Argella Durrandon & The Dark Genesis Of House Baratheon
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2024
- House Baratheon is one of the youngest Houses in Westeros. Their seat, Storm's End, was once the holdfast of House Durrandon, but that all changed when the Targaryens invaded and Orys Baratheon forced Argella Durrandon to marry him. Who was Argella, and why does she still matter?
Content Of This Video:
00:00 The Last Storm Of House Durrandon
03:29 Who Was The Real Orys Baratheon?
08:12 Argella The Storm Queen
11:22 Stolen Birthrights
14:30 Conclusion
15:40 Outro - Zábava
House Baratheon has one of the hardest and coldest words of any house in the series ; "Ours is the Fury". Their sigil being that of a stag is also fitting, informs and symbolizes some the trials and tribulations the House has face throughout their history. The artwork of Argella is highly lovely. She is a very beautiful and savvy lady who I would love to learn more about.
Yeah "Ours is the Fury" is one of my faves, I love rageful house words a la House Baratheon or like House Hornwood's "Righteous in Wrath."
@@HillsAliveYT Yeah, House Hornwood words are very dope as well.
I always felt like Angela got her own revenge on the Targaryens via Robert’s Rebellion, which basically destroyed their house. Then I just figured she used the last three Baratheon men to destroy the house that parasitically fed off of her own.
I know it's just autocorrect but I'm loving Angela Durrandon so much.
If by the last 3 Baratheon men you mean Robert, Stannis and Renly then you're dead wrong there.
You are obviously not a mother because these men are *her* descendants, her blood and she'd always want the best for them.
Sure she might have resented Orys, but she would have cared for her children and their descendants.
This is something single, loveless, childless feminists will *never* get.
People, especially women who went through the pain of childbirth will *always* prefer to support their own blood over anyone else. Case in point Cersei and Catelyn
After all, Blood is thicker than water 😂
She'd have probably been proud of their accomplishments even if disapproving of some of their character flaws.
She would probably have been pissed at her descendants fall from power.
Family loyalty beats ideology everytime.
Well if stannis dies the baratheon line is dead sooo that didn't work out too well plus there are more targs than baratheons now. We have 2 baratheon vs 3 targs
Interesting points. Ever read Medea?
@@gerardjagrooNo need to make this about criticizing feminism. Unnecessary
I always thought that the "naked and chained princess" was the kind of thing singers make up
Same, sometimes i wonder if there is a level of exaggeration and male gaze from bards and fools. Whose to say such a bias can even effect the maesters?
Yeah stripping the new queen whose house you swore to was real overkill but idk
@@Janary08Sometimes the threat of a dragon will make people do thst to save their skins.
Man, it really sucks that the Targaryeans are actually some of the least interesting noble families around which this entire story is built.
Great video.
LOL obviously you're preaching to the choir here.
Argella's spirit is playing chess while the rest are playing checkers.
I'd be really interested in hearing your takes on House Tyrell's family history, as they also have a very interesting inception and rise to power.
Probably because Orys Baratheon knew it would be a partnership that would be used to understand them they keep the colors, trappings, and sigils. In short, he needed her legitimacy and cooperation to rule his new lands. "New boss same as the old boss" to quell any internal rebellions.
He was tortured and mutilated by the enemy and that changed him.
LOL totes, and it was even more convenient because he didn’t have any of those things anyway.
@@HillsAliveYTand argella got to effectively keep her castle , not be burnt alive like harren, and secure her men had an easy accomodation. besides that sort of her being delivered to him seems like a scheme. we don't know what happened that night. perhaps they talked and kinda set up some sort of deal. ( seems more likely then her men betraying her out of nowhere)
@@Blood_Video_company like Cleopatra in the rug 😅
@@chrissiek8706 yes
With all the amazing _ASOAIF_ theories and analyses that have been shared over the decades, I'm continually marvelled at the new insights you're able to pull out. This is absolutely brilliant! The dots you connect completely blew my mind. You deserve more recognition. As far as I'm concerned, you should be as big as Alt-Shift X.
Same!! For ASOIAF content, I go to Alt Shift X or her. Hill's Alive really offers a beautiful new perspective on the metatext of the books that is often overlooked!
@@justink5000Indeed she does. I just want to clarify that when I compared her to Alt Shift X, I was referring to the CZcams space. I think she is one of the best ASOIAF commentators overall, but she definitely deserves more views on the platform she is on, which is CZcams. All this is to say, CZcams doesn't have a monopoly on great _ASOIAF_ commentary. There are fantastic podcasts like Not A Cast Podcast, and Radio Westeros, which is primarily a podcast even though they occasionally post on CZcams. 95% of the theories Alt Shift X talks about are from prominent _ASOIAF_ commentators in the writing and podcast space, and he always credits them. And there are other wonderful small CZcams commentators like Quinn (not Quinn's Ideas, who is bigger but also great).
Thanks! 💖 Alt Shift X is awesome but good god I don't think I have it in me to ever do an hour plus long video.
@@HillsAliveYTKeep up the good work! We love it!🥰
Bobby B got that get back though, house Baratheon ftw
Boar of House Hog had a thing or two to say about that.
@@HOTD108_ lol that was a self delete he was tired of Cersei the harpy screeching
I find Orys to be a very fascinating character. He seems to be the embodiment of imposter syndrome.
An illegitimate son of a Targaryen lord, never truly in the fold of the other Targaryen siblings, a right hand of Aegon, used as his sword. Then he gets used as a political pawn to start the invasion, because why on the sevens earth would Argilac accept Orys as he marriage option.
Then he gets grandfathered in to a land of hardened men and women, a castle with more history than bricks and he has to spend his life with a very, *very* angry Argella. He follows the orders of his brother and gets captured, held for years and then mutilated.
Compared to Rhaenys, who gets killed and avenged seven fold, he sort of gets put in the lurch for longer and then the war ends. Good job lads, go home. (If the theory about Rhaenys being tortured under hellholt is true then that makes it even worse, as Aegons willing to accept defeat for Rhaenys and not for Orys.
I think a possible arc of his story could be him finding belonging in his new home, and new family, new people, compared to the old one that sent him into the Dornish mountains.
It would be great to speculate on what would happen if Alicent had used her 4 children for advantageous marriage alliances, such as:
1)Aegon II marries Cassandra Baratheon.
2)Helaena Targaryen marries Lord Tyrell.
3)Aemond marries Aliandra Martell.
4)Daeron the Bold marries Betha Hightower.
Such marriages would have put all of southern Westeros at the disposal of Aegon II and probably given him victory.
Omg yes!!
Lord Tyrell was a child Cregan Stark woud've made a better marriage, the Maertell marriage makes more sense but it's not guaranteed to happen, the Daeron marriage is worthless they have the HighTowers with them already.
@@CuntyMisanthrope It would be great.
Yeah, I feel like they were kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place because marrying siblings would have "legitimized" them more, plus you know, they would probably get more dragons in the long run, but politically it would have been very helpful to marry into powerful families.
@@Aaron_Guest I was referring to the father of that Lord Tyrell, I am referring to the father of Lord Lyonel Tyrell, not the child.
Hmm... to complete that Cersei parallel, Orys would have to NOT be the father of Argella's children, I suppose? That would be a fun theory. Not enough details in the text to provide any sort of support or refutation of it, though. Still, a fun theory.
OMG yes I would love the Baratheons never even being Baratheons even though there is zero evidence to support it.
Oml that would be brutal and epic revenge😂😂😂
Also the Seed is Strong so her stronger genes may have covered up her infidelity.
I will never forgive the targaryen conquerors for stealing Argella's right to be the first storm queen 😭
She was a Storm Queen even if they stole her crown!
@@HillsAliveYTI'm soooo glad someone finally put up fan art of queen Argella with the deep blue eyes and coal black hair, I've seen photos of Orys with the classic Baratheon features and there is poetic justice in all the Baratheons of the future actually getting their insane genetic traits from her
@@hez859If by 'insane genetic traits' you mean *STRONG* then yes, they got it from her 😂
@@hez859 I think that Orys also had black hair, idk about his eyes, though
Probably there was some Storm Queen before her idk. The Durrandons were there for thousands of years, surely there must have been at some point a King with no sons, no brothers and no nephews who was suceeded by a daughter.
Argella always struck me as analogous to the Rape of the Sabine women. In particular, in Rome weddings featured a fake "kidnapping" of the bride by the groom, a recreation of the myth. And I can't help but notice Orys putting his cloak around Argella would strongly imply that to the listener, in cultural context. Aegon no doubt wanted it saved as propaganda for posterity; "This is who we are."
And it's an interesting myth in that, in the DVD extras, you can hear how both the Targaryens and Baratheons remember it and use it to bolster themselves. Viserys says the Baratheons are owed everything by being uplifted by Aegon, and Robert says of Orys, (approx.) "The truth is he took it because he could", the same thing he says of himself and the Iron Throne.
Of course Robert finds out he does not really want to rule, he'd really rather smash things and nurse his case of lifelong heartbreak.
I saw someone comment that you really should be as big as Alt Shift X, and I absolutely agree!! You really offer a beautiful new perspective on the metatext of the books, that is often overlooked. In this sense, I see you and Shift really not as competitors, but as wonderful additions to one another (for us fans).
To me Argella seems a bit like Stannis. Refusing to give up a legitimate claim even when it seems suicidal. The idea of Angela's followers putting their families' survival over honour seems right on brand for Stormlander lords. That Argella was then open to reason when an opportunity presented itself also seems like Stannis.
I don't see any contradiction in Orys' actions. It's Tywin's idea of helping up someone (Argella) who knelt to you but crushing someone (the Dornish) who refused. Mercy made sense for House Baratheon in one case but vengeance made sense in the other.
I continue to enjoy your videos.
I wonder if from time to time George comes across your videos and is like "finally, someone got it!"
Even when you talk about the most niche ASOIAF characters and subjects I'm so completely immersed, truly one of the best ASOIAF channels out there.
I just want to point that Stormlanders are not as loyal to the end as they like you to believe. During ASOIAF, the entire Stormland chooses to go with Renly and not Joffery or Stannis. As the latter himself points out, men who support him or Joffery could do so out of loyalty and believe that they do what is right- as there are grounds to see either as legitimate. But supporters of Renly are pure opportunists.
I really loved that about Stannis, he understood why men followed Joffrey, even why men followed Robb, Joffrey's lineage is in doubt, but not so much that no men could be convinced, Robb has the idealism of independence, that sways men, but the men who followed Renly knew he was a usurper, he had an older brother and supposed nephews who came before him and tried to crown himself king anyway.
"Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. But these lords who flocked to my brother’s banners knew him for a usurper. They turned their backs on their rightful king for no better reason than dreams of power and glory, and I have marked them for what they are. Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten." -Stannis of the House Baratheon; The One True King of Westeros.
Well I wasn't looking it as loyalty but more of like... not wanting to look like a punk? I feel like they would culturally really look down on any cowardice and would rather fight things out over any other kind of resolution.
@@HillsAliveYT It is one thing to go on noble, meaningful last stand a la Thermophyles. It is absolutely another thing to stand few man against massive army and a flying,.fire breathing monster. Rember that before the first battle nobody saw dragon. After witnessing its power I bet men had different ideas than before.
And for what they should fight? For right of some highborne girl to wear a crown? Why should they die for her? They are common men who care not for who rules them.
Same thing happened to Theon's men. Despite all the words about how much more badass are Ironborne, 50.of them had no desire to die fighting against massive northern army.
@@user-qm7pz7lu2t theons betrayal was different in the show and books.
Another killer video that explores someone rarely looked at in the canon. George writing the story of Argella well after he's put Sansa on her current path does add credence to the concept that there's some link there, and I love pointing out the cyclical nature of Baratheon destruction.
I always thought that Orys did that marriage to have legitimacy over Stormlands and that Argella would have found humiliating to rule over people who betrayed her in such a way . They were afraid to fight dragons but they still followed her father but they did not do the same for her . I did not thought about the perspective that Orys seemed a person who held grudges and could have done that proposal and many other things to punish her because she had the audacity to not accept a wedding below her rank . Now , I even think he may be the one who commanded these people to have her naked to save their lives in order for his scheme to work .
Great video 👏🏼 Love the parallels you drew between Argella and Sansa!
Also, the fact that I read a tweet about how shady the historical account of the circumstances of Argella & Orys's marriage is literally seconds before this popped up on my subscription feed is just 👌🏼👌🏼😂
Babe, wake up. New Hill’s Alive just dropped
As someone who read the books shortly after the first season aired, I'm amazed at how much character development I've forgotten. I now remember the characters as the show portrayed them rather than how the book did. Obviously, certain things (such as inner monologue) had to be cut but I think it was to the point that certain characters were completely remade. Tyrion is one such character as you pointed out regarding his frustration with Sansa. I love how you took what is seemingly a minor footnote during the conquest and brought it forward as obviously relevant. In the end, the Targaryens are nothing without their dragons and their followers, such as Orys Baratheon, are nothing unless they are rewarded by them. I had no idea that Orys lost his hand like Jamie did and that's just one of many patterns repeating themselves! Thanks for the well thought out content
Omg!! Finally, been waiting for another video. So i have only ever heard of Argella from the Aegon's conquest video. The artwork of her looks so beautiful in your thumbnail.
PS: I finally hit 500 subs 😄
Awesome, congrats! LOL and yeah I got sick for like two weeks and finally started getting better enough to speak normally, so I was not feeling the creative writing vibe for a while there.
House Durrandon to House Baratheon "New boss same as the old boss"
Orys Baratheon knew the rules and the Targaryen did not.
Well, done, a beautiful Video as always, thank you. My Opinion about Argella? I agree, that was History written by the Victors and she most likely did what was reasonable instead of continuing a lost Cause.
And I agree most likely Sansa will be the "Queen" that will fight for the North, claim her family's inheritance and be Victor overall. I just ... as long as we don't know what will happen to Rikkon, I am not so sure about her being Queen. Mostly because that would mean she has to Marry again to have Heirs and I am not sure I want that. I mean, Sansa WANTS a Family, a loving Husband, Children and a comforting home, it is all she dreams about and all she ever wanted, not so much the beautiful Prince, Sansa seemed more in Love with the idea of Love than Joffrey, I mean she said she loves him like Naerys loved her Dragonknight, as far as I remember that Story, that wasn't a Love Story with a Happy Ending, especially because Naerys died in Childbirth for another Mens Children, to whom she was married to. So... I am not sure if I want Sansa on a Throne, I mean she will be Queen in all but name because Rikkon is a 5-year-old KID, who would end like Tommen on the Iron Throne. But, I want Sansa to be Happy, as happy as she can be and I am not sure being a ruler brings anyone Happiness in this fictional World.
Bran has a better claim than Rickon because he is the elder. Also Bran unlike Rickon has a means of enforcing his claim through his terrifying warg/greensight powers
Think of all the merry deceptions Bloodraven played while Hand of the King.
Bran will be that turned up to 100. There is a reason he will be King in the books.
It will be even more true if the theory of Bloodraven stealing his body is correct.
@@gerardjagroo And still the North will stay independent, so if Bran becomes King of the 5 Kingdoms (minus Dorne and the North) Rikkon is Brans Successor by law.
I got the impression that the Durrandon's had personal beef with Harren, the Sea versus the Storm kind of conflict.
There is also the darker possibility that things did went has ASoIaF history says, minus Oberyn being gentle to Argella part.
Who's to say they wouldn't tell the same lie for Sansa's and "Arya" cases where they where forced to get married to their enemies?
First time I heard that story I wss reminded of the national history of the Hebrews in the Bible. Taking wives from conquered lands, "marrying them".
I believe Rome did this as well when it was first getting established.
@@ayanna6327 I see. More women means more warriors.
The only way I rescue that part of the Bible is recognizing the constrains of pre-industrial tribes competing for resources. In the event of a complete industrial collapse, how do we uphold our values without endangering our kin? I'm still working it out.
Argillac was called the Arrogant because he tried to defeat a dragon with an army on the ground, after Harrenhal had been destroyed. He fought for his honour, not for his people. After his defeat at the last storm, his daughter had the opportunity to (voluntarily or not) be captured and taken to Orys Baratheon. This was short before the inevitable fall of Storms End, because Meraxes could not have been stopped. Continued fighting would only prolong the suffering of her people, the opposite of what a regent should want.
Her marriage with Aegon’s half-brother ensured the continuation of her house in everything but the name. This was after her father (with or without her consent) refused to marry her with her name to the same men (and tried to annul Aegon’s two marriages). It is not even possible to say that the Durrandons tried to fight or play smart, their honour killed a lot of people to save their face (not their name), without changing the result in their favour.
Argella could have chosen to die (fighting) or not marry Orys, but she wanted to keep her bloodline in power (and most likely to end the suffering). Just because history is written by the victors, doesn't mean the losers were not also somewhat villainous. Your connection of the similarities between Cersei’s and Orys’ takeover of House Durrandon/Baratheon is logically coherent. Yet, I would disagree that Argella gets revenge on Orys by the ending of their shared bloodline and house.
Orys took revenge on someone who cut off his hand in captivity, while he himself treated them with respect. Most likely his tormenter’s son mocked him for his loss and bragged about taking his hand. Revenge should never be on someone’s relatives, but you should also never take responsibility for your parents’ actions. Also, the Dornish did not simply fight to stave off submission, but also to continue the fight and conquer territory from the rest of Westeros. They wanted peace and freedom for them, not for others. Just like the founder of House Martell, Nymeria, wanted freedom of the Rhoynar from Targaryens and everyone else, not the freedom of others from the Rhoynar.
The origins of the house also create a plausible insight into why Rogar Baratheon thought it was possible to take the country by holding regency for Jaehaerys and marrying all of the surviving Targaryens into House Baratheon. The usurpation and stolen culture of the Durrandons was recent memory not some kind of mythical past at that point. Honestly, he probably could have pulled it off if Jaehaerys had been any younger or wasn't strong enough to shut it down.
Good job on the video and all the other videos you ever done. You take a lot of time and effort you're very creative in your thinking. Thanks for doing your part in keeping game of thrones / a song of ice and fire alive.have a good day.
And depending on what George says about Jon house Targaryen is dead to (depending if he is trueborn or bastard) (and if Dany is really barren or not) HOTD has already ended the Targaryen line in the show Leanor is not dead when D&R marry thus making Ageon and Viserys bastards just like their older brothers
Been waiting for your new video, another great one!
Wow, this was such a wonderful and intelligent analysis! More of this please, love your channel! 😮❤
I had the "Bobby B did nothing wrong"-video open in another tab and saw his show appearance next to the picture of Argella, and I have to say there's something of the shape of the eyes and maybe cheekbones that are very similar.
While I think the bones of Argella being betrayed and gift-wrapped for Orys is true, the in-universe IIRC implies a fairly normal married life afterwards for them, which I'm more doubtful of. Consider how reviled bastards are in Westeros, to the point of down-on-their-luck Houses disliking the idea of marrying bastards of top-tier Houses. Consider that Argella wasn't just betrayed (no doubt feeling a lot of fury over being cheated out of her defiance), she was a princess then queen forced to marry the bastard who killed her father. Consider how prideful her father was, and how she may have inherited or been raised to those feelings. No way, no how is she calmly and lovingly performing like a wifely ideal.
Some of this may have changed when her son was born, because through him the line of House Durrandon would continue.
He may have resented Orys Baratheon throughout her life, but I highly doubt she resented her own blood.
@@gerardjagroo IDK about that, lots of moms resent their kids or are largely absent from their lives if they didn't actively want them. I can definitely see Argella pining for the glories of the past rather than caring for the present/future, especially since she kept living in the castle she failed to hold (to take the harsher, more self-critical view on the betrayal).
i don´t know if martin actually think of all of this but is really cool that so distant stories have some type of connection
The Durrandon name itself is interesting.
It evokes Durandal, the mythical sword of Roland in the Medieval French "Song of Roland." The etymology of the name evokes something that is hard ("dur") and unbreakable and that endures (one of the spellings is "Durendal", the ending --endal being reminiscent of the word 'enduring'). Durandal is said to be unbreakable, and to be able to cut through stone.
Roland (and isn't the name redolent of Robert?), the knight who wields it, is a hero for his actions in war, as he defended his country from being invaded by the Britons.
Similarly, House Durrandon resisted invasion and endured beyond Aegon's Conquest, even in an altered way--as you pointed out, House Baratheon takes much more after House Durrandon than after Orys. The moment when the legacy of House Durrandon disappears is the moment when a descendent of Argilac and Argella takes the Iron Throne, the Targaryen symbol of power, and instead of destroying it as a gesture of rebellion and resistance (which he could, as his Durrandon/Durandal legacy enables him to destroy that which no other man can destroy) claims it. That's the moment when the unbreakable sword/family that resisted against invasion finally breaks, because it sides with the invader instead.
By claiming the Throne Robert symbolically claims Orys' legacy as he claims some form of Targaryen identity (through his Targaryen grandmother, an echo of Orys' own parentage, but also through his coming to embody the very system that subdued House Durrandon), and virtually destroys Argella's and Argilac's own legacy of resistance. This acceptance of Targaryen law also comes back to destroy Robert's own legacy, through Cersei who reverses the Baratheon/Durrandon family history and who also, by conceiving an heir in the traditional Targaryen way (sibling incest), participates in Robert's fall. The Baratheons' glory came when, like the Durrandons, they resisted to and overthrew the Targaryens, which is the beyond-the-grave victory of the Durrandon family; it was immediately followed by their fall as Robert failed to reject the Targaryen legacy and instead embraced it in all but name.
House Baratheon dies, because Argella's legacy--the female, unacknowledged legacy--mattered more than Orys' legacy, and Robert failed to understand that and made the choice to become more like the invader he dispossessed.
Omg! Love this and how you worded it!
@@Sari97H Thank you very much! I'm so glad you liked it :)
It's a good day when Hill's Alive posts a new video
So Aegon had a "bend the knee and you get to maintain your lands and castle" policy... but Argella doesn't get this deal; she's just the wife of the new lord, with perhaps only a little power in the arrangement. Its telling that prior to the Conquest, Aegon was pushing for an Orys-Argella match, and that's exactly what happened. Suppose that Argella did surrender, and the Targs installed Orys as Lord of Storm's End just as planned... that would break Aegon's policy, wouldn't it? Other kings and lords would be more reluctant to surrender, if they thoughts the Targs would force marriages that gave power to Targ cronies. Thus the Targs invent the story of Argella's defiance, to justify Orys' usurpation of the Durrandons?
Another great analysis! History repeating itself but this time making things right at the end~
I love your videos!
Keep up the good work 💪 Hills Alive
I adore this channel
That was really interesting !
Arrrgggg those Baratheon super genes are a big pet peeve of mine. Generations of physical appearances matching surnames, always following that stupid patrilinealy inherited surname. True, someone like Rhaenys, who lacks the Baratheon surname and is about 3/4 Valyrian gets the Baratheon black hair, but she seems to be the exception, not the rule. Shouldn't those Baratheon genes have taken over all the Stormlander nobility by now??? How is it that the Conningtons have maintained their red hair for centuries? Are you telling me that the Conningtons and Baratheons/Durrandons never intermarried, or if they did, the kids (or at least the inheriting sons) just-so-happened to inherit the hair color to match their surname every time? This is the case the a bunch of other families in Westeros, though at least with, say, the Starks and Lannisters, A) there's characters with the bloodline and surname who *don't* match the family look; B) there's characters with the bloodline but *not* the family name who do match the family look; and C) they occasionally practiced some cousin-y incest, which helps a little to justify how the family look is preserved - I don't think A or C is true of the Baratheons?
LOL yeah, I mean I know it's a required part of the suspension of disbelief, but the way genes work in TWOIAF in general are VERY convenient for the storylines that GRRM wanted to tell.
I think Argalac(I think that's how his name is spelled, I apologize if I'm wrong.) is called Arrogant because he left the safety of Storm's End, and marched to meet Orys out on the field. But I could be wrong.
Hill's Hive and a Baratheon centric video? Oh I'm eating tonight 🎉
I got my dinner ready and everything
I really liked this insight, thank you.
The 'naked and chained' sounds like a metaphor to me: Argella came to Aegon herself and offered up her land and title (naked) and assented to the marriage (chained) to save her people.
Also, Orys taking the Durandon sigil and words but not the name is kind of the inverse of a medieval practice whereby when lands are entailed to a particular line (to keep it in the family) a man would have to change his surname in order to inherit. It usually happened when the heir was a woman and the man was marrying in.
Extremely intelligent analysis, as i knew it would be from when you asked "why is this the story?" Great eye for symbolism
The inheriter of Storms End should be Edrick Storm, if Stannis and Shireen die. Edrick Storm is the bastard of Bobby B and a daughter of House Florent, making him a Nobel bastard. Edrick grew up at Storm's End, but he is being hidden in Lys to keep Melessandra from burning him for his Kings Blood. My guess is Edrick Storm will somehow get found by fAegon, and fAegon will have him installed at Storms End.
Faegon has literally no incentive to do that. Instead he has every incentive to make the Conningtons of Rook's Rest the Lords Paramount of the Stormlands.
Why would he prefer to make the bastard of the man who overthrew his house and slew his 'father' Lord of the Stormlands over the loyal Jon Connington who helped him regain his throne?!
It makes little sense to me.
Making Connington Lord of Storm's End and Lord Paramount of the Stormlands would also send a very clear message that this is a King who richly rewards his supporters.
This will cause Lords from all over Westeros to flock to his banners.
I think that’s the most likely outcome, too. K
Finally someone talking about the suspicious circumstances around Argella's brief reign. I doubt the chained naked thing even happened. Most likely (and boringly for singers) she was negotiating the terms of surrender and marriage before being escorted out.
I mean Rhaenys was there and considering how she hated the abuse of women I dont think she'd have let those traitors live if it did happen. Its been three centuries so no doubt it got embellished to high heaven.
Ooh you should do a video about Queen Shara and Princess Meria I love these deep dives
I love me some Dornish girlies!
@@HillsAliveYT Love your Vids!! Keep it up!!!
The way the Targaryens managed their conquest again has real world historical parallels in my opinion, particularly to the colonisation (in lack of a better word) of the Near East where European and American imperialists tried to make a minority the ruling class (like making sunnits the ruling class in a predominantly shiite country). This made their power depend more on the imperialist, which made them loyal to the imperialist. Like we can assume that Orys was more loyal to the Targaryens than if he had had a substantial claim to something as well. All his power depended on the grace of the Targaryen king.
hi Hill’s alive! Thank you for another amazing analysis. it’s crazy to think of how detailed and nuanced GRRM’s universe is, that Angela Durrandon - a figure that existed many many years ago (she is almost a legend, a figure from westerosi fairy tales and songs) can add so much symbolism and irony to the story. GRRM really likes to put A LOT of hidden meaning in the corners, that many of us don’t usually look at.
Speaking of hidden meaning. I would like to know your opinion on relationships between Jacaerys Velaryon, Cregan Stark and Sara Snow. Many fans believe that Sara Snow was made up (by Mushroom himself or northerners maybe) to hide what was actually happening between Cregan and Jace. Of course, we don’t have enough information to state whether they were in love or really.. just two bros.. hanging out… 5 meters apart.. But I personally find the idea of Sara Snow being a fictional figure created out of homophobia very fascinating.
It reminds me of the “historians state they were just friends” phenomenon a lot!
So to be clear, how likely is it for Westerosi society to create a fictional figure to hide a love relationship that might be shared between two men? Or let’s say a homosexual relationship in general?
I just finished reading the first book, and i loved it. Working on making my review video on it O:
About to start a clash of kings soon too!
I've always really liked Argella and her part of the conquest story, and was happy to see it a second time in *Fire & Blood*. This analysis of her was amazing! 😮 Absolutely love the idea of Sansa becoming Argella as she should have been.
Hills alive in an argument: I just find it interesting that... 😂
just to continue the hidden importance of women to this conflict- robert baratheon's blood claim to the throne comes from his targaryen *grandmother*
The Durrandon super-genes strike again mwhahaha!!!
I love Argella. No matter what happened to her, she was a strong woman who deserves to be remembered by everyone as the Last Storm Queen
When you fought the Gods and won, super-genes is a good explanation.
Can't wait to watch the whole thing. King Daemon Blackfyre the 1st or Blackfyres as a whole video when please?
LOL uhh Blackfyre video when I'm feeling Blackfyre vibes I guess? I almost never plan on a video until I actually start writing it, and random ideas appeal at random times.
@@HillsAliveYThow do you think
She would feel
With Robert raising Cersei bastards you took the dragons throne but allowed yourself to be cucked
@HillsAliveYT I will eagerly wait for the vibe thank you for even con it.
I think Orys story shows the major difference between the Baratheons and Targaryens that Orys can honor and make his enemies his friends similar to Robert vs the Targaryens self righteous arrogance
Epic video.
I just realized Durrandon - Durendal- Durandante
Argella in the thumbnail looking like Jennifer Connelly. If I was Aegon the Conqueror, I would have got a couple divorces.
Maybe Aegon was deliberately insulting Argilac when he offered Orys. After all, Aegon might've been many things, but stupid wasn't one of them. He must've known at least to a certain extent how Westeros viewed bastards and that Argilac would've seen the offer as a slight and surely, he must've had at least a few Velaryon cousins he could've offered instead.
"Ours is the Fury" makes sense now - the fury of the angry sea, not the stag.
I wonder if Orys was more ok to let Argella take the helm of leading the Stormlands? Maybe that was the compromise.
Baratheon is just Durrandon part 2, you can tell as much when every single Baratheon looks and acts like their Durrandon ancestors. The Durrandon seed is STRONG.
Hill's Alive does it again, breaking down myths, fables and propaganda into more realistic Westerosi history.
i disagree with this reading it steals argella's agency. like let's reconstruct the events. so argella being delievered naked to orys sounds like bs, her most loyal guard those willing to charge a dragon for her house doing this betreyal sounds not that plaussible
2 her story reminds me of cleopatra's and caesar's first meeting, three argella basically in all but name got to keep her castle, and not be burnt alive. like storm's ends guard, and storm's ends bannermen are loyal to her , not orys.
orys got basically a reward for fighting for aegon.
Aegon , and Rhaenys got a kingdom that's stable, and to reward one of their men, like they did with harrenhal ,and Quoherys.
so let's reconstruct what happened and the propaganda here in work, so Argillac dies, and argella closes her gates, probably decides her cause is dead, and that even as lady of storm's end she would need a husband to help her rule, so she came with a scheme to be brought to the men who besieged her castle, to effectively make peace with them that basically meant she could remain if not in name ruling her castle , and wouldn't be f'd over the way harren the black was.
Love this take! Mostly because it's finally addressing the take over by Orys Barantheon and how much this narrative (an Argilac the Arrogant instead of an Argilac the Proud, for example) is very much a pro-Targaryen one. It makes sense, politically speaking, that Orys takes the name, words, seat and genetics of the Durrandons; there's nothing he can give and so he needs to take a legacy. I can believe that he was gentle, but even while doing that Orys was usurping a house. It's interesting to see the paralels with the current story and I love how the Barantheon characteristics are Durrandon. Thank you for this video!
12:00 not quite. The way cerseu is going about it isn't as overt as orys nor was facilitated by similar circumstances.
Cersie is of course going mad.
4:49
Interesting.
I do wonder why Orys even changed the name of the house as theri does seem to be precedent for keeping the womens name if her house was greater (I think in house Lannister something like this happened)
I have a half formed theory that the Baratheon surname is somehow designed to legitimize a claim on the Stormlands. If split into Bar-Atheon it would mean "son of the ungodly", and if the Storm kings claimed descent from Duran Godsgrief, it could be said that the name Baratheon is also claiming that descent. I dont think it necessarily plays out in the story or anything, its just the result of me puzzling over where the name Baratheon comes from in the first place.
What about house B pact with the deep ones
So where did the name Baratheon come from? Orys may have been a Bastard but that is no bastard name. He had that name before he took Storms End. Who were his parents?
Well they usurped the Targaryens and where all killed out themselves. I mean they can try to legitimate Gendry or Edric how much they want but the fact is all trueborn Baratheon’s are dead.
Now I really wanna see Sansa be queen
Would have been great if Bobby B had a legitimate daughter named Argella and a legitimate son named Argilac as an extra fuck you to the targs
What wrong was done to her she was conquered she was lucky in my opinion
Did the Storm's End garrison betray Argella...
OK so when fighting a military campaign, usually a lord takes his best fighters with him, leaving green boys and greybeards to hold the fort. I'm assuming Argilac did this. Its not clear how much of Argilac's army survived the Last Storm; it says a bunch of them fled... not sure if they made it back to Storm's End... even if they did, Argella might also have refused them entry for being cravens. All this to say that the people who fought bravely for House Durrandon in the Last Storm and the people who backstabbed House Durrandon and surrendered Storm's End might literally not have been the same people - or if they were, it was only the craven ones who were involved in both events. While greybeards in ASOIAF have a reputation for an I'm-gonna-die-soon-anyways-so-lets-go-down-fighting attitude (with notable exceptions), green boys often talk a big game, but panic and falter when confronted with the horrors of war (I guess that description could apply to Argella herself, too. hmm...) Also, right before the Last Storm, Aegon roasts Harrenhal. So its gotta be passing through the garrison's head that Harren proved you can't beat a dragon while penned down in a castle, so trying to withstand a siege has gotta be folly...
On the flip side, though, there'd clearly a false narrative that's being pushed in this moment that's absurdly pro-Aegon, pro-Baratheon, anti-Durrandon and anti-woman. Does this extend to a completely false narrative about the end of the Storm Queen's reign? Yeah, it could... there's a lot of ambiguity there... I could see a few different ways the surrender of Storm's End could play out, a few different ways that narrative from F&B could be spun...
Maybe she wanted to surrender but thought it would be too much dishonor for her, so she faked her betrayal so that no one saw her as surrendering. The problem with this is that what officially happened to her seems worse than just surrendering... But who knows, we are talking about Durandon pride at this point, it doesn't have to make sense
@@igorlopes7589 In your scenario, perhaps she wasn't stripped and chained - perhaps that's just a rumor spread later? Orys wanted to justify replacing the Storm's End garrison with his own men, so invented that story? The big manly lords of the Stormlands insist that their team would never surrender, so they invented that story about pure Durrandon defiance, betrayal and that the fatal flaw of the Durrandons was basically being a woman? Maybe later in life, Argella tried to do a coup against her husband, so Orys started that tale to discredit her, the same way Cersei's walk of atonement stripped her of power and respect? Or the Targaryens wanted to make everything into a lesson about not crossing them, and people were remembering Argella's defiance more than her surrender, so they added in the betrayal and humiliation to make the story fit their narrative? Idk - there are possibilities?
She wasn’t usurped this video is nonsense stormlands was conquered she was lucky she not that important her own people betrayed her
Hold on.. no. I realize it's asoif and this kind of stuff is not unheard of but I think your theory doesn't really hold water. First of all. Orys didn't have to marry Argela. He certainly didn't have to treat her chivalrously. He didn't have to take her last name and sigil. All that was politically intelligent and shows that he was very clever but there is no reason to assume he wasn't good to her. After all targaryens were traditionally very progressive in how they treat women. and stormlanders have shown in multiple instances that they are misogynistic. Don't forget a big theme here is history repeating itself. This sets up a pattern where in the dance of dragons would side against rhaenyra specifically because she was a woman and they would not accept a queen as a ruler. Unless this custom was specifically introduced by orys, which doesn't seem likely given that he's a Targaryen and the targaryens of typically been shown to have a positive outlook towards women namely because women can be dragon riders just like men can they're used to women ruling where is the westerosi are not. As for his brutal revenge against wyl of wyl. That man captured him and tortured him for years.. not to mention the horrible things he did to the Lord of fawntonband lady Oakheart (who were both stormland banners and may well have been his friends or even family. I mean wyl of wyl is a stormlander boogeyman he's one of the reasons they hate the dornish so much it makes sense that orys would want to make an example of him. While yes it is possible orys was a an underhanded Usurper, and the tails are no doubt embellished look at the bloodline that descended from him and Argela you have characters like jocelyn and rhaenys, he's strong-willed independent girl bosses. They don't seem like the revenants of a bloodline tainted by rape and misogyny. I'm just saying don't imagine more horror into the story then George actually wrote by all accounts Oris was it good man who set a precedent of love and compromise overcoming adversity. He conquered the unconquerable not by force but by compassion respect and shrood political maneuvering. If anything he's an example of how targaryens use bastards to infiltrate the culture of westeros
This video nonsense