believe that most people are just 'under-thinking' or not thinking at all about the media/goods that they consume.
That sort of passive acceptance of the world clearly restricts the way that people think about the world around them. A more active, idea rich approach is what I try to foster among my students with varying degrees of success.
2. One of the things that my courses discuss during a new media unit is whether or not services like CZcams challenge the culture producers. Sure, a lot of those spaces have been co-oped by corporations, but the possibility of creating content that is divorced from the culture industry does still exist. Do you see a service like CZcams providing a venue for folks to challenge hegemony?
Thank-you for all of the hard work over the years. I always knew I could count on this channel to provide a break from the 75th essay on V for Vendetta.
I think overthinking popular culture is not only acceptable, but natural. If the things we consume could not be subject to interpretation, analysis, and debate, why would we consume them at all?
"why would we consume them at all?"
Do we have any choice? I live in a country where, if i go to the movies, there is no sign at all of anything related to my own country culture, only films produced by muti-billion companies from USA. I never wanted to consume this specific kind of culture, but it is almost all there is, so if I want to go to the movies, i must submit to this dominant culture. There is nothing voluntary or natural in consuming pop culture. It is the result of economic imposition. At the same time, this situation produces the illusion of the self-determined consumer, who "chooses" to consume that specific kind of product, only because he brought the ticket.
The content of the video and its commentaries makes me think that it is harder to see how coercive culture is when one lives at the United States...
Proud to be an overthinker.
Make that a tshirt
Excellent argumentation. And also: It's fun.
As someone who encountered theory based analysis at university in tandem with a musical theatre degree, I always felt like despite my passion and ability to analyse things, it always felt somewhat pointless? This video was one of the most affirming things I could have ever watched right now in my life.
its a pity i have only recently become a part of the idea channel community. Thanks for the work
I think many people don't like when you "read too much into stuff" because we are all still very close to the idea of author as "the only authority": the only one who is responsible of the ultimate meaning of his work.
And yet in school we have to get to the interpretation that the scholars thought is the right one and alternatives are frowned upon.
Bad teachers frown upon different ideas. Good teachers only frown upon them if they are badly written or poorly supported. Many times accusations of the former are actually the result of the latter. But not always, by any means.
You should make a compilation bluray, usb, or something. A cool little totem/ keepsake. I think it could become a time capsule which captures the pop culture of the last 5 years and how it relates to the unchanging human condition.
Definitely interesting points. I disagreed with almost everything you said, except the last point about analyzing everything. Beautiful channel, beautiful person, and beautiful work. Farewell
I find the concept of overthinking to be highly subjective. Just because one person sees something as meaningless doesnt mean another does, just because one person thinks something is dumb doesnt mean it isnt the most important thing in the world to another.I am known among my friends for having a notably bad taste in video games and movies, it doesnt mean i don't love the thing i love as much as you love your thing you and most people in the world think is good. The point i am getting at is meaning has always been subjective, so inevitably overthinking is subjective.
...Of course emoji should be included in quotations of written work - they are, at the very least, as significant as punctuation, and potentially as significant as entire sentences. In either case, they convey meaning by themselves, and/or add context to interpret the rest of the statement. Not including them can erodes meaning just as much as missing off an important word can.
5:04 is such a meme, I’m *DYING!!* 🤣🤣😂😂
I edit sales copy, and I think emoji should be included in quotes, but that emoji should be both singular and plural. Ie, one emoji two emoji. But that's just me. I'd definitely follow the style guide set out by the senior editors wherever I happened to be at the time.
I love overthinking! So thank you for overthinking overthinking!!! I believe ideas are held back by masses of people who fear change. Fear the unknown. I have a possible solution for the theory of everything... Or a possible contribution to it. It's about the magnetic side of the electromagnetic force and gravity. It may be modulated to produce concious whole "feeling".. It keeps coming out of left feild and I haven't be able to "learn it away" in fact, my delving into the concepts of quantum physics, bolsters my assumptions.. I dismantle through science, and generalize with art, they came together in a larger picture (s).
By the way my name is Eddy, I'm living in ft Myers..... If anyone should dare to care... LOL
hell yeah, how you doing eddy?
This is the most Idea Channel-y Idea Channel episode ever! I'm so sad it's ending :(
This is one of the best episodes ever.
I think if the emojis are significant to the quote as it's being used, they should be included and/or described (potentially included with alt-text for accessibility), but if they're not significant to the usage they should be omitted as with excess words because ellipses are beautiful.
Oh wow... you made a video about a comment I made a few episodes ago... lol
However, the term "over-thinking" (worthwhile as it may be) I would expect could be used in two different contexts. The context in this video is definitely accurate and I'm not dismissing at all, but I do wonder about the negative consequences of incredibly rigorous analysis, especially when objective truth is so rarely agreed upon.
There is value in just being, and not thinking constantly (meditation comes to mind), and I think (yes, I understand the irony here) there is just as much value in actually quieting the mind to find a different kind of truth, one of pure experience, and that in my experience is inherently agreeable and peaceful. I just think as a culture we are starting to forget that and are being more and more driven by the methodical mechanisms of our brains to a degree that sometimes resembles addiction. This is especially true when confirmation bias cloaks itself as open-mindedness...
This isn't really a comment so much about how "over-thinking" relates to pop culture, but just an examination of the term "over-thinking." Also, the subject matter and the viewer/consumer/producer/analyst themselves have a large role in this as well (the primary role, really) and I've absolutely loved what you have done with this channel and I'm very sad to see you go.
I'll miss you so much...
If the finale doesn’t have everyone on the production team and everyone you’ve collaborated with surrounding you clapping. Saying congratulations. I will be a little bit sad
"why over think". Because why not? It's often fun and your perception of the thing is changed. Often becoming deeper and more interesting.
I love this episode so much! I strongly agree with it and would like to share a story that I hope you get a chance to see, Mike. A story of my own version of a kind of Idea Channel that I maintained until a few years ago with the birth of my son.
Conversation between very different kinds of people fascinates me and I'm always looking for diverse groups to have interesting discussions with. They almost always happen in the places you least suspect, and I was surprised when I found it in the early Minecraft community's official forums.
The Minecraft forums have members from all over the world in all sorts of economic situations and professional backgrounds. In the early days these were largely people in their 20's and 30's looking for a community to be a part of, and what happened is that many of these people ended up forming their own community completely unrelated to Minecraft on the Minecraft forums in the off topic section of the site.
Fairly quickly I became a regular in discussions on world events, politics, economics, religion, and other similarly controversial topics that are generally not allowed on other video game forums. I loved the fact that they not only existed on the Minecraft forums, but the discussion there was actually intelligent and considerate. Minecraft wasn't the topic of discussion - it was the conduit that brought people together for discussion about life outside of the game. Popular culture was serving a purpose analogous to Idea Channel. It was the means to reaching a wide and diverse audience.
I became such an active contributor that eventually the staff made me a moderator and then an administrator of that section of the site. My goal was to provide an active and safe area for quality conversation for all the diverse people coming in because of Minecraft. What happened was that the off topic area became a resting place for people who had formed relationships through Minecraft even if they hadn't played the game in years. The community outlived the game.
Of course there were problems. Not everyone was respectful and the changes in Minecraft were lowering the average age of the community. The owner of the site was openly hostile to my section because it was occasionally troublesome and not directly related to the focus of the site. As the age continued to go down the quality of discussion went down. Not so much because the members were less capable of discussing controversial issues, but because the pool of people capable of moderating discussion was shrinking. The site mostly ran on volunteers like myself chosen from the best members, and the best members were becoming far too young to handle the difficult moderation job that discussions on controversial topics instigated.
Eventually all discussion of politics, religion, economics, philosophy, and world events in general was banned and my section of the site closed down. I worked to keep it alive for several years, but it became unsustainable. Many people were disappointed to see it go, but many were also happy about it.Its existence was always a point of contention with people.
The critique of the off topic discussion on the Minecraft forums mirrors the idea of "overthinking" media. Dissenters thought it didn't belong on the Minecraft forum. That it should go to a politics forum or a philosophy forum instead. But that would have defeated the magic of it. Go to a philosophy forum and you get a bunch of philosophy nerds and academics. Go to a political forum and it'll be an echo chamber for a particular political ideology. Look at the continual splintering of groups on social media like Reddit to see the toll it takes on discussion to not have a broad range of people bringing different ideas to the table. This is why it had to be somewhere like the Minecraft official forums.
It's also why I understand why Idea Channel is ending. You can't maintain it forever; you have to enjoy it while it lasts. Since leaving the Minecraft forums, Idea Channel has given me back some of what I've lost and for that I've been very thankful.
If you happen to recognize me from the forums, then let me answer the question that I know you probably want to ask me; No, I don't know of anywhere to get what you got out of the Minecraft forum off topic back in the day. It was one of the largest communities on the internet at the time and I don't know any of that scale that allow philosophical discussion anymore. If you, or anyone else has any suggestions, please respond with them. I'd love to know that this kind of experience hasn't disappeared from the internet altogether.
Metadigital This is fascinating. Thanks for sharing the brief story of your journey. I'm sad it ended for you and others truly engaged in that community. It does make me wonder if there's something about communities existing like this that only have a certain longevity or specific range of critical mass (either numbers or demographics) that make the magic happen...
greatly informative and relevant to everyone. :)
Don't go away, Mike. What will I do without you?
I cannot do without your over-thinking. :( :( :(
Is Magic The Gathering available to the masses ?
GiggitySam Entz yes. Competitive magic not so much
Since vailable doesn't mean affordable... what did he say to define the masses? Like it could be a lot of people or just one person or something
Oh, Simon DeZubiría Restrepo Explained it better: "The problem with the word masses is the ilusion that we are the majority, a fake majority with internet, smartphones, and even clean toilets."
Edit: he's some guy comenting on this video.
One of the unique things about magic the gathering as a card game compared to other card games is its longevity. It results in a kind of cross generational mixing of people that otherwise wouldn't. People who were around at the beginning are now in their 30s and 40s.
At one store I used to frequent which was in the CBD of my city. On Friday night for Friday night magic. People would come down from their office towers in their suits to play magic in a basement with kids fresh out of high school who speak in this strange slang and constantly reference memes. And you got everyone in between, college, postgrad etc. These people would otherwise would have no opportunity to interact with each other. But can do so through the language of the game.
Also plenty of parents handing down their collections and love of the game to their children at this point. I see lots of father son and father daughter duos. None of the other games are really old enough for that to happen yet.
As the others noted It is "available" to the masses. If it can get broad cross demographic appeal/fan base rather than a small niche of very similar people.
Ert an a lot of the developing have way way cheaper internet than you'd think. I'm in Vietnam and pay $10/mo for 5.5GB of fairly reliable 4G
Not a copy editor but I think I would include emojis in quotes. Though, they are just like other punctuation, and if you can quote a thumbs up without a literal thumbs up, it's no skin off my nose. I would note however that emojis are becoming numerous in the ideas that they communicate to the world, so it may only get harder to avoid quoting them in the first place.
Beautiful *tearful*
I think an important point in this video in comparison to the last one is the whole "theory as tool" thing.
I may be wrong in my interpretation of your argument, but it's interesting to consider at least with your general argument about high-theory as a tool to analyze things, a common perspective when it comes to theory I notice, but also to consider the subject of popular culture as a tool to play with in itself.
Take your recent Magic the Jazzering episode for example. You not only take the theories of Adorno for example and apply it to Jazz and Magic; you apply Jazz's tenants to Magic and vice-versa, critique Adorno's ideas Using Jazz or Magic.
The way you consider popular culture isn't solely as a thing to map on crazy ideas to, but as an idea worth considering itself, of equal (albeit different) value with that of "real ideas" or theory as an institution.
doesn't the fact that we're having to rely on the thoughts of philosophers & cultural theorists (all super-notorious overthinkers) land this whole argument with an implicit bias? what do the people who DON'T think about stuff actually think?
They don't. Thats the problem.
This raises the question of what the difference is between entertainment and art. Does she feel that same way about a Picasso?
"Stop bringing politics into my video games. I play them to escape from that."
That's really the main problem with any kind of discussion like this. Any assertion about values is inherently loaded with it's own set of values.
You can see this in this very comment thread. The perceived other position is demonized and belittled. And even you, characterizing that position as "not thinking". Personally, I see what Idea Channel does as, more specifically than just "overthinking", is several methods of deconstructionism, which I can and will argue is oftentimes a counterproductive and even destructive effort. Obviously you can have even very deep critique and evaluation without deconstructionism of any sort, but you won;t find that here. His method of doing things is just one, as he will acknowledge, but the problem arises when you use your admittedly debatable methods to attempt to characterize not just the debate but the framework of the debate and the assumptions that surround it.
Culture simply refelcts the thoughts and feelings of a socitey's people.
So Popular cultrue reflects thoughts and feelings popular among a society.
by understanding popculture we understand the thoughts and feelings of our neighbours.
I remember seeing someone misinterpret Death of The Author and it was very meta.
I really appreciate this show because it exists as itself
Thank you
Thank you, Idea Channel, for teaching me the proper way to pronounce "GIF" and "meme".