5 Creepy Ruby Franke and Lori Vallow Daybell Similarities
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 04. 2024
- If you’ve used Incognito mode in Google’s Chrome browser, find out if you have a claim in a few clicks by visiting www.incognitoclaims.com/sidebar
Extreme religious beliefs were at the center of criminal cases for Ruby Franke in Utah and Lori Vallow Daybell in Idaho. Vallow Daybell was convicted of murdering her two children, as well as her new husband’s first wife. Franke entered a guilty plea to multiple counts of aggravated child abuse. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber analyzes the similarities between the women’s backgrounds, beliefs, and crimes.
Subscribe to Law&Crime Network: bit.ly/LawAndCrimeNetwork
Listen to Law&Crime's Sidebar Podcast on Apple & Spotify:
Apple: apple.co/3wMgRgB
Spotify: spoti.fi/3wITe7b
Host:
Jesse Weber: / jessecordweber
LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:
Head of Social Media, CZcams - Bobby Szoke
Podcast Director - Sam Goldberg
Senior Director of Social Media - Vanessa Bein
Senior Digital Producer - Savannah Williamson
Video Editing - Michael Deininger
Guest Booking - Alyssa Fisher
#RubyFranke #LoriVallow #LawAndCrime
STAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:
Watch Law&Crime Network on CZcamsTV: bit.ly/3td2e3y
Where To Watch Law&Crime Network: bit.ly/3akxLK5
Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletter
Read Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: bit.ly/3td2Iqo
For Advertising Inquiries, Please Contact: sales@lawandcrime.com
For Licensing Inquiries, Please Contact: licensing@lawandcrime.com
LAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:
Instagram: / lawandcrime
Twitter: / lawcrimenetwork
Facebook: / lawandcrime
Twitch: / lawandcrimenetwork
TikTok: / lawandcrime
LAW&CRIME NETWORK PODCASTS: lawandcrime.com/podcasts/
SUBSCRIBE TO ALL OF LAW&CRIME NETWORK CZcams CHANNELS:
Main Channel: / @lawandcrime
Law&Crime Shorts: / @lawandcrimeshorts
Channel B: / @lawandcrimetrials
Channel C: / @lawandcrimebodycam - Zábava
If you’ve used Incognito mode in Google’s Chrome browser, find out if you have a claim in a few clicks by visiting www.incognitoclaims.com/sidebar
Ruby should appreciate her son’s bravery. HE SAVED HER from becoming a murderer
and with all her thank you's she never thanked R!
For sure. He really is a hero in all this. I hope it helps him and his siblings to be able to heal and have amazing lives.
For now, if Ruby gets out of prison in 5 years, be careful with that woman.
When she was arrested Ruby punished her son by telling the police that he s3xually abused his sisters and other children. That meant that he had to be separated from his siblings!
ill agree with that, for now. and I doubt shell see it that way either.
The father of Lori's children died trying to help the children, while the father of Ruby's children, knew about Jodi's demonic possessions that required exorcisms, yet left the children with Ruby and her .
Its possible that its more of him being manipulated by her than anything.
That bodycam footage of Charles Vallow is heart wrenching.
And now he is the one able to have parental control. The government gives living/blood parents so many chances. How do you think it works out most of the time? All so they don't become ward of the state which costs them money. Make that make sense!
it was Jodie that had demonic possessions not Ruby
@@Kristine_202 bodycam footage? where was that? didn't see that
Idc. Kevin was abusive along with his wife before Jodie ever came into the picture! He also is a POS who didn’t check on his kids in person for a year when he was a 20 min drive away the whole time. There is no excuse for him.
Agree. The content creators for this channel keep letting Kevin off the hook for some reason. He was present for all of the abuse during 8 passenger years and somehow the fellow who reports on this only ever mentions Ruby. He states that some people thought “her” punishments were too harsh on the 8 passenger channel. I saw a few of those videos way back at the beginning. I thought they were cold, cruel parents. BOTH OF THEM
Maybe they fear being sued by Kevin, he tried to get his own daughter arrested after all.
Correct
I mean that’s probably why the state hasn’t given custody-right? He doesn’t have custody of all four children if I am not mistaken. To me, that seems intentional.
Unfortunately, the stuff that happened before Jodi came along aren't technically illegal or considered abuse. Utah CPS has a disturbing history of letting down children/families, it goes beyond this case.
I call BS on their "Beliefs." They all wanted freedom to do their own thing, and the children were getting in the way.
Yes
And it was a cover story
Them sleeping together?
Riding the lion ?🦁
Gimme a break
@@lovepet4565they absolutely were sleeping together and doing meth when they’d lock themselves in the room for 5-6 hours at a time and then both started to have psychotic episodes (drug induced psychosis) according to kevin in another video.
@@midnightmak3up oh wow
I should have figured the meth thing out
Her looks changed so drastically
I believe that of Chad. But I do think Lori really truly believed it then and still does now. And I think it might be scarier that Jodi was able to just turn that off compared to Lori and her statement to the court at the end of her trial.
Au contraire, their beliefs are how they rationalized their insanity.
THE DAD 100% NEEDS INVESTIGATION TOO.. he was around for years of abuse before they divorced
Yes he let it happen !!!
All these weirdo religious zealots going to conferences. What are all the rest of the conference attendees up to? Someone should check on their kids.
Seriously agree!!
I live in Utah and I’ve never seen this type of extremism with any of the religious people I know or have seen, these women are simply insane and need serious consequences and help
@@Albey-go2km I have heard of him but from what I know (not much + a little google) he doesn't hold the same kind of extreme stuff we're talking about here, I could be mistaken though I don't know much about him.
4 years of sentence is a slap in the hand for this monsters.
Especially when it could have been so much worse. Ruby and Jodi shouldn’t have been charged with child neglect and abuse but attempted premeditated murder because that would have happened if Ruby had bought property in Arizona and as she said in her journal abandon them in the middle of the desert with no food or water to survive to cast evil out from them.
It’s four years until they’re eligible for parole, which might not be granted. I’m praying they don’t get parole until they are much closer to the 30 year mark. Or not at all
@@HeidiSue60 Exactly. We don't know exactly how much time they'll end up serving at this point.
Utah should change their laws to develop more concrete sentences for child crimes. 4 years is ridiculous.
Has the sentence been rendered yet
Should have known It would be you that noticed these two are clones. I accidentally said "Ruby Vallow" one day and startled myself.
I thought right from the start that they might have run in the same circle(s). Others have felt the same way as well. I hope they get to the others involved, too.
Several (ex)Mormon channels have commented on it, especially since the degree of abuse became known after R escaped.
I was just taking about the fact that I would bet that Lori & Mel and Ruby & Jodi attended the same womens retreat in idaho.... I've heard reference to it in both cases and it was the right time frame
Ruby was 3 days away from being charged with 2 counts of murder.
It stills weirds me out when I hear people say they believe Ruby was remorseful at her trial. Sure... she was remorseful that the world found out that she is a monster... but she holds no remorse for actually hurting her children. I have never seen or heard a shred of evidence to show true love or compassion for her children. She has always viewed them as her possessions only. And I've watched countless hours of footage of her. She may say she loves her family, but she actually loves being in control of her family. It's not the same thing Ruby. Possession doesn't equal love. And your children deserved to be really loved and cared for by their parents. You stole that from them, and Kevin enabled your behavior. I hope she rots in prison.
Her son Chad believes she is remorseful. Crazy.
So Kevin knew how deranged Jodi was yet choose to not see his children for over a year? He thinks he’s doing something here by talking about how Jodi was. He’s not. He showing us how neglectful of his children he was. He should have taken them away from those women.
I really think Jodi Hildebrant has some of the same friends as Chad and Lori. They could even know each other
They did. Chad and Jodi spoke at the same conferences, sometimes at the same presentation
It's a small circle of crazy religious people
So do we think that the police will start watching this group of radicals for signs of illegal activity???
@@hellomello258 thank you for verifying that for me. The jail phone calls screamed friends of the Chad and Lori to me.
I 100 percent believe this
I can’t get past Kevin’s reaction to hearing the physical condition of his children after being abused & hospitalized . I just can’t .
Omg my children are in critical condition in the hospital HOW’S MY WIFE?!?!?!? …??????? He should not be allowed to have those children back.
@@EE33339 agreed . When I watched that interview with Kevin , it was so obvious that these children had neither one of their parents supporting them
'Your children are in serious condition.' 'I love my wife.'
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 reminds me of my dad (my mom was a Ruby/Lori)…my child is in the hospital MY POOR WIFE!! 🙄 typical complicit absent father aka mormon brainwashing symptom 👍
Who is doing Ruby's hair in jail ?!
Since this case first came to light, I noticed many similarities between these two cases. It was shocking to see how similar they were. I think Ruby and Jodi deserve more years than what they got for abusing and torturing those kids. They deserve life in prison.
It might end up being life b
We don’t know what they got.
Lori didn't torture the kids for a long period of time which is scary because the kids didn't see it comming..they just believed mom loved them and one day out of the blue she killed them
Ruby did torture her kids longer. Her kids knew she was monster and had enough time to save themselves and idk which is worse
All these weirdos have influential positions in the community. Kevin needs to lose his professor job and spend some time in prison as well.
He doesn't work at BYU anymore.
Agree
Visions of Glory! That is the common thing. Jodi was friends with the guy Tom Harris. Chad met with him, and Lori was reading his book when she was served!
Visions of Glory… the root of that is THE MORMON CULT!!!!
I'm not reading that crap, you'll have to tell me about it.
How come they didn’t try to torture the evil out of Jodi? That’s what they did to those poor defenseless kids!
that is what I also wonder. And if Jodie was having these possession episodes why would she be left overnight alone with the kids??? So strange.
@@nicoleortiz9884 It means Ruby didn't believe her children were possessed. She was having fun inflicting pain on them and experimenting with different torture methods on her kids. Jodi did volunteer to assist her at times though.
Yes, there seems to be an “LDS” connexion. Parole board may be loaded with LDS people in Utah. Why is there no looking into those groups out there?
The mainstream church excommunicates these people, which conveniently absolves the church from further responsibility. There's no reason to investigate.
Definitely
He's playing it down
But to me its a made up religion
Because the people in charge there are also Mormon.
exactly, their cult is at the center of it all
@@lovepet4565all religions are made up.
20:06 the CHURCH exalted Jodi & placed many, many church members under her care. Families, individuals, children…the church employed her on a variety of levels over the years. She was not leading a double life. She was attending the same church meetings as anyone else in that church. This church is dangerous…this church did this to these individuals, promoted their thinking, exalted their efforts, kept their livelihood intact, their reputations highlighted…they facilitated all of this and nothing they believed was created by anyone else.
Yes this needs saying....
As LDS member, that makes me sad, and I only hope those leaders realize what they were wrong and not make that mistake again.
Yes!!!
exactly. jodi is on the record meeting with top church leaders and her wealth comes from counseling referrals from church bishops. the LDS church is not innocent here.
Did anyone from the church see the condition of the children?
It was a matter of time. Those kids were saved from a terrible fate six feet under.
I’ll always believe that was the plan, and why they were planning to move to the AZ desert. (Allegedly!)
Saying that these were extreme fringe beliefs really ignores how intertwined the Mormon beliefs are in their stories. Be honest and hold the church more responsible. LDS beliefs sure do produce a lot of cults for not being recognized as a cult.
Exactly! If they are fringe beliefs, then why was Jodi's counseling recommended by people in the church?
Jodi was supported and blessed by her bishops in the LDS church.
Great point, id like to give my 2 cents if that’s alright.
Basically I really doubt that her bishops and leaders understood the extremism she believed in. At least in my experience the church does not praise or allow this sort of crazy idea at all. There are a few stories of people getting excommunicated because of crazy extremist beliefs like this. If her leaders were aware it definitely points towards a larger problem. (And there are lots of issues in the church, this one is not a common issue as far as I’m aware)
Exactly. I'm so sick of hearing ppl give them a pass. It's weird all the way around, ask anyone who escaped.
Exactly. Even the mainstream "church" has really weird beliefs. LDS is responsible for turning these people crazy.
My mom suffered schizophrenia and she would talk to or about religious figures that would just pop up in her mind. When I was little, she occasionally was physically violent towards me. Fortunately that disapated as I got older. With Kevin talking about how Jodi was seeing shadowy figures, sounds like she's the one who has mental issues like schizophrenia. 14:48
That was acting to scare ruby
I think Jodi is a master manipulator and was creating that as a storyline to tell Ruby knowing she would believe it. Jodi is just like Chad Daybell to me.
Or Jodi just made it all up because she wanted to sleep with Ruby.
Pretty sure Jody was the one that was possessed by a demon and the other woman because she didn't protect her mind and her family allowed it into her household him because the man wasn't really wearing the pants and she tried to run the show she fell victim to be manipulated I just believe ya people need to guard their minds hearts and their families..
. We not wrestle against flesh and blood but principalities in high places
@@AA-ws5xk Bingo, that is 100% correct.
Not only is there Laurie and Ruby, you've got Warren Jeff's and that group.
Are Warren and Jeff the same person or is it a Warren and a Jeff? And if you dont mind enlightening me on what happened? I would like to look into them too but I havent heard of them
@@jaidenmarie4785 it is one man named Warren Jeff and he is the leader of FLDS not LDS, they are very different while also the same.
how so? Warren is from FLDS and Laurie and Ruby are LDS, they are not the same
There are mothers who have left his group that are trying to find their children and allegedly the FLDS group can't account for several children. It's disturbing.
@nicoleortiz9884 except they both end up in fringe groups that break from the main church. Ruby & Jodi would have both been excommunicated much sooner if church leaders of the main LDS church had known how far off their beliefs and practices had gone. It's enough similarity.
Don't forget that Jodi had the backing of her LDS bishops, right up to the hilt.
In Ruby's jailhouse calls she is heard saying to get out this she needs to appear remorseful. I've been wondering if the tears and shaking voice in her sentencing speech are just for show.🤨
Totally performing for the cameras. I have to ff thru her performance, she makes me sick to my stomach.
Of course they were.
No question.
Thankfully Ruby's strong and amazing son managed to get help for him and his siblings before these cases were exactly alike.
Ive been thinking about the similarities of these two women for awhile, too.
Same!
one big connection between both the cases has to be the book Visions of Glory by Mormon author Thom Harrison, in which he claimed he had near death experiences where he saw the true nature of people, and claimed that he could see demons entering bodies of people when they were engaged in sin. He also claimed that furniture in a room was sentient and could tell of the sins of its occupants. Ruby and Jodi, as well as Chad and Lori, were fans of this book and its claims.
The Mormon Stories podcast did an excellent two-part episode about Harrison's book and its influence on the fringe belief side of the Mormon world, it's worth checking out.
💯
You know what still breaks my heart thinking about it? The boy actually thought he was going to prison
How do you know what he was thinking?
They should have looked in the mirror. The evil is them. Not those sweet kids.
When you put this video next to "The Program" from Netfix... Utah is suuurrrree wild... 🤔
It seems these are people who want to feel important, in control & have financial gain. Since they have nothing else to offer humanity, they make up religious crap to convince themselves they're special.
Ruby was abusing her children WITH her husband wayyyy before Jodi was in the picture
"Lori and a few of her friends" No, YOU Melanie! You were doing it too!
I didn't know she tried to have her husband killed as well
thank you for catching that! i'm guessing the same weakness that led her to empower this cabal is the same weakness that makes her unable to admit total accountability here.... 🤮i have no patience or respect for any human that just gives up the power of their mind, especially for some religious arrogance that makes them feel superior to other humans. they're all sheep and they're the ones who enable the leaders to commit real damage (Nazis, Aum Shinriko, etc.)
@@mrwilliamwonderNo, that was Melani the niece. Confusing, I know.
“Kevin is actively trying and fighting to get them back.” Okay???! He could’ve been “trying and fighting” for them while they were actively being abused only 20 minutes away from his new house. (Not to mention this was happening while they were in his care, too.) This man is a POS 🤡
I have thought about this since the Ruby Franke arrest came out😢
That thumbnail is crazy!!! They look so similar when put side by side like that! Wow 😮
IKR scaryy
Was thinking the same, they all lookalike!!!
A lot of Mormons look the same, skin color, eye color
20:20. Husbands who refused to protect and children who need…. abused. This is exactly what Ruby said in court. No one on the internet is talking about this!!
Yeah, I picked up on that too. That was absolutely chilling. This woman needs to not be around children a day in her life at the least, and probably heavily monitored the rest of her life as well. She'll go back to her beliefs as soon as she thinks it's safe to do so.
○❤○ Does Kevin still work at the University of Utah??
I've wondered ever since I heard that, did I hear it wrong, or miss a word in there. But u heard what I heard it seems 🤔
@@skyeblue5669apparently not
Jodi Hildebrand is the Chad Daybell in her relationship with Ruby!
Chad AND Ruby lived in Springville. It’s in Utah county and it’s literally the weirdest place I have ever lived! Everyone is practically the same! Even the way they speak…clones
wild!
I worked for a firm based in Springville, my location was on the East Coast. My position required me to be in frequent contact with staff from Springville. I was struck by how the women all sounded the same, it was an accent/ inflected speech I’d never heard. I told my friends at dinner one night, they asked me what it sounded like. So I did a passable imitation, I think 😉
@@yankeecitygirlit’s true huh? The breathy way of speaking the pronunciation it’s eerie
Stepford wives come to real life! That is spooky
@@snapmalloy5556 And it's real!
These were not radical off-shoot beliefs! They are rooted in mainstream Mormonism. There’s a video about that on Mormon Stories Podcast CZcams channel. Creepy
You are absolutely correct! People talk about these people leaving the church to join or start a cult… THEY WERE IN A CULT ALREADY. The Mormon church is nothing but a CULT!!!
They are both evil monsters.
Lori's statement in court...that's just "normal" Mormon doctrine. It's been stated dozens upon dozens of times by different people on Mormon Stories Podcast.
Joined a cult? I would consider the Mormon church just that
Both Mormons.
They quickly flipped the script the moment they were the ones in trouble. There is no remorse but an attempt to save their own skin.
I am now at the point where if someone is described to me as a "devout Christian" it's a huge red flag.
Ok that thumbnail photo was creepier than i would have expected 😂
I have all along noted the similarities of these two women. They both belong to a religion with a rigid doctrine that favors blind adherence over thoughtful examination.
They were in cults! Of course there are similarities
5:44 That’s why it’s important The Mormon Church release a statement condemning their behavior and distancing themselves from the event.
if they do that, they’d be denouncing most of their own members’ beliefs and behaviors. a statements never happening. i would bet on it.
Chad Daybell is kicking himself for not hooking up with Ruby first!
But Ruby doesn’t like “the storm”
I hate myself for laughing at that. 😞
@@K-Sarah-K-Sarah Chad could've got everything he wanted and not had to deal with all those murders. Now check this out, Chad hires Jodie to drive him out of the house and then Tammy is in bed with Jodi and Chad is free to do as he pleases.
@@mrwilliamwonder I LOVE THAT. Plus the Daybells don’t have minor children for Jodi to torture.
The book- Visions and Glory- the number 1 book in Utah last year. If you look at the time Lori was served the summons by the pool in Hawaii you will see Lori was reading it. Jodi Hildabrant was also involved with the author of the book. There is your connection.
Agreed!
Just want to appreciate that thumbnail graphic for a moment. It's perfect- and really freakin' scary. Well done, designer!
It would be different if Kevin left without knowing of the abuse. But he knew and chose to leave without his children, knowing what was happening.
How could the LDS church not have known when Chad Daybell was very public about his beliefs & did book tours. PLUS How could the church not have known when referrals were made to Jodi ??
The church knew everything. They chose to look the other way.
@judygilliespie3242 I think a lot of Mormons are just naive and trusting.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. These kids are so lucky to be alive.
When you're a sector of society that's gotten away with heinous crimes for centuries..
Thank you for clarifying that these sick people did NOT practice the LDS religion, that they were fanatic offshoots and cults of their own making. Great journalism to clarify the difference. I've always loved this channel, and this makes me appreciate you all the more!
I’ve been deep diving into a lot of the communities surrounding LDS. The crossover with some of the connections between these two it’s pretty shocking stuff.😮
10:58 “ and that was that, they started sleeping in the same bed “
There are major similarities.Right down to the jail house ,spit spiral ,hairdo.
Had R not escaped?It would be even more similar.
There was another woman who kidnapped her nephew who was 17 year's old. She was taking him to Canada. She's Mormon from Arizona. She said her nephew is to lead the people I'm not sure
He was her son.
Please tell me someone else thinks Jodie got that inspiration for her lion vision where she rode on a lion and learned who she was from Narnia 🤣🤣
I've been saying this for months.. I keep saying they're like the same person and imagine if they were together
Lori is still delusional- constantly smirking is horrific
Thanks Jessie for your take on things...
Keep on top of this story please I need to know as public do is judge Mormon?
I'm pretty positive that the lion named Charles that Ruby rode in her dream was my schizophrenic brother, Charles 😂 😅
Jodi rode the lion.
Of course it's ideology and religous preoccupation
Let's hope the right cellmates find out what they did 🎉
Finally, the episode I’ve been waiting for.
I’m so glad more people are catching on to how very very similar these two women AND their ideologies are. I do not believe it’s a coincidence that they were both LDS before going more extreme.. This holier than thou attitude is dangerous!
I also completely believe that one of the Franke children were weeks or months away from certain death. The more you learn about what Hildebrant and Franke did and believed, it is not a stretch to imagine a child would have died sooner rather than later
I have noticed all the girls in high school who were known to put out, now have religion front and center on their Facebooks. What are they trying to tell me? 😂
Kevin Frankie left his kids with these 2 weird delusional women? It was pretty obvious to me, by the way they leant towards each other, that they were in a relationship. Now we heat they were sleeping together, not surprising.
It was a close call. Had RF not managed to escape, we would witness another deranged case as seen in Vallow's.
Isn’t Kouri Richins also a Mormon ?
This is the most balanced comprehensive look at both cases I have seen
LDS is LDS. Do the research please.
They're even physically similar
In part where Ruby is in a closet, after a shower. She's saying her daughter is sick and needs to go to the hospital. but instead Ruby took a shower and she's cleaning the bathroom, and videotaping herself talking about how she's doing that, and waiting and making them wait to go to the hospital!
I saw a video where a severely sick Russel was made to lie to lie on the bathroom floor instead of a bed because Rubi didn't want to clean the bed when he vomited.
I thought of Lori immediately when I heard the Ruby story!! The stories are nearly identical.
It's so bizarre to hear Melanie speak in court about these wacky things that they believed in.
Thank you for finally pointing this out. I've been saying this since day 1.
As someone who followed both cases in real time, I was thinking about the two the whole time. My wife grew up Mormon and her dad took their doors off and all kinds of stuff.
Boy, the 2 pictures put together makes the two psychos look very similar
What would the sentence be if these women were abusing adults? Are they getting a break because they were abusing children, and in Ruby's case, her own children? They should both serve the max.
Jodi and Chad even look alike
17:55 all that language, all the descriptions she uses…direct from the church.
Love the "these cults are real and those are not" rationale.
Lori Daybed Vallow is literally gone from this world. It's like she has dementia.
She has some really strange personality disorder. She is truly what is called whacko. Then again so is Ruby.
Demontia
Demonically possessed
She is clearly unwell mentally.
It is delusional to believe Jodi never knew Chad. They both frequented BYU, and both read the same authors. I’m sure Jodi probably owns at least one Chad Daybell book..
I grew up in this cult. These crazies sound exactly like my mom and sister. Sadly there are millions more who believe this nonsense.
❤
I'm sorry you experienced that. I will pray that you will find peace.
You'd think Jodi would be doing those wall-sits, carrying boxes, standing outside and only coming in for bathroom/shower, sleep outside, etc right along with those kids considering she was frequently possed. Nah instead she got people fawning over her and cuddles.
Someone who is an actual Therapist should review the "training" for the "mental fitness trainers" and begin to figure out what certifications need to be reexamined. If this abuser was teaching people to abuse, their are probably people being harmed right now, in the name of "mental fitness".
Don't forget if these kids weren't rescued rubys extreme abuse would have lead to murder.
Absolutely
Ive been waiting for this video…..
Kevin angers me the most. Instead of owning up to his neglect and being helpful as possible to the cops for his kids’ sake, he pretends to be a victim like he had no idea. He’s just shifting blame to distract authorities and the public from his role in what happened to his kids. It seems to be working though as he hasn’t been charged with neglect and some even pity him!
And suing for money for personal damages. Ugh.
@@valentinat3250 Yes! As if he was the “damaged” one 😒
20:50 it was criminal activity that turned into paranoia that turned into even worse criminal activity. i’ve seen this before.