Shimano Responds.... and it's not a good look for them.
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- čas přidán 16. 11. 2023
- Two weeks after publishing the ONLY review seen to date of the updated Shimano R8100-P (& R9200-P) firmware 4.2.0, I'm struggling to get a resolution from Shimano Australia regarding the issues I encountered. The data presented clearly indicated there's a problem with the power meter I've purchased. Their initial reply was very generic and indicated they had not reviewed the issues in any way. Here's a breakdown of their reply and how it may or may not apply the testing I perform.
SUBSCRIBE to GPLama CZcams Channel ➡️ bit.ly/3aUph9W ⬅️
Links:
GPLama Review of Firmware 4.2.0 for the R8100-P Power Meter: • Another Epic FAIL // S...
Firmware Update to Improve the Power Meter Accuracy (Shimano Official): bit.ly/49lRWRX
GPLama Shimano R9200-P Review: • Shimano Dura-Ace R9200...
GPLama Stages R9200 Dual Review: • Stages Dura-Ace R9200 ...
GPLama Stages R8100 Dual Review: • Stages Ultegra R8100 D...
Keith Wakeham Shimano Meter Analysis Video: • Biggest industry blund...
GPLama Shimano Power Meter Report (2019): bit.ly/3Ct5sS4
Shimano R8100-P Technical Specifications:
● Shimano Hollowtech II Crankset.
● Type: Dual Sided Meter.
● Power Accuracy ±2.0%
● ANT+ [Bicycle Power]: Power, Cadence, Left/Right Power Balance, Torque Effectiveness, Pedal Smoothness, Battery Level.
● Bluetooth ® LE [Cycling Power]: Power, Cadence, Left/Right Power Balance, Battery Level.
● ANT+ / Bluetooth ® LE [Force Vector]: Power, Cadence, Left/Right Power Balance, Pedalling Efficiency, Force vector, Battery level. *Only on supported head units.
● Active Temperature Compensation.
● Battery: Internal / Rechargeable / 300h+ runtime.
● USB charging (Same charge cable as 12spd Di2)
● Weight: 172.5mm 790g (Measured in the Lama Lab)
● E-Tube iOS & Android™ Management App / Configuration / Firmware Updates.
● Other: Status LED. Control Button (Status/Zero Offset).
#Cycling #Shimano #PowerMeter
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gplama.com - Sport
I think Shimano's mechanical engineering ie their geometry, fits etc is good. Their materials knowledge of raw metal is good however their use of glued joints has proven to be suspect.
On the electronics front, a lot of Di2 is Bosch derived (CAN BUS) and I think the power meters were technology that was bought from purchases so it's not Shimano from day 1. In any case their customer image has taken a battering over the past few months and this is no exception.
Was it you or PT that suspected that they have problems with right side PM due to their crank design? The bonded crank and complicated geometry doesn't allow for a good strain gauge placement and proper calculations of strain.
@@nctrnsI think the unsymmetrical design and manufacturing methods (glued joints) are inherently a bad match for a strain gauge based dual sided measurement. There's a reason why most other manufacturers use either a single piece cranks and/or different measurement setup like spider based ones.
@@nctrns Stages and 4iii seem to be doing a solid job of making it work.
If my memory is correct, Shimano purchased Pioneer’s power meter design. Why they didn’t update an existing technology that they own is beyond me, especially when their drive side power meters have had issues for at least a couple generations.
Di2 does use CAN and Bosch did invent it but it’s long been made a multi-industry standard. Cars, planes, even satellites use it. That’s not an indication of Shimano and Bosch working together.
I wonder if the customer rep knew who they were dealing with?! 😂
As I mentioned in the video, I didn't expect any special treatment based on having a CZcams channel/etc. I did expect a better reply (or at least a prompt follow-up) given the level of detail I provided in a 23 minute video on their product.
My guess it was an automated first message@@gplama
What else would you expect given Shimano’s decision to leave faulty and dangerous cranks in use all over the world, waiting for lots of them to go out of use before being forced to do a recall
Faulty and dangerous I dunno about that
You might be more convinced if yours failed in the way that so many others have.
I admit my confidence in Shimano has taken a hit, first with the Ultegra crank arm recall, then these power meter issues. It's not that there's a problem, it's the initial denial of a problem that's most concerning.
They've been resting on their laurels of being effectively a monopoly of groupsets for many years. This is no more, and people are starting to make them accountable.
I have been a Shimano fan for a long time, but after hearing people are getting hurt with their ultegra crank falling a part and only replacing them if they look like they are about to fail, it's getting me to think about switching to Sram
This company has gone from one held in the highest regard to a joke in the space of a few years. Between this and non-recall crank recall, honesty is something they clearly don't care about. What happened?
Shimano has always been like this ... just in the past their products were good enough for people to mostly overlook their crappy and horribly anti-competitive attitude.
Wandering bite point brakes.
Shimano is decently good at solid mechanics.
Good at material and processes made in-house.
Not good at applications with out-sourced materials, eg. glue.
Not good at determining compounded/layered material characteristics, eg. brake disc.
And, poor at CRM.
BRAVO SHANE! Thanks for holding Shimano to account. Given recent events, they need to be held to account.
They got 2.8 million problems called crankset they’re falling apart left and right. Worrying about some thing that they’ve never sold in volume for them is just a rounding error at this point.
👌🏼💯
As a matter of fact, most dealers in UK/Europe are reporting very few cranksets failing inspection and lot of inspections happening with dealers being paid to conduct these.
@@dominicbrittmate the issue is that those crankset will fail with time, and there is a significant enough percentage of failure that they hid and have finally been forced to do a recall on. And they don't even have the decency to do a full recall.
Damn ! I have been a Shimano only user for 25 yrs now . But geez! They are making it hard to stay faithful. I have two dura ace cranks both in the recall group. And seeing your problems with them is not a good look . THANKS SHIMANO!
Straight to the point no bullshit review and feedback! GOOD JOB! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻💯🔥
Well, at least "you are waiting for the answer". When I raised the ticket to Wahoo , ticket was closed after few days with reason "no activity from user". Although the ball was on their side to proceed and they had explicitly told me to stand by as they were checking issue with their R&D (yeah, right). You gotta love this corpo BS :D
Keep grilling them and I keep fingers crossed for you to get proper service. If you can't, no one can :)
Sorry you are having a bad experience with Wahoo.I contacted them about an out of warranty head unit that had very poor battery life. After a few back and forth emails they sent a new unit.
@richbob594 I'm glad to hear that. I don't know what is the reason for corpo to go into passive aggressive defense mode but as we can see with Shane's case here, this happens sometimes. I can only guess that they do that if the problem is not know/explicit. My case was some software error in ROAM which I, as A person with over 20y exp in software design was super happy to help to solve (for mutual benefit) but Wahoo decided to take an "easy way" - close the ticket and pretend the problem never existed.
I use power zones for my training but this is a new zone to me. Now known as the "dog with a bone zone" ! 😂 Good for you Shane, keep on it mate👍👊
I bet Favero, Garmin, Stages and 4iiii are having a great laugh with this!!😂
And Shimano just needs to look at where 4iii puta the strain gauge and do the same... Yet refuse to do so.
You just got the "normal human" customer service quality of most companies. But glad you made the video! Someone has to put it out there
The end result is the same as with previous iterations then, DON'T buy a Shimano power meter. Thanks for the video.
I recently ordered the Ultegra Di2 groupset and was debating to get the power meter upgrade for a discount. Luckily watching your videos helped me avoid a massive headache.
Same old story: cranks are safe and powermeters are effective... according to the manufacturers
Trust $himanos $cience
I thought your last video might be the end of this story, but I appreciate you putting in a ticket and sharing it with us.
If Shimano doesn't have the in-house engineers/capability to improve their power meters, I wonder why they wouldn't purchase a company who can do it? Surely they have the ability to make an acquisition to solve the problem and restore confidence in their brand.
Didnt they start out thier in-house powermeter journey by purchasing Pioneer back in 2020? Hindsight is 20-20 but it doesnt seem like a great investment 🤦♂
Pioneer had issues with the right side too. It was one of the better ones, but still didn't perform when properly analysed/compared to other meters. There's a few Pioneer data sets over here for reference: gplama.com/2019/06/29/shimano-crankset-power-meters/
But this is simply weird. They could place the strain gauge where other successful power meters put it. They seem to simply refuse to do so.
Worse, they also refuse to test the system properly.
@@aszalai86 The joke ------------------------------------------>
Your head.
@@aszalai86And Pioneer power meters were garbage. Many problems, the major being water ingress. At least Shimano has eliminated that issue. The problem appears to be the bonding of the strain gauges to the crank itself. This can result in various issues with readings.
This is great tbh. Shimano is showing how they would mug off any customer.
Thank you for this work, and your persistence. I have been a contented Shimano user since the 70s, and I am still very satisfied with the Shimano stuff I use. I was lucky in avoiding the pasta Ultegra/ Dura-Ace cranks and I won't be getting a Shimano Power Meter!
you'd think with the backlash to their so called recall of broken cranks, they'd be more attentive to customer care
Optus
This issue with Shimano makes me happy I am on SRAM and was definitely a factor when I bought my bike a couple months back. The fact that Shimano can’t get this right is concerning
SRAM / Truvative have their own issues too.
Fantastic video! Straight to the point. Maybe one of these days a national news station will offer you a prime time news anchor position.
Well done Shane . Hopefully they listen and correct the issue.
Yep! This ☝ Amazed it hasn't been acknowledged before.
@@altern8tive also love what you did with "do not bond well" 😂
That response from Shimano in the opening is a total dodge. Hopefully some VP or director at Shimano sees video 🙂.
Thank you for all your work🙌. Clearly, Shimano has lost it completely.
Loved that kind of videos. It’s clearly visible you’re irate/agitated. Still professional though. I mean it’s not the another boring day in the office. You’re on the mission.
Cheers. As i said in the video, I want to them to get this right. I'm spending time on holding them to account - both with the product and customer service. The day they get things right, THAT is the story I'll tell.
@@gplama and this is what I’d bet my money on. Always
No surprise in no reply of substance as they can only dig a bigger hole. The data don’t lie. Well done you 👍🚴♂️
Keeping on fighting on this. This is so important given that some premium bikes with Shimano DI2 come equipped with their power meter. This raises price up. If the power meter is trash, I don't want to buy such a bike, and sometimes it is a shame, because the bike looks great. So, for me, they either have to fix this power meter, or companies should not sell their bikes with shimano power meter becasue they are making thier products less appealing.
This is very true, Tarmac comes with a choice of SRAM / Shimano and therefore either a Quarq or Shimano PM. I have 2 Quarq PMs already, so this is a significant factor in which groupset to go for.
Thank you for the update… or lack there of a good update. Sad to see cycling’s powerhouse manufacturer slacking to maintain high standards. 😢
Regarding the alignment of the cranks and rings: R8100 and R7100 never did. But R9200 does. My hypothesis is it is a cost cutting, they haven't made specific molds for the lesser groupsets, so they are all "Dura-Ace". To test my hypothesis is easy, I predict a 105 or Ultegra ring would fit better to Dura-Ace crank! Unfortunately previous generations were perfect... We were expecting more for their 100th year, not less.
Unfortunately this isn't a case 105 rings are very different, usually one type of material. Ultegra and DA are alloy and carbon fibre sandwich, but Dura Ace is physically shallower (if lay flat Ultegra arms are taller). But I agree there will be some cost cutting exercise. As with everything these days, shareholders dividends are the No.1 priority
Very informative. Good write up!
Straight to the ACCC I reckon. Be an interesting outcome.
Seems like right side strain based crank power meters have had accuracy problems more often than not, no matter what brand. Think I'll stick with the pedals.
Me to. Assioma Duo for me
You're trying to help them sort their problem. They should be *thanking you* for bringing this to their attention.
I love it when companies try to fob off GPLama!!
Exactly what I said in a previous Shimano power meter video, Shimano should leave power meter products to companies who knows how to build it. Shimano is probably full of engineers who can't admit that they are wrong, that hurt their ego. But like Shane said, their group sets are fine.
I suspect the engineers are well aware of the power meter problems, and the crank problems. Most engineers I know take pride in their work and want to fix problems, but it's the higher up business / product managers that make the decisions. I suspect a quick look in their bug management system would be a real eye-opener.
@@RossHetherington24 good point 👍
SO glad my Gen 1 stages is still working :)
Shane woke up and chose violence! Yes!
I chose CZcams revenue! (Honestly, I have to recoup the cost of this meter somehow... two videos on it and I'm not even 1/2 way there) 🤣
Well said Shane. Always impartial and direct.
This is a school-boy PR error from Shimano. Not to say that famous/infamous people like yourself should get preferential treatment but when someone has put in the effort that you have you would expect them to come back with something better than "Trust me bro" and then some weasel words in an attempt to placate you. It's doubly bizarre that they would send back such a low effort response given they should be in damage control mode because of the crank arm issue.
Thank you for holding them to account.
You're bashing your head against a brick wall dealing with Shimano in Australia - they do not employ engineers and are primarily focused on marketing.
Publishing the email correspondence online and get it in front of regional Shimano reps...I know this in practice may not be straightforward, but I'd be tempted to ask whoever you're talking to provide an escalation path...
Keep up the good work - excellent analysis as always!!
Local bike shops often don't have the necessary skills to escalate these issues OR don't want to upset the distributor... either way, bad for customers.
Yeah, my balls are in the wind on this being the only one who's reviewed this update. I'm getting the "shitlisted for life" vibe from them.... but... it's all of their own doing. On two fronts now. The day they make a meter that works and meets their own specification, that's what I review and report on. 100% within their control.
Good lord! What the hell is going on with Shimano these days? Their products used to be so good and it seemed the company was very well organized in the past. I really appreciate your thorough and honest documentation of this huge issue. Shimano really needs to wake up and quit playing games with their customers.
great video - thanks for sharing
thanks to you. i will never buy shimano power meter!
*Not yet anyway. One day they'll get it right.
@@gplama Let's hope so. I think Shimano shifts great and it looks nice. SRAM is not my thing.
Thanks for your work.
The cranks not lining up seems to be apparent on their 12s cranks. Seen it many times. Thought I installed them wrongly and opened up several brand new ones and saw the same gap
Gives me comfort for making the decision back in 2019 to buy my Giant Propel SL0 with a swapped-out non-PM crankset (price adjusted) and use my Favero A pedal PM instead...the Shimano PM was confirmed shit then and unfortunately it's still confirmed shit now.
This annoyingly seems to be the standard way of handling technical queries by most brands! Customer : "Hey I have a technical concern about your product that means I can't have faith in it, what can you do with it?" Bike brand : "I think the marketing department is the best place to handle that by copying & pasting a stock response!"
Thanks, Shimano
Well said!!!
Give ‘em the business Lama!
Well, exactly what I expected after reading your comments on escape collective‘s discord.
I would not expect anything else from them. They think they are too big to fail and control to much of the market. This shows in the current power meter and the bigger crank issues. We the passing customer are going to have to make them understand and go somewhere else!
Hi there, commenting here but not about the actual shimano power meter.
I recently realize that your power meter guide page on your website has not been updated for a while. It was a very handy solution to get summarized information about your work.
Is it still a thing ? Or am I being impatient ?
Nevertheless, I absolutly love your work.
Thanks a lot 🙌
Shonkwatts 🤣🤣 next time my mates beat me up the local climb might pull out the ol' shimanies comparisons to make myself feel better
I have stopped doing triathlon around 2020... -> 3 years later... shimano has the same problem they had in the past :D I hope there will be simialr change in my results when I come back to sport again :D
I imagine that gap in fitment would cause flex in cranks, which would in turn effect the power readings. Or am I talking out of my rear?
Love this........ I hope you weren't expecting an Christmas card ;)
I'd expect it to be delivered to the wrong address even if they did sent one. Accuracy isn't their strong suit.
This is why I decided to make the switch to Sram axs groupsets and their quarq power meters.
We need more videos like this for everything bike-related. Shimano might [eventually] listen to you and DCRainmaker, they’ll never listen to individual concerns. Shimano should be using your testing to improve their products instead of burying your research. They’re turning away free R&D!
I’d rather be making videos about awesome bike tech that improves the ride experience. But…. When things are sold that do the opposite, I’ll make videos on that too.
The words “guarantee” and “Shimano” don’t go together very well in my opinion, especially in light of the crankset debacle.
Keep fighting the good fight 👊
Thank goodness we have Shane doing the real work to expose this rubbish. My next groupset won’t be Shimano - they really could not give a stuff about the consumer. They join Optus and Qantas having no idea about customer focus and support. Disappointing.
I’ve just bought one of these meters because I rode on a sram axs spider which was fantastic, but decided to experience dura ace which I love.
Problem is I had assiomas but I thought they were poor accuracy wise…
Never had 50/50 or 49/51 like I did on my sram spider that coupled with the fact my feet were soo far apart it hurt my knees 😂 I looked for a crank set meter
I didn’t see this video until I was getting the same 53/47 showing on the dura ace power meter.
Please don’t let this go Shane you might make them fix it through firmware.
Atleast my feet aren’t too far apart
As a long time patron of Shimano North America, I'm dismayed you've had such poor customer service from Shimano Austrialia. I like to believe my blood runs "Shimano Blue"'....And hope other Shimano users feel the same way. I you're well with your right to loose a bit of faith in that particular product. More importantly, you're loosing faith in the company is much more disturbing!! STAY ON THEIR ASSES!! I hope Shimano - Down Under - finally rectifies the issue.
Cheers,
Pjw
It's a shame that they cannot get an accurate powermeter and try to get away with exuses. But one of their points in the reply are in fact right: As you mentioned watts are based on the SI system. So technically they should gauge their powermeters with a standard directly derived from a institute of metrology and standards (for example NIST in the US). Simply comparing to other powermeters and assuming that the others are right is not enough to make the 2% accuracy claim. Having that said: It is of course highly unplausible that all other powermeters are consistent but wrong and theirs is right. This is more an academic issue but each company has to gauge their powermeter to a metrology standard. Otherwise the errors would keep adding up.
You can calibrate Assiomas by using 1kg weights. Which should in theory make them a pretty good reference point. And if they match/are close to matching other power meters except Shimano then presumably the outlier is the issue, not the benchmark
Watching the fall of Shimano has been hard to watch. I never thought I would prefer SRAM but that is where I am at now.
Go for it Aussie!
This might be weird but, check your chainring and spider for the warranty issue. I've had a couple cranks come into my shop and it's the chainring with the issue (Not part of the warranty issue, but could help in your case)
9200/8100 are not part of the recent inspection/recall process.
@@gplamajust because they aren't part of the recall doesn't mean they aren't susceptible to the same kind of issue in the long run. Shimano didn't change the design of the crank, they changed the bonding agent. And it's the design of the crank that is the culprit. Stronger bonding agent might just delay the issue not prevent it. We'll see in 10 years.
Firmware “4:20”
I’ll take it!
The second bullet actually justifies your complaint. Firmware was updated, and that changed the way power was computed. Thus, they are admitting that 4.2.0 could (does?) read different than the reference.
3:22 always blame the end user, you're simply not using it correctly Lama 🙂.
It's a pizza cutter isn't it? 🤣
@@gplama Hawaiian pizza lunch on Lama 🙂.
Thinking about purchased a year old bike with this PM on. Are they are misreading in this way? Is there a potentially workaround by just using as a left side only pm in terms of the output reading in the head unit?
Shimano don't offer a single sided option (or ability to split the meter into a left/right only mode). Stages, 4iiii, and even Pioneer do.
"We guarantee that our power meter will be 0.00005 % accurate ,or better, when stored in its box, on a shop shelf". 🤣
It is very important what you are doing here and showing what a shi* show Shimano is!
Cheers. And when they get it right, I'll review that with the same level of detail and energy. 👌🏼
Just saying, is there a more consistent method to inspect and compare Powermeters across?
Like, hanging a standard weight (eg. 30kg?) at the pedal, while giving the cadence sensor repeating electromagnetic triggerings?
And do the same across all powermeters in comparison?
Static weight testing is possible with some meters, not all. It'll give a good indication if a meter is within spec for a single point of reference. Not possible with the Shimano meter that I'm aware of.
Favero Electronics laughing in the corner in Italian
the problem is since frames are coming with shimano BBs again and presfit got out of style, there is less choice. I NEVER used Shimano cranks before but now have to, as my brand has decided to go with threaded shimano style BBs instead…. by the way i bought xcadey now and hope its better the the shimano crap. Thanks
Well said👍👍👍👍🤷🏼♂️
And then we have their crankshaft recall….
I for one would not buy another piece of Shimano stuff until they get their acts together. Seems it's unlikely to happen anytime soon.
Their groups are great. I have 2x road Di2, XTR, and GRX. And will update to GRX 12spd when the Di2 version is released. It’s just their meter that is a potato.
Shane I saw that there is a THM clavicula with a power meter, any chance it will get reviewed? JK, It’s only 2500€ shipping not included 🤣🤣🤣. More than my frameset cost haha, but I’d be curious to know. It lists what app it uses, so maybe a clue to who’s it is.
From their perspective they can't necessarily trust your claims. Seriously, if you are taken in queue as any other customer how are they to really know you have any clue? And even if you sent in your results and methodology the first tier service isn't going to spend any time on it and just give the answers they find in their run books. But once you ask for escalation to a higher tier support you should get some response sooner than 5 business days...even if it's not a response you prefer. Don't confuse me with someone happy about it but rather understaning how tiered support works as well as how little the general user base if tech products really understand. I can only imaginf how many bizarro and brain dead questions they get.
All valid points. I appreciate the comment. 👌🏼
I bought two Xcadey power cranksets for two bikes and would still have change for one faulty Shimano power meter. While Shimano drags their heels relying on their brand to carry them, that brand is simultaneously being trashed and market share is slipping further and further away.
My new bike arrived yesterday with a Dura Ace 9200P powermeter. I updated the firmware, that's when I faced this issue. I didn't even use a meter. what do you suggest Should I sell it? Complaint?
This is exactly why Stryd has strongly gone away for "watts" for running and basically have "Stryd Watts"
I saw some of your videos as I'm looking for a power meter. I have a Shimano Ultegra Di2 cassette and shifter. What do you recommend to me. Thanks
Not this one.
I too am a Shimano adherent. I too stick with their group sets and consider them best of class.
That said, I still can't believe people (pro teams!) buy this unit or any Shimano power meter.
They cost more and deliver less. Even what they promise (but still fail to achieve - ie. +-2%) is less than industry standard for their price point - and below.
Favero! Favero! Favero!
This combined with Shimano's weak response to the crank problems have really put me off the brand. SRAM has its own problems but they're both more innovative and quicker to deal with issues. Shimano's response seems to be simply burying their head in the sand.
Shimano: talk to the hand 🤚
Yyy… Most popular answer from every powermeter manufacturer🤷♂️ Just buy assioma next time 😂
Maybe they're dealing with 2M delaminated crank arms. In 5 years when that backlog settles then they'll get around to fixing the PM problem
😅 Shane even spotted a copy-pasted typo from their website. 🔥
As I keep reporting, accuracy isn't their strong suit. (Although I'll be honest, I'm no wordsmith... My grasp of English is just one step above 'Bogan') 🤣
The only valid point they (Shimano) could make is that most of us don't have a true "Watt reference" to compare anything against - all we can do is compare different meters against each other. So yes, in the end - we generally can't analyze accuracy, because we don't have a way to produce a controlled, certified combination of torque and RPM. But it is valid to call out a meter that deviates from the values reported by other meters. Shimano is experiencing a crisis for other reasons, which is why they are dodging this issue.
Fair points. It’s surprising that Shimano Australia can’t at least attempt to resolve this with either a better explanation or straightforward replacement. They are nothing more than a warehouse and support here in Australia. Dealing with this issue is one of two reasons they have staff here.
Is this just an issue with this specific Shimano power meter or all Shimano power meters? How does SRAM compare?
I've tested/reviewed a number of SRAM/Quarq options. Same test protocol. All perform exceptionally well. One notable outlier was the Rival AXS single sided spindle needing a 6% scaling. There was a subsequent firmware that may have resolved that without the scaling.
Does any company have a working non spider based right side power meter? Maybe shimano needs to move to that direction but it would mean a total re-design of the cranksets which would cost a lot of money.
Stages. They placed the gauges on the outside edges of the right crank arm on the 9200/8100 Dual models and that seems to work. I've reviewed both on here in recent months.
let me guess: they responded with 5.74?
Haha! With a little more digging I think they are scaling only the right by 10-12%. I guess I’ll have time to do some deeper digging given they don’t want the meter returned.
Compare with their older power meter. Either one or the other can be accurate or both inaccurate :)
Shimano just fucked around and is about to find out.
Based on their reply (or at least what you showed of their reply - not sure if you edited to fit only the important bits into a video format), it sounds like the rep didn't even watch the video.
They probably had no idea what you were writing about and categorised your email as a complaint about power meter accuracy, so they responded as such with a standard reply and links to their website, which also explains why they didn't actually answer your specific questions.
It even reads a bit like a response fed by AI/ChatGPT...
Which means their customer service (and failure to follow-up) is another failure.