Bessey edge clamp vs. F-clamp and wedge hack
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2023
- I bought one of those expensive Bessey edge clamps. A very solidly built clamp, but just as awkward to use as my f-clamp and wedge type hack.
But in a pull off test in my strength testing machine, it held on impressively well. - Jak na to + styl
I've been doing doing woodwork for decades. Stupidly I never knew about the F-clamp with a wedge idea, Thanks for the great tip
Yes, we had few of those exact ones and a few smaller ones at my previous job, but rarely used them. But when we did use them, these were extremely useful. You could even add a thick strip of wood in between to even out the pressure to the whole edge.
Yes we do that too. When edging a diameter we have curved packing blocks CNC'd at all diameters as a packer.
Love this - thank you so much for posting this test. I've never seen the F-clamp + wedge solution for edge clamping. Every day is a learning day! Thank you 🙂
I’m so glad that you and Marius Hornberger know each other. Over the years, you’ve both mentioned each other. I can tell there’s a lot of respect there.
We use them were I work for edge clamping hardwood onto Formica, linoleum, marble and veneered table tops. We have about 50 clamps. Some days depending on what's coming through you can use all 50 in the morning and then repeat. Yes you need to manage the cam by hand sometimes over the edge of a 50mm edging. Same to release them. It gets your fingers if your not used to them. They are not perfect on all surfaces as sometimes just keep slipping. We have had the same ones for around 20 years. The rubbers are worn on a lot of them. The springs and the pins are first thing to fail.
We would be lost without them. Chucked on and off benches and the floor the frames have never failed. We also use them individually to close up 2mm pvc 2mm veneer edging at the join on a circular table.
Thank you, our beloved Matthias "Clamp master" Wandel, for yet another interesting and brilliant video.
Glad to see someone finally made the pinching version of rock climbing cams. I've always dreamed of these.
I feel like ambidextrous thumb triggers near the handle that opens the cams would make this amazing.
Matthias and Marius co-creating content? Am I awake? I feel like I did when 'a pair of Matthiases' tested the wooden winch...
Cant wait.
Bessey is generally way too expensive unless you use it professionally. For a hobbyist the quality is so good it can last for generations however.
Just repainted my granddads Bessey. They were so expensive he only had one and he was a framer!
Old stuff yup new stuff nope
Bessey isn’t really that good anyway. Jorgensen are much better.
My chanel is ❤😢😅😎🥰🤭😘🤫😎
@@larry78cj7at least in the small F clamps, I would agree with you, and I would also say the newer rubber handled Jorgensen F clamps are easier to use and get more force out of than my older wooden handled clamps of the same size.
The cleats are excellent. I used them more than 30 years ago in the factory, and the owner of the factory had imported them from Italy along with the rest of the wonderful equipment. We used them to install wooden scraps on dining tables and others.
A joy to watch your videos.
Your workshop makes a great backdrop in the videos as well.
Always inspiring and I admire your imagination to keep coming up with great designs and ideas.
Well done.
One Handed Maker - Australia
I always get confused by phrases like "ten times less than". I know (at least I think I know!) that it's equivalent to "one tenth of", but my brain finds the latter _much_ easier to parse than the former.
I love both your and Marius' stuff. I'm very pleased to watch a collaboration of you two
Pretty interesting clamps indeed, Matthias! Thanks for testing! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
As always, very interesting. Thanks, Matthias.
Those edge clamps are hecka chonky too!!
Glad to hear you’re doing content with Marius.
Cool video. Very informative and easy to watch and listen. Good work.
Love Marius. I think I heard you're both collaborating for the test. Can't wait to see it!
Love the bar clamp with wedge tip! Math correction: Lee Valley shows the Bessy @ $123.45. Harbor Freight 6 in bar clamp $3.49 - Bessy is 35x more expensive!
$123.45? That's the price some idiot would try to sell his luggage
Thank You
I occasionally need to do edge clamping, the bar clamp trick should work. I don’t recall seen this before, I’ve been woodworking for 50+ years
Interesting! Looking forward to see what you and Marius get up to together, should be good fun.
the video is so nice and detailed 😊
Good video. Thank you for the information.
Those are very unique clamps, I didn't even know they existed! There are really specialized tool for anything... hehe
I use a method similar to you with F clamps, never had a problem, I also have some of those 3-way C clamps that I think I have used once or twice in 10 years. For edge glueing wood aminate I just use blue painter's tape and let the glue suck it in, works fine.
Awesome video
So I use these professionally and they work better than anything else for me.
They slide on with no effort even on 24mm boards.
If I have large edges to glue on(only have 12 of those) I combine them with my gluing press. Works beautifully
Looking at the gap at 3:15 compared to before the test, I would say that the yoke yielded under load.
I have two of those Bessey edge clamps. I didn't buy them though. My uncle found them in the trash of a workshop being closed down. Having used them a few times (with the exact annoyances you describe), I can say, yes they are handy, but in no way worth the money (if I had bought them). The F-clamps you can get for that money are way more useful.
the coefficient of friction of the rubber does tend to decrease at higher pressures. As I understand it, the rubber sort of oozes onto the rough surface of the other material, providing grip in addition to the regular friction that increases with normal force. So as the pressure increases, that extra grip matters less and less.
These are like Cams used in climbing. But the ones used in climbing have a cable pull trigger to collapse the cams from the handle end. I am surprised whoever designed these did not do the same.
Seems like when they are the tool you need they really work, which did surprise me a little as I always thought the cams would bend the frame when the clamping forces needed to be more than electrical/masking tape tight... Though having now got a better view of them in this video I can see why they work so well and cost so much, they are very solid...
I guess these make the most sense for professionals who routinely need it, the same way I use expensive stuff where I work. It's nice to have something you can buy and use intensively for years!
I'm just a hobbyist woodworker, and tape is good enough for my edge glue clamping, ie. solid wood edge banding.
Collab with Marius!? About time, can't wait
I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your collaboration with Marius! 🙂
As always, if you are doing a particular task a lot buy the flash kit. Otherwise, just make do. Although I'm very familiar with the cramp and wedge hack, the springy scrap and block variation is new and looks very quick.
I recently noticed that both Bessey and Rockler sell a clamp-on third screw for f-clamps for edge clamping. For the same price, the rockler ones have nicer rubberized knobs. I see the AT Restoration channel use these occasionally and was wondering where to find them outside of Estonia … so now I know.
Thanks for the heads up. Those Rockler ones look like a good solution.
I have some of the Bessey extra screws as well. Work OK, can apply a lot of pressure.
😊
It appears that you did manage to deform the clamp casting as the cams were further apart at the end of the video than at the start
I never seen some one using these clamps because in stead of buying them for alot of money we used packing tape it works just as good and is cheaper
been following your channel for quite a few years now and as a young trainee chippy your info has literally saved me more times then i care to count. so mad love you and the whole family \o/
that said, idea unless you have already made a video of it could you cover different ways of clamping|viceing a work peace(minimal marks)when a clamp isent available jigs and work arounds.
thankyou again so much for all your hardwork !
Just put a block of wood between the clamp and the workpiece
Hard to tell from the video, but is the frame now ‘sprung’? The cams appear slightly closer together in the images before you test compared to post-test. Nonetheless, a well done test and I’m glad for the information you provided.
Nice video.
I think i saw you do the F clamp trick, because that's what i do. No need for expensive stuff. The only difference is i use those wedges for doors. I bought a whole bag of them for 10 dollars from fleabay many years ago and it's worked great with that, especially since with wedges, you center the load. I found the Bessey (or similar, because there's other types) to not be as good.
I’d be curious to see that load the F clamp would withstand with the rubber pads removed.
Hey Matthias, what practical tips have you got for parenting?
Raising children is much easier with some sort of mechanical hoist
@@matthiaswandel Sir Matthias, I often ask myself, Why buy a trampoline when a lever and CMU can send children to the stars?
Aside from the humor, great video.
I've found an inclined plane works well.
Rockler bandy clamps are the fastest to use for edge banding. You do need a lot of them though.
I have 48 (I counted) Bessey clamps of various sizes, and a few cheaper clamps. Where I find the most value in the Besseys is the screw. For me the worm thread screw adds a tremendous increase in usability and value over the machine thread on cheaper threads.
That beefy Acme thread sure does let you apply some force. Much better than the finer threaded clamps.
Fine pitch threads give you a lot more leverage over course threads. Twice the threads gives twice the force.
Fine pitch acme thread is ideal.
not sure you fully understand the conccept@@sidgar1
On many F-Clamps, the limiting factor is the bar getting deformed or the handle on the screw spinning free after clamping hard a few times. On expensive or cheaper ones. The threads are quite frankly never the limiting factor.
Also, how many of these edge clamps would you need to work reasonably and do you really need that much clamping force for edge banding, or would some masking tape suffice?
I've found painters tape to be sufficient for most edge clamping situations. Obviously not as much clamping pressure as a proper clamp though, or the wedge hack.
you're saying at high forces the coefficient of friction changes (at high forces it slides off the workpiece) but it seems like you actually had evidence that at those high pressures it deformed the material being clamped. Maybe try with metal?
It's hard to tell for sure from the video, but is the gap between the cams when they are "at rest" bigger after the pull test than it was at the beginning? It looks like it might be from the few frames we're able to see of it.
I have the other Blessy edge clamp, which l think we’re less expensive than the cam ones, work well enough, l needed them for a job and they were added to the job🎯🤣❤️
Would you be able to design an efficient track saw guide rail and sled to use with an ordinary circular saw? Although there are a number of videos on how to build them I think you would be able to engineer a better one.
Bessey is a manufacturer which produces high quality clamps. And they are very open minded. If you need a special clamp, write them... perfect for industry.
Wonder if these could be used as a low profile, high force face clamp? I understand it's intended use is to apply side force, but I bet those cams apply a huge squeezing force on the part. Now for the application where this would be useful? I have no clue.
I find a rubber band slipped over a spring clamp works just fine for straight edge clamping to cover plywood edge with a 1/8" strip but what do I know?
Thats a piece of climbing gear turned inside out with a soft skin.
Nothing beats BESSEY clamps...
I love watching your test comparisons! Is there any chance you could compare threaded inserts vs wooden taps? I have a project coming up and I’ve heard wooden taps were strong than inserts. And I’d love to see your test prove it right or wrong
suman did a pretty thorough comparison of wood taps vs threaded inserts and came to the conclusion that wood taps were better. that said, I'm sure matthias could take it to another level
Wooden taps ? always interested to learn !
@@CrimeVid I think he means threaded inserts vs wooden threads.
It depends on how often you want to undo the joint. If it's one and done I wouldn't bother with inserts but if I'm constantly unscrewing it and putting it back together I would get inserts.
Edit: Of course it also depends on the type of wood. I mostly build with MDF so you can forget threading the wood directly. I'm sure it's different for hardwood.
In weaker materials such as wood and fiberglass and aluminum, the length of engagement of the threads matters quite a bit. If you are screwing into a thick piece, threads hold pretty well. If you are screwing into a thin piece, a threaded insert would be wise. As an example, threaded high-strength fiberglass (G10 or FR4) will hold against the full bolt strength if the threaded piece is 1.5x bolt diameter. The ratio of bolt diameter to thickness of threaded piece seems to be the controlling ratio. If your threaded piece is 1.5x or 2x you have a good chance of strong holding.
Wondering what kind of climbing cam that was
"I have too many clamps" Said no woodworker, ever!
How soon until we see your superior home made wooden version?
thankfully they have a great return policy
what do you need to clamp edge banding so hard for anyway
Perfect for edge cases…
What are the most common use cases? I would imagine that when you edge-clamp, you most often edge-clamp along the whole edge, so you would need many clamps, i.e. a cheaper solution than that.
Exactly. So you need lots. Gets expensive fast
I noticed your wedges were just blocks. Would actual wedges work better?
I've had surprisingly poor experiences with Bessey clamps. My budget sash clamps have proven to be much more useful than the Bessey parallel clamps I've got so I'd echo that sometimes the cheaper option might be a better one.
Not just sometimes, quite often if not the majority of times.
never tried the parallel clamps. They seek kind of clunky, but more importantly, they are out of my price class.
Talking about clamps, have you ever tired using / making "cam" clamps?
Abandonando seu canal porque você não disponibiliza as legendas...
Was there a bit of plastic deformation on the clamps? Looked like the spacing of the cams was bigger after the test.
Hadn't noticed that, but reviewing the video, indeed! I should repeat my test to see if it bends further.
@@matthiaswandel good luck breaking it completely! ;)
New clamp…and a new camera? Or different camera settings and or compression settings?
shot this one at 60 fps to work better wit hthe 50 fps that marius shoots, as he may reuse some of the clips.
Your edge clamping hack works better with folding wedges, A bow clamp and a few wedges at the ends works too
It could just be me, but it looks like the frame did plastically deform after your test. I’d have to say it doesn’t reduce the functionality of the clamp but it certainly introduced some fatigue into the system. Again, it tough to tell in the video but it looks like the cams are farther apart after the test
yes, someone else pointed that out too. That suggests perhaps it is close to failure. So maybe I'll do the pull-off test a few more times.
Can you change the handle to something like a t shape to turn bessey into plywood gripper to carry stuff or pull middle sheets from stockpiles?
Could be done. But you can't just push it on the edge of a piece of plywood unless its really thin plywood, so not that useful. The plywood gripepr thingies tend to clamp as a function of pull on the handle, and release when no lnoger pulling the handle.
It would've been useful if you put the link to Marius' video in the desc.
can’t link to a video that doesn’t exist yet. would have been useful to pay attention.
@@matthiaswandel Ah sorry about that, I misunderstood.
What have you got against Marius anyway?
The frame did actually bend, you'll see upon the replay
Why not make an attachment that slides onto the bar clamp that does what an edge clamp does?
With the bar clamp attachment, you can make it 6 to 12 inches long and have two threaded rods that push against the edge.
And rather than a metal pressure foot, you can have a wooden foot so it is less likely to mare the surface.
yoe mean a diy version of the bessey kt5-2?
@@ensen89
Yeah, that's exactly what I had in mind.
First I've heard of them.
How much?
Any chance of you making your own edge clamps and comparing them to the Bessey's?
Very unlikely.
Why there's no auto subtitles on your videos? Thanks.
Please complain to youtube. I don't know why.
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Matthias, please make a drawing like Dewalt DW733, it would be more great project for us who are your followers.
10 times is a problem for me but pulling back the cams isn't a big deal
Could you add a link to Marius' design please?
will do when his video is ready
Since you have this really nice failure testing contraption err... apparatus , would you be interested in testing the strength of various types of wood under load in all three directions against or with the grain? It would also be interesting to test whether the hole shape matters in a joint e.g. whether the square hole in a mortise and tenon joint is inferior to the losenge shape hole in a domino joint or the round hole in a dowel joint. Just to be clear: I am not suggesting another joinery strength test, rather the mode of the stress would be dictated by a type of wood joint. In all cases, to ensure that a joint is not tested but the wood itself, the pressure on the test specimen would have to be exerted by a metal peg of appropriate shape.
perhaps watch my video on testing wood strength?
Hey Mattias, maybe you would be interested in testing this: for some time now I have been wondering, how does dust in holes affects dowels. I understand if there is so much dust, that the dowel doesn't fit, but usually the hole is a few mm longer than the dowel. So I am wondering isn't the dust mixed with woodglue a good thing or not? Thanks.
@@matthiaswandel if you mean this one
czcams.com/video/MBfzDEgfA0I/video.html
I already have.
In that video you have tested wood specimens where the force is applied only against the wood grain. I am suggesting two more tests:
a) one with the grain i.e. the pulling force would be exerted in the same direction as the wood grain e.g. by making a square mortise (say of 8mm thickness by 3cm width), at a predefined distance from the specimen edge, say 1cm, inserting a square iron bar of same thickness in the mortise and pushing in the direction of the grain, outwards towards the edge which lies 1cm away and
b) one against the grain where the same procedure as above would be used but this time the bar would be pushed laterally against the grain and outwards in the direction of the mortise face that is 3cm wide. This second test is similar to the test you have made but different in that it tests the strength of cohesion between the wood fibres rather than the resistance to breakage of a bundle of wood fibres.
@@Stelios.Posantzis engineering tests on wood have been done in the past. It might make an interesting video. But the conclusion based on previous test results is that most woods do not have high or predictable strength in sheer along the grain lines. Some tropical hardwoods might be exceptions to this rule. Keep the wood fibers in tension or compression. Don't ask them to resist shearing against each other.
@@mckenziekeith7434 By unpredictable strength do you mean large variation, e.g. 100% or 200% or do you mean uncorrelated to the wood strength against bending forces (as tested in the other video)?
Shearing forces exist in any mechanical dry wood joint as well as in wood fixed with fasteners.
I don't really like the screw handle on the Bessey. Prefer a knob style.
I know product pricing varies, however it is annoying when reviews/comparison don't simply give an average price at the time with a simple proviso. Its not private information, and not going to vary that much but it sure would help everyone watching to know right off if something is near their preferred range or just out of the picture.
it varies by time and location. My price is not your price. If you want to know what it would cost you, don't look to me.
Seems strange that Bessey put the point of pivot in that position - the issue with thicker pieces could just be solved by moving that point
And surely they could have hidden the stop so that it does not bite your skin
The cams dont slip. Like you can so obviously see that the cams dont slip. The clamp bends and the cams push out and rotate. The coefficient of friction is fine.
The frame is the limiting factor. You can see it bend in the video. It obviously deflects significantly. How did you miss that.
Please watch the video carefully
You can never have enough clamps. However, you can have enough of these clamps ;)
Activa el traductor
It would be cool to see you build DIY speakers, would combine a lot of your interests
I do prefer the rockler edge clamps
you mean those rubber band thingys?
@@matthiaswandelyes bandy clamps they come in a few different sizes
Jed Clampit
Your sound seems to be cutting out on this video.
If you have the interest to test more, I wonder how much force the Bessey clamp loses when the tool and workpiece are dusty...