New Lightweight Full Power EMTB | EMBN Show 319
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- In this week's EMBN Show, Steve Jones is joined by Anna Cipullo and they're checking out the new Cannondale Moterra SL and asking if this could be the first full-powered lightweight bike? In the rest of the show, we look at a new Focus, some new Park Tools tools and your usual favourites including some great-looking places in Cool Places, what’s locked away in the Bike Vault and much more!
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⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 - Welcome to the EMBN Show!
00:17 - The new Cannondale Moterra SL | New Focus Vam SL | New eBike tools from Park Tools
07:59 - Cool Places
09:51 - Tech Attack | Tubeless setup mess-free tutorial!
11:07 - Feedback
15:11 - Get involved in the community!
17:28 - Bike Vault
18:57 - #GETTINGSOCIAL
20:00 - EMBN Shop shoutout
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What do you think of the new Cannondale Moterra SL? Share your thoughts below! 👇
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What do you think of the new Cannondale Moterra SL? Share your thoughts below! 👇
Nice!🎉
Didn't Cannondale go into receivership just a little while ago?
Let's see if they give us a version with Bosch motor.
The most important questions about this light, full powered Cannondale are how does it compare to the competition and how well it rides.
very cool!
Great addition having Anna on the show. Keep up with the good content y'all 👍
If you're going to dry fit the tyre and seat the bead (which you should anyway, if only to check as per the video), just remove the valve core and inject the sealant through there - there is no need to pull one side of the tyre off again and potentially get all messy...
Absolute bang on..why take the 1 side off again?... I've been removing the core and putting my sealant in for years through the valve..no mess no fuss
I've always poured my milk into the side of the tyre, clogs up the valve your way.
...no idea.@@utid7144
Ive always done this, simply inject in through valve body, fit valve core and inflate.
@@CurvedSlightlyreally easy fix to that problem actually, pour through with the valve removed, then poke a small screwdriver/allen key down and then wind up a small bit of tissue, definitely a lot less messy. even done this method with inserts and still had good results
One stunning bike. The black and gold 😮
Has to be said that a 20kg ebike is easier to get on bike racks as well cos they’ll fit on standard racks at that weight. I’d be very tempted by that as an eventual replacement for my EXe. Love a Cannondale.
You’ve almost got me?! That Cannondale is gorgeous!!! Still analogue Santa Cruz for a bit longer for me but it’s getting there. Love these discussions and the reviews. Mint! 👍
You should go to harmony ridge above Nevada city. Hit Scott’s flat, talon show and hoot. Bidwell is good too if you like the background in that chico bike. It’s rough! But e-bikes are good to go.
Harmony is very fun and flow trails. Now there is always Downieville. Head up to Redding to go to Swazey. This time of year there’s snow so high elevation might be closed. Auburn is lower
Totally agree with EMTB specific tyres. Iv tried normal tyres and they didn't last at low pressures. I'm now running the pirelli scorpion and they have been great.
Thanks for the Squamish shout out. Come for a visit!
I have a Levo Comp Alloy and I never take it out of Eco mode. Because of this I have opened my mind to all SL models, as well as other brands.
I’m in! That would be awesome if we were able to make something work sometime. EMTB has opened up so many new lines for me and there are a lot of places I want to go ride it. Exploring new spots like in that video is a blast. Thanks for the shoutout!
Here's the model prices straight from the Cannondale web site: SL 14,000 USD, SL1 8,750 USD and SL2 7,000 USD.
I agree with Steve that you don't need 50+ teeth on a 12 speed cassette on an EMTB. I have been running 11 speed Linkglide for over a year now and wouldn't have anything else on an eMTB now, it wears so much better and so is much better value. I think it would be a good idea to put out a video of what eMTB specific componnts are out there and why they would be worth considering, or not, for certain types of riding. Interesting the point Steve made about marketeers wanting the 'in fashion' tech on the bikes, explains a lot !!
Big fan of EMBN. Thanks for providing us all with great content!👌🏼🩵
EMTB specific stuff is good if there is actually a difference in the part. My bike came with a bunch of stickers on different components saying "emtb ready" and what that means is: the same part as on a normal bike- but it probably doesn't break with a few kg more weight.
I have had 3 rides on this on the SL 1 Version of this bike and own it. 60 or so miles with 4.5 thousand feet of elevation. In my opinion this bike feels like a Stump Jumper Evo with a motor. Didn't really notice how slack it is with some of the video reviews that mentioned it. The biggest thing I noticed is that when the motor shuts off at 20 mph that you can still peddle this bike and gain speed in the flat and down hill sections without feeling like a pig in the mud. Compared to my Turbo Levo, I would say the the Levo will have more power in climbs but can't hang with this bike in the flats or downhill. I would shorten the cranks on this from 165 to 160 as I had a few strikes in areas that I normally wouldn't. I also noticed that because of the weight of this bike on the trail, it's not as heavy as a levo or a 50 plus pound bike is you'll take a little more of a beating and feel it in your body because it's not as "damp" as a heavier bike would be. I was definitely in the cold plunge after riding this bike and much more sore in my body due to vibration, damping, etc. My personal opinion is if you're looking to race this ebike in emtb xc races or enduros climbing power and output is where this bike may not shine. But downhill and flats is where you could possibly make up ground. This bike is extremely fast and peddles well. Can handle drops and jumps, I wouldn't worry about the flex stays.
Looking good Anna!
I ride a FreyAM1000 with Minions on the front and disectors on rear. they are great.
Great show Steve & Anne. Love the chemistry between you two really makes for an enjoyable show.
You all need to be using ebike specific sealant, it makes such a difference.
Haha did you notice a few of the bikes on bike vault had rear mudguards 🙂...lol
Arthur
i'm new to the emtb investigation space. What's a full emtb vs a non-full emtb situation that according to this video is a big deal if it can come in at 20kg vs the 17kg I'm seeing some other ones like specialized offerings coming in at?
San Clemente “Dog Park” it’s such a fun place to ride in SoCal
Should I look away as it has the shimano motor , being I’m biased to my brose motor which has been faultless for 1700 + miles , I do like the look of these
I run Maxxis Assegai DH tires (2.5 front and rear) with tubolite inserts 🥰🥳. HUGE difference from regular tires…try it if you ride fast tech stuff 👍🏼
You shouldn't be using the Assegai up the rear, it's a FR only
Anne, If you're going to Scott's Valley CA. You should ride Demonstration forest. There is also Pogonip / Emma Mcrary trails near UCSC! Some trails are not in the best shape due to all the rain, but are legal trails.
Enjoy!
Demonstration forest is eMTB friendly? Pogonip, Emma Mcrary too? What app do you use to identify these eMTB friendly trails in the SC and Los Gatos area.
No EMTB @ demo
Why are you sad about the presence of Linkglide? It is the best traditional drivetrain for full power ebikes. 3x lifetime. Perfect.
Your right Steve on Two counts one weight in an ebike is no bad thing unless you have to lift it over gates or are a lite weight rider and 2 suspension length and build will not stop a skilled rider gosh we have all seen skilled riders ride gravel bikes on jumps and rough terrain 😊
Arthur
We have indeed! Sam Pilgrim has even managed to backflip a gravel bike 🤘
Why retatape during the tubeless installation? It used to be suggested to put an additional layer of tape. If it wouldn’t seat up is that what you’re saying or do you mean replacing it with the same tape but applying it again and why would that help? Can you explain that, and not just move past it, because some of us have been doing tubeless for a long time and want to know why you think that’s the solution
I can give you trail recs when you’re in Scotts Valley (I live here). I don’t know how to give you my info without displaying it on CZcams.
If they went back to their half fork front suspension units would more weight be saved. I rode one of those about 20 years ago and loved it
yeah, 20 years ago, 20!
They still use the lefty on analog bikes no?@@CurvedSlightly
Wish you could get your hands on a Bulls Copperhead EVO AM 3 750 for that "Affordable Bike" video. $3600 for a Bosch drive bike!!
The cannondale is super sexy, a nit expensive but I understand why. Its amazing
Please make a emtb specific parts and tyres video
I think it would be interesting to actually see the difference between an 'eMTB' tyre and a regular Enduro or DH casing tyre from the same manufacturer?
I suspect they are the effectively the same [carcass construction]... other than the compound perhaps? Certainly racing focused DH/Enduro tyres tend to feature their soft/est compound, while you're better off with a slightly harder/longer wearing compound on an eMTB not just because of the extra torque you're putting through them, but also because you're like to be riding more miles.
fwiw. I've switched from using the T9 compound Specialized tyres to their T7 version, and find they last appreciably longer with no real descernable lack of grip.
It was a shame that EMBN was not invited to come to Terras de Bouro in Portugal to participate in the Cannondale Moterra SL press release. I would like to see your opinion based on direct contact with the bike.
I wish I had a UDH set up so I could use all the SRAM transmission set up. I do think SRAM makes the best components except for their Brakes which suck. I'm a dyed in the wool Hope Brakes guy because every aspect of using and maintaining Hope brakes offer the best performance out on the trails...I love my Vittoria Tires!
I can see a future with eMTB wheels that include bead lockers. I dont want or need them btw.
Did i hear right, advertise sub 20k but for a medium, what's a large base build weigh then?
Do you want a good Question? Can you have an episode that talks about what bikes are available in the USA? Seems like most aren’t and frankly, I don’t wanna waste my time hearing about them. If I can’t consider purchasing one it’s like going to Saks Fifth Avenue with no credit card.!
44 teeth is fine when the motor is on. But when it's off you need that 50+.
Canada was amazing. Think about where they would be if they didn’t have that crazy motorcycle that bankrupted them.
Weight matters to me. I need to carry my bike up a tight flight of stairs to go for a ride. It’s really awkward and hard on my knees. I’m old 😂
On my 12 speed ebike. I only use 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 don't need the rest
Not going up steep enough hills then
20Kg’s a sweet spot, except when it’s the second e-bike into the back of the car after a big day out; except at the last uplift at end of the second day at Dyfi; except over that style on a naughty little add-on to a legal path; not when it’s stopped altogether 1/2 way round a big day; not when pushing up through the ferns and brambles trying to find that off-piste ‘I’m sure is round here somewhere…’. But would I swap back or avoid any of the above? NEVER🎉🎉🎉
One stunning woman .🤘
Just need a range extender now ..... oh there's another 1.5kg 😂
That's a couple of kilos you don't have to lug around for your after work rides where it's not needed.
Where is Isaac and Martin too? Feels like it's been a while.
I am reluctant to buy anything but Bosch motors because only Bosch hast that 10 year parts availability policy.. I don't think Shimano or Brose motors are any worse in quality- but if they break you are basically stranded since you can neither have the unit repaired nor get a stand alone unit as a replacement
Steve is right on the weight issue on emtb. Too much marketing in the SL category.
Maxxies dhr and dhl 2.3 normal mtb tyres on my ebike.
“we are not suggesting you should spend 5 figures on a bike”. Oh? Well too late now. 😂
I don’t understand trying to make big bruiser emtbs “lightweight.” They’re not really lighweight- their website for the $7,000 model says “as little as 45.4 lbs.” First of all, newsflash, that’s not lightweight. That’s still a relatively heavy bike. But they don’t give any more info on the bike that it represents- i.e. what size is 45.4 lbs. but knowing bike companies as I do, I’ll bet that is the medium or, given the phrasing “as little as” might even be a small. Just for context, my Ibis Oso in size large, list price $8,000 that I got for $6,500, is 53 lbs. And second newsflash, with a battery, 5-7 lbs doesn’t make a difference on trail handling. What will make more of a difference are the spec choices, geo, and suspension design and shock tuning.
So let’s talk about spec choices bc that is often how the shave weight- the Cannondale has 203 mm rotors, EXO tires front and rear, a Fox 36, 30 mm internal width rims and a 601wH battery. So let’s break that down. First let me start by saying there is nothing wrong with any of these components just general, but we have to ask if they are the best choice for a 45 lb + machine that is going to be charging through gnar. And having ridden emtbs with both this type of spec and a more burly spec, let me say that the burlier is definitely better. Let’s start with the tires- EXO casing tires on any 45 + bike claiming to be all mountain/enduro is criminally negligent. They should at least have Exo +, and really should DD or even DH. And this goes hand in hand with the rims choice- sure 30 mm internal width is fine, but a 35 mm internal width will be stronger and allow a nice 2.5 wide tire sit even better and handle even better. Because here’s the thing some people, especially those who have never ridden emtbs don’t get, that little bit of weight savings, even as rotational weight, just doesn’t matter when you have a motor. Especially when consider that you will kill those tires in no time flat trying ride them on enduro trails at a pushing it speed with a bike that heavy. And this same logic but to a lesser degree applies to the fox 36 up front- it is a fine fork, it can handle the duties, but a better choice for what this bike is designed for is a Fox 38. So why did they spec the 36? In order to get to the weight number for marketing. But again, with a motor the small weight savings just doesn’t matter, even less so than for the tires. Just put on the proper burly fork, bc if you give people a full power motor, with enduro geo, they are going to smash with the bike- and that is a lot more enjoyable with a 38. They also spec’d 203 mm rotors front and rear. That sounds impressive if you are coming from a regular mtb, but at the speeds that emtbs go and with their extra weight, you want the most stopping power as possible. A 220 up front should be mandatory, but better yet would be 220s front and rear. And once again, chasing that weight savings doesn’t matter with a motor- much better than the weight savings is being able to stop or slow that beast as needed. And last but not least let’s look at the battery- they went 601wH to save weight, but have it paired to a full power motor. If it were me on that bike, at 210 lbs before gear, the way I ride, I’d constantly be having range anxiety and I doubt it would be enough. Sure you can lower the power on the motor, but then you’re pedaling a 45+ lb bike with that much less help- so what was the point of all of this then?
So I am on team Jonesy on this issue-
on big burly emtbs, stop trying to save weight. Let’s not forget that DH racers for years have been riding heavy bikes that many have even added weight to. On fast gnarly DHs weight is your friend- and once you add a motor to a bike you can build a bike optimized for DH that still flies up hill. So let’s stop thinking like XC riders when building DH oriented bikes.
Where I do like the idea of a lightweight emtb is on a true lightweight emtb- something in the 35 lb range. But with today’s tech that will be a lower power motor, for which a smaller battery is fine. And the lighter spec components is fine bc those bikes should not be thought of as designed for all mountain/enduro, but rather traditional trail bikes for a bit lighter duty. And when people do throw them down some gnarly stuff, with the lighter weight, the lighter components will be fine, it’s just that that use is not their design focus.
The one bike that is an outlier to all of this to me is the Transition Relay due to its ability to remove the battery all together which combined with a low drag motor puts it in its own category.
If only it was bosch and 750wh. I don't mind a little more weight for bigger battery
The light ebike debate and why.? I have an Intense 675T which I love, riding on long 10-30 mile rides but I also like my Mondraker Crafty XR full power but if I had a lighter ebikes I can ride it without a battery as a slightly heavier analogue bike no battery anxiety or as an ebike and sell my Intense 🤔 best of both worlds..what do you think?
Arthur
That's Transition Bikes schtick about their Relay emtb.
Glad to see CD have finally ditched the Lefty thay only CD thought was a good idea and just kept on trucking.
Not interested in behind the desk bike reviews. Singletrack did a real review. Need to step it up.
Well it's not only tires are overrated for e-mtb but a wheels too .. They just doesn't last on that power
I'd say the cannondale bike is basically an Orbea Rise with different standard settings, they even share the same motor. The Orbea has a slighty smaller battery but the lowest price is 2000 euros higher for the Cannondale. So no this is nothing new to me, because this type of bike is already out there for significantly lower price, so much that at least for me even a perfect geometry could not justify the difference.
Except the Rise Peak NM is 60 and cannondales is 85 NM same motor agreed but different software to change output of motor
@@davefreeman9347 The Settings on the orbea Rise can also be changed in the app in a way that it provides full power
Steve, do you not have gates in wales? no one wants to lug a 25-30kg+ bike over a fence or onto the roof of their car, riding performance is one thing but the practicalities of living with such an ungainly heavy awkward object just arent great i think the 20kg is around the mark brands should be aiming for with proper tyres and wheels
I love the bike. Light weight is important for someone with a fat butt like me.
Why would you sacrifice a few Gramms to an not swappable battery for 10K
The Cannondale looks cool, looks a whole lot like a lot of other EMTB's really.
It weighs 45 lbs.....with a 600 WH battery.......put in a real battery obviously it weighs more.
Even though they work great, online whiners will bitch about the shimano motor.
Mine works just fine.
KUDOS for Cannondale for normal cable routing!
Pulling cables through bearings is a CRIME and should be banned!
Full Power...? My 54 lb eBike has 160Nm of power, 160mm Fork but I also have 1100 Wh battery so I can go anywhere I want and do it for a while....$12,.000....that's still Covid Pricing...you can get a MX motorcycle for that kind of Scratch.......
5000 quid for a mountain bike that’s a ton of money, I was thinking maybe 2000 pounds surely you should be able to buy something decent, or am I out of touch here .
A Cannondale send me a black and gold
I ride it around New York City in Central Park all day long sponsor up
Add 120 WH to the battery, a fox 38 180mm, DD Maxxis Assegai, Alloy rims, a coil damper , 185mm seat hight adjustment, and you're back to 24kg.... it's not an innovation
Why not a removable battery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the compromise companies make to save weight in the frame to make the bike light as possible they use the battery to bolster up the stiffness of the down tube if you rode this bike without the battery it would likely snap
I tend to agree with Steve with regard to the [current] focus on lighter-weight... for me, the key elements of an eMTB need to be range and reliability.
It's easy enough for manufacturers to save weight by putting a smaller battery in a bike, but what we really need is full-power bike with an easy option to extend the range as required - ie. why don't full-power bikes come with the option of plugging in a range extender like the mid-power bikes do?
And for me, weight matters because loading a heavy bike is becoming more difficult for me. As I age range becomes less important and weight more important. Oh, to be young again!
I had 50p watt battery bike for 6 years. Most I used was 50% of the battery on a 60km ride. My style is Enduro and trail. Maybe you should start using the eco modes and get fitter or just get a motorcycle mate. Not trying to offend by the way. It just surprises me that that is your opinion
Let me guess @@danytheunicorn95 - you live in the UK right? In this part of California you typically have a 2000+ft climb in around 3 miles, and it's repeating those prolonged climbs which eat into your battery range, regardless of the mode you're in.
Interesting.... motor has the same weight, battery is maybe just 1kg lighter? So the rest of components are another 2kg lighter? Cannondale has issues with carbon durability for last 20 years... I guess it'll be another fragile frame, not built for purpose ....
Steve 19.5 is a lightweight E bike but NOT a light weight BIKE!! Surely it’s heavy enough to be planted on any descent . Do you really need a heavier bike ? Get every Ebike to 20 kg max with a full power adjustable motor 45 nm in eco upto 85 nm in full power .
Call me a suspicious nurk if you will, but I can't see why a bike with a stand but no pedals qualifies for inclusion in the vault, let alone a Super Nice.....also....the focus and lighting is odd
Anything over 15kg's is not a light bike,E-Bike or not....Ha!
I see shitmano motor and carbon frame, I skip
The SL2 colours are 🤮
Bike looks great but Shimano motor is a disappointment, lack of power ,no spare parts ,poor customer service